Вступление на срединный путь (текущий курс, Аризона), занятие 25

[Speaker 1]
So if you can find a way to embarrass the shyest person in the class, you should always try. So you have to visualize this starburst thing, candy, as a huge birthday cake. And then our dear dance teacher is having a birthday.

So are you ready? One, two, three. Happy birthday to you.

Happy birthday to you.

[Speaker 2]
Happy birthday dear Asako.

[Speaker 1]
Happy birthday to you. She has to blow out the candles. There's like 16 candles on there.

Okay, so it just doesn't fill me as well as the other cakes do. So there was an argument from the auto-commentary that was based on the... on what was the wording of it?

What's the only clue we got? There was a quotation from the auto-commentary and two guys tried to come and explain it. Kācik.

Okay, somebody said... By the way, that kācik is just some people and it doesn't mean some people say it. It means some people get enlightened after they hear...

they get to their own enlightenment after they hear dependent origination. Some don't, right? Then one guy came along and said that...

The point is that one guy said, Master Chandrakirti is trying to defend himself against an argument where somebody talked about listeners and self-made Buddhists not getting to their enlightenment, right? Which is this argument here. Then another guy came and made a different argument.

No, he's just trying to give a response to people who said, well, some listeners and self-made Buddhists don't get enlightened just after they hear dependent origination and they don't get enlightened there later either. Maybe in that same life, I assume, right? Okay, so two guys have attempted to explain a totally unexplainable quotation from the auto-commentary.

Just put it that way, okay? Now we get our version. You ready?

One, two, three. mi-the-deh dir-rang-gyal tub-wang-le tum-pa-la dok-pa-che-we de-la mik-phuk-pe tsu-len-ze Okay. What's mi-the-deh?

Do you know? Mi-the. Yeah, but that's not correct because...

Okay, the deh is correct because... rang-gyal? Self-made Buddhists.

Tub-wang. Lord of the Able Ones. Muneshvara.

Ishvara of the Munas. So, Muneshvara. That's important in a few minutes.

So, get that one in your head. Muneshvara. Tum-pa?

Tum-kar du-chen? The big time of the Tum star. It's a Dalai Lama's birthday.

In Tibet, you call it tum-kar du-chen. The big time, which means a holiday, of the birth star. Tum-kar du-chen.

Say tum-kar du-chen. So, when is tum-kar du-chen? July 6th.

Okay. It's also George Bush's birthday. Oh, Manny from the Terracotta pointed that out to me yesterday.

What's this last... There's a word here, tse-pa. What's...

That's tse-pa. Tse-pa. Debate.

I mean, you better know what debate is, right? Tse-pa. How do you say he's debating?

Tse-pa tse-gu-du. Say tse-pa tse-gu-du. He's tse-pa-ing a tse-pa.

Okay, ready? Tse-pa tse-gu-du. And ki-du is he is, you see.

And you can use it forever. They are, he is, she is, it is, it are, it was. I mean, it's like, you know.

Okay, say it one more time. Tse-pa tse-gu-du. What's he up to tonight?

Say. Tse-pa tse-gu-du. He's debating.

Okay. And it literally means arguing. Okay.

So, say, you know, what's that, what's that noise from the house next door? Oh, Kanye tse-pa tse-gu-du. The man and his wife are tse-pa tse-gu-du.

Okay. That's a different debate. Okay.

Okay, but that's incorrect. My Microsoft Word won't do any other font but Times Roman and only in 12 points. I think I revert into my old one.

I mean, can I, can you get me a cheap new one or something? Or if that's better than, you help me, okay? We'll figure it out.

Let's see if it still, if it doesn't. Yeah, it just automatically goes to 12 point Roman.

[Speaker 2]
No matter what, you can just change your font.

[Speaker 1]
Well, that's because, that's the default.

[Speaker 2]
No, but even when you change the default, it goes right back to Times New Roman.

[Speaker 1]
And then Translating. It's this amazing thing. I think Microsoft built it in after a year.

Oh, I better update. Okay. Well, I'll blow it up after I type it, okay?

But that's incorrect. Because, this works though. There you go.

Hang on one sec. Sorry?

[Speaker 2]
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
That's why dictionaries are to be approached with caution. That should be a rule, okay? Alistair, that should be a rule.

I mean, really. Yeah, Phukpa does mean cave. Tra Phuk means a cave.

And then Phukki Samlo means ultimate thought, or far, far, let me call it, like, our Phukki Charshi at Diamond Mountain is to get people to see emptiness directly. Our Chalki Charshi, our immediate goals are to build the temple. So Phuk means long-term.

Usually Phuk means long-term. Here it means like, I translate it here as like the real, his, what did I have to say? I didn't translate it here, did I?

Target, I said target. Mik Phuk means to hit the mikpa. Mikpa Phukpa.

Like, our mikphuk for the Diamond Mountain is to get people to see emptiness directly. You know, the target. Far, far, I don't know.

Long-term target, long-term target. Now here long-term doesn't make so much sense. It just means his target is to address the question that would come up in most people's minds.

There's no reason for him to be addressing a question of why don't listeners aren't born from Buddhas. That's not the point. The point is that a person who's intelligent would be thinking, well, self-made Buddha, that means they don't have a teacher in this life, and so how could they be born from the Buddhas when the Buddhas teach them dependent origination in this life, you know?

It doesn't make sense. You see, a real thinker should balk at the idea. So he must be addressing those guys, not just somebody who comes along and says, oh, I think it means that, or I think it refers to listeners and self-made Buddhas.

That doesn't make any sense. That question doesn't come up. Nobody's wondering why you say listeners aren't born from Buddhas, right?

A few people who understand what self-made Buddha means are wondering why you said self-made Buddhas aren't born from Buddhas, because they don't have any teacher in this current life, you see what I mean? So that obscure answer from the auto-commentary must be talking about self-made Buddhas and not something else that you two guys thought it was. Okay, that's all.

That's the most obscure thing we have in the first hundred pages.

[Speaker 2]
Maybe before you go on, there's a number of disagreements in that a self-made Buddha can take their, you might say self-made Buddhas, or take his, or not?

[Speaker 1]
I use their to get out of the gender his-her, his or her. I just find his or her breaks the flow of things. So I use their.

Doubleday asked me that too, and I told him the same thing. Okay. Seriously.

Maybe it'll catch on, maybe it won't. Okay. Good luck hypertexting it.

Okay. Sorry? Say again?

No. Yeah, I don't know. You can say it that way.

I kind of prefer the old British... No, sorry. Okay, we forgot to read this.

One, two, three. Okay. Just for those of you who's Tibetan, it's pretty good.

So tsö len means what? Lend to a tsampa. Yeah, response to.

You know, a response in an argument. We just said his response. Because it would get cloying if you said debatical response.

You know what I mean? We know it's a debate going on. If you say response in English, it means there's some exchange going on.

But you should learn kap dun min drub. Those of you who are trying to really get good at Tibetan. Kap dun min drub.

Kap means... Do you know kap? Kap means occasion or circumstance or point or...

Okay. Kap dun means the point on this occasion. And kap dun min drub means there wouldn't be any point being made that was relevant to this occasion.

In this context, it would be irrelevant. Kap dun min drub, therefore, you can just translate as it would simply be irrelevant here. There's no reason for him to be giving a debate in a response to the idea that listeners and self-made Buddhas can't be born from Buddhas because no one would ever make that question.

He can't be giving a... It'd be irrelevant to give that answer because no one would give that original assertion, you see, that he'd have to answer. Okay?

So it's just... There's no point, okay, like that. All right?

All right. I think he's killed that one pretty well. Beaten it to death, you say?

Kap dun min drub. Well, sometimes they do. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. You know, thanks. Thanks, Subhuti.

Thanks, Subhuti. Why did he bring up these two, like... They're not very good arguments.

I mean, they're not very... Why would Jetsun Kapa... Not only just one.

He brought up two different sort of weak arguments about a wording in the root text in the auto-commentary. Why would he... Why would he spend the time?

Or why would Kedrup Dhammadhargi spend the time? Somebody brought up... And there's a protocol among the galupas especially.

You don't mention people by name. You say... You don't say that Sakya so-and-so brought up this ridiculous point, you know, that...

that Master Chandrakirti's talking to this issue. You see what I mean? You don't do that.

You say... You know somebody might come up and say such-and-such, but of course that wouldn't be correct, you know? And if you had time, we could go search other texts and find out who made that, who thought, who interpreted it that way.

You see what I mean? And in the oral tradition, Geshe Thubten Rinchen will tell you, oh, this is this other Sakya guy from the 14th century, and this is this other guy, this Nyingma guy from the 16th century, and, you know... Or this is the Sarah Jade textbook, you know?

Or, you know, people who can't really debate and stuff like that. Okay. Just kidding.

Okay, here we go. One, two, three. NYAN RANG THUB WANG RE CHUNG NA THUB PE WANG PO DE DANG RE RANG RE CHUNG BA YIN SHEN NA Just learn to pronounce a WANG PO, ok?

It's WANG PO. It's almost like a WAH. WAH WAH WAH Okay.

I mean, Westerners say WANG PO. WONG Right? But it's more like a WANG.

WONG PO WONG PO It's not a WA really, it's sort of a WAH. WONG PO And it's a little force to it. WONG WONG Yeah.

WONG It's not Wong, okay? It's Wong. And if you say it, then Tibetans are always, Tibetans are good, you know?

It's just Wong, you know? It's not like Wong. Okay, all right.

This is Sena instead of Serna. So what do you think?

[Speaker 2]
Huh?

[Speaker 1]
Now, yeah, the point is here, someone's going to come up and ask a reasonable question. This is somebody who wants to know something, which is what? Oh, it's not doing, it won't do it, okay.

Okay. How do you say?

[Speaker 2]
You may just need to re-install it.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, like re-install it, maybe? I'll try that. Is this, though, an older version, like that?

Yeah, okay.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, okay.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it happened on both of them. But anyway, it's okay. But we'll, we'll, we'll do the kunga.

Say kunga dundup. Kunga dundup. Yeah, migut, migut.

Kunga means everybody likes it. Dundup means siddhartha, gets things done. So what's kunga dundup?

Mula, yeah, okay. That's like Rinpoche, he'd always say, kunga dundup. He didn't want, you know, it was like code word for people who, he'd say, oh, get the kunga dundup for this guy, you know, and then the guy won't run away before he gets the kunga dundup.

Okay, here we go. So instead of saying, if you claim, or someone may come along and claim, we say, now you may wonder to yourself, you may think to yourself, okay, let's, okay, I admit it, you know, you killed this dog. What do you, you beat this dog to death.

Okay, I believe you. Listeners and self-made Buddhas are born from the Lords of the Able. But we have to go back and fix that, by the way.

I'm going to make a note, fix, born, I kept, I think I said a few times, born from Buddha instead of from Lords of the Able. I think I was just like in a rush. Okay, so if it's true that they're born from the Lords of the Able, which in Sanskrit is what?

Muneshwara. Say Muneshwara. And even in modern Hindi and in ancient Sanskrit, and the way the Tibetans heard them, the vara is not vara, it's more like a wa, wa, like Muneshwara.

You know, they'll say Ishwara. You know, om swati, om swa. They don't say swa.

You know, it's more of a W. It's between a W and a V. Okay, so swa.

So Muneshwara. Okay, so muni or muna, and then Ishwara. What's muni mean?

Well, they say Able One. The Tibetans translated it as tupa, meaning Able One. This is called one of the old translations.

There was an old translation period and then there was a new translation period. Like Nirvana dates from the old translation period because it's so complicated, jnana-nedepa, to go beyond grief, you see. Like, there was an early translation period where they were very sort of creative and then that got cut off and then it got standardized into more of a dry, sort of a drier, but more accurate.

And so, for somebody, sometimes thought able would be nice. You know, I don't know why personally, because muni means what? A silent one.

And then it's even explained that way in the scriptures, you know. When they get to, tupa means a person who doesn't chacho. Chacho means what?

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Chacho, chacho. Okay, so, so even this explanation is correct from the old meaning, but the word is wrong.

You see what I mean? So, anyway. Then Ishvara is like wangbo here.

Wang means power. Wangbo can mean your sense powers, indriyas. And then, tupa wangbo can mean like the Ishvara or the Indra meaning the king of all able ones or the king of all silent ones.

So, here we go. So, who are the able ones? What's an able one and who are they born from?

Watch this. This is cool. It does a 12 point.

Just kidding. Okay, here we go. No, we'll be in a minute.

Okay. All right, here we go. This, by the way, the following is something I never heard of and I kind of like it.

Ready? By the way, you see that first word, how do you pronounce that? Chir.

Chir. It's not the chi-chir. Say the chi-chir.

Chi-chir. Chi- Chi- Chir. Second one is aspirated.

First one is not. Chi- Chi- Chir. This one is not chir.

It's jir. Okay, got it? I'll say one.

You tell me which. First column is jir. Second column is chir.

Chi-chir is first column, second column. Chi-chir. That's second column.

Jir. Chir. Jir.

Jir. Okay, you go to Vinaya Master, Gyalrong Khensar Rinpoche, to study Vinaya or logic. I think it was logic.

And he says, aspir. Okay? Aspir.

And a Ladakhi will say aspir. And a Mongolian will say aspir. You know?

And you know, a Kampa will say aspir. You know? And just so you know, I mean, you might go crazy someday, like you're in Ladakh or something, and everybody says, aspir-tang.

What's aspir-tang? It's jir-tang, which means, generally speaking, so they say aspir-tang. You're like, huh?

Aspir-tang. You know? Okay.

So just be aware, I mean, depending on what part of Tibet you happen to fall into, you could be in trouble. Okay. If you went to Gyalrong Rinpoche's place, they'd be saying, aspir-dong.

You know? Like that. You know?

Okay. Jir, generally speaking, nyun-drip means nyomong-gi-dripa. What's that?

Mental affliction obstacles that prevent you from reaching nirvana and not... We could debate that. Bang-ba's past tense of bong-wa, to get rid of something.

Kang-sak. Yeah, and if you mispronounce it, you get a pipe, kang-sak, smoking pipe. Tam-che, tu-pa, muni or ebo-wan.

Okay. Yin. Yeah, they are.

Shing just means end. So translate that. Venerable Phil, you try.

Just that one sentence. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Good. All people, all people who bang-ba, nyun-drip, tu-pa. Great.

Okay. Chir, spi-tang, spi-tang. Generally speaking, he's covering his...

There's probably an exception somewhere, right? So he's like, generally speaking. That's how you can get out of any debate in the world.

You just start with tsor, generally, you know, mainly, or chir-tang. But if there's no exceptions, you'll get in trouble too. Right?

Then they'll say, oh, give me the exception. Why'd you say, why'd you say spi? Okay.

Anyway, hearing.

[Speaker 2]
And then, well, we'll talk about him.

[Speaker 1]
Okay? Yeah. Yeah.

That, yeah. You could say that. Can you abandon your mental and fictional obstacles and not be an arhat?

Yeah, so you could say that. Are all... Yeah.

Yeah, I think you could say that. Okay. But are all arhats just able ones?

Here we go. That comes up next. But that's not...

I never understood that. I never heard of that. Okay?

I never heard of this thing right here.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Why didn't I say all persons... We just don't say that in normal English. We don't say, all persons who would like cake, please come to the kitchen.

We just say, anyone who wants some cake, come to the kitchen. See what I mean? But if you're an immature translator, you would say, all persons who want cake should come to the kitchen.

You see what I mean? Because Tibetan has a tamte. I must translate the tamte, you know?

All right. Just cast it as normal English. Excuse me?

Because we already have person and I wanted to bring out the kangsak. He could have said kang, which means anyone. But he said kangsak, you know, any person.

So I... And that has a lot of implications. One, two, three.

One, two. Okay. Phuntsokpa.

Short form. Phuntsok. It means perfect, excellent, all-inclusive sort of, you know.

What's the Sanskrit? Atisha. Okay.

Kind of cool. And then the Tibetans just never translated it. They just liked the name Atisha.

So in Tibetan they use Atisha, but it means phuntsok, okay? Nowa. Okay.

That's a high tone because it has a fourth column on it. Fourth column prefix letter. Nowa.

Say nowa. Well, actually any prefix letter on a fourth column. Nowa.

Okay. That's okay. Yeah, you got it.

Okay. I'll tell you the point he's going to make and then I need help. Where's...

Where's my helper? Oh, he's not here. I don't know if we can do this.

Okay, we'll try. We'll muddle along. The point is he's going to say the conquerors, meaning fully enlightened Buddhas, they have Chökyi Wangchuk Phuntsokpa.

They are consummate Phuntsokpa. Chökyi Wangchuk, lords of the Dharma. Okay, like they are the kings of the Dharma.

And nowa means they possess that royalty. How do you say it? Nobility?

No, that they possess the kingdom, you know. How do you say that? Sovereignty is really close.

They are sovereigns of the Dharma. Okay. They are sovereigns of the Dharma.

Got to remember that. And Nyanrangs, okay, listeners and self-made Buddhas, they sort of can, they can sort of like administer the kingdom, but only through the Ka of the Chögyi Wangchuk. Yeah, or through the...

Ka can mean command. Don't forget it can mean command. So, through the authority of the king.

But there's a joke here. There's a pun. Why?

Ka also means what's Kangyur? What's the Ka in Kangyur? The word of an enlightened being, teachings of an enlightened being, such as teachings on profound dependent origination, ring a bell?

Yeah, so if the king gives the Ka, then they get some power over the kingdom. You see, if the king says, you have authority, you know, like Stumpf is gone, he says, you know, he writes an email to somebody, you can be dean for next week. You see, so are they dean?

Only by the Ka of the dean. You see what I mean? They're like...

What do you call it? What do you call it when somebody is dean but not forever? They're dean for the time being because...

No, there's a word. Acting dean. You're acting dean, okay?

Like the dean can give that Ka and then they are acting dean until the dean gets back. You see what I mean? But here, who's the real boss?

Who's the sovereign? It's Lord Buddha, the conqueror. But if they give their Ka, then these other guys can be acting kings, acting munis, okay?

But the Ka is what? Yeah, it's that teaching on dependent origination that makes them arhats. You see what I mean?

It's a pun. Get it? So, it's like, if the king gives his command, meaning his dharma teaching, then they will be able to rule their little place, which is what?

Lower Nirvana. You see what I mean? It's sort of a...

It's a whole pun going on here. Turning around the word Ka, which either means a king's command or the teaching of a Buddha, the dharma teaching of a Buddha. You see, so...

Yeah, yeah. Dependent... What he's been calling profound dependent origination.

So, let's try to word it. I don't know.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
I don't know how to spell it.

[Speaker 2]
Absolute... Absolute...

[Speaker 1]
I'm going to say concurrence.

[Speaker 2]
You don't need to say absolute. Sovereign is superior.

[Speaker 1]
Well, he said puntaṃsokpa. So, maybe... We'll use it for puntaṃsokpa.

Our absolute... Concurrence or absolute sovereigns over the... Absolute and...

Kongnamepa means... Lanamepa means nobody's better than them, nobody's above them. How do you...

They don't report to anybody. Highest is... You could say highest, but he used a different word.

He used, there is no one above them. Is there like any English word that definitely conveys that? You could say unsurpassed, but it really doesn't give the...

That's almost a dharma cliche.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, I know.

[Speaker 1]
Everything is unsurpassed. I'd say ultimate, yeah. Ultimate sovereign.

I like ultimate. It kind of goes with absolute ultimate, you know. Over the...

realm of the dharma. Yeah. Lessons in self-made Buddhas can take control over the realm.

Can assume control over the realm. Over the realm. Yeah, I kind of...

I like the... They call it assonance of absolute and ultimate. But anyway, can assume control over the realm through...

through their... word. Okay.

Now we're on ka. What do we do? I'll blow it out.

You can see it better. Well, let me see. The conqueror's absolute and ultimate sovereign is over the realm of the dharma.

Lessons in self-made Buddhas can assume control over the realm through the conqueror's ka. But we got to get... We got to reflect the...

Is it even possible in English? You see, at this point you get kind of... You know.

Power of their word. Did you say that? I like it.

Would you feel bad if we said word or command? Is it like too obvious? Is there too...

Okay. So the power of... I like it.

Is that okay? You did a good job. I like what you guys did on that.

Then it means... Then it doesn't mean the... the word.

You see, when you... When you make word plural it becomes blah blah. The word.

It's like decree. It's like decree. But then you miss the word thing.

You see what I mean? By the way, where do you think ka came from in ancient... I mean...

There was this guy. He was really cool. He's German.

He was... He's a mountain climber. He was in Tibet doing Mount Everest when World War II broke out.

So the... It wasn't... There was Harrier but there were other people.

I think it might have been... Yeah, it was Henry Carrier and his friend. Seven years in Tibet.

But the beginning of that story is that they got detained by the British and put into a concentration camp in India. Which was just like Diamond Mountain, you know. There wasn't anything there.

Where are they going to go, you know. And... No, there was no big fence or anything.

So like... He had a list of Tibetan verbs. That's all he had with him.

So he sat down for like three years and just looked at this list. And then he came up with this really obscure system of how the verbs came from ancient words. And he's...

It's correct. It's really interesting. So where do you think ka might come from as a noun?

Yeah, mouth. Ka. See?

Ka is aspirated. Mouth. Noun.

Ka. But if you ka, you mouth it. And so you make a verb from the noun.

You ka from a ka. You see what I mean? And then he saw all these things because he didn't have anything else to do for it.

We did that in three-year retreat too.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
I wonder if it's a conqueror.

[Speaker 1]
It could be, but I think it's a little heavy after the capital C and the conqueror. So I think we'll just let it go. Okay.

Isn't this a heavy comment? I'm going to stick this up here. Let's read the second part from where the cursor is.

Ready? One. Two.

Three. Okay. Those of you who know Tibetan, what's this S here?

Yeah, therefore. It makes a connection between the two sentences. In English, you put it at the beginning of the next sentence.

Therefore, Okay. What's the sange? Buddha.

Jambende. Conqueror. You heard this story of Palma in the back of the car and it flags it up.

We're keeping silence for a month, right? And she, she's memorizing the Heart Sutra and then she just blurts out Jambende! We're like, you know, and it means Bhagavan, right?

Bhagavan, the conqueror. Namla. Tupe Wangbo.

Three times tonight. Four is a lucky. Muneshvara.

Good. Okay. She.

Quote. Jopa Yambe Sir. That's why we call them, that's why we call Jambende's Tupe Wangbo.

Okay. All right? Why?

Why do we call them the lords of the evil ones? Yeah, they're the sovereign. And then the plain old schmuck evil ones who are just arhats, they only get their power through the word of the, of the conqueror.

You see what I mean? Get it? All right?

Cool. All right. Therefore, now it becomes really evident that, and I don't know how you want to handle this, but all along he hasn't been saying Nyen Rang Dak Chomba.

He's just been saying Nyen Rangs. Okay. We're really, all this talk about listeners and self-made Buddhists is almost exclusively about arhats, you know, those who have reached their goal really.

You see, that's what it means here. Right? He's not just talking here about normal listeners and self-made Buddhists.

Why? Are they evil ones? No.

Why not? They haven't abandoned their mental fiction obstacles. To put it in his language tonight, they haven't abandoned their, you know, mental fiction obstacles.

you know, will our readers get it? Maybe. Do we have to say arhats or something?

I don't know. Will they know that an arhat is a person who has abandoned mental fiction obstacles? They probably know that much.

They'll figure it out, right? You'll explain it to them. That's what teachers are for.

Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Hopefully they'll be able to follow it. There's a lot of stuff like that in the Chidin where they don't explain stuff to you. They expect you to go home and figure it out.

And that's the style of the book and I don't know if we should correct the style of the book. You see what I mean? Okay.

Yeah. Who's our audience? Our audience is a fairly sophisticated Dharma audience.

You know, we're not doing a double-day book. Really. You know.

Okay. One. Two.

Three. Say ngah. Ngah.

Ngah. Ngah. Ngah.

Ngah. What's ngah? Me.

Ngah. Five. Or...

Say sa ngah ta ngah. Before. Drum.

Five. To possess sovereignty. Four high tones with totally different meanings.

And one low tone, ngah, me. Okay? You'll remember.

Okay. I don't know how I'm going to do this. I guess I have to go up here.

Paragraph? Indentation. Is it here?

Do I have to do this? Oh, I got rinse down. Yeah, okay.

By the way, it's a great job. I mean, Ted and Andrew were up for hours. Many, many hours.

And they got us a new hard disk. So we have, like, enough room to put all the old ACIP data on it. And then today we just blew it out.

Like, we finished all the off files today. So it's like, you know, now we can finish the work. You know, so.

So it's totally worth it. Okay. And this is true because that's the Anakarma stance.

Now, he uses almost exactly the same language as Kīrūta Madhāgiru does. So we should cop the language. That's just the principle of translation.

Okay. So we should go up here and just, like, redo it. What did we say?

They are absolute sovereigns. He didn't say ultimate. Over.

Oh, I'm sorry. He did say ultimate. Why does he keep quoting Master Chandrakīrti to justify himself?

Yeah, I mean, he's doing all these cheers, right? Which is rikpe dupa, proving things with logic. But he can also do āgama, right?

He can also do lungi dupa. He can also prove things with scriptural authority. And in the debate ground you can do both.

Foreigners tend to be weak on the āgama. Why? They don't memorize anything.

So, like, when I was in the monastery, we were always like, prove it with reasoning, please. Because you didn't take the time to memorize all these things. Okay.

But it's good to memorize if you can. Oftentimes you can memorize, like, three crucial phrases five minutes before you walk into the debate ground, and that's enough to get you by. And they actually stick in your head.

Years later they'll pop up in your head. That's the whole point. It's like quizzes that you do just before.

That's why I always come late to class when there's quizzes, because it doubles people's study time if I'm five minutes late. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
I think that's it.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Let's read it together. One, two, three.

NYEN THOS DANG RANG SANG GYE DANG BYANG CHU SEM PA NAM PAS KYANG DBANG CHU DANG PA PHUNG SUNG SOG PA GNYIS DANG NYEN THOS LA SOG PA NAM LA DE SKYE SNGA RGYUR WAY KHYER There's a lot of problems with this quotation, so I wanted to go... Let's go look for it, okay? Oh, that's another thing I need, Mr. Ted, when you have a free moment, and you have a copious free time. I can only get up one go for the time now. Like, only the one that launches with the Windows comes up now. Where would you launch it?

I would have like two or three up at a time from here. Sorry, from Startup. I usually launch it from Startup, or I click it on the desktop, but nothing happens.

It just goes into oblivion. Say again? You can't?

I can't. Okay. I just like to have two or three up at a time sometimes.

What's going on here? Okay, hang on. Give me some words to search for.

What's the principle of what I choose to search for? Something unusual. Because I don't want to search for and, you know, in 200,000 pages of text.

So, what's kind of unusual here? Like, sovereignty is kind of unusual. This one's really unusual.

It's deke. They rule through the word. It's pretty unusual.

I put in two strings all the time. Why? Yeah, line breaks.

This doesn't search across line breaks. We wrote another program that did, but it died. Actually...

Yeah. And there's another problem. What's that?

Why should I put in, like, two or three pieces of the quotation? So far, every quotation's been wrong. So, you know, don't waste your time.

Just type in a couple of the parts, and then one of them will hit, probably. We'll say, Wangchu Thampa. Okay, here we go.

Oops. Where am I going to look? Sumpum Kangyur Tengur.

Who said this quotation? Where's it from? It's from the auto-commentary.

So it's... Tengur. Okay, wake up there.

All right, I know it's hot. I know it's exciting. What section of the Tengur?

Loma. Okay, good. Just save yourself time.

This is not the auto-commentary, so we're just going to keep going. This is the auto-commentary. Isn't it, Phil?

3862? I don't remember. Anyway, it looks right, right?

Let's just compare it. Oh, we finished the De La Kona. Maybe Chukyi Wangchu puts this up on our way.

Nientu Dang. Langsang Gye Dang. Where are we?

Changchup Sempa. Okay, Natpe. Oops.

There we go. So we can correct this one. Then...

Where are we? Nam is plural, okay? What's nampa without the sa?

Type. Type or form. And nampa with the sa means plural.

Totally different words, okay? And they misspelled it. How can you translate that?

It's making a difference between T-W-O and T-O-O. You see? And you're like, I don't get it.

How come there's two apples? T-O-O apples, you know? Is it too much apple?

And they just misspelled it. It's T-W-O. And then how can you translate that?

So it's really good to have a database. You should support John Brady. Okay.

No, you could never do it. You'd just be hopeless without it. How could you translate it?

Let's just check the rest of it. I don't think there's any problems, but... kyang wang chok dang pa phun sum sok pa nyi dang nyen tu la sok pa nam Whoa.

La. He added la. That makes more sense without it.

de kye na gyur wa ye chur Okay. The rest I can live with. The rest we can figure it out.

Okay. What folio are we on? 220A.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
I'm just going to make a note down at the end. This is going to end down here. Okay.

Was it 3862, right? Okay. Now, this is kind of weird.

I mean, I'll translate it. Then you help me. Logically, I'm not quite sure about this.

Sorry? Oh, I'm going to leave it. It doesn't change the meaning that much.

It's not worth making a note about, really. Oh, I get it. Now I get it.

For they do so by virtue of... the word of the conquerors? Is that okay?

[Speaker 2]
Is it single or plural word? Conqueror.

[Speaker 1]
We've been using single because it's so impressive. It's the word of the king. The words of the king is a different feeling, right?

The word, right? It's possessive plural. It's plural possessive.

Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, comfortable? You all right? Nod.

Okay. Very good. Say again?

We had a thing at the diamond business. There was this camera on us 24 hours a day. Every moment you're in the diamond business, you're covered by two or three cameras.

Nobody's watching, but we didn't know that. And so we got this piece of paper and we put a photo of a diamond sorter on it and we cut out the arm and we put it on a spring so it would go like this. And then we glued it up in front of the camera and it was like this all day, you know, picking up diamonds.

And nobody noticed. Okay. Okay.

Here we go. One, two, three. Sangye chomden de nam la tukpe wangpo she jao she sungpe kye Do you want to try one?

Forget the second she sungpe kye. Just try. There was a big...

This is the therefore that you carry across to the next sentence. Therefore we she jao to the conquerors. Therefore we call the...

Then you switch it in English syntax. Therefore we call chomden deis tukpe wangpos. Okay?

Got it? Therefore we call conquerors quote, lords of the able ones. Got it?

And we were supposed to invent this. This is still a quotation. The people at home think I'm torturing one of the students.

[Speaker 2]
I wonder.

[Speaker 1]
What was it? 228? I think at some point when you're doing a long translation you just start saying AC or something for auto-commentary.

We'll start that at some point. Hello, Bill. Where are you?

Nope. Okay. Okay.

He refuses to do a bracelet. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
All right.

[Speaker 1]
Have it your way. Right then and there? You have Wiley Word on, it looks like.

Do I? Is that what I'm doing wrong? Where is it?

[Speaker 2]
If you go to Tools.

[Speaker 1]
Tools.

[Speaker 2]
And then do a little download.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Say again?

[Speaker 2]
Chubletts and Adams.

[Speaker 1]
Whoa. Okay. Oh.

How do I do that? Oops. Cool.

How'd you figure that out? Did it say okay? Now it'll do it?

Wow. Howdy. Yay.

How long did it take you? Quit showing off. Quit showing off.

Oh, that's cool.

[Speaker 2]
Aha.

[Speaker 1]
I think I have to do one more. Hang on one sec. Okay, yeah?

[Speaker 2]
Why did Master Kirito debate again, say, Sunday?

[Speaker 1]
That's a good point. And this is why we call. That was Master Chanakirti, actually.

I don't know why. You could debate it in the debate room. Maybe he wants to emphasize that, you know, the enlightenment we call that.

Okay, ready? One, two, three. DE CHUNG TSUL YANG CHANG SEM LAS CHUNG PA YIN TE CHANG SEM LAS CHUNG PA RIG PEC YANG DRUG NUNG GI YANG DRUG PEC YIN TE Okay, good.

CHUNG. CHUNG KHAR DRUK CHEN. Birth.

Holy. Take your holy birth. What's CHUNG KHAR DRUK CHEN?

Dalai Lama's birthday. Dalai Lama's birthday. What's TSUL MIN?

Way. Yeah, way. So, as far as how they CHUNG, okay?

That's the first three words. Yang, you don't have to read that right here. CHUNG SEM is CHUNG CHI SUM PA.

Bodhisattva. LAY CHUNG. Yeah, they're born from Bodhisattvas.

Who's they? Or more specifically? The able ones?

The Lords of the able ones. Yeah, yeah, yeah. CHUNG PA YIN TE.

Why? The fact that they are CHUNG SEM LAY CHUNG PA, you can DRUG, you can prove it with RIG PA and with LUNG. Good.

Okay. So, you got the sentence, right? Now as for how they take birth, now as for how they take their holy birth, they're born from Bodhisattvas.

And you can prove that through both logic and scripture. Those of you who are learning, you know, if you're Tibetan's that good, you'd say, RIG PA KYANG DRUG. LUNG KYI YANG DRUG.

Say it with me, ready? RIG PA KYANG DRUG. LUNG KYI YANG DRUG.

And it means both BLA and BLA. You say by BLA BLA YANG. BLA BLA YANG.

And KYANG is just a substitute for YANG. So it's like RIG PA KYANG DRUG. LUNG KYI YANG DRUG.

Like that. You'd say it like that. It's proved both by scripture, by logic and by scripture.

You see what I mean? In English. In Tibetan you have to say DA-DA-DA-DA YANG.

DA-DA-DA-DA YANG. Okay. You say also twice in Tibetan.

Okay. Okay, here we go. Okay.

Okay. In Tibetan you repeat the whole thing. You say, now as for how they take their holy birth, they take it from Bodhisattvas.

They take their holy birth from Bodhisattvas and that can be established. And just in English you wouldn't do that. You see, so in certain in certain kinds of repetitions you don't have to repeat them in English.

It would be less accurate, I say, to repeat it. It would be confusing to an English reader. You see what I mean?

So I assert that it would be less accurate to follow the literal wording than to just apply what an English person would supply. You see what I mean? So think about that sometime.

It kind of drives the hypertextors crazy, but that's all right. They're used to ambiguity, right? Right, Eric?

Okay, here we go. I'm just going to say, here's how we prove it. Okay?

You don't have to worry about that. I like this one. You'll like this.

You should do this in the debate ground tomorrow. Tomorrow?

[Speaker 2]
Thursday.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, okay. We'll debate at Seichu if we can. One, two, three.

Ka-chi, tu-pe, wang-po, chang-sen-le, tun-pa, mai-yin-pa, da-da-da-da-yin-mei-tsu. So Ka-chi is coming up and saying, da-da-da-da-da-da, because da-da-da-da-da-na. Actually, you don't know if he's going up or down.

You don't know if he's being sarcastic yet. Let's see what he says first, and then you'll know whether to go up or down with your voice, okay? Let's keep going.

One, two, three. Chang-sen, tu-pe, wang-po-le, tun-pe, mei-tsu. Alistair, you want to try?

Ka-chi. Yeah. Mai-yin.

I'll help you with the word order, syntax. Mai-yin. It's not the case that tu-pe, wang-po, or tun-pa from chang-sen.

Okay, got it? Just say it as a sentence now. Basically, it's not true that Buddhists come from Bodhisattvas.

Okay? Because chang-sens tru from tu-pe, wang-po.

[Speaker 2]
Okay? Good argument? It's not bad.

[Speaker 1]
We do disagree with the mind-only self-perception thing, right? A mother can't give birth to herself.

[Speaker 2]
A child can't give birth to a mother.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. A child can't give birth to her mother. Okay.

So here we go. Is there a ser somewhere down here? There we go.

There's a ser. So now we can supply a verb for this ka-chi. What?

Suppose someone, yeah, makes the following claim. He's already defeated, right? It's not really fair.

We already relegated him to a claim. Okay. Right.

Oh, so we go up or down? I think up, because does he believe it or he doesn't believe it himself? Yeah, he believes it.

It can't be that Buddhists come from Bodhisattvas, because Bodhisattvas come from Buddhists. Okay, it can't be. So we would go up.

In Tibetan you go up. So let's do it together. Ready?

Ka-chi. Okay, like, how could you say that? It's like that in English.

You know, your voice goes up, up. How could you say that? Like, ma-yin-ba-tha.

You know, it can't be, you know. Okay, anyway. No, sorry, he believes it.

It can't be that thing. All right. Where am I?

I'll do this better later. Okay. Cool.

This is cool. You'll like this one. Let's do it together.

Is he going to go up? He's like saying, it is so. It is so the case.

He's like, so is he going to go up or down? Da-tha or da-tha? Da-tha.

He's still on his roll. But it is, it must be because he's still going. Okay?

One, two, three. Da-tha, tu-pe-wang-bu, te-chen-gi-lang, je-bu-dan-che-pa, de-ne-nyam-su-lang-ba, de-la-te-ne-chang-sem-chung-be, de-la-gyal-we-se, se-ju-pe-su. Ser-na.

Ser-na is like, if you say a claim, you make the stupid claim. That's us coming in. He finished with that.

Then we're like, Ser-na.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
Okay. This is a tricky one. Well, let's do it.

Let's do it. We're still in his, we're still in his kacig. By the way, kacig can also mean what he said.

Just so you know. Like in the monastery, they'll say, do you believe his kacig? Do you buy that kacig?

Meaning, do you buy that statement? You see what I mean? So you should know that.

What's the kacig here? Oh, kacig came and said that. Okay?

Got it? It's not, it becomes a word for his argument and not a name for him. Okay?

What's the kacig here? Oh, he's, some guy's saying that if bodhisattvas are born from, what? Buddha can't be born from bodhisattvas because bodhisattvas are born from buddhas.

Okay. This is cool. Watch this.

Mmm. Okay. Is that right?

Oh. You're right. Good.

Okay. Everybody knows they're called jinaputra, right? They're called children of the victors.

So it must be that bodhisattvas are born from buddhas and not buddhas from bodhisattvas. You know, you don't call buddhas bodhisattva children, children of the bodhisattvas. You see what I mean?

You call bodhisattvas children of the buddhas. Right? Not bad argument.

Yeah, what's our answer? Now, this is a little tricky. The reason I, you see, this word ten up here would be they get teachings.

Okay. And he has something nyen which could be construed as listen under certain circumstances, in very weird circumstances. So I'm just going to see.

First, let's look up nyen and see if it ever is a verb. This is what I would personally do if I was going to work on this. Not found in the dictionary, the Great Tibetan Dictionary.

Okay, as a verb. Yeah, not found in... I mean, nyen means to hear, low tone, without the BS, bhaosa.

But... Sorry. But...

So is there some verb I don't know about, like super hearing verb, or bisnyen, you know, something like that? Is it... So then we look in the Great Dictionary of Tibetan Language.

This is like... This is like the greatest dictionary I've ever written, thousands and thousands of pages. It doesn't occur once in there.

Okay. That's one clue. No, it's still possible.

There's stuff that's not in that dictionary. It's a modern dictionary, you know, it has some problems. But what else?

What else could we do to confirm the reading? Can we go to the Kangyur or Tengur? Who's talking here?

Where's this come from? Some guys come up to complain. I'll tell you the truth, he's just Ketub Tenpag Dage's creation.

Okay? He's an imaginary... Maybe it's some guy he met in the debate ground last week, you know, you don't know.

Maybe it comes from some other scripture, but... But mostly it's just his own... He's creating opponents now for us to knock down, and thereby learn more, which is a lot more fun than having somebody just list the truth for you.

This whole process of having somebody come up and make either stupid arguments or increasingly sophisticated arguments is like the brilliant achievement of the monastic textbooks. It's like brilliant. It's a lot more fun to have...

You don't find out the correct view until you've heard 20 guys come and give you a slightly defective one. And then it's much more effective for learning. It's like Socratic dialogue.

You know, it's like you talk, you're listening to people fight with each other, and then you learn from that. And then young monks in the monastery, they get that when the older monks come, and they'll come into the debate ground and say something slightly wrong just to see if the younger monk can prove them wrong. And sometimes the older monk will prevail, and everybody goes home thinking the wrong idea, you see.

And then he'll come the next night and say, you don't remember that thing I said last night? It's wrong, and you should have proved me wrong, and here's how you should have done it. You see what I mean?

Or sometimes they let them beat them, and then they're, oh, you're so smart, you know, you got me. And then the young guy goes home, oh, you know, I got him. And they feel better.

Everyone feels good. So we have another resource that we haven't been using much because we didn't have to. Do you remember?

You don't have to go to the database, per se. Yeah, which doesn't make a lot of sense. It is a verb.

It's a possible verb. Let's go to the scan. Oh, sorry.

Sambhun? Uma? Umachidan?

Okay. Now this is a little tricky. This takes a long time.

This is why we don't, this is why John Brady is inputting this stuff and not scanning it, although it's very nice to have the scans. And here it's the old way. You just have to...

There's the Drelpa Kacig. Somebody says Kacig in the commentary. We'd finish that, but we're not much further on, right?

Sangye Chomde Dey Namla Thibhiyo Mamachit That's why they're called Fully Enlightened Buddhas. Let's blow it up a bit for you. You can also go blind with these scan things.

Where do you do that? This one, right?

[Speaker 2]
Oh, did we?

[Speaker 1]
Was it? Sangye Chomde Dey Namla Oh, okay. I'm not sure we're on the same edition.

See, that's a problem. I think we probably are. Rancho de Tembe Yeah, there we go.

No, sorry. Here it is right here. It's off the screen halfway.

Here we go. Right here, okay? Above the plus sign in the bottom.

You see it? Can you see it? I'll get up on top of the screen.

[Speaker 2]
Hang on.

[Speaker 1]
It's right here. Above the micro... What do you call it?

Magnifying glass. It's BSTAN. It's B-S-T-A-N, okay?

Got it? See here? This is...

Can you see it? No.

[Speaker 2]
It's hard to see. Click it again.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, okay. Where did it go? It's right here.

Got it? See it? Okay.

So that's another choice you have if you have like 20 years to translate to text. You can go... You know, it would have taken you an hour to find the right line and stuff, you see?

So... Or whatever. So...

But that's an option. Do you notice something about this text? Is it a carving?

It's handwritten, okay? They wrote the first text out at Saramay in the refugee camp in Baxa with cow's urine and charcoal on handmade paper, garbage paper. Garbage.

You know, throwing out bags and stuff like that. And so there were a lot of mistakes. We don't have a carving of the umachina.

I don't have a carving of the umachina. All we have is this handwritten record. So...

They wrote from memory? I don't think so. I think they had another version or...

I don't know. Some things they wrote from memory. But this is too much, I think.

But we still don't have... I don't personally have access yet to a carving. Which would be nice.

Okay, here we go. So let's bestand and we feel comfortable to change it. And that's why John's work is so important.

And you should really... Every chance you get to plug it or raise him some money, you should do it. Because otherwise we just won't have these things.

We just won't have them. If this didn't exist in the world, it would be like a really stupid world. Okay.

Okay, let's go together. One, two, three. Chang sem?

Bodhisattvas. Ran? Themselves.

Rangyilings. To themselves. To them.

Gyawa? Victor. Buddha.

Who teach the Dharma. Gacik means a couple. It's like gacik.

Okay, in that quotation we had. A couple or some number. Le tung.

Okay. Bodhisattvas are born. Bodhisattvas do take their holy birth from some number of Buddhas who teach them the Dharma.

Okay. Bodhisattvas do take their birth from some number. He's saying it could be more than one.

Right? Of Buddhas who teach them the Dharma. Pe.

Therefore. We she. We call them gyawase.

Jinaputra. We call them children of the victors. Demba.

Demba. It's true. Mu means I admit.

It's like this. You're going like this. Mu.

You know. Demba. I admit.

But you know what's coming next.

[Speaker 2]
It's like.

[Speaker 1]
I totally agree.

[Speaker 2]
You know.

[Speaker 1]
I totally agree. They're called children of the victors because they are taught the Dharma by some number of Buddhas and they're born as Bodhisattvas. From that.

Totally correct. Then what comes next? Gyang.

Then he's like. Gyang. You ever seen Geshe Thubten Rinchen?

He's like. Gyang. You know.

Then he's like. Gyang. But.

Okay. Okay. All right.

I think I'm going to cover the true of course. I just have to admit that. I'm sorry.

What's next?

[Speaker 2]
But.

[Speaker 1]
But. Okay. Now in English you'd put the but on the next sentence.

Right?

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
So let's. Let's do this one. Ready?

One. Two. Three.

Thu-be. Oang-po. Chang-sem-le.

Thun-ba. Min-gyel-te. Say min-gyel.

Min-gyel. Min-gyel. This is a prenasal.

The aow before the ga is n-gyel. And if there's what we call an open vowel before it, it's much stronger. Like what's that famous monastery?

Ganden. There's no N in Ganden. It's just this open vowel ga followed by a prenasal n-den.

So it comes out Ganden. And then foreigners are always spelling it with an N, you know, in the Tibetan. Okay.

So this is the same thing. Min-gyel. Just get used to it.

It's really a nga. Okay. What's men-da?

Do you know? May-da. May-nda.

Is a gun. Why? Fire.

Arrow. Or fire spear. May-da is a men-da.

Is a gun. Okay. So those are some of the cases where you get a heavy prenasal.

And it's good to know. If you go around saying min-gyel, they just won't get it. They say, Huh?

You say, Min-gyel. Min-gyel. Don't ride a horse.

Min-gyel means to ride a horse or something. Or a saddle or something like that. A man rode a horse?

What are you trying to tell me? It's not like I'm not doing the prenasal stuff because I'm anal. It's because if you don't say it right, they're just like, Man rode a horse?

What do you mean? You say, Min-gyel means what? Gyelwa min-do.

No gyelwa. There's no contradiction. Okay.

Is that right? Okay. I admit.

I mean, Bodhisattvas are born from Buddhas. But that's not to say that Buddhas can't be born from Bodhisattvas. There's no contradiction there.

Okay? You all right? So can we say that Lord Buddha was born from Datsun Kappa?

Why not? Datsun Kappa was born from Lord Buddha and there's no contradiction. You just said there's no contradiction.

Don't you believe what you just said?

[Speaker 2]
Huh?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah, you did say that. You said it's no contradiction to say as well that Lord Buddha was born from Bodhisattvas. So Lord Buddha was born from Datsun Kappa because Datsun Kappa was born from Lord Buddha.

There's no contradiction. You just said Min-gyel. You just said Min-gyel.

That's a cheat sheet. Don't give me cheat sheet. Cheat sheet says who said that?

You said that. You said Min-gyel. Ah, good.

Count my two. Which is to say what? I did say Min-gyel.

But that don't mean that Datsun Kappa was born... I'm sorry, that Lord Buddha was born from Datsun Kappa. Okay?

He said it. Good answer. Count my two.

You'll like this. And this will be the last thing we'll do. Let's do it together.

One, two, three. RANG DANG GYUR GCIG TU GYUR PAS BYANG CHUB SEM PAS NYER LEN DANG RANG DANG GYUR THAR PHET THUB GYUR PAS BYANG SEM GAR ZHIG GIS PHEN GYIS BYAS KHYEN BYAS PA LA BRTEN CHUNG PA'I PHIR There's an idiom here that you have to learn. RANG DANG GYUR GCIG TU GYUR PAS Say RANG DANG GYUR GCIG TU GYUR PAS RANG DANG GYUR GCIG TU GYUR PAS And you have to learn that.

You won't find it in any dictionary. RANG DANG GYUR GCIG TU GYUR PAS means Which is one mental continuum with himself. RANG DANG means with himself.

GYUR GCIG means one mental continuum. meaning, he himself in a former life. Is he born from that Bodhisattva?

Rangdang gyu-cig tu gyur pey chang-sam le. Atum. Atum.

Atum. Means, is he? Is he born?

Atum. You say, at before anything, you know. Rangdang gyu-cig tu gyur pey chang-sam le.

Atum. Was he born from a Bodhisattva who was himself in his past life? Nod or shake your head.

Either one. Good. Okay.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

He's true. Yeah. True.

Atum. Then tell me the difference between a nirlinggi gyu and a henjik chengyan. This is old, old story.

You've had this a thousand times. What's a nirlinggi gyu? Yeah.

The stuff that turns into the thing. What's the nirlinggi gyu for a vase? The clay.

Right? Then what's the henjik chengyan for a vase? The potter.

Yeah. The potter. The wheel.

The guy who paid for the pot. These are all contributing factors. So nirlinggi gyu is the thing that turned into.

And then there's a henjik chengyan which is a contributing, like you could almost say a contributing external factor in a way. So do Buddhas have nirlinggi gyu of a Bodhisattva? Yes.

Yeah. Like Lord Buddha gained bodhichitta in the hell realms. You know the story, right?

Like he was... Long story. Anyway, he got bodhichitta in the hell realms.

And then, which leads to a whole other argument. You know, like, do you want a body of leisure and fortune so you can get bodhichitta? Or would it be better to be in a hell realm?

You see? Because isn't that the way Lord Buddha did it? But anyway, that's another debate.

But are there any henjik chengyan Bodhisattvas for Buddha? Are there any Bodhisattvas who are henjik chengyans for Buddha? So Lord Buddha in 212,000 previous great kalpas never had a Bodhisattva teaching?

Right? So obviously they have henjik chengyan Bodhisattvas which are not rung, dang, gyu, chig, du, gyur, pa, right? Which are not himself in his past life as a Bodhisattva, right?

So that's what he's saying here. And this is true because they take their holy birth. Now, this is so long you might want to split it.

You see what I mean? From two kinds of Bodhisattvas. You see, it doesn't say that technically.

Right, he's going to say that. That's next week. That's Friday.

Okay. You can be Friday. You can come in on Friday.

Come in on the material costs. I just say the Bodhisattva they used to be. I don't give this, you know, who is concomitant mental continuum with themselves, you know.

Come on. This is the Bodhisattva that they used to be. All right.

That's all. Factor. He says gyuta de, gyuta de.

That's the opposite of randang gyu, chig, du, gyur, pa. How do you want to express it? If you can give me the answer, you can go home.

You see who are, who are, literally it's separate mind streams. You can say that. Who are different from themselves or other than themselves.

That's nice. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I think so. I think you got to say the other than themselves, because otherwise he would have said shin. And whenever you, you make a choice in translation two ways.

One is a positive reason. This fits the thing. One is a negative reason.

It excludes possible misreadings. You see what I mean? Like that.

So you have to balance both. Okay, cool. Is this a mind only argument?

I don't know. I don't know. I always get confused like that.

What do you guys feel? It's an English thing.

[Speaker 2]
It's just an English oddity.

[Speaker 1]
It's a weird thing about English. It's a weird thing about English. I think it's okay because we got this day here.

I think it's okay because we got this day. But in general you're right. Sometimes I sit there and stare at a sentence and wonder if I should change it from themselves to themselves.

[Speaker 2]
We also have the day because of the gender thing, right?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I hate this, you know, like he or her or she or him.

They should make one pronoun now. If they're going to do it, which they, it's done, but they should just, like him or herm, or something like that, you know. Anyway.

Okay.

[Speaker 2]
You can try to interject.

[Speaker 1]
Stuff like that happens. Okay. All right.

Well, thank you for doing it. And I think you got a lot of ammunition for a debate this week, right? So go over those arguments.

And I want to hear some really confiscated? Convoluted arguments. No, I mean, they will go for four or five hours.

Two guys will go out for four or five hours, just in circles. You know, like, also Buddhas are both... You know, I know they're both...

No, but you said... And then they'll be all done, they'll get it figured out, and then somebody will start again. The same thing.

And you're just like... No, I mean, we finished that. Young debaters can go take this one for like four or five hours.

Because there's no real conclusion, right? If you keep twisting it. So anyway.

Try to do that. It's really good for your Tibetan.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, cool. Please see emptiness. Tomorrow.

Ask the boss. Can we know something about Sechi before people leave? I don't know.

Either way, they'll give it, right?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay.

[Speaker 2]
There wasn't the concept of somebody debating outside.

[Speaker 1]
We'll have Sechi tomorrow, here, seven o'clock. And then there was a question about debate, but in the monastery they considered it a blessing if the debate interrupts a meeting. You know, like, we had our board meetings of the monastery up on top of the temple, over the debate ground.

When it was in the courtyard of the temple, we didn't have enough money to buy a debate ground. And you couldn't hear anything in the board meeting. You're like, what did you say?

And it's all like, ah, ah, ah. It's like 30 feet above the debate ground, directly above the debate ground. But they don't consider it...

It's considered a blessing. Because you hear some guy say, Rangdev, did you give it? That's all you hear.

And you're like, oh yeah, he must be debating the bodhisattva thing. Subconsciously, you get it stuck into your head. And they say you should scream in the debate ground because spirits hear it.

The louder you are, the more... Obviously, the more other monks will hear it, which is a blessing for their mind stream. But also, all kinds of spirits in the desert, all kinds of people who used to live here, all kinds of animals, they'll just get some kind of bhakta hit on the head.

And then 30 lifetimes from now, they'll hear Rangdev Chittagirpa, and they'll say, oh, you know, sounds good to me somehow. You see, you've heard Rangdev Chittagirpa like 10 billion times. You're here, and it appeals to you because somebody screamed in the debate like 30 lifetimes ago.

Otherwise, you wouldn't understand it. Even if I explained it, you wouldn't understand it. You've heard it over and over.

So be loud. There's many reasons to be loud in the debate ground. All right.