Вступление на срединный путь (текущий курс, Аризона), занятие 26

[Speaker 1]
Okay, we're still trying to prove that Buddhas come from Bodhisattvas and not Bodhisattvas from Buddhas, right?

[Speaker 2]
Don't just nod, okay?

[Speaker 1]
No, if you're in the debate ground, you have to think. Don't just nod, you'll get in trouble. What's that?

Oh, that Bodhisattvas come from Buddhas, but...

[Speaker 2]
We accept that Bodhisattvas come from Buddhas.

[Speaker 1]
We do? But then Bodhisattvas can't come from Buddhas. We won't do that.

So here it says... They talked about nirnangigyu and... What's the other one?

Right? So the thing that turns into the thing is the nirnangigyu, like the clay for a pitcher. And then, so there's the Bodhisattva that turned into a Buddha.

And then he says, he claims there's nirnangigy, what would that be? Bodhisattvas who teach Buddhas? Omniscient beings?

Bodhisattvas who teach the Bodhisattvas who became the Buddha. Other mainstream Bodhisattvas who teach Buddhas?

[Speaker 2]
He teaches the Bodhisattvas who turned into the Buddha.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, that's okay. All right, that's better. Datto.

And that is... Okay, here we go. One, two, three.

Datto. Datto.

[Speaker 2]
Datto.

[Speaker 1]
We said Buddhas take their births from Bodhisattvas because they take births from the Bodhisattva they used to be and they take births from other Bodhisattvas. Normally, when you just said something, then you're trying to... Datto goes up, you know.

That is true, that is so. Datto. Say Datto.

[Speaker 2]
Datto.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. One, two, three. Datto.

One, two, three. Dato, Dato, Dato, Dato, Dato, Dato. Penna?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, for example.

[Speaker 1]
Papajambel?

[Speaker 2]
Arya Manjushri.

[Speaker 1]
Chandrasambha?

[Speaker 2]
Bodhisattva.

[Speaker 1]
when he was, okay? When he was a bodhisattva. Dhu.

What's dhunkara? Dhunkara. Kala chakra.

So dhu means what? Time. So yeah, at the time that he was a bodhisattva.

Dakacak is us guyses, all of uses. It's a very, it's sort of a gentle way to say all of us. It's a polite thing for a lama to say.

See really they're much different than us. They say we're all of us guys. You know, Dakacaki Thumba, teacher.

Let's see what else you know here. No, that's about it. Okay.

Okay.

[Speaker 2]
As well as. As well as, right.

[Speaker 1]
That's it, yeah. That's true.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, we hear about occurrences or situations. I think I'll stick with situations. But anyway, the point, it's pretty, it's pretty.

So Manjushri is a bodhisattva and he's teaching Buddha. And he's getting them to get bodhichitta. Yeah, they're in their pre-Buddha.

Okay, obviously. Okay. But you can debate it.

You can memorize this and lay it on people in the debate ground. Oh, you know, Manjushri was a bodhisattva, yeah. And he taught the Buddhas, okay.

And he got them to get bodhichitta. Okay. And then, you know, you can have a big debate about it.

All right. That's for Manjukosha. And this is Manjushri.

Okay, this is the Glorious Gentleman. And I once asked Rinpoche if there was ever any difference. And he kind of said no.

But he said it was still important to distinguish them for some reason. Okay. We did that in one book.

You can do that. In that day is when the Glorious... Or you can stick them in as a positive.

How do you guys feel? Yeah. Maybe in the back we'll talk about it.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
I have big debates with people. I agree that it's kind of questionable. It's a thing you could debate about.

[Speaker 2]
Maybe we could give them a link to the Hypertext Dictionary.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Okay. Yeah.

Okay, here we go. One, two, three. Pronounce this for me, ready?

Very slowly. These two syllables. One, two, three.

Gyor. Ngyor. Okay?

Big difference. One is cause, one is became. Listen.

Gyor. Ngyor. Got it?

Gyor. Ngyor. And if you don't know the difference, if you can't hear the difference, then the words are the same to you.

Then they mean totally different things, right? One is a cause, one means to become. The second one has a slight penasal.

One more time. Gyor. Ngyor.

Okay. Here's the end of the sentence right here. Like two paragraphs down.

Okay? And it's here. So we have to say up here.

What? And this is true. You know, I just went down to check.

Dzin du chukpa. Chukpa is a... Chukpa means to incite somebody to do something.

Can you think of a better word? See, they've incited this person to develop bodhichitta. Inspire.

Let me think about that. Inspire... Encourage is pretty good.

How? Provoke? Yeah, provoke is...

They even provoke someone to be kind. I don't know. That's what it...

It happens, I know. That is a prophetic... Okay, here we go again.

One, two, three. Dhe la ne kap gi kye pa re ni. Te shing shek pe ne kap gi.

Chan chu sem pe ne kap. Gyu che yin pa ni gi. Okay.

Yeah, that's good. Um... Ah, no.

It's okay, it's okay. In a certain very pure way, you see. Okay.

Dhe la ne kap gi kye pa... The way in which they pervade a person. Okay, you are...

[Speaker 2]
After what?

[Speaker 1]
Ah... Ah... Well, I wanted to catch particular...

There's a particular before that, see. Okay. Ah...

I think it's... Yeah, let me go. Um...

Okay, hang on. Okay, this is all the second half of the sentence. One, two, three.

Oh, this is something... Give me a word. Kye tokmar konar Kye tokmar konar It means like...

In time... Like you can't imagine how long ago. Kye means...

Greatly. tokmar means beginning, konar means, you know, the very. Because you're talking...

How long does it take him after he got bodhichitta? No. 75,000, 76,000, and 77,000.

Countless eons. Eons times 10 to the 60th power. Right?

After he got bodhichitta to get enlightenment. So, this is long before that. That Manjushri as a bodhisattva taught them into getting bodhichitta.

You know, Lord Buddha, our Buddha. You see, so this is like a long... Ched tokmar konar.

Like, how do you want to say it? It's like...

[Speaker 2]
Immeasurable times past. Immeasurable times past. Immeasurable, inconceivable...

[Speaker 1]
Eons past.

[Speaker 2]
Immeasurable past, which is the source of...

[Speaker 1]
How would you say the whole thing, though? That's too weak, I think. Yeah, I think something like that.

What did we use, that lame thing up there? In a very particular, very pure way. Okay, we'll work on that.

Okay? But still the wording is a little... Devo mandu, as Geshe Thottam Rinchen would say, the wording is still uncomfortable, right?

Because they're referring already to them as... Buddhas. So you have a bodhisattva teaching a Buddha how to get bodhichitta?

I mean, the wording is... You can have a good debate, you know. But you know what it means.

No, I think they just assume you know. And maybe if you mentioned their original names, you wouldn't know. Like, maybe at that time he was Joshmo.

So if you say, look, you know, my Jushri talked Joshmo into... into having bodhichitta, you know. Because they had other names, right?

Sometimes they give them names. And then you get confused because you don't know that it means our Buddha. So I think they're just trying to help you.

I don't think it's... You can debate it though. You can start a debate about it.

You can say it's, you know, there was a case when a bodhisattva taught a Buddha bodhichitta. You know. And then they'll say, of course not.

And then you'll say, well, I guess the auto-commentary is not correct then. And then you would quote it. You see what I mean?

And then you'd set off a whole debate. What do we have to do now that's boring and necessary? Yeah.

Okay. Tell me how to search. First of all, it's a long quotation, which makes it easier.

Say again? Can I ask you a question? Sure.

[Speaker 2]
He talks up above in the paragraph about how they cause other people to come to... Then in that paragraph he talks about they stop talking about others and he's talking about the former stage of the man and bodhisattva himself.

[Speaker 1]
That's when, yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 2]
So that's how they provide help for others?

[Speaker 1]
No, he's saying there's two kinds of causes. The one that turns into the Buddha, which is his former life as a bodhisattva. The scripture is backing him up, what he said coming into tonight's class, which was that there are bodhisattvas that turn into Buddhas, and then those Buddhas have also been trained by other bodhisattvas that are not them in a former life, right?

And then he gives us an example, Manjushri, who taught Lord Buddha in a former life.

[Speaker 2]
So that is when he says provide a former stage.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 2]
In general, not...

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and the Sanskrit is obscure. It's really obscure. I mean, it sounds like bodhisattvas provide former stages for Buddhas of the later stages.

But we know that he's trying to prove they come from them directly. So, you know, it's a little more comfortable for us. Okay.

Oh, you're going to help me pick a unique piece to sit for.

[Speaker 2]
Manjushri, in his past life, he was a bodhisattva?

[Speaker 1]
We have a problem. We've got like 16 letters. You know, you see what I mean?

[Speaker 2]
If you look at Japa Yagnir, Japa Ni, he jumped.

[Speaker 1]
You could say, I think I like that. Let's try that. Jump, bell.

Right?

[Speaker 2]
If you add the jump, that's going to make it... Yeah, I would think that too.

[Speaker 1]
Well, let's try. Jump, tree.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Let's try that. Why don't you put it nearby somewhere? Nearby?

Oh, that... I have a question though. Let me see something.

Okay. Okay. Okay, here we go.

We were here, right? So we took this piece, and where are we going to search? Kangyur, tengur, or sundur?

Tengur. Tengur, right. Just the tengur?

Uma. Because it's the... Autocommentary.

Okay. 3862 is it? Where's Phil?

Oh, he's my number man. I'm just going to skip straight to the autocommentary. Yeah, there you go, okay?

Let's see if it's the same. Yeah, there's only one word I was a little bit uncomfortable about. But we'll get back to that.

Let's see what folio it's on. 221B. I left out one word.

Döpa-yönö. What's döpa mean at the end of a sentence? Yeah, somebody thinks that, you see.

He is said to have induced. Okay? A little bit different, right?

It casts some doubt on it. But that's what it says. Okay, right.

[Speaker 2]
Sorry?

[Speaker 1]
Oh, completely different than serna. Because a döpa can be our own belief also. Okay.

Yeah, there's a serna. Chikila said there's a serna. Let's stop there.

Okay. Okay, ready? Here we go.

This is a long sentence. One, two, three. Tübe, ombo, chanchu, sempa, ne, tumba, dupa, de, dokpa, sona, nepa, yin, serna.

This is a very, very difficult idiom. Say, denkater. Denkater.

He's going to say, look, You allowed the fact that bodhisattvas come from buddhas. And so, rather than that helping you prove that buddhas come from bodhisattvas, you got stuck right where you were in the first place. You know?

Okay? Like you shouldn't have agreed that bodhisattvas come from buddhas. Because then you're already on our side.

You see? Because all we said was, yeah, it's true that bodhisattvas come from buddhas, but that doesn't mean that buddhas don't come from bodhisattvas. But he didn't hear the second half.

He's like, oh man, once you admit it, you're in trouble. Okay? Like, denkater means, denkater means, literally it means you gave the word of truth.

Meaning, you admitted to the truth of the fact that bodhisattvas come from buddhas. And once you did that, then rather than Lelar managing some kind of logic that helped you prove that it wasn't contradictory, that buddhas could come from bodhisattvas, you got stuck in our position. Okay?

He's saying something like that. But what do you want to say for denkater? It's extremely rare and it's a really weird idiom.

It means you've given your agreement that it's true. But how to say it in plain English? You have...

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Conceded is good.

[Speaker 1]
Conceded is good. Yeah, okay. I like it.

Now here's another idiom. Dhopasona nepa. Say dhopa.

[Speaker 2]
Dhopa.

[Speaker 1]
Sona nepa. Sona nepa. Dhopa means, dhopa, it means, it's a really hard word.

In modern colloquial, dhopa means a suspicion. Like, he has a dhopa about you. He thinks you swept the money yesterday from his room, you know.

He's got dhopa. And it also means a superstition, like don't walk under a ladder as a dhopa. And sona nepa is a really, really difficult logical term that means the original problem still remains or something like that.

Sona nepa means nothing's changed. It's still there. Sona nepa.

So the original dhopa we had about this, our uncertainty or our question, sona nepa, I don't think you'll find it in any dictionary. Sona nepa means like, the problem is still there. Still stands is really good.

I like that. Okay. Okay.

Okay. You did so in hopes of bringing that with you. Problem still stands?

Yeah. Well, we're going to see why. Hang on.

The whole question of whether... Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. Remember? Because we said, Yeah, Buddhists do take their birth from Bodhisattvas, but that doesn't mean that Bodhisattvas can't take their birth from Buddhas.

Oh no, sorry, the opposite. You can say that. I'm going to stick to that.

Okay. Okay. Okay, ready?

One, two, three. GEN ME DE CHANG GYI SEM PA TE RANG LA CHOD DONG PAS THUB PA WANG PO LE DRUM PA LA DENG KA GYIN PA YIN KYI THUB PA WANG PO LE DRUM PA LA DENG KA GYIN PA MA YIN PAS THUB PA WANG PO LE CHANG SEM LE DRUM PA LA DENG KA GYIN PA YIN PAS Okay.

[Speaker 2]
GEN ME DE Okay, does that make sense?

[Speaker 1]
It's kind of circular. Yeah, it's not... It doesn't...

It's not logical. As it stands, it's not logical. What I should say here is, we never considered that they took their birth from the Lords of the Abel, RANG DANG RGYU GCIG DU RGYUR PA who are them in their previous life.

You see what I mean? That's what he wants to say. You see what I mean?

Got it? Look, when we said bodhisattvas come from Buddhas, when we agreed that bodhisattvas come from Buddhas, all we meant was that Buddhas teach them and then they get bodhichitta and they become bodhisattvas. We never meant to say that first you're a Buddha and then you turn into a bodhisattva.

You see what I mean? That's all he's saying. Okay.

So there's no problem. We didn't get in trouble when we admitted that. Since we didn't say that bodhisattva comes from having been a Buddha previously, then it's no problem to say that Buddhas also come from bodhisattvas.

[Speaker 2]
So why do we...

[Speaker 1]
I don't know. It takes away sort of fun of it. I don't know.

You leave it a little controversial. I mean Rinpoche wouldn't fix everything for us. You leave it a little...

You don't solve your students' problems. You make them go home wondering. Rinpoche would always say, what?

Cook it. Cook it. You know?

Like you desperately wanted him to resolve it for you. And he's like, no. You go home and worry about it.

All right? Okay. Like that.

It's good for your mind. And the monastic textbooks are written that way. They're written to force you to keep thinking.

They never help you. They never finish anything. They never give you the answer.

It's always like... You always have to struggle. And it's good for you.

It's like in the debate ground. There's never a conclusion. Ready?

One, two, three. THUG PAS DBANG PO BYANG SEM LAS DRUM PA LUNG GYIS DRUB PA YIN TE GO YIN CHOG SRED PAS DO RE Okay. RE at the end of a sentence must be...

PHAM. Okay? It can't be...

Karma. It's probably not the word. They're the same word.

Right? Same spelling. Okay?

Mmm... Okay, so he did the RIG PAS DRUB PA. Now he's going to do LUNG GYIS DRUB PA, right?

What's that mean? Yeah, he used... He used logic first.

He proved it by logic first. It's not contradictory that Bodhisattvas can't... It's not a contradiction that Bodhisattvas can come from Buddhas if Buddhas come from Bodhisattvas.

Okay? That's not a contradiction. Now he's going to use AGAMA.

Scriptural authority. Okay? Mmm...

And again, in a real debate, you can only use such scriptural authority as both parties agree to. You know? So when you're debating in America, you pretty much can't use scriptural authority.

You see what I mean? Not much. But in the monastery, you can use...

It just depends on where you're at, you know? If you're in your particular college, you can't use another college's scriptures. If you're in your particular university, you can't use another university's scriptures.

If you're in a particular major monastery, you can't use another major monastery's scriptures. If a bumbo comes to debate with you, you can't use Jetsun Kappa, and you can't use a sutra. A bumbo.

Like we had in the winter debate, we had some bumbos come. These are the shamans from old Tibet. These are the religion before Buddhism.

And they wear these blue tops to just sort of say we're different, and they don't accept scriptural authority unless it's spoken by Sangye Hsinchu. You know, they're like ancient masters, you know? So then you have to confine your argument to logic.

There's no scripture that you both agree to. I was there the first few years they came, and they weren't really trained yet, but I think they got better now. Because their tradition was very badly damaged when Tibet was lost.

Particular traditions were really badly damaged. Sakyas were badly damaged, and the bumbos were really damaged. And the Kagyas were not so badly damaged, because they were already in East Tibet.

So, you know, it's like that. The Lhukpas were like 50-50. Keshava?

Yeah. When you translated the part about... I remember there was a paragraph a few pages back about recouping and loan pay.

Yeah. And there was a sentence, and there was a bit of Tibetan in there that when we were hypertexting it, it seemed like we couldn't find where you translated it. Do you want to go back there?

Is it okay, or should we... I don't mind. Okay.

Let me mark where we are. Okay. Okay.

Probably it included the word authority. The section that we couldn't figure out was rikpa druppe, rikpa druppe tsula. Rikpe or rikpa?

[Speaker 2]
Rikpa.

[Speaker 1]
Druppe tsula?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Ingra.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, okay, thank you. Yeah, yeah. That one right there?

Yeah. Rikpe. Oh, we did translate it.

Yeah. I'm sorry. Okay.

No, but some people are sending me nice suggestions, like Alistair sent me a few good corrections. Just words I missed when I was translating. That's why it's good to have you all here.

Okay. You ready? One, two, three.

Asum dita te perna dawa ce pala cak sawa ta nyawa lani mayi na He's speaking to somebody named Asum. It'd be nice to have the Sanskrit, since it's a sutra, right? Well, actually, I'll just stick to the English.

Is there a better way to do this?

[Speaker 2]
Okay. No, it doesn't do it on both sides. You have to do it...

[Speaker 1]
This is a weird... Dawa ce pala means the moon on the third or fourth day of its waxing. There's no English word, right?

[Speaker 2]
Waxing moon.

[Speaker 1]
To the moon, which has just begun to wax.

[Speaker 2]
You'll be waxy wax.

[Speaker 1]
Then I'm funny.

[Speaker 2]
It's a sutra, right?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. He's quoting a sutra. Why did he say this?

We go to Bodhisattvas who are still on the path, Yeah. We honor the cause of the full moon, which is the moon just starting to wax. So, the whole point of this whole first page has been, which we've been stuck in for a year now, is, you know, you honor the cause of an enlightened being more than the enlightened being.

So, the cause of an enlightened being is a Bodhisattva, and the cause of a Bodhisattva is Yeah. Love, knowledge, and compassion, basically. And then which one is the root of them all?

Compassion. So, if you saw a person at the grocery store being compassionate, better to honor them than to go to a temple and bow down to some image. Because they're the cause that makes the image.

So, if you see someone being nice to someone else in the line at the grocery store, to mentally honor them more than you would a piece of wood, you see, or even representing the finished product. It's like somehow a higher practice, you see. It's kind of cool.

Okay. Here we go. One, two, three.

Verso. So, Deshin Shekpa is good because you get a low tone and a high tone, right? Deshin Shekpa.

Say, Deshin Shekpa. Deshin Shekpa. Deshin Shekpa.

Okay, good, yeah. Why did this guy change it from Yi to Yi? Yi to Yi.

Okay, the S makes it long, right? Yi. The S drops off, and in linguistic compensation, it lengthens.

Yi. But he said, no, it's not Yi, it's Yi.

[Speaker 2]
So it's not an instrumental?

[Speaker 1]
It's not an instrumental. It's Yi, which means... It's K-Y-I, after Va.

Yeah, it's just possessive, right? And then, 0.01% of the time, it's disjunctive. Ba.

Okay, here it's Ba. So not only did they misspell it, but even if you spelled it right, it would be the weirdest one you ever had. Okay?

So it's hard. This one's hard. I wonder if we could find it.

Let's see if anyone else ever used this quotation. Kangyur Tengyur Simbhum. Kangyur.

Kangyur. It's a sutra. Okay.

But ACIP hasn't finished much of the Kangyur. So you're probably more likely to... It's not much there, okay?

Let's try in the Tengyur. Would a sutra be in the Tengyur? If it was quoted.

If somebody had quoted it, right? Oh. Oh, that's nice.

There it is right there. Do you see where the arrow is? But it's Chak Chayi.

What's the difference between that and Chayi? Huh? No difference at all.

No difference at all. It's just beat. If you need meter, you break it off.

Chayi. Instead of Chayi. If you need two beats for your meter, use Chayi.

It's the same thing. Okay? Very confusing.

Alright. Okay, here we go. So we're going to correct it.

Now we can correct it, right? We got the photos today by email of the opening of the input center in Varanasi. And they're having this party, and they're breaking coconuts, and the computers are all sitting there.

It's really cool. And these pujaris are there. It's really cool.

So they're going to start typing the text that you guys are scanning, the Sanskrit text that you guys are scanning. On Tuesdays and Thursdays, people are scanning stuff. So those are like the only 50 Buddhist texts that are left from 5000 that were burned when the Mughals attacked India.

So they're going to be inputting them. This is tough. He's going to say, those who have faith in me should bow down to Bodhisattvas and not in the same way to Buddhists.

He doesn't say rather than Buddhists. So how to say that? Because that would be almost...

What do you call it? Yeah, it'd be like sacrilegious to say that. He's not saying you should bow down to Bodhisattvas and not to Buddhists.

He's saying you should bow down to Bodhisattvas, kindness, and not bow down to Buddhists in that particular way. You see what I mean? Say again?

There's ways to say that that he didn't use, so you wouldn't do that. What he specifically said was they bow down to Bodhisattvas, but they don't bow down to Buddhists in that same way.

[Speaker 2]
Say again?

[Speaker 1]
Let me think about that. That's the idea.

[Speaker 2]
I like that.

[Speaker 1]
Well, I don't know. It just seemed to flow better. I think with that kind of motivation, you bow down to a Bodhisattva cognizant of the fact that the love in them is what creates a Buddha, keeping that in mind.

But if you wanted to choose really the highest object in the world, I think you'd have to bow down to a Buddha.

[Speaker 2]
Is that the motivation?

[Speaker 1]
Well, he said deta, which means in that particular way. Okay. Let's go.

One, two, three. Why? Why?

Why the hell? You know what I mean? Chichi.

When do we say that? Yin-ba-ta. Yin-ba-ta.

Chichi. You must be saying that. Chichi.

Chichi means why for. You know, who said that? I didn't say that.

Okay. Are you telling me that? Chichi.

What if you agree? Are you telling me that? De.

Yeah, I am. Okay, so de means I am telling you that. Chichi means who said that?

Which means I didn't say that, right? But it's interesting to see it's two and a half thousand years old. See, Buddha is saying it.

Lord Buddha is saying, Chichi. Why is that? You translate it.

I'll give you the subject of the sentence. It's Yeah, because Buddha comes from Bodhisattva. Okay?

Got it? Okay. And why is that?

I do that sometimes and they just freak out. Yeah, I know. I know.

I tried. But I have a form. I'll write a macro or something.

I'm just lazy. And why is that? Because Buddha comes from Bodhisattva and he's going to say and one, two, three Okay?

Still debating. He's still debating. He can't stop.

He's just We had an abbot like that and and he couldn't he'd be in a debate and he's supposed to sit up on the throne and we're supposed to debate and he just couldn't stand it and he'd just jump off the throne and run down and start screaming questions, you know? And we're like, go sit on the throne like we're debating, you know? And he's like, no, no, you know?

And, you know and he couldn't talk to him without him going like this to you all the time, you know?

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
What's that?

[Speaker 2]
Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. This is pretty much a scriptural source for I mean, the whole beginning of the book by Master Chandrakirti. Right?

It's kind of interesting. He's copped it from a book that was written a thousand years before. Yeah.

Kunchatsepa. Ratnakuta.

[Speaker 2]
Where's the debate in that sentence?

[Speaker 1]
That's why I pulled it out all the way back. That's true.

[Speaker 2]
And this is true because Yeah, it sort of is.

[Speaker 1]
But it's more clear, right? That's good. Who said that?

Yeah, hi. Yeah, okay. One, two, three.

How do you pronounce this one here? You reverse the H and the L, right? And it's not It's Okay, it's not It's Yeah, okay.

This one? Say ngak. What's ngak mean?

Lu ngak yi sum. Body, speech, and mind. It means speech.

Ngak. Like Ngawang Darge. Ngawang means Lord of the Spoken Word.

Then ngak Ngak means mantra or tantra. Secret teachings. But with a bow, with a B prefix letter, it changes everything.

It's still pronounced ngak, but it means something else. Recommended. Or praised.

Okay. Okay. What's the le here?

Than. With a A. Than.

Rarely. So now you have a problem with le. It already had two weird meanings.

Which was Karma and from. And now it means more than. Higher than.

So those are three meanings you'll have to struggle with. You know. Tibetan is a is a They call it dropeke.

It's the language of sheepherders. And it should never have been a high philosophical language. But somehow it turned out just right.

You know. I mean it worked. It survived.

And Chinese was already highly evolved. And when they translated to Buddhism into Chinese, they used very highly sophisticated technical terms that already existed. And then somehow that got lost.

And then somehow the the sheepherders language survived. You know. It's a weird thing.

There must be a reason. I don't know. Maybe sophisticated language changes.

Well I mean the meanings got there's a very sophisticated connotation of a word in 1990. And then by 2050 it slurred, it slided a little bit to something else. But cow always means cow.

That's the power of the New Testament. No. That's the power of the New Testament.

You know. Somebody asked me, oh you studied New Testament in Greek. Did it help a lot?

I said no. Because you know it's just cows and and he's not talking about he's using parables. So it's not like the meaning is going to slide.

The connotation is not going to slide. But if you have things like emptiness or you know then the meaning it will slide if there's not living people to explain it. You see what I mean?

But if it's just some old Tibetan word for an empty sheepskin container that's not going to change. So somehow the idea survived in Tibetan better even though the language was much less maybe because the language was much less sophisticated. It's a weird thing.

You can debate it. I don't know. It's a weird thing.

Anyway it works. But the problem is you have words like lay that have three totally different meanings and then okay Yeah He's good. It's a good comment.

There's no Tibetan for it. I just thought it would go better. I think it's assumed.

Chehlak No Chehlak means infinitely higher. We have that che when we were talking about infinitely long ago. Same che.

You're right, Anthony. I was wondering if anybody was going to catch it. He's in Australia.

He's really good. Okay I think he gets up in the morning. The next morning.

It's tomorrow morning for him. Yeah, he has the switch off button ready when his boss walks in here. Okay Wow I'm going to change this one.

Okay, here we go. One, two, three Okay And this is true. So there's a reason why you would praise bodhisattvas more than buddhas.

Okay, why? Well, first of all, if someone comes up and says you should bow down to mentally you should bow down more to a lady who's kind to someone else in the line at the grocery store than you should honor one of these statues. Right?

Then that's going to make you think. Why did they say that? Why did the teacher say that?

And then it makes you appreciate the fact that that's where they come from. It's the kindness in the grocery store line that's where buddhas come from. So it makes you appreciate that.

If some lama comes up and says stop bowing down to these images. Just watch the lady in the grocery store who's nice to somebody else. That's more important.

Then it makes you think why did he say that? You see what I mean? So that's one reason to bow down first to a bodhisattva.

Who bowed down first to a bodhisattva? Master Chandrakirti at the beginning of entering the Middle Way which is the book that we're studying. Okay Alright Uh One Two Three Okay Uh If you say man the lady in the grocery store is so cool you know then indirectly you're praising what she will become by doing that.

You see what I mean? Right? Okay Sorry?

I think so. That's a big buddhist thing, right? That's such a big buddhist thing.

You know you can't change things in the moment. You have to work on the causes and then reap the crops later. Yeah Yeah Okay Uh One Two Three What's men?

Men Medicine Menla? Yeah, yeah Men Haitong Menla Okay The medicine buddha, right? Mengyi Mengyi Gyushi Mengyi Gyushi The very famous four medical tantras.

We started translating the other day with Aura and then Jamie walks in. He's got his hands he's got all these rare medical texts from some place. These illustrated handwritten medical texts.

He just walks in in the very five minutes that we're studying the medical tantras from medical school, right? So anyway Uh So Mengyi Do you know nyuku? Nyuku is a Tibetan word for a pen.

Why? It refers to a bamboo piece of small piece of bamboo. It's called nyuku.

So pens came to be called nyukus. Okay Jambo is the same jam as in jambayam. Yeah, gentle or soft.

Loma means the leaves of a plant. Um So Cheday Cheday means I don't know how to say take care of something in a very nice way. Cheday Cherish is Yeah Cherish is good.

Like like special care. You'll see why. And then kyang means to The idea is when you planted a plant and it's just very young and men means like an herb like a very fragile herb in the first few days after it opens after the seed opens then you can't you have to take special care with the with the leaves.

You can't like crush the leaves or hurt the leaves. You have to like kyang means to nurture Nurture Nurture Yeah Fragile, I like that. Of the newborn sprout Fresh sprout Fresh sprout Baby sprout Huh?

Seedling

[Speaker 2]
Oh, ok

[Speaker 1]
Of a medicinal herb

[Speaker 2]
Ok Ok Ok

[Speaker 1]
I'm sorry Here it means a sprout Here it means a sprout It can mean sprout also It can mean a sprout also It can mean just something that just popped up And then at that moment in that week you have to be very You can't like over water the plant or you can't like kick it around or you know After it gets a little strong you can you can abuse it but in the in the first few days you have to take special care right? So So we have to take special care of bodhisattvas because they are in what do you call it?

They are It sounds like incumbent but it's not that They are There's a word that starts with I-N They are What's that word? In About to happen They are buddhas about to happen Incipient They are incipient buddhas So you have to like take care of them If you meet a bodhisattva you have to I mean in one way you want to What do you say so far? You praise them By praising them you praise the result That was the second one right?

The first one is Oh you meant to understand how bodhisattvas are the cause Now this one is Look You have to take care The cause is a fragile thing And once somebody gets a little bodhicitta you have to like help them out to keep it Because at that stage it's still fragile Everything is still fragile Later on when they are strong in that they won't change But you have to take special care in the early days in the bodhisattva days Okay? That's another reason He's got another reason too This is misspelled and I'm just going to correct it Okay One Two Three It's good Somebody came from New York last week and and they were in the debate ground and I could see the difference Why?

It was the angle It's like You know and then the the people who have been here are like You know like that You know Okay So you got to get it back there okay Like if you hit a few people behind you it's good Alright It stretches your lung meridian which makes your mind better because the metal and the fire have this connection How do you want to say this? He's going to say If If If you praise a bodhisattva more than a Buddha Right? Then Nyantas and Rangsanges who are sitting there will get impressed Then they'll want to go on the bodhisattva track See what I mean?

So ka jang Ka means mouth or face Jang means to pull But he's saying the purpose of doing that is to get the those lower people to ka jang them up to the bodhisattva path So how do you want to translate ka jang? I don't know It's kind of like Sometimes they say na jang It's like the way you lead a cow There's a word for that It's more It's more animal than guide It's almost like pull them

[Speaker 2]
along Lure

[Speaker 1]
Lure has connotation of deceit It's like Drag them I like drag them up I like that Finally there's an additional purpose It's a little bit colloquial So drag is okay And finally there's additional purpose of

[Speaker 2]
to drag Yeah, dragging is

[Speaker 1]
too far away from up, right? Yeah, how do we fix it?

[Speaker 2]
Fun in regards to the self-made ones I think it works Yeah, I think it works Between Buddhas?

[Speaker 1]
Or you could say dragging up to the greater way the listeners Is that okay?

[Speaker 2]
Okay How's that?

[Speaker 1]
Why did I translate it as have appeared in the retina and not are in the retina? There was some debate before that they couldn't be in the retina, right? Something We didn't resolve it very well Okay I think we have one more Okay, let's do this last line here The guy's coming up with a question It's good to leave with a question, right?

One, two, three Arhats, right? People of reached nirvana are produced by Buddhas And you've described how Buddhas are produced by bodhisattvas And you've described how bodhisattvas are produced by what the Buddha say, okay? What's his problem?

I don't know. Let's see. It's probably not too bad.

Oh, I see. Okay. Let's read it together.

One, two, three. I'm not quite sure. Let me see.

Oh, okay. I think it's missing some words. I think it's missing some words.

How would we check? Yeah, go to the scan. Go to the original manuscript.

So, scan, scan. Why don't we just work from scans?

[Speaker 2]
You can't search them.

[Speaker 1]
You can't search them. Okay? Like, if you have to hold the whole thing scanned, you have to hold the whole thing scanned, and you want to find one quote, you still have to look at every single page.

You can't search a scan. Not now. I mean, there will be developed optical character recognition of scans, right?

But that will always be a problem because it was car, and every letter is shaped differently from every other letter of the same letter. Okay? We tried.

Bell Labs helped us, and we worked on it for a long time. And it got pretty good, but it still, it takes so much time to correct it, it's better to have three people type it. So, anyway.

What page are we on? You guys know? Is it 13?

Here's where the page number is on a Tibetan text. You see the little hand? And they're only on the front side and not on the back side.

So, when you scan it, there's another problem. They get separated. It's like every other page in a book doesn't have a number on it.

You see what I mean? Okay. Is it 13A, 13B?

It's 13B. 13B? Okay, here we are.

I'll blow it up, okay? Oops. How do you do that?

Like this? It's right here, okay? Gam dir tu bwang le, jung su ngu suk de ne, chang sem jung su, ngu su mik tenpo gyur chen chi yin she na.

Okay? And, you know, later you have to learn to read from a manuscript, which is really a mess, okay? But, it's not missing anything, okay?

But, here's what it means. Except that manuscript came from where? Handwritten in a refugee camp.

So, you know. And we've never found the block. We've never found the surviving block print.

So, you don't know for sure, okay? But, that's all we know now. So, they, you know, in the original verse, they went to this convoluted thing that said, what is the original verse?

Yeah. Do you know? Off the top of your head?

Yeah. So, the two lower, two lower track people are born from Buddhas, then? And Buddhas are born from Bodhisattvas.

And Bodhisattvas are born from these three causes. But, why didn't he say Bodhisattvas are born from Buddhas? You know, you've been struggling, Kedruta Madhagiri, all this time to prove that not only are, what?

Buddhas born from Bodhisattvas, but Bodhisattvas are also born from Buddhas, right? We've been struggling to say that. Not only are Buddhas born from, sorry, not only are Buddhas born from Bodhisattvas, but Bodhisattvas are also born from Buddhas.

But Master Chetakirti never said that. That's a problem. He never said that.

He never said Bodhisattvas come from Buddhas, directly, right? Like, he starts out, he says, lower track people, lower nirvana people are born from Buddhas. And if Buddhas are born from Bodhisattvas, then Bodhisattvas are born from kindness.

But he never says that Bodhisattvas come from Buddhas. You see, he never says that. So the guy says, why didn't he say that?

It seems like a problem. You've been struggling to say that. It's not contradictory to say that Buddhas come from Bodhisattvas in the way that Bodhisattvas come from Buddhas.

But he never said that Bodhisattvas come from Buddhas. Did he? Okay, so it's a good question.

So we're going to find out later. Right, okay. I think, you know, when you translate, it's good at the end to sit and take a peace.

Like I like this one here. You take a peace and you kind of take it home with you. You know, you don't just close the book and go.

You know, like they'll take half an hour in the monastery to wrap the scripture. The teacher will just very slowly wrap the scripture. And you're meant to sit there and like cherish one idea that you got out of the class.

And I like this one in particular. I mean, the reason to bow down to the lady in the grocery store rather than an image, a wooden image, is also to indicate that we have to take care of whatever fragile seeds you have of kindness. They need more attention than the images in the temples do.

You see, I mean, it's like a very beautiful statement. It's like, look, A, they're just wood, you know. B, they already got there.

You don't have to worry about them. But this tiny little kindness that you've been able to develop that's so fragile that you get angry and then 30 seconds later it turns into hatred, right? It's so fragile.

If you bow down to that first, then you're kind of saying, look, you have to pay attention to that kindness. You have to take care of that kindness and put your mind on that kindness and worry about that kindness and don't worry about their kindness. Like, they took care of everything.

They're all done, you know. But the kindness in your own mind is very fragile. And so it makes sense before you write a great book on emptiness that you bow down to just the kindness of the lady in the grocery store.

Why? Because it's so fragile. You have to take good care of it.

You have to think about it more than you have to think about their kindness, right? Okay? All right.

So take that home. Okay, thanks. Oh, I'd like to especially welcome Rebecca and her father.

Thank you for coming so far. And this is like a very confusing language class, so I hope it's okay. We're all confused.

Thank you for coming.