Вордсмит — Книга 2: Трудные места школы «Ум только», занятие 53

[Speaker 2]
Oh, I've streamed. There we go. Welcome back everybody.

[Speaker 1]
Another great afternoon, evening, morning, whatever it is for you wherever you are. Our class with word. And you just had two classes with word.

Hopefully. Hopefully. Great job word.

Everybody's learning. I think. Maybe anybody must be my volume.

Now, can you hear me. Yes. Yes.

Yes, I thought everyone was speaking quietly. Everyone is stuck on mute.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. He won't wake Amelie. I have to check anyway.

[Speaker 1]
How are you doing Mr. Nicholas. All right, thanks. I've been going a bit early this term.

Yay. Yay. What's that before to definitely definitely before to well not last night.

But in general. Now I didn't stay up till two. But I hear gosh a Michael.

Hi, my camera refuses to open. Hmm. Let's try this one.

[Speaker 2]
Maybe you're so on.

[Speaker 1]
You're scared from looking at me.

[Speaker 2]
No, look at that handsome tell up.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you're gonna perk us all up in the morning where we'd be so sad. Good to see you. Anything else Nicholas.

No, sir. I think we're ready to ready to get started. Okay handsome, I mean, word.

That's good. Am I ready to get started. Mostly.

Okay, so we're going to do the homework. Hopefully it's understandable. Yeah, I was gonna say.

I'll tell it. You say palpable palatable like glacial palatable palatable that's the one I was saying palatable but I was like that's from my Tibetan class that's different palatable palatable palatable palatable but I'm like nope that's massage.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
What two types of beings. What's it then.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
I don't understand. There's a lot of row. Oh, my brain.

Okay, fair enough you get up at four in the morning, I mean you started it for. Yeah, you can't get up at four to start it for Nick. I've tried, I can do it.

Okay, here we go. What, what two types of being are we discussing in the text currently. How are they the same, how are they different.

What is their significance in our discussion regarding the foundation consciousness. Tibetan for the names of these beings. What, what are we talking, I mean what are we talking about, period.

[Speaker 3]
I mean, that's got it in the chat of course.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, oh there he goes.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you're right Oscar, what are they called. Yeah, that's their more literal. What's their like title a fancy.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, you're right, Oscar.

[Speaker 1]
And you're right. You can put it a little longer to what if you if you added some syllables to it, what would it be. What's simple short for.

Yeah, that's all. Yeah, that's good. That's the name.

Why are what are the other kind of what's the other kind of being we're talking about. Gotcha. Exactly.

It's a kind of jump but he doesn't really say that explicitly but once more returners. No, that was a different text. Yeah, it was.

Nice try. What. Yeah, it doesn't really say it explicitly guess guess I'll explain it.

Thankfully, so I understand it somewhat, but take men. Heck man yeah but it's clock Jay right again like before. We have to go there.

Well, it has to be because once you're hot maven. Oh, you're right. Yeah, I guess they wouldn't be discussing them.

We discussed them soon. But yeah, so anyway. Yeah.

Okay. And how are they the same what's similar about them that makes them were the puts them in this part of the discussion. Nice question.

Thank you.

[Speaker 3]
This is the idea that our refrigerator is empty.

[Speaker 1]
And if it's empty, how could you have a foundation consciousness. That's true. But what, why is there, why is their refrigerator empty.

They don't have Instagram. I john got it in the chat. Joshua was close.

Yeah, they reached nirvana once you hit it at eighth level bodhisattva on up right yenche is a, the Mahayana equivalent of our hearts. Right. So, which means what so what they reach nirvana.

What's the significance. There's no more seeds, but yeah because the everything that's in the country is affected by the other consciousness, then, right. So if they reach nirvana, they wouldn't have anything else that's affected by negative consciousness, so there could be the country is considered bad.

Yeah, or negative, or so once you reach nirvana means you're not supposed to have any bad things in your life. So how, if you have no bad things in your life. What do you still have a cushy.

That's, that's the discussion.

[Speaker 2]
Right.

[Speaker 1]
And what's the difference between a drop Chumba and one talk. Hmm. That's easy ones a bodhisattva.

Yeah, yeah, I know. Rob's like, is that even a question. Oh, is there.

Is that the answer. That is the answer. What's the same about them I mean they've watched nirvana.

They both reached nirvana but what haven't they both reached. Buddha hood. Yeah, the fifth path on their respective track.

Right. Oh, because they're really okay.

[Speaker 2]
Yep, exactly. They haven't currently consider them to both have refrigerators, even though they've cleaned out their whatever the ancient ketchup packets from takeout.

[Speaker 1]
I discussed that today I think.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
So far been yes they still have fridges. Good analogy, Ben. Really true I mean yeah.

Ignore ignore ignore.

[Speaker 2]
Is that restaurant closed down a long time ago.

[Speaker 1]
What is the argument that's brought up behind these things not having a mind at all. It's pretty simple I mean it's not.

[Speaker 2]
I mean they still have experiences. Yeah, they still, yeah, they still have good and good stuff happened to them so they got to have that's got to come out of something, anything happening to them right. Mostly, mostly good stuff I would hope for them.

[Speaker 1]
I mean for them. Yeah. The argument against right.

Yeah, so they wouldn't have a mind at all. Yeah. Behind Yeah.

It is behind right. Yeah, what's behind that I don't know. I like to see a cast of goods comment, their fridges are unplugged.

Good idea when you're trying to meditate sometimes. I know it just kicks on you don't notice it when you're walking around. Okay.

And you forget to plug it back in.

[Speaker 2]
That's a problem.

[Speaker 1]
Lost some vegetables that way. What are our three basic choices when we are looking for something to be labeled as mind. Wow, Roxanna.

What did you already have that on your clipboard. The various type areas. Wow.

[Speaker 2]
Please send you some dictation tapes that we're describing.

[Speaker 1]
Don't she's busy she's got enough to do. Okay. Mental Consciousness negative consciousness and the foundation consciousness.

Oh wait. Yeah, you're right Roxanna you were too early I forgot what I put. These are the three basic choices.

And what Roxanna put is the Tibetan code words for them. Yeah. Right here.

Oh, Mr word I'm confused about this and it came up yesterday, the, I thought the first of these three options was the first six, and not just yuki number shampoo but the button, make me know I may not mention them. Right. Yeah, I heard someone say that.

Yeah. I think it's six, I think, no I think Nam she is the sixth. Yeah, six, not the six.

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay.

Yeah. And then, you know, the mind mind mind is called consciousness here and consciousness is called something like that. Okay, what's empty loop.

Wow, that's a good question. I'm wondering. You can misspell it as symbol.

It's not so good. Exactly. I'm just sitting in six.

Yeah, but what do you think, yeah, I mean you're right I john mind but that's literally what is third body of mine. What does it refer I john the three forms of mind. No, this is third.

What's the yeah you're right what's the third form of mind in this case, venerable.

[Speaker 2]
So, to that.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. It's foundation consciousness though.

[Speaker 2]
Which in this at this moment we're calling Chita or Sam.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, exactly.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Um, and then this Roxanne already elucidated but what Sam in this case, foundation.

[Speaker 2]
Right.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah foundation consciousness and then what's the thoughts. Correct. And then you need something and then, yeah.

Yeah, literally thoughts but refers to the new knee. And then I'm sheep number six. Six, I should flip my consciousness.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, gotcha.

[Speaker 1]
What I should put for here. I mean that's, or maybe a semi colon. Shouldn't it be the six consciousnesses.

I don't know. And the orders messed up I'll fix it or something. Something.

There's not many new terms okay so I have to have been at this for a year.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, we've got to look into this.

[Speaker 1]
Yay. Good job. Perfect.

Yes. Examine calculate, we have to examine calculate. Yeah, that's a good one.

Examine further. Yeah, good. Okay, thank you everyone.

Okay now our translation as it's as it is. Yeah, good. I'm going to add one thing here.

Okay. 454 is examining a first option. 455 is examining a second object option.

Oh, I'm going to give you the two options. Okay. Okay.

Somebody said, we're talking about the beliefs of the sutra school. That's option number one. And somebody else says, we're talking about people on the lower two tracks, listeners and self made Buddhists.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember. Yeah, so those are the two options and it took me a while to figure that out. So, sorry, let's go back to you guys.

Yeah, so if it's the Sutras. Okay, that's what we got to remember on 454. If it's, and that's an excellent mistake in the carving right.

Oh, that is a crazy mistake. Yeah. So first of all, if you say it's the Sutras, who have these ideas about foundation consciousness disappearing or dropping out, right?

Mm hmm. MI RIGS TE, BCUG THAMS MANG BA DE NYID Did it say Sutras or was it talking about... I think it said, well, it said...

By Bhajika also, yeah. Okay, so if you say it's the two lower schools who have these beliefs about foundation consciousness disappearing, what's your answer? It can't be them because...

They don't even believe in that. Yeah, they don't even have the discussion. They don't worry about what happens to kunshi, because they don't believe in kunshi.

Yeah. Okay. All right, so that's easy.

That's easy. Hold on, let me turn my notes. Then somebody else said, no, we're talking about the guys on the two lower tracks.

Should we read the Tibetan again? Yeah, you should pick on somebody. I already did this morning.

Pick on one of your students, it's more fun. Thank you very much for getting up so early. You're a true Bodhisattva.

I don't know about that, but thanks. Probably, Sushinna just woke you up anyway. Yeah, she wakes up early.

Hags, you want to read this? Yeah, sure. All right, bro.

So am I going Dangpo Nammi instead of Dangpo Nam? Yeah, do this. Okay.

Dangpo Nammi. Rikutei, jutei, drawa? Mawa.

Oh, mawa. Mawa. Mawa de ni nam she sop trup le shempei, or shempa?

Shempei. Good. Nam she ke kame.

Okay, you had it. Kame lempe chir gro. Nice.

Good. So we did that. Now read this one too.

Yeah, sure. Okay. Nipayang mi rungtei.

Deitaki kunshi. Jukdok. Good.

Jukdok. Ten lei. Lap.

Ten la? Mm-hmm. Lap.

Lap. If it was a lei, what would that be? You would put an S on it more like.

Gotcha. And sometimes a D, but lei long would be an S. Bepa?

Bepe? Yep. Nam she.

Nam she. Nam she. Nam she.

Sepa? Sepa? Yep.

Ten guna deyang nepa mayin no. Nice. Yeah, good.

By the way, Word also has a class before four o'clock. She's, I don't know, she's really strong, like she's already sitting up like that. That's unusual.

Yeah, she's standing up too, she's standing up with help. Yeah, next week she's gonna run the 500 meters, right? Okay, so what was the second option?

The second option is the two lower... Two lower tracks, yeah, listeners and the self-made Buddhists. By the way, oftentimes when you talk about the two lower tracks, you're talking about the two lower track arhats.

And they don't say that, they just say ranggyel and nyentu and ranggyel. And oftentimes that refers to those people on the fifth path of the two lower tracks. But they don't tell you that.

And okay, so yeah, jung dok means the operation of the kunshi, which is kind of like sadang, what's that? Sadang? Yeah, or jiyang.

Yeah, jung dok is like start, stop, so it's like means going, like jiyang means wait. Yeah, it's one of those words that's created by the two opposites. Oh, I see, yeah, yeah, yeah, jung dok.

Sadang, hard, soft. Oh, hot, cold. Hot, cold.

Yeah, which means temperature. So you create these abstract nouns by combining two pieces. Rinpoche?

Yeah, which is length or measurement, yeah. So the operation of the kunshi. Navshak said, but this ten gos is tricky.

It says if you believe that's what they believe, if you're saying that this is what they believe about the operation of the kunshi, you would have to show us a presentation in scripture or something like that. By them. If you're saying that this is what they believe about how the kunshi operates and shuts down, for example, then you better show it to us.

But you can't because we don't see any such presentation. NYES PA MA YIN NO means we don't find any such presentation. By the way, if you think about it, Word, and I was just thinking about it, they are silent, I don't know, partners.

We always talk about them, but you never hear listeners and self-made Buddhas stand up and give their presentation. I know. We're always saying stuff about them, usually derogatory.

I can't recall any time when they got up and said something. They must have worked really hard, actually. They reached nirvana.

Yeah, extremely. Your idea about how the foundation consciousness shuts down at the end, it cannot be referring to the two lower schools, because they don't even talk about it, because they don't believe in it. And it cannot be referring to the two lower tracks, because they never wrote anything about that, and you can't find it.

Yeah. Okay. And now the natural question that all of our students are asking right now, burning in their mind, starts the next section.

[Speaker 2]
Also, wouldn't we consider most Abhidharma and Satrāntika presentations to essentially be presentations from listeners and self-made Buddhas?

[Speaker 1]
I think you could say that, yeah. I think you could say that, yeah. Would they agree that they are lower?

I don't know. Okay. They want to say Theravāda, right?

Would they agree that they're not trying to be Buddhas, though?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, maybe. Maybe that's only Buddhas get to be Buddhas.

[Speaker 1]
There's an interesting section, I think in the sixth or seventh chapter of the Abhidharma, about bodhisattvas, and that's going to be fun to talk about. Okay. Who wants to read this?

Don't ask dad, nobody will answer. Svetlana, you want to read?

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Okay, wait, here's a pop quiz, Svetlana. Are you ready?

Uh-oh.

[Speaker 3]
This punctuation... What is this? It's like an ending mark, like a period.

Yay!

[Speaker 1]
I think he's gonna send you $100, but I'm not sure. I don't have anything else, sorry. Good job.

Okay. Dan? Oh, well, translate.

Okay, well then. You may ask, whose system are we talking about? Yeah, the only place that you can get an extensive presentation on how the kunshi behaves and how it ends, exactly, is from the classical texts of the deep practitioners.

Good, yep. Yeah. Good.

That's nice, yep. And then last, someone else to torture.

[Speaker 2]
Venerable Khading, you want to do it? Yes, sir. I'm sorry, I wasn't able to get up early yet with you in the mornings.

[Speaker 1]
Don't bother, okay? Don't hurt yourself.

[Speaker 2]
Well, hurt myself now.

[Speaker 1]
I think Diamond Mountain doesn't have electricity in the early morning. Yeah, it's solar. The sun's not up yet, don't worry.

Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Good, thank you. Oh, I just think he's just saying in the, according to the Mahayana, the Hinayana guys can sepa their shidip, separ. End their obstacles omniscient?

Well, here, the separ is adverbial. So, what's it mean? Is endable?

Yeah, but they can pangba separ. They can eliminate it eventually? They can eliminate it to the last drop.

Oh, ultimately? To the last trace.

[Speaker 2]
Exhaustively.

[Speaker 1]
Exhaustively, exactly, yeah. Yeah, so, by the way, this is somebody else proposing something. The whole line is somebody else proposing something.

So, this is Kachig, or? Yeah, the whole thing is a Kachig. Ah, so according to you guys then, according to you guys, according to the Mahayana, it is possible for the Hinayana guys to eliminate their obstacles to knowledge exhaustively, okay?

Completely, all right? And there is possible such a case, chik, okay? There is such a guy.

Oh, I see. Yeah, I was wondering about that. Yeah, there is such a guy.

And then they say, why do you say that? And he says, well, because, oh, you may, yeah, oh, because when they reach nirvana without remainder, they stop the ripened part of their being, okay? And it's a question though, Ken, right?

Yeah, this guy says, well, if everything you said is true, then according to the Mahayana, the Hinayanas can stop the... What's namin kichag here? The ripened part of the foundation consciousness.

Yeah, which we've been calling the... Refrigerator.

[Speaker 2]
Refrigerator itself.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, so the other guy is flirting with what we just said. We said this whole discussion has to be mind-only school. And then he says, yeah, but that means according to the higher way, people on the lower way can get rid of the refrigerator when they reach nirvana without remainder, okay?

According to you guys. So maybe they don't talk about the refrigerator as the refrigerator, but they talk about the refrigerator as the part of the mind which is a result of a karmic ripening. So he's careful not to use the word kunshi.

But he says the ripened part of the mind. According to your guy's theory, it should be the case that the Mahayana guys believe that the Hinayana guys can give up the refrigerator, even though they don't call it the refrigerator, when they reach nirvana without remainder, which is the blinking out point according to the lower school, right? Yeah.

By the way, I have personally, I have trouble with the deitana, which means, you know, if what you say is true, okay? Which is, it's not clear what he's referring to, to me. Right.

I mean, yeah, how far are we going back? Yeah, I guess it means if all your description here is true, then the Mahayana must think this about the Hinayana. Yeah, it has to be what's before this tangpo, it's 452 or something, it's not even 453.

Yeah, we got to chedol, chedol. We have to look into this further. Yeah, which means I'm too lazy to do it right now.

All right, good. You take the plane, boss. I'll take the plane, thank you, you did a good job.

And I don't know how you're finding the time to do all this and raise a baby, but congratulations. God bless you. Thankfully, she likes Tibetan, so it's working out.

So far. Exactly. She can't talk yet, so I don't actually know.

I have a friend who became a Buddhist nun and irritated her American parents, and then her daughter became a Christian nun and irritated her parents. Here we go. So where do you want to...

Your reading is a waste of time to check, so do you want to have somebody else read? Yeah, let's do... Alevtina, Saroktina.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, go ahead.

[Speaker 2]
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1]
Wow. Wow. Word, you're having a result on people.

Ochen herosho. Good job. Thanks, good.

Nyepa medde, Word. That's not a problem, man. Yeah, what's not a problem?

Do... when they reach Nirvana without remainder, do they stop the part of the kunshi which was a creation of karmic ripening, even though they don't want to call it kunshi? And we say no problem.

When those guys reach Lhagme... When... yeah, when those people reach Nirvana with no remainder.

They... and this is very difficult. They don't...

malupa pangwa, they don't eliminate all the ripened parts of the mind, right? Through some kind of gradual process, okay? They don't eliminate the ripened parts of the mind through some kind of gradual process, okay?

In the... through a Hinayana path, okay? By using a Hinayana path.

And they don't reduce their obstacles to omniscience in a gradual manner, okay? And by the way, oftentimes, or most times, chung du is an error for... chung mu, like little, little.

Yeah, which chung mu normally means lesser in a choice of greater, middling, and lesser. But when you have motion, when you have an elimination going on a linear timeline, it is really chung du. It's gradually lessening.

Gradually lessening. So chung mu is more of an adjective. Like rimpa chung mu means lesser, lesser stage.

But here it's tang. So they are making their obstacles to knowledge lesser and lesser, okay? Reducing in a gradual manner.

So the whole idea of this sentence is, do you think a person in the Hinayana track is reducing their obstacles to knowledge in a very gradual way? Lesser, lesser, lesser, okay? He says, ma lupa pamba me.

That's not the way they do it. That's not the way these Hinayana arhats do it. They don't get rid of their shiddhis in a gradual way.

Rather, they just dopa the whole gyun of the shiddhis. They just stop the whole flow of the obstacle. And the che means they just cut it off.

It doesn't get less, less, less, less, and then drop out. They do a master stroke. And they cut off the whole stream of the obstacles to omniscience, okay?

Which is to say, their pumba ngas gyun do. Their five heaps just completely stop happening. Yeah, they stop the flow of their five heaps.

They shut off the flow of their five heaps, okay? So are they saying that Hinayana arhats are Buddhas? Well, it seems to be they reach omniscience.

Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 2]
That's a bit wild.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, but there's no other choice actually. Well, let me think about it. Yeah, I guess they'd have to say that.

They go deeper now. They keep going. Yeah, let's keep going.

Please have someone read one. Okay. Marina, you want to read?

I know you're busy over there.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 3]
chungwa rang ni kyewa len gom na That was that time in Sedona.

[Speaker 1]
It has expanded her mind. gyupa mayin te Word? I'm not incorrect.

Yeah, our idea that they reach their process through a sudden cutting off process and not through a gradual reduction process, okay? It's not wrong because when they reach Lakme... When they have no remainder?

Yeah. tse ni dak drumpa tse du je Those arhats, tang, they're tse du je. Given a...

I want you to translate tse here. When they become arhats, or at that time when they're arhats? If it was an adverb, it wouldn't have an apostrophe S on it.

Oh, oh. Those... Oh, so it's a tricky word.

The karma which sustains life is sometimes called tse du je. Oh, okay, the karma's for... Okay.

We're gonna have a long discussion in Sugeng's book about why the difference between du je and le. So you can think of it as the karma that sustains life. Literally, it says the factors which sustain life, but it implies the karmic factors which sustain life, okay?

So when they reach nirvana without remainder, those lower arhats, they tangwa, they're tse du je. They throw out their life-sustaining karmic impressions. Good, nice.

Yeah, good, good. And shiway ok du, yeah, good, after they die, good. If you assert that they could continue to have an awareness after their death, then wouldn't they have to take a rebirth?

Yeah, you translated that nice. If you assert that they still have any mental processes after they die or after their nirvana with no remainder, then aren't they in a cycle of rebirth? And then they aren't a...

Arhat. Yeah, and they're not an enemy at this time, okay?

[Speaker 2]
They're definitely not Hlakme.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and then they haven't given up the cycle of rebirth, okay? I see, yeah. All right, who are you picking on next, Mr. Ward?

I don't know. Who wants the good time torture here? Nobody wants to be tortured.

And yet they come to my class. Oh, Scar. Oh, Scar.

Hey, bro, do it. DE'I KUNG PO YANG SLOB PA'I PHYIR LEN YON GYIS DBANG GIS SKYE BA'I CHANG MED LA LEN YON GYIS RNAMS PA'I LUS GRUB PAR YANG MI NUS TE Nice. Okay, this is pretty easy.

Let me check your translation here. LAS BLANGS YOD MNGON PA'I MNGON LUS PAR DBANG MED PHYIR The object of the lokpa is the de kye pa'i nama gyi pungpo. They have shut down their five parts of them, which is ripening, from the lay and nyonmong.

So by the way, the truth of suffering is divided into two halves. Sorry, the truth of the source of suffering is divided into two halves. Oh, the mental afflictions and their causes?

Karma and mental afflictions are the two divisions of the truth of the source of suffering. Very classic. Very, very classic.

So he says they gave up the two halves of the truth of the source of suffering. Therefore, they must have stopped the five heaps that result from those two guys. I see.

Lokpay chir. Therefore, they no longer have any kye wa, due to the power of karma and mental afflictions. And therefore, it's a string of therefores, right?

Therefore, they cannot have the lu. Yeah, they cannot get a body, you said, through these two angles, or through these two halves of the truth of the source of suffering. Yeah, they can't, they can't create a body.

Okay, me new, okay. Okay. Keep going.

Thanks. Roxanne Barbu.

[Speaker 2]
nyi shiwa chok chikpa yinpey chir thang ten lokpay chir ro.

[Speaker 1]
Nice. These... This is...

I don't know how to read this, but it's something like these guys are partial peacers. Okay, these guys are partial peace achievers. But it could mean the loss of their body is an integral component of their version of ultimate peace.

Okay, so the loss of body and mind, just referred to because there's no karma and and mental afflictions, they have lost their body, right? Therefore, they cannot have a continued awareness after nirvana. So the loss of a body and the implied loss of a mind is part and parcel with their nirvana.

Okay, so that loss is chok chikpa abdhir shiwa. Okay, yinpey chir. And their ten has lokpa.

What's a good way to translate ten? I mean, body-mind complex is what it means, right? Yeah, I like that.

I like when you say telwe ten, a body and mind of leisure and fortune, right? I think that's the idea. It's a home base.

I used to translate as home base from which you can operate. It's like a headquarters. Body and mind together, okay?

And you got to think of ten that way. But they have lokpa their ten. They've ended it.

They've stopped it. They shut down their body and mind, okay? Who's going to read, Roon?

I don't know. By the way, so far, it kind of supports the idea that they lost their kung shi. Yeah, they lost everything.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, our author has chosen to emphasize that they have lost the refrigerator. And he has been careful to avoid mentioning the seeds.

But I don't know. To me, it's not much different. Yeah, it seems pretty equivalent so far.

Okay, let's have... What is it, Cui Lingliang, do you want to read?

[Speaker 2]
The first one, I can't read it. Try. Say tena.

Tena. Dirty. Good.

True. True.

[Speaker 1]
Nice.

[Speaker 2]
Yes. Good. Good.

[Speaker 1]
Say ying. Say ying. Yeah.

Good job, okay. Okay, let me see your translation. I'm going to push this down.

Yeah, good. So, chupa nye war shiwa is an idiom. To put to rest all of your chupas.

All your elaborations. Yeah, to put to rest all your fancy things you create with your mind, okay. Which in the higher schools refers to projections.

It's kind of going into the direct perception of emptiness. Shutting down all your projections, that's a good word, that things are self-existent is a nice way to translate this or think of it. So, their version of stopping the mind's tendency to believe that things are self-existent or coming from their own side, right?

They have shut down, they have cut off the flow, right? Yeah, stream is extinguished. What stream?

Of duchess. Composed things. Yeah, of all products, of all mental and physical creations have been shut down.

There's no more things in them which have been created by seeds, by causes. Nothing, okay. Meaning mental or physical, okay.

So, what they're saying is, if you asked one of these lower school guys, we got this thing called the end of all your dreams or all your illusions. What do you think it is? And they would say, oh, that's where they cut off their body and mind.

All changing things, okay. And then you can call that the mysterious realm where there's no more signs. Or there's no more signs of any...

It's a realm where there's no more indicators of any existence at all. So, they're kind of perversely using the language of the higher middle way. Hmm.

Saying, yeah, you guys talk about the end of all projections, and you guys talk about the end of all signs. Yeah, we got that too. It's when a narhad doesn't have any more...

Cuts off the stream of their body and mind. We got that. We got that, okay.

It's kind of cute, okay.

[Speaker 2]
By the way, this whole thing is kachig, right?

[Speaker 1]
Therefore, who's going to read a word?

[Speaker 2]
Um, I don't know. Let's see. Um, Rinchen Sutrim.

[Speaker 3]
Thank you. Nice, nice.

[Speaker 1]
So, this is the other guy, and he's concluding his thought. And he says, hey, therefore, we got the same mysterious empty place that the highest school talks about. You know, it's got this mysterious empty place called no more signs, no more indicators of any object at all.

By the way, in the highest school, that means no more indicators that the thing could be self-existent, or no more indicators that the thing could be coming from its own side. But he grabs on to that and he says, yeah, we got the same kind of thing where there's no more signs. You know, because what?

We have severed all changing things. We don't have mental things. We don't have physical things.

We're just the same as you guys. There's not a trace of anything left. TSE MA MED PA YIN, this mysterious realm where there's no trace of anything left.

We got that too. Okay, cool. And the answer to that is very, very beautiful.

Okay, this 464, you should frame it and put it on your wall. We're about, we're out of time Geshe-la, but... We got to do this, Nick.

What if we die? What if our mental and physical factors cut off before we... Ominous, ominous.

Then we won't care anyway, again. I'm going to read it. Okay, MING RGYUD DE DAG DI NA DU BYED KYI BYUD PA NYE BAR ZHI BA TZAM YIN GYI It is not the same as that mysterious space in the higher schools, because, Dina, here in this school, DU BYED KYI BYUD PA NYE BAR ZHI BA TZAM YIN It's just the discontinuation of your mental and physical parts.

But you do not DUNG, rise, in your lower school presentation of a nirvana without remainder, where your body and mind shuts down, the space that you go into, you do not rise up from that space in a KU, which GZHAN DUN CHAS. Which, in a holy body, which benefits others, which works for the sake of others. Exactly, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, you got a mysterious empty space, and we got a mysterious empty space, but don't say they're the same thing. And then he says, why? And we say, we rise up out of our mysterious empty space in a holy angel's body, and we take care of all the beings in the universe.

That's not the same. Okay, cool. GZHAN DUN DU LAS LA GOM PAR MA BYAS PA'I TSOR Because GZHAN DUN DU LAS LA GOM PAR MA BYAS PA'I TSOR You don't rise up in that body, because during your practice time, before your mind and body shut down, you didn't constantly try to be a bodhisattva.

You didn't practice over and over again, taking care of other people. Therefore, when you go into your empty space, you just disappear. When we go into our empty space, we rise up in a Buddha's body and take care of the whole universe.

Yay! That's pretty cool. Yay.

Mr. Wern, the next one, two, three. Okay? Okay.

Four, do the verse two. This is a very famous verse. It is?

Oh, cool. Yeah, yeah. It's describing the Hinayana nirvana.

Okay. Okay, cool. All right, good job.

Thank you again for teaching people, and we can see the result. And if you weren't doing it, all these people wouldn't be able to read, and thank you very much. Yay, seeds for literacy.

Okay, Nick, Uncle Nick, how much time we got? We have eight minutes, but until a Q&A with Venerable Utpala. So please join.

She's brilliant, so you can ask her the hardest stuff you can possibly think of, get it out of the way. And then there's yoga today as well, with a special yoga class with Uta at 8.15. Then another special yoga class with Alex Rivas at 3 p.m. So make it to want to take advantage of our ongoing physical practices to keep you healthy, because you're staring at the computer so much. So have a nice break, and then come back for Q&A with Utpala.

Thank you for doing that, Utpala. And thank you for class, Geshe Michael. That was amazing.

Yeah, thank you for all the yoga classes, you guys. All right.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you, Geshe.

[Speaker 1]
Thanks, Geshe-la.

[Speaker 3]
Thank you, Geshe-la.

[Speaker 1]
Hey, give my granddaughter a hug. I will give several hugs.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, bye. Bye.