Вордсмит — Книга 2: Трудные места школы «Ум только», занятие 54

[Speaker 1]
Hey, Nick. Yes, sir. When Amelie wakes up, how come she doesn't open her eyes?

Why? Sometimes she does. Okay, okay.

Nick, you look like a CEO today. A what? A CEO.

[Speaker 2]
CEO of the couch. Should I start again?

[Speaker 1]
Yes, please. Okay, let's start the quiz. I'm trying to keep it simple because it's simple.

[Speaker 2]
Because you're kind.

[Speaker 1]
Because I don't understand anything anyway, so I can't really ask you complex questions. All right.

[Speaker 2]
When we say, I don't know. Should I put like this Venerable Paula, when we say what are two lower philosophies?

[Speaker 1]
I don't know.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Recast, but yeah, that's good. When we say what are two lower, what are the, I should put, two lower philosophical schools. What are our choices?

So, Jason Kapos says, lower philosophical schools, because he's discussing who has the kunshi, who believes in the kunshi, etc. So, what are the options of the two lower philosophical schools that could be?

[Speaker 2]
Is that detail us in Sutras? That's one of the options. Yep.

Yeah. The other option. Objectists.

[Speaker 3]
Eliciters and self-made Buddhas.

[Speaker 2]
Yay, who said that?

[Speaker 1]
Sounds like Anatole. Anatole, gosh. He must have went to the French bakery this morning.

Okay. Yeah, that's right. How do you say lower philosophical and how do you say those two sets of schools?

Lower philosophical. I was waiting for someone. Dripta Mawadini.

Yeah, Dripta Mawadini. Well, yeah, those lower, literally in this case, Venerable Paul, you're completely right, but how do you say it literally? It's, it's slightly different, but.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Not much vocab, so I gotta do something. How about Upmani? Yeah, you could say that too.

You just put. But yeah, again, you could say that too, of course, but he just put, let me do this thing. He just put dup-tap-men-pa.

Oh, that makes sense. Okay. Yeah, exactly.

It makes sense. You'd have to know it from the text. It's not like it's evidence.

You guys answered this already. Okay. And how do you say this in Tibetan?

Hiya. There's no vocab. What are you doing?

What do you want? What do you want? There's no vocab.

You're in the...

[Speaker 2]
You want kun-chi again? I'll put kun-chi again.

[Speaker 1]
You're in the most difficult text ever written in Tibetan, and you can't find a vocab. What do you want? Come on.

[Speaker 2]
I did. Please.

[Speaker 1]
All right. How do you say detailess, Rob Haggerty? Bye-bye-shika?

Yeah, that's...

[Speaker 2]
Shit, I'm off.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, yeah. You're right, Haggerty. It was just the wrong language.

How do you say...

[Speaker 2]
Sutra. Sutra. And it's a word we use for sutra.

I know. It's weird. Something dull?

Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yay. Yeah. Dull.

What else? Did you just say dull? What else did you say?

I think it was... I think it was duh. Those two functions.

[Speaker 2]
They're functional.

[Speaker 1]
That makes sense.

[Speaker 3]
Duh. Duh. Duh.

Duh. Duh. Duh.

Duh. Duh.

[Speaker 1]
Duh. Duh. Duh.

[Speaker 3]
Duh. Duh.

[Speaker 1]
Duh. Duh. Duh.

Duh. Duh. Duh.

Duh. Duh. Duh.

Duh. Duh. Duh.

Duh. Toughcore way.

[Speaker 3]
Teck mang ki nyinti tang rong guay.

[Speaker 1]
He just made it a compound. He put n room wrong together. He lumbed the path of them.

Whatever. That's the Tibetan. It wasn't anything.

OK, why is it evident that this argument concerning foundation consciousness in the lower schools is erroneous? Trick question. Trick question.

[Speaker 2]
There is no foundation consciousness in the lower schools.

[Speaker 1]
Yay. Tim's paying attention, or he's? Wait, how much money are you giving to Dr. Loanhow?

What? Tim needs to give me some cash. What is the thing that creates a holy body that is for the sake of others?

Bodhichitta. That's true. More, I guess, literally?

I don't know.

[Speaker 3]
You mean like of the six perfections?

[Speaker 1]
I mean, from the book. Oh. I mean, yes, the six perfections.

[Speaker 3]
Is it like this empty space? They're talking about this empty space, right? They got in there both schools, but the highest and the lowest.

[Speaker 1]
Well, he's saying why you don't end up with the body of a Buddha from practicing the lower path, pretty much. He just kind of mentioned something. I'll just tell you, because I don't know.

[Speaker 2]
He says the habit of working for the sake of others. OK.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. I mean, it makes sense, but in a way, maybe you have to remind people. Arjuna Tibetan.

Here's the translation. Yay.

[Speaker 2]
OK.

[Speaker 1]
I'll read it. But apparently, people like that. Nice.

Let me digest your translation here. Moreover, some of the outline is a lower practice in the United States as concerns the permutation, having neither an engaging consciousness, nor a particular basis, explains in the realm of the knowing mind, as we stated before. Good.

My only question for you is, when he says jukshe, what's he referring to in the eight consciousnesses? He's referring to the six. Yeah, good.

So when you say, as you wrote here, engaging consciousnesses, we're always talking about the first six and not seven or eight. Why seven and eight are not jukpa would be an interesting discussion in your class. I think he already stated, you're not like foundation consciousness and use it.

So it's not jukpa. You can use your eyes. You can direct.

Yeah, I agree. I agree. Jukpa is more active, more assertive.

And foundation consciousness is more like whatever the TV shows you, you believe. Nice translation. OK, let's go to the next one.

By the way, we already had this in our text, and we don't need to go back to it. I don't think so. You want to read your 466?

Sure. DIN NGAN TU THANG DGOS DUN ZHES KYANG BRDZUN MI NUS TE KUN ZHI YOD NA BRTEN LA BSTAN PA'I SKABS RGYUN PA'I PHYIR RO Yeah. Let me see.

You cannot say that it also conforms to the listeners. NGAN DUN DGOS DUN KHYER I like the conform for DGOS DUN. That's nice with the listeners, because it's part of the presentation.

KUN ZHI YOD NA BRTEN LA BSTAN PA'I SKABS RGYUN PA'I PHYIR Yeah, good. OK. Good.

Or you could say on whether or not you have foundation consciousness or something.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. OK. OK.

[Speaker 1]
I think this is going to get really interesting, because we all heard these weird ideas about nirvana and you disappear. And there's going to be a lot more detail here. It's not as dumb as it sounds.

OK. So please read one more paragraph. DUM MA BYAS SU MIN GDOD PA'I PHYIR RO Good.

That's interesting. I wonder why there's not a DUM MA BYAS SU MIN GDOD in the last line. I think there might be something missing.

Oh. There's certainly something missing. It should say DUM MA BYAS ZAS.

No, the ZAS is correct.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, you think it's ZAS as well?

[Speaker 1]
There should have been a BYAS between MA and ZAS, yeah. In my opinion, yeah. Good.

OK, good. Therefore, in terms of how to detail it, DE LA CHEN PO'I MA YIN NA Good. The stream of main things, THUG CHE RGYUN BYAS SO SOR DANG PO NI STOP DONG DANG SU ZHIG ZHIG RGYUR Actually, it's more of a positive.

Oh. The sotsor dangog, which is a gyun chepa of ditches. You see what I mean?

Which is the ending of the stream of Mayflower. Yeah. And good.

Cessation from individual analysis. I really like it. Cheers.

Oh, okay. I think it's a droopy. Okay.

Now, this is really interesting to me I don't know about you guys, but if you if in the lower schools, if you reach Nirvana, and you blink out. Right. And you just stop.

Then, is that a thing. Right. Is the thing, like we call it Nirvana, right?

So it kind of feels like a thing. So you go, go, go, go. And then suddenly everything stops.

And in the next moment, is there something there or not? Okay. And what is there?

And the lower school says a separate entity pops into existence after the mind and body stop. A separate entity pops into existence after the mind and body stop. And that second entity is dumache.

[Speaker 3]
Unimposed.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it's an unchanging thing. Okay. It's an unchanging thing, uncreated thing.

Okay, so they have this kind of cool idea. When you shut off your mind, and shut off your body, you're not really gone, because there's an ending there. Or there's an absence there, which is a thing.

Which is an actual thing. And it's a dumache. It's a permanent, unchanging thing.

That nirvana is a thing. It's a thing, which is the absence of those body and mind. But that absence continues on forever.

And so it's your blink out. And you stay in the blink out forever. Something like that.

They don't feel comfortable to say you just disappear. They say you become your disappearance. So this is that?

This is that disappearance thing? No, we got two schools of thought here. First school says when everything shuts down, you move into a kind of a dharmakaya.

You see? You move into kind of an unchanging... You become an unchanging entity.

But you are still an entity. You become a dumache. And they call it so-so tango, right?

Dö la, okay? They say shik yupa means there is an unchanging blob there that you became. And then the dodepas say you are not a dumache.

You are not an unchanging entity. You are a simple mepa. Non-entity?

Yeah, you're a non-entity. So they're a little more radical. They say when you disappear, what's there is nothingness.

As opposed to a permanent ending of your negativities. It's interesting. So what's the chang here?

Abbreviation for a word. Chi yang or chi yang? Yeah, chi yang me.

Nothing at all. And that's the classic misunderstanding of nirvana. You become nothing at all.

So, yeah. It says here that the dodepas deny that you're a duje. It doesn't say dumache, right?

No, you are the simple discontinuation of all changing things. It's not saying deny, they believe. Yeah, you are the simple megak.

Ah, I see. I got you. You are the simple absence of all produced things.

Yeah. And you hang out in a state where you are just nothing, as opposed to permanently something. It's kind of interesting to me.

I don't know. Good. And then they say, phunpo na drawa ni du, you are...

Yeah. Yeah, they believe, still talking about the sutras, they believe you are without body and without mind. But they don't agree that there could be a separate entity called that thing which was never produced, or that absence of produced things.

They don't agree that that's a separate entity. The Vibhashika, they say, when you blink out, you become a separate entity called blink-out or something. And then in the second school, they don't say anything's left at all.

There's just the absence of all changing things. And it's just an absence. So in the lower school, you become a permanent, unchanging entity.

And in the second school, you just blink out. And they don't believe in a dze. So dze means a separate entity called the absence of produced things or something like that.

They don't believe that nirvana is a separate entity. It's just an absence. The reason I understood that was I was able to talk to some other philosophers, and I thought you guys might like to see some of them.

That was one of them. And PJs. I like the PJs.

I don't know why I can't find PJs like that for myself. Where'd you get some of those? I do have them.

We all got them for Christmas. And then we got this one. I want a duck like that or whatever it is.

Okay. Just give me your address. I'll send it to you.

She's got a good smile. My gosh.

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Ben, I have a kind of punctuation question.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Ben, I'm trying to get better at punctuation. I think of you.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, I'm sorry. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
So as far as this whole section, right, because this is like whereas, right? This is like a disjunctive, right, Ben? Yeah.

That's true. We call it a mild disjunctive. Exactly.

So would you make this one big section? Because you have this whereas, so you're trying to disjunct them, like show how they're contrasting. So would you make it one big section?

Well, I definitely wouldn't run on the sentence. I would definitely stop the first sentence. Yeah.

And I like the whereas. I might, if it were me, I would cut it into two sentences, that section. And I would say the sutras on the other hand, believe, you see something like that?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So even though you would just disjunct a lot to make it make sense and just put it as one, two sentences.

Yeah. And whether or not you split this whole paragraph into two is a valid question. And I've been struggling with that lately.

And I believe the two thoughts are so closely linked that I wouldn't want to create two different paragraphs. Exactly. And that's why I didn't split it.

And because this was here, it's weird when there's a tongue or a conjunction to split it because then it's hanging. I don't know. I will do it shamelessly if it was longer.

If it was Tsongkhapa, I would do it. But here I think the thoughts are so... He's trying to create a...

What do you call it? Compare and contrast. Yeah.

He's trying to do a contrast. So if you split them, you kind of lose the feeling. I did one more again.

You asked me for four. Yeah, this is one of the most famous quotations in all of the Kangyur, 990 Books of Buddha. This is one of the most famous quotations.

Okay. So please read first. Okay.

Okay. Yeah, good. Good.

Okay, good. Yeah. Yeah.

I want you to recast this with nika as a subject of the sentence and sem as a verb at the end. Oh, I was wondering about that nika. I thought...

Is it the sutras in the detail list or no? Yeah, it is. Yeah.

It is. Okay. So both of them think...

Good, that's all. That's all. Yeah.

Both of them think that their interpretation of a permanent, unchanging space called nirvana or a simple absence of anything at all is what the sutra means when it says. That's what it means. Yeah.

So they both think they got it right and they both use the same quotation to prove what they think. And this shing is just a later... There's another quote coming up or something?

Yeah, yeah, exactly. What did you think? Yeah, I think that's fine.

I think now it would be an interesting class, Wern, to discuss the verbs he chose for shutting off the five heaps. Yeah, exactly. And I did think about them because they were pretty particular, you know?

Exactly. And so don't forget this is an enlightened being talking. So what verbs has he put on the five heaps?

And you want to talk about it right now, Wern? Yeah, as much as I've thought. But like shik for lu makes sense because that's often the case, like the body breaks down, you know?

Yeah, tell me about it. Well, I mean... No, I mean...

[Speaker 2]
I'll tell you about it.

[Speaker 1]
I mean the pieces fall apart one by one. Well, we'll see. You spend the whole week at different specialists.

My time at Chinese medical school taught me.

[Speaker 2]
Exactly.

[Speaker 1]
This one was a little more difficult for me, but I was talking about it with Oscar. I think it was you, Oscar, right? Weren't you saying like feeling in the body, like how your body is warm, weren't you saying?

Was that you, Oscar?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, maybe, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
I think it was. So like you have to be warm in your body to have a feeling so then the feeling cools off. But this word, silwa is a verb that's always used with sadung.

Sadung? Sadung. Oh, like...

Not torture. Yeah, it is. The torment of the heat of the sun, for example.

Oh, right, yeah, yeah, the torture of heat, yeah. So this verb silwa always accompanies that. So what does that imply about feelings?

Oh, the torture ends. You finally end the torture of having to feel all this stuff. Yeah, and so you've got to find a way to say that.

And I personally wouldn't mind if the verse got longer. Right. So that you could...

If it were me, I might put a heap on each line, for example. Yeah, I was kind of playing with that because this nampa shepa ended up on one line, and I was wondering... The Buddha obviously wants it to feel like a list.

So, yeah, or something where you've got to find words that indicate you've been tortured with a red-hot piece of iron and suddenly somebody takes it off of you. And the concept of feeling, the capacity of feeling as being like a red-hot iron is very interesting. And by the way, the texts all say feeling never stops.

It's a constant torture your whole life. That's why people take heroin and stuff. They want to get out of it.

So you have license here to get very poetic about finally getting free of some kind of molten steel or something like that.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, I'll think about it.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Now, why gawk for douché? I think that's a good one for douché.

I mean, if the feelings don't get you, the thoughts will. Yeah, but what kind of thoughts is douché? Douché is discrimination.

Yeah, he's better, he's worse, he's stupid, he's smart, she's beautiful, she's ugly. And then finally you shut down this discrimination. You've got to be more poetic in this.

This is one of the most poetic lines in Buddhism. Okay. I'm just putting what it is more literally.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
But just imagine if you could finally stop all your prejudices and all your biases and all your discrimination, what would it feel like? It's supposed to feel wonderful. Yeah, nirvana.

Okay, and then other factors are... I put extinguished. I mean, obviously this is like pacified or put to rest.

Yeah, I wonder, can you comment on why did he choose a word put to rest or something like that? What douché are you think he's talking about? Well, I mean, it's the five heaps, right?

So, this is... I mean, it can be karmas, right? Or the second link or something, but in this context...

Yeah, it's not. You're correct, it's not. It's the fourth heap.

The rest of the mental functions are pain in the ass, basically. I think I would support that kind of thinking. In the Abhidharma and Sutra schools, the big douchés are the other mental functions.

So, finally, all this thinking comes to a stop. The implication is that thinking itself is painful. It often is.

And that's a very typical misunderstanding of Buddhism, right? It's a Dharma rumor. And then this nup.

Nup means to decline or disappear or set, as far as the sun goes, right? Why do you think they use it for consciousness? I don't know.

I think... It's kind of like going to sleep or something. It feels like it fades out.

I was thinking the same word. I was thinking fade out here, fade away here. And for people who misunderstand Buddhism, the final touch is they would like to fall into a deep sleep that never ends, or something like that.

So, go back and show us next time. And I would put them on separate lines. Okay.

And try to make it more evocative. I can do evocative. And pretend you've got to put your head in the mind of a person who doesn't understand Buddhism.

It's like I met a junkie one time, a heroin junkie, and he pretty much described this. He said, that's what I want. I just want it all to stop.

So, you've got to take some time and make it poetic.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
It's so famous, you know. Yeah, I didn't even know it was famous, but I really liked it. It's like...

It's the basis of many hundreds of years of stupid ideas about Buddhism. Yeah, okay. Again.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Oh, maybe I misinterpreted this. I guess I thought this was indicating some kind of quote, but it's just saying in general, right?

Yeah, their position on nirvana, really. Okay. And by the way, I've never seen such a clear juxtaposition of the two schools' opinions on nirvana.

If you had asked me before I read this, I would have said they were pretty much the same, but he separates them very skillfully. Okay. That's it.

All right. Oh, let's start the class. Yeah.

Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Where are you? Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun.

This is a really beautiful part of your text, maybe because I can understand it. Maybe they're all beautiful.

[Speaker 2]
I don't get it.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Why did I put Ben's text here? I did, Ken.

I did. Oh, I see. Okay.

It's a so-so tongue hook. Okay, good. Okay.

Oh, and I had a note to myself for you. When you're looking for... By the way, I really, really, really, really appreciate that you went and found your own quotations, because that saves me a lot of time, and there's no reason why you guys can't do it for your own text.

But when you hit a quotation multiple hits, you have to select the earliest one. So you had a tengyur one, but there's a kangyur one. Notice when you get a hit, whether you're in the kangyur or the tengyur, and go for the kangyur first, because the tengyur is just quoting the kangyur.

We don't want to... In the mixed notes, we don't want... And this was Nixon.

Nick and Ben had this challenge this week while they were cleaning up an earlier translation of mine, and try to find the original quotation. Even among the Tibetans, if you get five hits, you have to go to the dates and see which one came first. And then the others are quoting the first one, right?

Hopefully. Okay. But don't you also distinguish based on who is the most accurate in your viewpoint as well, amongst the Tibetans?

Well, as I mentioned before, the database is vetted. Our database is clean. There's nobody in the database who's a weirdo.

We don't let them in the database. If you hit it in our database, it's probably authoritative. You guys don't think about it, but that's something that grandpa has left for you, is a clean database.

So please, please, don't mess it up. Okay. Somebody will come and say, why you don't put all the books in?

And you have to have a good answer for that. Or you can say, you put the other ones in and we'll call it a secondary database for checking on wrong views.

[Speaker 2]
I love that.

[Speaker 1]
Seriously. And by the way, the minute you say you pay for it, they don't do it anyway. All right.

Word, you're going to have somebody else read? Sure. Who's here?

Wait, Oscar's not translating. You want to do it, Oscar?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah. Yeah, thank you.

[Speaker 2]
Sure, bro.

[Speaker 3]
Okay. Nice.

[Speaker 1]
He's making a pun here, I just noticed, Word. In the first line. Aha, the detail of the sutras.

Yeah, now to give you the sutras position in more detail, get it? All right. Then what's these two lines say?

Marme is a butter lamp. Shiwa is to turn it off, put it out, I don't know, extinguish it? Yeah.

It's like that. Garpatar. And then teyi, the mind is like that, right?

Yeah, the liberation of the mind is similar. I was distracted because here he used shiwa, and above they used shiwa.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, okay.

[Speaker 1]
You see? And I wonder, did we find the original source here? No?

Shiwa. Okay. All right, that's okay.

Because shiwa would imply chepa pongwa su yurpa. Oh, that there's an agent? Yeah, somebody stopped it.

But I don't think that's what it means here. But it's nirvana, so blowing out a butter lamp, someone did stop it, right? Yeah, you could say that.

The gyurpa is more past participle, but it's still okay. Anyway, first he gave a quotation by Lord Buddha that both the first school and the second school used to support their different presentations of nirvana. And now he says, by the way, there's more detail from the sutras, and they say when your mind gets liberated, it's similar to how a butter lamp is extinguished, right?

So, drachom besem kyi nabar duwa. What's that? The nabar duwa of the drachom besem?

The liberated, the very liberated mind of an arhat. Yeah, good. And good translation down here.

shiwa tar sumpa dang And what's the... why did... Who's your author again?

Je Tsongkapa. Why did Je Tsongkapa add this sentence? rang gi drub tar tumpar du do Oh, we also agree with that.

No, there. There, drub tar. Oh, I put there in the translation, but I second-guessed myself.

Yeah, I know. So, they have crafted or they have created their system about nirvana to fit this verse. That's what he's saying.

And they have crafted their position on nirvana to agree with this quotation. Their own system. Yeah, they say only their own system fits this quotation nicely, meaning, implying whose system doesn't fit it nicely.

Either Je Tsongkapa or their own, or the mind-only position? No, the discussion here has been between the two lower schools, right? So, Je Tsongkapa?

Yeah, so they say, oh, those Abhidharma guys, they think your mind blinks out, your body blinks out, and then a big clump comes into existence forever. And then they say, we're not clumpists, you know. The butter lamp dies, the mind just disappears, and this quotation fits us.

Okay. Where was that from? Oh, the Hundred Stories of the Saints.

Okay. So, here I found it. You found it in the Kangyur, and then also in the...

When you find something, put it in 16-point, okay? Put that piece in 16-point. Okay, yeah, I usually do.

Maybe I missed it. Yeah, it helps us when we're in class. Okay.

Okay, good, here we go. Yeah, what's the... Who is this?

Oh, this is the Perfection of Wisdom. Oh, this is a commentary to the Abhisamahankara, right? They add a line.

Do you want to describe that line? Which one? We didn't discuss it, though.

Oh, yeah, let's forget that. Okay. Okay.

What does it mean? Does it mean all like the end of suffering? These are all the end of suffering?

Yeah, it means that this was putting the end to your suffering. Okay, thank you. Now, we're going to move out of the two lower schools and go to the third school, right?

Okay, which is where we were supposed to be in the first place. So, who's going to read, Wern? I don't know.

Let's see. Who's here? I don't want to torture my students.

I love that. It's so fun. I noticed.

Yeah. I noticed you loving this. Alevtina?

Alevtina Sorokina?

[Speaker 2]
Are you there? Yes. Whoa, okay.

Can you read this section, please? Nice. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Really good. Really, really good. You must be a Word student.

Okay, Word. Yeah, which means the... Mind only school.

Yeah, the mind only school. Now, I don't know. These few paragraphs would make a beautiful course or something, or a beautiful lecture, like a two-hour thing or something, because it's the idea of nirvana in each school.

And it's very beautiful, and there are different flavors. So, they say this nirvana is a deshe nyi. Is it a thing?

Wait. It's kind of a tatva. You know, it's kind of a suchness.

[Speaker 2]
Right, it's a type of...

[Speaker 1]
It's a kind of suchness, implying some kind of emptiness, maybe. Nirvana is a suchness in which you have put to rest the jukpa... The engaging, all the...

Of BEM and RIG. Of particulate matter and thinking stuff. Yeah, all physical matter and all mental processes.

Their engagement, or their activity, has been put to rest in this realm of suchness. And... SOR RE BA'I DE BA MED You don't feel good.

There's no good feelings there. Yeah, there's no pleasure in the sense of the sensations. Right, okay.

We're not talking about pleasure in the sense of sensations, but there is a DE BA there. Yeah, there's no good feelings, but there is a bliss. Yeah, good.

You don't have pleasure in the sense of feeling, but you do have a bliss where you are CHAL BA RTEN DU SDUG BSNGAL Where you are permanently bereft of suffering. Yeah, where you are forever free of suffering. Do you have feelings of physical and mental bliss?

No. Do you have bliss? Yes.

Well, what's that bliss? That's the bliss of not suffering anymore. It's like stopping beating your head against the wall, right?

It feels so good. So, can we ask you, Mr. Mind Only, is nirvana an arhat's condition, or high bodhisattva, right, in this discussion? Is it a ME GANG?

Is it a simple absence the way that the second school said it was? Well, not according to Mind Only. It's a simple absence, but not in the way the second school said it was.

Yeah, so we say, look, it's not just nothing, okay? ME GANG BYANG ME It's not just nothing like your second school guy said, okay? It's not just nothing, but it's also not your path.

Yeah, it ain't is and it ain't not. Yeah, it ain't not and it ain't is, okay? And when he says it ain't is, he says it's not anything substantial.

It's not nothing and it's not substantially something, okay? Is that more like substance there? Well, I think what he's saying, he's criticizing the Vibhashikas, I think.

He says, look, it's not a clump, okay? It's not that you get a new clump which consists of nothing, okay? It's not that.

But we do say it's DAG PA and GYUR ME, and it is a YOD PA. It does exist, it will not change, and it is unchanging. Immutable, yeah, okay?

That's what we believe, okay? So it'd be very interesting to have a class. It'd probably take about an hour to discuss the difference between these things.

It's extremely clear. I mean, I've never seen anything so clear about the kinds of nirvana. All right.

Who are you going to pick on next? You've got five minutes. You might as well use it.

Chloe. Chloe. Hi.

Chloe, why aren't you in my class? Is it too early?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Good job. DE LA'ABS PA DU BAR Nice.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, you don't need my class, that's why you're not coming. DE PHYIR LHAG CHE PHEN CHE DU Let me see. This is tricky.

I also misunderstood it. According to them, you can still take Chendu Juk once you have reached Lakche and Nyangde. Oh, once you've reached nirvana without remaining there, you can still go on to enter, become part of the Mahayana.

Yeah, and because there's two classic types of nirvana reachers described in this whole section. They are the high bodhisattvas and the... Drachombas, the arhats.

Yeah, and the lower, the Hinayana drachombas, okay? Hinayana arhats. So he says, look, there's still hope for the one guys, those Hinayana arhats.

There's still hope for them, okay? Even after they achieve nirvana with the remainder, okay? They still have a chance to promote themselves to Mahayana, okay?

And that's... what do you call it? That's a policy of scripture, right?

Hinayana arhats can get promoted, right? Okay, but the law is a soft... Disjunctive.

Yeah, but once you've reached that point, hak che pen che, right? I'm sorry, from that point on, once you get higher than hak che, you cannot jukpa to the teacher. You can, and you cannot enter into the Mahayana.

Yeah, they cannot. Who believes that? Mind only?

Yeah, mind only, because I don't think we would ever say that. That would mean some people couldn't reach enlightenment or something. You see what I mean?

Right. Yeah, so once you get to nirvana with remainder, you can still enter the Mahayana. Once you get to past that, meaning nirvana without remainder, maybe, it's too late.

You can't get promoted. Maybe there's nothing left to promote, okay? me gag chang me Yeah, yeah.

We still have one minute, Word. Why don't you read this fast? We got two.

Oh, no, we got one. Well, saying you have two takes one. nen chu jang chub yong sun gyurwa ching chi pungpo hlakma thang che pe nya nyeng le de pe yin la ne shing la na na mepa yang dakpar dzokpe jang chub jukpar je thang Keep going.

ante, pungpo hlakma mepe nya nyeng le de pe yin la ne shing che chen na Yeah, I think we leave it for next time. I don't want to rush it. But yeah, it's a quotation, right?

Yeah, I'll do the next few sections for my homework. You did a good job. I really enjoy your translations and I really enjoy that you work so hard that you can translate it.

By the way, this quotation goes on for three sections, right? And it ends here at the sheso in 474. Okay, so probably you should take this whole three sections.

And I have a question about punctuation regarding quotes that are split up. Like, how do we put the quotes? I know there's a method, I just don't know.

Like, I just put quotes on each, but it felt like there was another way. Don't you just put quotes on the first part and not the second part? Yeah, if it's a conversation that's continuing to multiple paragraphs.

And Venerable Udbhaya can tell you better than me, but you don't use an ending quotation mark.

[Speaker 2]
Exactly, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
But you use a starting quotation. If it were me, I would put the whole thing in indent. And then you don't get your reader distracted.

And then you don't get double quotation marks inside of double quotation marks. Yeah, exactly. I was wondering about that too.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, cool. All right, see you tonight. Yeah, you did a good job, Warden.

Thank you again for teaching your class. You're welcome. All right, Uncle Nick, any final words from Amalie?

No, she's watching Spider-Man, so... Hey, how can Spider-Man be more interesting than Wordsmith? I don't know.

It's close. I wish I was watching Spider-Man.

[Speaker 2]
That's what Shoshuna thinks.

[Speaker 1]
She's all ears. You might be watching Spider-Man and you don't know. No, we have yoga coming up with Jacqueline, so stick around if you would like to check out that yoga class.

Or of course, we have another one in the afternoon that will be with Andriana. So if you can make it to one of those, I hear it's really good for you to do yoga. So have a great break.

Keshe Michael gets rest. Hey, Tim, who's the crazy guy on your lap? Who is this guy?

[Speaker 2]
It's the neighbor's golden retriever.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, it's the neighbor's puppy. I see.

[Speaker 2]
It's me. Oh, there you are.

[Speaker 1]
You should give him a dog treat. I'll send you some. You can feed it to him.

[Speaker 2]
It's all he eats. I'm a human.

[Speaker 1]
Ew.

[Speaker 3]
All right, see you guys later.

[Speaker 2]
I need food.

[Speaker 3]
Thank you, Keshelea. Thanks, everybody.

[Speaker 2]
See you later.