Сугэн Ши — Книга 2: Колесо жизни (первый принцип и подразделения зависимости), занятие 29

[Speaker 1]
Wow, all the translators are still around. How about the participants? All of you can speak, you know, you can just turn on the mic and speak.

So, how should we start? Anybody has any questions to discuss? Please ask me easy questions.

Yeah, Isabel. You're asking questions? Hey, hold on.

I can't hear you. Is that my problem or your problem? Isabel.

Oh, Isabel is interpreter. Okay. Hold on.

Chinese. Okay. Okay.

So, you want to speak in English channel? Okay. So, all of you who want to listen to Isabel, please switch to English channel so we can hear her.

[Speaker 2]
Yes, I can hear you. Yes, I can hear you.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, good question. Well, I also don't understand last class, to be frank. But I remember reading something on this one from ACI 13.

Okay, I don't understand last class also, but I remember reading something on this one from ACI, sorry, not 13, ACI 14. Oh, 15. Sorry.

[Speaker 2]
15. Right. So, somebody is speaking in English channel.

[Speaker 3]
I think Spanish is in English channel.

[Speaker 1]
Okay.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
In ACI 15. Right. I remember seeing something on this one.

Anybody remember the answer there?

[Speaker 2]
Anybody? Let me see.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. The question is that we always say that mind only is, according to mind only, everything is in our mind. Yeah.

Okay. According to mind only, everything is in our mind. But the last class, we are saying that actually there is something outside.

Right. So, that is the question. And I'm saying, I don't, I also don't understand the last class, but I remember seeing something on this one from ACI 15.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
So, I'm trying to find the answer. And I'm asking if anyone remembered the answer. Anybody?

Nobody.

[Speaker 2]
I don't hear you.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. Sorry.

[Speaker 3]
Can you hear me?

[Speaker 1]
Yes.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah. So, we're studying ACI 15 now, which is a Russian speaking group.

[Speaker 1]
All right. Yes, please, Aiza.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah. And as far as I remember and understood, there is, there are no external things in mind only school, as we think it is external. For example, in the middle way school, when we say external, if you take a needle and the punch, pinch someone, if you don't say, oops, oi, then it is external thing in the middle way.

But in the mind only school, so there is no, there is no such external things. It is, is a bug chuck. Yes, it is, it is part of the your country, but it appears like it is external thing.

If I'm not mistaken.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Just that.

But in last class, we talked, we said that there is actually something out there, right?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. So, yeah. Hold on.

Let me read this one first.

[Speaker 2]
Uh huh. Okay. I found the answer.

[Speaker 1]
Actually, I don't know. I mean, I don't know whether this helps you, uh, Isabel, but, um, I found this, uh, from ACA 15 class, class eight. So according to Je Tsongkapa, we, we talk about mind only, and we always think that it is only in the mind.

But here, the real meaning of mind only is that the mind is the main thing that creates the world. Yeah. So, so we always think that in mind only, everything is in our mind, nothing is out there.

But Je Tsongkapa mentioned that mind only means that the mind is the main thing. It creates the world. And I think this, when you look at this, actually, this is very, it sounds very much like the higher middle way, right?

The mind is the main thing that creates the world. So he says that mind only is an abbreviation for the expression mind alone is the main thing. So, I mean, if we understand this idea, if we understand this phrase, basically, I don't know to me, this looks very much like a higher middle way.

So when I, when I studied ACA 15, I kind of like this statement, which sort of collapsed the two schools into one. Yeah, but definitely, I mean, I don't know why Je Tsongkapa mentioned this, but the mind only is, yeah, there are still differences in the way they look at the world, especially with regards to the foundation consciousness and the messed up consciousness.

[Speaker 3]
Actually, we asked this question, we asked this question from the world, because we couldn't understand why Je Tsongkapa says this, that the mind only is just an abbreviation. But at the same time, there is, there are Shen Wangs and the Yondro that exist by definition. And we couldn't understand and I asked what we are missing.

And he said, you are not missing anything. That's why it's not the highest goal. Because we have this kind of discrepancy.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, that's true. That's true. There's a very good answer.

Yeah. Well, I mean, but to be frank, also, I mean, mixed nuts content is always new, and sometimes can be very confusing. So we just need to cook it, you know.

And it's good that Isabelle asked this question. So at least I can cook it. The reason we look into it is to identify that our daily thinking of existing things is mind only school way.

I don't accept that some things may appear to be separate at a distance, like color blue may appear to be three feet away, but they also hold that it is still in their mind. All gods say that to me in Southern Geshe-la said to that, if the middle we believe there is nothing existing at all, which is extremely netabolic. Can we?

Okay, so let me read again. Hey, don't ask me mind only questions. Can you ask something else?

You ask word. Don't ask me. Why all mind only?

My goodness. Okay, let me read Olga's question. To me, it sounded like Geshe-la said, if the mind, if the middle way believes there is nothing existing at all, which is the extreme we need to avoid, as opposed to mind only, which things do exist, but not the way we think.

Can we clarify, please? If it is indeed so, then we are all together in the mind only school rather than in the middle way. Olga Afzon, I don't understand your question.

You want to speak out? Yeah, that is nothing existing at all is the extreme we want to avoid, right? I don't know.

Geshe-la said that in middle way, middle way belief that nothing exists at all. And then mind only things that things do exist, but not the way we think. Actually, I don't know, to me personally, if you were to ask me about this mind only thing, my understanding is that I always like to use Geshe-la's example of the phone, right?

The phone, two side of the phone. One side is the dependence, the other side is the emptiness. So this is the standard higher middle way that we have learned so far.

And I think all of us are pretty clear. I think all of us are pretty clear of this concept. Now, in order to explain about the mind only concept, with the kunshi, with the refrigerator, we understand that we understand from mind only that they have this consciousness number seven and eight, which number eight is the refrigerator, it holds all the seeds.

And also it holds all the ripened seeds. And because of that, even the seeds are open inside and projected out for us to see outside, right? So in order to explain this, that everything is happening in our mind, the mind only school actually created the construct, the construct, right?

The kuntak. We know about the shenwang and the yongduk, shenwang is the dependence. And then yongduk is the emptiness, the two side of the phone, or the two husbands in the kitchen.

And then in order to, so in the mind only, of course, we have dependence, we have emptiness also. But the mind only idea is that things, even the seeds, the open seeds are projected inside our mind. They have to create the construct, which is the kuntak, that is the one coming, that is outside the mind that we are seeing, we are experiencing.

And this construct, this kuntak, we can, if I remember correctly, it sounds like illusion, it's like illusion. It is something that seems to be outside, but it is actually inside, it opened in our mind. But the kuntak, the illusion that comes out, that is the one that we are seeing, that is the one that we are experiencing.

So basically, this is what I, I mean, to me, to make it simple to understand, this is my understanding of these three. Yeah. Okay.

So, and then what, what does it mean by illusory by two schools? What's the difference? Oh, yeah, I mean, this is my understanding, you know, the kuntak, the kuntak itself, the construct itself is the illusion outside.

Yeah. And this is, this is as far as I understand. I hope it's helpful.

We are all, we are all confused. Anybody wants to add anything?

[Speaker 2]
Didn't Geshe Michael said that the middle way school believes that there's nothing that exists at all? Didn't he say this today?

[Speaker 1]
Well, there is nothing that exists from his own side. There is nothing at all that exists from his own side. And then in mind, in middle way, sorry, are you saying middle way or mind only?

[Speaker 2]
I said in mind only, he said that, and that's, I heard that it is the difference from the, with the middle way that the middle way believes that there is something does exist, but not the way we think. So probably coming from my mind rather than just out there.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, true. Yeah, that's why I, I mean, I, well, I also had that. And then my understanding is telling me that there is nothing outside, but I mean, although there is nothing out there, but there is still something out there, not the way we think it.

And this is basically the, the construct, you know, the illusory, the illusion, the construct. Yeah. That is how I would, I would explain it.

[Speaker 2]
So in this case, what is the, the difference between them, the mind only and the middle way?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, very different, right? In middle way, we say, because it is coming from our seats, because it is coming from our mind, it is real. Whereas the mind only say, because it is coming from our mind, it is not real.

It is illusion. I don't know whether you attended the advanced level one that just in January, you know, Geshe Michael gave an example of a husband wanting to buy birthday present for the wife, and then using the phone, you know, secretly didn't want the wife to see, and then the wife was suspecting something, angry. And then when the husband was in the, was sleeping, or in the, in the toilet, you know, the wife took the phone and realized, actually, the husband is going to Amazon trying to find presents for her, you know.

And then we normally say, luckily, the girlfriend, luckily, the husband's girlfriend is imaginary, you know, luckily, the husband's girlfriend is only in the wife's mind. This is normally what we say. Luckily, the wife is not, is not real.

Sorry, luckily, the boyfriend, girlfriend is not real. Luckily, the girlfriend is only in the wife's mind, you know, this is normally what we say. So this is like the reflect the mind only thinking, whereas in the middle way, we say, only because it is in your mind, then it is real.

Only because it is in your mind, only because it is coming from your seeds, it is real.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
So in our life, in our daily life, we are so used to this mind only thinking. What's the definition of being honest? Okay, Olga, are you, are you?

Okay. So in the mind only, we think that because it is in our mind, then it is not real, because the girlfriend, the husband's girlfriend is in the wife's mind, it is not real. Whereas in the middle way, we say it is real, because it can only be real only because it is coming from the mind from the seeds.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, we come back to you later, if you still have any questions.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, I combine it with what what he said today. Okay. Because today, since he said that the mind only thinks that if things, that things don't exist out there, they exist as a something that we don't think it is, right?

Yes, they, they seem to be out there, but they are not. They are actually inside our mind. And because they what they seem different from what they are.

So they are illusory in this sense. So they are unreal in this sense.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. While in the middle way, they say that nothing exists at all.

[Speaker 1]
No, you have to say in middle way, nothing exists at all from their own side.

[Speaker 2]
But isn't it the same as mind only saying it doesn't exist from its own side out there?

[Speaker 1]
Oh, I see. No, very different from mind only nothing exists from its own side out there. That's why it is illusory.

Middle way, we say nothing exists from its own side out there. And because it is coming from our seeds, it is real. It is real.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, you okay, let me repeat.

[Speaker 1]
Mind only say, it is, there is nothing out there, which is coming from its own side. Yeah. And, and everything is in my mind.

Even the projection is also in the in the eight consciousness. Whereas the higher middle way say, there is nothing out there, which is coming from its own side. And because it is coming from my seeds, it is real.

Yeah. So there is nothing real, which is coming from its own side. But because it is coming from my seeds, it is real.

Mind only seeds projection is in my mind. Therefore, there is nothing out there. But if you see something out there, then it has got to be illusion.

It has got to be illusion.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, I will release and then rethink everything.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you cook it. Yeah, you cook it. All right.

All right. Isabel, what's the definition of being honest? I don't understand.

You want me to define honest for you? Is that your question?

[Speaker 2]
I have a quick question. It's Yeah, the definition because according to the definition on the Diamond Cutter Sutra, the book that we have been reading, this book, I have some questions while having the discussion. So according to the books, it is says that being honest means you have to describe everything and make sure everyone understands as the way you understand.

And then someone reads the objection, and you just cannot make that happen. Because humans see it as pen and dogs see it as a true toy. There can never be the same.

Then in this way, and that means there's no one could ever be honest. So everyone is fighting and then is that means the book is wrong?

[Speaker 1]
Wow. Yeah, I never thought of that too. You see, well, yes, your question is very good, right?

Because we have different seats, we may be looking at things differently, right? So when I show you the pen, I will tell you this is a pen, but the dog will see this as a true toy. So in a sense, in the sense what I have in my mind, and what the dog has in its mind, are different, right?

Now, again, let's remember the hat we are wearing, right? If we want to talk about the higher middle way, right, just now I discussed with Olga Afson, higher middle way means everything is coming from our seats. And because it is coming from our seats, it is real.

Now, when I tell you, for example, Isabel, what I have for breakfast this morning, and then if you don't get what I'm telling you, if let's say this morning, to be honest, I only had one banana, right? Only one banana. And then if I tell you, hey, Isabel, I have a banana for my breakfast this morning.

And then in your mind, you, let's say you don't understand my banana, okay? Maybe you thought of it as apple, right? So when I say banana, and then in your mind is apple, maybe the way I pronounce it was not, or rather, maybe the way I pronounce it was not accurate.

Maybe when I say banana to you, it sounds like apple, right? Well, if we look at it separately, my seats, I look at it as banana, but your seat, you look at it as apple. If we look at different, two different people, your seats and my seats definitely is different, right?

Okay, follow me until here. What your seats will look, will think, will hear, will hear it and think of it as an apple. My seat will think of it and tell you it's banana.

This is, if we were to talk about two different people, but when we talk about higher middle way, right? Even the Isabel that I am seeing, the Isabel Chow that I am talking to, is also coming from my seats, okay? The Isabel that I'm talking to is also coming from my seats.

So, if I tell you I eat banana for breakfast this morning, yeah, if I am telling you the truth, I will see Isabel who will understand that, hey, I eat banana this morning, okay? Because you are coming from my seats, I will still see you understanding that as banana. But from your seats, if you have different seats from me, when I tell you I eat banana, you may think of it as apple.

From the third people, the third person, he will say, oh, Sugeng talking about banana, Isabel talking about apple, right? So, from my side, I still see you as understanding it as banana. From my side, I am being honest.

From your side, you don't have issue because you thought of it as apple. Now, the problem is the third person. The third person sees Sugeng said banana, the third person sees Isabel understand as apple.

So, the third person has the dishonest issue. From Sugeng's side, I will still see you understand it as banana so that I don't have any honesty issue. This is what I would answer you.

Yes, I agree with Olga Fitzgerald. We should focus on motivation also about being honest. Yeah, yeah, correct motivation.

So, if I have a right motivation to tell the truth, my seed will project me, my seed will force me to see that Isabel understand the banana I'm eating for my breakfast. Okay. I hope that answers the question.

[Speaker 2]
Nice one. Thank you very much.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. My pleasure. My pleasure.

You know, there are many times in life, we forget to look at it from our perspective only. I like to quote this example. Let's say we are walking outside on the street and then we see a mother, we see a mother with a son, with a baby, with a son.

And then the son was not behaving well. And then the mother was actually scolding the son. You know, and then we always like to ask the questions, what seed is the mother planting by scolding the son?

And then we also like to ask, what seeds does the son have to be scolded by the mother? Right? This is our common question.

Agree? Agree? I mean, we always, when, or let's say we see a situation when some, yeah, whatever, you know, in, yeah, thank you.

Thank you for the answer. We always, always like to ask these questions. Let's say we say, we see A lie to B.

So we always ask, what seeds is A planting by lying to B? And what seed does B has to be lied to by A? You know, this is always our questions, but I always like to ask back.

When people ask me these questions, I always ask them back. I always ask them back. Is that the right question to ask?

Why do you have to know other people's seeds? I think you should just ask yourself, what seeds do you have to see the mother scolding the boy? What seeds do you have to see A lie to B?

You know, I think that is a more appropriate and more correct questions. Yeah. So if you, I mean, if we can remember this, we can resolve a lot of issues in our life.

And also we can explain a lot of, well, a lot of discrepancies and confusion in life.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
A bit of my sharing. Thank you. Thank you for the vote.

Yes, Olga Afson.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. If there are no other questions, I have another one.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, sure. Please, please.

[Speaker 2]
So the question is about faith and what are the seeds for faith? Because when I was thinking faith, to believe sincerely in something, strongly and sincerely faith. Yeah.

Because I couldn't come up. What are the seeds for faith? I had many ideas to discuss it with many people.

They also, but these ideas don't work for me, for example, because faith is something that we cannot control. Right. So we either have it either or not.

Same as doubt. So there must be, it must be coming from seeds. And sometimes we also have faith in the wrong things.

So how the question is, how to have the faith in the right thing that actually will help us. Yeah. For example, for example, for example, by supporting when we sometimes people think we must support others faith and that will be the seeds for faith, but supporting whatever they believe.

Um, just like if we try to avoid bringing doubt to anyone, that's some kind of wrong seeds because we might plant the seeds of faith in the wrong things. If we just support any faith that people have from another side, when we develop our other people's faith in what we believe, what we believe only, then it puts down other religions. So also, um, not very good seeds.

Um, sometimes people reject our system of belief when we make them have faith in this, that also not good seeds. And, um, if, uh, you, if I, for example, have even a slight doubt myself, I believe in something, but not a hundred percent then, uh, and I'm trying to make others believe in it, then this means, uh, you make others believe in what you're unsure of. So also not good seeds.

From another point of view, if we suggest them to listen and analyze that will may, that might bring them doubt instead of faith. If they think too much in question too much.

[Speaker 1]
Beautiful, beautiful question. I used to think a lot about this beautiful question, you know, why we have so many faiths in this world. We have major religions.

We have, uh, we have, uh, I shouldn't say minor, but we have many, many other beliefs in the world. Right. And well, of course, uh, we have our own opinion.

Ours is the best. Otherwise we wouldn't be here. Right.

Others are not the best. And, and why don't, why can't they, uh, learn about the seed system, for example. Right.

Yeah. So, yeah. Thank you all for the, uh, for the text personally, or rather it's not just personally I have learned.

I have, uh, I have cooked it with the seed system that I've learned so far. And, um, you see, I, over the years I have seen people who come into the seed system. They learn it.

They love it. They use it. They were successful.

And then they left. They left meaning that they don't want to plant seeds anymore. And then I saw people who, no matter what I tell them, they just don't believe in the seed system.

They just don't want to, to use the seed system to them is, uh, to them is a BS or something, you know? Yeah. Okay.

Now, um, and then I understand, or rather I learned that all these are part of the correct worldview. And in order for us to have the correct worldview, we need to learn the seeds, right? Correct worldview also requires seeds.

How do we plan the seeds for correct worldview? We, first of all, we, ourself, we have to do our best to have the correct worldview all the time. That will help us to have the seeds to have the correct worldview.

It sounds like the chicken and egg, but we need to always do our best to have the correct worldview. For example, when I, let's say, when I quarrel with my wife, I need to force myself to tell me, Hey, this must be coming from my seeds. Lately.

It's pretty easy. When I see my wife is not respecting me. Most of the time I can trace it back to the time when I don't respect my mom.

Okay. Maybe I saw my wife not respecting me this morning, making me feeling irritated. When I think back, most of the time I was not respecting my mom, like few days ago, you know?

So it's very fast, but it is not something easy. It is not something easy. And we always like to believe, Hey, she just purposely want to make me angry, you know, like the, like the two husband in the kitchen.

So by forcing ourself to reflect on this and always have the correct worldview, we are planting the seeds for us to have the correct worldview. Now, when we, when the seeds for correct worldview is gone, when the seeds to have the correct teaching is gone, then of course we will go away from the system, including people who don't believe in the seed system, people who don't believe in the cause and effect, people, people who don't believe in the emptiness, despite our best effort to use the pen story to tell them, despite our effort to use the two husband in the kitchen to try to open their mind. And a lot of time, a lot of time to me, a lot of time, I look at it as they don't have the correct worldview and they are teaching the wrong view to other people. Okay.

This is my first conclusion. So why do we have faith? Why do we not have faith?

It's very much related to our own correct worldview and whether we are teaching people the correct worldview, if we have, if we are always misleading people with the wrong worldview, with the, away from understanding of the emptiness and the cause and effect, then we will always, we will, we will not really have, have the faith in something, which is the ultimate. Okay. This is on one hand.

On the other hand, what is more important is to ask back myself, what seeds do I have to see people who don't want to believe in the seed system? What seeds do I have to see people who don't have faith in this seed system, which is to ask the ultimate. When I reflect back on this second scenario, it is very much related to me forgetting about the seeds whenever I have, I have problem, especially when I see my children don't behave well, especially when I see my mom being old people, what do you call that?

You know, old people sometimes forget about what they have said and then they keep on repeating again. And then when my mom is nagging, you know, and then I just feel irritated. Mom, you have said that it's not dementia.

It's not dementia. I mean, well, yeah, maybe, maybe dementia is the serious case. For her, it's like nagging, you know, remember to do this, remember to do that.

I say, Mom, you just need to tell me once I will do it. You see, so forgetting that that is coming from my own seeds. And those are the seeds that will ripen up into my environment, seeing people don't have faith in the ultimate, you see.

So, yeah, I think at the end of the day, to me personally, I like to look back at myself. And it's kind of fun because I can change myself. But of course, I think all of you need to, I won't say amnesia.

Of course, remember, we are mature seed practitioners. I don't want you to arrive at an extent when, anyway, let's not let's not guess the word, okay? Just all people like to repeat things.

Yeah. I don't want you to come to an extent when everything becomes your own problem, you start to blame yourself and then you don't want to, you don't want to use the seed system anymore. You know, I saw, I saw quite a few people experiencing that.

I wonder what seeds I have to see all those things. So, yeah, so always come back to ourselves and see what seeds we have.

[Speaker 2]
May I comment on that, please? Yes, please. You are all, all of this response that you just gave, it is based basically on what I mentioned in explanation.

It is all based in you believing that this seed system and the Buddha's teachings are the only right teachings in the world. But as I mentioned, as I mentioned, there are other belief systems and also other enlightened beings like Jesus, like, I don't know, Krishna, like whatever, many, right, who taught different things. So do you understand what I mean that we by kind of insisting that only this is true practicing and all of your response, this means that we are kind of putting down other beliefs, but maybe for other people, other following other paths is more correct and they should believe in that.

[Speaker 1]
So, yeah, I'm, I'm, that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying, because we have all this thinking and we think that they are, well, I mean, sorry, before that, before that, we need to really go through the clear thinking, the logic to analyze about different belief systems. I would suggest that you go through the Siddhanta by Ben Kramer, and we actually discussed quite thoroughly about different belief systems.

And, and if you, if you follow through the Siddhanta discussion, it's not about us believing that Buddha's teaching is the, is the ultimate, but if you, if you put them, all of them through the, through the proper test, right, you will realize that the ultimate is still the one that we are learning, the higher Middle Way. So, well, it's not about us putting others down, but based on the thorough logical analysis, that is the conclusion that we can get into.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
In fact, if you, I like, I love this ACF 15 a lot, you know, and in class 10, even Jetsongkapa mentioned, right, after we go through all this analysis, even after we go through all this analysis, let me quote him well, right. Yeah. After we go through this analysis, who on earth, who understood all these things would fail to take the system of the realized being, Nagarjuna, as their own, or rather you can just use realized beings, right.

After you go, after you have done all the analysis, who on earth, who on earth who understood all those things would fail to take the system of the realized beings as their own, you know. So, I think this is, this is very beautiful and it sums up the discussion very well. Yeah.

So, after you have done thorough analysis, you wouldn't fail to take the system of the realized beings. Here realized being Nagarjuna, you can change to any realized beings. Yeah.

If they are really the realized beings, yeah. I heard definition of faith, certainty, that something's possible. We just have teachers helping us to learn, come from this school.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. True. Yeah.

So, I think Siddhanta is a very good text for us to go through all these things, right. Okay. We have four minutes left.

Let me quickly go through Liu Yingying's question, if you allow me.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Isabel, let me answer Yingying's question, right. Olga, use the logic and test them, okay.

Use your logic and test them. All right. We went through this, I think in ACI 4, I think.

ACI 4. Okay. ACI 4, we went through this discussion already.

Okay. Liu Yingying talking about the will of life and her question is that, okay. Oh, yeah.

It's translated already, right. What does trigger mean? And how does it have to do with seed and cause and effect?

Okay. I would like to look at it this way, right. The whole will is the cause and effect.

The whole will is one cause and effect. Cause is the seed, right. And then we say the fresh karma is the one that plant the seeds and then the ripened karma number.

So, fresh karma number two is planting the seeds and then ripened karma number 10 is the result of the effect, is the result of the seed, right. So, that is the whole cause and effect. But we have many links.

The links are sort of like the small components of the one cause and effect. This is how I would look at it. The will has 12 links.

Yeah. So, basically there is one cause, there is one effect. Anything in between are just the smaller components of the small cause and effect.

Maybe you can look at it like, what's the term? Well, I think you just look at it that number two is the cause, number 10 is the effect. And then anything in between is just a smaller components to form this cause and effect.

That is how I would look at it, right. Of course, each link is the trigger for the next link. So, you can look at them as the cause and effect also.

Each link is a trigger of the next link. For example, link one trigger link two, link two triggers link three. So, you can say link one is the cause of link two, link two is the cause of link three, kind of thing and so on.

So, that is the simple explanation. And then the next one is the, yeah. Okay.

So, misunderstanding link one and initial desire link eight trigger advanced desire link nine. How can we apply it in life? Good question.

I haven't really thought about it yet. I also just learned about it, which is pretty exciting. So, I would say link nine will trigger link 10, right?

Link nine will trigger link 10. Link 10 is the ripened seeds, which is the flowering of the seeds, right? The fruit of the seed.

So, we always say that we always say that the whole wheel, number one is very important, misunderstanding. If we want the wheel to stop, we need to stop the number one, right? But here, based on this understanding, there is another way for us to stop the wheel also.

So, it is not just number one. In fact, in order to stop the wheel, in order to stop the fruit, even though we have done number one, we can stop it at link number eight. Okay.

Let me repeat, right? We always say that the wheel of life, the main link, the main culprit is link number one, which is misunderstanding. That is okay.

That is correct. But that is not the only way to stop the wheel. What happened if I already have misunderstanding and planted planted the bad seeds, right?

The good news here is that, because one plus eight trigger nine, and then nine will trigger 10. In order to prevent the 10 from being triggered, even though we have one, we can stop it at number eight. Yeah.

Yeah. So, let me repeat. So, the bad seeds will ripen in link 10.

It's a ripened seed. And we always thought that the whole wheel is started by number one, which is misunderstanding. Now, understanding, now, knowing the new formula, one plus eight trigger nine, and then nine will trigger 10.

So, in order for 10 not to be triggered, we should stop number nine from being triggered. And then to stop number nine, we can stop number eight also. Yeah.

So, this is another option that we can explore. So, that number 10 is not being triggered easily. All right.

So, this is in simple way to answer your questions of what we just discussed, I think, last week, right? For the Wheel of Life. All right.

Okay. And thank you very much, Olga and Isabel, having a discussion in the chat box. And I think the time is up.

If... Wow. Wow.

The discussion is so deep. Anyway, I'm not going to get involved, okay? You can continue offline.

So, if you have any more questions, you can ask the team. Team is going to host the Q&A sessions on Friday. Friday.

Okay. Friday morning, which is Friday evening. Yeah.

All right. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you very much for accompanying me.

Have a good day for those in the Western part of the world and have a good evening for those in Asia. Bye-bye. Thank you very much.

[Speaker 3]
Bye-bye.