Сугэн Ши — Книга 2: Колесо жизни (первый принцип и подразделения зависимости), занятие 28

[Speaker 3]
Good morning. Good morning, everyone.

[Speaker 1]
Good morning, Nick. Don't yell at me. I'm not yelling.

I'm very soft.

[Speaker 3]
Let's see. Hi. How's it going?

[Speaker 1]
Exciting.

[Speaker 3]
Exciting.

[Speaker 1]
Good. Hi, Xin Tian.

[Speaker 3]
Hi, Nick.

[Speaker 1]
Good morning. Thank you. That's more like it.

You guys are partying right now. Party? Partying.

Partying. Should we start with the homework? Oh, yeah.

[Speaker 3]
Do it.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, no. Oh, yeah.

[Speaker 3]
It's easy.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, good.

[Speaker 3]
It's easy.

[Speaker 1]
That's the best kind of homework. Yeah, it's easy. Let's start.

Oops, did I... Salamat pagi. I put the wrong one.

Sorry. I was learning Russian, you know. This one is...

I don't know. Whatever it is. Is that right?

Something like that.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Anybody remember what are the three foundational practices of Vinaya? Anybody?

[Speaker 3]
Is this thing about first restraint of hurting others?

[Speaker 1]
No, not that one.

[Speaker 3]
Collect the beer, too.

[Speaker 1]
No, the practice. Oh, sojong.

[Speaker 3]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Yes. Just turning the kick in. Which is bimonthly confession ceremony.

And then what I did. Yes, in English. The rains retreat.

Summer retreat.

[Speaker 3]
Oh, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
And then the other one. The party time after the summer. The party time.

Yeah. The break after the summer retreat. All right.

Okay, now let's come back to the wheel of life. What is the cause of misunderstanding as the first link? And what is the conditional cost for that?

[Speaker 3]
Ignorance.

[Speaker 1]
Yi che, right? There's this Yi che thing. Direct seeing things appearing to you as if they had some nature of their own.

So, yes, the cause is the misunderstanding. And then the conditional cause is the... The Yi che.

Yi che. Things appearing wrong. They're wrong.

So the misunderstanding itself and the conditional cost of it. The conditional cost of it looking at or thinking of things the wrong way. It is, if you want to fix that.

The conditional cost of it looking at or thinking.

[Speaker 3]
Is looking at things. Looking at. You were so close.

[Speaker 1]
You got it right the first time with the... Oh, sorry. Yeah, yeah.

All right. Why can't we have another link before the first link of misunderstanding? And why can't we have more links of the link 12?

It's too expensive. Who would have said so?

[Speaker 3]
Then the wonderful first link will have another first link.

[Speaker 1]
And it's infinite.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
And so, yeah, the first one. Because the conditional cost for the first one is different from the conditional cost for the other links. They are different.

That's why we can't have another link before the first link, right? And why can't we have more links of the link 12? Because you're dead.

Say again? I don't know. Because you're dead.

[Speaker 3]
Too similar.

[Speaker 1]
And what? Too similar. After link number 12, you are dead.

[Speaker 3]
You would have infinitely more.

[Speaker 1]
That is pretty funny. Yes, Venerable Bala? You would have infinitely more links.

There we go, sir. Every link, any other links after that. Any link after the 12 links is all subsumed in the link of the initial desire.

Oh. Yeah, this is interesting. I think it's advanced desire.

Advanced? Number nine, or advanced? Okay.

Oh, okay. Okay, thank you. All right.

These are the easy ones. Sisum Choga? The Three Foundational Practices.

Three Foundational Practices. Sojong! I think this is too easy, right?

Confession Ceremony. Bi-Monthly Confession Ceremony. Yane.

[Speaker 3]
Summer Retreat.

[Speaker 1]
Summer Retreat. And Gakje!

[Speaker 3]
Big Party Time.

[Speaker 1]
Party Time. Good morning, Geshe-la. Good morning.

[Speaker 3]
Good morning.

[Speaker 1]
Man, I'm sleepy. I don't know about you guys.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah. Me too.

[Speaker 1]
All right. Now, this is the text. And I don't know.

I tried my best. And somehow the English, I hope, can flow. But it's a bit funny.

Especially the last one, Geshe-la. Can you scroll down just a little bit? There you go.

Sorry. Well, let's do it this way. Hi, good morning.

marikpa kyen gyi du che. What does that mean? When the kyen of marikpa causes du che.

Sorry. So repeat again, Geshe-la. When the condition of marikpa causes du che.

Oh, when the condition of the misunderstanding is causing the fresh karma. Is that right? Yeah, good.

Fresh karma. Yeah. Then when we say that misunderstanding is triggering karma.

Well, what is the misunderstanding you're mentioning there? Okay. What does misunderstanding mean?

Okay. Oh, got it. I see.

Okay. Yeah. When you say that fresh karma comes from the condition of misunderstanding, karma.

What do you mean by that kind of misunderstanding?

[Speaker 3]
Geshe-la.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah? Is that kyen definitely condition or is it link here? You can say link.

Link is fine. Okay. I think we better say kyen for condition and yanlak for link maybe.

Okay. I'm just suggesting. We'll see how it goes as we go on.

Good. Okay. Yeah.

When we answer the question, what is misunderstanding, we do it in terms of the Geshe-la. Talking about what is misunderstanding in this minute, right? Yeah, that's pretty good.

Yeah, it's pretty good. When we say misunderstanding, what we mean is something which is not understanding, right? Right?

Yeah. Yeah. When we answer the question, what is misunderstanding, what we mean is it is not understanding.

Okay? And that's what misunderstanding is. So, we have used a negative expression.

gopay nam dang means we have used a negative expression. So, when we say marikpa, it's a negative expression meaning something which is not knowing. Okay.

Or something which is not understanding.

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[Speaker 3]
All right. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, thank you. I will rearrange here. And then this one.

Yeah, and then it gets into something really interesting. And then, yeah, let's look at the seven types of meaning here. Meaning, seven ways of negating understanding.

Okay? So, when you say not understanding, the not can have seven different flavors. And we have to decide which one Buddha is talking about.

There's seven flavors of not, and only one of them is the one that we want. And it's kind of a game. It's like Vasubandhu says, Hey, not understanding, misunderstanding, the miss can have seven different meanings.

Let's look at them, and then I want you guys to guess which one we're talking about.

[Speaker 3]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
Wow. Okay. And somehow I just cannot put the English right.

I just don't understand. Yeah, sometimes a term of negation, and that's going to be the subject in each sentence here. Sometimes a term of negation means we are canceling the existence of something.

We are negating the existence of something. So, that would be like saying a lack of understanding. See what I mean?

So, and then I think there's a pun in the Sanskrit here. Because what's the definition of existing thing in Sanskrit? Anything that holds to itself.

Yeah, anything that holds its own nature. RANG GI NGO BO RDZIN PA'I NA CHOS The definition of dharma is that thing which holds its own nature. Anything which holds its own nature is dharma.

It's an existing entity. I think he's making a joke here. And when you say the definition of a dharma is that which holds its own nature, that's a pun on the root dir.

So, d-h-i-r is the root of dharma. And when they give the definition of dharma in Sanskrit, they say dharma is the thing that dirs its own nature. So, it's a pun.

See what I mean? Then Tibetans very carefully translate it and lose the meaning completely. They say, we call things chir because they dzin.

And then it's one of those words like arhat that never gets explained correctly. You have to know Sanskrit to know that the Tibetans didn't translate it right. Or they didn't express it correctly.

So, what it's saying here is, when you say misunderstanding, you could be saying not existing. You could be negating the existence of the thing altogether. And then it would no longer hold.

It would no longer hold anything. Meaning, that's a joke. It would no longer be a dharma.

Okay? Okay? Okay.

Yeah, and since it no longer holds its own nature, it would no longer be a ngopo. Here ngopo doesn't mean what? Functioning?

Yeah, it doesn't mean functional thing. It means... Existing?

Yeah, existing thing. So, the first meaning of a negative particle, like misunderstanding, is to say that the thing doesn't have any nature, and therefore it doesn't exist at all. Okay.

Now, Sugeng. Yes? Is the first link the fact that nobody in the universe knows anything?

Is that the first link? No, no. No, it's not.

Okay, so you can cancel that negative. Okay. Okay, so we're going to vote for seven people.

All right. And the first one gets kicked out because he wants to say, no understanding of anywhere in the universe. Okay.

Okay, Geshe-la, before we continue, there is a message for... It's from Russian team. Happy birthday to Gushal Abdurashitova.

Hey Gushal, if you're lucky, Sugeng will not sing happy birthday. All right. Happy birthday to you.

Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to Gushal. Happy birthday to you.

You got a great voice. Yeah. Geshe-la, before that...

Oh yeah, that's Gushal. Hi, Gushal. Hi, Gushal.

Happy birthday.

[Speaker 3]
Thank you so much. Thank you. Please stay with us.

Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
I hope you have earplugs in. Geshe-la, before we continue, I have one thing to clarify. When we talk about this, the book...

Yeah. Actually, there's another one, right? So, rather than Karmashataka, it is Ekottara Karmashataka.

So, should I use this rather than the Karmashataka? Well, your author used Karmashataka, so I would use that. I see.

And that's a lot more common.

[Speaker 3]
This is more common, right?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, as a book name. As the actual rituals themselves, it's 101 is more common, okay? I see, okay.

But as a book name, Karmashataka is more common.

[Speaker 3]
All right.

[Speaker 1]
And by the way, there's a later Karmashataka, if you want to know, which means if you meditate a lot, you become Shatkarma. Shatkarma? You reverse the order, Shatkarma.

And it means you're able to do a hundred projects at once and still maintain your meditation and your calmness, okay? So, that's a famous... Shatkarma is a famous expression that came out of Karmashataka, which means that if you meditate correctly, you don't have to sit in your house all day to be calm.

You can go out and run a big business and still be calm, okay? You can do a hundred things at once. So, you're called the Shatkarma.

So, in that case, it doesn't mean a hundred rituals. It means doing a hundred things at once and you don't get nervous or you don't get tired or like that. Wow, all right.

Thank you, wow. I want that. That's a Shatkarma commentary.

All right, here we go. Let's get to work, you lazy boys. Nice homework, by the way.

Thank you, Geshe-la. Let's see. When I chose your selection, I jumped ahead and we didn't finish the last part of the last section, okay?

So, we were just finishing up the summary of the whole book and the first principles. And then your part is down here and you started the seven meanings of negative, okay? And then we were going to try to guess which of the seven applies to our book, okay?

But we didn't finish the first principle section up here. So, let's go there. Oh, hang on a second.

Let me give you a nice cursor. Okay. I think Gyelse wants to check you.

She's so bright and cheerful this morning. Thank you. I'm far from that.

Yeah, good. And it's not the case that the links become endless. So, tupa mepa means endless, okay?

So, he's talking about, is there a link after 12, right? He says, no, it's not the case that there's a billion links. Why?

Because they repeat each other. They tend to repeat each other, okay? As soon as you're done with dying, it's time to misunderstand again.

Okay. So, he says it's like the ja and the gong-er. The bird and the...

And the egg. It's like the chicken and the egg.

[Speaker 3]
And the egg, ah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. He said it's like the chicken and the egg, okay? So, the link number 12 tends to give birth to another egg.

Link number one. So, you don't have to think about 13, 14, 15. That the chicken gives an egg of its own kind, and then it starts over again in a cycle, in a circle.

Okay, cool. Chikla chikyen chepa means each link tends to act as a trigger for the next link. And they tend to repeat themselves.

So, don't worry that there's going to be a thousand links. There's only 12. And because they tend to perpetuate each other, it's like a chicken and an egg.

I see. Keshela, what is dengyi? What does it refer to?

[Speaker 3]
The link before and the link after?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah. The two links. Okay.

I see.

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
So.

[Speaker 3]
Now, please repeat that.

[Speaker 1]
Please read, and Gyelse is going to check you. di ta te gyupa yi la chepa ni mongpa le kyepa yin no she te nyi ne sung so Yeah. Now, this is the same gupa as we see it in words text, okay?

And what's it mean there? Do you remember? It's like if you spray perfume on your clothing.

Or smear. Yeah. I don't know how you want to say it.

Imbue? Imbue it with a scent or something like that. Imbue.

So, we can say infected almost, okay? Infected. So, gupa yi la chepa ni.

It is. The stain. The...

How do you say? The infection called yi la chepa. tsul shin mayinpa yi la chepa.

The infection is called tsul shin mayinpa yi la chepa.

[Speaker 3]
Which is what?

[Speaker 1]
Looking at things the wrong way. Looking at things the wrong way. It's triggered by mongpa.

Darkness? Misunderstanding? Yeah, meaning misunderstanding, okay?

Thinking of things the wrong way is triggered by misunderstanding. Hey, but we just said that... The other way around.

But we just said that thinking of things the wrong way triggers the misunderstanding. And then Vasubandhu says, no, the misunderstanding triggers the thinking of things the wrong way. Because it's like a...

Chicken and egg. Chicken and an egg, okay? Thinking of things the wrong way triggers misunderstanding.

And then the misunderstanding triggers more thinking of things the wrong way. And you don't have to add links in the front of number one. Okay, cool?

Okay. The chepa, you know, chepa nyi ne, denyi ne. So, the same source.

And by the way, we don't have the source anymore. He's just quoting some source that's talking about the Wheel of Life, okay? Okay.

Okay. Dr. Camel wants... Camel wants to...

Not camel. Camel. I saw a nice show about camels last night.

My mind's on that. Okay. chepa dang, chepa dang marikpa nyi kyang chu ngumpe, luk gi lenpay nang du ndupe jiro shen na Okay, good.

yen la kun shen lai kyen ni yinpa sungpay chu Look, isn't it the case that all of the 12 links act as triggers for each other? Okay? Isn't it the case that you have links inside the 12 acting as triggers for each other out of order?

Okay? Isn't it the case that they're all interconnected? And in a way, they're all triggering each other.

Don't we see that? Don't we see people say that? But you didn't...

Then you shouldn't talk about any triggers here, because they're all acting as triggers for each other. And in the system of chunlumba... Abhidharma.

Yeah, in the Abhidharma system, gyepa, sepa, and dangpo marikpa, fresh initial desire and misunderstanding, are actually included into gupa lempa. Oh, the advanced desire. Yeah, advanced desire.

So doesn't the Abhidharma system include links number one and eight into link number nine? Aren't there cross references going on here? You know, how can you say it's one wheel going da-da-da-da-da-da?

Aren't the links triggering each other across the wheel? See?

[Speaker 3]
Wow, okay.

[Speaker 1]
This is really interesting. Campbell, you want to keep going? Okay.

When you... What's the utpala? The blue lotus.

Sleeping. Oh, yeah. The blue lotus.

When you say that the ken, or the condition, or the factor, or the trigger for an utpala flower, is its sawa? The root? Yeah, is its root.

DEM DU ZIN KYANG You may have all... ZIN means past tense, right? You may have already mentioned that the root of a utpala lotus is its trigger, or its cause, right?

But, SA BA RKYEN YIN PA BRJOD PA'I PHYIR RGYUD MED PA CHEN NYID DU RGYUR BA MA YIN Just because you've said that the root is the ken, you're not saying that it's without cause. Just because the root is the condition, you are not saying it doesn't have a cause. When you say that something has a condition, you're not saying it doesn't have a cause.

It's a double negative here. When you say that something has a trigger, we're not saying it doesn't have a cause. Okay?

Okay? So those are not exclusive. Keep going.

Dr. Campbell, one more sentence. DER MA RIG PA'I RGYEN MA BRJOD PA'I PHYIR RGYUD MED PA CHEN NYID DU RGYUR PA NYID NA GANG GIS PHYIR KHOR BA LA RTOGS MA YOD PA NYID DU BRTEL BAR RGYUR Good. Now, did we mention a ken for marigpa here?

Yeah, just now. I mean, at the top. I mean, in general, do we talk a lot about the ken of marigpa?

No, not really. Yeah, we kind of mentioned marigpa as the beginning of everything. We mentioned it as link number one, right?

Yes. So, just because we don't mention a trigger for the first link doesn't mean it's gyu me. Uh-huh, doesn't mean it doesn't have any cause.

Yeah, just because we didn't mention a link before misunderstanding, doesn't mean it doesn't have a cause. GANG GIS PHYIR And for that reason, KHOR BA LA RTOGS MA YOD PA NYID DU BRTEL BAR RGYUR If it did have a... You know, you're thinking that sansara should have a beginning, okay?

Because we didn't mention a ken for marigpa, okay? But just because we didn't mention a trigger for misunderstanding, doesn't mean it doesn't have a cause. And it doesn't mean that we're saying sansara has no beginning.

Sorry, that sansara does have a beginning because we didn't mention a cause for the first link, okay? Okay. Did we mention a trigger for the first link?

No. Does that mean it doesn't have a cause? No.

Therefore, it doesn't mean that sansara does have a beginning. Okay, just because we didn't mention a condition or a trigger for link number one, doesn't mean it doesn't have a cause. And it doesn't mean that sansara has a beginning.

Yeah, so the part where sansara doesn't have a beginning, do we say RTOGS MA YOD? RTOGS MA YOD means... Yeah.

No beginning or has beginning. Yeah, RTOGS MA YOD PA. This MA in RTOGS MA is not negative.

Not negative, okay. Yeah, if marigpa didn't have a cause, then it's true, sansara would have to have a beginning. Okay, got it.

[Speaker 3]
But it doesn't.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you. Okay. All right.

Okay, please read in Venerable Utpala, since it's talking about her, she wants to check you. Thank you. GANG GI PHYIR DIR MARIG PAS KHYEN BCUG PAR MI BYA BA DE NI DAG GIS THUD RTOGS PAS DE NYID KYIS KYANG GYIS LA DGOS BA'I SKABS MED PA YIN NO Okay.

And GANG GI PHYIR means, if you want more reasoning here, okay, it means why. Why, okay. DIR MARIG PAS KHYEN BCUG PAR MI BYA BA The trigger for the first link misunderstanding has not been stated here.

BCUG PAR MI BYA BA, okay. The Buddha didn't give a trigger for the first link, okay. DAG GIS THUGS I...

DAG GIS THUGS, I... Yeah. I say it?

I know that. I know that. Yeah, I'm not stupid, okay.

I also understand that the Buddha didn't give a trigger for the first link. I understand that, okay. So DE NYID KYIS KYANG, for that reason, what?

I get it. I know he didn't give a link before that. DGOS BA'I SKABS MED PA YIN NO So don't hassle me.

There's no reason why you should be hassling me, okay. I'm not stupid. I know link number one doesn't have a link in front of it, but that doesn't mean link number one isn't caused by something.

Come on, you know. You're not telling me anything new. Okay.

Wow, very conversational, huh?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Keep going. Let's go. Yeah.

DE NYID KYIS KYANG RGA SHI'I OG TU YAN LAG GZHAN MA SPYOD LA KHOR BA LA THA MA YOD PAR THAL BA YANG MA YIN NO Yeah, and for the same reason, he didn't mention, for the same reasons, he didn't mention a YAN LAG RGA SHI'I OG TU. What's that mean? He doesn't mention about the end of the link 12, the old age and death.

Yeah, OG TU means after, okay? After, after. It means under, literally, okay?

Okay, so look, for the same reason, Buddha didn't mention a link after link number 12, okay? But that doesn't mean KHOR BA LA THA MA YOD. There is a beginning of the wheel.

THA MA, THA MA means end, okay? Oh, there's an end of the wheel. Yeah, now, technically, there is a THA MA, you know?

Oh, okay, yeah, yeah. But it's not when you die, okay? Yeah, okay.

So he means an ending in the sense of after you die, okay? Okay, yeah. Interesting.

All right, Hasso, you're still on. Yeah, good. GZHAN BDAG NA RE What's that mean, you guys?

Someone else might come along. Yeah, now somebody else comes up and says, when you, when you get to link number six, which is what? Contact.

Yeah, when you get to contact, okay, link number six, you're already talking about ZUL BZHIN MA YIN PA YI LA BYED PA Or wrong, looking at things the wrong way. Yeah, as soon as you have contact between awareness and its object, then you're already implying that the mind is thinking about things the wrong way, okay? So, therefore, in other sutras, DOR DE GZHAN LAS The time when you get thinking of wrong things the wrong way is during link number?

Six. Six, okay. Six.

Okay. Because, MONG BA, or misunderstanding, occurs through the touching of MIG with ZUGS. The viewing and the object?

Yeah, when the eye and the visible form, you got to translate this ZUGS as visible form, right? Visible form, okay. When the eye meets visible form, MIG DANG ZUGS LA BRTEN NAS MONG BA LAS CHUNG BA Then you get misunderstanding, and then you get the infection called looking at things the wrong way, okay?

So, he says, look, it's not leading into link number one, that you start thinking of things the wrong way. It happens at link number six, and lots of sutras talk about it, okay? Lots of sutras say, that as soon as your eye make contact with something attractive, then you start thinking the wrong way, okay?

So, it's not so related to link number one, it's more related to link number six, okay? And... Okay.

This is the five, six points of Maitreya, the thing that we discussed a few days ago, right? It's very... It's definitely...

You know, when he first mentioned thinking of things the wrong way, he said other sutras talk about it, and the description by Maitreya is one of the other sutras.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Utpala wants to... Let's go back to Utpala.

CHOR BA THAMS PA'I KYANG MA RIG PA THAMS PA YIN TE MA RIG PA'I NUS TE RIG PA LA SKYES PA'I CHOR BA LA BRTEN NAS SRED PA SKYE'O SRED PA SKYE'O SHES MDO DE GZHAN LAS GSUNGS PA'I MDO DE GZHAN LAS GSUNGS PA DE DAG THAMS CES KYANG NDIR MI RJUG PAR THAL BAR NGYUR BA'I KHYON DU RGYUR RO Then, this is our response to him, okay? Well, listen. When the sutras talk about the seventh link, which is what?

Feeling? Yeah, they also mention misunderstanding at that time. So, when other sutras talk about feelings, they also mention in that context misunderstanding.

Okay? And then there's a technical kind of contact called MA RIG PA'I NUS TE RIG PA So, usually when you teach the sixth link, of contact, you also mention what's connected with it, okay? For example, we say MI GYI DU DE RIG PA NA BA'I DU DE RIG PA NA'I DU DE RIG PA CHAD DU DE RIG PA So, when you teach the sixth link, normally you say what's linked up with it at that moment, okay?

And does sutras talk about link number six as being linked up with misunderstanding, and then that triggers SOR BA. The link number seven, which is the feeling. So, link number six, connected up with misunderstanding, triggers link number seven.

Okay? And this is an interesting thing. When you get deep into the wheel, it's not that you have misunderstanding, and then that triggers karma, and then that triggers your mind coming into your mom, and that triggers mind and form in your mom's body.

It's not like that. Every single link is infected with misunderstanding. And that's an important point in the Wheel of Life, okay?

So, he wanted to say, Oh, look, when the sutras talk about contact, they often mention misunderstanding and thinking of things the wrong way. So, shouldn't we have them as extra links there also? And then we say, well, listen, when the sutras talk about contact that's infected with thinking of things the wrong way, that contact also causes a feeling, which is again infected by thinking of things the wrong way.

I mean, you're going to have links on every link, you know? Okay? And then, because of that kind of, because of the link number seven, which has thinking of things the wrong way, because it came from link number six that also had thinking of things the wrong way, then you get link number sepa.

On number eight. Yeah, number eight, also thinking of things the wrong way. Like, lots of sutras talk about that.

So, why don't we just add, if you want to add thinking of things the wrong way to link number six and then add misunderstanding to link number six because during link number six you're thinking of things the wrong way, well then, let's add it to link number seven and link number eight too. Okay? Because there's sutras that mention that also.

So, he's trying to say I don't know why you're giving a special status to thinking of things the wrong way as I can, as a contributing factor for link number one because it's also a factor in many other links, okay? And we say, yeah, I know. It is a factor in many other links.

That's why we're not going to add it everywhere, including to number one. Okay? Okay?

Got it? Yeah, interesting. Now, this is a big moment in your text, okay?

And I added the root sutra, okay? So, this book is supposed to be a commentary on the first sutra about dependent origination. But so far we haven't had the root text commentary, root text commentary like with Nick's book, for example, okay?

And I'm happy to say you just reached a section that we can have a commentary on, okay? So, you just reached the explanation of link number one, okay? Everything up to now has been an introduction and a discussion of the first principles of dependence, okay?

Okay. And you're about to enter the most important section and the longest section, okay? As usual, right?

Yes. So, what does the root text say here? What does the sutra say?

So, when we talk about the first link as a condition to trigger the first karma, what do we mean by misunderstanding of the first link? Perfect translation. You are awesome.

It was you who did it. I should continue with whispering in your ear. Okay.

All right. Oh, I see. I did try to...

You did that just now in homework. Okay, okay. So, let me see who's here.

Rob Haggerty. Can you help him on this next part? Okay.

We also did this. So, should we repeat again? Oh, I'm sorry.

Yeah, okay. Just summarize it again. Okay.

So, yeah. When we talk about the misunderstanding, we would like to... When we talk about what is misunderstanding, we would like to do it in negation, in negative term.

And so that not knowing something means meaning that it's to misunderstand. It's to misunderstand. Good.

When we talk about misunderstanding, we're talking about understanding with a miss in front of it. That's all. Okay.

Okay. You add a negative to misunderstanding, there could be seven different flavors of negative. When you add a negative particle to understanding, there's seven different connotations that are possible.

Okay. The first one is that you are denying the existence of rikpa. Denying the existence of rikpa.

Of understanding. Of understanding. By the way, what's the Sanskrit here for misunderstanding?

Avidya. Avidya. Okay.

So really this is a discussion of seven traditional meanings of up. And it's the negative A in Sanskrit. It's called the privative A.

It means putting an A in front of a word to make it negative. Like apathetic, atheistic, apolitical. It came into English.

Even the word ignorance is agnosis. So he says, okay, look, let's talk about all the different meanings that A can have at the front of a word. Like avidya.

And he says, first of all, it could mean understanding doesn't exist. All right? Like in the universe.

Lack of understanding. Absence of understanding. Is that the meaning here?

No. No. We're not talking about a lack of understanding.

We're talking about a corruption of understanding. So that's not the first one. We're not saying there's no mental function here.

We're not denying yuppa. We're not saying the guy doesn't have a brain. We're just saying his brain is working the wrong way.

So forget the first meaning of A. We're not saying there's no mind here at all. That's not what misunderstanding means.

It doesn't mean the absence of understanding. Okay? It means a corrupted understanding.

Okay? Got it? Yeah, sure.

Wow, Masa Wajibandhu is a grammar expert. He talks a lot about grammar. Well, this is a famous treatment.

You see this treatment elsewhere also. For example, in the Abhidharma you see a nice variation on this treatment. A beautiful variation on this treatment.

Okay?

[Speaker 2]
Can I ask a question about translation here? We... To help a modern English speaker, of course, we translate marikpa as misunderstanding.

And for a long time it was translated as ignorance and made less sense to a modern reader. In this context, right? There are special contexts where it comes up, where it's being treated by an ancient author or a commentator, in a way.

What's Sugeng going to do with this? Because the word ignorance makes sense in this context, and the word misunderstanding doesn't make the same sense in this context.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I know what you mean. I would appear and I would say gopay namdang. I would refer you to gopay namdang.

Gopay namdang means use some kind of negative expression. That's all. And Vasubandhu covered himself.

He didn't say a denial. He said a negative expression. So misunderstanding fits here.

Okay? The miss is still okay. And by the way, you would have had to do that in any language, I think so.

But can miss mean...

[Speaker 2]
Miss can't mean without.

[Speaker 1]
Right, but a negative particle can mean without. So he's just saying you could have put something here that said lack of understanding. But that's not the point.

It's a corruption of understanding and not an absence of understanding. Okay? And by the way, the Abhidharma is a very, very famous example here.

That it's a state of mind where you misidentify somebody. You go up to somebody in a train station and you hug them and you realize it wasn't the person you thought it was. Okay?

And that doesn't mean you don't have any friends. It just means you misidentified your friend. Okay?

Long story. Okay. You okay?

[Speaker 2]
Is it worth it to go to Abhidharma for a short footnote just to clarify things here?

[Speaker 1]
This is actually a lot more detailed. Okay, cool. Okay, here we go.

Yeah, but maybe the footnote would be worth it. Okay. Let's go.

Oh, Sugeng. Sorry. Yeah, Sugeng.

Stanley wants to check you. Three minutes. Oh yeah.

Okay. You could use the negative in the sense of being other, but not of being nothing. Like if you say, here's Rick.

Sugeng, I'm thinking of a living being. Okay? I'm thinking of a living being.

And it's someone other than an animal. Okay. So that's another kind of negative, right?

I'm not thinking of an animal. Okay. I'm thinking of a living being, but I'm not thinking of the animal type of living being.

Okay. So that's another use of the negative. It's not to cancel something, it's to say other than something.

Like non-animal. In English we put non-animal. Okay.

Okay. I'm thinking of a living creature, but it's a non-animal. Oh, so you're talking about human.

So, shen nyi la means sometimes the negative is used to indicate otherness and not notness, or not non-existence. Okay. So when I say non-animal, I'm not saying there's no living being here.

I'm just saying there's a living being here who's other than an animal. Okay, cool. And that otherness is called shen nyi, otherness.

So sometimes negative particles are used to indicate otherness and not absence. Okay. Okay.

Cool. My own shepa na, sok chak le shen. So it's meant to indicate something other than an animal.

And chok na mi nepa means it's something which is still alive, but it's not on that side of things. Okay. It's not on the animal side.

Chok na mi nepa. Okay. And sometimes you could say sok chen ma yinpa.

I'm thinking of something which doesn't have physical form. Okay. And in that case, you would say sok chen le shen.

They are something other than physical. Kang yinpa da. Okay.

Okay. So this is the negative, like n-o-n, non, used to indicate something else. In that case, non-understanding could be goldfish.

Okay. I mean, is that the point of saying misunderstanding? When you say mis, do you mean something other than a state of mind?

Do you mean like a table? Or do you mean your breakfast? He says, no, that's not the point either.

When you have a, in avidyā, we're not talking about negative in the sense of something other, like non-combatant, or non-entity, or like that. That's not how we're using the word here. So, so far, Sugeng, we have two possible negative expressions.

One means there's nothing there. The second one means there's something else there. And neither one fits the first link.

Yeah. Both are neither one fits. Yeah.

Did somebody say we're out of time?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, we are.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, what's going to happen here, Sugeng, is you get to do the next three. Next three? Okay.

Come on, you're grown up now. Okay, sure. Number three, number four, and number five.

Okay, sure. Number three, number four, and number five. Okay, sure.

Thank you, Geshe-la. Thank you. By the way, this is one of the easier sections.

Okay. Okay. Yeah.

This is one of the easier sections in this book.

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
11th, right? Yes. Waiting in anticipation, yeah.

Yeah, okay. All right, see you guys. How many minutes do I get, Nick?

Seven. Seven? Man, I could do a lot of things in seven minutes.

Thanks so much. All right, see you guys later. Thank you.

Thank you, Geshe-la. Thank you, everybody.