Сугэн Ши — Книга 2: Колесо жизни (первый принцип и подразделения зависимости), занятие 73

[Speaker 1]
So, we've got Master Sugeng coming up next. I don't know where in the world he is right now, but I bet he's nearby. I think, I mean, no, no, not nearby, Medan, Indonesia.

Well, with Zoom we're always nearby. It's Indonesia, Sumatra, we flew in from Jambi yesterday. Wow, cool, a man on the move.

That's cool. Still moving. I like the work you're doing down there, I'm sure.

Yeah. Hi, Geshe-la. Good to see you.

There he is. Time, my time. Okay.

Okay, Mr. Homework, I mean, Sugeng. All right, I will share the screen now. All right, let's do a little bit of review of what we did last month.

And there are pretty easy questions. Can we get a result without a cost? Or a result after the cost has died off?

And what is the reason according to the argument in the book? So, can we get a result without cost? I don't think so.

But how about a result after the cost has died off? That's an interesting question. This is a question, right?

So, what is the reason according to the argument in the book? The dead bird cannot make a sound. You're jumping ahead.

Don't go there yet. The duck didn't die yet. Definitely not.

So, we are saying that somebody is saying something. No, not dead. So, yeah, we are saying that the sourness from the previous, the sourness comes from some details of continuous flow of a certain potential that has come from it.

So, we are saying that there are certain potential according to the book. Now, the second question, what is the problem of consciousness being triggered by a fresh karma which was already passed? Then this is where Toto and Utpala's answer came to the picture.

That is a problem, right? A duck that has died would still be quacking. Now, the last question.

The last question is, why were we discussing about the result cannot be coming from a cause that has ended? What is the topic that we are actually discussing about here? Anybody remember?

[Speaker 2]
Where consciousness is coming. What's the result?

[Speaker 1]
Precisely. Yes, Leon. Yes.

Thank you, Geshe-la. So, it's like, how does consciousness... If the second link is gone by the time the third link starts, how can it start the third link?

And if it's not gone, how did the third link start? Yeah. So, that is basically the argument that we are still battling in the midst of it now.

Okay. Now, let's... Vocabulary.

Madulunga. Madulungka. Lemon tree, berry.

Trunchree. Are you saying something more? Yes.

Trunchree, lemon tree. Yes, thank you. Have a cute ball.

[Speaker 2]
Sour.

[Speaker 1]
Sour like a citron. Yes, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Tian Tu. Selma. Selma. If you look, if you search.

If you search, yeah. If you search. All right.

And then let's go to the student translation. All right. All right.

So, this is my attempt at translation, Geshe-la. Titar ngön she na. Yeah, okay.

What's the ngön means again? The ngön referring to the why something that has gone off still can create something else, right? This is the topic of our discussion.

Well, yeah. They were talking about putting a hammer into a fire, and then the hammer got, the iron got red hot, right? When does the patina, right?

Yeah, so how can there be evidence of fire on a piece of iron that you put in the fire if the fire is gone? I see. There's no contact between the cause and the result.

Okay. Because the cause that burned the iron is gone already by the time the iron hot. Okay.

Okay. So that's the topic. All right.

So, again, did you translate the ngön as like, what is the evidence for that? Yeah, or I would say, how come it's still showing? How can it still be showing?

I would translate ngön as showing. The patina, or how can we still see evidence of the fire after the fire is gone? All right.

And then, di tar me shiwa ni shekpar mi che do. So, blown out fire can no longer burn things? Yeah, the shiwa here means to die, right?

Shiwa, shiwa. And shiwa, low tone, shiwa, means peace. So they're obviously connected.

When the fire stops, there's peace. So, me shiwa means the fire that heated up the hammer is already gone. So, how can we still see the result of the fire?

If the cause is stopped, how can the effect still be there? Is there a gap? If a seed never touches a tree, how can you say the seed caused the tree?

Geshe-la, all these are just statements, right? They are not questions, right? Right, yeah.

And it means there's two kinds of relationships in the universe. One is a cause and effect relationship. It means one thing causes another thing.

Two things cannot share a relationship by definition if one of them is missing. Okay, got it? So, cause and effect is one of the two great relationships in the universe.

The other is member and family. You see what I mean? That's, you know...

But the second great relationship possible in the universe is cause and effect. But to have a relationship between two things by definition, they must both exist at the same time. Otherwise, it's impossible to have a relationship, even with people.

If one of them is dead, it's a little difficult. Then how is it possible that a seed can cause a tree because they never exist at the same time? How can you say they have a relationship?

How can you say that the tree came from the seed if the seed is always gone by the time the tree is dead? They cannot have a relationship. If you can have a relationship with something that was there an hour ago, or a day ago, or a month ago, then by definition you have a relationship with everything else in the past, present, and future.

Because there's no connection. Then you have a relationship with bunnies and Rimrock Coffee Shop. You see what I mean?

You have a relationship with everything. If it doesn't have to exist to have a relationship with it, then you have a relationship with everything. Why not?

Because they also don't exist. All the dead people in the world can be your cousins. Got it?

It's a big question. They're talking about how can link number two cause link number three? How can fresh karma cause the state of mind which eventually enters the womb?

How is that possible? Because that karma is gone by the time your mind enters your mother's womb. The karma is finished.

How can something which is finished have an effect? That's the question. All right.

Then the other guy said, being born is like a hammer getting red, and a fire is like the karma that made the hammer red. Got it? Yeah, the other guy said that.

Then we said, well, is the fire still there when the hammer is red? He says no. Then we say, well, how can the hammer...

Then we say, that's such a stupid example. If they don't exist at the same time, how can one of them affect another one? See what I mean?

It's a wonderful question. How can you say there's twelve links in the wheel of life if link number two cannot touch link number three? If it's supposed to be a...

what do you call it? Chain reaction. Where's the chain?

One of the links is gone. It doesn't make sense. Good question.

Again. PHYUD KHAN PA NI LEN PAR MI CHE DO Good, yeah. These are difficult ancient words.

Sugeng's text has an extra problem. Number one, no one ever wrote a commentary. It was too difficult.

In 2,000 years, no one wrote a commentary. And then secondly, the language is 1,700 years old. The language is almost 2,000 years old.

So it's difficult. And in 2,000 years, it's been corrupted many times. You have to guess sometimes what the spelling is or something.

Which makes it a fun text to do. PHYUD, water. KHAN PA means what?

Dry? Dry? Yeah.

Do you want to learn a dirty word in Tibetan? Yeah, of course. Okay, don't tell my wife I'm talking.

Close your ears, honey. If you're really disgusted with somebody and they said something really stupid, you can say, KHAN PA KHAM PO. But you have to sound disgusted.

Yeah. It means dry dog poo-poo. Okay, say KHAN PA.

KHAN PA means dry. Now you will never forget. CHU KHAM PA means what?

Dried water? Evaporated water? Once the water has evaporated.

Once the water has evaporated. And it can't make things limber. Wet.

Wet. Is it true? Then how can you get a tree from a seed?

Got it? It's the same. If the fire is gone by the time the hammer is red, then how can there be a relationship?

Okay, next one. LONG ZHUG PA NI, KHAM PAR MI CHOD DO Yeah. If you hang your clothes out to dry, and the LUNG, LUNG means dry.

LUNG SEMS ZHUG PA CIG PA If the wind ZHU BA, shampoo, if the wind is down, then what's going to happen to your wet laundry on the line? KHAM PAR MI CHOD KHAM PAR MI CHOD Question is, after so much time has passed, do you remember what KHAM PA means?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, dry.

[Speaker 1]
So you remember KHAM PAR MI CHOD. Yeah, if the wind is died down, how can your laundry dry on the line? Geshe-la, what did you say?

The ZHU BA here just now, it was peace, but how did... You know, in the last sentence he spelled it differently, but I don't mind. It just means died down.

In English we also say... Before he had ME ZHU BA, the fire died down. Yes, ME ZHU BA.

He said ZHU BA. And here he spelled it ZHU BA, and that's just because the manuscript is 2,000 years old, and nobody has used it for 2,000 years. And it's a good commentary, and we're going to resurrect it.

Who's going to read next again? It's misspelled, by the way. It should be DUNG PA.

DUNG PA. Yeah, you cannot have a B after an S. It's not possible.

The manuscript is very ancient, and very corrupt, and exciting. There's no Sanskrit. Oh, DUNG PA.

Okay, let's get Venerable Karin. Yay! I'm a mountain.

Yay! DUNG PA ZHIG PA YANG DRA MI BYED DO Thank you. Yeah, okay.

Hey, $100 if you can tell me what's the present tense of the past tense verb ZHIG PA. ZHIG. Word's going crazy.

ZHIG ZHIG ZHIG ZHIG. ZHONG PA? I didn't hear anything.

ZHIG ZHONG PA? So Gang, who answered correctly? I don't know.

I think DODO? I don't know.

[Speaker 3]
DODO?

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Yeah. What's the word for Yamantaka in this language?

Oh. Yamantaka. Yeah, no, bad question.

Anyway, ZHIG means to be destroyed. ZHIG PA is past tense. What's ZHIG PA?

DUNG. DUNG means to beat a person or to beat a drum. Here it's a drum.

Okay. DUNG. DUNG PA ZHIG PA.

Once the person has stopped hitting the drum with the stick, DRAM MI ZHIG? No more sound. It won't make a sound.

It won't make a sound. Got it? All right.

Say the whole sentence. Say the whole sentence in English. When the drum is not beaten anymore, it will not make any more sound?

It's more... Yeah. When the person stops hitting the stick, there can no longer be any sound.

Yes. Therefore, link two cannot cause link three, and no seeds can cause trees. Right?

Yes. Same thing. Person's hand is not moving.

There's no more drum sound. Lindsay would be so thrilled if that could happen. I'll explain some other time.

Okay. Next sentence. Who's next again?

Still the same. Cutting from the mountain. DBANG PO DANG DRON YANG RNAM PAR ZHIG PA'O Thank you.

Yeah. So that's easy. DBANG PO means the sense power.

DBANG means power. DBANG PO means sense power. DRON means the thing that I focus on, like a tail.

RNAM PAR ZHIG PA'O means that's how you get... When the object meets the sense power, you get awareness. Awareness is triggered when the sense power...

Awareness is triggered when the object meets the sense power, right? It's just like a tree and a seed. A seed and a tree, right?

No. It is the same. Put a cup out there, open your eye, and the cup will hit the eye and trigger...

And then I see a cup. That's the result. That's the tree.

And this is the seed, right? So they make contact, right? So they have to both be there at the same time to make contact.

Ah, yes. Yes. Therefore the seed cannot be gone by the time the tree grows.

Right? And therefore link number two cannot cross link number three, and your whole wheel of life is ridiculous. That's what the guy is saying.

That's what the other guy is saying. Good question. Okay.

Here's another impossibility. Who's going to read, Sugeng? I don't know.

Berta Velasco, are you translating? Ah, translating. Okay, okay.

Okay. No worry.

[Speaker 2]
I can, though. I just figured out how. Okay, let's get Toto.

Oh, yes, sir.

[Speaker 1]
By the way, Sugeng? Yes. I think it's a mistake in the...

By the way, this manuscript is 2,000 years old. It's messed up. And that makes it more fun.

I think it says nyomong ma pangpa. Nyomong ma pangpa. I'm guessing.

Okay. If it's me, I'll put ma. Why, Sugeng?

Not... Not... Not getting rid of them will cause the rebirth.

Oh, yeah. Oh, that's true. Not getting rid of them will cause the rebirth.

If you don't get rid of karma and negative emotions, you cannot pangpa, rebirth. Yangsi means rebirth. Okay?

Okay? Yes. Got it?

[Speaker 3]
Why?

[Speaker 1]
Why do you have to get rid of karma and kleshas? Why do you have to get rid of karma and negative thoughts to stop rebirth? Why?

Why? It's something that forces rebirth to happen in the first place? Because they cause it.

But they are gone by the time the rebirth is there. He's on the same theme. Seeds don't cause trees.

Kleshas and karma don't cause rebirth. Got it? Impossible.

Link number two does not cause link number two. I don't know what this wheel is all about. Okay?

By the way, this is a commentary on the one-page sutra called the Twelve Links of Dependence. And we had the sutra long ago. A couple years ago, right, Sugeng?

[Speaker 2]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Okay. Now, I'll give $300 if someone can connect the next line to Stanley's book.

The first line of the fourth chapter of the Yantra Dharmakosha. Huh? No.

The next line is a part. We talked about intermediate verses. I was hoping for the original language word.

[Speaker 2]
Pardom.

[Speaker 1]
Who said pardom? I said par, so that's par. Was it Gibson?

Gibson. Gibson!

[Speaker 2]
Should I pay the money to your wife?

[Speaker 1]
Gibson, should I pay the money to your wife?

[Speaker 2]
I can speak with that word.

[Speaker 1]
Hey, Gibson, if you're in that country you're in, I can pay you in rupees, right? I think that's about $4. Yeah, good.

Say pardon. We just had it in the last text. That was where, to give the reader a break, you put a little poet.

In English we call it, I'll give you new words, Sugeng. Stanley. Didi.

D-I-T-T-Y. It means a little. If you like, I'll give you a break.

Here's a little poem. Okay? It's called a pardom.

And here came one. Right now. Here it comes.

Ready? Okay. Here's, Sugeng, you've got to sing it with fear.

Oh, me? Okay. All right.

By the way, there should be four lines here. Or at least two. One, two, three.

No. Oh, we have four. I think it should be four, maybe five.

I don't know. But I want to hear it bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump. Okay?

I want to hear poetry. Yay. Okay.

He's going to write a poem. What do you think the poem is about? The summary of what we just discussed.

How the hell can a tree grow if there ain't no seed there? Something like that. Are you ready?

Here it comes. Nam shik. That's number shikpa past tense, past tense of jikpa.

It's okay. Oh, jikpa. Oh, yeah, yes, yeah.

Fear? No. Say again?

Stop. No, jikpa. Destroyed, gone.

Destroyed, destroyed, yeah. Gyu le je bu chung. Gyu le je bu chung.

The result, the cause causing the result, the cause creating the result. Yeah, the cause comes from the result. You ready?

Here it goes. The result came from a cause that was gone. Got it?

Number shikpa, shikpa past, low tone, number shikpa.

[Speaker 3]
Number.

[Speaker 1]
Already destroyed, okay? Oh, the apple grew from a tree that wasn't there. It's a poem, get it?

Yes. All right. Now the next line should be just as silly.

Wongpo la sok nam shik le. Even when the sense power has ended, has stopped. Yeah, you're blind.

Like someone poked your eye out with a stick, okay? Oh, oh, okay. Yeah, tongwa la sok, your mom will give rise to the seeing.

Yeah, you'll still see things. Someone pokes your eye with a stick, but you're still seeing things because seeds can cause trees. Things that are gone cause other things.

Got it? The eye which is gone can see colors. It's a poem about ridiculous.

Okay, what's the last line of the ridiculous poem? me du wang shiwa me, the smoke from fire. Smoke and fire.

No, the smoke will still come from fire that never ends. Yeah, but turn it around now. Now this is the punchline.

This is the punchline. Turn it around. So fire that never, fire that has stopped.

He did not say me, me, shiwa, me. He did not say me, shiwa, me, duwa. He said me, duwa, shiwa, me.

Me, duwa, shiwa, me. The duwa, shiwa, me. The smoke that will never end, that has not ended, that does not end.

Yeah, yeah, okay. Now let's sing the whole thing. You ready?

Yeah, so anyway, you got a banana from no seed. All right. You got a, you saw, you saw a pizza with no eyes.

And now the smoke will keep coming out long after the fire's gone. What's that mean? Why did he switch it around?

The smoke will never stop, even when the firewood is gone. The smoke, if according to you, if something that's not there anymore can keep causing a result, then the smoke just keep coming out and the fire can stop and the smoke is pouring out. What's the smoke representing?

The result without the cause? The result after the cause has died off? Rebirth.

Rebirth. Yes, rebirth. Suffering.

That you'll be out forever in the wheel of life. Why? Because there's no cause.

I see. Because the no cause continue. Because according to you, smoke can just keep coming out after the firewood is gone.

Because you're the one who says seeds cause trees. And you're the one who said consciousness causes, sorry, fresh karma causes consciousness. You said that.

You made up this wheel of life thing. Yes or no? Yeah.

What's link number two? Fresh karma. What's link number three?

Consciousness that enters your mother's womb. Is it cause and effect? Yes.

Is the cause there when the effect is there? No. So how the hell are you going to stop rebirth?

Because the cause is gone. You can't stop it. Fire smoke will just keep pouring out with no wood.

It's all a big criticism. The other guy's making fun of us. All right?

So don't give me this ridiculous wheel of life thing. How can it work? Will smoke just keep going with no wood?

No, no, the wood causes the smoke. Yeah, right. And after the wood runs out, what happens?

The smoke goes away. Oh, okay, I get it. So when the cause is gone, the results just stop.

Right. Okay, then you shouldn't have consciousness because the karma stops. Right?

Nobody should ever be reborn. No tree should ever grow. Got it?

The whole couple of pages is a criticism. How can a cause cause a result if by definition the cause is gone by the time the result comes out? It's impossible.

Okay? And it's a very valid thing. What's the solution for $300?

This is how we lose our money. It's all an image coming. The connection between the cause and result is coming from a seed in your mind.

It's a story. Yeah, you can say, I'll give you $200. Yeah, it's the fire's coming out of your mind, the smoke's coming out of your mind, and the connection between the smoke and the fire is coming out of your mind.

But that doesn't mean there's no smoke. That's like saying the pen's not there because it's coming out of my mind. It is there.

I'll give you a mustache. I always tell people, I'll give you a mustache. I gave a guy a mustache in Florida.

I had to do that. Okay? That's the source of all brilliance.

Or, I won't say anything. Geshe-la? Yeah.

So this is, like you said before, this is actually like a prequel to Ariana Garjuna's text, Idea, right? So this text is not so much about mind only, but more towards the higher middle way kind of thinking. Can I say that?

You're gonna see a lot of mind only influence in this text, and I marked those places already. Okay. Like seven or eight years ago.

Yes. Okay? There are places in here where Vasubandhu, what?

Jump out of the closet and jumping around. He comes out of the closet. For the first time.

In the Abhidharmakosha, he never comes out of the closet, except for one single syllable. Yeah, they say.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, same here.

[Speaker 1]
It's low. I'll say low. Low.

Oh, low. We have a great thing going on in this country, low. Did we say L-O-W?

L-A-W. It's probably similar. Laugh out loud.

In the ancient times, they said low. Low means, I don't believe it, by the way. Okay.

Got it?

[Speaker 3]
Isn't it too fresh consciousness?

[Speaker 1]
Say it again?

[Speaker 3]
We talked about stored consciousness, causing the seeds to ripen.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, right now he hasn't gotten mine only on us yet. It's coming. Right now he's pretty Abhidharma.

But there's problems. There's problems. If you don't understand the pen, the wheel of life actually cannot work.

And someone is, someone is, the author, Vasubandhu, is saying, by the way, this wheel of life that was taught by Buddha in the Wheel of Life Sutra cannot work unless I come out of the mind-only closet and explain it to you. It's all in your storehouse consciousness. You talk to Wordsmith.

He knows everything. Okay. Okay, next.

Let's keep going, Saging. Yeah, that's all the translation. Oh, sorry.

Yeah, nice job. Okay, good. Good.

It's a beautiful. It's an exciting text, I think. Okay, here we go.

Nope, sorry, that's the wrong Abhidharma. Let me go back again. No, that's correct, I think.

It's the Wheel of Life. Was it? Yes, that was it.

That was it. Yes, and then, yeah, this is the example. No, but I'm seeing the right one.

Hang on. Oh, this one, yeah. That's, this is, is this it?

Yeah, right, okay. Okay, is it moving for everybody? Yes, it's moving.

We finished a little ditty, okay? Very unusual word. Who's going to read, Saging?

All right. Oh, yeah, Toto has not read yet.

[Speaker 2]
I thought you forgot. I'm sorry. Nice, okay, good.

[Speaker 1]
Your reading is quite good. DE MED PA YIN PA Oh, I'm sorry, wait. We skipped a line.

Toto, can you read GAL TE?

[Speaker 2]
GAL TE GAL TE DE PA'I LAS BYAS BUR MI BDUS PA'AM Yeah, GAL TE means if, okay.

[Speaker 1]
DE PA means in the past. What's the famous DE PA that we know? SNYANG NGAN LA DE PA NGAN BYANG GRIG which is the Tibetan translation of Nirvana.

Okay, so he says, if you, if the, these two LAS are different. Okay, I'll quote you the fourth line of the Abhidharmakosha itself. Fourth, LAS LAS GCIG RTEN NA TSOGS PA'I Nice, say it again.

Nice. Chloe just gave us the opening line of the fourth chapter, Abhidharmakosha, which is LAS LAS GCIG RTEN NA TSOGS PA'I. What's it mean?

LAS LAS GCIG RTEN NA TSOGS PA'I All the two different worlds come from karma. Yeah, all the variety of planets has been produced from karma. LAS LAS, from karma.

So they're different LAS, okay? There's two kinds of LAS, okay? Here it says LAS LAS GCIG RTEN NA TSOGS PA'I What's that mean?

Yeah, from karma comes GCIG RTEN NA TSOGS PA'I, the result, okay? MED DOD And it's a sarcastic question. The other guy's saying, so if the firewood burns up, the smoke keeps going, right?

And we're like, well, what are you talking about? No, of course it doesn't keep going. He says, well, doesn't suffering come from karma, which is NDE PA?

Gone. The karma is gone by the time the suffering shows up, okay? The seed opens into suffering.

When the seed opens, it disappears, okay? So the smoke keeps coming and there's no fire, right? He's being sarcastic to us.

Oh, great. So we keep suffering forever, no hope. Why?

You don't need karma. Sure you do. No, the karma is gone by the time you start to suffer, you idiot.

This is the other guy talking to us. Got it? The tree's, the seed's gone by the time the tree comes out.

How can you say the seed caused the tree? Are you crazy? Got it?

The fire's out, but the iron's still hot. Okay. So how can you talk about, by the way, which of the links is he criticizing?

Two to three.

[Speaker 3]
The tree.

[Speaker 1]
The tree. If there's no karma, if the karma is gone by the time you have a consciousness triggered into rebirth by your past life's karma, that karma's passed. How can it cause you to go into a new world?

Okay. De me pa. What's that mean?

That doesn't exist. Doesn't exist. That karma's gone.

That karma's gone. De me pa. That karma's gone.

If it is gone, then choose here. Why? Why what?

Chom den de. Why did the Buddhist, YSI program, did you just finish? Bahadur.

Bahadur. Bhagavad Gita. This is Bhagavad in West Chinese language.

Chom den de is Bhagavad. Bhagavad. Bhagavad.

Okay? The conqueror. The conqueror.

The one who had the good share. Bugger. Okay, got it?

Why did he say, di kye du? Di kye du is a colon. Here's what Buddha said about this, colon.

Di kye du. Di kye dak gi du pa te chi na. Er bam ma ya shu tam.

This is how I heard it. Okay? So, here's what I heard him say.

What? Tang de pa. That le is nu de pa.

That karma's gone already. Which one? Link number two.

By the time you get to link number three and your mind goes into your mom's womb, the karma that thrusts you into your mom's womb is gone by the time you enter your mom's womb. Buddha said that, not me. Bhagavan said that.

Okay, got it? He said that. He said that le is shigpa.

It's over. Gone. Jigpa, it's destroyed.

That le is gagpa la gokten gokpa. Stopped, ended. Finished.

Stopped it. Finished. Chao la.

You don't have it anymore. Yong su, past tense, kyurpa. Completely.

It has transcended. It has already transformed into a result. Okay?

The firewood is already smoke. The seed is already an apple tree. Yong su, past tense, kyrpa.

What's the present tense? Ngyur. Ngyur.

So listen. Yong su, ngyur. It is transforming.

Here, yong su, kyr. Done. Finished.

Past. Okay? By the way, prenasals are often present tense or future tense.

Ngyur. It's gonna happen. Now listen.

Ngyur. It's gonna happen. Kyr.

It happened. Okay, got it? That's how you do past tense and present tense and future tense.

You just change the pronunciation. Okay? Here, it's kyr.

Finished. It changed. It transformed already.

What? What transformed into what? For a hundred years.

It transformed into a result. Two into three. Consciousness.

The consciousness entering your mind. Stanley said it better, because he's here. And the signal didn't have to go to the satellite.

Word, you got cheated by satellite slowness again. Okay. Ah, nyong si gyur pa.

De gyur pa yin no. What? Now, this is very controversial.

You're saying it is a thing that exists. What exists?

[Speaker 3]
The thing that's gone.

[Speaker 1]
Ah, Stanley got it. The end of the karma is there. Okay?

Is the karma there? No. Is the end of the karma there?

Yes. Is the end of something a thing? Yeah.

The Civil War did it better, supposedly. Right? Okay.

Got it? All right. Nice.

Now he's going to go off on that idea. He's going to carry that idea. What's that idea?

At the end of something, you can still create something. Endings can exist. Endings, ending of your negativities can exist.

And that's a real thing. That keeps you from being insane. Okay?

Endings, okay, that's a pretty good ending. All right, here we go. By the way, I didn't make that up.

Lord Buddha said that. All right, who's going to read? When you say ending can exist, is this can or cannot exist?

Well, Buddha said it existed. I guess it exists. So it's positive, right?

Okay, I see. All right. When the hammer is bright red and the part of the fire which made the hammer bright red, is that still there?

The ending, yes. All right. No, the fire that made the hammer red, that particular flame is long gone.

Yes. But the hammer is still red. Yes.

Okay. Is there an absence of the fire that made the hammer red? Yes.

Yeah, that's a thing in the universe now. Yes. That's a thing, and it will always be there.

What? The ending of the flame. That particular flame is gone.

That's a fact now. Facts are unchangeable. Facts never change.

Okay. It's very interesting. That fire having gone away after the hammer got red will always exist.

Forever. I see. If you want to be immortal, just die.

Just kidding. All right. Who's going to read again?

Can I have Oscar? Oscar Leung, please? Good, nice.

Very nice. Very nice, Oscar. I got a job for you.

You got to talk to Rebecca, okay?

[Speaker 2]
Oh yeah, I know about it. Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
You're smart. Avoid it. Okay.

No, I'm just kidding. I want you to do it. They're going to translate some texts about how to die well.

And we're going to share them with people in our grief program. Okay. DE DANG LDAN PA MED DU ZIN NA So DE DANG LDAN PA means you have it.

MED DU ZIN means, but that relationship already left. Your possession of bad karma is gone because the karma used itself up. So your possession of that karma is gone.

The fact that your possession of that karma is gone is immortal. It will never change. Once the karma ripens, the fact that you had the karma will last forever.

The fact that you have the karma is gone. The fact that you used to have the karma is now a fact in the universe and it will go on forever. Got it?

That particular karma. Okay? Once it's gone, that's written in the history book of time and that will exist forever.

The absence of the karma will exist forever. Okay? The absence of a seed will exist forever once the tree grows.

Okay, got it? Okay. Then he says, GAL CIG.

Somebody else? Somebody says. What's it mean literally?

Yeah, one mouth. One mouth says. Somebody says.

TZAM MED. What's a TZAM MED? There is no word.

There's five of them. Beginning or end. Oh, the five.

Five. Immediate misdeeds? TZAM MED.

TZAM MED KYI LAS. The five immediate misdeeds, the five things that you do, you immediately go to. Yeah, the five super bad deeds.

Five super bad deeds. They're called, they're called no border, borderless bad deed. Okay?

What are they? Kill your mother, father, or attempt to kill Buddha. And then what's the worst one?

Split the spiritual group. That last one is close. We have to be careful.

All right. So he said, TZAM MED PAR BYED, past tense. You did one of the five.

Once you did one of those five, RGYUD DANG RGYUN DE, due to that RGYUD and RGYUN, due to that cause and factor. Of what? Doing it.

That karma. That terrible, terrible karma. One of the five worst deeds a human being can do.

Kill your mother, kill your father, things like that. RGYUD DANG RGYUN DE, active. That cause, meaning that karma, after you lose shape, Your body dies.

After your body dies in this life, DE MA THAG TU.

[Speaker 3]
Your body just died.

[Speaker 1]
In the next millisecond, 64 per, fingers now, 65. Split that by 65. That's how long it takes you to get to the hell realm.

After your consciousness dies, in 1 65th of a second, you are in the hells. That's why it's called no border. TZAM MED.

ZHIG NA. DE MA THAG TU. Right after that, NYAL BAR BSKYED, you'll be born into the hell realm.

Okay? RGYUD DOG ZHES GSUNGS. G-S-U-N-G-S.

GAO SA ZHIG GYI GZU MA SA GSUNGS. When it says spoken, at the end of a sentence, it always means Lord Buddha. That's Buddha.

That's not me talking. That Buddha said. Buddha said that.

What did Buddha say? If you kill your father, kill your mother, and then you die, and your current body dies, then immediately you take birth into the hell realms. Right?

So Buddha himself described the result that can come from a cause which is gone. Got it? Got it?

They killed their mother when they were 25 or something. Now they're 50, they died, and then they go immediately to the hell realms. What sent them to the hell realm?

A thing that was gone sent them to the hell. Who said that? Were you going to argue with Buddha?

So apparently something which is gone can do something. Apparently. He's giving an example, a real example.

Okay, it's a good example. It's a heavy example. Okay, who's going to read next again?

Hold on, the Kachitta. I knew you were going to say that. Well, I don't do it, Geshe-la.

Why? So Kachitta, I mean, how do we translate this? Mordor-less, what?

Immediate? Mordor-less? What does that mean?

[Speaker 3]
Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
They like to translate it as immediate karma. And by the way, those translations took me 40, 50 years. And that's why I can translate fast now, because I don't have to think about them anymore.

I spent a year thinking about it a long time ago. You're not going to call it a borderless bad deed. That sounds like some kind of wall or something.

And, you know. How do I understand the Kachitta, Geshe-la? I'm sorry, oh, people will quote the Buddha.

Oh, I see, I see, I see. Okay, okay, got it. Some people will come back.

Some people will come back to us and say, you think it's a stupid idea that something that's gone can cause something? And we say, yeah, we think it's a stupid idea. And then Ka-chik says, oh, well, I guess Buddha never said that if you kill your mother, then you're going to go to the hell realms.

That that karma, which is gone, is going to send you to the hell realms. Okay. Right?

He's being sarcastic. I guess Buddha never said that, right? Okay, okay, got it?

Yes, got it. Very cool. Yes.

All right, who's reading the text once again? We got some time, right? Yes, we still have time.

Alex Rivas, please. Oh, sorry. Oh, okay.

Sorry. What? I said Juan could read it.

Oh, okay. Come on, come on. All right, please.

We got it, Alex. We got it. Juan has to read it.

Where is Juan? That's the question. Where is Juan?

Okay, Dayoung.

[Speaker 2]
Dayoung. ,LHA THAR BYUNG BA SHING DU RANG GI TSE NYID, ,NGES PA LA GUNG NGE YOD DU, ,ZHES GSUNGS PA MA YIN GYI, Now this is our response to the guy who said that.

[Speaker 1]
The Buddha said if you kill your mother father, that past deed can send you to the hell realms. And here's our reply. Okay.

Dayoung. Furthermore. LHA THAR means in the present moment.

Present tense. ZHUNG BA is present tense. Purposely prenasal.

He says it's happening. SHING is the present participle. In English, it's I-N-G.

Okay. ZHUNG BA YING. It's happening right now.

Yeah, okay. It's happening right now. When Buddha said that, it's happening right now.

In its real form. RANG GI TSE NYID NGES PA. What?

Killing your parents. Killing your mother or killing your father. It's happening right now in its real form.

LA GONG. GONG DU DE GONG DOR. GONG GONG DOR.

That's what he meant? Yeah, what he really had in mind.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
What he really had in mind. So, did Buddha have in mind that that deed was current? Somehow it existed years later as a present thing.

Yeah, it exists. ZHES ZUNG BA MA YIN. It was not what he meant.

Yeah, he never said that. Don't blame Lord Buddha. He never said a karma which is old and frozen and stopped and gone.

He never said it was alive. He never meant that. That's not what he meant when he said that.

He didn't mean the karma was still active. Well, then what did he mean? Which is what?

The next sentence? Yes, please continue.

[Speaker 2]
O NA JI LTAR ZHES NA.

[Speaker 1]
Well, what the heck did he mean? O NA means well then. JI LTAR ZHES NA means if you ask what did he really mean?

If he didn't mean it was alive karma, then what did he mean? Keep going.

[Speaker 2]
DE LA SKYES PA DGOS PA NGES PA'I PHYIR RO Yeah, and here a word.

[Speaker 1]
Very interesting ancient text problem. DGOS means necessary. It always means necessary.

In the next sentence, he changes to BSGOS. Same pronunciation exactly. DGOS PA This BSGOS means what in words, text?

Smear. Yeah, smeared. Karma is smeared on the mind stream like incense placed in a cloth bag.

They take the incense out and the bag smells for years. So that's how karma infects the mind, like the smell of a piece of incense on cloth. And that special verb for imbued, the smell imbues the cloth, stays in the cloth, in Tibetan it's BSGOS.

Pronunciation DGOS. Now, go back to the last sentence. Pronunciation DGOS.

Exact same pronunciation. Someone has messed with the text. Again?

Yeah. It could just be a typo. It could be a typo.

Definitely. I mean, it could be the scribe fell asleep. Yeah.

It could just be SGOS or something. Exactly. Yeah.

Anyway, that's why I chose this text, because it was fun. Somebody changed the spelling like 700 years ago. Anyway, he didn't mean that the karma was active.

He said the karma was KU.

[Speaker 2]
Imbued?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Smeared? Its effects were lingering.

The effects of the karma linger, like the smell of the incense in the cloth bag after the incense is gone. Buddha did not say the incense was still there. But in a way it's the same.

He said it's lingering.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. But the lingering is its effect, and if it's already gone...

[Speaker 3]
I don't know.

[Speaker 1]
Good question. Okay. Okay.

Yeah. Kepa, gupa. Lekepa and karma occurred, and then it got smeared, and it's still there now.

[Speaker 3]
It stays.

[Speaker 1]
It got smeared, and it's still there. Its ramifications are still there. The karma is gone.

Okay.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
The guy's struggling to explain. If the guy just went to a DCI program and heard the pen one time, they could save this whole book. Okay, got it?

Really? Really. Because all these questions are very important, and they're very valid questions.

If you don't know about the pen, you should have these questions. Okay. All right.

Here we go. You want to do one more? Just for fun?

I heard that Sugeng is paying any newscaster who reads that.

[Speaker 2]
We will see.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Hey, Sugeng, you guys going to Japan? Yes, we are.

Okay. Ahasa will connect there. Okay.

Yeah, come to see us.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, so this guy, it's really uncomfortable for him to say that killing your mother is still there. And then it creates an effect. Go to hell.

It's uncomfortable. Let's say you killed her, and then you lived another 20 years, and then you went to hell. Two minutes after you died, right?

One second after you died. And it's uncomfortable for him. He doesn't want to say the killing is still there.

So he says, de shakpa, that deed of killing your mom, gus your sem. Imbues your mind. Yeah, yeah.

It smears your mind. It smears your mind, or I don't know, it puts a smell in your mind. A thoughtful smell in your mental stream.

And the word stream is very important. Why? Because it's a continuation.

It's ongoing. It continues to the day of your death. It's the cloth bag from the day you kill up to the day you go to hell.

The bag still smells. DGOS PA YOD DE YONGS SU RGYUR BA'I PHYED RAB GYI GYUR PA GANG LAS BRGYAB PA BYUNG NGO And now you have a constantly transforming smell smear. The smell smear keeps perpetuating itself.

That doesn't go away. It's like, dung, dung, dung, dung, dung. That's called YONGS SU RGYUR BA'I PHYED RAB GYI GYUR PA GANG LAS BRGYAB PA BYUNG NGO Continues to transform, transform, but keep the smell.

Keep the smell, keep the smell. That's its cheddar. It has a certain quality.

The cloth has a quality of being able to sustain the scent of the original bad deed. And then the DGOS PA comes from that. Yeah, the result comes from that.

Yeah, you go to hell from that, from the scent, not from the incense. The incense is the killing. Okay.

And your soul is the cloth bag. And it stains the cloth bag. And it never goes away.

That scent continues to the day you die. The Buddha didn't mean there was a live piece of dynamite in your heart. You just got smeared, that's all.

And the smear perpetuated itself. And then the smear sent you to hell. Don't blame the karma.

Will you watch your back? Yes. Anyway, by the way, if it sounds convoluted, we say in English convoluted means complicated because you're trying to explain something in the wrong way.

And you keep getting more and more complicated. What's it called? Outcomes eraser.

That's a beautiful idea. Just go for the most simple explanation is usually the best. If you have to use a thousand words to explain how the fragrance stayed in the bag, if you need all that stuff to describe it instead of holding up a pen, you're probably wrong.

The more complicated you get, the more likely it is to be wrong. Real solutions are usually the most simple ones. Okay, cool.

I think we're answering him. No, I think he's the one who wants the bag thing. He's the one who wants the bag thing.

He said ka chik up where he said Buddha wasn't thinking that. Remember? It said gong up above.

Here, gong. Then ka chik here, ka chik. Some guy's trying to bring up a counterexample.

What about karma, which is immediate? By the way, the word immediate is very powerful here. Why?

He says no line between the two. No line between the seed and the tree. His school is no line.

What's the other meaning of tsam? A line that you draw around the retreat center is called a tsam. You can't go outside of that line, especially in the Vinaya texts in the summer.

That really is a good example for that guy. There is no line. This karma is a special kind of karma called lineless karma.

That's an extremely powerful example for the other guy to bring up. Got it? It's a great example for him to bring up.

There's no line between the seed and the tree. He's the no line school. There's no gap.

You can call him the no gap school because that special kind of karma is called no gap karma. No gap karma. Yeah, maybe.

What's the gap meaning, no gap karma? Lifetime in between. Lifetime.

You don't go park in the Deva realm for a couple of lifetimes and then go to hell. You go straight to hell. It's a great example.

The other guy is brilliant. He's choosing a karma and karmic effect which is supposed to be no gap. It's called no gap karma.

Got it? It's a beautiful argument. Yay!

Yay! Thank you so much, Geshe-la. Thank you, Geshe-la.

These are short. Please translate up to Kachinani. Sure.

Thank you, Geshe-la. Appreciate it. Please give hello to Mrs. for me. She's here. She's listening. From me and Veronica is right here.

She says hi to Mrs. also. Thank you, Geshe-la. Thank you, Miss V, too.

Thanks everybody for joining and thank you so much, Geshe-la. Please keep these going forever.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
The first permanent result. Exactly. Alright.

Bye, everybody. Bye. See you next time.

Thank you, Nick. Thank you all.