Сугэн Ши — Книга 2: Колесо жизни (первый принцип и подразделения зависимости), занятие 72

[Speaker 1]
All right. Good morning, Schwenzong Tower people. Hi, friends.

Hey, Sugeng, good morning. Hi, Mick. Good morning.

How are you? I'm good, thank you. Good, good, glad to hear it.

Glad to see everyone. Welcome to class. In case you didn't guess or figure it out, today we have Wheel of Life class with Mr. Sugeng. Who looks ready to go. Yes. And I think Geshe Michael, I just saw that he's joining, so looks like things can start rolling right now.

Good morning, Geshe Michael. I believe it's happening. Anyway, well, as we wait for one moment, I'll just say a special thanks ahead of time to all of our translators interpreting us from English into many languages.

And a special thanks to the production team. Francisco, Marina, Gina, and everybody else helping out. And to all the mixed nuts.

And all of you who are in the good night book clubs and helping us to keep going forever. All right, Sugeng, you look like you got a homework and you can't wait any longer. Okay, let's go to the homework.

They were very similar, but I corrected slightly after I went through the revision of the translations. So I went through all the words and make sure that it is not just the transcription of the conversation. So let's take a look.

Good job, dude. I don't know. I mean, I'm doing my best not to disappoint anybody, including myself.

So, okay, obviously they are pretty similar. So according to Master Vasubandhu, why do we still see people who are blind, deaf, etc.? He wants to remember our discussion last month.

Well, that's a long answer block you have for a short answer. Seeds, of course. Seeds, of course.

Hi, Geshe-la, good morning. Hi, Sugeng. Hi, Geshe-la.

So, yeah, it's long, Venerable. Do you want to try to stretch a little bit more?

[Speaker 3]
Well, that the seeds from the previous lifetime wouldn't ripen for vision and hearing if they don't have those seeds in the mind stream. So they couldn't cross over into the embryo and be part of the five heaps that are ripening in this form.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, you are very much correct.

Yeah, so yeah, basically, in the Wheel of Life context, we are saying that not all six consciousness cross to the next link. Therefore, any details of the raw karma will create... So we talk about the second link will create the third link, the third link will create the fourth link, and the fourth link will create the corresponding fifth link.

And yeah. Yeah, so yeah, you summarize using the seeds, but here in the context of the Wheel of Life, we just want to expand more. Thank you.

The second one, what could be the implication to say that the ripening of name and form were created by the combining of blood and semen? It wouldn't have a consciousness. Yes.

How could it be a fetus? That's true. Yeah.

Oh, are you okay, Venerable? Oh, yeah, I'm fine. You sound like you are having a cold or something.

Oh, no, it's pre-caffeine. Hey, yeah, where's caffeine in this Wheel of Life situation? Caffeine?

Good question. Where's caffeine? It's okay, okay, go ahead.

Could that be link, third link, the consciousness? I'm not sure. If it's not like one, I can't help you.

Sorry. So why were we discussing about cancelling link number three, which is consciousness from the Wheel of Life? Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention, yeah, the second question, basically Venerable Utpala answered correctly.

The result would have to be unconscious and cannot be called a fetus. Thank you, Chloe, for asking. So, yeah, the third question, why were we discussing about cancelling link number three, which is consciousness from the Wheel of Life?

I guess for the same, because the person only just comes from the combining of the parts of the mother and father. Okay. If that was the causes, the blood and the semen, then there would be no consciousness.

Not really in that aspect, but something else. Both three and four come from seeds. Yes, yes, both three and four.

Basically, we are saying that link number two, the first karma triggers link number three and number four. So if that is the case, then why do we need link number three? Why don't we just jump from link number two to link number four?

Thank you. All right. Vocabulary.

Cedak Tunggir? Specifically? Yes.

It's corresponding details, right? Namparsatpa? Presentation?

In my notes, we say establish. Yeah. Presentation.

Okay. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Presentation. And how about Dankepa? Dankepa?

Particularly? Yeah. The what?

Sorry? Particularly. Particularly.

I don't know. In my notes. Has the feature.

Say again? Has the feature? I don't know.

In my notes, it's difference. Is that correct? I'm not sure.

It could be difference. Or two could be difference. Okay.

In this case, you could say the dung is from. Like different from. Yeah.

Different from. Yeah. Yeah.

But together, that's an idiom. Yeah. That's good.

Okay. I see. Okay.

Okay. Thank you. So let me move to the attempted translation.

Okay. Okay. I think this is, oh yeah, this is the text.

And let me expand the text further. By the way, Sugeng, I never click on those updates because they don't work for about six months, usually. Okay, sure.

I just cancel it. All right. I mean, yeah, I don't know.

I try to match the word and the meaning. And somehow, yeah, to me, I mean, they're pretty accurate. So I don't know.

So you want me to read? Yes, please. Okay.

Okay. Yeah, good. If you accept that there is something triggered by the condition of ripe karma, good.

Why don't you accept something happens to the condition of fresh karma, which is similar in du che kyi kye kyi kyang, de shen du chi chenwa de tar, de tar, in that way, it tells us that we're in de tar. de shik. Yeah, nice.

It's perfect. It's perfect. Which is unusual in my life.

So basically he's saying, if you agree that this guy wants to sell the cause of rebirth as ripe karma at link number 10, and that means he's uncomfortable with link number two coming before consciousness, right? And we're trying to figure out what causes consciousness. And, you know, the really dumb guys were saying, if you don't have an apple in front of your face, you can't have consciousness, because there has to be something to see.

And then we were trying to sell the idea that fresh karma ultimately leads to consciousness entering the womb. And then the other guy said, no, no, it's ripe karma at link number 10. The karma has to be charged.

The karma has to be charged up in order to create a new birth or a new life or a new consciousness. And so this debate, we're trying to say, look, when you want link number 10 to cause the birth of a new person, I don't see much difference between that and link number two. You know what I mean?

If you agree that link number 10 can cause awareness or the human mind, then what's the problem with also agreeing that link number two can do the same thing? Something like that, okay? Okay.

Okay. All right. So this is, I mean, we are still unsure whether this is us or the other person, right?

I'd say it's us. I'd say, if I'm not mistaken, he wants to say link 10 causes us, causes our rebirth. And we want to say that doesn't contradict link two causing rebirth.

Okay. Okay. Okay.

All right. Thank you. Since that is short, I will just read.

Jita Rikpa Dangyal Shema. Yeah. Then how would that contradict logic?

And I would say, we said, if link 10 can cause a consciousness, then link two can cause a consciousness. And to say that link 10 can cause a consciousness and link two cannot cause a consciousness is not logical. And I think he's saying, why do you say that?

Something like that. All right. But let's see.

Let's see as we go. Yeah. Yeah.

And what he's saying is, so this guy, whoever it is, he has a problem with number two, with link number two causing rebirth. Okay. He would prefer to say that when the karma is ripe, it causes rebirth.

I don't see how fresh karma, before it gets powered up. It's like uranium that has to be enriched or something. I don't see how fresh karma that's not enriched yet can cause a human mind.

And then now we answer, and he says, the problem with you guys thinking is that, if what causes you to cross the border, nying tsam jorwa, yeah, cross into a new life, if what causes you to cross into a new life is your fresh karma, then something that no longer exists, something that is past in time, must be causing something else, which is impossible. It's gone. Okay?

It's gone. He says, by the time link three comes about, link two is finished. Therefore, link two cannot be the cause of link three.

Okay? Yeah. All right.

And that's an interesting thing, Sugen, because I'll tell you something. If you use English fresh karma for link number two, and if you use ripe karma for link number 10, then it's even worse, according to him. You see?

Because that means link number two should finish before link number 10. Oh, yes. Because fresh karma should finish before it becomes ripe karma.

You know? So really, consciousness is two steps away from its cause, according to you. If you say fresh karma creates your mind going into a new life, but there's an intermediate step, link number 10, where the fresh karma becomes ripe karma.

So by the time the ripe karma is there, the fresh karma should be finished. Yeah. And by the time the person is there who's created by the fresh karma, definitely the fresh karma should be gone by then, because that person is created by the ripe karma.

You see what I mean? Yeah. He has a problem with it.

He says, in your system, where you say that consciousness is created in the passage from link number two to link number three, in that system of yours, it's not logical. Link number two is gone a long time before link number three shows up. Okay?

That's his argument. Oh, yeah. All right.

Wow. This is so interesting. All right.

So, genius, Shepa. Yeah. And by the way, I'll throw one thing in that I was talking to Veronica about yesterday.

This applies to seeds and trees. Yes. Yeah.

We got the same problem. Nagarjuna would jump in here and say, wait a minute, even the ripe karma is gone by the time the consciousness comes about. So you have two things interacting, and one of them doesn't exist.

Yeah. But will that be jumping too far, Geshe-la? I mean, if we were to go along Arya Nagarjuna's thinking in this case.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
No, no. We're just... You're right.

Vasubandhu's not showing his true colors yet. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So anyway, the question is totally valid, especially if you say there's a three-step process. There's fresh karma, there's ripe karma, and then there's a mind which is created.

Then you cannot say that the fresh karma created the mind because something else happened later before the mind, which is ripe karma. Cool? Yeah.

Cool. Wow. I mean, yeah.

Okay. All right. So let's move on.

Ching Yeshe-la. Yeah. One problem you have...

While you have a problem with fresh karma making my mind, why do you have a problem with link number two causing link number three? It makes sense. They come in order.

Why do you have a problem with three o'clock coming from two o'clock? Yeah. Yeah, and this is...

No, wait. Yeah, and this is such a beautiful sentence. Can you read it, Sugeng?

Jagag... Yeah. Jagag shi me kye chimpar thalwar gyuro.

Oh, gosh. Who's talking, by the way? Hey, hey.

This is the... Right? No.

No, hold on. Someone said, if you have a... So my cat, I have a bad...

I have a naughty cat in my house, and yesterday she killed a bird. And she was playing with something, and I didn't know what it was, and then I checked and it was a bird, and I felt really bad. And what he says is...

This sentence says, if you have a bird that already died, can it make a cheap chirping sound? Yes or no? Shouldn't be.

Shouldn't be, yeah. But he made it even more funny. He said, quack, quack, but the duck is dead.

He's like making a joke. I think it's Vatsabandhu. He's like, quack, quack.

No duck. Now, how's that possible? Which means, especially fresh karma should be gone by the time the awareness enters the womb.

Right? Yeah. How can a dead duck quack?

It's a very funny sentence. Oh. Yeah, I think I need to cook this further.

So we are saying that, because the other guy is saying that fresh karma has to be there, so Master Vatsabandhu is saying that if that is required, then a dead duck will still be quacking, right? Yeah. Well, look, someone has put the Wheel of Life in a certain order.

You know, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven... It's like the hours on a clock. And logically, two should come before three, according to the designer of the Wheel of Life.

But the other guy says, look, that doesn't really work. Because link ten should come between link two and three. Because link two is long gone by the time link three happens.

And if link two can cause link three, then dead ducks can quack. Oh. Is this us?

Is this Master Vatsabandhu? I think it's the other guy. Oh, okay.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, sure.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Oh, gosh. And then we are jumping into a new topic.

Yeah, I'm afraid we're kind of jumping into a new... Oh, God. I think if you make a good joke, you're allowed to go on to the next subject, even if you didn't decide the question.

That's my system. All right. That's all my homework, Geshe-la.

Okay, good, good. Nice job, though. You did a good job.

Thank you, Geshe-la. I feel good about your text. I checked yesterday.

We're about one third of the way through your new book. By the way, I'm sorry the sun is coming up in Arizona. And I think Rosa van Grieken, who's in charge of Diamond Cutter Press, wants me to...

Where is that? This is Yang's first book, which is a very deep debate book about the Wheel of Life. And it's 400...

Sorry, it's 350 pages. It's really fat. Even if you don't use it to study Buddhism, you can hit your wife with it, or your husband.

It's called Stopping the Circle of Sadness. I think, if I'm not mistaken, Rosa, the paper book is still in process, but the e-book, if I'm not mistaken... She has a message here for me.

What's it say here? Yeah, she wants me to share with you guys the e-book. Let me see.

Hang on. Yeah, here's the e-book. The e-book is actually ready.

And if you use your phone, you can do the QR code, and you can get to the e-book, and you can study Sugeng's first book. And it's a brilliant piece of work about the 12 steps of the Wheel of Life. And it's really, really good.

I like to... Personally, I like to read a little bit every morning, and then I do a meditation on it, or something like that. That's what we did this morning in Arizona here.

We read some Vinaya from Zhou Xiaoping's text, and then we meditated on it. So I like to have these books on my e-book. I like to just open it up at some crazy place and read a page, and then close my eyes and try to figure it out.

Like, why did he talk about the duck who quacked after he died? Anyway, there you go, and congratulations Sugeng, and congratulations to Rosa, and really Anatole Nguyen, who's been helping a lot with the editing. He does really good work.

Okay, I'm going to stop that sharing. I'm going to go to Sugeng's text. Where did it go?

Here we go. Good? Can you guys see it?

Yes. Okay. Okay.

Let me see here. We finished this part, right? Or no?

Yes. Yeah, that's where the duck died. Okay, who's going to read, Sugeng?

You have the plane, okay? Grandpa's just watching. Okay.

Yeah, I would like to invite Venerable Khading. Yay, Khading.

[Speaker 3]
Venerable Khading, don ji tabul shena.

[Speaker 1]
Nice. By the way, it's been eight years since we started the Mixed Nuts, and most of the Mixed Nuts have finished their first book. And we're in a very beautiful time in my life that I get to see all these books coming out almost at the same time.

And I'm really happy with all 12 of the translators, and everybody who's participating. It's really, really satisfying for me after eight years of hard work. Okay, sik di dun ji tabul shena.

Sugeng, I'll translate. You tell me what it's talking about. What the hell are you talking about?

It's talking about the duck cooking? Yeah, good. Yeah, yeah.

The guy says, look, ducks don't quack after they die. And then we're like, what the heck are you talking about? What's the point of that?

Okay, all right. This is going to be fun to translate later. All right.

You want Venerable Khading to read this? Venerable Khading, please continue.

[Speaker 3]
Okay. yu nam par shik pa le nja dre bu jung pa ma yin no she ja we dun tu dun to dun to Yeah, by the way, Sugeng, that means that in the ancient times there was a secondary suffix D on dun.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, and that's why it's dun to and not dun no. Secondary suffix of D or D? Yeah, like for example, if you look at past tense of a verb ending in G, there'll be an extra S, right?

Yes. And in the old days there was an extra D that has disappeared from the language. So this spelling of dun in the old days was D-O-N-D.

So anyway, this is how you tell. But wouldn't it be a do then instead of a to? It should, but it gets hard.

I'm sorry. Okay. Good question.

Okay. So here, what's it say? Yeah, yu nam par shik pa, past tense of jikpa, Sugeng.

Folding? Yeah, like jikpa means destroy, right? Ah, jikpa.

So shikpa is the past tense of destroy. If the cause has already, what? Disappeared?

Yeah, if the cause has already been destroyed, then how could a jebu come le from it? The result come from the seeds. Yeah, just like a...

Occurrence? Quacking from a... Quacking from a dead duck.

Okay, what's the dead duck here? The result, I mean the le, the... No, the cause.

The cause that already stopped. The cause. The cause that already disappeared in the whole world.

Okay? And then you're saying a result can come from that? You know, and by the way, this is referring to link number two causing link number three.

Okay? Link number three is the quack. Link number two is the duck.

It's a dead duck. So he says, are you saying that the duck can be dead, and then you get a quack? You know?

Are you saying that the fragile karma can be gone, and then you get the mind entering the womb? What are you talking about? Good?

Yeah. All right. Who's going to read, Sugeng?

Let's invite Duoduo. Okay, Duoduo. Okay.

Duoduo, make this shikpa low tone. Low tone. Shikpa.

Shikpa. Yeah. Different.

Shik means flee, and shik means destroyed. Okay? Okay, good.

And forget the z. That's just because there's no two s's in English. We have to use a z.

Kachik Nare said, somebody says, look, Sugeng, there can jungwa a jebu from a gyu which already shikpa. So there can be a result from the cause that has already ended? Yeah.

Yeah. Somebody says, no problem. Results always come out of causes that are gone.

Okay. And that wording, he uses that kind of wording. He says, causes which are gone.

And then he gets himself in trouble when he says it that way. Okay? All right.

Who's going to read? Duoduo, can you continue? I think it's continuation, right?

Okay. One more, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Perna, madur lung ge jebu gyulpo le, chima gyulpo gyulwa dang. Nice!

Nice, Duoduo. Thank you. For example, madur lunga means a lemon, okay?

Madur lunga. It's probably Sanskrit, I guess. Madur lunga.

And, you know, a lemon dies, you take the seed out of the lemon, you plant the seed, you get a new tree, and then another lemon grows on the tree. But something, like a genetic code, is passing from the first lemon to the second lemon. Because the second lemon doesn't taste like an apple, it tastes like a lemon.

So there must be something in the first lemon, even though it's been gone for a year by the time the second lemon comes out, there must be something passed on. And it must be possible for a duck, a dead duck, to create a quack, because a dead lemon creates a sourness next year in the lemon crop, okay? Okay, it's very cute.

Okay, kyrmo means sour, okay? Kyrmo, okay. All right, it's not a bad argument.

All these arguments are good. They are leading up to Nagarjuna. Whether Nagarjuna ever gets to come, I don't know.

But they are certainly like... what do you call that band, Ben Kramer, who plays before the other band? Opening act.

Yeah, the opening act, yeah. It seems like this book is the opening act for Nagarjuna, even though he came before. Okay, who's going to read next again?

Nguyen Thiem. Nguyen Thiem, please. Yeah, thank you, teacher.

Yeah, and this is some weird language, okay? Madhulunga means a lemon. Madhulunga means not the lemon itself, but the flower that's going to turn into the fruit, right?

Flower on a fruit tree is the fruit at its immature stage, really. The flower becomes the fruit, right? So if you take the flower of a lemon on a lemon tree, and you gupa, okay?

That gupa was an important word in words text. Professor words text. Wise, again.

What's gupa mean? Smear, yeah. And I like the example they gave in words text of keeping incense in a cloth bag, and then you take the incense out, but the cloth bag still smells like incense.

And that's the example for how karmic seeds gupa in your mind, okay? It's like the smell of the incense. So he says, if you take the flower of a lemon and you smear it with red gyak kye, okay?

Gyak kye means lac, L-A-C, and it's a red varnish. It's a kind of paint. I like it.

It's very beautiful, and it's called lac. And I had a debate with somebody, because I want to make bookshelves out of gyak kye, but one of my friends said, no, no, Geshe-la, that's made from an insect. They kill the insect to make the lac shellac.

It's called shellac. And then I looked it up, and it's both, okay? You can get the color from a certain tree called gyak kye, or you can get it from a lac bug, but it's a similar color.

So anyway, if you take the lemon bloom and you smear it with this red, it's a famous red kind of gooey stuff, okay? It's the famous gooey stuff. And I can tell you a bad story from Vinaya, but I don't know if I should.

Kramer's like, yeah, go ahead. Anyway, there's a vowel for, I don't think I should tell you. Anyway, to be honest, it was used as a lubricant in sex also.

So it appears that it's some kind of gooey stuff that's fun or something like that, okay? So anyway, if you take this gooey red stuff and you put it on a lemon tree blossom, the blossom will actually create a different kind of tree when it opens, okay, rather than a lemon, okay? It's kind of like doing genetic engineering on a lemon blossom, and it will actually turn into a different result, okay?

Now, why he brings that up, I don't know. Is this just a metaphor, or is this for real, Geshe-la? Well, this is one of those things, do you know Pliny, a Roman writer, Pliny, and he wrote a book about nature, and half the stuff in that book is just made up, old legends from...

So I don't know, you can try, and we can see, okay? I have a feeling it's not real, okay? But anyway, the idea is, what if you do genetic modification of the cause, okay?

And I think you've got to meditate on that, because I'm not sure how it relates, okay? Suppose it is true. But this is the other party, right?

The other person, so... We don't even know that for sure. I mean, the dung is still there, right?

Dung and dung, and then the next... I don't know this text, you know, this text is from outer space. All right, who's going to read?

Please continue, okay? Yeah, thank you, teacher. Nice, nice.

Yeah, your reading is really good. All you guys are reading well. I think word's been working hard.

Ben Kramer. Chak means what? Do you guys know again?

[Speaker 3]
Iron.

[Speaker 1]
Iron, yeah, chak. Yeah, it can also refer to a whip, but that's another story, okay? Chaki tulum.

Tulum means like a cannonball shape, okay? Like a sphere, you know? Usually it's like a cannonball.

When you put it... Sekpa here means burn, like jinsek, right? Like fire offering.

But it means when you put a cannonball in a fire. Marpo juktu, it will get a red heart. This marpo means red heart, okay?

Red heart. Juktu means afterwards. Nambar shikpe gyu chen.

And then the cannonball, when you take it out of the fire, it goes back. The red disappears, right? The red glow disappears.

But that cannonball gets a patina. So patina in English means like rust on the iron, okay? So if you take a cannonball and you don't put it in the fire, it's kind of glossy and black.

But if you put it in the fire and you bring it up to glowing temperature, and then you let it cool down, there's a layer of oxidized metal. They call it anodyne or something like that. There's a layer of oxidized metal on the outside, and that's called sab marpo, okay?

Here it's called sab marpo. It should be marpo, I think. It means like a red colored layer on the top of the cannonball, okay?

And that layer becomes present only after its cause is gone, okay? Only after you take the out of the fire and the red glowing metal is gone, the red glow is gone, then you get this crust on the metal, you know, this red crust on the metal. Therefore, it is possible for a cause which is gone to create a result which is present.

You can call it the cannonball example, okay? And by the way, with the lemon blossom, I guess what he's saying is the lemon blossom is not only gone by the time the tree comes out of it, out of the seed, but you can even change the tree that comes out of the seed. So, the seed must be really gone, okay?

It's not even a lemon seed anymore. It's an elephant tree. It's called an elephant tree or something.

Yeah. Oh, snake tree. Yeah, okay.

After the genetic engineering is done and the different kind of species of tree has come out, are you saying that the cause was a lemon seed? Because it can't be, because lemon seed is gone before the new kind of tree came out, okay? All right.

Who's going to read, Sugeng? Can I invite Oscar? By the way, whoever's, you know, Vasubandhu's having a good time in this section.

He's making a lot of jokes. I think he had a good day when he wrote this. Okay, very cool.

Oscar, can you please?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, thanks.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, lobar means suddenly, and it's important in philosophy about when you discuss the body of a person, for example. But it means, I'm giving you ideas and suddenly you seem distressed, you know? I'm throwing ideas at you.

I can see your face is not so happy right now. That's what he says. Nyam ngawa means very similar to nyang ngen, which means grief, right?

You don't look so bright right now after I gave you the cannonball example and the lemon blossom example. You're starting to look a little pale there, okay? All right.

Oscar, please continue. Yeah, and the other guy says, I don't have a problem. Why do you think I have a problem?

Okay, you know, I don't have a problem. Why do you think I have a problem, you know? That happens in these conversations in real life, right?

Yeah, I don't have a problem. You have a problem. I don't have a problem.

He says, what do you mean I have a problem? Now I think Oscar should do this one too. Oscar, how's your bass playing going?

I'm studying. I'm trying. All right, like we got to play together in Mexico City somewhere.

Yeah, and crucial verb here, Sugeng, why? R-T-O-G, why? Crucial.

It could be wrong. Yeah, good. It doesn't have an S on it.

So if it said, R-T-O-G, it would mean to realize or to understand, but this TOG means you think, okay? And you know, you think I was there yesterday, but I wasn't, you know, like that. Okay, so you have this weird idea that you could get a debu from gyu mepa.

You can get results from without the cause. Or you got another weird idea that the cause could be shigpa, and then the debu comes out. Could have disappeared.

Right, good. Yeah, and by the way, it's not a stupid question. I mean, the question of how a seed can cause a tree when the seed is already gone by the time the tree comes out, and they have a relationship of cause and effect, it doesn't make sense, because you cannot have a relationship where one thing does exist and the other thing doesn't exist.

It's not logical. Cause and effect in the world is illogical. All cause and effect of all science, for example, is illogical.

Okay, that should be enough to make you a Buddhist already. Okay, let's invite Venerable Chunzong. All right, Venerable Chunzong.

Hello. Hello, how are you? Good.

[Speaker 3]
Please. Okay. Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, so again, it's not the case that kyurwa, the sour, no, no. Is this the sour? It's not the case that sourness can shigpa.

Can disappear. And then this chi means later on. And then later on, you get more sourness somehow.

Okay. It's not the case that a sour lemon in 2024 dies, the seed makes a tree, and then in 2025, you get a lemon tree, it makes new lemons. You cannot say that the lemon which caused the lemon tree, which caused the new year's lemons, is gone.

You can't say that. Okay. This is us, right?

Yeah, okay. Then we say, well, where the hell did it come from then? Kang lai shen, that means, where the heck did it come from?

Where did the second crop of lemons come from? Okay. All right.

Who's going to read this again? Venerable Chunzong, please continue. Yeah, so for Vasubandhu, the word chedak has a lot of importance.

Why, Sugeng? He's talking about the details, the result. No, I mean the cause.

Why is that word so important to Vasubandhu? He's using it to describe the factors, the conditions. No, I'll give you a clue.

This chedak in Sanskrit is vai, V-A-I, vai. Chedak mawa? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Vaibhashika. He's a vaibhashika. He's a chedak mawa.

So, I mean, his Abhidharma book was chedak mawa. So, it's kind of a loaded word for Vasubandhu. So, here it means the detail, okay?

The detail of being sour, okay? The sourness flows in a flow. The sourness carries on from year to year in a flow, because that's different from the lemon, okay?

It has a tui chedak. There's some kind of special power to a lemon where the sourness is carried on. Scientists would say genetically, or something like that, you know?

It's separate from the lemon. The lemon is destroyed, I agree. The lemon is gone, I agree.

But there's some kind of genetic code that's passed on, okay? Like that, okay? And it's the same as a scientist.

A scientist doesn't want to admit that something which is gone has created something which is here, okay? They try to make up stuff. They're making up genetic code.

Oh, the lemon is gone, but the genetic code is still there. Something like that, okay? All right.

Who's going to go next again? Okay, how about Chloe? Hello.

Hello, how are you?

[Speaker 3]
Nice.

[Speaker 1]
De dak kyi ni, they have produced marwa nyi. That means what, Sugeng? Marpo nyi.

Marwa nyi. The red color, the redness? Yeah, the redness.

So the ness is the nyi, right? And that's the... Now, you gotta...

It's the original redness of the hot metal, okay? This one is the hot metal. You can read nyi as the first redness, okay?

And then that saw marwa nyi, that I would think as len, the result of a red coating, the result of a red layer, okay? So len, in ancient language, can... I mean in the modern language, it means to answer to a question.

But in the ancient language, it can mean consequence. So the consequence of the consequence of the red layer, which is the consequence, is planted when the cannonball is made red, okay? Tapa.

Tapa means the consequence is set in motion, okay? The consequence is set in motion. When you heat up the cannonball to red hot, then the consequence of a red colored rust on the cannonball is created by that, okay?

Chi tsa marwa. Chi is important word in these discussions. What's it mean?

Later, right? Yeah, later on, yeah. Without the s, what does it mean?

Outer. Outer. Yeah, it means outside, outside.

Like the word in Buddhism for Buddhist is nangpa, inside. And the word in Buddhist for non-Buddhist is a chiba, okay? Outsider.

But if you add an s, it changes meaning. It becomes later, okay? And maybe they're related, right?

But anyway, later on, then he says, chi tsa marwa nangpa shikpay gyu chen kyewa mayu no. You can't say that something has arisen from the cause of the, you cannot say that the red rust has arisen from a cause which has disappeared. You cannot say that.

You can say that the second red came from the first red, but you can't say that the second red came from the first red after the first red disappeared, okay? And I think this guy wants to say when the first red causes the second red, the first red disappears after the second red shows up, which means that a red, a first red that wasn't there didn't create a second red. Okay.

So don't confuse. The second, the first red is gone by the time the second red is there, but that doesn't mean it wasn't there when the second red started, okay? Usually the first red is referring to the fire, to the heat of the fire, like you mentioned.

No, it's like when you throw a piece of metal into a big fire, the metal gets red hot. In English we say red hot. Oh, and then the second red is the redness after the fire is gone, right?

Yeah, it's like, it looks like rust. It looks like rust. It's a, we call patina or like a rust coating, oxidized layer, something like that, okay?

So he said, look, the first red can cause the second red and disappear after it causes it, but I'm not saying that the first red disappeared first and then it was gone and then the first red that was gone created a second red. I'm not saying that. I'm saying the first red disappeared after the second red started, but I'm not saying a first red that was never there created a second red.

I'm not saying that, okay? And by the way, the whole conversation is ignorant, you know? The whole conversation is insane according to Buddhism, you know?

Okay. Okay, go ahead. Yeah, Chloe, can you continue?

Oh, by the way, we got five minutes to go and then at nine o'clock world central time, Nick, sorry you don't live in the world's central time, we're gonna have a 15-minute conversation led by Sugeng about how can you use this stuff in your real life, okay? Okay, who's gonna read, Sugeng? Yeah, Chloe, can you continue, please?

Thank you. Okay, Sugeng, I got this problem with Chinese people. Y, English Y-I, English Y-I, it's pronounced yee, yee, okay?

And I know in Chinese you say in. Okay, so you gotta slow down when you hear, when you see, if you're a native Chinese speaker and you see a Y in West Chinese language, you have to slow down and consciously say yin, yin, and you can't say in, okay? Okay, because that has a different meaning, okay?

All right, and Americans have a different problem, they can't hear the tones at all, so you know, every language has its problems. Well, what happens with the red ball thing, okay? Zelna means, if you look for, what's the famous verb that comes from this root?

Cross-strait, chak-so. Yeah, chak-so. Aspirated, this is unaspirated, so, but it means to look for something, looking for something, okay?

Looking for what? I'm looking for the kin, the factor, which didn't help the red ball to get its coating, okay? I'm looking for the factor that did not help the coating to come, okay?

And it's just the rongshin of chak. The nature of iron. Yeah, it's just the nature of iron, you know, don't worry about cause and effect, blah, blah, you know.

The nature of iron, okay, is that naturally that ball, that cannonball, tulung, is made of the jungwa chenpo, okay? Jungwa chenpo means what, you guys? The great elements.

Yeah, we had it in Seiji's text a couple days ago, okay? Mahabhuta, right? The great four elements or five elements, okay?

What's the fifth element that you don't sometimes include? Consciousness?

[Speaker 3]
Space?

[Speaker 1]
That's six actually, yeah, space is five. But anyway, tulung jungwa chenpo de jungwa dang je su tunpa yinpichun no. When the iron ball gets its patina or its coating of rust on it afterwards, it's not the iron ball, it's the elements in the iron ball, okay?

So, don't worry about it, okay? The redness of the, the red color of the iron ball in the fire, the red hot color, is not the cause of the patina, it's the elements, okay? And this is the scientific method, this is the scientific method, okay?

The sourness of the lemon in the second year is caused by the genetic code of the, of the previous lemon. It's not caused by the previous lemon. They just make up something inside the lemon that helps the lemon to be sour next time.

It's the same mistake in a different package, you know? It's very funny. And here's somebody doing it 2,000 years ago.

Oh, it's, it's not the cannonball got red, and it's not the cannonball got this red coating on it, it's that the elements in the cannonball got red, and then the elements had a coating later, like that. He thinks if he makes up a new scientific word, everything's okay. See what I mean?

Okay? Wow. All right.

We're gonna stop there, and Sugeng, you're gonna do 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 8, there's 8 kind of very sudden sentences. They go bang, bang, bang, bang, 8 times, and you're gonna translate those, okay? And then when you get to the end of that, there's six uchepa, which means the author says, I'll give you a poem that will explain the whole thing.

And he gives a little poem of four lines, and I want you to translate up to the end of that, okay? And by the way, that poem should sound like a ditty. Amir, what's a ditty?

It should sound like a rapper. Okay, I see. Because that's ,,,, Like the English has to carry like a rapper, okay?

Because it's really meant that way. It's meant to wake people up halfway through this book. Geshe-la, you missed your calling.

I know.

[Speaker 3]
Someone's got to put some beats along with that. Make a recording.

[Speaker 1]
Drop a track. Maybe I can finally make a living.

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Here, $118.25. Okay, so gang, I'm out of here. Okay, thank you, Geshe-la. Thank you.

So, yeah. So, today's discussion was very interesting. Basically, not only...

I mean, it's very much related to science. There are... I kind of like that Master Vasubandhu is...

I mean, 2,000 years ago, he was already talking about this scientific method. I'm wondering, when did this scientific method start? Maybe it's longer than that.

Or maybe it's after that. I don't know. But amazingly, our Master is using that to...

Or rather, to debunk all this discussion into the Wheel of Life. So, much later. Yeah, thank you, Venerable Lumpala.

Yeah, I think it's much later, if I remember correctly. So, wow. Sometimes, I'm just wondering what was inside the mind of all the great Masters.

They seem to be able to sort of predict what is going to happen later. So, yeah. Anybody has any idea how we can use this in our daily life?

I think one thing that I got from this discussion is that I'm a very left-brained person, meaning that I rely a lot on logics, and I rely a lot on the scientific side of things. But what I'm learning here is that I need to also bring in the seeds and also bring in the feeling. You know, a lot of times, being too logical, I had arguments with my wife.

She's the other extreme of me. So, I think I need to really expand the right brain of myself. Oh, yeah, I saw somebody raise their hand.

Anastasia Kovalenko. You want to say something? Please.

[Speaker 3]
Hi, do you hear me?

[Speaker 1]
Yes, very well.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, thank you for the class. I'm just like, maybe we cannot apply this for daily life, but I'm thinking why we cannot consider that life in the womb is also a circle of life.

[Speaker 1]
When we get born, we also kind of die a little bit, because we don't remember our past life.

[Speaker 3]
So, I don't remember what was happening in the womb with me. Maybe I already created some kind of karma which made me reborn, but maybe if I get born, but if I maybe did some other choice, maybe I already would be enlightened, you know?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, thank you. That's a good point. In fact, yeah, when I first learned about the wheel, I realized that the wheel is not just telling us that, hey, this is your life, but in every moment of our life, it can be just like a small wheel.

So, thank you for mentioning it here. Yeah. Oh, wow, who is this?

Oh, Mike Hoffman, please. Good morning, and thank you, Jeff, for the class. I was thinking that when we were talking about the cannonball, that we have this nice, shiny, beautiful cannonball, and then we put it into a fire, and the cannonball heats up and it gets red hot, and then afterwards something happens to that cannonball as a result of the fire, this patina, this rough coating that develops.

So, I'm thinking like it reminded me of like I'm in this nice mood, and I'm feeling good, and I'm happy, and then something happens, and I put myself into anger, and I heat myself up like this red hot cannonball, and then I don't realize, but there's this patina developing, and then much later, like two weeks down the road, I wonder why I'm like getting anxious, or like why am I frustrated, or why am I sitting on my couch, and I can't make my brain stop giving me all these negative thoughts, and I don't see that it was because I heated that cannonball up in the fire. I wasn't connecting the patina and the cannonball.

So, it just kind of gave me a reminder to when I start feel myself heating up that I should try to take myself out of the fire before too much of that patina develops. Thanks. Yeah, I like this.

In fact, I think this patina can become a new life too. So, you know, like, I mean, sometimes I just feel that hey, my mind is like, I don't know, just a kind of strange feeling. I suddenly have a strange worry that I don't know where it came from.

So, this could be the patina effect, meaning that patina effect means something negative that I've done before causing it to happen to make me feel this feeling. Yeah, thank you, Mike. I think patina effect can be a good life tool to use.

Yeah, I think I will use it myself, you know, especially when I'm suddenly, unknowingly, I'm not feeling good, you know, like, I mean, these few days, we are doing some preparing spring cleaning for the Chinese New Year, and I'm supposed to feel happy, but I just feel, hey, something is not going right. So, this could be patina effect. Thank you, Mike.

Anybody else has any other comments? By the way, I'm looking at Bertha, and she was like, she's so animated, it's so fun. We can create a patina dance to the next rap.

Oh, yeah, Tracy. Patina effect, I like this name. Anybody else has any ideas?

You know, yeah, please, anybody. You know, today, I was just reading. Okay, Toto, please, please.

This whole thing just reminded me of an experience I had 15 years ago. I just learned about the pan story. Somebody invited me over to a reading club to introduce the idea.

So, I got into a debate, and people were like, you were just, you know, talking about those Indian philosophical nonsense. I was like, what? And then we somehow ended up talking about the internet of color, of the color red.

And then one of those guys got me. He's like, it is red because the wavelength decides the color. And then I was like, you know, and I was so frustrated.

I had no answer to that, and I was so frustrated walking back home. And it was a very unforgettable experience. And then if we argue that, you know, the dog doesn't see red, then that guy would be like, because the dog has a problem with his retina or his brain, you know.

And with the same logic, how do we break that? I was wondering, you know. Yeah, they have different retina structures.

They are seeing a different red. Which proves the point. So, Gang, can you hear me?

Yes, very well. Thank you. I was thinking about what, you know, how I can use it in daily life.

And I'm going back to the pan story that Dodo just explained. Like if you would debate the quality of the pen writing and what caused it, which is another cause and effect, the idea, right? And you would try to have that debate with the dog.

There is no cause that creates the quality of the pen writing because there is no pen for the dog. So, the whole debate of if the quality of the pen is created by whatever reason, is completely going into nothingness because the dog will never see the pen. And I'm thinking, what in my life, what is me right now, is not created at all for other beings, and they don't see the cause for the problem that I have even, because they don't have the perception at all.

And I kind of like that because it disproves, obviously, the possibility that the sourness of a lemon could come from an earlier lemon. And it must come from something completely different. And then in my life, if I can stop trying to fight the cause and effect that I see, which other people don't have at all, just like the dog doesn't have a good or bad quality writing pen because it doesn't have a pen.

You know what I mean? Yeah, but I'm trying to link that to the sour feeling. So, are you saying that the sourness that you are experiencing now shouldn't come from the previous sourness?

I'm saying it comes from a seed, and if I'm not me, then the sourness will taste something completely different. There is no sourness that doesn't come from it. And the story of the cannonball or the lemon tree is just a story.

Cool, cool, yeah. Lemon from someone is not sour. For example.

Ah, yeah. Different breed, different type of lemon is not sour, right? Different being, the lemon is not the lemon.

It's not lemon. Yeah, cool, cool. Yeah, it's kind of difficult to focus because I see Hector in the background, so I'm very distracted.

That's why I asked you to sit there. Yeah, because I'm seeing the white color, you know, so that is so... I'm sorry.

So, yeah, thank you. I remember Geshe-la always said that if you talk about seeds, then there is no more discussion, right? But I'm very intrigued with the logic, I mean, with the line of thoughts of Master Vasubandhu in this discussion.

I mean, I try not to pull in Arya Nagarjuna's idea here, you know, talking about cause and effect, not related, but I try to isolate myself and try to see what Master Vasubandhu had in mind when he wrote these texts. So I think I really need to cook this idea. It's kind of fun.

So, yeah, thank you, Peter. And good to see everybody there. I think that is Tim's house, right?

Yeah. That's Tim's house. All right.

Anybody else has any idea, any more idea? So, yeah, I mean, we talk about the patina of the ball. It shouldn't come from the redness.

The red patina of the ball shouldn't come from the redness of the fire. And today I was just reading something, you know, it's about the brass equipment, the music equipment, the wind brass equipment. And they're saying that the brass, the patina will come when you use it a lot.

So this is another reason for, this is another cause for patina. So it shouldn't be just from the fire. It can be from our hands, oil or anything.

So it's kind of suddenly this term appeared tonight. So there could be something. Yeah.

Thank you. Thank you, Geshe-la, for the teaching. Thank you, everyone, for contributing.

And I think it's time for our Pitch Tree World News. Let's welcome Juan Hasso.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you, Sugeng. Thank you, Sugeng. Thank you.

I'm wondering how it's going to work here. So here we are at Tim's house, at the top of the mountains in Dream Rock, beautiful Dream Rock. And, you know, we have many, many special guests today here in the room.

One of them who survived the knife is Rob Haggerty. They're at the very back. Can you see?

Would you want to come real quick to say hi or no? No, he cannot walk very well yet. Maybe, I don't know.

But I don't know. You see there we have like Hector, Maria, Peter, Ronit is there. I don't know if you can see.

Yeah, Igor is there. Now you see. So very happy family here.

We send our best wishes. And first, really quickly, I would like to invite everyone here present. Excuse me, tech table, because I'm going to make some unexpected change.

But I want to invite everyone here and online as well to celebrate with us. We are having very soon a New Year event, a special New Year event. First, we celebrate the Western New Year.

But now we are celebrating the Eastern New Year, the New Year that most Asian countries celebrate. More linked, as far as I understand, with the moon. And if the tech table could help me.

Thank you so much, by the way, because they are not only tech table. They are great friends. And they are also like designers and a lot of, I'll say, crafts and arts.

So I would like to see if they can help me to share the picture. Yes, thank you so much. Okay, so there you go.

We're going to get together next, not next Wednesday, but the other week in 10 days from now. It's Tuesday, actually, in the United States, in Arizona. It's going to be Wednesday in Asia.

We're going to get together at the Peachtree Cafe because, you know, they close on Tuesday. So we are just lucky that then we can sneak in, move all the tables around and have a little party there. It's going to be a one hour program.

We're going to be celebrating the Wooden Snake Year. And me personally, I hope this year, this year, well, I guess, fine. I'm just thinking about that.

We get a lot of wisdom because for me, the snake represents wisdom because I link it to Nagarjuna, for example. So I just wish that somehow can work. Okay, let's go to another news.

We are celebrating that Sugeng's book now is available. And you can go to the website. It's the other picture.

Yes, Stop the Circle of Sadness. Now you can find it there. Geshe Michael showed us a little bit about it a few moments ago.

And I don't know, in my regards, I just want to celebrate, to congratulate Sugeng for the great work he's doing and for your class today. But this time most especially because your book now is available for all of us. So you can go there and get it.

And to remind you that last Monday, it was Monday. Yes, Joel was here in regards of ALL. And he was talking about the new website.

It's available for all of us to start reaching this data. You see, this is the snow on the mountain system that we are enjoying here. And that's where you can see in the mountain.

He made this beautiful picture. That's where the data comes from in this metaphor. And the cool thing is like now it's super easy to access.

It's the next picture. The next picture is actually kind of that. I just like to imagine that that's kind of in the Geshe Michael's fridge.

And that's what he's, you know, daily task. Part of his daily task, finding the books, making them available, distributing them, translating them. So now actually you can go next picture, please.

This website is very, very cool. Just as a reminder, I haven't done the homework Utpala asked me to do. I know I've been complaining that nobody gives me the answers.

Now I can find them myself, hopefully. But now I'm lazy and I haven't done it, but I will do it. So, but all of you check it out.

Check it out. This is really, really cool. Last Monday, he showed us how we can use it.

You just go there and start finding whatever Jose mentions of a specific word in this. How it's called? Western Chinese language is.

You need to know it, but it's amazing. It's really, really amazing. Soon we will have again, Joel, to have more tutorials about how to use it.

But just as a reminder, you can follow the QR code. You'll be impressed about the wonders this website can do. Okay.

And then what do we have next? We have the invitation to New Year, but that's already done. And reminder, Bhagavad Gita is coming up very, very soon.

And the YSI team has been doing a lot of materials. They are getting us all excited about this upcoming course, Bhagavad Gita. So, in order to share with you some of that excitement, they have some videos that I want to share with you.

So, please take table and you help me with the first video. And then for the audience, enjoy and try to get inspired because I think the course is going to be amazing.

[Speaker 1]
So, I did the Yoga Sutra. And we just finished studying the Atharvagita Gita. And the next course will be on the Gita.

What excites you about the opportunity to study the Gita? Everything. I'm just excited because I've never studied the Gita before.

It's one of those texts that I've heard about so many times and I know is so foundational to yoga. And to be able to dive into the Gita with Master Teachers that I know have studied and embodied the principles that the text talks about. It feels like a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to dive in and figure out what is in this text for me.

How will it speak to me and how can I bring that into yoga? A lot of us think of yoga as this physical thing.

[Speaker 3]
We imagine a yoga class with a teacher and the physical movements, which is great. But honestly, yoga is so much more. The point of yoga is actually for it to change your entire life.

Transform your world in the Gita. You're going to get the most famous text in yoga that explains what yoga is really about. All of the added things that are so much more than just moving your body that teach you how to change your world.

In the Bhagavad Gita, you have someone who's faced with this life challenge. And he uses yoga, not only the answer of that particular dilemma, but to change his entire world, his entire life. That's the whole point of yoga.

That's what it's meant to do. Knowing your energetic body and knowing your physical body is so that you can have a better life and transcend to this world completely. This is the text that shows you how and gives you an example of someone who's done that.

[Speaker 1]
The Gita, I think it's the most well-studied spiritual text, certainly in the Indian tradition. You know, it's the heart and soul of India. And what we have with Geshe Michael's teaching is somebody that is able to translate the Sanskrit.

He's so familiar with the literature of these time periods. What I'm really looking forward to is having his unique perspective on the text. And to look at these ideas, but from a context and a perspective of through the eyes of Jatakappa, or through the eyes of a more Himalayan perspective on this teaching.

So that's probably what I'm most looking forward to about this opportunity to study. One of, if not the most greatest spiritual texts. One of my goals as a teacher with YSI is to crush the general idea of what yoga is, because it's so small.

It's this thing that we do on a yoga mat, or it's this thing that, I don't know, like it's not for business people. It's not for this, it's only for this part of society. It's not, that's such a small view of what yoga is.

Yoga is so much more. And at YSI, what I want to do is create this vision of a yogi as someone that's incredibly powerful, that walks through the world with grace, and with truth, and with honesty, and with vision, and excitement. And that's yoga to me, and the Gita, this text that we're going to be studying, is kind of like the quintessential instruction book on how to walk through life, and how to engage with life, particularly in the struggles, in the hard times, and how to face the challenges, and how to face the controversy.

And it's a story of somebody that did that and came out ahead. That's the essence of the Gita for me, and it's just such a beautiful metaphor for how I think we should view yoga in the world.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, so we send our dearest regards to Errol over there, and hopefully he will be here soon, and all the YSI team as well, of course. And in regards to that, they are having an interesting, very, I think, I mean, probably it's going to be a very amazing talk on Wednesday. We have a poster for that.

Benji and Teresa are going to be talking about how the practice of Lady Nigum connects with the Bhagavad Gita, which I find, I mean, it's intriguing to me. Try to, I'm curious about how they're going to do that. So we have also a small, short invitation that Rebecca, sorry, not Rebecca, Teresa sent about this upcoming course.

It's not a course, it's a class, one session on Wednesday, and of course that's also somehow meant to get us excited to actually come to Bhagavad Gita. So Teresa sent me this video, and then, yeah, I'm sharing here with you.

[Speaker 3]
Hi there, I wanted to invite you. On the 22nd of January, Benji Bridges and I will be giving a talk. In this talk, Benji and I will be trying to find the similarities between the story of Lady Niguma and the Bhagavad Gita.

Lady Niguma teaches love and compassion towards all beings as a way, as a path to reach the clear light. And the Bhagavad Gita also highlights the importance of living a life of selfless service and love towards others. Lady Niguma herself, as Arjuna, had to deal with these important decisions, leaving her family.

She already understood what Krishna teaches us in the Bhagavad Gita. She already knew the emptiness of the decisions we have to make. She already had mastered high teachings that Krishna is giving to Arjuna.

So it will be an amazing journey. We invite you to explore with us.

[Speaker 2]
Cool, thank you, Teresa. And you guys can follow the QR code if you want to watch, or participate, not watch, but, you know, attend to that session on upcoming Wednesday. There is the QR code.

It's going to take you to the YSI website. Just scroll down a little bit and you will find the link for that particular session in the QR code that we're very soon going to be showing you. Yeah, just follow that.

And then, as I say, go to the YSI website, scroll down a little, you'll find the link for it. Okay, so let's just finish this round of news with a general reminding of other upcoming events. We talk about what's happening pretty much in January and February, but also in February we have the sun.

No, I don't know, in Mexico, I don't know why we say sun, but here it's only Valentine's. Yeah, in Mexico we call it Saint Valentine's. Probably he was misbehaving more in the United States, I don't know.

But in Mexico they say it's a saint. So Valentine's couple retreat in 2025. Diamond Mountain is having this initiative.

Apparently they say no, no. What's the name of that animal? No, the animal?

No javelinas and no rattlesnakes are provided, but you still can have a great time over there. You can follow the QR code and find out what's the deal. And to remind you that Dende also having this big event in April is the next picture.

Apparently, how to say, they're warning the street, the rumors is that no more places available in cabins or carriages. You can still camp, you can sleep in your car. That's why they put a car there, I guess.

And you can also get a hotel. And if you follow that, they split the cost. I think they are having like a whole plan to help people to accommodate them one way or the other.

And it's very cool because it's going to be the new beginning of the five houses. Okay, we'll soon have Tim to give us more details about it. He's whispering behind the screen.

And then after this, well, actually, I think it's slightly before this. The other wonderful desert in this world who holds wisdom as Diamond Mountain does is the Dunhuang Cave China Tour, which has been organized mostly by Stanley and Xiaoping. But also you can talk to Chloe because she's having a very good producer career these days.

And she's helping them with some details. So yeah, just follow the QR codes or talk to Chloe, talk to Stanley, talk to Xiaoping. And I think that's it for today.

Do we have one more event? I think there is one more thing. Yes, July.

I was talking to Jack in the car. July 18th to 20th, we are going to Mexico. And you know, Mexico is one of the most beautiful countries in the world with one of the most beautiful people in the world.

So you're all welcome to come. Hope you enjoy. And just a reminder, next 10 days from now, Chinese and Asian celebration party.

We hope you all can come. Thank you very much. And see you on Monday if everything goes well.

Hopefully all our visitors can have a spot soon. Hopefully soon, next Monday or Saturday, you all can just come and say hi and talk a little bit of what you're doing these days. Okay, see you.

Thank you.