Сугэн Ши — Книга 2: Колесо жизни (первый принцип и подразделения зависимости), занятие 65

[Speaker 1]
Hi, everybody. Welcome. Welcome to the Monday edition of Xuanzang's Tower, or Tuesday, depending where you are in the world.

Happy to see you. Happy to be here with you all, as always. Up first, we've got a class with Professor Dr. Su Gengxin. And after that, I think we've got Edward Smith. Exciting programming lined up today. Waiting for the boss.

Are you here, Geshe Michael? Yeah, hang on. I'm trying to take your time.

[Speaker 3]
Do you feel like vertical stripes create some sort of strange optical illusion on Zoom?

[Speaker 1]
It's called the mireille. Yeah, there's a word for it. A mireille.

And I avoid this shirt almost every time.

[Speaker 3]
But here we are. Yeah, I guess you could have told me that we were avoiding this shirt today.

[Speaker 1]
I know. But then what would be the, we wouldn't have learned about the word mireille.

[Speaker 3]
You've already changed the word just since this conversation started.

[Speaker 1]
I don't know how to pronounce it right. I'm just hedging my bets. I'm seeing some furious shrugs from the translators.

That's a good point. That's not fair for us to do to the interpreters. I'm seeing some very kindly shrugs from the translators.

I learned that word when Geshe Michael was doing those Chinese language videos back in the day at Casa Jardim. And he was wearing a shirt just like this one. And in fact, he is wearing vertical stripes today.

Oh wow. Yeah.

[Speaker 3]
It's kind of our thing.

[Speaker 1]
So Geng's got his hair combed. I think he should start his homework. Thank you.

Thank you. Yeah, they're standing. Okay, let me do the homework now.

Here it is. No, this is the one. All right.

Good afternoon. Good morning to all the friends. This is the homework we did a little bit last month.

And let's see if we still remember anything. Why do we say that the state of mind operating in the desire could not immediately follow the state of mind immediately at the top of samsara? So why do we say that the state of mind operating in the desire could not immediately follow the state of mind immediately at the top of samsara?

[Speaker 3]
Is this the good top of samsara or the bad top of samsara?

[Speaker 1]
Because there are seven other levels interrupting in between those two. Yes. Yeah.

Because there are seven other levels. So Ben is asking whether good or bad. If it is samsara, is there anything good in there?

No, it's impermanence. It's impermanence. We should call it bad.

Thank you. Okay, now why would it be incorrect to say that the mind ripening in the highest of the formless realm is the state of mind that you have as you are born in the desire realm? So this question seems to be very similar to the previous one, but somehow the angle is different.

Unshifting karma could never ripen in the desire realm. Oh, okay. My volume is low.

Okay. Yeah. Unshifting karma will never ripen in the desire in the desire realm.

That's right. That's right. Wow.

How do you remember all this stuff? Okay. Now the last one is there.

So is that free will according to Master Vasubandhu in the world of life teaching?

[Speaker 3]
No. No.

[Speaker 1]
Hope so. Hope not. If something is a ripening of karma, it cannot be free will.

All right. So now let's go to vocabulary. Jukthok.

Jukthok. Jukthok. Good pronunciation.

Jukthok. Thank you, Keshila. Just after.

Just after. The highest level of the formless realm, peak of existence. Level of the formless realm.

There are three things. I mean, I just pick up all this summit of existence, this point or highest of the four formless realms. That's a good way to say it.

Those three are good. Thank you, Keshila. Finally, the last one.

Say it. Sorry. All of you are speaking together.

It's better than the silent answer. Yes. The ability to do whatever you want.

The ability to do it, everyone. No, I just pick up what they're free will to do whatever you want. In the text, it's free will.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, good.

[Speaker 1]
Good. By the way, it's not a common expression. That's the first time I've seen it.

Okay. Okay. Thank you.

All right. Now, that translation. Yeah.

I think the only suggestion I have is, you know, he expanded this second half. He said, ,'GA'I YANG PHYI'I RGA'I BYAR YOD PA MA YIN, right? So, ,'PHYI'I RGA'I BYAR, you had it in your vocabulary as free will.

But he adds ,'GA'I YANG PHYI'I here. It's kind of like the ability to do whatever you want, whenever you want. It's a little bit more detailed.

Yeah. The ,GA'I YANG. Yeah.

Whenever you want. Also. In any way you want.

Yeah.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Whenever you want, in any. Yeah. Like that.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

But it's okay. Sounds good. Thank you.

,GA'I YANG generally means anything at all. Yeah. So, Garing, how's your programs?

You've got a lot of programs going on. Yeah. We were in Medan with J.B. and Connie, and it was exciting. We have friends from Malaysia and from Vietnam. Is Medan where Atisha was or something like that? The island.

The island. Sumatra. Yeah.

Cool.

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
We arrived in Yogyakarta last night. So, tomorrow I'm doing the Jewel of Sharing. Nice.

You're at Borobudur. We are at Yogyakarta, which is one hour away from Borobudur. Yeah.

Good. You're going to take the car there tomorrow? No.

Tomorrow we start. We are doing the program in Yogyakarta. We will only visit Borobudur, I think, end of this week.

Okay. All right. Cool.

The karma to be here is very, very heavy, Geshe-la. Lots of challenges along the way. Yeah.

Everybody. Yeah. Everybody.

All right. So, the next one, nyongpar jukpa de la, nyongpar jukpa po nam ni, chigar war yukpa yang yinpe nampar mimpa le, kyepar yinpar mirik so. Yeah.

With regards to deep cessation meditation, it's incorrect to say that the persons in the state might have free will, and therefore they could be coming from karmic ripening. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, that's okay. There's a couple of nyongpar jukpa they could be. I don't remember which one it is necessarily, but one nyongpar jukpa is cessation meditation.

Yeah, I believe it is that, where you stop your mind and mental functions temporarily, right? We're going to have a lot, we're going to have a very deep discussion of that today in words class. All right.

Okay. Okay. The next one.

chok lam la sokpe ngo war yang ma yinpe, ngokpe nyongpar jukpa nam ni, chok lam la sokpa ngumpar njuk du che pa mi sipay chiro Yeah, it is also not the nature of those regular activities, because it is impossible for those in deep state of purity. Yep, that's nice. Okay.

Yep. Yeah, like, yeah, regular daily activities like eating and sleeping and walking around. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Okay.

Thank you, Geshe-la. Please take it away. By the way, the last of the Vajrayogini practices, yogas, is called chok lam gyi ngel drel.

That's where you see this word a lot. It's like having a magical vision of the world all day, every day, as you walk around, as you do your normal stuff. So, chok lam means sort of doing your normal stuff.

Yeah. Let me see if I got your text up or not. I don't think so.

Let me see. Is everything okay, Geshe-la? Yeah, everything's okay.

I'm in Phoenix, prostrating to the doctors. It's a wonderful activity. It seems almost endless.

Are you going back tomorrow? Is that why you're staying the night? Uh, yeah.

I had to, well, I had to do this class and I couldn't get back to VLC in time. So, unfortunately, I'll have to go out to dinner with my wife, which is very painful. Okay.

Okay, I got it. Let's see here. I don't see my screen share.

Here it is. Oh, yeah. Okay, here we go.

All right. I got to look up chok lam. See, I've been wandering around.

Let's see. Yeah, here, right? This is where we are.

Okay. All right. Who's going to read, Dr. Sugeng?

Oh, okay. Okay, let's start with Tian Dodo. Uh-oh, Dodo.

Yeah, we gave you a short one. Yeah, hang on just a second. Let me get you guys a big cursor.

Not big cursing. Okay. All right.

NGON PA'I DU BYED PA means to collect one's thoughts consciously, like to think of something consciously. Okay? NGON PA'I DU BYED PA.

Like to focus your thoughts. Okay? And then he's talking about...

why does he say REG PA MED PA, Sugeng? And I'm sorry, you guys' texts are so far apart. You're like three, four weeks apart.

It's hard to keep them, maintain the flow. I was trying to imagine a way I could add a class, but I don't see how I can do it. But I'm still thinking about it.

Like on two on Saturday or something, but then I couldn't do the meditation, so I don't know. Why does he say REG PA MED PA? Anybody?

It's very important here. Without contact. Yeah, that's the discussion, the whole discussion.

We kind of got lost in the discussion here, but we were discussing what? Do you remember? On this, we are on the midst of the four common...

four common... we are trying to prove that on the highest formless realm, there is no thoughts. There is no awareness, sorry.

We are trying to prove even without awareness, we are still... we are in the midst of talking about the awareness should come from fresh karma instead of from the combination of the context of the three parts. Nice, yeah.

We've been on this question for months, I think. Do I make contact with an outer object? Or is it that...

what's the option to that? Or is it triggered by my fresh karma? Yeah, how do I get awareness?

Okay, and he says here, I don't see how you could collect your thoughts if you couldn't make contact with the outside world, something like that. Okay, all right. By the way, I don't remember when I put this note in at the top, SOY NE.

Do you remember what SOY NE is, Sugeng? Yeah, SOY NE is the fourth one. It's the fourth type of the...

what do you call that? The neutral state of mind.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, nice, nice.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, neutral state of mind. So this is the kind of state of mind you have when you are sculpting something, or you are composing music, or something like that. So SOY NE is sort of a neutral state of mind.

Like you're not angry at anybody. You're not necessarily in love with... you are focusing on a creative task, but something like that.

Okay, all right. I think Dodo has to read the next one because he got such a short one. Okay.

Yeah, good. NAM PAR RTOGS PA BYAS NA here at the end, without the S, Sugeng, what kind of feeling does it give you without the S? Oh, the wrong realization.

Yeah, so it means if you get this idea into your head. In English we say if you get this idea into your head, it means probably not correct. Okay, and then he says, at that point, is there a point at which you could have a different kind of karmically neutral mental consciousness, right?

Okay, if you think like that. Who do you want to pick on this one, Sugeng? Okay, I saw Gibson.

I thought Gibson is... Gibson? I haven't heard him in a long time.

But I don't see him anymore, so probably... By the way, this Saturday, did you tell these guys, Nick? I don't know.

Yeah, yeah, Gibson's aware. Okay. The dentist is going to pull out two molars, so I think I'll be too bloody to have a class.

Sorry about that, Keshava. Yeah, I don't think I would be very pleasant. I was thinking you guys are going to do a team teaching.

Okay, who's going to read, Sugeng? Yeah, I see Gibson. Gibson, please.

Oh, handsome guy. Yeah, I have a bottle full of tea this week, too. Oh, nice.

Boarding in progress. Boarding in progress. Yeah, Gibson is kind of...

Are you flying someplace, Gibson?

[Speaker 2]
No, I'm in the ice cream room.

[Speaker 1]
I can't hear him, too. Okay. What's the latest news, Sugeng?

I don't know. You're not that good at behavior. Yeah, well, what's a le rung?

Oh, the meditation? Yeah, so this word, le surungwa, means the mind is fit for meditation. It's in good shape for meditation.

Le surungwa means good for work, and then a diamond way retreat is called a le rung, because it's supposed to make your mind fit for work. Usually it just puts you to sleep. Okay, and sem ma meypay ting ngen dzin.

Yeah, where you have such a deep meditation that you can't pick up any outside indicators of things. dak chit tar dey tar mikpa dang nampa yangwar chepay gyur te. And if you were also...

What's yangwar? Distraction. And then he says something strange.

I mean, he says lung du ma tenpay sem ngun tu gyurpa dupa yangway no. He says something like they are not a neutral state of mind. Okay, or we can't agree that these are a neutral state of mind.

All right. I don't know. I guess it seems to say distraction is not a neutral state of mind.

It says manifestly though, again. How do you mean? Nung gyur.

Yeah. Why would it not be nung gyur? I don't know.

I mean, it seems like it's a qualifier for some reason, as opposed to kok gyur or like in some way hidden or something. It's obvious distraction rather than subtle or something? It's supposed to be...

It's supposed to be an example that we would think maybe it was karmically neutral, but it's not karmically neutral, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And I don't know. I guess focusing in a meditation, that part's easy.

I don't think it would be karmically neutral, right? If you went into a state... We talked about in the Golden Key something very much like this, about subtle states of meditation being that...

I think we talked about ching hua, but it was karmically neutral, but it still caused an obstacle. Okay. By the way, your book is...

I spent a couple of weeks on your book and it's still giving me a headache. We're going to do it later. Okay.

Nguyen, who's going to read the next one? Okay. Oh, I see Alex reverse.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you. Yes, thank you.

[Speaker 1]
Nice. Oh, is that a picture of you in the background, Remus? Yeah, when I was a lady.

Oh, okay, okay, okay. Past life. All right.

So, jump in days again. Conquer. Yeah, nampa tam ched du.

All the... I don't know. All the what?

Nampa tam ched du. Yeah, in every way. And then it's a name of a special meditation.

It's called du she may du she may min. It's a name of a special meditation. It's called...

It doesn't have... It's not... It's not non-discrimination and it's not non-discrimination.

That's the tse tse meditation, right? Yeah, it's the particular meditative state of mind that gets you to the highest level of the formless realm, okay? It means a meditation where you...

You're beyond... You're beyond... How do you say du she?

Discrimination. Discrimination, yeah. And you're not beyond discrimination.

You're beyond discrimination and you're not beyond discrimination, okay? So you're just spaced out, all right? And that gets you to the tse tse.

Okay. YANG DRAG PA DE'I TE But the Buddha has gone beyond that, okay? The Buddha has an even higher state of mind, which is why they're out of samsara.

They went past the state of mind that karmically takes you to the highest level of samsara. Okay? Which word denotes the beyond, Geshe-la?

DE'I DE'I DE'I? Yeah, they have gone beyond, yeah. That's the same DE'I as in...

NGANG NYEN LAS DE'I PA Yeah, gone beyond grief, which is nirvana. I thought you might like to read a description of this meditation and have it for a footnote or something. So we're going to skip over to an Abhidharma text.

This is a very famous author who lived a couple hundred years ago, and he's actually the person who took the notes in Seiji's first book. He took the notes of the Crown of Knives. So I put a biography of him in the introduction, and it's very rare to find his life story.

If you're interested, I put his biography in the... He's a reincarnation of a high Bhutanese Lama, which is a long story. Here are some points.

You can go back later and read these points. This little tiny paragraph about this special strange meditation in the English summarizes what he says. So I'm going to skip it, so you have to work harder.

But later you can go back and read it. So who's going to read these first parts again? By the way, this is a fat footnote.

Yes, thank you. I think your book is going to have more footnotes than text. Okay, thank you, Geshe-la.

Yeah, I see Tim, Nguyen Tim. Oh, by the way, again, Tim got bad news today. Tim Lowenhaupt?

Yeah. Oh, what happened to him? I lost my global services status on United Airlines.

This is a secret status, super high status. The board of directors has to vote for it. And I had it for five, six years, and they kicked me out because I didn't fly enough.

And then they put Tim in. Oh, really? And today they put me back in, okay?

Yeah, I was making fun of Tim. All right. Cool.

Please read Mr. Global Services No. 2. All right.

It's like you're in a refrigerator. I'm in the tech room. No, he's in the kunshi again.

[Speaker 3]
He was never as visible.

[Speaker 1]
Your hair finally looks orderly. Oh, no, no. It's just the refrigerator.

All right. Thank you. We're back to some sentences that make sense, because this was written about 200 years ago.

So, gokpay nyom juk means what? The cessation meditation, no? Yeah, cessation meditation.

What are you cessating at that time? Mental activity? Yeah, I would say you're both okay.

Discursive thought. Let's say that for now. Let's see.

It's karmic flavor, according to Kunlun, is gewa.

[Speaker 3]
Happiness?

[Speaker 1]
By motivation, it's virtue. Yeah, because people go into it thinking it's nirvana. So, you see what I mean?

So, by motivation, it's a virtue to be in that state. That implies that maybe it's not so good otherwise. Right.

I mean, Yin Kyang, you are meditating nyom bar jukpa. Dundu means for the purpose of to stay in shiwa. Yeah, what's shi ne?

Shamatize. So, he made a verb out of it. You're trying to shamatize.

You're trying to shamatize your dzu shi and your tsorwa.

[Speaker 3]
Discrimination.

[Speaker 1]
And feeling, yeah. So, you're trying to get anesthetized. The reason you go into it is you want to go beyond any kind of discrimination feeling.

A lot of yoga teachers are meditating to try to reach this. If you go on the meditation app somewhere, 90% of people are trying to get here. And it's a mistake.

Because it is mayan. It is not. Out of a sampa.

Out of the mind? Yeah, out of a motivation. That you are ngenjung from dunyam.

You're renouncing the suffering? Yeah, that you want to get out of... It's not that you want to get out of suffering.

It's that you want to anesthetize yourself. It's like taking cocaine or something. Is it a good deed to be in that meditation?

Or is it a bad deed? Or is it neutral? It's good by motivation.

It's good by motivation. The content is not virtuous. But I don't think it's particularly non-virtuous.

It's just ignorant. Okay. And that's what most people who meditate are trying to get to that.

[Speaker 3]
But they don't go to it thinking they're just going to space out. They just think they're going to be happy and free of pain, I'm assuming.

[Speaker 1]
I think if they have a spaced out meditation, they think they had a good meditation. If they couldn't think of anything, they had a good meditation. And so it's important, I think, not to mistake it for good meditation.

At what level do you find this kind of meditation? Sugeng, who's going to read? Vietnam Nguyen Thin.

Yay Nguyen. Nguyen Thin. Thin Nguyen.

Yes, please. Yeah, thank you, teacher Sugeng. Good.

Thank you, Geshe Michael. Thank you for coming. And you're doing really good.

The sa means what, Sugeng? The level. Yeah, now it could have two meanings.

It could be the sa chu, or it could be the sa gu. What's the difference? The level of meditation or the level of samsara?

Yeah, it could be bodhisattva level. Chanjusambhidharma, bodhisattva bhumi. Or it could be the level within samsara.

There's nine mental states inside of samsara. Four for formless, four for form realm, and one for desire realm. So if he's talking about this kind of meditation, do you think he's talking about bhumi in terms of bodhisattva bhumi?

Or is he talking about bhumi in terms of samsara bhumi? Samsara bhumi. Yeah, it's samsara bhumi.

And he says this state of mind is included into the ninth level, which is the fourth level of the formless realm. By the way, when it says dupa, say dupa, what's that imply about the physical body? Physical body could be somewhere else.

Yeah, the physical body could very well be in the desire realm. You see? You could be sitting in your living room in the desire realm, but your mind is at the fourth level of the formless realm.

Causal level, right? Okay, not result level. Okay, yeah, because you are at tsetse because you are in this kind of meditation which is neither without conception nor not without conception.

As words said, it has a special relationship to the fourth formless realm. You're reborn there if you spend a lot of time in it in your lifetime. By the way, this whole section is something you rarely, rarely see, and he's giving a description of what this kind of meditation feels like, or what it's like.

Since we're mixed nuts and we already understand that it means without conception and not without conception, now we want to go deeper and see what is that, what's that mean. When we talk the lion stance, we called it heavily anesthetized or something. You're in the hospital and you're under anesthesia.

Okay, who's going to read next again? I have a quick question. Mm-hmm.

Excuse me, Sugen. Him and Master Vasubandhu both use keche for the du shen me du shen me min. Which keche do you use?

Yeah, that's a great question. That's a very good question. Usually you're just a pain in the butt, but sometimes you ask a great question.

Yeah, when you say keche, you always think of the 12 ayatanas, right? Exactly. And sometimes it refers to a meditation and doesn't refer to the 12.

In here, it's just talking about a kind of a meditation. I think we were going to make that point sooner or later here. All right, go ahead, Sugen.

Who's going to read? Inna Ivanina. Please.

Yeah, and Sugen, we had this unusual expression in the two guys in the boat. Do you remember? Two guys in the boat?

Oh, the body and the mind. Yeah, it's nama rupa, right? Which one is it?

Shiba, fourth link, right? Yes. Fourth of the 12 links.

And it was called ming suk, which means nama rupa. And it means name and form. And so the first of the five heaps we call form.

And then sometimes we refer to the last of the four five heaps. The four last of the five heaps are sometimes called ming shi pungpo. And by the way, I'm not sure if that is in the BZH.

But anyway, it means the four parts, the four skandhas, the four heaps, which are not physical. And here, word means not physical. Okay, so why is he referring to the four non-physical heaps in this case?

Those are the only four for somebody at Tse Tse. Yeah, when you're at the highest level of the formless realm, you don't have a physical body. Okay?

So do you have movement of the mind? Does the mind move? Sure.

So that means prana must be moving. Yes. Yeah, okay.

You have subtle physical form, but you don't have gross physical form. You do have prana in the formless realm. Yeah.

Okay. Who's going to read the next one, Sugeng? Guess your question.

Why do you say the one without form is only this, the fourth one? I thought out of the five, the six, out of the five, three are formless. Or three is...

No, sorry, out of the five, four are not physical, right? Yeah, that's correct. And they're called the four name heaps.

Ah, all the four. I thought number four. Okay.

They're called the four name heaps because they are not physical. Okay, sure. Thank you.

Which means that spelling here might have been BG, I think. Maybe word can look that up. I suspect this is BG.

Yeah, with a G again, that means the main letter, you know. Yeah, I don't think it would be G. Yeah, I think you're right.

Okay, who's going to read this next one, Sugeng? Please continue. BAM SA KYANG PHAG PA'O NUS TOB PA DANG Thank you.

By the way, I have to tell you guys one thing. Pia is working really hard to help the Mixed Nuts with the Good Night Book Club. She has signed up many, many people from Europe into the Good Night Book Club, and that has been a big source of support for the Mixed Nuts because we lost some support recently.

And she's really helped a lot to recover that support, and I have to thank her a lot. I'm very grateful for her. By the way, when you sign up for that Good Night Book Club, what you do if it's voluntary, but you can sign up for a monthly donation to the Mixed Nuts.

And we had an idea. Me and Lindsay had an idea, okay? It's like this.

Geshe-la has been working on a different book for, I think, yeah, 11 years. I've been working on a huge book by Tsongkhapa, and it's his greatest book on emptiness. And it will be almost 2,000 pages.

And I'm halfway through. After 11 years, I'm halfway through. And people were bothering me and asking me why I didn't finish their translation.

So I finished Seiji's, and we finished Sugeng's, and we finished Nick's. And then I said, I need to take a break, because I need a six-month break to work on my own translation. And so I decided to do that, and I will do that until November.

And I will finish that book in November, unless I go somewhere else. So why I'm mentioning it, every morning I work on that. Because I'm in the Good Night Book Club, I can wake up right on six o'clock.

I wake up at 5.59, and I turn the alarm off, and then I work hard for five hours, six hours. I work hard on that book for six hours. I can finish about four pages per day.

And then I was sending it to people who were irritated at me, like Seiji, because I wasn't doing my other work. And to make them happy, I will send them a quotation from what I translated today. And so I go through the four or five pages that I finished, and I pick out the sexiest quotation.

And they really are sexy. They're amazing emptiness quotations. So I had a meeting with Lindsay, and she said, why don't we have a platinum Good Night Book Club sponsor level?

And if you donate a little bit more every month to the Mixed Nuts, you get a daily email from Grandpa. Every day, whether you want it or not, you will get an email from Geshe-la, which is today's fresh youtiao off of the oven from Tsongkapa's church. And they are amazing.

They are amazing. So you get a personal email from Grandpa every day. With the latest fresh translation from the greatest book on emptiness.

And then you have to pay a little bit extra to the Good Night Book Club. Do you want to say anything more about it, Lindsay? Are you in the mood?

Yeah, I'm here.

[Speaker 2]
I'll put links in the chat, and then Juan and I, during Peace Tree World News today, we'll actually go through how people can sign up for it.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, thank you. And by the way, she's working really hard on it. She has a full-time, very technical job online, 25 hours a day.

And she is donating her time so far. If we can get more money, we'd like to pay her. But she's working really, really well.

And she's being very successful in making up the donations. We lost some donations. We had one big sponsor who cannot continue.

So we're making it up. And I'm sort of amazed that we are doing it. We're carrying it ourselves.

So it's really, I'm amazed. And I'm very grateful to Lindsay and everybody. Okay, so we'll hear more about that in the Peace Tree World News coming up.

Who's going to read next, Sugeng? Geshe-la, we have not discussed the previous...

[Speaker 3]
Oh, sorry.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, what kind of person can do this meditation called no conception and not no conception? And it can only be attained by... An Arya?

Only an Arya can do it. The real one, only an Arya can do it. Now, if that means an Arya, I don't think it means an emptiness meditation in this case.

I think you just have to be a really amazing person to do this kind of meditation. Okay. All right.

Who's going to read next, again? Okay, Lindsay, please. Uh-oh, she put her foot in her mouth.

Okay. Yeah. So nyong gyur means...

You see, Sugeng, in this description, this Abhidharmaist is going through all of the typical categories of any particular meditation. And he said, here's the level that you do it on. Here's the karmic ripening that you're going to get.

Here's the kind of person who can do it, typically. And then nyong gyur means what's going to nyong. Experience.

Yeah, like what kind of future karmic result does it bring you to do this kind of meditation with no conception and not no conception? What's the possibilities as far as the karma? Where's it going to throw you in your next life?

And he says, well, if you want me to talk about that, there's three different categories here. One is nyong gyur, karmic ripening experience. Gen ne.

What's that mean, Sugeng? Yeah, after your rebirth. After rebirth.

In your next life, okay? In your next life. By the way, when you're discussing the ripening of karmic seeds, you always discuss it in these three categories.

Number one, what's going to happen to you in the very next life? Secondly, what's going to happen to you... A few lives later.

Yeah, to and onwards. Second life and onwards, okay? So some karmic ripening is going to be immediate in your next life.

And then there's going to be echoes of the karma for many lives, okay? And that's the second category here. It's called, in the text, it's called experienced in another number, in another lifetime.

It means second lifetime and on, okay? It's like an echo effect, okay? And then there's a third possibility, which is ma ngenpa, Sugeng.

Yeah, there's certain ripening of this meditation that we cannot predict what's going to happen to you in the future life, okay? All right, so then he actually, Sugeng, he gives examples of each of the three. Oh, that's cool.

Which is very nice. Yeah, and so I love this section. And I think you should put this section in your footnote or something.

Yes, beautiful. So what was the first option, Sugeng? Gengne Nyongyur, what was the first option?

The next life? Yeah, what happens to you in the very next life. And who's going to read that option, Sugeng?

Chloe, please. Oh, Chloe's getting good, by the way, I think. She is good.

Hey, Sugeng. Yes. I also had a new, what do you call it?

A new bus boy. Bus boy means the person who cleans the table at the restaurant.

[Speaker 3]
Bus girl.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, look, we had 4th of July. It's a big holiday in America. So we had, we called in two temporary bus boys.

They just cleaned the table, okay? Like they're the lowest level in the restaurant, okay? Okay.

Who is that? That's Chloe, and the other guy was kind of stupid. We fired him after one day.

Okay. That was so fun. Dream comes true.

Take away 30 days. Yeah, it's fun. My Thai-Mandarin teacher used to say, it's fun until you have to make a living at it.

Okay. Go ahead, Sugeng. Who's going to read?

Oh, Chloe. Yeah. Okay.

Gopi Nyamjuk Sugeng. The cessation meditation. Yeah, they achieved it.

Yeah, now I got a word for, I got a word for word. I got a question for word. This is a tough question.

I think any word can do it. Okay. This looks like a mistake in composition.

It looks like it should say, Okay. The one who wants to achieve, right? That's the normal structure.

There's something wrong. It should be, but there's something deeper going on here. For two dollars!

Uh, I mean, they desire to achieve, but you're saying it's not that, right, Ken? Right, because this is not R. Oh.

Desired which? Yeah. Say again?

Desire which achieves, or the desire that achieves. Uh, read Dukkham, you guys. Oh, oh, yeah.

Desire realm. Desire realm.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
An Arya in the desire realm, who's trying to achieve this meditation. If they, If they don't drop out of it, if they can keep it going during their desire realm career, then they will definitely, khyewa into tse tse. Born into the highest level of samsara.

Yeah, and that's the very next birth. So that's the first possibility, okay? You go from desire realm to highest level of the formless realm as a rebirth.

Not, not mentally. Not inside your head, but as an actual rebirth into the, we call resulting meditation realm. Okay, now, what was the second possibilities again?

The second or after. Yeah, from second life onwards. Who's going to read that one?

It's a little bit longer. I think, Oh, again. Yeah.

Is this some of the explanation behind non-returners and such? Yeah, yeah, it is. Exactly, yeah.

Okay, again, go. Who's going to read? du che kye tse tser kye war gyurway tongpoy nyung juk de tang Nice reading.

Okay. Second possibility, second lifetime. They would have achieved, they were in the dupa.

In the desire realm. By the way, they didn't achieve the desire realm, because that's not a big achievement. They achieved this meditation in the desire realm.

dupa tobne And then they nyampa again. Before they reached the end of their life, they lost this ability to meditate like this. Like in their lifetime, they learned it, and then they didn't practice, and they dropped.

They forgot how to do it. Okay. So what happens to those guys karmically?

Oh, they get born into the sukham. Oh, the form realm. In the next life, okay?

And then they, ngun du che, they bring it about again. Bring what about? The meditation again?

Yeah, the causal meditation. Yeah, causal meditation. They bring about the peak of samsara state of mind, not the place.

They practice more. They get reborn. Because it's a cool meditation, and they did it a lot during their life, but they forgot how to do it by the time they were dead, they only get to go to the form realm.

But in the form realm, they will do it again. And then they will sitheke. Or born in the highest peak of existence.

Yeah, and in a way, they go back to the first choice here. You see what I mean? So they had one rebirth.

In that rebirth, they went back to the first choice. And in that next rebirth, they went to the formless realm. Okay?

Cool. Yeah, following Bort's question, so is this the definition of the once-returner kind of thing? It could be related to that, I think, yeah.

But mainly, there's a list of negative emotions you have to give up to be a once-returner. So I don't think it's exactly corresponding. Okay, what's the third one?

Once again, who's going to read that one? Since Chloe has been reading, can you please continue? All right, let me get three.

Nice reading, yeah. Good reading. You're really picking it up.

You got to keep going, okay? And you should clean tables. That's the best way to get this language thing.

All right, just kidding. Ah, you're too busy. DUS PA'I BRTEN LA What's that mean, Sugeng?

DUS PA'I BRTEN LA Based on being in the desire realm. Yeah, this BRTEN LA means body and mind, okay? In a body and mind, in the desire realm, they attain Gopay Nyomchuk.

The substantial meditation? Yeah. And then, I don't care whether they nyamba or they don't nyamba.

Whether they practice or don't practice. Use it or not.

[Speaker 3]
It's a generator.

[Speaker 1]
Now, look here. In the first item here, they did not degenerate from that meditation and they went straight to the formless realm. In the second item, they did degenerate from that meditation before they died.

And because of that, they only got to go to the form realm. Now, in the third possibility, he says, I don't care whether they degenerated or they didn't degenerate from the meditation. It doesn't matter.

Because, drachamba. Oh. They became an enemy destroyer.

Yeah, they achieved enemy destroyer, so everything's off. They can't go anywhere in samsara. You see what I mean?

They can't go to the formless realm. They can't go to the form realm. None of the first two possibilities applies to them, because during the exercise of this meditation, they got to arhat.

So, they're not going to go anywhere in samsara. They're going to go beyond samsara. Okay, so, du su khan rung tu drachamba topa ngepa gyu Whether they're in the desire realm, or whether they're in the form realm, they're going to achieve...

Whether they go to the form... Whether they stay in the form realm, or whether they move to the form... Sorry.

Whether they stay in the desire realm, or they go to the form realm, they're going to attain arhat. And then it's all... They don't have any place in samsara.

They're not in the nine levels. They broke out of the nine levels. Think of the nine levels as a dim sung pot.

And they got out of the pot completely. Who's going to read the next ones? By the way, that's a nice little vacation for you guys to a text which is only 200 years old.

You can understand it, and I can understand it. Now, unfortunately, we're going to go back another 2,000 years, and it gets weird again. We're back to Vasubandhu.

Who's going to read... We got one more minute again. Then you're going to leave this conversation about how the heck you're going to use this in your real life.

Okay. I think you should go into this meditation just when your wife starts yelling at you. Right, Nick?

Okay. Roksana, please. Nice.

Yeah, you're amazing. So you achieve a state with your body where you have stopped what, Sugeng? Dushi and so on.

The discrimination and the feeling. Yeah, so in a way, you have gone beyond staying in a certain place. This is supposed to be a quotation.

I couldn't find it. A lot of the things that Vasubandhu is quoting were lost after his lifetime. Okay, we're going to stop there.

Sugeng is going to lead a conversation. A Buddha-Buddha conversation. Let me see.

Sugeng. Yes? You got three more short lines, and then you have one of these poems which marks changing the subject in a big way.

Okay. When the author puts a little poem in there, it's an announcement that we are going on to a cool new subject. Can you translate the next three lines and the poem?

Okay, sure. All right. Thank you, Geshe-la.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Geshe-la.

You're welcome. Okay. Let's start the discussion.

Anybody has any ideas to talk about? Oh, I saw Ngui. Ngui has been waiting for us like more than 10 hours yesterday in Jakarta.

Who was that? Ngui. Oh, my God.

Ngui is with us, and she was like... You just go to a coffee shop and drink coffee for 10 hours. That's all.

Yeah. All serious, like spent 88 hours just to travel from Mexico to Yogyakarta. By the way, I sat in the Yogyakarta airport for eight hours.

It's okay. There's a little Dunkin' Donuts there, I think. It's a new airport, Geshe-la.

It's more comfortable now. Yeah, but all the fun... I think we had a big meeting.

Shinten was the boss in the KFC or something. We didn't eat the food, but we... That is Surabaya.

Oh, Surabaya. Okay, okay. And then Bob Cirino is still stranded in Jakarta.

Oh, no, he's on the plane now. He's arriving soon. He got...

He lost his luggage in Qatar, and then... Anyway. Come on, yoga people just need a pair of shorts.

I'm getting out of here. Yeah, he has his backpack and yoga mat, and I think that's... Anyway.

All right. So, yeah, Tim, please. The thing that came up for me while we were talking about the different types of meditation and where you go, I think this morning I was teaching some Shantideva and all about what happens when you're...

The goals of meditation and then how to bring compassion into the meditation as well. And then what happens when you get stuck, right? When you get stuck in some wellness and don't know how to get out of it or even to recognize that you're there.

And so it's not a big comment, but I think there's a... I keep hearing these warnings of if you do this, if you go too far into this, you could have a...

[Speaker 3]
You could end up hurting yourself long term or not being able to reach the goals. And I keep hearing that message in lots of different ways. And so for me, it's more about, okay, so look at your meditation.

What is the quality of the meditation? And are you in subtle dullness thinking you're actually doing something valuable?

[Speaker 1]
Okay, thank you. Yeah, I think this is a very good warning, a very good message to remind all of us to focus on the real meditation. When I was in the university, I went into this meditation club and all we want to achieve was to go into jhana and nobody...

Well, I mean, we were like very... It was like the blind leading the blind, you know? And we were like comparing notes every day.

Hey, Tim, where were you today? Where did you go? What did you achieve today?

And then people was like, wow, you are... I envy you, Tim. Wow, you went so far.

I wish I could do that, you know? I think it's a good start. I think it's a good start though, you know?

I think that got you here. That got you here, I think. Yeah, I think I was...

And that really made me practice every day. But like what Tim said, a lot of time I was like in a subtle dullness, suddenly one hour passed by and oh, did I even meditate? I didn't know that that was subtle dullness until now then.

Oh, that was actually subtle dullness. I thought I was so good that I didn't feel anything and one hour passed by. Couldn't believe it.

Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Tim. Anybody else has any comments?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, I have one. I mean, it's sort of what Tim just said is that there's like this theme going on now. Like back in the day, like in the 90s, there was like this big emphasis on meditating for an hour and a half every day.

Geshe-la was pretty hardcore about it. The line was pretty hard. There was no like, oh, I'm not meditating today.

You had to. It was like brushing your teeth. And so the last couple months, it seems like we're circling back to going to sleep with the Good Night Book Club and sleeping well and getting up and meditating on the material that you read the night before and getting back to like a solid meditation practice.

And then just this, we're preparing for what happens in meditation, what happens in our next life and where can we get? And so obviously the theme that's ringing true is just doing all these practices, like putting them into practice like immediately, starting with sleeping well, getting up and meditating every day. Kind of what Tim just said is like bringing some sort of, how do you, bringing compassion into your meditation and then, yeah, it's just, it's really beautiful to see this sort of like theme that's happening in all the programs, really, everywhere we go right now.

And this really big push to sort of get back to it again. So, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, thank you for sharing, Rob. Yeah, talking about this, I want to add some more advertisement to the Good Night Book Club. If you see on this ring, this is Aura Ring.

So it is actually helping to monitor the, not only my activity, but also my sleep pattern. So I notice if I get myself detached from electronics at night, my sleep, so the measure of a good sleep is that your resting heart rate should fall, should fall down, should go to the lowest level. And that is a measure of a good sleep.

So if I get detached myself from electronics, it will fall down very quickly. But if I didn't get detached timely, meaning that I was still doing my electronics, my phone, whatever, and I fall asleep, it will only fall down, I mean, the lowest point is actually near the morning, near the morning. So that is showing that I didn't have good sleep.

I mean, if we are just saying, you know, people, oh yeah, because we are promoting the club, so you say you have to do that. But now I have this ring and I can really see the curve. So sometimes I was just like, okay, let me try.

I want to work until just before I sleep and see if I, because I was so tired, it will fall down, but it did not. So I think Good Night Book Club, like Geshe Michael told me last year in December, he said, this is a secret weapon. I said, okay, let's use the secret weapon.

So kind of interesting. Thank you, thank you, Rob. Thank you, Geshe-la.

[Speaker 3]
So what tier of Mixed Nuts Good Night Book Club membership gets you a ring?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, wait, don't do that later. Don't jump the gun. That's a good idea.

It is a good idea. Yeah, I don't know. Lindsey, we need to work this out.

Maybe you want to add another $100 a month? Let's talk about it. Don't scare people, don't scare people.

Just joking, just joking. Okay, so anybody else? This is back to the topic, not about the ring.

[Speaker 3]
It's nice advice. I really like what everyone's saying. I think that there's a scary idea that goes around that somehow there are no, like there are no spiritual boo-boos or you're not allowed to talk about spiritual boo-boos or you can't, it's very sensitive because you don't want to say anything mean about someone else's path and I think that is important.

[Speaker 1]
But it's a terrible story, but I heard this terrible story about some guy who was some faith healer and he told some woman who was pregnant to hammer a nail in her head and she would have a boy. Oh no.

[Speaker 3]
Which is, it's a terrible thing, okay, but I think it's a useful example that we can all agree that there is such a thing as a wrong spiritual path. At least we can set that as a baseline. There is such a thing as bad advice for your personal, meditative, spiritual development.

And then we can dispense with the idea that all advice is equal. And now we can try to find what is better advice and we have incredible tools. And we don't know.

I don't know what is good advice. I'm not smart enough to know the answer.

[Speaker 2]
And so fortunately there are thousands of years of advices and teachers who have been touched by teachers who have been touched by teachers who are in this thousands of years of advice and then it doesn't feel so hopeless. It doesn't feel so dark.

[Speaker 3]
We have some chance to get good advice. I find it very heartening to know that people are having these conversations and not afraid to have honest conversations about the difference between good meditation and being sleepy, spaced out. I think it's really beautiful.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, thank you, Ben. Yeah, that reminded me. I was on the plane with JB and Connie and Cynthia and Yngwie yesterday.

And I told them that without all this wisdom, without the seed system, life would be very scary, you know?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
We were talking about some problems in the world nowadays about war, about whatever, about nonsense. And I told him that, yeah, if I don't have this seed system, if I don't have access to all this wisdom, I would be living in fear all the time. I would be very worried about my future.

I will not know how I can achieve what I want to achieve in life just based on my intellectual, just based on what I'm seeing. And I used to rely a lot on luck. I just feel that all my life, all this so far has been based on luck.

And I'm always be worrying, when will my luck run out? What will happen to me if my luck run out, you know? So I was so worried.

But the moment I got into the system, the moment I learned about the seeds, and then now I get access to all this amazing wisdom through the Mixed Nuts. And thanks a lot, Grandpa Geshe-la. It's so beautiful.

I mean, life has hopes. Guys, life has hopes. You can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

And it's so beautiful. As long as I know, if I keep on planting all the good seeds, learning all this wisdom, I can... And the beautiful thing is that JV and Connie told me, if you really learn and practice all this well, it's possible to get it in one lifetime.

I said, wow, this is really mind-blowing. I'm so happy. I feel I'm so fortunate.

I don't know where I got all these good seeds. I must have done tons of good things in the past to deserve all this. Thank you.

I'm so blessed. Oh, gosh. I'm so happy.

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Geshe-la.

Thank you, everyone. Thank you, my friends here, my brothers and sisters. Thanks, Joe.

Yeah, thank you, Joe. Where's Joe here? Joe Karma.

I know, I'm joking. Where are all these of you? There's an old picture of Sugeng in Buddha Buddha.

Oh. When he was young. Oh, okay.

Can I see it again, Geshe-la? Yeah, hang on. Wow, that was like nine years ago or something, huh?

2017. Oh, wow. I see no difference.

Yeah, totally. He looks so much younger. He's got more hair, I think.

He grew a tie. Yeah. It still looks old, Buddha Buddha.

Buddha Buddha was still old, yeah, then. Still old, yeah. Thank you.

Sugeng, you got time for one more, I think. One more, sure. So anybody else has any more thing to say?

And, yeah. Oh, okay, just past 15. I'm sorry.

Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, there's no time. We can hand it to Hasso.

Yeah, thank you.

[Speaker 2]
Hello, Sugeng.

[Speaker 1]
Uh-oh, here's the boss.

[Speaker 2]
Hello, Geshe-la.

[Speaker 1]
Hi, Big Boss, where are you?

[Speaker 2]
Flagstaff.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, far away.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, I saw Rob Haggerty came to visit town today. Wow. He told me the stories about Phoenix.

And also the very exciting story about you coming back to, what's the name? Global Services. Yay.

That's wonderful news and important news. We're excited to see where this global services thing is.

[Speaker 1]
Hey, Hasso, I say that's the only place where they treat me like a teacher.

[Speaker 2]
I hear that. We have to do something about it.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, okay.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, so congratulations about that. Hopefully it's a wonderful service. And we also want to let everyone know that people are getting ready to attend the Mexico retreat.

Yay. So it's going to be nice. You're going to be using your global services, hopefully, to travel to Mexico.

[Speaker 1]
Yay.

[Speaker 2]
You're going to be there soon. I'm also getting ready with more details to see when I get there, but it's exciting. I've been talking lately with Paulina, Pachi, Rob, Tim, other people.

They are all excited. Everything is almost, almost ready. So if you haven't signed up, you still can do it.

If you can come live, I think it's going to be wonderful. If you cannot, do it online. After that, just to remind you a little bit of other teachings that are going to happen this year.

In Diamond Mountain, they're going to have a summit for reforestation happening on September from the 2nd to the 7th. And yeah, after that in October, at the beginning of October, it's going to be a pre-retreat, like a week for preparations before Geshe Michael teaches in Diamond Mountain. So you can do like 6 to 11, then stay a little longer for the actual retreat and teachings.

This is also an actual retreat and teachings, but this is designed to be a preparation for the next one, for next picture, which is the retreat with Geshe Michael 11 to the 20th. And just to remind you that if you happen to be in Europe, in October also, there is going to be a retreat by David Anzarani. Just to remind you, it's happening.

It's going to be about the Heart Sutra. I hear wonderful things about Barcelona. Tim is about to go to Barcelona.

He can tell us later how beautiful or fun it is. And maybe that encourages people to at some point go there. And the year, if you have no plans yet, is going to end up the World View year with Geshe Michael going to Kyoto in December.

So you still have time to prepare the trip if you want to go. I've been there two times now and it's wonderful. Really, Japan and Kyoto are a beautiful, beautiful place.

Something is growing there, the community, the atmosphere. I think it's going to be very, very cool. So this is a good time to check it out and you can make plans ahead of time.

Now, because we have mentioned... No, before that, before that, not yet the picture. We want to introduce those pictures for the next interview.

Lindsay already mentioned it. Geshe-la also introduced to this project. And there is like a very new initiative to get people involved with this Good Night Reading Club in a new way.

It's a deeper way to be involved for this conversation. I would like to invite Lindsay somewhere online. She should be around.

I'm here. Of course, if you want to participate and add something, feel free to jump anytime.

[Speaker 1]
Let's let her do the work.

[Speaker 2]
Hello, Lindsay. Welcome.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you.

[Speaker 2]
To another exciting Xuanzang Tower Picture World News segment. So you were telling me, Lindsay, I had a chance to talk to Lindsay about this yesterday. And I think it's a very, very cool project.

But don't let me be the one who presented. Maybe tell us what are you cooking now? How did this came to be?

Whose idea was it? Well, it was, I think, originally from Geshe-la.

[Speaker 1]
And it evolved out of he has been translating this beautiful, beautiful book for a number of years and started to send an email update every single morning. He has a very planned out schedule for his day. So he's, you know, in the morning is kind of his focus time spent translating.

And so after he finishes that each day, he has an update of this book. And so it's literally like a Word document with a few, you know, that day's progress in it. And we just thought that people might like to read it.

You know, it's very, very beautiful. And it's kind of, you know, this really amazing opportunity to follow along with this translation effort in real time. Like it's literally daily update.

And, you know, these books are so incredible, like even a few pages progress. It's like it blows your mind every day.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, I remember a few years ago, I had a chance to go through some of these translation. You know, the progress was being made. And it's really one of the books that has impacted me the most.

It's wonderful, wonderful content in those days. I think Adam was involved in creating a website with some access to it. It was wonderful.

And I'm so excited that it's coming back, this opportunity to be tasting every morning a little bit. You show me some example of what people can get. And I read it today.

It's wonderful, beautiful. I can see how valuable it is. I can see how much I don't understand about it.

But at the same time, how much it has to offer. It's like a treasure, a hidden treasure ready to be, you know, discovered. It's wonderful.

So maybe it's a good time to show people this example you showed me.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, let's show them one of the emails. And so this is what, do you have it to show?

[Speaker 2]
Yes, we have the next picture, please. Is the one that I say not yet.

[Speaker 1]
All right. Yeah. And I put this in the chat a little bit earlier before.

But this is what it's going to look like.

[Speaker 2]
You know, each day there's a little note from Geshe-la.

[Speaker 1]
And he's often pulling a quote from that day of what was just translated. And then the full version of the translation up until now is attached at the bottom. And that's what that Word document is down there.

[Speaker 2]
Will you be happy, Lindsay, to read us one or two paragraphs?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. So this is Jetsun Kappa.

Mistaking a rope as a snake due to the proximity of the rope is not something that ever occurs in a location where there is no rope. And a perceptual error founded in a water pitcher or the like is not something that we would ever arise in the middle of the sky where there are no elements of earth or the like. The case here is just the same.

[Speaker 2]
That is, if there are no outer objects, then what would be the cause behind a perception which mistakenly took blue or the like as existing on the outside?

[Speaker 1]
How could the circumstances that allowed the error be present? And so this is, you know, just a small example of what these are like. But it's just really cool.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, it is. I see how later it seems that Jetsun Kappa is comparing the two systems, the middle way with the mind only, and what are like some differences between them, but also coming up to certain conclusions. I think this is going to be wonderful if people are excited about this kind of content to have access to it.

So now the next question it will be, let's say I'm interested. How should I proceed?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah. So can we go to the next picture? And I'll also go ahead and put the links in the chat for people.

Yeah, great. So, yes. So the main way to do this is to this big QR code here on the screen will take you to a page where you can increase your subscription amount.

And so this is an add on. So it's for people who are already subscribers to the book club. We're asking people to put in another $22 USD per month.

And then we'll start sending you this daily email update. So, and we do ask that people be in the $30 tier or above to to add this onto their subscription. And so what what it will do is if you're at the $30 tier, for example, it will be $52 total.

And that's actually the year Geshe-la was born. And that's that's kind of the thinking behind that. And do keep in mind that there's different tiers for the book club, right?

So the $30 tier is two books a year.

[Speaker 2]
But then there's additional tiers, right? So depending on the region, the next tier is at $65 or $75. $65 in the Americas and in Europe and $75 in Asia.

And so if you want to do a little bit more, then you can start getting more books a year.

[Speaker 1]
I believe it's four at that level. So that's kind of up to up to people. But yeah.

[Speaker 2]
I have an idea, Lindsay. OK, you haven't finished.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, I just one more thing is we do really ask people to follow the rules of your country. You know, we we are not able to distribute DCC books in all countries. And that does apply to this email update as well.

So we do ask that you follow the rules for your country. But I do want to it's my understanding that this is OK in Vietnam specifically. So I did reach out about that.

So, you know, yeah. But, yeah, I want to go for it.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. No, I was thinking this because 100 percent. Sure.

I want to do it. Right. Why don't we do it right here, right now?

And see the process, how it's done, just in case they want to do it as well. And it's very, very clear.

[Speaker 1]
Perfect. Cool. So I'll put the link in the chat for you.

And then we can just go through it together. Do you want me to update mine or do you want to update yours today?

[Speaker 2]
I'll update mine because I really do want to get these emails, you know, because I really genuinely want them. So, yeah, I'm going to share my screen. Let's do it.

I have the link. So it's here. I already copy pasted from the chat.

And you can guide me. Oh, no. OK.

[Speaker 1]
You do have to sign in. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
I don't know if I remember my password, but if you don't, I can do mine.

[Speaker 1]
And then you can do yours on Saturday.

[Speaker 2]
It may be. It may be. I know.

I don't know. I'm going to have to find my password. I thought the password was saved, but no.

[Speaker 1]
It's OK.

[Speaker 2]
We're going to have to do yours.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, that's fine.

[Speaker 2]
Yours go. I have my password, but it will take time to go and look. Where is it?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Don't worry about it. OK, so it'll look like this.

And then you'll just need to sign in. And then all you do is at the top here, it's going to show you your subscription. So I'm giving thirty dollars a month and I can go over here and just click it.

And then I can go ahead, increase that to fifty two. And then click update and then it's done. That's it.

That's it.

[Speaker 2]
OK. And then you say the program is going to let you know who did the upgrade. And automatically somehow you guys as a team going to make sure they are in the mailing list.

If they sign up today, are they going to get an email? When is going to be the next new email?

[Speaker 1]
Tomorrow, assuming Gushless sends it. So we'll do the next one, Gushless sends. It's pretty much every day.

[Speaker 2]
No pressure. OK, thank you. Thank you so much.

So just to summarize, whatever tier they are, the package, let's say above 30, $22 more and you get access to this wonderful, wonderful daily progress on illumination of the true thought.

[Speaker 1]
That is exactly right, Juan.

[Speaker 2]
Wonderful. Wonderful. Thank you so much.

And I just will say to everyone, if you have the chance, if you can do it, I think it's a very amazing, worth it thing to do, because number one, you're going to be supporting this project, which is wonderful. It's bringing wisdom to this world, to all of us. It's making our lives better.

And also at the same time, you're going to get direct access with these wonderful, wonderful books. So you are supporting a project. You're learning new things.

So, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Lindsay, there's a question. I'm sorry. There's a question from Tim in the chat.

I want to hear the answer. Yes. So that's a really good question.

So no, actually. So it's this is so, for example, say you're already at the like giving $150 a month or $75 a month. We are still asking that people do an additional 22.

So. So, yeah. Yeah.

So it's not nobody's automatically in this. Yeah. Mm hmm.

Mm hmm.

[Speaker 2]
Very well. OK, we'll be talking to you soon to report the numbers of people who are signing in. And also you can specifically mention the ones who didn't sign up yet.

[Speaker 1]
Just kidding.

[Speaker 2]
Just kidding. Just kidding. But yeah, thank you very much.

And let's go to our next class with Dr. Ward and get your Michael Roach. See you next time.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you. A word. Where's the homework?

[Speaker 2]
Very welcome.