Сугэн Ши — Книга 2: Колесо жизни (первый принцип и подразделения зависимости), занятие 66

[Speaker 1]
Good morning, good evening, good afternoon, good morrow. Welcome, everybody, to another exciting installment of Xuanzang's Tower. We have, I think, a fun day-to-day planned with Sugeng.

Sugeng, are you standing by nearby? I'm sitting down. Perfect.

Sitting down, standing by. You're sitting by. I'm standing down, standing by, sitting by, too.

Perfect. Good. Let's not let the world pass us by as we sit by.

This is a nice, yeah, I like your tie and jacket. It's a good look. Thank you.

Yeah, I'm excited. I'm very excited. We're gonna have to work together as mixed nuts a bit here and lean on our friends in the audience.

Your book is hard, and Geshe Michael got his hands full today. Nick got pulled away into the meeting that Geshe Michael had his hands full with today, and so I'm intimidated by your book. You're gonna have to help us.

I'm gonna do my best to participate, but I'm very happy to spend the time with you and take the challenge. You are intimidating. I am terrified.

Oh, well, great. It's okay. Guys, we're gonna have fun.

Yes, I'm certain. Thank you, Paula. I agree.

We're performing in front of friends, and so I'm concerned, and it's a relief for people to know how we actually are, rather than to have delusions about us, and then we needn't pretend we're anything other than we are. What a relief. I give it to you, Dr. Sugeng, and I'm standing by, and I'll do my best to play along. All right. I don't know what I can do without all of you around, so let's continue. You can hear me okay?

Quite well. Quite well. All right.

So let's go to the homework. We went through a little bit previously, and I think these are some of the questions that I managed to come up with. So one of the intentions to go into the highest level of the formless realm is to stop one's capacity for discrimination and feeling.

Why is this not enough? Why is this intention not enough? It doesn't get you out of sansara.

It's not out of renunciation. Thank you, Howard Smith. Great.

How will an aria within the desire realm get reborn in the highest level of sansara as a result?

[Speaker 3]
Karma.

[Speaker 1]
I think it's seeds.

[Speaker 3]
I'm not wrong.

[Speaker 1]
Peiling is ready. What have you got, Peiling? Save us.

Because reborn in the desire realm. Reborn in the desire realm because heaven renounced. Okay.

Good try, Peiling. I mean, it's usually a result of their meditation practice. Is it different in this case again?

It is slightly. And that's the reason why I pulled this out. In fact, there is a follow-up question related, but let's not get bothered by that.

Laura mentioned it's meditating in shamatha, but not with high objects. That is not really what we discussed previously.

[Speaker 2]
Because we don't know what is the meaning of renunciation.

[Speaker 1]
No, that was the previous question.

[Speaker 3]
Oh, because they are in their last level of bodhisattva stream, one's returner, and they have one last thing to do, which is in the formless realm.

[Speaker 1]
No, not really. They're wondering about they don't leave that highest level of meditation, which is the cause of being reborn in the highest level. Precisely, without dropping out, keep it going.

So when they manage to reach the highest level of formless realm causal meditation, I think the keyword is without dropping. So what happens if they drop out? Logically thinking, if they drop out, that means they will not get reborn there.

The highest level of samsara as a result. Well, if they drop out, they will not go there yet, but it will be indeterminate. It is not determined when they will go back.

The moment they get back into that meditation, then that will go back to that level. So that is the second possibility. Now the third possibility is, when does it not matter whether an area degenerates or does not degenerate in their highest level of formless realm causal meditation?

[Speaker 3]
When they're a non-returner?

[Speaker 1]
His smile told you you're wrong without him having to say it.

[Speaker 2]
It doesn't matter whether returner or non-returner, right? Level of arhat.

[Speaker 1]
Yes, that's the answer. It does not matter at all. When they achieve the end of ministry level, well, they are in the desire.

It does not matter. It does not matter. Wendy, yeah, thank you.

Thank you for playing along. Kayang? What is kayang?

[Speaker 3]
Anything at all.

[Speaker 1]
Anything at all. Yeah, that's right. Anything at all.

Who was that? Oscar. Oscar, yeah.

Oscar Leone.

[Speaker 3]
Actualized Manifest.

[Speaker 1]
Say again. Go ahead. To focus your thoughts.

To focus your thoughts. Yeah, thank you. To collect your thoughts consciously or to focus your thoughts.

And Lesurungwa. Well, it's got a couple of meanings. Good for work.

Yeah, good for work, literally, but it's also the name of a retreat. Yes, good for meditation. Yeah, thank you.

All right. So, these are the definitions.

[Speaker 2]
All right.

[Speaker 1]
I think that if it's Sam Lesurungwa, then it would be fit for meditation. Yeah. I see.

All right. It has to be this way, right? Yeah, that seems right.

Yeah. Otherwise, just Lesurungwa by itself means fit or is the expanded term, Lerung, meaning a retreat. So, we should be the way.

Is that right? Oh. So, if you want to.

Just good for work, yeah. Yeah, good for work would be Lesurungwa. Yeah, take the meditation one out of there.

Oh, okay. Sorry. Yeah.

Yeah, thank you. All right. And I think you should say or a retreat in there because it's good luck.

Or? There you go.

[Speaker 2]
On the top one.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, on the top one. It is the name of a retreat. Yeah, it's called the Lerung, which is literally, it's just short for Lesurungwa.

So, what should we do? Proper English? A retreat.

A retreat. Yeah. A deep retreat.

A retreat. Okay. Yeah.

A special retreat or whatever.

[Speaker 2]
All right.

[Speaker 1]
It is. Okay. Students attempt the translation.

Oops. Okay. Ducak dangdrelwa leyang dakpan depani mayinte.

Okay. So, we are on the part where we were talking about the stopping the discrimination and feeling. That's why we have the three experiences that we discussed just now in the homework.

We talk about karmic ripening immediately in the very next life, which is when you get into the meditation and not dropping out of it. And then karmic ripening in another lifetimes, meaning that if you drop out of that meditation and come back, and then the third one is that... No, sorry.

The second one is... Oh yeah, that's right. The second one is that when you drop out of it, but you come back and then you will be reborn in the highest level of nirvana.

And the third one is talking about whether they degenerate or don't degenerate. It does not matter because they achieve the enemy destroyer level. And then we continue the discussion, right?

And this is the continuation. Maybe I should just show you my text. Yeah, these were the three.

The three what's again, say again, the three. Yeah, I will change my sharing. Okay.

So that we all can read the text together. So, we were... Excuse me.

Yeah. If you could make the text a little bigger, people are asking. Okay.

Thank you. Yeah. Okay.

Let's review the discussion. So Geshe Michael added this text as intended as a footnote. And basically, these are some of the conclusions that we had from the text.

Clarification that cessation meditation is a virtue by intention going into it. And a clarification that the motivation for going into it was to stop one's capacity for discrimination and feeling, but not out of renunciation. First is a virtue.

Second, the motivation is not out of renunciation. And clarification that the state of mind here is referred to as Keche. And it is not connected to, there is no connection to the 12 links.

Okay. I think this was a wordsmith questions last month. And then it makes the point that the ripening is only into the four named heaps without cross physical form in the formless realm.

So these are the texts that we went through last month. And I think, do you want to go through, or we just, we already had the notes, the conclusions up there, right? I'm sorry, Sugeng, the last one makes the point that, let's see, the clarification that the state of mind here, okay, that's fine.

The last one makes the point that the ripening is only into the four named heaps. Can you explain that a little bit more? I don't understand very well.

This is referring to the fourth link, which is the Nama Rupa, name and form. Name and form refers to the five heaps. The five heaps and form refers to the physical form and the name refers to the four other heaps, right?

The awareness, the feeling, the discrimination and the others. So I think Geshe Michael is saying that, so we can divide the five heaps into name and form. Four for the name and one for the form.

So I think this is what he refers to, since we are talking about formless realm. And when we say the ripening, we're talking about the ripening of this particular cessation meditation, which is not motivated by renunciation and which is referred to as Geshe. And it ripens, this meditation ripens then into these other four heaps, meaning it ripens into a certain experience of those four heaps.

Yeah, I think that because this is referring to the formless realm, the experience will not ripen. The experience will only, ripening will only happen into the four heaps rather than five. Okay.

Okay. Excellent. Okay.

So because this particular meditation called Geshe, this cessation meditation results in a formless realm experience, then we're just pointing out that it's a ripening of only the latter four heaps, since the first heap is physicality or the physical body or what is normally experienced in the form realm. Formless realm, right here. We are talking about it.

Right. Yes. Right.

Okay. Okay. That's great.

I am not so sure about this, but I can feel that you are thinking there might be some hints related to these last two sentences. So I'm not so sure. But do you think it's a good idea for us to go through again, the text and the translation so that we can understand it much better?

I would be shocked if it hurt us. You would be shocked with what? Yes.

I think it's a good idea. Okay. Sorry.

I missed your last part. No problem. Okay.

All right. Let me move this down. Okay.

That one. What is this day here? Do you have any idea?

Yes. That cessation meditation. On that cessation meditation.

Ngo-wa. It's essence. Ngo-wa, essence.

K'un-long-gi, the motivation. By motivation. The angering.

The essence of this meditation. Yeah. Like in terms of its motivation.

Terms of its motivation. Gi-wa-yin, it's virtuous. K'ang, do you translate as bad?

I preliminarily. Say it? Yeah, I think so.

K'ang-de-ni. But it. But it.

Okay. Okay. And then, Du-she-dang-chor-wa.

Du-she-dang-chor-wa, discrimination of feeling. Si-war-ne-pa, si-war-ne-pe. Si-war was peaceful, in the space of peacefulness.

Oh no, sorry, this is the sine. Okay. Sine, the single-pointed concentration.

Oh, right. Of course. Si-war-ne-pa, sine.

In a single-pointed concentration. Tun-bu, meaning. Yes.

The space. Oh, that's intention. That's the goal.

Artha, the purpose. The focus. Yes, I think order two or something like that.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
I know that too.

[Speaker 3]
Okay, in order two.

[Speaker 1]
I see. Nyom-pa-juk-pa-le. Nyom-pa-juk-pa, this is meditation?

Oh, well, I guess. Yeah, I don't know. We've got these two lays here, and so let's see.

Well, I don't know if like it's. Well, that is a phrase, I think, for meditative voice or something. Samadhi.

Nyom-pa-juk-pa. Samapati. Yeah, right.

Yeah, it's also single-pointed concentration, unfortunately. So it maybe has to be here twice, and I'm not sure what the second one is adding yet. But if we work backwards from there, nyom-pa-juk-pa, this is this samapati, like Utpala said, this balanced meditation, dundu focused on reaching shinae, single-pointed meditation.

Touche, answere, or? The description and feeling. Yeah.

Yeah. Right. On them.

I see. So could be this is together all the way. Yeah, the lay I'm uncomfortable about at the moment.

But yes, that is balanced meditation with the. Single-pointed meditation, balanced single-pointed concentration, right? Right, which aims towards single-pointed meditation on discrimination and feeling.

Yeah, I think what's maybe tripping us up is that after touche, dang-sor-wa, there's not something that links to shi-war-nepa. It is tripping. So what's going on there?

Not linked. Unless that's just called, you know, balanced meditation on feelings and discrimination. Yeah, exactly.

Because if I didn't, if shi-war-nepa didn't mean shinae, I would be tempted to say that the intention dundu was to stay in a place where those were at peace, right? Where you had pacified your touche and sor-wa, where you had eased or rested or made peaceful your discrimination and feeling. So I don't know, I'm struggling with that a little bit.

The jun-yao-lae, right? I mean, ne-par-jung-wa, you know, sometimes it's easier to go backwards a little, right? Mai-yin, it's not.

Yeah. A state of mind of ngen-jung, ngen-par-jung-wa, renunciation. Oh, there it is.

Okay, I see. Oh, so the lae is rather than. Rather than.

The lae is rather than. I see now. Yeah, yeah, it's rather than.

Yeah. It is, I believe it's this one, rather than. Yeah, the state of mind, sam-pa, of ne-par-jung-wa, renunciation, to get out of suffering, like of renunciation of suffering, you see, but the of here is lae, which is like, means like from, like to get out of dun-yao, right?

So no, it's the second lae. Yeah, from dun-yao, right? From dun-yao.

Yeah. And it's, there's a ma there, so it's mai-yin, it is not. It is not.

Yeah, right, yeah. Not, it is rather not out of the state of mind to get out of suffering. Yeah, I think cessation meditation is, right, by motivation, is good, is virtuous.

Yeah, as, you can say because, maybe as easily as as, but yeah, but as, or because. The purpose is to stay in a balanced meditation aimed towards single concentration. Yeah, I don't know, for your discrimination and feeling, I don't know about for, but something like that.

On? Yeah, right, your discrimination and, and feeling, and then I might say, instead of however or something, I, just to get the idea, rather than, you see, out of, yeah, rather than out of a state of mind of motivation to get out of suffering, I guess. Now, this bothers me a little.

I mean, Utpala, right, which in these two states seems like a more virtuous motivation, of wanting to single pointedly meditate on feeling and discrimination or renunciation. Yeah, right. So, renunciation here is basically to get out, right?

Yeah, you're right, yeah, to get out of suffering. Yeah, I think you could say that. Lele is like, to get out.

Also, yeah, or yeah, Jumla is sort of to get out. That's hard. Word, do you have any insight?

You're here, you're, you're hovering nearby, right? No, it's okay. Okay.

Yeah, anyone can.

[Speaker 3]
I think it's other way around. I checked the dictionary.

[Speaker 1]
There's a phrase, that means to put a temporary stop to your thoughts, to discrimination. So, can it mean the aim is to put a temporary stop to your and so on? I think that's, I want, I wanted to say that too, I think it's a, it's a very good option.

Put them to rest, to stay in a place where they're peaceful, sleeping. I think that's what the opinion is. Oh my god, you're here.

Great, right? Yeah. Yeah, of course.

It was the Yeah, there was a phrase.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, if I remember correctly, that is the, that is what is, yeah. I would agree so, I would say so.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, and I was trying to figure out too, I can't remember if it was, if that, I think it's level nine, right? Is that level nine? Of the nine, the nine level meditations?

[Speaker 1]
No. I don't know. Is that in the lion's dance, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not that it matters. I was just kind of wondering.

Yeah. That sounds right. Yes.

So, Adam, what do you think is this rather than, is it a, it seems weird to say that it is, has a good motivation or a virtuous motivation, like because it's not based in renunciation? You got me, man. Okay, yeah, fair enough.

You got me. Uh, yeah. What is the, what is the next, what does the next section say?

Yeah, uh, uh, the old, uh, funny kitten movement. I feel like we just get further entrenched, especially in this text. Okay, well, if you just think about what it's trying to say, which is that, I think that, okay, cool.

Cessation meditation can be virtuous. Right. But, you know, if you don't have the motivation to get out of suffering, it, it's not going to.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. So somehow the words have to like fit into that concept. Right.

Yeah. I mean, there's no other reason why you would put in here. Yeah.

Right. So it's qualifying something. Yeah.

Paula, your practicality is great. Yeah. So something like then cessation meditation, while virtuous by motivation, this, um, meditation wherein you have put to rest your discrimination and feeling is not, uh, motivated by a desire to, um, get out of suffering.

Something like it. Something like that. Um.

One or other. Go ahead, Paula, please. No, someone else was starting right before I did.

Oh, but it was me. I was trying to summarize, but please say your piece. No, no, no, no.

I was just going to. Okay. Sorry.

I haven't quite woken up yet either. Give me just like two minutes. I got to get the motor going.

Okay. What is another art? Sugeng, do you have any insight into what in the context of this book would be other virtuous states of mind that are not renunciation?

What other kinds of goodness are there that are not renunciation in the context of the 12 links? Do you have any sense of that? Um, I, I am not sure.

Virtuous, but not renunciation. It's okay. Is it?

Uh, yeah. Well, I just kind of saw something. I was looking at, um, Sugeng's, um.

Yeah. Translation here. What's on the screen?

And, uh, am I right? And can, in, in reading this to say that, uh, just the desire to stay single pointed. And, uh, not focused on the.

That's virtuous.

[Speaker 3]
Just.

[Speaker 1]
I think it's that, um, wanting to be, to reach a state of cessation. Meditation in order to, uh, you know, put to rest or anesthetize yourself. Um.

Is not motivation that renounces suffering. Okay. Okay.

Right.

[Speaker 3]
Sorry. I just pulled up my notes from last class.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, that's great. But somehow it's good. I like the thought of being able to anesthetize myself before I go into the doctor, just self anesthesia.

The content itself is not virtuous. It's the motivation that makes it virtuous or not. Oh.

Yeah. Okay. All right.

Let's keep going. Maybe. So hold on the last part, I was confused.

Paula, you say the content is not virtuous, but the motivation is virtuous. Right. That's what my note says.

So without a motivation of wanting to get out of suffering, you're just creating, uh, the cause to remain in suffering. So how is it virtuous? Yeah.

If you want to get out of suffering. Oh. Well, I'm saying without, sorry.

Nevermind. No, no, no. I think that, um, well, from my notes, it seems to be that it's a mistake to think that it's a virtue that, uh, this kind of meditation in and of itself is virtuous.

Yeah. Okay. I think that without having renunciation.

And it's kind of what Gashimon shared us, shared with us too. Right. Yeah.

That's why I was a little confused. It appeared that the, that's why I kind of made the, I wanted to clarify because the way that the translation was here on the screen, it appeared to say that just aiming towards Shiné was somehow virtuous in itself. Okay.

So when we say, at the beginning here, oh, look, it's, and it's that day. Check it out. Right.

This day, this is you want day. So again, you ask for day. Oh, you're going to get day.

This cessation meditation is virtuous by motivation. The one that we're referring to in this context is virtuous by meditation. But it wouldn't be, you see, if it didn't have renunciation as its motivation.

But this one is, you see. Right. Right.

This, um. Who needs bunnies and kittens? Not I.

But yet. I would say that cessation meditation, but that's just picky. Could be.

But the purpose is to stay in a balanced meditation and therefore. Oh, yes. It is not necessarily.

I think that didn't do is in order to, isn't it? In order to. Or maybe it's for the, nevermind.

That's fine. It's fine. Yeah.

I don't know. Okay. I think it makes sense now.

Yeah. I mean, I think the my yin means it isn't right. Uh.

It essentially what's before the knee, I think. Yeah, right. It would not.

I think it would not be. I think my yin means it would not be virtuous. You see, without that motivation.

Yeah. You see. Yes.

Yeah. I would say right up top, right after the cessation meditation referred to. Above by motivation is virtuous.

Yeah. And then necessarily even necessarily in me, leave it too loose. Yeah.

Yeah. He doesn't say necessarily. I mean, for for fun.

I mean, I would put it up. Up top on that first line. So again, you see.

So you have your first sentence and then the second sentence is, however, it is not. Virtuous. You can supply.

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Right. Without the intention. We thought, you know, without the intention or motivation.

Right. Or without the state of mind. Right.

Um. Okay. Right to.

Get out. Right to escape suffering.

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. And then. It's purpose.

No. Yeah. It's purpose is to stay in a balance.

Something like that. Right. You need another space after that period, sir.

Again. You need another space after that period. I'm sorry.

Yeah, you could say. Yeah, that's right.

[Speaker 3]
The man after my job. No.

[Speaker 1]
It's okay. We could we could spend time massaging the English, but that's maybe not the best use of our time. All right.

Okay, let's move on. Thank you. Okay.

To say. It is. Yeah, this level.

Yeah, it's included in that level. And the level. Oh, it is included in the level.

What is this first sunny? The level. So, yes, it means level.

Yeah, this is we're talking about this, this meditation. Yeah, right. So here's another thing we're talking about this meditation.

It's level is. Um, yeah, that was so earlier when it said that this level, there were some, uh, there was some contacts that Geshe-la provided, um, in the. Yes.

Up above. And he was, he was calling it Keche. Like this, this was he referring to this, the four name, uh, the four name, the four name heaps.

Right. But was he referring, was he calling it Keche meditation? Did I read that right up above?

He did say that. He did say something like that. And we don't.

We haven't yet had clarification about why, but we're hoping that that's going to come.

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I didn't want to stall us out. But. It's true that happened.

Yeah. I was here in body, you know, body, but not mind. Sorry.

So I, so the level is included in the ninth causal level of the sansara, which is the fourth level of formless realm. Uh, all these are basically referring to sitze, right? Yeah.

This is just a, an elaborate translation of sitze.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Right. Uh, which you might, yeah. It's peak of existence, right?

Peak of existence.

[Speaker 2]
Right.

[Speaker 1]
Peak of existence or something. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

I mean, that's literally what it says. Included in the right, in the, in the level called peak of existence. Right.

And yeah, this level of meditation is included, right. In the level called peak of existence. That's pretty literal.

Yeah.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
And then I don't, at the same time, I don't always love a lot of parentheses. I would be helpless without the one that you just provided. So at the moment, I'm very glad it's there.

So then, um, uh, is the Tampa of Keichei. Oh, so do we call this meditation for Keichei? This meditation called Keichei.

So should we call this meditation? Well, no. Oh, he called it state of mind.

So the Keichei here is a state of mind. That's so counterintuitive to my normal understanding of the word Keichei. Yeah.

What other possible? So, well, it was really interesting because the, uh, I mean, so, uh, Sisei would be a formless realm meditation, the fourth level of the formless realm. And we're using Keichei to describe that state of mind.

Well, maybe not. Yeah. Well, I guess that, I think that's the whole name of the thing.

I think it's called Dujeme, Dujeme, Mingi Keichei. Oh, it's the, it's the sense awareness that is neither discriminating or non-discriminating. And it's not one of the 12 Keicheis that would be, um, yeah, the six sense powers and the six awarenesses.

It's almost like being referred to as a 13th one, the unlucky 13th Keichei, um, because it doesn't discriminate, uh, which all the other ones do and which is not to say that it doesn't because it neither does nor doesn't. So it's called the, yeah, yeah. It's not bad, right?

The sense awareness, yeah, of discrimination or, oh, of non-discrimination or not non-discrimination. Brutal. But it does say something like that.

That's, it's, you've, you've made it as unwieldy as in the English, as it appears to be in the original language. I don't know what, what should be a better English then. I sympathize with your problem.

I know the non-discrimination is already not very Englishy. You're right. Yeah, I agree.

Do shame me. Yeah. All right.

So is this acceptable? Should we move on? Well, we still have the, oh yeah, I'm sorry.

You're right. Um, yeah. Yeah.

That's basically fine. Okay. Yeah.

So the ripening, karmic ripening of the names of the peak of existence. Oh, the four, oh, this is the four, the four, the four heaps of the name. Yeah.

The four heaps that are not physical. The four heaps which are not physical, the four heaps which are not physical. And they're called name, quote unquote, name, because they're not physical, because name is a concept.

How do I put this in this context, the four heaps, which are the four heaps which are not physical, part of the peak of existence? Well, are we saying you're in this essence taking birth there? And so basically, this sort of meditation ripens into the four heaps of name, which are present at the peak of existence, or which are present in, if, yes, this sort of meditation ripens into the four heaps, right, which are not physical, great, called name, right, which, if you like, which one possesses at the level called peak of existence, right, which is possessed, you could say, yeah.

Well, I've heard it was way down, further down, we got a bunch of dongs. Oh, that's true, yeah, well, yeah, okay, let's see. So sorry, should I hold on to this?

I would just say, I would just say at the level called peak of existence, and then if we get some clarification from a verb, we can come back and clean this up. But at least then you have all the information waiting for you. All right.

Okay. Okay, let me put it this way. Kongsakkyong, pakpa, kone toppadang, kone toppa, kone toppa means only be achieved.

Yeah, yeah, right, yeah, that's pretty clear, right, oh no, only achieved, yeah, yeah, achieved, well, yeah, toppa is achieved. And then pakpa, kone would be arias alone, right, or, yeah, by arias alone, kyeong rather than, yeah, but not an ordinary human is fine, it's fine, I mean, yeah, you're not wrong, it's fine, it's a perfectly reasonable, it's not as literal, and it's utterly accurate and clear. Okay, thank you.

And how do we link that to the top sentence because of the dong here? Well, look, we've got another dong. So as Utpala said, we can be patient and wait for this verb.

Yeah, you see, Kongsak, oh, we have another one there, right. Let's just let him keep tong before Utpala. When Geshe-la taught this, he said, what kind of person can do this kind of meditation called no conception and not no conception, only an aria?

So it's not to like achieve, but do, but maybe it would, maybe there could be another, like, who can reach this state of meditation or something like that. Oh, because Kongsak is like, whoever could do whatever it is we're talking about. I was, oh, Ganya.

Yeah, right. I mean, Pagpa is a Kongsak. Pagpa is a Kongsak.

Sure. Sure. We're all Kongsaks here, buddy.

No one here but us Kongsaks. The heck of a condition, man. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. Let's see what happens next.

Let's see what happens next. Nyongyo ni, kene nyongyo dang, landrang shen la nyongyo dang, nyong warma nge pa sum yupe. What?

Oh, okay. It's okay. Okay.

Oh, why is this cut here? Oh, okay. Yeah, this is, why did I cut it that way?

Come on. Did you do that in Sijin? Yeah, I think so.

I think so. I think this is what I did. Oh, come on.

Okay. Let me just combine them together. Why did I do such thing?

I don't know. I was probably drunk. He just put that up that way when he taught it.

Did he? Yep. Oh, okay.

So it was not my problem? Nope. Okay.

I didn't do it. Okay. All right.

So not this kansak but some aria. Kansak mean? Okay.

Nyongyo, okay, so the experience. There is nyongyo in this life. Is it in this life or does that mean in the next life?

In the next life. In the next life. In the very next life.

Experienced in the next life. That's an interesting phrase. That's a good homework phrase.

I wouldn't, it's not obvious that that means in the next life, but I guess it does mean that. Idiomatically. Yeah.

This is both.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
From. After. From.

After. Yeah. Yeah.

It's the ablative case marking particle, which can be where something is from, but it also, especially nay, especially the N version often shows sequence. You see one thing after another after another seems like it's more commonly than nay than delay.

[Speaker 3]
And.

[Speaker 1]
And so it's right out if I'm waiting after birth for something to happen. I better wait for the next one, because the last one already happened. We could still know it's an interesting etymologically could be waiting.

I hope I'm waiting a long time. Linda. Okay.

Thank you. Okay, and then lend wrong. Young Yoda, or some other number experience in some other numbered birth birth in, you know, square brackets.

Okay, or life. Cool. Yeah, some other number Yeah, that's great.

Yeah. Then some other. Great.

Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, warm on your bus. So, you know, cannot be predicted.

Yeah, it's not certain when it will be uncertain. That is not certain. Yeah.

Yeah. So it's like, Oh, as for when it will be experienced, it's either going to be in the next slide, or some other life after that, or we don't know when they're those three. I mean, there seems like three fits into the first two but could be.

[Speaker 3]
Could be the first two fits into the third.

[Speaker 1]
Things like, yeah. When we're asking the difference between two and three so. Yeah.

Oh yeah, if we were to read further. The three examples basically number three is talking about the situation. So that's why it's not certain.

Oh, wow. Nice. Right.

Very clever. Okay.

[Speaker 3]
Yay.

[Speaker 1]
I mean that was from Sheila, not from me. So yeah. Yeah, but you remembered it.

I remember, right. Right. Thank you for the most important capacity.

Our available expertise here is just to remember what the boss said. The very important skills to. Okay.

Yeah, next are the exam, the examples of each. This way. Cut it.

That's where you got your homework questions from. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Those are my homework questions.

So let's go through this one. Don't pony. Don't pony first.

Okay. So, again, this day, what is this day. So, if they money on par.

If they, if they don't fall out of day that they don't fall out of that, and that means the meditation achieved the cessation meditation. Uh huh. If they haven't dropped out of that, then.

Then, he said there was a problem here. Well, he said. When my grammar is so poor.

That just looks fine to me.

[Speaker 3]
He said that it should be an area in the, in the desire.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, right.

[Speaker 3]
The cessation.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, yeah. Here it just says area of the desire realm, I wouldn't know enough. I wouldn't know enough to to be mad.

It seems okay to me to say an area of the desire realm. Instead of an area in the desire realm. I would say you could almost get away with translating it that way but.

So that and you're asking about the day. Su gang, it's so often just means that one, it's, what do they call it in English like the word. In English is a definite article means that that one we're talking about the one we already talked about day means which are you the one we're talking about, not just any old area.

And that's a good guide for your days in life. After some other room. Yeah.

Yeah, it could be. Yeah, this, you could say this or that. Paula would prefer, I believe that area.

Yeah. Okay. My secondary skill is remembering what Paul said.

Thank you for sharing. Okay. Yes, that are you're in the design room, who is trying to achieve the station meditation.

Great. Yeah, if they don't drop out. They will make by definitely be reborn Kayla in our seats in the highest level.

Yeah, that's right. It's just right. He'll say he's our timekeeper today.

Okay. Oh, sorry.

[Speaker 3]
Thank you. I'm sorry.

[Speaker 1]
Sorry. I thought she was saying some word means time was still thinking of that. Okay.

All right. Thank you. Okay now so again you have to help us apply this to our lives it's not easy, but if, if I were to nominate someone to help us.

It would very possibly be you. Me. Oh, okay.

Oh, I thought you were going to say. No, you're just the guy I think you're a perfect guy for the job to help us. You spent a lot of time in these very unusual meditation states in your texts, learning about them.

And so, tell us what has happened when you're brushing your teeth, or walking your bird, or doing your job. What occurs to you about this sort of discussion that can help us as we're walking our own exotic pets in the world. Yeah, I'm very intrigued by this fact that motivation is very important.

So, that means, even if we are doing something which might be virtuous, but if our motivation is not as virtuous, the whole thing will be discounted by a lot. Well, not only that, but it like keeps us in samsara, it creates the causes for us to stay longer. That's true.

That's true, too. You know, like, yes, scary, huh. Scary.

So yeah, I was just reading these three principle paths, and it's beautiful reading that we need to imbue the three principle paths in all our activities, in what we are doing, in what we are saying, and in what we are thinking, to make them pure, to make them pure. So, and I think those are really the motivation. Those are really the motivation.

You know, very often in Indonesia, when I was younger, when we see beggars, we just give them money, not because we want to help them, but because we want to get rid of them quickly, you know. So, on the surface, it looks like it's a virtuous thing, you are giving money to the beggar, but when you go deeper, the main motivation is to get rid of them, go away, don't stay here for too long. So, yeah, motivation is important.

And yeah, I really like what Venerable Pala was saying, that it will keep us in the wheel forever, or for a very long time, so it can be scary. A lot of times we thought that we are doing something good, but if we forget about the motivation behind what we are doing, then we are actually doing more harm than good. So that is what I can infer from this paragraph.

Yeah, and when he says motivation here, right, he's very specific. It means the motivation to get out of the cycle, and I find that intimidating. Personally, I like my life, right?

I mean, here's a question that I sort of struggle with, and I really could use my friend's help with. I lead a very blessed life, and I don't know how to think about that, like I don't want it to run out, but I get to come together with friends here and have these beautiful discussions, I have a beautiful family, I'm well fed and cared for. Sometimes it seems like it's, I don't know, maybe it's either not so good for my motivation, if my motivation should be to get out, or could I be misunderstanding what it means to get out?

Could getting out of suffering be an understanding of the beauty of my life, wherein I want it to keep getting more and more beautiful, rather than watching it fall apart, which it always seems to for everyone. Eventually, this has to run out. All I've ever seen in the people around me is that life deteriorates and falls apart, either because of circumstances outside or just the body will just tear itself apart.

How do I live a beautiful life and keep this sort of a motivation to get out of suffering?

[Speaker 3]
It seems to me, and this maybe sounds like I'm not talking about what you're talking about, but I'm trying to, but it seems to me that us meeting together three times a week and discussing these things together, and we're doing it all, we're all over the world.

[Speaker 1]
We are on different sides of this planet, and each experiencing a different time, and we're talking about the highest of teachings. If I think about what a Buddha paradise is, it's Buddhas and Bodhisattvas hanging out, talking about Dharma. We're planting the seeds through our discussions to have that experience in a way where none of us are confused or stuck with what grammar particles we're talking about.

This is good. This is really good. I totally agree, and it could be so much better.

That it's so good now, this is just a little taste of what it could be. Yeah, that's nice. There's that same also by Je Tsongkhapa about licking honey from a razor blade, and it tastes really sweet, and you just feel the pain that's associated, that comes with it all, later.

A little later.

[Speaker 2]
Ben, you are asking a very good question, but it's very hard to explain.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I struggle with it myself. Yeah, it's very hard to find. I oftentimes have so much...

I do, I reflect on just how blessed my life is currently, and just how fulfilled I am being a dad. That when I think about the highest love that I've had, it's been being a dad, and so it's hard to not want to come back to that too. I've actually caught myself a few times thinking, you know what, I wouldn't mind another human life, so that I could experience this again.

I've heard some incredibly, some transcendent musical experiences that I've had too. I love music, and it's oftentimes I associate these very pleasurable kind of sense perceptions with being a human. And I'm like, oh my god, what would it be like?

I think basically what I'm just saying is, yeah, if that's my current level of karma, I can only imagine how good it's going to continue getting. Yeah, the upward spiral that I can hopefully generate using this platform with which I can give back to the world to create some karma, to hopefully propel me into a much greater life next, or to even escape, hopefully.

[Speaker 2]
I would like, I would try to share. I think the question that I think is, we think on how we born in this earth, what karma that bring me to become a human being? How, what karma that create a flowery world for me, and this beautiful world.

And then, if you notice that if we born in this world, this earth, we experience a cycle, born, age, sick, and death, these four parts. And then, so, I get the feeling that I'm in a cycle, born, age, sick, and death. And then, it's not mean that I don't want a good life, a pleasant thing, a beautiful friendship, I don't want money, it's not mean like that.

But it is like, it is, when you see, when you look at the money, you will think that what karma that, what karma that I planted in my previous life that make me, I need to experience the money. So, let's say, for example, if I marry, let's say, I would think that what karma that I planted in my previous lifetime that make me, I have to create this thing in my life now. And then, if I born here, if I born in this earth again, in future life, not this life, in future, then it's just a repeated that born, age, sick, and death, and then game over, and karma again.

And then, I use an example, if an animal being, they might think, future life, I want to upgrade to be a human. And then now, I'm in human, so do I, you have to ask yourself, do I want to come back to this place again?

[Speaker 1]
Well, it's, you know, I think it's a very, it's a very interesting question. I mean, from what I understand, this is the most precious rebirth that we could hope to achieve. From the perspective of the Lam Rim practitioners, it's like, it's our ticket.

Like, this is, this is so, you know, I think, so I think there's, there's also this part of my mind that I'm very mindful about keeping just that. I mean, we've got the three levels of practitioners, right? Like, one, I'm just concerned with keeping myself out of the hells.

Yeah. And I also need to be concerned with planting seeds to, to be, to, to be a human, you know?

[Speaker 2]
I mean, I haven't necessarily reached the status of a bodhisattva. And I was pretty intrigued to learn that what it means to be either, like a Abhidharmast, or a Satrantika, or, you know, a mind only practitioners, it means that you've, you've realized those things in a state of meditation. I haven't done those yet.

[Speaker 1]
So I'm currently, I'm just shooting for another human rebirth. That's, that's me right now.

[Speaker 2]
Like, I'm trying to stay realistic, while also realizing that, yeah, like we were just discussing in your class, we got to have a pretty high motivation.

[Speaker 1]
And the higher our motivation is, the more seeds we can plant. You know, the greater those seeds are. But yeah, it's also, we've got like the best rebirth we could have ever hoped for right now.

Like, it is the highest thing that we could have ever possibly hoped to have gotten is not just to have this precious human body, but to have made contact with an Arya in our lives, who is currently in the process of changing the world and bringing these teachings into this next century and into our current century. I mean, we are currently poised to take it all the way, boys and girls, you know what I mean? It's, it's pretty exciting.

And, but, yeah, what can I say? I kind of enjoy it along the way, too. I, you know.

That's great. Yeah, that's great. No, no buts, Adam.

It's perfect. I, it's a good note to end on. We're, we're a little bit over, and I couldn't think of a better note to end on.

So it's too good. Thank you, everybody. Su Gang Si, not so bad.

I think we had, I know I had fun today. I think we had fun today. And thank you for being brave with us.

Juan Jasso, are you standing by, ready to share with us some of the extraordinary joys in the practice going on around the world? Hello, Ben. Yes, I am here.

I can't do it. Oh, good. Thank you, buddy.

Nice to have you. Nice to see you. Now I see you.

Now it's nice to see you. Yes, good. Thanks.

Thanks a lot. Thank you for also, you know, taking the lead whenever Geshe-la needs to take care of different things. And, you know, you take turns to lead the session, but it's wonderful to see that we still give ourselves the time as a community, as a family, to be here and try to go deeper in this ancient wisdom text.

So it's very cool. It's very cool to be here. Thanks.

Thanks for saying that. I agree. It really is a joy, isn't it?

And I love these. I love these presentations you give. I think it's, you know, it's such a nice rejoicing party.

And I just, I couldn't think of a better person to lead the happiness party about what our friends are doing around the world each session. I appreciate it very much. So let me start sharing with you a little bit of what we have for today.

And last time, I would like to start with this. Last time, Monday, we had a little talk with Brian Mendoza, and he was telling us about this cool website he prepared for us, where he created some tutorials on how to use different softwares, different computer programs that are specifically designed for the needs that the worldview organizations usually have online. So let's say you want to learn how to deeply operate like the Zoom program, for example, or other skills like video editing, advertising producing and stuff like that.

This website is very, very cool, and it's totally for free. I already signed up, but I haven't started studying deeply the content. But I will encourage you, it could be very, very helpful to just increase our tech wisdom or knowledge, let's put it that way, and then being able to help many of the worldview organizations.

So just a reminder, and sharing here the access for the QR code, check it out, and maybe you'll really, really be able to improve tech skills. So check it out. It's for free.

[Speaker 3]
Can we have the URL, please? Juan, I opened that up and it goes to a cart and asks for money.

[Speaker 1]
No, no, it doesn't ask for money. It's not money. It's not money.

It's for free. It looks that way. Just register, but the number, it's zero, it's okay, and then it gives you access.

It's just the access system works like that, but you don't have to pay.

[Speaker 2]
Can you put the URL though? Because for me, looking on my little phone is difficult. So get it on the internet, on my desktop would be much easier.

Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Thank you so much. They are putting it on the chat.

I appreciate it very much. So let's go to the events that are coming up. In September, Diamond Mountain is planning to have this reforestation summit, hosted by Sky Harvest, this project that is focusing on restoring the environment over there.

We're going to be talking about it in detail very, very soon. I just want to give you a quick look of things that are coming up. This is happening in September, a month from now.

So if you have the time and you're interested in these topics, you can start making plans. Also in Diamond Mountain, in October, they are having the pre-retreat, helping students to get ready for the retreat that Geshe Michael is going to teach on October 12th. This one is going to be hosted by our friend Yeltsin, a week of preparations.

And then, next slide please, is the actual retreat with Geshe Michael. That's going to be October. And then also in October, just a reminder that we have our friends David and Sarani having a cool retreat about the Heart Sutra in Barcelona, Spain.

Just a reminder, you still have time. If you want to go, hopefully you can follow the QR code over there. And then in November, you may have heard about it, the Jata Yoga Pradipika Level 4.

That's going to be happening in Sedona, in the Sedona College of International Management. And then, December, Geshe Michael is going to be teaching what many say may be the last Lam Rim, not the last retreat, he's going to keep doing retreats, but the retreat where the Lam Rim, the book, the text is actually finished. Let's see if it is the case.

And in that sense, our friend Sugeng wants to remind us that they're organizing the Sedona College Academy Assembly, the SKAA event. And this is happening in Kyoto as well. For those who sign up for the Kyoto retreat, or the Kyoto Steps on the Path, there is going to be attendance for the SKAA.

And if you happen to register for Lam Rim, you can go for free, apparently. Soon we will be giving you more information, but for now, just so you know, if you have any questions about it, contact Sugeng, but you may be able to get on this event as well if you happen to register for Kyoto Steps on the Path. Okay, and then we're gonna celebrate that Geshe Michael reached already the 1,000 pages on his personal translation on Tsongkhapa, Illumination of the True Thought.

He's thinking the text may be finished by this upcoming November. And this is like a very, very great book, a milestone. Nicolas Shaw was telling us the other day, many people have tried or want to translate this book.

But so far, Geshe Michael seems to be the person, the lead on this project in the world. So it's wonderful, wonderful. And we are celebrating this milestone of 1,000 pages.

Soon we'll be ready, and I bet it's going to be wonderful when he starts teaching it. We pray and hope for that. Cool.

All right, so now we will finish our section, inviting our special guests. Oh, so just one more thing. We want to invite people, keep encouraging people to send your testimonies.

If you are doing the practice on the Good Night Book Club, just please tell us how it's going. Me personally, I've been trying myself for the last few days, and I'm already seeing interesting changes in my mind. Just not using my phone or computer at some point at night, and not using it in the morning before I do my practice.

It's very interesting. If you are doing it, and you want to share with us, please feel free to follow the QR code and send your video. Two, three minutes is okay, whatever.

Tell us how it's going for you. If you have noticed any changes or improvements, we'll enjoy sharing with other people as well. Okay, let's welcome our friends this time that are talking with us about Sky Harvest and the second reforestation summit happening on September 2nd.

This is Pachi Coquette and Alex Roland. If they are with us, could you help us to pin them, please? Hello, Pachi.

Hey, hello, Juan. How are you? Hi, Alex.

It's good to see you, Argentines. What are you in? Springtime?

No, no, we're still in winter. It's a hard winter this time. Okay, it looks nice.

And what are you, Alex? Are you in Colorado?

[Speaker 2]
I'm in Colorado. Yes, I have to wear a sweater in Colorado, even in the summer.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I kind of remember that. I spent some time there as well. And yeah, I used to joke that the warmest day in the summertime is the same as a cold day in the wintertime in Guadalajara.

So I would like to talk to you about this summit, Pachi. It seems that you're putting a lot of energy. I've been looking at and seeing social media, a lot of movement.

Could you tell us a little bit of what's going on with this summit? What's about to happen in Diamond Mountain? Okay, yeah.

[Speaker 3]
The first thing I wanted to say, Juan, is that this is a Skull Harvest Diamond Mountain Retreat Center event.

[Speaker 1]
We are having an ecological restoration volunteer and education summit. So what this means is that we are dividing the day into two parts. We are doing ecological restoration in the morning, volunteers working to implement antique and new techniques to try to keep water in the place instead of just letting the water to run away.

And then in the afternoon, we'll have an educational summit with experts from the area that knows how to restore ecologically the desert. And then we will have something else that Alex will tell us. This is an event starting on September 2nd and will finish on September 7th.

We are looking for eight more. We already have a few volunteers. We are looking for eight more volunteers to come learn.

It's interesting, Juan, that we are giving this event for free. You want to come, we pick you up at the airport. We provide you beautiful, nice food, vegetarian food and lodging.

If you are interested in learning how to restore, how to help ecological restoration, then you should come. That's very, very cool. And yeah, you mentioned that there is a few extra activities that you're preparing for people as a surprise.

And in that sense, I would like to hear from Alex, what are these kind of activities and how are they connected with this idea of restoring the environment?

[Speaker 2]
Thank you, Juan. Thank you, everybody. The exciting thing is we want to help people really understand not only how our actions of recycling or reducing our carbon footprint makes a difference in the environment, but also we want to go into a seed level.

So for an hour and a half from 5 p.m. to 6.30, we're going to be doing some philosophical discussion, yoga and meditation. All of them are going to be about going deeper in how we're creating our world, how we create our environment through our thoughts, our words and our deeds. So if you see an environment around you or you hear on the news that our environment isn't as healthy as it could be, then you can make a difference with the actions that you do, as you know, as students of Geshe Michael.

[Speaker 1]
But what I wanted to emphasize is that using a high karmic object when you do an action, a small action, will make a big result. So a high object is, you maybe have heard before, that somebody in great need. Here, the arid environment is in great need of healing, so that the animals have a better place, so that it's healthier for the people.

So great need has helped you in the past.

[Speaker 2]
Maybe Diamond Mountain has helped you in the past and helps a lot of people, because people from all around the world come and learn and also learning online. So the actions that we could take here at Diamond Mountain will make a big impact, and that's what we'll be talking about, even in our yoga practice. We're going to dedicate our yoga practice to this, making a big impact through our thoughts, our words, and our deeds.

[Speaker 1]
So we could think of this like as a reforestation practice retreat as well. It's like a little retreat in the sense that people are going to be involved with the actual practice of helping the environment. I mean, I've been there, and I'm guessing it's in the same lines of kind of activities, like sometimes we're involved in preparing the seeds, preparing the soil, the earth, sometimes like digging, working with the earth, let's put it that way.

Also, people are going to be learning about techniques and information, but also people are going to be having meditation and yoga included as part of the activities, right?

[Speaker 2]
That's right, Juan. Also, I want to let you know is if there's somebody who doesn't want to be out doing the work that might be more physical, you can do a paid track where you can come and you can listen and enjoy, do personal retreat, and do some very light things like collecting seeds or just only helping out in ways that work for you. And we'll treat anyone who wants to come and pay.

You'll be VIPs. You'll get driven around and brought, you know, perfect snacks and red carpet treatment. So you don't have to be willing to work to come.

[Speaker 1]
That's very cool. And also, Pachi, you did mention that you are really inviting volunteers who want to go and help with this project by picking them from the airport, providing their food, accommodation, including the classes. Is that correct?

They just have to show up and you take care 100%. Yeah, absolutely right.

[Speaker 3]
We have an educational summit in the afternoon, plus yoga and meditation. And if there's any time left over, you can do amazing hikes in Diamond Mountain Retreat Center.

[Speaker 1]
So it's highly recommended that you come. That's very cool. Are you also supporting people with transportation, something like that?

Yes, in the case they need some help, we can also help you with some part of your flying ticket. Wow, that's really, really, really wonderful. And I think as you say, Alex, the karmic object in this case is very powerful.

I do believe so. It's a great retreat center. Many practitioners have done long retreats there.

It helps many, many people every year. It's like a place, like a holder place of wisdom in this world. And, you know, it belongs to this wonderful community of people who are truly wanting to make an impact in the world.

One person was asking if they can go with their kid. I don't know about that. But what did you say in the chat?

Someone was asking, can I come with my kid?

[Speaker 2]
We have to talk with Diamond Mountain about that. But I think you can contact Venerable Sunam. And I also should say Venerable Sunam, Venerable Kading and I will be teaching those afternoon classes.

I meant to tell you that. Venerable Kading is a three-year retreatant. We're all certified teachers, so very well guided.

And one other thing, Juan. Sorry, now I'm talking fast because I want to pack it in. Maybe you can come and stay all the way through the Medicine Buddha or make a personal retreat.

It's not that you have to come to Diamond Mountain for five days and leave necessarily. So maybe you're going to come and stay for a couple of months or you're going to do a little side trip and make a September and October are going to be amazing times for learning around Diamond Mountain.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you so much. We would like to show the QR code one more time in case anyone wants to catch it. And if possible, if someone in the chat has the actual website, the URL code, if you could help us sharing it.

It's actually the Diamond Mountain website. And then people either can use, yes, thank you very much, Alex. People can either use the QR code, the Diamond Mountain website, or I will encourage people, assuming I have your permission, guys, to contact you to text you either Alex or Pachi.

Just ask your questions if they want to go and wonder a little bit more about it.

[Speaker 2]
Absolutely. And please register within one week from today. If you could, we need to start planning for all the details.

So get right on it. Thank you, Juan, for the time.

[Speaker 1]
And thank you very much. Send cool videos when you do it. I think it's going to be amazing.

Diamond Mountain is looking better and better and better every year that I visit. Do you want to say anything else, Pachi, to finish?

[Speaker 3]
Yes, I wanted to say that, you know, we are living in a time where we are growing 100 million hectares of desert.

[Speaker 1]
We're losing that amount of land every year to desert, to desertification. So it is not just like, I don't know, something interesting for people to know. It's the same way you might learn CPR to be able to help someone on the street if they have some kind of failure, heart failure.

I think we all need to know how to keep water on the ground. We need it. It's part of our survival.

So if we think that we are kind people or if we want to be kind people, we need to learn these techniques. These are not only to be used in a desert like Diamond Mountain. This is something that we need to learn how to apply it in your own environment.

[Speaker 3]
I am here in Cordoba, Argentina province, and we have like seven months of drought every year.

[Speaker 1]
I am already teaching this when I walk around, I talk to people and I am showing them how they should start using their abilities to improve life conditions on Earth. So this is not just like something interesting. It's something that we should all consider important.

[Speaker 3]
Okay, so that's my two minutes speech.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you very much, Pachi and Alex as well. Sending best wishes and excited to hear more news soon. Just maybe one week before we can have a quick talk about how it's going.

Or once you're there, it will be very cool to connect a little bit. Thank you so much, Juan. We can't wait to be there on the ground and to give you the report.

Cool.

[Speaker 2]
So we can tell you directly.

[Speaker 1]
Awesome. See you next time and best, best wishes. Thanks, Juan.

Thanks, Alex. And thank you also to all the audience. We hope you enjoy a great weekend and see you Monday if everything goes well.

Bye, Pachi. Saludos. Saludos.