Стэнли Чен — Книга 2: Красноречивые слова о сути океана высшего знания (Гьялцаб Чже о «Своде высшего знания» — Абхидхарма-самуччае), занятие 15

[Speaker 1]
About that time, everybody. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening. Coming to you from Rimrock West, San Diego, the new Rimrock.

I hear Geshe Michael's out here right now. I hope everybody's doing really well and I'm looking forward to a very exciting class today with Stanley Chen, who never ceases to think of cool and fun creative ways to bring the old ideas to us. You there, Stanley?

Yes, sir. All right, we're ready when you are. All right, thank you.

It's good to be here. Good to see you. Yeah, good to see you too.

Okay, all right. Nick, can you check your WhatsApp? Sure.

Yeah, okay. Aha. Later, after the class, not now.

Okay. I mean, that part that I'm requesting. Yeah, that's fine.

That's fine. Whenever you want. Cool, cool.

Thank you. All right. I still have the 15 minutes after the class, right?

For the discussion.

[Speaker 2]
Yes, yes, yes.

[Speaker 1]
Use that time.

[Speaker 2]
Perfect.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Hi, everybody. Welcome back to the Xuanzang Tower.

Today is Abhidharma. So my name is Stanley Chen and I'm in a very beautiful city near the ocean right now. That's where Nick is living.

I think his life is too good. I don't know how he can do mix nuts here. Xuanzang always finds a way.

Don't worry. That's true. And Tim Laurenhau is also already on the beach.

Okay, great. So I have a special plan. Oh, my God.

Look at that place. That's a little distracting. That's why I'm staying in my home.

Okay, back to business. So today I have a little special plan. Since Geshe-la is not teaching this class today and I got a little freedom to do a little freestyle.

And I thought we can do something fun together. So basically, here's the plan. Number one, when Geshe-la comes back to teach this book again, the Abhidharma Samuccaya, basically the Mahayana version, the mind only version of Abhidharma.

So when Geshe-la comes back later, I don't know, maybe in a month or something, we will enter into a new section of the book. And that book, that section, it's a very famous topic of the Abhidharma genre. It's about the five hips, the 12 doors of senses, and the 18 categories.

So basically, in DCI language, it's a jewelry box of the whole universe. And by categorizing or dividing the whole world, the whole universe into different ways, like the five hips, or the 12, or the 18, then we get to understand our reality much better in a more thorough and deeper level. And then in this school, after doing that, you will be ready to get to the deeper reality, meaning seeds and emptiness, dependent origination, and emptiness, which is like the guts of all the Mixed Net book, or the Shenzang Tower book.

So we are going to enter that. And these five hips, these topics, actually we already covered them, like from seven years ago, when we were studying the Master Vasubandhu's version of Abhidharma. It's the Abhidharma kosha.

So you will be very excited, if you are me, I don't know, but I will be very excited to compare the two versions of the same topic, the five hips, etc. So to be able to do that later, I want to bring us all back together to this topic again, like a review, like a quick review from Master Vasubandhu and other books, like the standard presentation of the five hips, for example. And then we got to talk to Gyaltsen Jay later, with Geshe-la's translation help, because that, as we understand, Gyaltsen Jay, usually it's on a different level.

If you are a big fan of Shenzang class, you know that he doesn't treat things, treat the easy parts. He always focuses on the deep part, and he himself is a great logician. And the way he likes to present things is usually in a dialectic style.

And if you are not familiar with this topic, like the five hips, it's really hard to follow. And it's very common that we will get lost with Gyaltsen Jay. With Gyaltsen Jay's guidance, we'll get lost.

Is it possible? So that's one reason we're doing this today. And the second reason is, I myself, it's like Nick mentioned, I like to connect ancient wisdom with modern world.

I consider it like a high-tech advanced program, like the neural link Elon Musk is doing. He's trying to connect a human brain with, I don't know, AI machines. So a human can talk to the machine directly without coding or stuff, just thinking.

So for me, it's even more advanced, or more difficult to connect the ancient wisdom to the modern world. So recently, I'm working on a new project with Geshe Michael. It's called Innovation Retreats, which started three months ago, officially, in June this year.

And this program, this new project, is designed to bring the ancient art of retreats to modern professionals, to business people, artists, academic people, to cultivate new ideas, to always be able to generate or develop new ideas, or hear the innovative voice deep in your mind. If you can master this art, you don't have to do three-year retreats like some of our mixed nuts did. But if you learn to do these mini retreats, like three, five days regularly, and you don't have to stop working, it actually helps you work better.

And then you can constantly have new ideas. And new ideas are precious. New ideas are powerful.

I think with one single idea, we can change our whole life. So while working on that, I'm doing a lot of diamond mining from Abhidhamma, because Abhidhamma has a very thorough presentation on how, basically, how mind works. How mind works in terms of the different mental functions.

Like in Abhidhamma, there are 51 different mental functions. And how mind works in terms of different parts of the mind related to different sense organs, like the six consciousness, for example, related to eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body, and the mind. And how mind works in terms of how it interacts with the world, like how you see a color or something that you desire, and then how that will trigger some inner feelings.

All these things are very interesting to me. It's because in my theory, if we understand better or deeper how mind works in general, then of course it will help us to create new ideas. Because new ideas need a body and a mind, particularly a good, a great mind, a stable mind.

Like I find out that if I'm not happy, I'm constantly anxious, stressed out, couldn't sleep well. The new ideas wouldn't come to me. The great groundbreaking new ideas.

Don't talk to the noisy mind. Your mind has to be very calm and in a pretty high level of happiness, stable happiness. Then you can hear the great sound of innovation deep inside.

And to do that, I need Abhidhamma. I need the five hips. Man, there's a song called Hip Don't Lie, but that's not proper.

Okay, anyway. Anyway, so, sorry, I'm being Americanized. It's Nick's fault.

So, and Tim. I'm glad it's finally working. Okay, so that's why we are doing this today.

I want to go back to the, you know, very traditional Abhidhamma presentation of the five hips. And then all of you are very welcome to join the discussion. I won't just keep talking.

I will, I finish my talking part, the introduction, and then I want to interact. I want us to talk to each other and see what ideas you have or what question you have. Ideally, it's better to type because if everybody's talking, nobody's talking.

But you're very welcome to type or if I have a, like I will raise up a question and then you can, you can, you can talk. That would be great. Okay, so that's the plan.

Let's go. Let's get to it. And I'm going to share my screen.

Okay. Let me check. Can you guys see?

Is it all good? Yes. Yeah.

Okay. Stanley, for me, you're in front of the text so you can't see all of it. Can you move me away from your computer?

Or I have to do it?

[Speaker 2]
I don't think I can.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you have to move yourself, Stanley. I can't move you. I tried touching your face and it didn't work.

Oh, in that way, I'll use the old way. I'm not super mature.

[Speaker 2]
The innovative way was a fun moment with you. Thank you for sharing. I was excited.

[Speaker 1]
I thought you were going to point at the words behind you like a weatherman. I know. Next time I'll be more prepared.

Okay. Okay, let's do it. Can you guys see it right now?

Yes. Yes. Okay, thank you.

So the name of this book, again, if we are lucky or if we have more time, we can go to more sources. But the main sources we're using today is our great, loving master, Japa Shakyamuni, and then he wrote the great commentary on this higher knowledge, Abhidharmakosha. I like to call it the son commentary, the son of the true thought.

But we have many son commentary in Shenzang Tower. And then that's master Vasubandhu who wrote the root text. Okay.

And then let's go to the, go straight to this part. I'm just going to focus on the content today because my Tibetan and English, especially my Tibetan, is very, very limited. So my strategy today is just focus on the content, but you are welcome to follow the West Chinese language while we move on.

And we will reach to some ancient Chinese also, if you are interested. Some of the Chinese translations of Abhidharma are even older. The oldest one I know is like 1400 years ago.

So it's not easy to read. But if we have time, we can correct them a little bit today. So let's talk about five heaps.

I will read the Chinese a little bit just to honor my mother tongue. And then we'll go to English. 宋曰, 又诸有违法。

为色等无韵。 So what it's saying is, the original verses, meaning the Abhidharmakosha says, those produced things are as well five heaps form and all the rest. So in a way, five heaps equals to all produced things.

It's a different name for produced things. And later you will find out there are different nicknames for produced things. One that I like, it's called the base of languages.

言一, the basis of languages. A different one is called the 世路, the path of time. There are different nicknames, different ways to describe produced things.

And five heaps is one of them. Probably the most famous one. Probably because of Heart Sutra.

Okay, next, let's see here. So what are the five heaps? Let's review them again.

I'm sure most of you know about it. If you're new, it's good to learn about it. Let's read the Chinese.

又诸有违法,富有差别,略设为五。 为色等无韵,既色韵,受韵,享韵,行韵,食韵。 此物设前所说有为。

So if you are interested, these are the five names for the five heaps in Chinese. Sometimes you hear Geshe-la chanting the Heart Sutra in Chinese, then he would say 色,受,享,行,食, which means, let's see here, English. Well, let's read English first.

Now let's consider as well things which are produced. Oh, why don't I have someone read the English? It's more fun.

Anyone who are interested to read English? Let me see. Uta, hi.

Hi, Stanley. Thank you so much. Okay.

Good morning. Good morning. Can you please read the English?

Yes, gladly. Oh, can you? Yeah, great.

Thanks. Now let's consider as well things which are produced. They can also be divided.

We can group them here into five, because all things that are caused, which is how we refer to them in previous line, can be included into the five of form and all the rest, meaning number one, the heap of form, number two, the heap of feeling, number three, the heap of discrimination, number four, the heap of other factors, and number five, the heap of consciousness. Great. Thank you, Uta.

It's good to see you. Sure. Thank you.

Good to see you. Thank you. So, Chöryi Lama lists them out for us, okay?

These five are one way to divide all produced things into these five. It's a very traditional way to understand what's produced things. What's produced things?

Anyone who want to take a guess? What does it mean to say something in Chinese? It's a produced thing.

It's a very foundational idea of Buddhism, and it's very important, actually. If you don't know about it, you can't really talk to the other Buddhists or any other person.

[Speaker 2]
So, something that's produced usually is generated from causes and effects, right?

[Speaker 1]
Yep, exactly. Yep. Thank you, Adam.

Tien also says similar things, yeah, things which have causes, yeah, and then Uta said a changing thing. That's a different name for produced things, but it's correct. Yeah, if something is produced, number one, it must have cause, because it's produced by the cause and conditions, and number two, it must change, because it is caused.

If it can be created, it can be produced, it will be changed. So, let's see what Chöryi Lama says. Let's see if he agrees with us.

Let's do this line here. Let me try a different friend. Laura or Odara, do you want to try to read English?

Just English, don't worry. Not the words in Tibetan. Here.

Consider these five. They are produced things, because they are things which are distinguished by the fact that they are born from their particular causes and conditions. Yep.

Great. Thank you. So, we all agree upon produced things means that they are distinguished by the fact that it's a fancy way to say what is defined as things that are born from their particular causes and conditions.

Let me ask you some diamond mining question then. What about a happy mind? Is it a produced thing?

You'd have to ask, is it one of the five heaps? I think you could say yes. See, that's a very logical way to say thank you, Adam.

If they belong to one of the five heaps, they must be produced things. It's a great syllogism. In general, we say yes, for sure.

A happy mind. How about an unhappy mind? Does it come from no reason at all?

[Speaker 2]
Seems like it.

[Speaker 1]
Seems like it. A happy mind also produces things. Yeah, it is also producing things.

Yeah. What about a relationship? A relationship with a loved one?

I hope it is a produced thing, right? Yeah. Ben is like, yeah, I hope so.

Because it is all the produced thing is cause and effect. Yeah. I'm happy it's cause.

What about a baby? Is it a produced thing? Like, what lovely daughter, Amelie.

Indeed, she's produced. And she's changing every day, every time we saw her. She's dancing right now.

Great. I'm sure she will show up her backbend later. Enhanced it.

Yeah. So a lot of things, basically 99%, 99.99% of the world, all the things in the world, 99.99% are produced things. It's actually harder, much harder to find things which is unproduced.

It's much harder. Okay. So let's move on.

Let's go a little deeper into this five. Let's maybe separate them one by one. Let's start with the first hit.

Colleen from London, do you want to read it in English? Or your son can read it if he wants.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Joshua. And these five do, each one of them, possess a core nature. Because one, the heap form, the heap of form consists of things that possess physical form.

Okay. Thank you for your beautiful accent. Okay.

So the first part, which is very familiar to all of us, I guess, is the heap of form. And what is heap of form? Usually we might think of it as body, right?

I don't know if, because the word form in Chinese, it's kind of complicated. It could mean color. It could mean physical form.

But it doesn't say body. The Chinese translation, se doesn't say body directly. But usually when we say five parts of a person, if we say it that way, and usually the first part, the first form, it's your body.

But here, look at this definition more carefully. Does it say body or not? Does it refer to body only?

No. No, right? Yeah.

So anything that possesses physical form, it belongs to the first heap. Stanley. Yes, sir.

Neo Wendy. You have a question? You have a problem.

No, my question is, isn't the Chinese, isn't that like some kind of weird, like something happened, it's an abbreviation for like form, color and form, like what the eye sees or something. Yeah. Yeah.

So that's one problem. There is a problem. And you have it.

And I do have it. I have all the time with reading the Chinese classics, because in a very typical case, one word, one character like this, let me blow it up. This one.

Oh, sorry. One character of Chinese could often have like eight or nine different meanings. And you really have to be able to know the context or your language skill has to be quite sophisticated in terms of this ancient Chinese to be able to distinguish the right one for a sentence.

Say like, sir, here, yes, it could mean color. Like when we say red, we say hongse, so it could mean color. Right.

And then it could mean form. It could mean form like xingxing, sese. It means different forms, for example.

And then it could mean, yeah, both, most of the, and it doesn't mean body here, for example. As it can mean that the, and it could also mean the things your eyes see particularly. It's also so in that way, it might be more similar to Sanskrit, I guess.

Like all of these meanings are very common in the Sanskrit. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I would, if you don't mind, I would just point out that the, the translation of this word is the body. I don't know of anyone who has done that except for our teacher who seemed to have some special message to offer to us by translating it that way.

So it's not, it's not common at all. The common English translation, right, of rupa is body. I mean, no, not at all.

Only Geshe Michael, I think his translating it that way seemed to be some special way of helping us, especially in the context of the Heart Sutra, this very famous line, form is empty, emptiness is form. To say your body is empty, emptiness is your body, that it seemed, even though this is not at all normally how rupa or, or sup is translated that he wanted, I'm guessing here, right, us to have some sort of very personal, visceral substance of the word. But it's a very uncommon translation.

I see. I see. Yeah.

But it makes sense, right? Because what we're talking about here are the pungpunga. We're talking about five heaps.

And normally when those are spoken of, they're spoken of in terms of an individual human being. Often. Often.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, we all know Geshe Michael's translation is very unique.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
It's profound in many ways. Yeah. Cool.

Let's move on then. So now we talked about the first heap. So if we talk about the heap of a person, the heaps of a person, then we're talking about a body, the body, all the, all the parts of the body, actually.

And then if we talk, we are talking about the general five heaps, it could also involve all the physical things in the world, like your car, for example. Later, if we reach to the mind only version of Abhidhamma, there is a very nice presentation about why divide all things, divide all things into this five. And it's related to how we tend to attach, get attached to things.

And this way of five are very helpful for us to overcome those attachments, deep, deep habits, wrong habits. But we'll save it for later. Okay.

Let's see. Anyone want to just try to read the English?

[Speaker 2]
I'll try Stanley.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Okay. I'm going to give you a very serious critique of your English.

Do you want me to read off all the final four here? Let's do the next two, two and three, because they're good brothers. Who's checking?

Stanley check. I'm checking Tim's Chinese. The heap of consciousness consists of instances of main mind.

The heap of feeling consists of mental functions, which undergo pleasure, pain, or that which is in between these two. Oh, do one more, Tim, please. The heap of discrimination consists of mental functions, where we draw distinctions between what we see here and so on, semicolon while.

That's interesting. I just realized the order is not the regular order. Hmm.

Yeah. What is it in a Tibetan? Let's see.

Yeah. Consciousness. Yeah.

Right. Yeah. It's a different order.

Yeah. Interesting. But let's go through it.

I don't know why Chulalongkorn does this way, but let's talk about it. So usually the general order is the heap of form, the heap of feelings, like here, and then the heap of discrimination. And then we reach to the heap of other factors.

Then the last one, usually the number five, is the heap of consciousness. But here, our author, Chole Lama, do it a different way. So he put the heap of consciousness number two.

And it means the heap that consists of instances of the main mind. Anyone want to give it a shot to explain what's main mind here? Because, you know, in the psychology of Buddhism, it's very important to distinguish different parts of the mind.

And one way is to divide all your mind into two, the main mind and the mental functions. The Chinese is xīng wáng and xīng suǒ. King mind?

King mind. Yeah. Xīng means mind and wáng means king.

And here is suǒ. Xīng is mind. Suǒ means what is possessed by the mind.

Or derived? Mainly possessed here.

[Speaker 2]
Really? Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. So anyone want to give it a short description of what's main mind and mental functions? The mind which other parts of the mind aren't aware of?

I don't know. I think putting in the negative, it's aware of other parts of the mind, but other parts of the mind aren't aware of this. Wait, what's that?

That's main mind? Main mind. Yeah.

It is aware of all the other parts of the mind. Can we say general awareness of the mind? Yeah, something like that.

Yeah. Okay. I was trying to eliminate other possibilities.

Yeah. What's mental function then? The opposite.

Wait a minute. The mental things that the general awareness is aware of? Something like that?

I guess you're right. I don't know. To me, we don't have to complicate it.

It's like, functions of the mind and what the mind can do. Different way of the mind moves or works. Things like that.

[Speaker 2]
They're all aware, right? There's no part of the mind that you would say is not itself aware.

[Speaker 1]
I'm not sure, Nick. I mean, it sure gets complicated when we get into the word school. Yeah.

Don't go there. Let's stay with Vasubandhu.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, we are in the... Yeah. Okay.

Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Right. Let's do the foundation first.

It's good for the general audience. Yeah. Yeah.

But basically, we can say you can divide all your mind into two categories. Number one, general awareness. You're aware.

You know what you're doing. You know what you're thinking. You know what you see.

You know what you hear. All this awareness, general awareness is the main mind. And then different way of how mind moves, like be happy when somebody gets something they like, or just be able to focus on something, or hear new ideas.

You never heard before. Those are different functions of the mind. And among all the big, big, big functions...

By the way, we are using them every single second without being aware. Though your mind can be aware, but usually we are not aware. But according to Abhidhamma school, a lot of things are happening.

Different kinds of mental functions are happening every single second, moment by moment. And it's fascinating to think about it. The scientists, in a way, it's really true that our mind is like a super machine, very deep and very...

The database is unbelievable, the storage of our mind. And then the way that it could work is super deep. No machine or no scientist can understand it.

They say that the source or the origin of consciousness is like the top, most advanced field of science nowadays. It means nobody understands it. Like how they come to assistance at the very beginning of your birth, you know, or even before that.

Things like that. But among all the mental functions, two are extremely important, according to Abhidhamma. And they are these two.

Let's highlight them. The heap of feeling, feeling. And then the heap of discrimination, different kind of discrimination.

So what's feeling here? It says it's the function that undergoes pleasure, pain, or that which is in between these two. How do you know if a coffee is good or not?

You have the mental function of feeling. You need it. Not just the ton is not enough.

You need the feeling to feel. And then once you feel, you usually do the second thing, the second step. You discriminate.

Oh, this is Arab, how do you call it? Arabica? Yes, Arabica.

Yeah, Arabica. Like, oh, this is the more expensive kind of coffee. And then you discriminate.

Oh, this is just cheap coffee from, I don't know, Rimrock. Robusta. Yeah.

So the next function, discrimination, usually comes with feeling. And they are like two very close brothers. And discriminate, it means the mental function where we draw distinctions between what we see and hear and so on.

Question to you guys. Why are these two? So there are like 46 different mental functions in Abhidharma school.

46. It might only be 51. Why does Shakyamuni, Gautama, distinguish these two in the five hips?

They're problematic. Yeah, that's the traditional answer is this is what gets us into all our trouble. Yeah.

Many of us have the same ideas. They cause all the problems. I don't know if it's all the problems, but a lot of the problems.

I think that was the point. And they identify the problem. They're kind of the most prevalent, you know, of all of our perceptions too.

Yeah. Right. I remember that.

Adam, thank you. Yeah. Among all the different mental functions, these two are like stands out automatically.

Yeah. Way off them. Sorry.

Yeah. I was just going to say when you wake up in the morning, you open your eyes. That's kind of what you identify with being your world.

Yeah. Like once you feel like, oh, lower back pain, body ache, then the feeling comes up to the surface. Yeah.

So there's another reason that there are different reasons why these two are, you know, cherry picked. But it's good. It's a good meditation topic.

Like, why do we pick these two out of the 46 different mental functions? For example, intelligence. It's a very important mental function in modern world.

It's one of the 46. It's not wisdom. It's intelligence.

Like just IQ, for example. Mathematics, capacity, problem solving, logic, all these things. Languages.

It's important. Like, I wish I had more West Chinese IQ. But it's not listed here.

It's not listed here in the five. It's these two. So it's an open question for all of us to think why it is cherry picked here.

Somehow it's very, very important. Personally, I do realize the feeling gets in the way a lot. Feelings.

Like in how we do things, make decisions. It gets in the way a lot, a lot, a lot. We don't want to, but it's very powerful.

[Speaker 2]
Stanley, since we're still on the topic of mental functions, too, I just want to make sure that I understand.

[Speaker 1]
I've always thought about the mental functions in the main mind as being like a microscope and like the slides that go into the microscope. Is that too simplistic? Can you elaborate a little more?

Yeah. Like the analogy that I think that's like in the classical, like in the scriptural kind of example is like a crystal in a blue cloth. And so the crystal would kind of represent like the main mind and then the mental functions would operate like the blue cloth underneath that.

And so I just try to modernize it with a microscope analogy. Well, the one way to understand, I never thought about it that way, Adam, but one way to understand this too is, remember we were very big on how things are mentally linked in five different ways. Like every mental function, for example, intelligence, it's linked to the main mind in five different ways.

I don't remember, but let's try to remember all of them together. Like in terms of duration, it's always... Right.

But I can't remember them. As you're saying them, I'm like, oh yeah, that was one, but a hard time drawing the rest of the list. Object.

Object, right. Like when intelligence look at the AI chat GPT thing, your main mind is also looking at the same object. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Aspect.

[Speaker 1]
Aspect. What does it mean? Do you remember?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. It's like it colors how it is.

[Speaker 1]
It's like how the thing which is linked is colored by the main mind. Yeah. Maybe that's more related to Adam's metaphor in this case.

Yeah. So object, aspect, duration, what else? Yeah.

It's made up the same stuff, right? Mental stuff.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
You got it word. I know.

[Speaker 2]
Object, aspect, duration, stuff. And what is it?

[Speaker 1]
Someone help me. Two more cups of coffee before I'm there. We talked about duration, Bupala, at the same time.

Yeah. Same object, same aspect, same stuff. This is one more?

Yeah, there's one more. David, take a shot. I'm blanking.

What's the no distinct? No. Okay.

I'll look it up. Okay. Okay.

Thank you. Yeah. Let's don't get stuck here.

So if I stand there, before we leave this topic totally, just on the topic of why discrimination is so important. And I'm just thinking about this myself. And I never really thought about it this way.

But there's almost a distinction between lower school and higher school. Our understandings, even on our level of what it means to discriminate on, in a lower school sense, it's almost like there are objects out there. And we don't recognize them, or tell them apart.

Until we discriminate between them, we draw lines around things to recognize. But then, in the higher school, this is the creation of objects. Things exist as they are, because we create lines around things.

So this heap is, from a higher school perspective, you could almost say that this is the the capacity of the mind to create reality. Discrimination is what makes things exist. And then the other heap is how we feel about the world that we've created.

Do we like it or not? So these two heaps, what we make, the universe we create, and does it make you happy? Yeah, that seems pretty important.

Mm-hmm, yeah, yeah. So if you want to bring it to the higher school, the mind-only sense, because I went ahead and I checked the mind-only version of this heap, it says it means to basically conceptualize things, in this case. To make concepts of things.

We would say, make them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The lower schools kind of focus on taking what's already in the object, the aspects that's already in the object, and filter it out, and understand, oh, that's it.

Like when you look at a car, basically discrimination means you understand it's shape of the car, the color, and then you take the idea out of the car, and you think, oh, that's a car. But in the lower, in the Abhidharma school, the aspect of the thing is already there inside the thing, and this function, this mental function has the ability to take it out. And when we lose it, by the way, the funny thing is we don't usually think things are important until we start to lose them.

And then this function is extremely important if you talk about it in terms of Alzheimer's. Like the symptom of Alzheimer's means the decaying or the weakening of this function, in a way. You start to lose the idea to clarify things or distinguish things.

They all like mixed up together to you, and then you can tell a person from a window, for example, and that's scary. You know, the more I've listened to you guys talking- Well, isn't discrimination still going on? You still see a thing that a person without Alzheimer's would see two things, a person in a window, a person with Alzheimer's might see two different things, but they're still going to see, they're still going to make distinctions or discriminations between visible sense objects.

Yeah, yeah, totally. Nobody can really lose it completely. It's always there.

Yeah, like feeling, same. The more aware we are at the weakest point of our life, we still feel something. Like even the most depressed person in the world can still feel a little joy if you give them some massage, for example.

So the feelings are still there. Same with the discrimination. Yeah.

Yeah, Stanley, the more I've listened to you guys talk about it, it almost sounds like discrimination and labeling could be synonymous. Yeah, yeah. If we mix different schools, yes.

But if we just talk about Abhidharma, no, yeah, they don't. But of course, when Lord Buddha set that aside, he was preparing us, right? I mean, this is Lord Buddha's preparing us for the higher school, for sure.

You know, when he set those aside, we were going to be stuck with it forever for as many schools as we studied. Yeah, yeah. He knew it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. Good exercise.

I love you guys. I didn't try to take it there, but it's great that we went there. Let's come back again to the fifth heap and so that we can finish the five today.

Then my promise is fulfilled. Let's ask some new friends to read them. Maybe some Vietnamese friends.

Anyone from Vietnam want to give it a try? I can read it, Professor.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
The heap of other factors consists of mental functions other than those other ones listed here, as well as changing things which are neither physical or mental. Cool. The way to understand this heap is mathematics.

Take all the five heaps, deduct the other four, and then what's left is in this one. Cool. It's kind of cute because you put everything else here.

It's almost like Lord Buddha handpicked the most important four first and then put all the rest into this heap. By the way, heap means a pile of things, right? This pile is like a whole storage room.

It consists of many, many important things like all the other 44 mental functions are here, but there are also produced things which are not mentally linked here like, I don't know, impermanence itself. It's a typical example. There are 22 changing produced things which are not mental, so everything else you can categorize them here.

In our Diamond Cutter wisdom, what's the most important thing that is stored here? In the DCI system, for example. Seeds?

Yeah, it's here. How about emptiness? Is it here?

It's important? No, I don't think so. Nah, because all these five are produced things, produced things, changing things.

How about this emptiness of seeds? Is it here? Yeah, the changing is here.

Yeah, it is here. It's very interesting. Personally, I like one exercise where I think words are similar things.

We made a list of all these five heaps and its subcategories and then we tried to put things under each one. It's very cool. It's nice to do this exercise.

Then you somehow, according to Gyal Sabje from our previous class, somehow if you do this exercise, somehow if you are able to put things into their place in the jewelry box, it helps you with your deep meditation shamatha, and then it helps you to see emptiness directly, vipashyana, somehow. Remember we were talking about the benefits of studying this list? It increases your shamatha, increases your vipashyana.

There's another one. Anyone remember? It's very important for teachers or husbands.

Oh, that's really... Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can answer any questions, free from any fear.

No patience, unfortunately. Well, it was not mentioned here, but the ability to answer questions or to just talk to people comfortably and exchanging ideas without yelling at each other. By the way, I was looking at some of the American presidential debates from before.

I realized debates could turn into yelling, like the feeling gets so strong, you forget what you are doing. Anyway, so that's the last tip. That's the last tip.

There are more details. I don't know if I want to go there today. I'll show you.

I'll use just 10 minutes. One of my passions is to teach my American friends or Western friends some Chinese. So, just as a cultural exchange, I'll do some Chinese.

Nick and Aaron and I, we were talking the other day, the way that different languages carry information is very different. Chinese, in terms of a language, is very visual. English, to me, is very much about sound.

All the alphabets are related to sound, but not Chinese. All the different parts of a Chinese character are deeply related to visuals, because they are originally pictures of things, and then people construct them in a different way, and then they are made into a word. So, it's a different way of thinking, in a way, and it's very interesting.

It's a way to learn the classics, too. So, I'll do a little Chinese, just to do some cultural exchange, and I will talk about this one. I think we will go there later, but let's try now.

I mean, later in the classes. So, this is the commentary by Steramati. We quoted him last time, when we talked about the benefits of studying this list.

If you remember, anyone remember? He is one of the four main students of Master Vasubandhu, and then he is famous for Abhidhamma. He wrote many Abhidhamma texts, commentaries.

Steramati, anyone? Everybody looks a little confused. Yes, okay, great.

He's a mind-only master, also. Yeah. So, he said, he's answering a question.

Question, why there's only five hips? Why there are only five hips? Answer, let's put it this way.

It's very cool if you understand this line. Because I said so? That's a little too many words for that.

It is to demonstrate five things related to me. Oh, me. Okay, so it's about me.

Maybe that's why Geshe has translated the first hip as falling into body. It's about a person. It's about me as a person.

What are the five things about me that the wise one want to demonstrate or clarify? Wei means, it says, that's the first one. Second one, Third one, Okay, I want to start with the last one.

Remember, typically, what's the last hip? Main mind. Yeah, the hip of consciousness.

So, why there's such a hip here? It means, this is the thing that usually me is relying on. Literally, it means that this is the thing that me is relying on.

But what it really means here, later the Storamati clarifies it, it means here is, in the world, a lot of us, like a lot of sentient beings, like to see the hip of consciousness. And then imagine that it's me. Imagine that as me.

Okay, that's why it is mentioned here. It's a very important mind-only word also. What is the fantasy in the three natures?

The one that is totally wrong. Yeah, they use the same Chinese word. It means you fantasize, you imagine.

Usually, it's wrong. So, you imagine your consciousness, basically, the awareness. Remember, we were talking about what's hip of consciousness.

It means the general awareness in a way. So, the feeling, no, not the feeling, the awareness you always have. You know that you're doing something, talking, doing, thinking, that kind of knowing.

We tend to imagine that as me. And then that's why it's listed here. This line is also very powerful.

And then we see all the other hips. Yu yun means all the other hips. Ji zhi means imagine.

Wo suo means mine, what I have, what I own. So, basically, what this line is saying, because we like to imagine the general awareness as me, as this person, Stanley. And then we like to see all the other things as what Stanley has, what Stanley owns.

That's my body. That's my feeling that you hurt. And that's why it's distinguished.

The hips are distinguished this way. So, that's the last one. So, then we know all the other four.

It's about mine. It's about mine. But if we just look at this line, we just went through it.

You can already feel that the five hips are a great attack on me. That's what I already did from the very beginning. It's not just about different parts of the world, right?

Like he taught this, if I'm not mistaken, in the first teaching. Is it obvious? During the Abhidhamma period.

I think so, yeah. It's one of the earliest teachings, the five hips. It doesn't...

Yes. Right, right. It is.

Okay, yeah. The five hips were not only mentioned until Heart Sutra, the second turning of the wheel. It was mentioned way early, at the very beginning.

So, in this case, according to Stiramati, Buddha is already teaching us emptiness of me, of who we are. We just didn't get it, the Abhidhamma school. I'm sorry.

Yeah, okay.

[Speaker 2]
Stanley, what school is this commentary in? Is it Abhidhamma?

[Speaker 1]
This one is mine only. This one is mine only.

[Speaker 2]
It is, okay. Thank you so much.

[Speaker 1]
It's Stiramati, yeah. It's interesting because it seems like we're kind of transitioning between the emptiness of things to the emptiness of persons, to Kansaki dogma. Exactly.

Seems to be a pretty classical kind of way of thinking about emptiness, right? In between those two aspects. But it makes sense if these five hips are meant for that, because remember, in the history, many people became Arya right after these teachings.

Yeah, so for those people, I'm guessing they received a very deep emptiness teaching. Like for me, I received a very deep category teaching, how to divide things. But for different people, those who have great, great, great seeds, they have a deep insight into who they are, like me, what's me, what's a person.

And then they saw emptiness directly after that. It's unbelievable to think that way. Yeah.

Okay. My time for this part is finished. And then thank you for participating.

It's really fun to be able to talk about these foundational ideas, and then we go deeper into it. I believe that will set a good foundation for our later studies when Geshe-la comes back with Gausser Jay. And then we will notice we really need this foundation knowledge.

And then I requested to Nick that I want to do a little advertisement in this coming 10 minutes. So as I mentioned in the beginning of the class, I was doing Diamond Mining on Abhidharma, because we are doing a new program called Innovation Retreats. So we just started in June, and Geshe-la already gave two beautiful programs, teachings, one in late June, one in mid-July.

And then the first one is totally online. It's all theories of Innovation Retreats. We're not really asking people to do retreats, because the general idea we have for this program is the reason, number one, lots of the people in the world doesn't believe in retreat anyway.

So we need to talk to them about it first. So we spend a lot of time talking about the benefits of the retreats. Secondly, those rare lucky ones who have been doing retreats for some time, I'm not saying our group, but in general, in the world, doesn't really have a deep training of retreats, like systematic trainings.

As I understand, people like teachers like Ben Kramer and Venerable Upala did 14 years training before they went into their three-year retreats. So retreat, it's kind of deceptive, because it seems like it's easy to do. You just go to a place, and then you can start.

But it's not. It takes a lot of deep, deep and systematic training, and you need to do a lot of prep before retreats. So the first program we did is just theory.

It's pure theory. It's very fun. People are very excited, and it's fine.

They want to do retreat. We say, no, no, no, let's hear it more. Let's talk about it first.

So we did that for three days by June. We started in China. It will spread to different countries later, but we were just focusing on China at that time.

So 700 people joined the program, the first one. It's awesome. And then we did the second one, a deeper one.

By the way, we want to spread retreat as a daily, like a lifestyle. You don't have to be any person to do a retreat. It's like anyone can play golf.

Anyone can do vacation. Anyone can do retreat, particularly if you want to create an innovative mind. If you want to make the innovation as a more permanent mental function in your mind.

If you want to even make it like your sixth hip of a person, it's so good, it stands out all the time. Then the only way to do it is to make innovation retreat into a lifestyle. It's not just once in a year thing.

So the second time, which I'm going to show you a video about. Chloe, are we ready? Please let me know if you're ready.

We did the second retreat, innovation retreat program. We call it IR. We did the second IR program in Dunhuang, China, both in person and online.

Online, there's about like 300 people who joined. And then in person, there are like 63 or 64 people who went to Dunhuang with us. Dunhuang is the ancient caves where the first, the earliest printed book, the Diamond Cutter Sutra, the Chinese version, was founded.

It contains 50,000 different classics there. It's an important cultural treasure for us. To honor that, we did the second program there.

I want to play a short video for you so that you can view the program. And then lastly, I will talk about the coming one in Diamond Mountain, the first ever innovation retreat in September in Diamond Mountain, USA, Arizona, near Rimrock. Okay, can we play the video?

Is it ready? Or should I play it myself? Let me see.

Gina will be playing. Okay, Gina, can you play please?

[Speaker 2]
白天的蓝天跟晚上的星空是圆圈日当中很重要的对竞 用圆圈日来找到你的人生的方向跟目标 不论是阶段性的还是这一整辈子的 不论是短期的还是长远的 那同时你也可以用它来检查自己是否也偏离了你当初的梦想 你当初的愿景 你当初的初心 It's very, very powerful to do any retreat near the place where great people did their retreat.

[Speaker 1]
And I think if you are able to do this retreat this weekend at the Dunhuang location, you are very, very lucky. Why are all those caves there in Dunhuang? Because for many centuries, people went there to do their retreat.

Then your mind becomes much more quiet and you can hear great, great ideas because great, great ideas are often whispered. And I have to say one thing, to learn to hear the creative voices in your mind is the biggest fun thing in your whole life. Okay, I hope you can enjoy this video.

It's supposed to get you excited about retreats. You don't have to join this program, but if you can try some retreats in your life, that would be great. But you have to find a qualified teacher to teach you.

You can't just go to some forest or desert to make it happen. So talking about masters, teachers, qualified teachers, I'm very excited to announce that for the first time, we will do this special retreat, innovation retreats for any normal person like business people, academic artists, or different kind of anyone who wants to be more creative in a more sustainable way. It's good for your work.

It's good for your life in general. It's just much more fun and more successful if you can have this mental function working for you all the time, anytime you want. So Geshe-la and us as a team, we will do the first IR retreat in the southern part of Arizona, USA, the Diamond Mountain Retreat Center, in September 12th to 22nd.

I think the actual date is, it starts on the 14th, actually, 14th to 23rd September. And it's going to be like almost 10 days. And there will be Geshe Michael teaching in the program.

We will be meditating together. We'll do some great outdoor activities together. But most importantly, you will have three full days of silent, solitary retreats inside your own cabin in Diamond Mountain.

So we are doing an experiment. We are only limiting 30 seats in this program because there are about 30 cabins in Diamond Mountain. And we don't want to pack the cabin.

We want to make sure each single participant can have their own solitary place, space, during this program. So we are only doing a smaller group this time. But we will broadcast it to online.

So if you can't come, you are also very welcome to sign up for the online part. It's in general, I really encourage, if you're interested, to learn about retreats first before you do it yourself. I remember my first retreat, my first 10-day retreat, I spent like almost two months, like I would say like on average three to five hours every day for two months to study all the details.

There are a lot of things we need to know about retreats, particularly if you want to do deep retreats, it takes training. But the fruits are unbelievable. That first retreat that I did changed my life forever, ever.

Things happen that you can never imagine, like great, great new ideas came into your mind and you can't hear them in a noisy environment. We just need to get really, really quiet. And even your idea to understand classics will break through.

All these deep, deep ideas need a quiet and silent place to stay. So that's the program. It's coming in September and you're very welcome.

Right now we are only offering Chinese and English, two languages. So if you want to join this time, you have to either be able to speak Chinese or English. That will be enough.

You don't have to do both, either Chinese or English. And then you are very, very welcome to follow us. And then we will have more programs in the future and we will spread it to more countries later.

Okay, thank you. That's my part for today. And I'm gonna give it to, I guess, Nick.

Sure. Thank you Stanley. Thank you.

That looks amazing and beautiful advertisement. I'm sold and my English is pretty good. You need a retreat.

I know your life, busy life.

[Speaker 2]
It's all a retreat, I guess.

[Speaker 1]
Well, kind of.

[Speaker 2]
I think Juan is waiting patiently.

[Speaker 1]
So Juan, are you ready to bring us the latest? Sure, Nick. Thank you very much.

I'm here. Stanley, it's funny because I was planning to open the section talking about the innovation retreats. You did already great.

So no need to add anything. Maybe just in case people want to see the QR code again, we can show it. Just take the chance and go for it.

You can use your phone or something. Can you see me on the screen or no? Not yet.

Okay, awesome.

[Speaker 2]
I just want to say quick thank you to Stanley. That was a really great class. And thank you to, as usual, our translators and all our help at Worldview Productions.

And Juan, take it away.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, very well. So yeah, here is the QR code. You can follow the telegrams or WeChat groups if you want to deepen in the explanations or the information.

And yeah, you hear about it. Stanley already described very in-depth about it. And then Monday, we can keep reminding people about it and encourage you to participate.

I think it's going to be great. Geshe-la is going to be there as well. And it's a great opportunity to give ourselves the time to be there and learn how to hear these creative voices in our mind.

Lately, Geshe-la say that it's basically a multi-tool. I don't know if that makes sense in English, like a tool that can help you to fix any other thing. Because with creativity, you learn how to fix any other kind of problem, like financial, personal relationships, whatever your goal is.

If you're creative about it, then you can find answers for that. Speaking of Geshe-la, many of you may know he is these days in San Diego. He just went through surgery.

Apparently, everything went very, very well. He has been sharing with us some news on the daily mailing list that the Good Night Book Club is doing every day. He sends a little update on his work and a little bit also on his personal life.

So the surgery was successful. You can see him lovely walking in the beautiful beach in San Diego with Veronica. And we have, next picture please.

Yeah, you can see so beautiful. We are glad everything is going well. And we have one of our friends is there enjoying the sun.

Oh gosh, take that down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We want to talk to you and let us know what's going on.

Can you help us tech table to spot Tim, please? Yeah, just yes. Thank you.

How are you, Tim? I'm well. How are you, Juan?

Doing well as well. I'm also in the beach, but in Mexico. Oh, that's too bad.

It's wonderful as well. It's cool. It's really cool.

So the reason we wanted to talk to you is because, mostly because I think many people may be wondering how's Geshe-la doing? What's going on over there? And if you could give us a quick catch up on your experience being there, it'll be great.

How the surgery went?

[Speaker 2]
Well, everything went really well. Geshe-la was out yesterday walking on the beach. He was right over there translating yesterday afternoon.

And he was also working on the upcoming DCI Advanced Level 4, which is going to be released, I think, in December. So he's doing really, really well. It was a really minor surgery.

It wasn't anything a really big deal, but he does have to take a couple days of rest. And he doesn't really rest, as you know.

[Speaker 1]
He keeps pushing it. Cool, cool, cool. So how long are you going to be there?

[Speaker 2]
We're going to be here for another today, Saturday. We're going to leave on Tuesday morning and drive back to Arizona.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. So the plan is, you say Tuesday morning, that may mean that, sorry, Tuesday morning, Monday is going to be a team class. And hopefully, next Saturday, Geshe-la is going to be joining us in the next class, correct?

[Speaker 2]
That's what we think. Unless he still needs more recovery time, but I don't think so.

[Speaker 1]
I think he's ready to teach again. Awesome, awesome. Thank you very much for catching up with us, team.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, I do want to share one more photo, which is really gorgeous. This is them yesterday. Wonderful, yeah.

And it's like, it's really, really beautiful. It was really wonderful to watch them walking, you know, and watching the sunset yesterday. So he's doing well.

There's no need to worry.

[Speaker 1]
Awesome, awesome. Those are great news. Thank you so much for sharing with us, and we'll see again soon in one of the classes.

Thank you as well. Bye. Bye.

Also, for the last segment of today's presentation, in a few months ago, I was talking with Peter Mortel, some friends from Europe also, and they are doing a very, very wonderful project. This project is called 108,000 ARIA Project. What they are doing is like opening ancient wisdom groups all over Europe, mostly, and many different cities are doing like their own programs, their own schedules.

It's a very interesting project they're doing. A few months ago, we already presented some cities, but today we want to keep sharing with you an update of what's going on over there. For that, today we have one of their members, Max Zavalli, and we would like to have a conversation with him.

He's going to help us to catch up what's going on over there. If tech table, can you help me to spot Max? Is Max already around?

I'm checking if he's around. Can you raise your hand if you are in the Zoom? Just raise hand, and tech table will find you, hopefully.

Yes or no? If he is not here, I can present for him. Let me see.

Okay, I guess I'll start. Anyways, okay, so as I was saying, as far as I understand, they are opening many groups in many different countries, many different cities. For example, they have a group in Bulgaria, they have a group in Poland, they opened a new one.

In Kazakhstan, they opened a new one. They have one in Germany, if I did mention that before. Nizhny Novgorod in Russia, they have St. Petersburg, they have a group in Moscow. Many, many places are opening, and they are very excited to be able to, number one, working organized and spreading this ancient wisdom beautifully. Last weekend, actually, it was two weeks ago, they have a wonderful summer fest, like a wisdom party, summer fest. We talked about it, and today we wanted to present what's happening in two cities mostly.

One is Nizhny, and the other one is Moscow. For that, they share with us some videos we want to share with you and let you know a little bit of what's going on there. We'll show the first one here.

How to become absolutely happy? Perhaps you'll say that this is impossible. However, we believe otherwise.

It is quite realistic to have a lot of money and not spend nights at work, to build mutual love for many years and not be afraid of cheating, to be healthy at 50, at 70, and beyond. All this can be obtained with the help of our mind, thanks to knowledge that is more than 2,500 years old. Teachers from all over the country come to Nizhny Novgorod to teach how to manage reality and get everything you want in this life.

We transfer this knowledge completely free of charge. However, we need funds to rent a venue, print materials, and help our teachers with accommodation. We invite you to become a sponsor of our events.

Any amount would be highly appreciated.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you in advance and see you at the live courses of Enchantation Wisdom in Nizhny Novgorod, Russia.

[Speaker 1]
So that's the project in Nizhny. It's very cool because you know our friend Maria Mortal, Maria Kondratieva. She's from this city and for her and Peter, they have like a very dear, how to say, relation to this place.

They are very excited that it's happening there and as many of us have seen by first hand, these teachings, this wisdom can really transform our lives. So imagine if new cities are having access to this, like for real I like to see it this way, it's a big potential to start changing the world, you see, because I truly believe change starts within and then in our small circles, communities, but then it starts spreading out because of different reasons, conventionally speaking, and of course, ultimately speaking. So I think it's very beautiful to hear that this is happening.

We want to show you the next video, which is also happening in Moscow.

[Speaker 2]
Imagine you and I, imagine you and I on a mountain top, just above pure earth, right under the blue sky, half an inch away from our main goal on the path, that we go nearby the lights of the refuge glow. I envision a time where you and I will be at ease, where wind smells like sunshine and roses, welcoming the one who has directly seen all the causes and infinite confidence goes and grows. Imagine you and I on a mountain top.

Courses on ancient Tibetan philosophy were launched in Moscow in February 2024. As of today, two courses have taken place out of 18 foundation courses. They were attended by more than 100 people.

The events are held on sponsors' contributions. The cost of organizing one course is about four thousand dollars. By supporting the transmission of this knowledge, we are helping to continue and preserve the lineage of authentic Eastern wisdom transmission that empowers people to reach this peak of spiritual evolution.

[Speaker 1]
So there you go, that's a wonderful project in Moscow. And as I say, there are many more cities. Hey Max, how are you?

Hi Juan, good to see you. Thank you for promoting. Of course, and thank you for what you're doing.

Where are you these days, Vienna? Yeah, we are hiking in Austria, not in Vienna particularly. Wonderful, wonderful.

So I was telling people that just a few weeks ago you guys had this wisdom party, summer festival. The last time we showed a video, it was so wonderful. And also about this project of the 108,000 area project.

And that's what we wanted to hear from you. If you could give us a little update on the overall, what do you see happening, and where you guys as a group want to go next? Thank you, thank you, Juan.

So we organized those courses on ancient wisdom, and there are more than 7,000 certificates issued from our organization for those people who completed those courses. And it's a long trip. So we are really working hard to have 108,000 students.

Now we are more than 2,000. And I think we need maybe several decades more to get to the 108,000. And then we are done.

So this is our mission that 108,000 people will complete those courses on ancient wisdom, and they will have a chance to touch the diamond world. This is our goal. Thank you, Max.

And how many cities are you aware that are providing or part of this project these days? Thank you, Juan. And now it's eight cities, and we add in like three per year.

So it's going to be one new in Ukraine, in Lviv this autumn, and then early next year, two more in Germany. Okay, thank you, thank you. Very good.

Altogether 11. Awesome. So yeah, we already showed people the video because we were talking about Dnipro this time, and Moscow as well.

Can you tell us if you know anything like what has been the latest program, and if they are planning to do something soon in the next few weeks or months? Yes. So in autumn, in Moscow, there are going to be a new course, and it's going to be based on the wisdom on how to meditate.

So it's going to be very deep and very interesting course from ancient wisdom, Asian classics text that will explain and help people to go deeper in meditation. And I think in Nizhny Novgorod, it's planned for the second part of this autumn also to have a course on how to get ultimate protection in your life. So those are the two courses that are going to be handled in Moscow and Nizhny Novgorod this year.

Thank you very much, Max. Thank you very much. So we are excited and happy to hear that this is happening.

Congratulations to you and all the team, the wonderful team. Thank you for doing this. I was saying, telling people I truly believe it's helping the world.

And we are excited to keep hearing often what other cities are doing programs, what's the progress. So thank you for being here, sharing and reporting with us. If anyone would like to support these causes, that's why we are showing videos with QR code.

You can support the cause. You can donate if you want or just rejoice about the fact that it's happening. So thank you very much.

If anyone is interested later, we can get you the videos and we'll be talking with them again soon. For now, that's it. And we wish you all a great weekend.

See you next Monday. Thank you.