Бетси Грир — Книга 2: Интерлюдия о пустоте, занятие 63

[Speaker 1]
Good evening, good morning, good afternoon, or whatever time zone it is. Upala, sounds like you're ready to go. I'm getting there.

Sorry. Oh, sure. All right.

Take your time. Welcome to Xuanzang's Tower. And I'm really happy to be here with everybody.

And I see some old faces, some new faces. And as usual, I just want to thank everybody for coming. Thank you to our translators.

And thank you to our Worldview Productions team for keeping this all going. Keeping our stuff archived so beautifully. Keshe, Michael, are you here?

He may still be meditating.

[Speaker 2]
Yes, he's muted and thumbs up.

[Speaker 1]
Thumbs up. All right. He's muted and thumbs up.

Okay. Do you have a homework ready? I do.

All right. Whenever you're ready, take it away. Hey, Keshe, Michael.

Good morning. Buenos dias. Buenos dias.

Good to see you. Yeah, still walking around. Okay.

I'm looking forward to Venerable Upala's homework. Yay. Grandpa doesn't have to answer homework questions.

But he's always welcome to. Welcome to the quiz for the class we had nearly three months ago. Don't rub it in.

I'm sorry. Put on your thinking caps and engage your long-term memory. Or whatever the heck they are.

And let's give this a try. Okay. Okay.

So. We're in interlude to emptiness and KJJ is in the first part of this book. Where.

I mean, the book is about, you know, which. Which is the teachings that the Buddha gave. Are literal in which are figurative because we need to know.

Is literal because we need to see. Emptiness directly in order to get out of this wheel of suffering. So we're in the first part where KJJ has been discussing the mind only schools idea.

Of what's literal and what's figurative. We're nearing the end. It may be another few months, but still we're nearing the end.

We're going to jump into our inner garden. And the middle way idea. So.

KJJ. As you recall. Oscar probably does.

Has just finished. Why it is that a teaching of the Buddha isn't necessarily one. That is contained within one of the three turnings of the wheel.

Rather, he says, the determining factor for a teaching to be considered. One of the teachings of the wheel is that it's subject is. There's.

There's better silence in here than when we meditated. If it was the books I've been working on, it's dependence. And it's not that.

It's. It's selflessness or. Oh, okay.

Doc me. I was going to say emptiness, but it felt too obvious. Right.

And then emptiness isn't. Well, yeah, I'm not sure emptiness is correct. Right.

It would be selflessness. Yeah. Yeah.

So then someone comes along and says, hello there. You've. Forgotten about the exalted sutra requested by the king, the Lord of holding the Dharma.

Let me share with you what the Buddha himself said. What story. Does the Buddha tell in this.

That's. Anybody can remember that. Yeah.

We need to. Lindsay says the refining of the gemstone. That's great.

And so what is it about the refining of the gemstone? Sorry, I'm going to push just a little bit. I mean, he didn't just say there was a guy who, who purified gemstones.

What did he say? It's metaphorically similar to. No, no, no, wait, wait, wait, don't finish that sentence.

We're going to get to the end later. But just the story that he gives. What's your question.

Sorry. I was trying to answer. What story did the Buddha tell?

Not how did he link it to anything else? But what was the story? I, he told a story about how to clean gemstones.

That's all I know. Besides. Yeah, thank you.

Sure. So there's something in particular, this was a master jeweler. One who knew thoroughly.

The ways of purifying gemstones. And then he had a process that he goes through. Progressively and in three stages.

Working with a stone that's utterly unrefined. To reveal a precious, extremely valuable gem of lapis lazuli. So now, how does the Buddha relate these three stages of a jeweler's work to his own teachings?

You can talk about. At least for the first one, who it is he's. Who it is he's talking about.

I might not know it literally exactly what you have written. But in general, each one of the stages. Has to do with.

A turning of the wheel. And in this case, they're saying it's a progressive, meaning it goes. First, second, third, and the third one is the cleansing cleansiest.

Of the most refined. Great. I'm not sure that he mentions it all about the wheel.

He talks about three different like baskets of teachings. And he does talk about them being progressive. Okay.

With the shiniest bit. So he starts off to. Those who are, you know, totally enamored.

With life in the circle of suffering. And he teaches how this is suffering, how things are impermanent, how things are ugly and that sort of thing. And his goal is to get them into Arya ish.

Okay. And then not stopping with just that. He then taught the three doors of freedom.

To get them to understand the way. Who does exist. And still not stopping with just that he then taught about the three spheres.

And the wheel, which never turns back. In order to shove them into a good. Cool.

So I just have a brief question. Yeah. He doesn't mention it here, but I thought the whole point was this was supposed to be like metaphorical for the wheels.

Is it not? Well, we're going to find that out in my translation homework. Okay.

Perfect. Thank you. Great segue.

But first we have a couple of Tibetan words. Wonderful. And then, what does this phrase mean?

List out on the wheel. Yeah, right. Having a good time in since our.

I suppose there's no Tibetan equivalent to after that. There's, there's a lot to change. There's a lot.

Sheila. Hey, Sheila. That's one.

What's another. Yes. I suppose there's no English equivalent to wrong.

Doesn't mean we know it. Sure. Yeah.

Okay, good. Convenient. Hey, is that lapis or is that kyanite?

Oh, please. Well, Google said it was lapis. I don't know.

Like lapis. The photographer said it was lapis. It looks like kyanite to word.

Okay, so it's a metaphor for lapis. It's not literal. All right.

Excuse me. Oh, go ahead. You have a translation I think.

I do have a translation homework. If my computer will cooperate. Unfortunately computers do exactly what you tell them to do.

Not mine. Share. Yes.

Yay. Is that okay? Yeah.

Size wise. I think it's big enough right you guys. Oh, that's your problem.

Get one of your techies. Okay, we got technical problems here but that's okay. Can you please read Venerable Utpala?

Sure. I added in 393. You asked me to only do 394 but since we didn't cover this last teeny little bit from the story in the sutra, I should include it.

Okay. Okay. Okay, good.

Having entered and realized the nature of reality of the once-gone-dust, it's known as abiding in the status of unsurpassed qualities. Excellent translation. I have no comment.

Can you read the next one since the first one was so short? Yes. Okay, let me...

sorry, we're having some technical things here. These words that teach the Three Turns of the Wheel, ,GZHAN GSUM PA DI, Yeah, the GZHAN GSUM PA DI refers back to 393, just for your information. That statement means, ,KHOR LO RIM PA GSUM GYI RIM PA BZHIN, ,DE BA SHES PA YIN PA LA, ,BRJOD PA'I PHYI MA RAB PA DANG, ,KHOR LO RIM PA GSUM GYI RIM PA BZHIN, ,DE BA SHES PA YIN PA LA, ,BRJOD PA'I PHYI MA RAB PA DANG, The Three Turnings of the Wheel, respectively, nice, purify, the subtle, the gross, subtle, and extremely subtle, Okay.

Obstacles, stains of the obstacles. Okay. To the essence of the one god, thus.

Okay. So for this reason, only the last turning of the wheel is literal. ,SHES MA'O, ,SHES MA'O, Yeah, we don't know who SHES MA'O, but probably.

Okay. No, we do, because many, many months ago, some guy came and said, Wait a minute. He's still whining.

The wheels are not about emptiness, because the Buddha said this in this sutra. Okay, cool. All right, good.

I like the translation, it's nice.

[Speaker 2]
Yes, Michael, can I ask you a translation finesse question? When he says obstacles to the essence of the ones gone to bliss, and that seems a little bit...

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Obstacles to understanding, yeah. Yeah, I'd say the obstacles to understanding is okay.

Yeah, you could say that, yeah. It's okay even if it's not there?

[Speaker 3]
I mean, just because it's correct. You know it's correct, and so you know it's what it is.

[Speaker 1]
Personally, I wouldn't... Personally, I would just translate what's there, and at some point, but I would I would check another reference. I would search the sumbhum and see if anybody added anything else, you see?

Uh-huh. But you're right, it's a little bit strange to say things that obstruct the emptiness somehow. You see what I mean?

So, yeah, that's okay. Okay. But we'll probably figure it out in the next sentence, I think.

Okay, yeah. Oh, well, the next sentence is really going to be... Anyway, it's a good translation.

This is a good translation. Are you guys ready to... And I apologize that you seem to have hit all the days that I wasn't available to teach.

Generally, if I'm having a health problem, or like I'm having a surgery on Wednesday, so I won't be able to teach for a couple days after that. And if certain countries, if I'm in certain countries, I can't broadcast from there. So, this just happens.

Thank you, Michael. Any moment that you teach is a gift of more value than anything else I can imagine. So, everyone...

Sorry, that's the wrong... That's probably the wrong thing. Okay, hang on.

I hope your surgery is very successful. And painless. It didn't do what?

Okay. But why isn't the right thing showing in this game? It is for us, I think.

All right. Okay. Okay.

Is that okay for you guys? Can you read that? Yes, Ken.

[Speaker 3]
That's great.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. We can always zoom in from outside too. Okay.

Okay, here we go. Venerable Utpal, just for good luck, can you read this first sentence, 395? Yes, thank you.

DE'I RNAM PAR MA LTAG PA DANG KHYAD RLAMS KYEL BA YANG Yeah, this is pretty simple. It just says DE'I RNAM PAR MA LTAG PA DE'I RNAM PAR MA LTAG PA This RTAGS PA means what? Yeah, it means that you haven't checked things very carefully.

And it also contradicts what you said before. KHYAD RLAMS KYEL BA You are contradicting the things that you accepted earlier. I'm going to push this down so you can see the whole thing.

And Venerable Utpal, do you have somebody you'd like to read? Yes. Venerable Jigme, are you there?

She may be teaching. She may be on her bicycle. I heard that's a big thing.

[Speaker 3]
Hey, don't talk about me.

[Speaker 1]
I really am here. Okay, where are we?

[Speaker 2]
JITAR KHYAD RLAMS KYEL BA GSUM BYONG KHYAD KHOR LO GSUM GYI RIM CHEN DU BYONG BAR KHYAD LEN DGOS LA Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, good. So, JITAR SHIN NA VENERABLE UTPALA You may wonder how that's so. Yeah, how does that work?

And DE LTAR LAM Like this. According to that. Yeah, like that.

PAD DANG is a little bit difficult. It's PAD DANG DANG. When you apply the metaphor, apply meaning to the metaphor.

Metaphor and meaning. Or the literal meanings? PAD DANG always means the metaphor and what the metaphor refers to.

So what's the PAD in this case? The PAD is the jeweler. Yeah, it's the jewel, cleaning the jewel.

And the DANG is, we're debating, when the Buddha said this all compares to three steps to cleaning a jewel, what compares to three steps to cleaning a jewel? What is it exactly that compares? And there's an argument here about what is it that is compared to the jewel, cleaning the jewel.

And somebody says, CHOS BSTUN SBYOR BA NA If you were going to apply a correct explanation of connecting the metaphor to what it really refers to, and I believe this is still the other guy talking. NOR BU GCIG GNYIS A single gem itself. Yeah, so why do you think he said one single gem?

Why did he make a big point about one single GCIG GNYIS? Because now he's going to talk about, if it's the three turnings of the wheel, then that means that one single student has to go through all three turnings in order, progressively, in order to reach enlightenment. So this guy is saying that the metaphor does not apply to what?

Three turnings. Different groups of students. He says the metaphor is representing the evolution of a single student.

It's not three stages of addressing different groups of students. That's his position. The NOR BU GCIG GNYIS, GCIG GNYIS means only one.

One and only one. SBYONG RJE GSUM Three steps to purifying it. Three steps to refining it.

So you've got one jewel and three methods of purifying it. RIM CHEN DU You go through those steps one by one, and SBYONG BA, you purify or you refine the gem. Then he says, that's the BAS.

What's that? That's the metaphor. Now he's going to do the DON.

Now he wants to do the DON. That represents DUL BYA GCIG GNYIS, Venerable Upala. A single disciple alone.

Yeah, one disciple. Only one disciple. And in their RGYUD, or in their SEM, In their mind.

Yeah, in their mind stream, they have PHYI MAS, MLA, MLA. Yep, they have stains. They have stains, impurities.

And those are on three levels of... ARAG is like RING THUN. Three degrees of subtlety?

You say long, short, and it becomes the name for length. Here you say CHA RAG, subtle and gross, and it becomes the word for subtlety. Okay?

It becomes the word for subtlety. And their PHYI MAS of those students, the subtlety of their PHYI MAS are GSUM. They have three levels of impurity in their hearts.

And then you have the SBYONG. There's something which SBYONGs those impurities. Which purifies them.

And that's the Khorlo GSUM. Three turnings in the wheel. Three turnings in the wheel were meant to purify or clean out the obstacles from gross to subtle.

By the way, it's always from gross to subtle. In the hearts of a single student. And that's what the three cleanings of the jewel represent.

PHYI GNYIS DU SBYONG BAR SKYE LENG DGOS LA I take that to be the other guy. He's saying you have to accept this. You have to accept my idea.

And who's going to read Venerable Udpalaya? Venerable Gyatse, are you available? Hang on, she's going to come sit next to me.

Wait, wait, wait. No, no, no. Don't look at me.

I can't. I'm just offering. I'm just offering.

Thank you.

[Speaker 3]
DE'I THANG 397?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[Speaker 3]
DE'I THANG NA GONG DREL LAS KORN Korn?

[Speaker 1]
LAS KORN LO LAS KORN LO Yeah, slight penasal.

[Speaker 3]
LAS KORN LO GSUM GSUM GYI DUL JA DUL BYED RIGS THA DE BAR ZHES PA DANG RNGAL BA'I PHYIR THANG Okay.

[Speaker 1]
DE'I THANG NA means... if that's what the reference is referring to, the DMDZUL metaphor, if it's referring to one student and three levels of impurities in their heart, then what about DO DE GONG DO? What's that?

What about the sutra called What I Really Meant? What I Really Meant by the Buddha. Too intense.

In there, it says that the KORN LO GSUM...

[Speaker 3]
The three tonics.

[Speaker 1]
...were meant for DUL JA's of RIGS THA DE, of different types.

[Speaker 3]
Capacities.

[Speaker 1]
Or different capacities. Meaning three kinds of disciples, not one. Not the progressive impurities in one disciple's heart, but the impurities in three different disciples.

PHYIR DANG RNGAL RNGAL BA means you're contradicting What I Really Meant.

[Speaker 3]
Contradicting the Buddha.

[Speaker 1]
All right, cool.

[Speaker 3]
What are students going to say?

[Speaker 1]
We're getting there. Since that was so short, I mean... I totally agree.

[Speaker 3]
RANG KYIS KYANG DUL BYED RIGS THA DE DU MED PA DANG KAY LANG GAL SHING CHUNG DIN DE KYI CHUG KYI CHUNG DIN DE KYI CHUG KYI KOR LO KOR WEY CHE DU CHA WEY DUL CHE DUL JA YIN NA TEK PA SUM LAM RIM CHEN DON DUG PAS RGYAL PAR BRTEL BA'I PHYIR RO Okay, cool.

[Speaker 1]
Then we say, look, you yourself said something else earlier. You said, DUL BYAS means what? Disciples.

[Speaker 3]
Disciples.

[Speaker 1]
Come in RIGS THA DE. They come in different... You yourself said that.

MED PA DANG KAY LANG You said that. You accepted that. And now you are a gal, what you said.

Now you say it's one student with three kinds of impurities, instead of saying there's three different kinds of students. And moreover, the CHUNG DIN DE, Mr. Bhagavan, if someone, going backwards from YIN NA, if someone is a DUL JA, Disciple. CHE DU BYA, a very important phrase.

Purposely read for a disciple. Yeah. A student for whom a teaching was designed.

A student for whom a teaching was designed. CHE DU BYA means, if there's a disciple for whom the turning of the wheel was designed, one of the three turnings of the wheel was designed, was meant for them. What does that imply?

When you say the three turnings of the wheel were designed for students with specific needs, that implies it's not one student. It's not three stages of one student. DUL BYA YIN NA.

THEG PA GSUM LA RIM CHEN DU SBYUG PAS We're talking about teachings which are meant to apply to different yanas. YIN NA YANA, MA HA'I YANA, maybe even TANTRA YANA, something like that. Different vehicles.

KHYAB PA LTAL BA'I PHYIR You're contradicting that idea that the three turnings of the wheel were meant for three different levels of disciples when you say the metaphor refers to a single student going through three stages in their development. By the way, this has implications that are going to come up later on the theory, the famous theory in Buddhism of THAR THUB THEG PA GCIG. All paths lead to one goal.

Even non-Buddhist paths lead to one goal. They all lead to the same goal, which is a beautiful position to take. Who's going to read next, Venerable Upala?

Well, I see that Venerable Chunzang is in attendance. Would you like to read, Venerable Chunzang? Okay.

Is it too windy?

[Speaker 3]
Chunzang, do you need coffee? No coffee here.

[Speaker 1]
I'm in France. There's no coffee here. Oh, do you need a coffee?

No, no coffee in France. So which event did you win? Okay.

I don't know. You know, DEL MED DO is a typical way to end a sentence in a debate. And what does it mean, Venerable Upala?

What do you think, DEL MED DO? A couple of things are going to be mutually exclusive. Yeah, it just means you're discombobulated.

It means the things you're saying have no connection with each other. Okay, DEL MED DO. It's irrelevant to each other.

And then what? GZHAN YANG means, here's another criticism of you. When we say PHYIR MIN GDOG PA'I PHYIR GYI GOR LO BSTAM What's BSTAM?

BSTAM is an expression. Yeah, it can mean a conversation also, or a teaching. GOR LO means...

You can say the wheel of the Dharma. You can say Dharma Chakra. PHYIR MIN GDOG PA means...

Irreversible. Yeah, cannot be stopped. The unstoppable wheel of the Dharma.

ZHES PA NI When we say the expression that the wheel of the Dharma is unstoppable, it means... it refers to... and by the way, the ZER BA here, ZER BA doesn't always have to mean to claim in a false way.

Sometimes it can mean just ZHES PA, and that's what it means here. Okay, people talk about turnings of the wheel as indicating BAR DU THEG PA GCIG As one final vehicle. Yeah, in the end, all paths lead to the same goal.

You should learn that idiom. Say BAR DU THEG PA GCIG BAR DU THEG PA GCIG BAR DU THEG PA GCIG Yeah, and it's beautiful. In our debates, in the Geshe course, we started this Christianity, for example, and we were trying to decide whether BAR DU THEG PA GCIG and we thought that...

I remember the nights that we debated that, and we kind of thought that it indicates that all spiritual paths end at the same goal, which is kind of cool. you were... weren't you the guy talking about all paths lead to the same thing?

YIN LA But, doesn't the korlo tama the final turning of the wheel? Yeah, doesn't the... By the way, there's going to be a big debate about which korlo is tama.

Okay? When you say the last turning of the wheel, do you mean the one that was correct? Which is maybe the second one?

Or do you mean historically the third one to be taught? Which is the... So korlo taught the third.

When you say the final, what do you mean? So final turning of the wheel, does it... does it teach?

Does the final... What does the final turning of the wheel say about all paths leading to the same place? It says here, ultimately, take it soon.

There's three goals. There's three paths that don't lead to the same place. One of the three turnings of the wheel says that it's not true that all paths lead to the same thing.

One of the turnings of the wheel says, look, there's three paths and never shall they meet. And he says, that's the last turning of the wheel, but we don't know which is last. Is it the second one or the third one?

Got it? Well, the third one doesn't say that there are three, so it must be talking about the second. We're going to get there, okay?

Okay. gong tu shes sen means we already talked about that. And by the way, when Tsongkhapa or Gyatsobje says, or Ketubje says, we already talked about that, it's kind of an impatient thing to say.

It's like, we already talked about that. Therefore, your conversation is delme. First you say one thing, then you say another thing.

There's no flow between everything you're talking. Who's going to read next, Venerable Upala? Chloe, would you like to read?

She's jumping up. I thought she might. You're doing the ...

A little bit longer with an S. de na de na do de mi kang chung wala tang or mi she ki lang mi tak du ke ki lang mi tak du ngyel sok ten shin de ne cho ki tak me cha rak ni de ne ki jo cha ki lang ren ten du ten ne tre ma chung war ten pa sung in no Lovely, thank you. Stick around, you might have to read one more.

de na, Venerable Upala. Therefore, the sutra therefore... This sutra is talking about is talking about kam jung wa, and kam is a question here.

It's kind of meant here, the inside of the student or something. Yeah, like they're purifying... Yeah, purifying their inner tendencies or something.

This doesn't refer to the 18 dhatus or the 18 categories or something. It's talking about purifying the inside of the student. In that process, dang por, first, you have to expose them to the path, which is min je.

Which is what? Which ripens you? It's meant to take them up to a little bit higher level so you can teach them something more serious.

So min je means... It's meant to get them from zero to five, so they can go to a hundred. It's meant to ripen them.

Therefore, in the beginning, tang por, in the beginning of the process, we teach them these four principles. mi tak dun gyal. What's the other two?

tongpa. tongpa dakme. It could be a mantra.

mi tak dun gyal, tongpa dakme. mi tak dun gyal, tongpa dakme. Then you say it in a rhythm.

The four great principles of Buddhism. mi tak impermanence, dun gyal, suffering, tongpa, empty, dakme. How does the last two differ?

That's another point. Just to get students started, we teach them those four basic principles of Buddhism. In which turning?

In the first turning of the wheel. Initially, yes. Then...

By the way, this is a wonderful expression. I think I told you guys, if you have a monk who's really talkative, and you don't want to listen to them, you just keep working on what you're doing, and they go, blah, blah, blah, blah. When they run out of breath, you say, dun ne, dun ne.

Then they keep going. Then you can do your work. Then every time they run out of breath, you say, dun ne.

I'm teaching you something useful for talking to people. dun ne. After that, teach them chö kyi dung ne.

Lack of a self-nature to things. Yeah, the lack of a self-nature to things in its two forms. Both gross and subtle.

Yeah, and probably gross first, actually, and then more subtle. Teach them emptiness more generally, and then more closely. You could read this as umma and semsam.

What's that mean? Little way and mind only. Mind only.

Which turnings of the wheel? Second and third. You could read it that way.

Then you cover, in this first two lines, first two lines and a half, you cover the three turnings of the wheel. First teach them something that will ripen their mind from zero, and then give them the more gross... well, subtle and gross.

Now, why does Grandpa put umma and semsam, and why doesn't Grandpa put semsam and umma? Well, this is the argument we're having, isn't it? Right.

Yeah, in a way, the second turning of the wheel is more subtle, and the third is more gross. The third turning of the wheel, which is the mind-only presentation on emptiness, is defective. It's defective.

So we could call it more gross. And then the second turning of the wheel is more subtle, because it's correct. Got it?

Okay. Duryodhye kilam. The path which actually frees them.

Frees you. As a path. Rinje.

Ripens you. The first turning of the wheel just ripens them. The second and third turnings of the wheel free them.

And that's a common distinction.

[Speaker 2]
So it seems like he's implying that you don't want to put it upside down.

[Speaker 1]
Do the second turning. It could read it that way. Okay.

Rimchen. Now you've got to be careful here. You can't read it as lam rimchen.

You've got to say lam rimchen du. Okay. The rim doesn't apply to lam.

Rimchen du means step-by-step. And then lam means path. Okay.

So teach them those steps. And teach them how to thimma jung. How to purify their impurities.

Tsam. That's all. Now, this author of sentence number 400 is trying to say that in a way you could say that the metaphor of purifying the gemstone does refer to a single student's progress, maybe.

Or taking a group of students through these three steps. But tsam here means, it wasn't the main point to say these are, the main point of the jewel metaphor is not to say that it's three stages in the development of one student. Although we can say that there are stages of development of students being represented in the three turns of the wheel.

So he's saying, look, okay, I know it sounds like that, but it's not really. Okay. All right.

And who's next? Did you want to do one more? No, she wants to run away.

You got somebody else? Is Rebecca available? She just got back from her long retreat.

Yeah, I hear she's in the country. We have our people in LA don't wake up till noon. Oh, you're right.

Venerable Sunam, would you like to read? Yeah. Try to.

Sorry. SHERAB SHERAB CHI PAROL CHINPA CHEN DRING DUSUM DE DRING DUSUM SOKOLA TAMEN DO YIN NO SHES ZERO SHES MI THA DE Yeah, nice. Okay, now you gotta understand this.

NGES DON Okay? NGES DON NGES DON means what? As opposed to BYANG DON Yeah, what the Buddha really wanted to say.

What the Buddha really wanted to say. Okay, so generally the three turnings of the wheel, first you have a general turning of the wheel, no specifics about emptiness especially. Then you have a very specific turning of the wheel about emptiness, second turning.

And then in the third turning you clean up questions. It's called the you know yeah, making more fine distinctions. But in that explanation which one of the three turnings of the wheel would be considered the main one?

The second. Yeah, the third one is just cleaning up questions. And then the second one is the main turning of the wheel, okay?

So, kachig, somebody says, that when the Buddha said here's what I really meant, which represents the main book of the third turning of the wheel, and that's the one that Professor Gibson is going to be translating. In the DO DE BSGONG DEL, in the book called What I Really Meant, he says the only one I really meant was the last one. Okay, or it's only in the last one that he mentions the words, what I really meant.

Okay, got it? So it's only in the last one that he uses the words what I really meant, right? Therefore, it must be that the last turning of the wheel is what I really meant.

Because it's only in the last turning of the wheel that he used the word what I really meant. Okay, got it? You understand the argument?

By the way, at the end of this argument, who's the author? Kedarji? He says, che mi te.

F'ing wrong. That's horribly wrong. Che means big, big, big, big, big wrong.

With an S on it. Che with an S on it, which is slightly elongated. It's like, whoa, we need more.

That's the worst of the worst. First of all, understand that whatever this idea is, which we don't understand yet, it's che mi te. By the way, when there's an S, you have to lengthen it.

Che mi te. In a debate, it's a big difference if you say che mi te or you say che mi te. Che mi te.

That's unbelievably wrong. What he says, because the last turning of the wheel is the one in which he used the word that's literal, then that must have been the literal one. Got it?

nge den yin shing de na Therefore, sherab gyi par du chenpa geng ding du sum Therefore, the sherab gyi par du chenpa, the perfection of wisdom, in its ge version, ding version, and du version, in its large, medium, and small versions, it must be the tama korlo. It must be the final turning. Yeah.

The second turning must be the final turning. Because the third turning said what I really meant. What?

No, it's the difference between the final turning and the ultimate turning. Got it? There's a difference between ultimate turning and final turning.

Because the final turning wasn't the ultimate turning. The second turning was the ultimate turning. Okay, got it?

Like that. And we had to go take a break, you know? Go wash your face, come back.

Later, you know. We're like, yeah, okay. Because he's used the word literal only in the final turning of the wheel, that must be the one that's ultimately correct.

Literal. That means the second turning of the wheel is not the most correct one. But we can say the second turning of the wheel was the last turning of the wheel because it's clarification.

Because it's not the main one. Got it? We all know that clarification was the last one.

So he's playing here with the word dhamma, which means the final one, and then the real one. And they're not the same. Okay, got it?

So the final word was not the real word. In English we also say, who had the final word? But the final word in Buddhism was not the right one.

Okay, got it? There's a confusion there. And I think everyone's confused now.

Okay, all right. That's going to be so fun to translate, I've got to say. I'm kind of jealous.

Oh, I was going to say, I'm glad you're looking forward to it. Venerable Khading, would you like to read, please? I'm sorry I'm driving right now, but thank you for asking.

And thank you for teaching. Thank you for driving and not taking your eyes off the wheel. Let's see.

Bertha, are you available, or are you translating? She must be translating. Catherine Young, are you available to read?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, sorry, I'm translating. I'm sorry.

[Speaker 1]
Yay! Yay!

[Speaker 3]
401, right?

[Speaker 1]
401, yes. Yes.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 3]
TEN ZEN KUI LING TU TZAM BU'I TZAM BU'I LING TU CHUG GIS KHO LO GNYIS PA KHO BA MTHONG LO ZHES MED SO ZHES BYUNG BA'I CHER THAM Lovely.

[Speaker 1]
Very nice reading. Very, very nice reading. Congratulations.

By the way, we're about eight minutes from our discussion, which will be led by Venerable Uddhipala, about how can you use today's reading in your real life. So start thinking about what you might want to say or your ideas about that. Kind of the metaphor of the jewel with real life.

Okay, Venerable Uddhipala, YUM RGYAS PA As it says in the Mother... No? Yeah, the big one.

Yeah, the detailed Mother Sutra, which is probably the 100,000 verses, which is the largest one. In the more extensive Mother, Oh, okay. Prajnaparamita Sutra.

It says, they'd say... In that situation. Yeah, at that moment in time, there were sitting around lots of laibus.

Lots of divine youth. Yeah. Then they just pile up numbers.

They say 100,000 uncountable. Uncountable hundreds and thousands were sitting there. They took the mat-dongs and they tore them into the nam-kha.

And they took some flowers? Yeah, they took flower petals and they threw them into the air. Then they said all jade tumba.

All... In a single voice. Oh, in a single voice, that's nice.

In a single voice, they all yelled, Yay! Yay! Teng means teng du, teng tsam.

It means... It means nowadays, but in this case it means, we just heard in dzangpo ling. In the concept of dzangpo ling, the chog gi kor lo nyi pa.

The second turning of the wheel. Yeah. The Long Perfection of Wisdom Sutra says at the end of the book that when they heard that teaching they all threw flowers in the air and said, we're so lucky, we just witnessed tong o, the second turning of the wheel.

So don't tell me it's the third. Don't tell me it's the detailed one. Don't tell me it's...

Don't tell me it's nge dun. Oh, sorry. It can't be nge dun or something like that.

korwa she may so, she jungway che. It says it directly. In the sutra itself it says it's the second turning of the wheel.

So don't tell me anything else. All right. And moreover, one more.

Who's going to read that? I'm going to move on. We've got time for one more, I think.

Okay, Catherine Yang, you did such a wonderful job. Could you please read this last one? Yes, thank you.

bung je yang nge dung duk teo. te le nge dung duk she pay che kye pay kye lang su Nice reading. You guys are great readers.

So we say to this other guy, Oh, do de gong de. What I really meant must be nge dun. It must be literal.

And we go down because we're being sarcastic. nge dun duk teo Are you saying what I really meant is literal? Are you saying Are you saying the third Are you saying that the sutra where the Buddha said what he really meant and cancelled minomi and said, sorry, cancelled middle way and said minomi is the big answer.

Are you saying that was literal? Okay. And then the other guy says, well, why would you say that?

And we say de ne nge dun she That's where they taught what literal means. Got it? If a sutra teaches what literal means, does that mean it's literal?

Because if it does, then we should all be minomi. Okay. Don't do it.

Okay. So, you're the one that accepted that idea. You're the one who accepted that if a sutra talks about what's literal, it has to be literal.

And that's a crazy idea. That's a bad idea. We got time.

Utpala, why don't you read? Okay. DON NA SHES CAN NGES DUN DU SHES PA DANG RGYAL TE RGYI THAR RGYAL BA LA MIN KHRUL BA'I SEMS YOD PAR BRTAL PHYIR THAMS CAD BRTEN MED DU BRTIM PA DANG GZHAN DBANG BRTEN DRUB BRTIM PA DO NI GA NGES DUN YIN PA'I PHYIR RO Good.

DON NA means if you agree that the sutra, what I really meant, is literal because it's the first sutra to talk about literal, okay, then it contradicts the idea that what's literal is the shirchen. Is the perfection of wisdom. RGYAL TE RGYI THAMS CAD RGYAL TE RGYI THAMS CAD Because all the books say that the second turning of the wheel was literal.

If the third turning of the wheel is literal because it's the first book to mention literal, then the second turning of the wheel cannot be literal, but everyone says it's literal. Okay, got it? So it's contradiction.

Which one's literal? RGYAL BA LA MIN KHRUL BA'I SEMS YOD PAR BRTAL Oh, so there must be a sema which can be unmistaken when it accepts both sides of a gelwa. There must be an accurate perception.

I guess there's an accurate perception which can accept two contradictory things, right? And he's like, huh? And we're like, the third turning of the wheel is literal, but everyone knows the second turning of the wheel is literal, so two opposite things can be both literal, so I guess when you have a correct perception, pramana, that, I don't know, it's cold in here and it's hot in here, or the wall is white and the wall is black, then that's possible, right?

You can have a correct perception of two opposite things. Right? We're accusing him.

Why do you say that? Because THOD CHAMS RJE'I BSTAN MED DU STON PA Teaching that all entities are BSTAN MED BSTAN MED BSTAN MED teaching that what do you call it? Dominated entities, changing things, exist really, are the real things that exist, which is my knowledge school.

Those two sutras which teach that, one sutra which teaches nothing in the world has any real existence, and another sutra which teaches that changing things do have real existence, they're both MED DU They're both literal, according to you. All right? That's an old variant.

Yeah. Sorry. Okay.

Okay. All right? Hi Amelie, I miss you.

She's sleepy. Go back to sleep. Okay.

Now I know Amelie is a real student. Okay. I'm going to leave, Udpala.

We're going to have your conversation. Thank you so much.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
402 Yeah. 402 and 403. So 402 which I split, and then 403.

What is the beginning of the last line? I mean the beginning of the last section you want me to translate? 403 starts DINI NAM PAR DINI NAM PAR So you translate that.

Great, thank you. Okay, great. And I'm sorry we had such a long delay between classes.

All right, go for it. Thank you for coming back. Yeah, I'm having fun with it.

I enjoy this jewel thing because I understand it. Okay, which is a maingang. Okay.

There you go, you guys. Let me unshare here. I'm going to unpin myself so I can have a I mean so I can You can have a cinnamon roll.

Yeah. So like one thing that pops into my mind which is a rare thing so early in the morning that anything does but that to be careful when some people say that I don't know an example means one thing when it could mean different things or maybe it doesn't mean what they say it means or maybe it means that to them but not necessarily that it means the same thing to me. That's one thing I thought of.

What I'm going to do that I'm not entirely sure yet. Does anyone have some thoughts? Well, I think a lot about teaching in stages and what words can be used to help ripen you as opposed to what's the truth and particularly interesting in life when raising or when helping to raise a little one like this because I many times I cannot explain it would be useless or it would be counterproductive to explain exactly why or what I want her to do but I can explain things that will kind of help lead her to the place where she'll be able to understand and I think it is that right? Or not?

You're right. It's not right.

[Speaker 3]
That's not right.

[Speaker 1]
That I would explain something to you with the purpose of helping you understand something else. That's a good question. We'll get there.

Yeah. Actually with the cats that I'm sitting, cat sitting, that I have to lead them to I put out some food for them to get them to go somewhere else so they don't go into the room where they're going to hurt themselves because of what's in the room. So I kind of lead them away from I don't know, maybe kind of Yeah, I think it's an example of that.

[Speaker 3]
I would like to say I think that we should remember the pain. Where is the thing coming from? So when we deal with the situation like like what Venerable Upala said just now.

So how we think is coming from us. the safest way is the safest way is we connect ourselves with the 10 good things. The 10 good things.

So let's say sometime when we face a situation that we perceive our feeling our feeling perceived not that good. But we remember the pain. This feeling is coming from me.

And then when I, how we deal with that feeling is we just train our mind train our mind very intensively train ourselves to do the 10 good things like speak kindly to people not angry speak kindly and harmony like that. So even the bad seed ripen but we response with a good deed is very powerful because it purifies purifies the bad deeds and then we plant another good deeds for our future. Thank you.

Olga, would you like to share something? Don't believe what we perceive because it is just pain. This is what I want to say.

Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Sorry. Thank you so much.

[Speaker 3]
Hi. Sorry my camera doesn't work. Can you hear me?

Yes. Okay. One interesting thought that came to me while listening about the difference between final and ultimate that if something is final it doesn't necessarily mean it's ultimate.

[Speaker 2]
And that's a good lesson for or a good idea for those people who like arguing for example and like to be the final one to say the final word.

[Speaker 3]
Because even if you win the argument it might not be the ultimate word and the ultimate truth. Yes. Many an argument I've just walked away from at some point.

Yes. What is the point we win the argument? What is the point we win the argument but we plant the bad seed?

Right. No point. Hmm.

That's great. Thank you Olga. And also I might add to that is that another idea came to me about same thing.

We tend to the translation of the word ultimate into Russian for example we tend to translate it actually as absolute. This word has several meanings in Russian like final absolute and some others and we thought that it's more like absolute but actually now after this lesson I start doubting that we chose the right translation. So may I ask your opinion in this other all the other lessons and context in our where Geshe Michael uses this word ultimate does it have more connotation of final or more connotation of absolute?

[Speaker 1]
Oh. This gets a little bit tricky because the highest school of Buddhism I mean there's basically nothing that's absolute. Ultimate is gives this connotation of highest that nothing could be higher nothing could be greater nothing could be better the ultimate ice cream you can never find any other ice cream on the planet that would taste any better than that.

The ultimate truth there's no other truth that exists that could get you out of the wheel of suffering.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah so it's kind of more like final final the finalist final.

[Speaker 1]
So final in the sense of ultimate yeah final not in the sense of last in a progression of first to last. Because we have these same problems I mean in English when does final mean last and when does final mean best most correct?

[Speaker 3]
So ultimate in the sense means more like most correct?

[Speaker 1]
I would say ultimate would mean like the highest expression of whatever it is you're talking about. Like whoever won the gold medal and broke a whole bunch of records when they did so. Like that gymnast from the United States.

Like she's the ultimate gymnast right now. Female gymnast did someone say? I'm not sure.

I didn't hear. I have one plugged ear so I'm having a hard time hearing. I think you said right now.

Right now. Oh yeah sure. So does anyone have any other pearls of wisdom that they gleaned from today's discussion?

Or even if they're not pearls of wisdom but like I don't know questions that come to mind. Or just anything you'd like to talk about other than the weather. I guess I'm just questioning where I'm at.

How to use this as a tool for bringing myself along. I have a kid of course to try to teach as well and then many of us are trying to learn to be teachers. But the person that I have in my care most often that needs the most help is of course myself.

[Speaker 3]
And I don't know. I don't have anything very clearly formed.

[Speaker 2]
I'm sort of trying to think about where I am in this strata or schema or system of views and the way sometimes I I don't know sometimes I think of things as realer than they are and sometimes I need that to help me. I guess I look around the world. I look around the room and I see things.

I see objects. I see my hand. I see things seem real but the idea of Ben that's weirder.

It's one of the weirdest things about the world that as much as the objects in front of us are always changing. The one thing that is supposedly always there that should be the most consistent which is the person looking is the one I'm the most confused about. Hard to see.

Hard to understand. Now objects are just as unreal but they seem I don't know at least on some days those seem more real to me and I feel more mystified and confused by who is me and sometimes that helps me. Sometimes that helps me like the things in front of me the people in front of me.

What is to be done can be more obvious and I can accomplish things. I can help people. I can help the people in front of me without having to worry about who the heck Ben is.

I don't even see that. It's not that it's less real than objects.

[Speaker 3]
Some days it feels that way though and some days that helps me to stop fretting about Ben's needs. I don't really understand even who the heck that guy is.

[Speaker 1]
So maybe you created this because when karma ripens or when seeds ripen it's not right away. We could, I mean we actually do not ever see ourselves helping anyone else. There is no helping anyone else.

Impossible says Nagarjuna, right? But we've created a situation in which we see ourselves helping other people so we can give ourselves a little break from the from thinking about who we are. Who is this need?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, right. It makes me think about the difference between doubt and lazy doubt. All these questions are wonderful and keep all these questions in a good sign of what's the difference between fretting the right amount or fretting too much, questioning the right amount or questioning too much is am I doing something today?

To keep questioning the right amount to keep questioning and keep doing because people yeah, they need you. They need us.

[Speaker 1]
They need our help. They do. And there's no such thing as the right amount.

There's just the amount that we do. So I've eaten well into dear Juan Hasso's time with the Peachtree World News. So thank you so much for participating in class and I see there were more hands raised so please think about these things for next time.

[Speaker 2]
Hello. Should I proceed? Does anyone need?

Okay, thank you so much. Glad to be here now today reporting from beautiful San Pancho, Mexico. I had the great fortune to be able to make a family trip.

So mom, dad and the rest are around. It's exciting to be here. But still we have of course very exciting news and events to talk about.

First of all, I would like to remind you that still you have a chance to go to Sky Harvest 2nd edition which is about to start on the September 2nd. You still have like two weeks to make your final decision, make the arrangements and remember they are supporting you if you want to go with so much aid like all kinds of things. They're going to provide the accommodation, the education, the activities, even the transportation if you really need to just talk to them.

You can make it. It's going to be very cool. There is going to be also meditation and yoga and philosophy teachings.

Hopefully a very, very cool event. Okay. In some other news, last Monday we had a very cool interview with some of our Mexican friends who are helping the people in their last days of life.

These people who are sick and are getting ready to make their transition with this palliative care institution happening in Guadalajara. They want to expand to all Mexico. And because of Monday, you know Asian audience is the big one in this show.

We just want to also share now a very short video that we prepared last time and show the correct QR code in case you want to support or help. So let us show the video we prepared for you and then we keep moving with other news. Music Music Music Music Music Music So there you go.

Last Monday we had an interview with Berta and with Chachis. And they were both telling us everything they are doing to support people including like providing nurses, providing medicine, providing health to the family who's trying to take care of people. And soon we're going to keep talking about them to hear more about what they are doing in the next few weeks.

But then we were encouraging people if they want to support. So here's the QR code just to know you follow the QR code link. You can use PayPal.

And in the next picture it's just a picture you can click where it says Dona which means donate and it's going to take you to the next page where you can choose PayPal. And just for you to know it's in Mexican pesos but one US dollar is about 18 Mexican pesos. Any help is really greatly appreciated.

They are really really helping people. And they are expanding. They are trying to expand to whole Mexico.

So thank you Berta. Thank you Chachis for all that you're doing. And soon we'll talk to you again.

Okay. Different news. We're going to go to YSI.

They are having a very busy week and a very busy month. To remind you that every Monday our friend Benji is guiding hard yoga practices 7.30 a.m. to 8.45 a.m. So every Monday he's doing that. If you follow the QR code you can go to YSI website and then research on more details of all these upcoming events they are having.

So that's on Mondays. But then on Wednesdays Errol is guiding meditation classes following the nine stages of meditation. And this is also happening every Wednesday.

Next one is upcoming Wednesday 21st. Same time. 7.30 a.m. to 8.45 a.m. He's a great meditator. I have had the chance to attend to some of his classes. I really recommend them. Sending best regards to Errol.

And then also a little later in this month they are having certification on Lady Niguma Level 1. This certification now it's also linked with Yoga Alliance. So if you take this kind of certification you can certify for Yoga Alliance teacher as well.

Then they are having the Drops of Wisdom with Saverina on September 4th in about two weeks from now. It's the same. 7.30 a.m. to 8.45 a.m. And then finally on September 7th Errol is going to be having his session on the Inner Kingdom. This series, very cool series based on the teachings that Geshe Michael thought when he was doing his own three year retreat. Very very priceless. Then speaking of Geshe Michael, just to share with you that he has been teaching lately the DCI Global Advanced Level 4.

It's a very revolutionary course. It's based on how to double the title I mean is how to double your productivity with daily wisdom AI. And I got some very exclusive pictures of himself teaching in the last few days.

So he's preparing very cool material and we hope soon it's going to be a great great great success. Also not only that but he's teaching some content on the Peacock Parenting Program which is the next picture. Yes.

This program is run by Noor, Seyi and Maitri mostly. And as you can see Noor is getting very very good practice on how to parenting using the Peacock Wisdom. The wisdom that wants us to reach our highest potential in order to help other people do the same.

So here is Maitri and Noor having fun. And if you're interested to know more about this project you can follow the QR code that we have next. Yes.

There you can sign up for a mailing list where you can start getting information on their program and their content. Cool. Now also a reminder that for all of you who want to improve your skill sets especially on computers or tech skills Brian Mendoza designed this special website.

It's like a website that contains video trainings or trainings that allow you to use many different digital tools like Zoom or other design programs, video editing and the interesting thing that I find about this is that it's specifically designed for the needs of the worldview organizations. So if you're interested to learn more and put these skills into the service of any of the worldviews, I really encourage you following this QR code. You will have to register there.

Don't worry. It's totally free. It may give you a little notification that you have to pay but the amount is zero.

It's just for registration purposes. Don't worry. Just follow it, register and you can get access to all the videos.

I have myself registered to it so I'm a little familiar with the process. You can do it. If you have any questions, you can text us or Brian or me.

No problem. We can help. And finally, we would like to share very good news that just happened in Austria, in Vienna this last week.

From August 10th to the 15th, there was a very cool event happening organized by many of our friends over there. Some of the teachers there, Peter Mortel and Maria Contratieva, Maria Mortel Contratieva, along with others like Mats Zabeli. And we want to share a little bit of what they did.

We have a special video for you. Check it out. Very, very cool event.

[Speaker 1]
How do we cope

[Speaker 3]
in a world without love

[Speaker 1]
Mending all those broken hearts and tending to those crying faces

[Speaker 3]
There must be more to life than living There must be more

[Speaker 1]
than meets the eye Why should it be just a case of black

[Speaker 3]
or white There must be more to life than this Why is this world so full of hate People dying everywhere And we destroy what we create People fighting for their human rights But we just go on saying

[Speaker 1]
Salami So this is why There must be more to life than killing A better way for us to survive What good is life If in the end we all

[Speaker 3]
must die There must be more to life than this

[Speaker 1]
There must be more to life than this

[Speaker 2]
Thank you very much. Enjoy your weekend. Thank you, Nick.

You want to share last words?

[Speaker 1]
Just thank you, Juan, and thank you, everybody. And I look forward to seeing you again on Monday.

[Speaker 2]
What's up, Rob? Hi. Do you want to share last words?

No. Okay. See you soon.

Please give us more pictures of Pancho. Okay, cool. I'll do something.

Bye.