Бетси Грир — Книга 2: Интерлюдия о пустоте, занятие 62

[Speaker 1]
It's probably CrowdStrike. Perhaps. So we were discussing 45,000 years ago.

Oh, that picture of me. Ah, nice. It's from about 45,000 years ago.

Classic. Back when Ben and I were mere children, wandering around and debating in the desert. 45,000 years.

Wow, you've been around a long time. Back when I was young and not just immature. Well, lovely to see you all.

Welcome to Schwenzong Tower. And from the top of Schwenzong Tower, we will broadcast to you this lovely class today. You ready, Venerable?

I'm here. We shall see how it goes. Oh, I didn't know you had a cat.

I saw that. I saw a cat sneak by in the background. Even blurred.

I did. That's very charming. Yes.

I'm taking care of Rebecca's cats while she's in retreat in India. Oh, that's delightful. It's like I see our Romanian contingency.

Hello. Okay. So welcome to yet another installment of an interlude on emptiness by K.

Drip J. And as those of you who have been around, know that for it seems like years now, we have been well, so K. Drip J's book is about, okay.

We know that emptiness, seeing emptiness directly, seeing the nature of reality directly is the only way to, to get us out of this realm of suffering. And so we really should understand what the Buddha meant when he talked about emptiness. And the thing is he talked about emptiness or the nature of things in different ways.

So which way should we take as literal? And which ways are figurative or need some interpretation. And we have been for years now in the school of mind only.

So the charioteers, master Asanga, Arya Asanga and master Vasubandhu, do you say came up with this idea of the mind only school? This is how they described what the Buddhist teachings meant. And we talked to K.

Drip J talked about the three turnings of the wheel. And from the mind only school perspective, the first and second turnings of the wheel are figurative. And the third is literal.

And if you recall the first turning of the wheel is basically the Buddha taught about say the four are your truth, the truth of suffering, the end of suffering, the path of suffering, and impermanence, karma. And then the second turning of the wheel, sort of exemplified by the heart sutra, form is emptiness. Emptiness is form.

That everything is empty. And then the third turning of the wheel is making fine distinctions between what does not have a self nature and what does have a self nature. So the mind only school followers hold that the third turning is literal.

And the other two are figurative or need interpretation. K. Drip J is wrapping up his discussion of the mind only school's perspective on the three turnings by bringing up again, the topic of the three turnings.

And so a couple of months ago, when we entered into this last section of the main part of the book, the first part of the book, sorry, the last section of the first part of the book, which is the mind only school. He brought up again, the three turnings and he quoted from Lord Buddha. Now, does anyone recall what it was that he quoted?

It has to do with the three turnings. And it was a definitive source speaking about how we can talk about the three turnings, basically what they are not and what they are. Why are they divided into three?

So are they divided into three because of who was in attendance? No, no. Very good.

Thank you. Whoever said that, are they divided into three because of the age of the Buddha when he taught them? No, no, no.

Very good. They are divided by. Subject.

Subject. Yes. What he taught.

Thank you. They are divided by subject. So KJJ says, okay, so this definitive source, which happens to be the Buddha has told us that it doesn't have to do with who was in the room.

It doesn't have to do with how old I was when I taught it, but it has to do with the nature of reality. The subject matter being taught. So, sorry, Jiki is really wants to be a part.

She really wants to understand these teachings. Unfortunately, she's not in a body where she can do so. Jiki is the cat, by the way.

So KJJ gives this quote by the Buddha, and then someone comes along and says, wait a minute. We need to talk about this. And this person relates a story in a sutra.

So it's also a teaching by Lord Buddha. And it presents a metaphor. Cleaning gems, right?

So there are three. So a master gemologist knows how to refine stones. Sorry, I'm going to, you'll have to just excuse me being continually distracted by a crying kitten.

So a gemologist knows how to refine gems. First, they bathe on refined stones in very highly corrosive acid, and then brush them with, with course, with a brush of a cloth of course, black hair, but they don't stop there. Next they bathe it in quick silver.

And scrape off impurities with a piece of wood, but they don't stop there. They wash the stone in aconite. And polish it with a super fine cloth.

And through this process, they separate out the rock crystal from the precious stone. And you're left with a beautiful stone of lapis lazuli. So, okay, Lord Buddha, that's interesting that that's what gemologists do.

But what does that have to do with, you know, why I live in, in a suffering world? So the Buddha said, so can anyone help me with this? What is the first round of cleaning by a gemologist?

What does the Buddha relate that to in this particular sutra? Strong acid. I'm sorry?

Strong acid. Strong acid? Strong acid.

Right. So by using this strong acid, it's like when the Buddha taught. Life is suffering.

Right. Well, we shouldn't make that jump yet. That's what our opponent is going to do is, is make the jump.

So he taught, he says that first, when you have your totally unrefined students, you need to teach them that they're suffering, right? That they may think that they're going after happiness, but they're, they're suffering. They're, they're sort of stuck in this realm, right?

And also impermanence. And they, the Buddha says they don't stop there. Second, what's the second thing that they teach?

Has to do with the three doors of freedom, emptiness, signlessness, and wishlessness to get the students to grasp how it is that Buddhists exist and they don't stop there. But then thirdly, what do they do? This one was quite abstract as if the others, you know, anyway, they, they shove disciples into a Buddha paradise.

By teaching the instruction of the three spheres from the irreversible wheel. So that's where we left off last time. So I guess let's go to the text.

Exciting. I'm glad someone's excited. Yay.

Which one are you seeing? I'm seeing the notes that I think you just delivered. Oh, okay.

I need to stop because that's not what I selected. Crowdstrike again. I'm sorry.

It was probably Crowdstrike. Zoom's got it out for us. Oh, I'm going to keep making that joke.

You wait, we'll see how many more times I can get it in. Where is the text? I'm sorry.

It's okay. I have too many copies open. I have to close some because they all look the same.

You know why? Please. Don't say it.

I don't know. I'm so sorry. Okay.

It's a nationwide issue. Global even. Yeah, that's not it.

This is occurring on my computer and no one else is what they want you to think. No one else. Okay.

So now there should only be two. I should be able to find it. Why is it showing all of them?

Okay. I feel like this is what you wanted to show us. It starts with three 93 at the top.

Yeah. Success. Okay.

I can't keep you down. So, so as you recall, this is our, this is some, some person who comes and says, wait a minute, Kate of J here's this sutra. So this person is still speaking.

Let's just keep that in mind. So would someone like to read this stanza for me, for us? Venerable Kelsey.

Three 93. Yes, please. Let's do this.

I'm a pay you. Me. Thank you.

Thank you. So the first thing I do is I look for something that will help me split this up into chunks. to better understand it, so I notice there's this ni here.

So I'm going to take what comes before the ni, and it looks like there are two things that come before the ni, because there's a ching here, which means and. So we've got shukpar gyur, and dish and shikpe, oh sorry, shinni tokpa, and then we've got this na. So that all goes together, and then we've got lana mepe yinni she jyutto.

And so this gives us our verb. It's known as, or it's spoken of as, whatever the it is. This is probably the it, right, what comes before the ni?

Sorry, Mike. My mouse is deciding to be whatever that state was that Ben is talking about. So shukpar gyur, having entered.

Sorry. Oh my goodness. Dish and shikpe, shinni tokpa.

So having realized, having entered and realized teaching of those gone thus. The nature of the reality of those gone thus. That is, so that's a quote marker, right?

Yes. So it's known as lana, geez. Whoops.

Yeah. Oops. It's got to have that too.

Boy, oh boy. No problem. I will not give up.

Don't give up. Lana mepe yinni. So it's known as lana mepe yinni.

So lana mepe, or lana mepe. Matchless. Matchless or unsurpassed.

And yin. Something like a gift. Quality.

Yeah, quality, short for yinten. And ne here. Did someone say something?

Source. Source. Or the state.

So it's known as the state of unsurpassed qualities. When you realize the nature of the reality, when you have entered and realized the nature of reality of the ones gone thus, that's known as the state of unsurpassed qualities. That sounds cool.

Yeah. And that's actually the last part of the sutra. So this year is the ending of what Lord Buddha was saying.

So now our, I don't know if we call opponent or a person in the room is going to explain why they brought this up. It was, do we know what is meant by entering here? So the place or the state of unsurpassed qualities is realizing the truth of the ones gone thus.

And then you're entering. Did I space on what that was or do we know yet? Maybe it is here.

We have remember that the Buddhas were like shoving people into a Buddha paradise. Thank you. And it's an inter shove them to enter to a Buddha paradise.

Yeah. The Duke is the shook. It's the same.

It's just a different tense. Yeah. That's great.

Yeah. That seems right. Cool.

So entering a Buddha paradise and realizing the nature of the ultimate nature or something in the ones gone. Yes. Yeah.

I can barely hear you, but I probably agree. Okay. Let's see.

Ana, I see you there. Would you like to read this please?

[Speaker 2]
Sorry, we are many devices in the same time in the same place.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, I see.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. So I left that space. So there She sung Pandi called Coral Rinpa.

So I'm getting by. She part shake me. They were shake me.

[Speaker 1]
Nymphola drip pain. Three. My rock part tongue.

Chowa. Tongue. I always have problem with that.

Can you help me? Yeah, it's the same as this one. So that the saw and the rock are silent.

Great. Thank you so much. So our person says, okay, what here's what these words teach.

So we've got Coral Rinpa or just to say Coral. And that's no, let's do all of them. The three turnings of the wheel.

Yeah. Thank you. Progressively.

Right. Successively or progressively in sequence or respectively, which one is it? I think he's going with when we look at the rest of it, I think it's with it's successive.

But that's very good point. They were shake me. The essence of those gone to bliss.

Yes. The essence of those gone to bliss. The stains of obstacles.

I'm sorry. Those stained obstacles. I think it would have to be technically the other way around to be stained obstacles as opposed to obstacles.

Obstacles stained. That makes sense. Dream is stain and Dupa is obstacle.

Stains. So there's stains of obstacles or the obstacle stains. No, the subtle, the subtle, the gross and subtle stained obstacles.

And very subtle. Yeah, we've got a stain. Obscure.

Right. So we've got rock path and trauma and do trauma. Doc is just a pluralizer.

Right. So we've got subtle and very subtle. Right.

And what are we going to do? Yeah. So it's a teaching.

So the three turnings of the wheel are taught successively or in sequence to clean away the obvious subtle and extremely subtle stains of the essence of the stains. That's perfect translation. You're going to get us all fired.

Yeah. So, and because of that teacher the last turning of the wheel itself is the definitive meaning literal one. Right.

End of quote. And then this is like, this is ending this whole section of what the opponent came to say. So they're saying that this sutra, this metaphor that the Buddha gave is talking about the successive teachings of the three terms and that the last turning is the one that's definitive.

So like pretty good until they get to that cleaning a gemstone in three progressive stages, these three progressive stages, these three turnings of the wheel progressively clean us of first our gross, then our subtle and then our most subtle impurities. Right. Does anyone have a problem with that?

Or does that sound kind of good? The mind only doesn't have a problem with it. Yeah.

Yeah. Middle way might have a problem with it. Well, KJJ now comes back into the picture.

It's an interesting question about I know it's a minute point, but we're minute nuts and the word offered potentially the word respectively as opposed to successively. And it has a vibe of successively. But also if we're rejecting the idea that the three wheels are necessarily successive, then there is some ambiguity there about whether they happen in order or whether they're more relation in relation to the three types of severity of obstacles.

Yeah, that that does that would seem to eliminate like one problem that you would have to go through all three turnings to the wheel. But let's see what KJJ has to say. I bet it'll be clever.

Hey, Ling, would you like to read, please? Lovely. Thank you.

I just I really like KJJ. So Danny, this is utterly inscrutable. And I'm sorry, did someone say something?

Someone said what? I don't know if unscrutable is too inscrutable. Unscrutable is not very well.

Can you describe that? So Takpa is to examine, right? Yeah.

And the Ma is negative. So you could say and Nampar is like totally. You could say it's something like it's as if you didn't even look at what you were saying.

So totally examined. Well, it's more than just not examined, because that would mean you didn't look. But it's like you totally messed it up.

Your examination is all convoluted. Yeah. He says KLG and KLG.

Thank you. And it even young KLG. It contradicts your own assertions.

Yeah, that's nice. Just remember that Ma isn't necessarily just negative, but sometimes means contrary. So we could say meaning unexamined or you didn't think about it.

But Ma can also mean you thought about it wrong. Yeah. You were anti thinking about it.

Or one could say stained thinking about it. Yeah, sure. Especially in this context, that'd be cute.

Okay, great. Thank you. I'm sorry.

It's hard for me to see people of who's here. Venerable Khadrin, would you like to read, please? Yeah, I'm not sure that I'm reading right, but I can try my best.

This is Pe. Thank you. Lovely.

Thank you so much. Thank you. And if you wonder how that's so, or why I say that, I guess you could say.

According to that, I guess let's just kind of go through the words and then try and put it together. So we've got this example, example in the meaning. So we've got our metaphor and what it relates to.

Right. So that's what we're talking here. When you apply the meaning to the metaphor or the example.

Okay. So we've got our Norbu. Who remembers Norbu?

Jewel. Jewel. Right.

So, a single gem itself, or only a single gem. Purifier. The process of purifying.

Yeah. And we've got the three, right. Yes.

And by that, Rim Chen. And here, I think we can say it's progressively. It's here to be progressively Jongwon.

Cleans. So just as a single gem itself is cleaned through the progressive, through applying the progressive process of cleaning. Right.

So just as that, then we've got Dulja Chikni and Dulja Disciple. So just as with a single gem, we have a single disciple. And what about that single disciple?

The mind stream. Right. The mind stream of a single disciple.

And we've got our gross and subtle stains. And extremely Shintu. Three degrees of subtlety of stains.

The process of cleaning. The progressive three turnings. Nice.

Jongwon cleaning. You gotta accept that. Right.

You must assert then that just as a single gem is purified through this process of cleaning in a progressive way, a single disciple, the three degrees of subtle stains in the mind stream of a single disciple are cleaned through the progressive three turnings. Is it time to talk about this yet? No.

Okay. Could be. I mean, I think as long as it's clear to people, but I think so far straightforward.

We set this up together, right? If you say that these three applied to one another progressively, then you must be saying that the three forms of obstacles are also progressively cleaned. It's kind of cool.

I mean, we'll see if it pans out, but I'm hoping that Kdrup J is having the same debate that we were having amongst ourselves about progressive versus respective. Well, in a way, in a way. So let's see what he says next.

I mean, I think in a way, right? I mean, I really won't know until Geshe Michael returns to teach me this text. It's fun for us all to be prepared for that.

I think we all go slowly through it together. It'll be fun. I mean, it'll be fun to see if we're right.

Sometimes it's especially fun to see where we're wrong. Oh, that's the best, right? Ms. Uta, would you like to read, please?

Oh, yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

Lovely. Thank you. Thank you very much.

So detana, in that way. Therefore. Therefore.

The sutra on what I really meant, probably. Yep. Sorry.

Chiki's really wailing again. So this is our subject, right? And here's our verb.

So the sutra on what I really meant explains as the three turnings of the wheel for different classes of students, right? The three turnings of the wheel are for different types of students. Did someone say something?

And then we end with YH here. Because this contradicts. See what contradiction they're talking about.

Yeah. Does it contradict? Does it contradict to the explanation?

Because tangala is supposed to be together. It is together, sorry. Yeah, it contradicts.

Yeah, he's saying the explanation that it's successive contradicts that Gondrel says that for three different types of disciples, not as opposed to successively rimchen. Yeah, and they specified above that it's in one disciple a couple of times. Right.

That's true. Right.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, great.

[Speaker 1]
That's not all. Okay. Are you here?

Okay. Hi. Lovely.

Thank you. I bet Adam and Ben are very excited to see this. Oh, I get extremely excited when I see it.

And what does that mean, Adam? Well, are you saying that's not necessarily the case or that it is necessarily the case that it's like this? Well, there's no makyap, so yeah.

It must then follow that, right? You would have to be saying then that necessarily it's this way. Yeah.

Okay, good. So what is it that he's saying? They're saying that they probably are not going to agree that that's what they're saying.

The explanation of the Gondrel was contradictory. Right. So Rangikyam, even your own.

Uh-huh. So these are the disciples of different classes? Yeah, different levels of disciples.

Even you yourself profess, also profess that it's for disciples of different types, and that's contradictory to what you accept. Right. The Keelung Gel, yeah.

So the Chumden Dei Ki Chuki Khorlo, the Wheel of the Teachings, by I think we have to put that key in at the end, sorry. So these are the three turnings, right? The Wheel of the Teachings by the Conqueror, Khorwa looks similar to Khorlo, right?

When the Conqueror turned the three wheels. Okay. Che Tu Chawa.

It was targeted. It was for the purpose of certain disciples. Yeah, it was done on purpose.

For disciples, right. Yeah. This is going to tie to our Rick, right?

Yeah, three types of disciples here, probably listeners, self-made Buddhas and Bodhisattvas. Right. The three vehicles.

Rimchen successfully and Chukwa enter. So then putting that together, it's contradictory because it must it must necessarily be the case that sorry. Chumden Dei must have to enter the three turning of the wheel progressively because he wants to help the disciple to turn the wheel because the subject is Chumden Dei, right?

You have to enter the three vehicles progressively in order to help the student to teach the three turning of the wheel.

[Speaker 2]
But Chumden Dei didn't enter the three wheel progressively.

[Speaker 1]
I wonder, Gibson, if enter refers to the disciples, the Chumden Dei. I think it's Chumden Dei. I think it's the disciples.

Rimchen Chukwa. Chumden Dei does the Korwa does the Korwa-ing, does the turning. And he's doing that for the sake of the disciples.

And if that's true, then yin-na entering into the tekpasu must be done progressively. The vibe I'm getting is that that's the disciples, though. Yeah, it still could require some painting out.

Maybe there's some ambiguity here. I don't think so. I think you're right, Ben.

It's pretty clear. Chumden Dei is teaching turning the Dharma wheel for the sake of disciples of three types so that they can successively enter. It's by consequence.

Hopefully he clarifies that a little. That's not something I've necessarily heard. I'm very interested to hear some elaboration on why it's important to know that we don't necessarily come up to the deepest understandings progressively, if that's what he's saying.

But that seems to be the vibe, that it would be naughty or a no-no to think that a disciple necessarily comes up in their understanding in that sort of a linear fashion. It almost would seem okay. I'm eager to hear.

If middle way is the second turning of the wheel, then it can't be successful. That's true. Well played.

Yeah, but that wouldn't contradict their own position as they see their own position. You're right from our perspective. If the mind only school thinks that the three are progressively higher then it might seem okay.

I might put it in a different order, but as a middle wayer I might want to say, yeah, maybe first you understand one, then you understand three, then you understand two. But maybe it's not like that. Maybe you just get a fine, special student-like word is naturally attracted towards the third turning first.

I know it's hoist upon you and not natural, but let's pretend as an example. I think it's interesting to have this discussion, but the more that we sit here and think about it, I think it kind of is necessarily not successive, because the third is purported to be wrong and is based upon having known the second first. You can't really learn the third without the second.

Isn't the third less subtle than the second? According to whom? Yeah.

But if you just forget about the traditional order of the teachings and you just say, there's the simple version, the medium version, and the correct version. The simple version, the medium version, and the correct version. Would you expect a student to necessarily move through that progression?

No. I wonder. It seems like that question seems to be in play.

Got it. I agree. Okay, let's see if we can do another one.

Because the famous wordsmith went straight to the third turning. He won't give it up. I'm trying.

Chloe, would you like to read? Yes. Heavy prenasal there.

Minduk. Minduk. Minduk.

Minduk. Minduk. Minduk.

Minduk. Irreversible wheel of teachings. Tom means the expression.

So that's what we're talking about. The irreversible wheel of teachings. That expression.

Well, actually, just do that. One final vehicle. Right.

It's said to teach one final vehicle. Final or ultimate? Or ultimate.

Wait, don't skip that law. Well, we're going to put it together. There's a law.

The final wheel, a.k.a. the third wheel. Final vehicle. Teach the three turning of the wheel.

Teaches the three ways. Teaches that there's three options. But ultimately, there's three vehicles.

Right. It means as it has already explained earlier. That's like already said.

Earlier. Connection. Wow, we're mutually exclusive or there's no connection.

That's cool. I was not expecting this. Okay, now the law.

Okay. It is already explained earlier. It's just, but here, I would think this is a disjunctive.

Yeah. No, it's a soft disjunctive. It's saying, hey, unstoppable, that we, the expression that we discuss usually is teaches that there's claims that there's only one vehicle.

But as we've already explained earlier, this says there's, it's ultimately three. And those things don't connect with each other. Yes.

Yeah. So in the core low Tom on meaning in it's in the third turning. That it is believed that there are three separate.

Yeah, apparently they already talked about it. Remember where I vaguely remember do you remember venerable. It was, it was a while ago.

Oh yeah, I remember earlier, like two years ago. Something like that. Yeah.

Yeah, well this is an interesting curveball so it's not. Yeah, so, so, at least according to the third turning. You don't necessarily go up in a progression.

In fact, it's not even clear that you ever get out of the, the turning or the perspective that you're in. You might just hang out on one turning of the wheel or another forever because in the end, the three understandings or the three teachings are separate. Yeah, for different types of disciples not for one disciple going up to a progression.

But just for the, the disciple who's sort of limited or locked in the jail of their own view which is kind of a bummer. So it's nice that in the highest school we don't buy it, and we do believe that everybody progresses, but he didn't mention. But, but, but are these three ultimate ways.

Do they ultimately get you to the same place are the three ultimate three ultimately different things. According to which turning. Toma, then yes, according to the third turning, comma, the three turnings are separate are for separate types of people, but we can say according to the second turning the three turnings.

In the end, send you all eventually to the deepest understanding that frees you and all your friends from pain. I get that but where does the last turning ultimately say, these three turnings send you to that's what I'm trying to answer to earlier in the book. I don't do shit.

Him to have quoted. Maybe I should go find that for next time. No, find it now we have, we're discussing negative one minute.

[Speaker 2]
We're discussing.

[Speaker 1]
I would be hard pressed to convince the world that real life application is building a footnote to this question. No, not a footnote. Whatever.

I'll look it up. Fine. I believe you will.

Um, it would be cool to know. Just, you know, maybe next class. Well, what do we do?

I can go look, I guess. Oh, she can't resist. See what you've done word.

What what I intended to do.

[Speaker 2]
Well, I think it is applicable.

[Speaker 1]
I mean, I don't think my only or whatever, but I'm. But what are they saying, are they saying, are they saying that there are just. Yeah, are they saying once you try to just become an arhat that's all you ever get.

I don't know. Yeah, yeah, that seems to be the position. And maybe even.

I don't know, does this carry into spot Tantra? The so the book that Casey and Michael is working on now. Yeah.

The illumination is very famous for pointing out. Exactly. That in the end.

Well, no, there I disagree. That we all see the same emptiness when we see emptiness directly.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. But that's novel. Jetsun Kappa is very famous for presenting this as an exciting perspective that people may be missing.

And I would guess that the mind only school is supposed to be an example of of a school who believes that people see something different in that state. And especially those three. The listeners.

Fair enough, but I would put it differently, which is that listeners self-made Buddhas and bodhisattvas see their version of reality, which is not the position that we accept. Got it. Okay.

What do we think? Paula? Can I use this to brush my teeth better tomorrow?

Well, are you in a garden? I would say an emptiness. All things are possible.

I'm sorry, I'm searching in it. My computer is not very happy that I have too many things open. So I'm not able to search quickly.

So I'm sorry. Don't worry. You search.

We'll discuss who has a real life application for the mind only school. I've been wondering for a few years. Well, I guess we can ask the question, do we learn progressively or not anything?

That's a great question. Well, if we talk about big things being progressive, then we have to talk about time. And so does time exist?

Sure. Is there a before that's necessarily related to a now that's necessarily related to an after? Yeah.

And how do you designate what progressive is? I mean, you can only look at something in hindsight and say, oh, that was progressive. It's totally subjective.

Not with gemstones. They're different of all things in the universe. They are different.

Yeah. We accept time. We accept two truths.

We accept the realm of the conceptual is the realm that our minds create by the power of our seeds. And we live in that world. And there seems to be progressions.

Maybe only when viewed from a distance. Some days I seem to be going downhill. But I would say viewed over the five-ish decades of my life, I've made some progress, even if I may have reverted some since yesterday.

But if we look at planting those seeds, the seeds you planted today, this moment may not be progressively ripening into that next moment. It could be several lifetimes from now. So what kind of progression are we talking about?

Is one following the other? Or is it leapfrogging? Yeah.

I would imagine it's a trend that goes up and down a lot if you look at it closely. Yeah. And keeps moving, I hope, upward.

But I don't know. You can spend, if we've been struggling since beginningless time, maybe the trend can go down quite a bit. Yeah.

Sometimes, you know, if you've ever seen, like, I don't know how many people out there are familiar with stock charts. But you can choose to look at them in, like, one-minute intervals or five-minute intervals. Like one day or ten-year, even.

And, yeah, I mean, if the conclusion is that we all ultimately reach the fifth path of no more learning, then, yeah, the trend does have to, I mean, be an upward trend. Just it depends on the, if you're taking a macroscopic, are you looking at it from 30,000 feet from an airplane view? Or are you looking at it from the experience of being on the ground?

And kind of what perspective are you taking on it? Yeah. If you're strapped into a car, a motor vehicle, in the driver's seat, and you fumble around and fumble around, there aren't three pedals that make the car, that give the car gas.

You can't press on either the gas or the brake or the clutch. Not all of you know what that pedal is. But only one of those give the car gas, make the car go.

In the end, only truth works. And only understanding the mechanism of reality will give you consistent results, will give you the things that you want. Because what keeps us in this cycle of suffering is a mere misunderstanding of that truth.

It must fall. Right. It must fall.

We're pressing on the clutch to go, and there hasn't even been a clutch in 20 years. I just did that recently. Is the final argument for successive instead of, instead of respective?

I think it's heartening. I think it's nice. I think it's also a beautiful comment about being respective of where people are at and the usefulness of everything we're doing together.

If we believed that these paths were totally separate, we would have kicked word out of the club a long time ago for teaching us all this mind-only nonsense. No. We'd have given him a different book.

We'd have given him a good book and not let him waste his time and his precious, glorious mind on such a useless topic when we could be somewhere higher. But he's helping us. He's all of the mixed nuts, even dumb old Adam and I down here in Southrantica.

We wouldn't be allowed to play with you clever folk, but it seems like there's something useful there. And then what else? What other systems, the big uniting force around different systems in the world, not just in the mixed nuts, but anyone you see on the street, whether they're into one religion or another religion or not into religion, do they have some reason, some justification for kindness, for love of one another?

And then they're probably roughly on the right track. We can refine from there. I wouldn't want to hurt anyone doing that.

I would want to keep alive in this world, every system that says, take care of yourselves and one another. And we can work out the details together until eventually we don't just want to care for one another, but we know exactly what will achieve that goal of everybody being taken care of. Yeah, right.

Yeah. How do we take care of each other? Spontaneously.

Better yet. Yeah, totally. Well, we're getting better and better.

Absolutely. I'll take it. Yep, me too.

In a single instant. That was really beautiful, Ben. Yeah.

Thank you. I like the car and the gas and brake clutch analogy there. I was also thinking about my psychotherapy training.

And I met at some point my colleagues that were working with schizophrenic patients. And they were helping them to, how to say, like psychotherapists, they work with healthy people to help them with their emotions and stress in life. And then I met these beautiful people who were helping schizophrenic people to work with their non-existent things, right?

Because they had emotions and traumas because of non-existent things, that they had fears, you know, and lots of stuff. And then at some point you think, okay, maybe they're not that crazy, right? How do I know what exists, what doesn't exist?

Much less, I cannot judge a mind only, who helps people who are a little bit more sophisticated in their minds. Yeah, do they have a better chance than us? Oh, please, Kelsey.

I was just going to say that it's an interesting, I've thought about that before because I've had some mental illness in my family. And it's like, if they're perceiving it, does it mean it's non-existent for them? No, we're perceiving different things.

And there's convention that we all agree that there are some things that exist and some things that don't. But it's only through convention. And if somebody is seeing someone sitting next to them and I don't see it, does that mean that they don't exist?

For me. For me, and that it does exist for them. And so how can you judge?

Yeah, Buddha has something to say about that. So we're agreed. You are not me or someone like me.

Yeah. Should never judge. Surely it's all.

We won't have to live in different rooms when we get to the goal. We won't have to be in these separate little glowing boxes on our screen in the end. We'll all be in one big glowing box.

Just pushing the metaphor a little bit. Sorry, crowd strike. Well, thank you all for your interest in this text.

And so, yeah, we need to think about for next time. What did K.J. say was the Mind Only School's position about the three vehicles? I found it.

We don't have to talk about it now. But it's it's section 210 if you want to find it.

[Speaker 2]
Great.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, it's actually it's a Arya Sangha quote that is being quoted.

Great. Thank you. Yeah.

Check it out. OK. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Thank you.

[Speaker 2]
Yay.

[Speaker 1]
You there, Hasso? Waiting for that resounding yay.

[Speaker 2]
How's it going? How's life in San Diego?

[Speaker 1]
We miss you.

[Speaker 2]
I know I couldn't go. Maybe next time.

[Speaker 1]
I hope so.

[Speaker 2]
Hopefully you can take me a surfing tour.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, that'd be really fun.

[Speaker 2]
Amazing. Actually, I made it to Mexico. We are here excited as a house, a big family waiting for all of you who are coming.

Michael will be arriving to Mexico City next weekend. So people here are very excited. I've seen a few of them producing the event, you know, getting ready, getting details.

The atmosphere is amazing. So I will just say for now that if you can make it in person, try to come. If not, try to sign up online and we'll be talking more about it in a few more minutes.

But first, let me show you something very cool that our dear friend Rosa, which is in charge of the Balisse project, prepared for us. Some of you have been lately getting these wonderful, wonderful Balisse with the idea of at nighttime putting our electronics aside. And this really helps us to have like a much better sleep.

And this sleep improves in general, I will say, our mental, how to say, concentration, our energy, our mood if we have a good night's sleep. So it's a wonderful initiative. You know, this project to help us to get a sharper mind, a more focused concentration, a good night's sleep.

So for those of you who have been getting these Balisse with that purpose or maybe other purposes like presents or stuff like that, you can still get it if you follow the QR code. But we want to show you a video on how it works. It's a very cool production video.

And here we go. So, yeah, that's a little sample on how the Balisse project works. It comes with the automatic lock.

You put it at nighttime, set a timer. Next morning, it will be there waiting for you to keep going with your precious projects, we hope. All right.

So, yeah, check it out. And if you ever want a Balisse, you can just ask us, talk to Rosa. We keep promoting it.

I have one, yeah, not here right now, but very cool project. And of course, you know, a very important thing, you will be supporting these wonderful classes, these wonderful projects. So that's it for the Balisse for now.

And just to share with you, our friends in Asia just finished their Voodoo Budur tour project event. It was very cool. We had the chance to talk with Sugeng live there while JB and Connie were leading a meditation last Monday.

We have some pictures about it. And then they are keep going in their tour in Asia. Actually, just two days ago, JB had an event in Singapore.

Is the next picture, please? Yeah, it's just happening right now. And a lot of it has to do with keep growing the project of ALL, which is also responsible for ourselves having access to this wonderful wisdom.

So we want to keep wishing best of success over there. And on Monday, we will have the great luck of talking with Sugeng about many different events that have been happening there. But for now, we want to show you a video of one of them he shared with us.

Yeah, Sugeng sent us this wonderful event in Indonesia, happened a few days ago. So, yeah, there you go. Thank you, Sugeng for having us in the video.

And on Monday, we'll be talking with him about more details on what actually happened there. A little bit of what were the topics, the intention of this event. And the tour in Asia keeps going.

And you will hear soon more news about it. In other news, Tim Lowenhaupt is now about to finish his tour. First, he went to Taiwan, then to Spain, and now he's in Romania.

So, yeah, maybe some of you saw him in camera a few minutes ago, but I could notice that he's with some of our Romanian friends. We wish you, Tim, best luck and see you in Mexico soon. And also just to remind you that the Innovation Retreats are about to have some sessions in August.

And then again in September. This is the initiative to have some retreats that help us to increase our creativity to develop wonderful projects in many different aspects of life. And also somehow start attaching the West and East Hemispheres to join in Diamond Mountain and other places to start making this connection.

Later, as you have heard before, it's going to be connected as well. These two places, Asia and, I don't know, West, with the Dunhuang Caves, and we'll be talking about that soon. But here for now, just to know, for you to know, events are coming up.

If you're interested, follow the QR code or talk to Stanley Chen. Okay, and finally, you know, next week, we already mentioned, Mexico Retreat is happening. You still have a chance to sign online if you haven't yet.

And I would like to welcome our friend Flavia here with us to talk a little bit about how's the pre-production going. If you could pin her. Oh, yeah, there you are, Flavia.

How are you?

[Speaker 1]
Hello, Juan. I'm good. How are you?

[Speaker 2]
Good to see you again.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I'm actually, I'm in a yoga studio. We came to, Belén helped me. We came to promote the event next weekend.

So we have been talking with people and just sharing about the event next week.

[Speaker 2]
That's wonderful. So can you tell us a little bit of your participation as pre-production this time? What roles are you helping with?

[Speaker 1]
Well, it started with, Flavia, can you help us with some promotion and go and talk with people and make some videos? I was like, sure, why not? And then it was like, can you help us with this hospitality thing?

I was like, of course. And so now I'm doing hospitality, basically. So a lot of little things to receive people and to treat them, you know, with a lot of love and kindness.

How we usually Latinos do.

[Speaker 2]
That's wonderful. So if anyone has questions, you are the person they should be reaching out. If they want to sign up, if they need information to arrive in the airport, whatever it is, you can help them with that.

[Speaker 1]
Exactly. If you want anything and everything, it doesn't matter what time of the day. Yeah, you can just send them to me.

[Speaker 2]
That's so cool. That's so cool. So can you share a little bit of how many people are you guys expecting this time over there?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, actually, to be honest, yes, I'm helping with hospitality, but our team is a huge team. We are like at least 50 people supporting this event in different ways from little to huge. You know that like production and hospitality and tech, everything.

And we are expecting us today around like 170 people. But we never know. You know, sometimes people get like really excited the last few days before the event.

And also we have an open talk on Friday. And for that, we also have another 100 people. So for the conference or for the open talk, we are expecting around 250 people.

[Speaker 2]
That's very cool. I think we are all very excited to see how this retreat goes, because traditionally, usually we have been having these retreats in Guadalajara. Now I hear like the production team wanted to expand the audience and they are doing this experiment in Mexico City.

And it seems to be going very, very well. So another thing that I find very cool is that actually the angel debates the devil. It's like a very fitable topic there because, you know, the emblema of this angel in Mexico City that it's in the poster.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I think we have people all over Mexico and Latin America. So people who speak in Spanish and follow ACI Mexico. And we want to share with everyone.

We want to strengthen our community, the relationships that we have among ourselves in the community and also to always reach more people. And so, yes, this time is in Mexico City. And the emblematic statue is a beautiful golden angel.

And yes, this conversation is going to be the text. Yes, Michael is going to be sharing from an angel debates the devil. So, yes, like you said, totally related with this beautiful independence angel that we have in Mexico City.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you, Flavia. So lastly, what would you say to people who have not yet signed up? What would you say to convince them to sign up?

[Speaker 1]
I mean, there is so many things that you can say, but, you know, we never know what is happening tomorrow or next week. So if you have an opportunity, you should take it. If you have an opportunity to meet someone so special, ask ACI Michael and a lot more people who is trying to actually change the world and change reality to make it into a beautiful, perfect reality.

I think if you have the chance, you should come. And also, you know, there is an online version of it. So if you cannot make it live, do it online.

Always, always don't miss it.

[Speaker 2]
Wonderful, Flavia. Thank you so much. So we will be seeing soon either here in Guadalajara or in Mexico City.

Some people are going to start coming. It's very exciting. It's like Christmas.

Almost seeing family, friends. It's wonderful. So see you there very soon.

And thank you so much for all the work you're putting. I can see how much work of the production you all are doing. It just feels wonderful.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you so much, Juan. And yes, please, everyone, come. We are so happy to have you here.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, we will be reporting more next weekend about it. Thank you so much. Everyone, have a great either day or night.

And see you next time on Monday or Tuesday if you are in Asia. Thank you so much, everyone.