Бетси Грир — Книга 2: Интерлюдия о пустоте, занятие 61

[Speaker 1]
I'm looking forward to it. Today we have an exciting episode for you. It's still a team class, which have been pretty fun.

Surprisingly, we're maybe even learning stuff, making progress on some of these books, so I'm, as usual, really happy and honored to get to be a part of this amazing effort to translate and preserve this incredible wisdom. So, are you ready, Utpala? No, but we're going to start anyway.

[Speaker 2]
Aww. Well, I'm sure whatever you have is phenomenal, as it always is.

[Speaker 1]
Let's not set expectations too high this morning.

[Speaker 2]
Are you feeling any better?

[Speaker 1]
Barely better. So, yeah, I stayed up until 1 and got up at 4. And I'm not sure I'm really in any better position than I was before I started all that, but we'll try.

So I do not have a quiz for you today. And please, live translators, wave or poke me or something if I speak too quickly. It's not my intention to make your lives any more challenging than they may already be.

So, if you recall, we were talking about the three turnings of the wheel. And there were two things that the three turnings were not related to. Does anyone recall what those two things are?

One had to do with like... The order of the teachings or the stages of his life? Right.

It doesn't have to do with the stages of his life. The other one was like maybe the three tracks of practitioners. Right.

It also doesn't have to do with who was in the audience. And it doesn't mean that all the sutras are really part of the three turnings of the wheel. That is an implication.

Because what it is related to, Venerable Gyalse, is... It's related to the teachings on emptiness, the teachings on how things exist. It's not like how monks and nuns wear their robes.

Right. How monks and nuns should wear their robes does not have to do with the nature of reality. Although, sometimes it can be a challenge to put them on correctly.

So, there is that struggle with reality. Right. So, the three turnings have to do with how the teachings talk about the nature of reality.

What selflessness is. And just as a way of review, so we're all on the same page. How can we say those three turnings are distinct?

With regard to selflessness. The first turning of the wheel...

[Speaker 2]
Implies that things have some nature of their own.

[Speaker 1]
That things really exist.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Right. I don't think we can say that... Did the Buddha really teach that everything has a nature of its own?

I don't think so.

[Speaker 2]
It kind of implies it because he doesn't deny it. He talks about it as if things have a nature of their own.

[Speaker 1]
Right. That the robes are worn this way. People took it that way.

And then the second turning of the wheel is related to... Emptiness. Emptiness.

And what does emptiness mean in the second turning of the wheel?

[Speaker 2]
There's no anything.

[Speaker 1]
It's not that there's no anything. It's that... Nothing has any quality?

Of their own. Right. Nothing has any quality of its own.

And then the third turning of the wheel... Word's favorite topic... Yeah, right.

Are we doing it from Mind Only's perspective or Middle Way's perspective? The third turning. Oh, why don't you give us both?

Okay. Mind Only, third turning is right. Middle Way, third turning is wrong.

Right. That's how those schools evaluate the third turning. But how can we talk about...

I mean... Yeah. Talking about how it is that teachings in the third turning of the wheel discuss the nature of reality.

How do they talk about... There are fine distinctions needed to understand the lack of a self-nature in different types of objects. And the presence of a self-nature in some.

Right?

[Speaker 2]
Some sort of nature.

[Speaker 1]
Changing things. Things under the power of other things exist.

[Speaker 2]
By definition.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, right. And there's a way in which those don't exist as well. Right.

By the way, this quiz was very second turning and kind of Zen.

[Speaker 2]
It's like the art of giving a quiz, but you have no quiz.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I'm in the Zen mode right now.

[Speaker 2]
I love it.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, so... Why the heck are we talking about, once again, the three turnings of the wheel? Well, it's fun.

We're transitioning from Mind Only School to Middle Way in your book? We see that glimmer of hope. Yes.

But in a more macro view, why are we talking about the three turnings? And the samsara. I'm going to riff off of that, Pei-Ling.

The only way to get to the end of samsara is by seeing the nature of reality directly in a state of deep meditation. So, what is the nature of reality? There were three turnings.

Excuse me?

[Speaker 2]
Buddha taught it in these three ways.

[Speaker 1]
Right. And which one do we take as literal? And which ones do we take as figurative?

So, that's why we're talking about the three turnings. So, K. Drip J is, as the word says, giving us a glimmer of hope that we're reaching the end of the discussion of whose idea about what is literal?

Do you recall?

[Speaker 2]
Mind Only.

[Speaker 1]
Right. Arya Asanga and Master Vasubandhu's idea. Or you could say Maitreya's idea.

And so, that's where we are. And we just discussed, okay, the three turnings are not something about the Buddha's life or who was in the room, but it's about the nature of reality. And some guy comes along and says, wait a minute, I'm going to quote a sutra to you that basically says you're wrong, K.

Drip J. And we went through, K. Drip J had the, we went through the first like little paragraph of that story from K.

Drip J. And then, as you recall, last class, we went to the sutra itself. And we discussed how the sutra tells the story.

And does anyone recall what the metaphor is that the Buddha was presenting? Refining a crystal, refining a gemstone? Right, refining a precious gem that, well, is unrefined at the moment.

And then, there was a conclusion that the Buddha presented, right? He likened that story of, you know, starting off with a rough hairbrush and then going to a liquid, quicksilver liquid, bathing it, using a tree to scrape out some bits, separating the, what do you call it? Like the class of rock crystals from the lapis lazuli, the precious stone.

It was in the same way the Buddhists tried to get us to renunciation through polishing us and cleaning us and putting us through the acid. Thank you, Venerable Kelsey. Okay.

It feels like acid sometimes. Yeah, it does. And even the other kind of acid, too, sometimes.

I mean, I've heard. So, now we, Geshe Michael asked me to identify the differences in language between the sutra, the Buddha's speech, and how Khayyap Jey relays the story. So, we'll get to do that.

And by me now sharing my screen, I will not see any of you. I will not see the chat. I'll sort of be stuck away from you, but just know I'm still here.

We'll see you. Oh, I'm sorry. You can, those who want to follow along on their computers, I have uploaded this document I'm about to share with you.

Okay. Do you see differences in presentations of the metaphor of refining precious stones?

[Speaker 2]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Miracles abound. Okay, so what I've done in this document, is that better?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, great.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, good. So, I put the sutra language first. Khayyap Jey's presentation of the story, second.

And I've underlined the differences between the two. So, I'm not sure if we, do we need to read these aloud, the Tibetan, or? Up to you.

I think we can just discuss it. It was fine. Okay.

So, they both start off very similarly, right? Rikipu, ditate, perna. So, the sutra's like, oh, child of noble family.

It's like this, for example. And Khayyap Jey says, Rikipu perna, ditate. So, we just sort of reorganized it, but it means the same thing.

And does anyone recall what, what a Norbu Kenkepa is? Master jeweler. Yeah.

Right. Nice. Thank you.

A gemologist? Gemologist. And, so this, Norbu Jongwa.

We Jongwa the Norbus. Cleaning, work on, yeah, purifying. Right.

Purifying. Thank you, word. Because that comes up to be a difference later on in the story where Khayyap Jey talks about purifying and the Buddha talks about cleaning.

But anyway, so it's, it's, so the, the Sutra says it's the Chogashintu of the purifying precious stones. Ritual. Ritual for purifying them.

The very ritual. That's what it came to mean. But I think in this case, it means the process for cleaning.

And then Khayyap Jey just has a different way of talking about it, which is, oh, I shouldn't have. So it's the difference between Choga and Sul. So Sul is, anyone?

Method, as Oscar said. So we've got the, oh, sorry, I didn't hear you Oscar. The method for purifying stones or the, what did I say?

[Speaker 2]
Process.

[Speaker 1]
The process. Thank you. Someone's listening.

Oh my gosh. Okay. The process for purifying stones.

And then he's got, what kind of knowledge is it? It's Shintu, according to the Buddha. And it's Lekpar, according to Khayyap Jey.

So very similar. Again, Shintu is, what does that mean? It has very, very, very, very annoying.

Very annoying. Yes. Sorry, we're.

[Speaker 2]
Very annoying.

[Speaker 1]
And then Lekpar, those of us who did Sojong together yesterday will recall this phrase. Knowing real nice. Goodly, goody, fine knowledge.

Yep. Okay. So then now we, we have the difference here of Jang, Jangwa, Majepa.

And Khayyap Jey uses, Yeongsu, Maddape. So again, very similar. Does anyone know what Yeongsu means?

[Speaker 2]
Usually. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Thoroughly or completely. And Maddape.

Impure. Impure. And this is, opposite.

Don't have the thoroughly here, basically. Cause this says, impure. Jangwa, Majepa.

Not yet cleaned it. As yet untreated. Yeah.

Okay. The next difference is now we're talking about how we're going to like, okay, what's involved with the way of purifying these precious stones that are not yet refined. The Buddha talks about, butok, which if you recall from last class is, mineral salts.

If someone said something. Mineral salts. Yeah.

Yeah. Great. Thank you.

And, KJJ, says, what does he say? He says, lensa. Lensa.

Salt. Yeah. So.

Which was a new word for me. And it means acid. So again, very similar lens.

I chew maybe means acid. Well, I don't know. A particularly corrosive acid.

Maybe there are different levels of lens. I usually mean salt, but Geshe-la said, yeah, lens. I hear lens.

He chew means like a corrosive chemical or something. Or like if you, you know, at least in colloquial, I think we learned that lens. I was salt.

Oh, it totally is. Spicy. Spicy.

[Speaker 2]
Put it on their cauliflower and buffalo wings.

[Speaker 1]
I see acid.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Yes.

[Speaker 1]
And now the verb that the Buddha uses is true. And the verb that KJJ uses is, we think, John. So true.

Does anyone recall what true means? To wash. Right.

Or to bathe. And John, we just talked about it. Purify.

So those are, that's kind of interesting difference. Why can't it be pong eliminated? You will see.

I'll just show up later too. But, and so I do have this question. Like every time we see pong, is it really John?

Because to eliminate, eliminate, there's no, there's no. Okay. So we're eliminating the thoroughly impure precious stone by, by using the acid water, by applying the acid.

But we're not eliminating the stone. We're eliminating impurities. We're not eliminating a thoroughly impure stone.

Otherwise that would be the end. Right. Of the impurities.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Be the end of the impure stone. Yeah. The stone will be gone.

No, the stone would. No. I agree with words.

Your argument is young sumadak. Okay. That was a splash of cold water.

I'm joking. Either way. Very, very good use of young sumadak.

Thank you. Okay. Well, I thought it was different, but anyway.

All right. So the next difference is, it's pretty subtle. We have, we have the Buddha saying, China, Paula.

Wait. She door J way. She door.

And that is refined by refining with a cloth of rough black hair. She daughter could be like a brush too, or something like a comb. Well, we got this sign here in both, in both instances.

So it's. Yeah. But of course, you know, guess you, Michael will, we'll make sure this comes out correctly.

Sure. And what cage of J says is that basically you're purifying. Oh, you're purifying by thoroughly purifying by using a, a hair cloth, a cloth made of hair.

So it's just again, purifying versus cleaning and a cloth of hair versus a rough cloth of hair. So this one was implying a finer cloth, right? Or it's not.

Cause we're at the rough. This is the most, this is the first of the applications. Yeah.

So this is course like horse hair cloth course. Right. And so Toronto means like the darker hairs, like the coarser hairs.

Probably like from a horse's mane or something. Yeah. Like the darker hair, like as opposed to the little fine ones.

Right. Right. Thank you.

And then there's a slight difference in, as you recall, we talked about how the sutra said, they don't, uh, the, the gyun of their tsundru, some, they don't stop their, they, their efforts. They don't stop their efforts by just doing that. Yeah.

Also, not only do they not stop their efforts, but not just that, just that. And KJJ's little phrase is a tiny bit shorter. But he talks about how, uh, they don't dorwa their sunpa.

Chok. Chok. Right.

They don't abandon their efforts.

[Speaker 2]
That is more eloquent.

[Speaker 1]
And then he's got the yang in there. So it isn't even that they abandon efforts by just doing that. Something like that.

[Speaker 2]
Well, we see that KJJ managed to retain the meaning if he didn't.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. So far he has not deviated. So we've got our thinking again of the three turnings in the metaphor.

We've got our first of the three turnings here. Right. What do you, what does the key mean at the end?

Are you having this, but in the sutra version? Yeah, there is, isn't there? Um, so it's, he, he says like, but sorry, I didn't mean to get that shit, but they up to, but after that, they up to after that.

It seems like it should be a soft disjunctive if they, if they're continuing their efforts, though, just being nitpicky, just for fun. But yeah. So how would you, how would you, uh, like if the kong is even and not also, you know, then I think the key would be like, um, cause it wouldn't be, but cause that would be a hard disjunctive.

And that might be like a rather or something. Yeah. Rather they.

Yeah, exactly. I guess we'll have to see what things come next. So you should make this into a comic book.

[Speaker 2]
The entire con gear.

[Speaker 1]
Maybe people will read it. Okay. We got through one, one part of the metaphor.

Yay. Um, now we go on to the second part of the metaphor and there are again, differences. So we've got our difference between true and Pong which may be Pong or maybe Jong.

All right so we're bathing here and we're bathing it in acidic water.

[Speaker 2]
Isn't this Quicksilver now?

[Speaker 1]
Mercury? Yeah. Acidic Quicksilver.

Here we're purifying it with corrosive seikiku. Juices? Which literally means, I mean I don't know what this phrase is.

I couldn't find the phrase. It means, it means food juices. It's probably like, like a herb.

You squeeze out some herb or something and you get some like weird food juices. So like maybe related to like when you eat something then you've got a bunch of acid happening in your stomach to break down the food into its elements to be absorbed by the body. Didn't Keshala say it was aconitum?

It was what?

[Speaker 2]
Aconite.

[Speaker 1]
It could be aconite. Yeah. Yeah.

The great, something like the great medicine or something like that? Oh that's coming up. Oh okay.

But literally it's the food of semen. Kua is semen. But interestingly also mulchu could, can be translated as semen as well as Quicksilver.

I just found that a curious thing. Yeah. Kua means semen just the way that juice means juice.

Like the, like this rarefied substance that's potent. That's what a Kua is. A potent juice.

Okay. So we already talked about the Kru and Pong. So here the Buddha talks about, we have our so clean by cleaning with Xing, Dang, Nambu.

Which Xing. Stick and cloth. Yeah stick and cloth.

Xing is tree or stick and Nambu is cloth. And then Kedripche is talking about, oh sorry. There.

Kedripche is talking about purifying by purifying with a woollen cloth. I don't know what, I mean it's just interesting that came into it. And then we have again the same difference between whether you're cutting the flow of your efforts or abandoning your efforts, which is basically the same thing.

Okay. So here we go on to the third of the three steps of purifying an unrefined gemstone. Deyotu, do you remember anyone?

Yeah. And after that. After that.

Now, Venerable Gyelse, mention Poi Kua true. We're going to bathe by, by doing what? By washing it with aconite.

Right. Sorry. Which is a famous herb in Asia and Europe because it's so deadly.

Yeah. Yeah. Super poison.

Oh gosh, these are all pretty deadly. Yeah. Quicksilver, don't be eating aconite.

So that's the menchen, the great medicine. Yeah. Okay.

And then we have just, I mean, it's just an interesting differences. We're again, we're cleaning by cleaning and this time with a fine cloth, right? And here we're punging with.

[Speaker 2]
Maybe. Yeah, right.

[Speaker 1]
We, we are purifying. We are, we purify by purifying with, and this is Re Sap Mu.

[Speaker 2]
Thin cloth?

[Speaker 1]
One knows.

[Speaker 2]
Thin.

[Speaker 1]
Thin or delicate. So one is fine and one is delicate. And then we have, we have this, this final process here.

All of that is, by cleaning, we are drell the Norbu Chingu Rik. Yeah. The other less precious stones.

From the lapis lazuli. Are left with lapis lazuli, or what we call lapis. Or maybe.

[Speaker 2]
Right.

[Speaker 1]
We separate out the, the rock crystal from the lapis lazuli. And here, sorry. Wait, sorry.

Is the S there for sutra? Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. I was wondering if the shejao is in the sutra, because then I guess.

[Speaker 1]
It is.

[Speaker 2]
So he's saying with what we call lapis, I guess.

[Speaker 1]
Well, because we're talking about, he's, he's relaying the story of what a gemologist says is the way to purify out the impurities in a precious gem that is unrefined. So Buddha's like, this is what those guys. It's like, they say, you know, these, these gemologists say.

Got it. This Norbu Khem Kepa told me once. Yeah, exactly.

This Norbu Khem Kepa.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, 3,000 years from now, this is what they will say.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Cool. As long as they don't turn it into, Utpala once said, no, no, no, don't say that.

Okay. No, he's going to be like, I was that Norbu Khem Kepa. And again, we have our Yang Tzu Zhang instead of, instead of Ji Dorje.

And here, KJJ includes Trima Dong Zhawa. So we're not only, we, we, we separate out the defilements and then we're left with the great class of lapis lazuli.

[Speaker 2]
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. We got our three steps of the process. Hopefully not everyone is asleep.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, this is like the ultimate nerdy stuff.

[Speaker 1]
This is amazing. Comparing the wording of a sutra with how KJJ recounted it. Right.

Okay. Now, so we get to the part of the story where the Buddha says, okay, you sons and daughters of noble families, this is what's going on. Why did I tell you this metaphor?

It's because it's just like, we talked about this last time. Do you recall? It's just like, oh, I got to find my notes.

Okay. In the same way as that. So in the same way as refining, unrefined, precious gems.

[Speaker 2]
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1]
The Daishin Shekpas. The one's gone to bliss. Right.

I'm that way in this case. Sorry. Yeah.

The one's gone thus. They take sentience who are young sumadakpa.

[Speaker 2]
Familiar.

[Speaker 1]
Those unrefined people. Thoroughly impure.

[Speaker 2]
Thoroughly unrefined.

[Speaker 1]
KJJ throws in this young, which I thought was interesting. Does anyone have an idea of why he might've thrown that in?

[Speaker 2]
Just like the gemstones.

[Speaker 1]
Well, we already have the Daishin. In the same way, the Daishin Shekpas also. Oh, also.

Yeah, they also do the same process to unrefined living. Completely, thoroughly, unmistakably impure living beings. And they can, they're calm, says KJJ.

And then the Buddha said they wreck their calm.

[Speaker 2]
They know their type. They know their, I'm guessing this has to do with knowing how to purify them each.

[Speaker 1]
I think the difference is that Rick would be recognizing. So they recognize their, and Geshe-la said that calm was passion. So they recognize these thoroughly impure living beings passions.

And KJJ just says they ken them. They know them. Is it?

No, word doesn't agree. I don't know. I mean, calm can mean like 16 things.

So it's so hard to translate. So how else could we translate it then? Calm can mean something.

Well, it can mean category in the sense of the 18 categories. And I feel like it can mean something like type. Or realm also, yeah.

Yeah, it could be there. Or their nature? I feel, yeah.

I feel like it's something like. Almost like it functions sometimes like Nampa, like aspect. Yeah, kind, type.

In DCI, Geshe-la translates it with three words, talent, passion, purpose. Yeah. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. In this case, I think Geshe-la might even have glossed it as saying that they know how to refine each person, you know, like what their individual needs.

[Speaker 1]
Right.

[Speaker 2]
That's awesome. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. And then we have our list, which Kejuche includes word for word. Mitakpa, impermanence.

Duknya, wa. Duknya, wa. Someone.

[Speaker 2]
Suffering.

[Speaker 1]
Suffering-ish. Suffering-ish. And takmepa, selflessness.

Lack of self-nature.

[Speaker 2]
Selflessness-ish.

[Speaker 1]
Now, the Buddha says, mi dukpa yin jung wa. The. The ugliness which springs forth from their brain.

But he said that yin jung wa was renunciation, was a form of renunciation. Um, but what would you say that, uh, mi dukpa is like repulsive or something? Unattractive, ugly, repulsive.

Uh-huh. You get renunciation, or yin jung wa, or ki or wa. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. But these are the chinshi bokshi. These are the.

Ass-backward views. Yeah, these are the four ass-backwards. Okay.

And. Maybe K. Dorotei just comes to the point and says mi tsang wa, which is impurity or filth.

They usually use mi tsang wa for the fourth chinshi lok na mi dukpa. Nowadays. Nowadays.

So maybe nowadays came into being in like the 1400s or something. Yeah, nowadays is, yeah, 1400s. Yeah.

Now the Buddha says in here, ngeum par. So who knows ngeum par? Manifest, maybe in this case.

Manifest or direct. Yeah. Or evidently.

Abhi. So this is, uh. He adds that in and K.

Dorotei doesn't add it in. So we're talking about, as you recall, sem chins being ga wa with kor wa. Living beings being.

Having a good time in samsara. Yes, having a good time in samsara. So this would be living beings having.

Manifesting having a good time in samsara. I don't know. Ngeum par can just be very.

Very. Yeah, just abhi. It can mean, I think with the r, it has to, it becomes like adverbial or whatever.

Okay, so they're having a very good time. Yeah. At least those ones in the sixth realm, right?

Okay, so then again, we have here. There's. Does anyone recall what that was?

[Speaker 2]
They get renunciation.

[Speaker 1]
Right, they get renunciation. And K. Says.

They get sad about it. Right, they, they generate grief. I don't know, just something to recall.

It's interesting.

[Speaker 2]
That's pretty different, actually.

[Speaker 1]
I think it's the sadness, like abhi loki teswar, looking at sentient beings like. That kind of sadness. Yeah.

And this is just, again, a very subtle difference where the Buddha says ngeum par ce. K. Just honorific versus.

Regular. Oh, maybe so. I think they're both regular.

They just mean enter. Are they both regular? I thought ngeum par ce with a mao.

Isn't that honorific for ce? Ce definitely is. I don't know about.

I'm interested to know though. To bring about. I don't know if it's honorific or not, yeah.

Yeah, I can move. Somebody look. Okay, so those are pretty similar, except we have our new word for the fourth.

And we've got this, we've got the introduction of grief into the idea of renunciation. Now we're on to the next statement. Of Lord Buddha talking about what, why did I talk about this story?

Why did I tell you this story? So here's again, these, they begin with these phrases, which were different all along. Cutting the flow of efforts versus.

Abandoning efforts. But here it introduces, sorry. In both cases.

So it's the ones thus gone don't continue the flow of their efforts by just doing that. And it isn't even that the ones thus gone abandon efforts by just doing that. And here we're talking about emptiness.

And does anyone recall the three? Emptiness. Emptiness itself.

Where nothing has any quality of its own.

[Speaker 2]
The three doors to freedom.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, the three doors to freedom. No prayer. What happens to be non-part also.

[Speaker 2]
A lot of prayer.

[Speaker 1]
They're basically topics about emptiness. So the difference here is the Buddha says.

[Speaker 2]
Get it in your head.

[Speaker 1]
Comprehend or grasp.

[Speaker 2]
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, get it in your head. And K.J. says.

[Speaker 2]
Get it. Realize it.

[Speaker 1]
Realize it. Yeah. Can you tell I'm trying to make this fit until eight o'clock?

No, nine o'clock.

[Speaker 2]
11 minutes.

[Speaker 1]
We're going to have to go on. All right. Okay, now we're at the last.

The last part from this sutra. So again, we've got the difference in cutting the flow or abandoning the efforts by just doing that they don't abandon. They don't cut the flow of their efforts.

So we are talking about here. They go to what did K.J. Michael said after so that this one back up here, this was basically the second turning of the wheel, right? Emptiness.

[Speaker 2]
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1]
Now we're on to after that. So we're into the third turning. The turn.

So we have here this. We talked about it last time, but this wheel doesn't turn back. Um, so this idea that you're not going to regress after whatever we're talking about.

Um, we've got course soon. And, uh, let's see. The three turnings are.

Oh, shoot.

[Speaker 2]
Mm-hmm.

[Speaker 1]
So after the second turning teachings about the wheel, which never stops and doesn't turn back, uh, chairman donkey, they don't regress after that. And a related teaching called the three spheres course. So like the example, the emptiness, lack of a self nature to the giver, the gift and the giving, and how the three spheres are pure.

Young Sudaka. Um, is where is the, is like part. Please.

Like, yeah, same thing. Did I get your lawns? And she said, you know, sit that way.

Tom. He sent James.

[Speaker 2]
Hmm. See if it's in the cage of J version.

[Speaker 1]
Wrong. She's not so key. Nope.

Nope.

[Speaker 2]
Sorry. Why are you looking for an is like in there?

[Speaker 1]
Oh, because I thought it's like relating it to the metaphor. That they shouldn't do from the lessons. Oh, did we finish off with something like that?

Station. No, above in the last section. It could be transferred.

I guess the where was the nation? I mean, I only see Dation when it's with Shaka. Well, that was Dation dude.

Dation dude. Dation Shaka. Yeah.

Earlier when he transferred, he went from the gemology to the. There it is. Yeah.

Yeah. They shouldn't do it. Sorry.

They shouldn't do. And maybe this contributes to all the lines. Makes sense.

It could. Yeah. So I forgot to make notes about this phrase.

Which cage of J adds. It's just like he just throws it in there. In between the Tom Key and the sentient.

[Speaker 2]
Wow.

[Speaker 1]
So. So the. Cute.

Chen. So living caused by the various.

[Speaker 2]
Nature.

[Speaker 1]
Nature's. I think it's nature. Yeah.

Essence. Nature. Variety caused by.

Well, we have to read the whole sentence, but it looks like it says something like it has causes through its air as causes of various types or something. But we have to see what he's talking about. So he's talking about.

And they flip it this time. The Buddha said and says joke. So enter into the yule of the.

To the land of the those gone thus. Yep. So entering into the land of those gone thus.

These beings. These these beings. With causes relating to various natures.

What do you suppose? What the heck is happening? Well, let's read the let's get all the way to the.

Beginning, because. We need. We need to know what the heck's going on, of course.

Isn't what wrong? Shin isn't that what the three turnings of the wheel is not the thing being. Discussed is not the difference in each turning what the nature of things are.

The wrong shin, right? Probably. Yes.

Okay. So. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
So is is it possible that Korsum here doesn't even mean three spheres, but he's just talking about the three turnings?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, Korsum, the three turnings.

[Speaker 2]
I feel like Geshe Michael wrote in brackets above the three spheres. But maybe he was just quickly.

[Speaker 1]
Is that Geshe Michael's notes? Yep.

[Speaker 2]
But I would tend to think that it's talking about the three turnings here because we're in that, and it seems to be saying.

[Speaker 1]
Yep.

[Speaker 2]
The when you're talking about the three, the words of each turning.

[Speaker 1]
Yes.

[Speaker 2]
Is, you know, helping that you're helping people with the various types of predispositions enter into the world of the land of the those gone that way.

[Speaker 1]
Perfect. Thank you. I think that's exactly.

[Speaker 2]
The meaning.

[Speaker 1]
What that's about. And it's not about the three spheres of emptiness. No.

And probably not. What's the first part of the sentence? Desamji deshin shekpe.

Oh, that's the. They don't cut off their efforts. It's the same thing.

After that.

[Speaker 2]
Right, right, right. They don't stop teaching, basically. They keep talking.

They keep doing these different turnings of the wheel because. And then there's three turnings because we need to. They need to say a bunch of different things.

Because people have different terrible predispositions.

[Speaker 1]
They have different natures. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, cool. In order to get them to enter the land of the Buddhas. The Buddha paradises.

[Speaker 2]
That's. Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
So those were the differences.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, cool. That was amazing, Upala, that you. I know that you were sick and you're probably feeling a little rough about the class.

But I think that you pulled that together in a way that was really amazing. At least for these nerds. I mean, all 200 of us in the call.

Hey, there's a little nerd.

[Speaker 1]
Just kidding. Oh, wow.

[Speaker 2]
Look at you.

[Speaker 1]
Hi, Amuly. Do you want to see a baby? A toddler?

You're so blonde, baby. Stick around. Amuly is coming to see you.

Say hi, Bobo. Oh, my gosh. Hi.

She's a toddler. She wants to watch Bluey, but she's stuck with this. Can you hear Bluey in the background?

Sorry to keep you from Bluey. Sometimes it's a close competition. Let's just remember that as we close this off and KJJ, what's happened is that some guy came along and said, wait, the three turnings of the wheel.

I mean, basically, he's coming with that intention that the three turnings of the wheel are not about the way he talked about the nature of reality. They're not divided that way. And that's because it says in this sutra, this story.

So that the opponent is going to come back and say, OK, I just told you this story. I just told you this quote from the sutra. And now that proves that it's really and we got to know what it is that they think it proves.

Right. And it's going to have something to do with that the Buddha ended with this one. And that's what he finally meant.

He ended with the third turning. And that's the end of the process of refinement. Right.

That's where everyone has to get to. And KJJ, as we might expect, is going to come back and say, basically, you don't understand what the Buddha is saying. That's not what he was saying.

And he's going to talk about why that's so. Thank you for your patience with me. And thank you for allowing me to struggle through this.

And I owe you all a huge debt of gratitude and, you know, my first born, which I'll never have. So you're out of luck. So now you can give a nice 15 minute discussion.

Now we can talk for 15 minutes about something that you heard in this metaphor. And maybe in the wrapping up of the metaphor by the Buddha, or maybe in differences in wording, if you want to go that way, and how you can use that in your life to get the heck out of suffering. Like, how can we use this in our practice to become enlightened or maybe even just advance a little bit on the path?

[Speaker 2]
Venerable Utpala, I have a comment.

[Speaker 1]
I was thinking, you know, we always look at when bad karma ripens as a sort of purification. And then we just sit with that. And it's like, okay, so it's a purification.

[Speaker 2]
But this passage reminded me that the Buddha is constantly working on us all the time. So it's not like, oh, one bad karma ripened, and I got a purification, and I don't know what that means.

[Speaker 1]
It's more like putting this in context, that everything I do all day long is in some way trying to purify all of the, what should I say, crap that's in me, you know, and just inch by inch, bit by bit, just get it out of me so that I can become a lighter being that, as you say, can be, can reach my goal, you know. So in each, like each purification, and each time we practice the Dharma, we are, in a sense, refining ourselves. Yeah, instead of it being like one unpleasant activity that we put behind us, we look at it as more of a welcome and constant, maybe more subtle thing that's happening to us as we enter the path and go down the path.

It becomes less, like, you don't have to get so upset about it, you know, it's just like a normal process. It's like, wow, this is great, sort of. Yeah, like, yay, I have just purified something that was, you know, really annoying.

And, you know, actually, it was more subtle of an annoyance than previous annoyances I've had, where I've been angry for a week at somebody or whatever, you know, back before coming in touch with the Dharma, or a year. Yeah, that, yeah, okay, cool.

[Speaker 2]
So it becomes a normal, everyday practice process, you know, it's like, cool.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yeah, being sick is a huge purification. And yeah, great.

That's great. Thank you, Christine.

[Speaker 2]
I mean, I'll share just a little bit. Please. Oh, just a moment.

Oh, Amalie really wants everybody to know, especially Word, that she's four and a half.

[Speaker 1]
Four and a half? She said to tell the toddler's daddy. Tell her you're 65 and a 12th.

Happy birthday.

[Speaker 2]
So what I was going to say is, just in a really basic way, I mean, I think that one thing that we can always take from something like this is that, like, how do we apply the three turnings?

[Speaker 1]
But I think one of the best ways to plant the seeds to understand any of this is to share what we know, or to share as much as we know.

[Speaker 2]
And as Mixed Nuts, it's kind of one of our jobs to do our best to share what we understand in this stuff. It's, you know, definitely moving into the future, one of our jobs. And I think it's really important as we learn how to share these ideas to kind of do our best to understand the needs of any students that we may have and, you know, not cut short and not overwhelm them.

It's pretty basic, but I think it's important because in my life, I remember when I first started learning about emptiness, and I was so excited. And I wanted to spread the gospel of emptiness to everyone I ever met. And I remember sharing these ideas with a friend of mine who was maybe not totally in the place where it would work for him to hear that.

And I think it did hurt him, actually. You know, he decided that, yeah, because everything's his fault, then all the bad things that have ever happened to him in his life, as he suspected, were his fault. And it caused him, like, really severe depression.

I mean, he was already experiencing severe depression. It wasn't just that, but it wasn't helpful at best, you know, me having. So, I mean, just assessing, you know, we make amazing seeds, I think, by sharing these ideas, but also being careful to assess what would be the best way to proceed with people.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I had a similar thing with, but a different set of teachings. It was before I reached Buddhist teachings. It was another set of teachings, and they talked about emptiness in a very similar way of things, you know, that a table is not a table.

It depends on how you look at it and what, you know, what you use it for, basically, is what it is. And I invited my parents to some of these teachings, and my father, unfortunately, had a psychotic break because of it. He just could not, his mind could not take it in.

Things were things. Wow, wow. And it took me a long time to, of course, I purified, purified, purified, but to my relationship with him, you know, it was very challenging after that, because he thought I was insane, and I hurt him.

So, yeah, we need to be very careful what it is we share with people. There's a nice rule of thumb that I always think about, just from the earliest days of Michael, that from the first moments I heard him teaching, that if you teach emptiness, the next words out of your mouth should be about kindness, about love, about virtue, about service. Of course, we can say morality, but sometimes also taking a cue from him.

I prefer the words kindness, love, caring for one another. Of course, I mean morality. Of course, I mean virtue.

But that if those are not the very, if you're sharing this with someone, those have to be the very next words out of your mouth, and always, and you can't get lazy about it. And I have, I've seen it happen. I've done it.

I've made the mistake. You do it 100 times, and then the 101st time, you think you've got the knack for it, and you forget one time that someone in that room wasn't there when you said, and that's why this world can receive. There is a void that is available to be filled by your loving action.

And we'll mess up, but the stakes are really high. And I know, another thing that I remember Geshe Michael saying once, it's, you may feel underqualified, but there's, it's like, it's like the world has a spiritual cancer or something of thinking about themselves, and doctors are few and far between, and you're needed. And you may not be the best.

You would like to have more qualification. I would like to have more qualification, but you're what's available. And you have to act.

If you're the one on the plane, and there's no other doctors on the plane to help somebody, and we're all on the plane, we're all going down on the plane. And if you're nearby, you have to help, and you're going to do it imperfectly. But just remember the one thing, it's all, you can teach these beautiful, profound ideas, and they're earth shattering, and they're trippy, right?

Like whatever, like an acid trip, like we said, and that can be fun and exciting for those of us who are grounded again and again in love, but terrifying if you're not, if you feel alone in that space, and you're not alone. I love what Nick said. Also, we're here.

I had a friend recently who came and asked me some philosophical questions, and they were so apologetic. They said, I'm sorry. I'm sorry to be bothering you with this.

I know that you do this, and you deal with this all the time, and I hate to bother you with these questions. And I thought, oh no, we're sitting around waiting for you to ask. So don't be shy to reach out to mix nuts, and to each other.

We're just waiting for you to ask, so please, it's what we're here for. And we want friends to share with, not just that we're here to help you, though if that's the way you want to look at it, great, but we're also here because we want friends that want to talk about this. And if you have questions, then I get to talk about it with you more, and I get to think about it more.

I need friends like you who are sitting back, afraid to ask. Don't be shy. Reach out to mix nuts.

We're here. We're just waiting for you to ask. And how else could we create a Buddha paradise where we're sitting as an enlightened being surrounded by 10th level bodhisattvas talking about dharma 24-7?

That's how we create it. Yeah, I look forward to that day. It might look a little bit something like this.

Hopefully it's not Zoom separated, or Zoom connected. Hopefully it's more, well, it'll probably be a whole different thing. Gosh, what do I know?

Well, right now, Utpala, you are emanating yourself to 165 homes across the world. You are in all of those places. They can hear you, and they can see you.

So they say there comes a day where they could even touch you, pinch you, give and get a hug from you. I look forward to the day when we don't abandon Zoom. We just make it even better.

We have the ultimate Buddha Zoom. I like that a lot. Thank you.

We must be moving in that direction.

[Speaker 2]
We must be.

[Speaker 1]
It has to be the only reasonable explanation of what you see before you. Wow, so we should all rejoice about that, man. That's incredible to have that experience.

Boy, dedicate that for more and better. I thought Zoom was expensive. Now I think it's worth every penny.

Cheap, dirt cheap. Dirt cheap, exactly. Cheap at any cost.

Well, thank you all again for your participation today. Thank you for your interest in these teachings. Thank you for practicing these teachings.

It's really incredible for me to be around all of you. Thank you. Thank you for a very thorough preparation of a thorough explanation.

You put some wonderful work into helping us all today in this exploration. And it's of great value. The time that you spent before this was of great value to us.

Absolutely. So happy. And my understanding.

Oh, I'm sorry. I got lost. We don't have a translator standing by in the English channel for you.

I'm sorry. A little birdie just flew by and did sign language, telling me that someone is having a birthday tomorrow. Is that true, Ben?

Somebody is always having a birthday tomorrow. You're turning 16 tomorrow? I'm turning 874 tomorrow.

It's even more impressive than 16. Divided by, I don't know, 790. Somewhere in between there.

That's just a guess. So I wish you the best of birthdays, my dear brother. Thank you.

Thank you for your experience. Be marvelous and bring you great joy and be filled with love. And delight.

And laughter. I'll take it. Thank you.

Happy birthday, Ben.

[Speaker 2]
We'll spare you the Zoom singing for your birthday.

[Speaker 1]
Yes. It's never good. So now next is, if he's around.

[Speaker 2]
Juan Hasso is ready.

[Speaker 1]
Juan Hasso with the Peachtree News. I apologize, Juan, for taking these two minutes into your time. No, no, no, no.

Thank you so much. And you used them well. Congratulating Ben for his birthday.

Bringing joy to all that. We love him as well. So it's great.

And yeah, good to see you all. I'm very soon going back to United States, to Sedona area. Geshe Michael and some other friends are actually just now flying over there.

Getting closer and closer. So right now, technically, Geshe-la is flying in the sky along with other of our friends. And just wanted to share with you that we had a very wonderful, successful Dharma party happening in Kyoto and also other places in Asia.

DSEU just finished their last sessions yesterday. The official sessions yesterday. There is a poster about it.

I mean, it's just their website. But if you ever feel interested and you want to know more, maybe participating on their programs, you can follow their QR code. You go to their website.

And I think eventually you can sign up. There has to be some link over there to do it. And of course, you can always just talk to Xiaoping about it.

If you are interested to participate, I'm sure she will give you information of what's the deal over there. I also want to say with the next picture, please, that just a reminder that very, very soon Earl is representing YSI. He's going to be guiding this talk.

It's happening at the end of this week. Actually, in about, what is it? Six days from now.

June 29, June 30. The Inner Kingdom teachings. Bringing back when Geshe-la was teaching during his three-year retreat.

And also during the next month, at the middle of next month, Stanley Chen is going to be having their first sessions for the Innovation Retreat. It's a new program, a new, how to say, system where the idea is get ourselves into retreat mood to start coming up with creative ideas, how we can improve our personal and business professional lives. It's going to be a very interesting initiative.

If you feel interested, you can follow the QR code. They can tell you more information. Okay.

So because today we have a special interview with someone, I want to move quickly and show you, I think it's the next picture, some of the things that happened over here. Oh, well, before that, yeah. Wait, is that the right order?

I guess it's the right order. Just to let you know, on July the 10th to the 17th, some of our teachers from ALL, YSI and Raw Diamonds are organizing a tour and a retreat in Borobudur. It's going to be very, very cool event.

And we have the next picture is the QR code, but we also have a short video, not talking about it, an interview with one of the producers and organizers Joanne Lin who was inviting the audience to check this out. If the video is available, we can show it quickly. It's just one minute.

And here we are with our friend Joanne Lin.

[Speaker 2]
Hello, I'm Joanne Lin. Nice to see you all.

[Speaker 1]
And she's organizing a very cool event in Borobudur soon. So can you tell us a little bit about that and maybe tell us when is it going to happen?

[Speaker 2]
Sure. Wow, we are so excited about that because this is actually a program organized by Raw Diamonds with YSI and also ALL.

[Speaker 1]
So three of us are working together. We had a great successful retreat in Nepal last year.

[Speaker 2]
And this year we are starting a new program in Borobudur.

[Speaker 1]
So that's good news and big news for everybody. Great. And when is it going to happen?

What date? That would be in July, Chinatown. That would be from July the 10th to 17th.

So everybody is so welcome to come.

[Speaker 2]
Join the special yoga and meditation program. And also we will have some special visit to Borobudur. That was wonderful.

[Speaker 1]
So there you go. If you're interested for the Borobudur trip, I'm going to show you the QR code. And it's interesting because nowadays ALL and YSI, Raw Diamonds, this time they are co-producing the event and giving some very cool teachings as well.

This is the second year they do something like that. And last year they also did a collaboration with YSI and ALL going to Nepal, then having some programs in some places in India. Very, very cool.

So you can follow the QR codes if you feel interested. And just before our interview, I want to show you a video of the last program YSI and Prema had in Kyoto. If Erli is around, I hope he's going to be happy with their results.

So if we have the video, just to share with you a little bit of what happened in Kyoto regards YSI and Prema. Hope you enjoy.

[Speaker 2]
So how can we understand where we're at? We need to understand where we're going. Natural breathing.

[Speaker 1]
Natural breathing. Hey guys. I just hear from the audience that you guys describe very, very well the problems of meditation.

Is it because you have had them yourself sometimes?

[Speaker 2]
You know, I was thinking about this today, I was thinking like there's very, very few things that I feel like I know more than Geshe Michael about. But I think I know more than him about crappy meditation. When we're talking about the problems of meditations and dullness, I think I know more than Geshe Michael.

[Speaker 1]
He likes to say that the captain who crashes the ship knows where the rocks are. Now the good news is like people were actually enjoying the such in-detail descriptions. So in a way, thank you so much for crashing your ship there.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, all that ship crashing has paid off.

[Speaker 1]
Hello, my name is Veronica. I'm from Taiwan. Last year, I became a wi-fi distributor.

And this event is really amazing. I really like all the course design of Prima. Yes, they design living Buddha yoga and also meditation, very detailed.

And also we can travel around the temples in Kyoto. And we see a lot of beautiful scenes here.

[Speaker 2]
Hi, my name is Yuki. But I'm now living in New York. And I'm also now is the director of Chinese language division from YSI.

I think what I can share about this retreat, I think we were teaching about how to train your mind. And then the meditation taught by Earl, which is really helpful for the people who is waiting to develop their abilities in meditation. And then what's special is for December, we are planning to plan the events in the mountains, which have really strong environment about what we learn.

So I think in that specific area, we definitely get a strong connection with the theory and with our physical practice.

[Speaker 1]
So I hope everyone can come and join us on December. 世界本該是你城市的模樣 左眼的悲傷右眼的倔強看起來都一樣 原來你就是我走失的地方 左手的你右手的你讓我窒息的歡笑 世界本該是你城市的模樣 左手的你右手的你讓我窒息的歡笑 原來你就是我走失的地方 左手的你右手的你讓我窒息的歡笑 原來你就是我走失的地方 左手的你右手的你讓我窒息的歡笑 There you go. That was pretty much the retreat on YSI and Errol Benji and many of the organizers did an amazing, amazing job.

So just to finish, I want to talk quickly with Christina Kasica because she started the classes on Sanskrit. And she may be here just to tell us a little bit about how did it go and what's the plan for the next few weeks. We're going to share with you the poster.

How are you, Christina? Great. Great.

Hi, Juan. How are you? Good.

Thank you. It's also 1.30 a.m. morning time in Japan. Oh, well, thank you for being with us.

Thank you as well. So tell us, you had last Thursday your first class on the Sanskrit series. How did you feel about it?

How did it go? And what's your plan like content-wise for the next few weeks? Well, that's quite a question.

Wonderful. Well, we had our first organic Sanskrit class, Class 1 of Series 1, this past Thursday. And they're going to be every Thursday for nine more weeks at 9 o'clock in the morning, World Central Time, which is Arizona time, as we all know.

[Speaker 2]
And I think it went really well. We had somewhere between 50 and 100 people. I don't have the final number.

[Speaker 1]
And they were all over the world, which is very interesting. As you try to teach a foreign language in English, people who don't know the foreign language don't necessarily speak English. So these are very brave, wonderful people studying this.

It's great. Very nice. And what do you plan to cover in this series of nine weeks?

Well, we're calling it organic Sanskrit.

[Speaker 2]
And this is a name that Geshe Michael loves.

[Speaker 1]
And I am not a student of Tibetan, but I believe that he teaches Tibetan in a very organic way. And what this means is we don't take a traditional university approach to teaching Sanskrit.

[Speaker 2]
We are going to wander around and choose interesting and important things to teach and over some time people will get a good understanding of Sanskrit.

[Speaker 1]
But for example, on Thursday, we started not with any papers or pens or telling any rules, but we started with sound because Sanskrit is a sound based language. So we spent the first part of the class just making noise. Learning to pronounce the alphabet?

We're going to do that. We started with the letter A, which of course in Sanskrit is not A.

[Speaker 2]
It is a.

[Speaker 1]
And we learn to draw it and we learn to say it and we learn to recite the alphabet song. And next time we are going to talk about the long and the short of it. As you know, Juan, from taking Mixed Nuts classes, it's very important in Sanskrit to know which letters are long and which are short and how to say them.

That's wonderful, Christina. So congratulations first to having started this project and having your first class. That's very, very cool.

Very, very exciting. And here we are sharing the poster. So as far as I understand, the way it's going to work is if you're interested to attend the classes, you get yourself into the Telegram chat where information on details about Zoom link, timing, content, and how it works regards because it's also as far as I understand, some of the intent of this is to keep fundraising for the Mixed Nuts project.

So everything, all the information related to get yourself inside the Good Night Book Club and how to donate and stuff, it's going to be there. Is that correct? Just the idea is for anyone who wants to participate, follow the QR code, get into the Telegram chat, and there you're going to get whatever you need to attend the classes.

[Speaker 2]
Yes, that is my understanding. Now, this course was organized by Inna Ivanina under the auspices of Nikola Shaw of Diamond Cutter Classics.

[Speaker 1]
And one of Inna's main ideas is to get everyone to participate to some degree in the Good Night Book Club. However, I want to make it clear to people that even a tiny contribution will get you entrance admission into organic Sanskrit. So it's not something you should worry about if you don't have $30 a month.

Go to this link and you will see that you will still be able to join very easily. Thank you very much, Cristina. And soon I will contact you because I think it will be interesting to hear more about your Sanskrit, how to say, progression, education, development.

And you can share with all of us a little bit of your personal story on that. So soon it will be great to have you again and to keep hearing how this project is going. For now, you know, time flies and I'll be flying tomorrow.

So it's good to see you all. Is any other activity happening today? Is Word teaching today or no?

I think no, right? Now it's only Mondays. OK, so thank you all.

Thank you very much. Happy birthday, Ben. We'll be sharing your birthday poster on Monday, I guess, I hope.

See you all. Best regards. See you soon.