Бетси Грир — Книга 2: Интерлюдия о пустоте, занятие 46

[Speaker 2]
Yay.

[Speaker 1]
Welcome to the last quiz of the term. Way. Yeah, I know.

What is it that fosters over and over again. The potentials for articulation that men jockey backtalk referring to things again and again the way that we do.

[Speaker 2]
That's one way of putting it.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah conceptual cognition thinking again that visible form appears to exist in the way it appears to the eye consciousness is totally what I meant.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, exactly.

[Speaker 1]
That's what I thought. So, K to J throughout this section of this text repeatedly uses the phrase talk patient she. The thing you think is there.

What does he tell us he's not referring to when he uses the phrase. The thing you perceive is there. Very nice.

He's not referring to seeing the object you perceive. And why, why does he need to clarify this.

[Speaker 2]
You remember. I remember. There's some reason I put the Tibetan there.

[Speaker 1]
Because the soft doesn't because it could be talks like something to do with the sound of that word but it's not the fact that it doesn't have a saw. Is it like he's not referring to the blue itself but the blue that you think is outside. He's, he's makes it clear because the word talk back and also mean to see.

Yeah, or, or to proceed with your sense power. Yeah. Please describe briefly, the difference between what those are the sutra school, and the mind only school mean when they each say, the thing you think is there does not exist by definition.

And when you do so please use the word that each uses for that thing. First one the driver, the sutra school, I can't remember if this is the same class or not. Sorry.

We didn't have any drivers in this. It's wrong. Wrong.

Um, is this by definition toxic wrong watching. No. Let's see the suit just and then maybe the mind only will come.

Blue is not the object. By definition, meaning not independently. So then mind only would say blue is not the basis by definition, meaning, not externally.

You're playing between you and she. Yep. Okay.

Okay.

[Speaker 2]
I guess I didn't play very well sorry.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, isn't, isn't not independently wrong watching them. Is now what independently in the sutra school is in Tibet. I, well, he's, he's saying they can also use the phrase around kitsune Kima Dupa phrase they use.

I think he, he is saying that they use that phrase also. Thank you. Thank you.

Yeah, that's what, by definition, that's how I translate. Thank you so much. So please give the English or Tibetan equivalent for what appears on the screen.

Easy to understand. Nothing. Okay, please give the Tibetan for easy to understand.

Meet you will meet you. What they want. They said that.

Oscar.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, Oscar.

[Speaker 1]
Oscar unbelievable. By the way, you guys please don't don't pronounce that with a G. Go.

I tried this morning to get people to stay home. Combo but I don't know why call your door go there. Oh, yeah, go there.

That would be quite a nasty word actually. Okay. Okay, moving on.

The Tibetan for briefly. Okay. That's good.

Something to teach me how to convert the Roman into Tibetan script.

[Speaker 3]
Isn't there a program for this.

[Speaker 1]
I don't know how you do it. Type it, because I like to type it. Oh, I see.

Meet some pig. The reason is not. The reason doesn't agree.

Reasoning isn't the same. Yeah, very good. Hey, look a patch of blue.

Yeah. Wait a second. Yeah, you don't do both.

[Speaker 2]
Hold on, I gotta get the right thing open first.

[Speaker 1]
By the way, we're at home today because it's snowing all over the place here. Oh wow. Yeah, and the deer out in the snow that must be beautiful.

Yeah, I asked everybody not to drive today. So, um, I was only able to do this because of the extreme kindness of venerable guilty, who, because I stepped on my glasses and they broke. See, she went and got them fixed for me.

Wow, cool. Me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me

[Speaker 3]
Okay, cool.

[Speaker 1]
By the way, happy VY day to all of you VY people. Today is VY day and have a happy VY day. Happy VY day.

Okay. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Okay. I want you to give me— show me where is bak chak tendrim because I'm really interested in it.

I'm not sure you call it dendrim. Bak chak tendrim. Okay.

It's why we can call visible form visible form.

[Speaker 3]
Why do I not have it here? It was there when I wrote it.

[Speaker 1]
Well, sometimes they jump out before we have class. Shoot. Maybe I put it down here.

And why I mention it is that it took me a very long time in my life to figure out that... Oh, I have. I put it down there.

How do you translate it? Potentials for... I'm sorry.

I would... Oh, yeah, I translated. Yeah.

The visible form is a cognitive basis. It does not exist by definition. I'm not talking merely of the...

[Speaker 2]
Yes, so it should be somewhere.

[Speaker 1]
I'm not even sure it's spelled right. I'm not sure. Let me see.

DE BZHIN DOG TU GYUR PA, BAG CHAGS BSTAN BYUNG No, I totally missed it. There's something wrong here. There's something missing here.

After BAG CHAGS BSTAN BYUNG, right? What I want you guys to learn... Who can tell me what is BAG CHAGS BSTAN BYUNG?

That was the synonym for the NGON CHUG GI BAG CHAGS. Yeah, and it took me so long to figure that out. What does BSTAN imply without an E?

Firm. Firm, strong. Right, a firmly held seed.

Yeah, because it's billions of years, it's some kind of concrete... I don't know, super concrete seed. Try to remember that when you guys translate.

It refers to the NGON CHUG GI BAG CHAGS. Because that's especially firm in your mind because it's been billions of years. There should be, Utpala, in my opinion, at least an instrumental after that.

Right, due to a firmly planted seed. Yeah, so I would ask you to check the carving. By the way, when I ask you guys to check a carving, please always have two carvings ready, two different carvings.

Okay? Assuming one of them might be wrong. Yeah, for this GYI.

Now I feel like it has to be G-I-S. Yeah, GYI GYI GYI SA GYI. GYI BAG CHAGS DRIN DRIN GYI DBANG Due to that seed of countless lifetimes, it looks like the objects exist in the way that it appears to us to exist, right?

As being the natural referent of the word, whatever, visible, right? Yeah. GZUGS KYI DPER LA DPER LA I wanted to point out that a third syllable in a BYAS PA PO, BYAS PA PO means a construction which is an agent.

The third syllable, it's an option to say WA instead of BA. Like, if you're from HWASA, you should call yourself a? HWASA WA.

HWASA WA. So you see sometimes in scripture they are invoking that rule, and instead of saying DO DE PA, they'll say DO DE WA. And you shouldn't correct it.

Okay. Although it might be a mistake sometimes. Okay.

Okay. So DE BA'I LUG LA According to the Sutra system, and what they're saying... Yeah, well actually, let me see down here.

In contrast, in the Sutra system, they assert that the archons are mistaken with regard to the object of priesthood. Like in NAM SU LTAR RANG GI DRIN GYI Therefore, it must exist away. Yeah, good.

Good. Nice translation. So what it means is that in the lower school, if something appears to your sense consciousnesses, it must be real.

Okay? It must exist by definition. And I think they would exclude yellow snow mountains and things like that.

Great. No, really. What was the other classic example?

Conch shell that was yellow? Yeah, and there's some other example. Anyway, yeah.

I mean, you could get sick. Your senses could be screwed up. But normally speaking, if something...

I think the point is, in the second school, your senses cannot lie to you, unless there's something extraordinary going on. You have a serious illness. Or there's an illusion created by the rowboat moving past the trees, and it looks like the trees are walking.

That's the other example. Okay? Except for extraordinary boo-boos, normally your eyes don't lie to you.

Your eyes don't have opinions. They're just reporting what's in front of them. And so in the lower school, wang che is important here.

Sense perceptions are pretty much natural, and there's nothing you can say about them. And then in the mind-only school, even your sense perceptions will lie to you and say that the blue is... Outside of you.

Outside, yeah. Or it's called blue by nature or something like that. Yeah, and by the way, when you get to Sugeng's text, a major topic is that it's not just link number one and link number two that are messed up.

They're all messed up. Your equipment is defective. Your sensory equipment is polluted with these old bak chak tenjungs.

And even your eyes are lying to you, and your ears are lying to you, and even your eyes are giving you a sense that things exist out there on their own, right? So that's what they're talking about here. They're leading up to this amazing idea that...

And by the way, what's the implication of that for $100? If even your senses are lying to you, $100. You've never had a correct perception in your life.

I want something else. And everything else is too. No, I want something else.

Connect it to the wheel of life. Then everything after that is also mistaken on the wheel? Okay, cancel that.

Cancel that bet. No, it means it's going to be extremely hard to get out of it. Because even your eyes are lying to you, and your ears are lying to you, and your nose is lying to you.

How are you going to get out? If that's true, then the only hope we have is mixed nuts classes. Seriously.

That's the only hope you have. Because even your eyes will never be able to detect it. All right, you got more here for us?

Oh gosh, you gave me three really hard questions. Yeah, that's so I don't have to do it myself. I love your last sentence.

That's a perfect translation. This is a huge difference. Yeah, I like the italics for...

For a shintu. Shintu, good. Yeah, nice.

I so like it when you can be creative in... It's a translation. Using the italics is translating.

Yeah, good. Really. And even the placement of words on the page is translating.

You know? Yeah, so the main point of that first sentence being that the way that your sense consciousnesses hold objects they believe that the blue is out there by nature. That's their dzin-tang.

That's their normal mode. That's how they normally see things. Your eyes in the second school normally perceive things as if those things existed by nature.

And in dead school, that perception is dzin-tang. Yeah, dzin-tang means... Yeah, which means not mistaken.

It is... What do you call that, dzin-tang? You could say consistent, I guess.

It's not inconsistent with its object. It's not that the object is appearing one way and the perception is taking it a different way, which would be dzin-mitun. The way the object really exists and the way the perception is taking the object are compatible, or they're the same.

Right? Good. Deer, in that deer...

Unfortunately, he doesn't often tell you what school you're in. He just says here, okay? Here in the mind only.

That your sense powers tend to believe that the blue exists by definition. And here in the mind only school... Here...

Yeah, okay. In the way that appears to... Yeah, good.

Good. Yeah, nice. Huge difference, right?

Can you summarize the difference in plain English? In slow, plain English? Just don't even look at the Tibetan.

What's he saying? The sutras say that what you see exists the way you see it. Mind only says if you think that things exist the way you see it, that's grasping to a self-nature to things.

Yeah, okay, good. Can you get in Ranggitsa Niketupa there? What?

Here? Yeah, in both sentences. Yeah, it's in both.

Oh, you mean in my description? Yeah, in your eyes closed... You want me to do it again?

Okay, the sutras say that that things... that the way you... that things exist the way you see them by definition and that matches the way the object is.

Good, okay. Mind only says that if you think that what you see exists the way it appears by definition, then what you're doing is grasping to a self-nature to things. Yeah, so...

Sorry. In the lower school, if you see blue as blue from its own side, that's just natural and that's correct. And in the higher school, it is causing you all of your pain.

That's weird. Yeah, that's really weird. Yeah, okay, yeah.

Why? Because you don't understand the blue... When you see the blue, you're watching your own mind.

What's that got to do with pain? If you don't understand that the blue is in your own mind, you won't have a compelling reason to be nice to other people. Okay, cool.

Yeah. Yeah, good. Yeah, and it is correct.

It's weird, but it's correct. Yeah. Therefore, the appearance of the eye consciousness of form being established by its very nature as the basis on which the words for essence and characteristics are placed is a distorted way of appearing.

Good. Good. I like the distorted way of appearing that arises due to the potentials for ignorance.

Good. Okay, even so, that eye consciousness is not set to be an obstacle to our missions or grasping to us. Nice, very nice translation.

Yeah, very nice translation. Very difficult. Thank you.

What's it mean? I mean, yeah, your eye consciousness, your visual consciousness, is messed up. It's doing something wrong.

But that's not what's keeping you from...

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, that's not what's keeping you from seeing things the right way.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, that's not classical ignorance. Okay? The misperception of the universe by your physical senses is, we don't call it...

You see, he said, mi ma means we don't call it, or it's not said to be the grasping to a self nature, right? We don't call it that, okay? I used a passive voice there, because I couldn't find a subject.

Like, who was saying that? Well, it's understood in my knowledge school. They wouldn't call it.

It means they wouldn't call it. Now, a hundred bucks if you give me the force of the apostrophe I. Because it's weird, at the end of a sentence, why should you have an apostrophe S?

Is it a butt? Yeah, it's a butt, okay? By the way, that bet was only offered to Miss Utpala.

[Speaker 2]
What?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I'm sorry. For you, I have a different standard. For you, it's ten cents.

Okay, so it would have been key. Yeah, so what it means is, the sentence has to end with, but rather, dot dot dot. Okay, and now he's going to say something like, the real ignorance is different.

Cool, let's go there. Yeah, let's go there right away. Why do we have two tough texts in a row?

Maybe they're all tough. I don't know what it is. Maybe.

I'm just whining, okay? Don't worry. Don't take me seriously.

Some people say, oh, he's a Lama, we should make all the texts easy for him. A few wines. Where are we?

300. Yeah. Me, my, but rather, 300.

Who's going to read? Venerable Chunzun. Yes, let's make those venerables suffer.

What happened? No, it's happiness. Thank you.

Wait, something happened. Something happened? Oh.

What section are we on? 300. 300.

I'm sorry, my thing's skipping around. I want to stop, break it here. Wangshe-la nang su dey ta drupa dzunpay tokpa nyi dro nduk dang Yeah, good.

Yeah. The fact that the sense power is misperceiving things is not the true ignorance. What's the true ignorance then?

It's the tokpa you have about that. Oh, yeah, so it's the thought you have. Yeah, it's how you feel about it, okay?

Yes, the eye, the eye awareness of what you're seeing is making a mistake, but that's not the ignorance that's turning the wheel of life. What's turning the wheel of life is thinking that that's true, thinking that that's the way it is, okay? The way it appears to my eye awareness is, in fact, the way it really is.

And if you zin that, well, that's classical drondok, okay? I think overestimation is what we've been provisionally translating it as. It means you're seeing something there which is...

Not there. Not there. What are you seeing there that's not there that the blue exists naturally?

Okay? And your eye consciousness is suggesting to you that the blue is existing naturally, but don't blame it on the eye consciousness. It's how you interpret that suggestion.

And so we don't call the eye consciousness itself is not the guilty party. It's how you tokpa the eye consciousness, how you think about the eye consciousness, okay? Which is how you think about the eye consciousness, and you agree with it.

Detar drupar. You see? When you agree with your eye consciousness, that's when you get in trouble.

Okay? All right. We can cut it here, and you can torture somebody else.

No, it's not torture. It's fun. It's fun torture.

Berta, would you like to please read? I'd love to. Thank you.

chuky dak zing dang zin dang zin heavy prenasal, dang zin dang zin dang she trig nyon gyur du du do pa yin chik du pa yin chik Very good. Thank you. Hey, Berta, am I allowed to tell people what your son's occupation used to be?

No, that's fine.

[Speaker 3]
Thank you so much.

[Speaker 1]
It's not classified? No. Oh, her son is in charge of the president's airplane.

Just so you guys know. In case you ever need a private plane, just talk to her.

[Speaker 3]
Which president?

[Speaker 1]
Obama, I think. Right?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, it was Obama in the beginning of Trump, but he's not there anymore.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, he's lucky.

[Speaker 3]
He's moving to California now.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, that's a better place to visit your grandkids. All right. What's it mean?

What's it mean, Utpala, chukidangdzin? You want to know what's the real chukidangdzin? And you want to know what's the real shidib?

It's that dro... It's that dro... ...dok. ...dok. Okay, now translate it into English. You want to know what the real grasping to a self nature to things and the real optical to omniscience is? It's that overestimation that things are the way... thinking that things are the way they appear to your eyes.

Nice, good. Believing what the line that your eyes tell you. Believing the line that your eyes tell you is the real grasping to the self nature of things and is the real obstacle to your becoming enlightened.

Okay, cool. By the way, the chukidangdzin is much more serious than the kansaki dangdzin. To misunderstand all the stuff in the world is relatively more serious than to misunderstand who you are.

He's saying, look, your eyes are lying to you, yes, but that's not the real problem. The problem is that you believe it. Which implies there should be a place called gyumatabu where your eyes are still lying to you, but you don't believe it.

And what's gyumatabu mean? I don't know. Maya.

That's called the illusion stage of the path of seeing. Yeah, that's the real meaning of Maya or illusion in Buddhism. Your eyes are lying to you.

You think the blue is coming from its own side, but you don't believe it anymore. That's the only illusion in Buddhism. Geshe-la, here again we've got a verb without a subject.

Which one? Dipa. Oh, it's believed by us mind only guys.

Okay, all right. Yeah, you could add by the mind only school there. Okay, all right, thank you.

Okay, who's going to read next? Oh, Rebecca. Excuse me.

Is that your thinking cap, Rebecca? Yeah, it's my reading cap. So jigme has holes in her roof or something?

[Speaker 2]
No, it's to protect the holes in my head.

[Speaker 1]
All right. Thank you.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, good. Utpala, we got to start with ne chi. Okay, the solitary essential thing?

This means those two things are ne chi. Two ideas and ne chi. They amount to the same thing.

They amount to the same thing. First of all, we have to say that this sentence is going to have two different ideas. Then we're going to say in the mind only school, they equal each other.

They amount to the same thing. So now I have to just go look for the two ideas. Hopefully what we did already was number one.

Well, here's a dung, right? Oh, there was a dung at the end of that one too. Yeah, so everything in front of the dung should amount to...

That's what ne chi means. Ne chi means should amount to everything that comes after the dung, okay?

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
So now we just have to figure out the two things that are equal. The two things that... It's saying the same thing with different words, okay?

Two things here are saying the same thing with different words. That's all he's saying. Now we have to figure out the two things, right?

Here's the first one. DGOS PA DE GZHAN ZHIG THAG THAG NYID DUNG DRUG PA DGOS PA means we deny what? We deny that...

That things exist in the way that that DGOS PA GZHAN BAS.

[Speaker 2]
In the way that that conception thinks about it.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, things don't exist the way your sense perception, DGOS PA, okay? Things don't exist the way you think they exist. And then he says something weird.

He says, even THAG NYID DUNG. Oh, even conventionally. Yeah, even conventionally speaking.

Even conventionally speaking. Even in the language of the normal world, we cannot say that the blue exists the way your mind thinks it exists. Your sense consciousness thinks it exists, okay?

So, we deny that things could exist the way your sense awarenesses think they exist, even in the normal sense. Yeah. Okay?

It seems to say, forget self-existence, blah, blah, blah. You're wrong about the blue, even without Buddhism. Yeah.

Okay? Yeah. And that amounts to the same thing as...

Here comes the next nun. WANG SHES LA, two-year WANG SHES. Wow, that visible form...

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
...is by definition the basis for... I always have to play with this.

[Speaker 2]
So, it's the way it appears...

[Speaker 1]
I'm sorry, I always have to... Is the way that blue appears to be naturally the object of the word blue, okay? To your eye awareness, blue automatically feels like it should be what you're calling blue, or what you're thinking of as blue.

I'll say it again. To your sense powers, or sense awareness, it appears that blue really is what you're thinking about as blue, okay? What you're perceiving as blue.

Blue is naturally what you're seeing as blue, okay? By the way, in the lower school, can we say blue does exist in the way it seems to your eyes to exist? I'm sorry, say again?

In the second school, can we say the blue really is the way it seems to be to your eyes? Right. And can we say that in the mind-only school, the blue is not even the way it appears to be to your eyes?

Right. Yeah, okay, that's all. So, to say that the blue is the way it appears to be to your eyes is not true even without talking about self-existence.

Right. Tanya Duong, even in the normal language of the world, you're having a false perception. Oh, I like that.

You're not seeing blue. You're not seeing blue, okay? Even in the normal world, okay?

And these two normal language statements amount to the same things. What you think you see is not there. We have to cancel what you think you see is there, even in the terms of the normal world.

And that's equivalent to saying you have to cancel the gopa in the last line. You have to cancel this idea that blue is appearing to your sense powers as blue naturally. Yeah.

Okay? And by the way, what he's kind of saying is Tanya Duong, to appear just normally to your senses, and down here, to appear normally and naturally. That's what he's saying is equivalent.

It amounts to the same thing. When you say your normal perception, your perception that blue is normal, and your perception that blue is natural, are both to be denied, and they amount to the same thing. Okay.

What Tibetan phrases are you translating as normal and natural? Normal, I'm saying Tanya Duong. Okay.

And then naturally, I'm saying Ranggit Senyi Kyi Du. Ranggit Senyi Kyi. Okay.

So I'll say it again. To think that the blue is appearing normally to me, and to think that the blue is appearing naturally to me, is the same mistake. And both of them have to be denied.

Okay? Okay. They amount to the same thing.

Okay? Okay. I love this next sentence.

You've got to pick someone special, Utpala. Well, everyone is special. This is a big good luck thing for our future.

Okay. Venerable Jigme. Ooh.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, wait. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, by the way, Jigme, you cannot read Tibetan in that house without a hat on. That's what I heard. I don't know.

Oh, here. I've got a hat. How's that?

It's got that blessing. All kinds of little creatures.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Now he's going to quote a book. Fifty bucks. Somebody tell me what book.

The Art of Interpretation. Nice. Yeah.

By... Je Tsongkapa. Yeah, by fifty bucks, you've got to collect it from the lady with the hat.

Whoever has the hat on is going to give you fifty dollars.

[Speaker 3]
Oh, Jigme, you're so funny.

[Speaker 1]
Now the hat just passed over. Okay. I've just got it now.

Now, listen to this. Okay, you ready? Here we go.

Compare these two statements. Here's number one. The essence of eloquence.

Okay? The essence of eloquence. That's number one.

Compare it to number two. You ready? That high, excellent speech, which is called the essence of the spoken excellence of dividing things into what is truly there and what only appears to be there.

Okay? It's the same thing. He's bragging about Tsongkapa's book.

He's giving it this name like you're announcing the king entering the ballroom. You know? I would like to announce the appearance.

You know? And then instead of calling it the essence of eloquence, he gives it a two-line name. Okay?

And by the way, the most telling reference here is Tsongkapa. And Tsongkapa only applies to the word of the Buddha, that highest of all spoken words. Why is he freaking out over this book?

Well, number one, his teacher wrote it. His teacher wrote it. Yeah, that's the thing.

That's the thing. So you guys have to say, the most excellent, amazing, extraordinary ACI courses. You know?

Something like that. Okay. All right.

And by the way, I went and read this section in Chang'e Lekshi Nimbo, The Essence of Eloquence. Have you translated this part yet? I don't remember.

I'm trying to figure that out. But one thing I have to say is, I'm very proud that we are treating every single important topic of Buddhism in our twelve translators. Every single important school, every single important movement in two and a half thousand years, we got it covered with these twelve people.

Except Chang'e. Chang'e. We've got to get somebody on the Chang'e, okay?

I'm thinking Gibson after he finishes the two easy things. Yeah. But that's going to complete our coverage of the classics, in a way.

I'll probably find something else later. All right. It's wrap up.

Oh, it's probably five seconds to wrap up time. Maybe we have time for one more line. I'll just say this, without reading.

I went and checked. By the way, I taught a lot of the art of interpretation to the CSP group. It was one of the first topics that we studied together, was the art of interpretation.

That's because I taught it out of the translation of Master Yensa, who was a student of Shenzang. We studied this topic from the classic, one of the most important books ever written in Chinese language. We studied it from there.

That's why we worked on it first. I'm going to teach it for New Year's. Be there or be square.

For this New Year's, January 22nd and 23rd, I will give a brief teaching on Master Yensa's statements about Mind-Only School, really. Actually, I'm going to cover more than that, but here we go. I went and checked in Tsongkhapa's book.

Where do these next quotations come from? Which section of his book? Because I thought that would help us understand them.

It's in the section of the Gakja of the Mind-Only. Specifically, it's in the Drondok part. What does that mean, Utpala?

Then you can summarize. In the exaggeration part. Yeah, the exaggeration part of Gakja.

Of the thing that we deny. Yeah, good. For example, that blue...

Is outside. Naturally. Naturally.

Yeah, something like that. Or even conventionally. Nice.

Chag tenlo. Do you want to give us any wrap-up here?

[Speaker 2]
Well, I think I already put it into normal language, right?

[Speaker 1]
Do you need a wrap-up? Give us a two-sentence wrap-up. Two sentences.

The Sutra School and the Mind-Only School are different in how they say things exist by definition. The Sutras say that things exist the way they appear, and that's consistent with its object. And the Mind-Only says that if we think things exist the way they appear to the eye consciousness by definition, if we think that way, that's going to be the cause for grasping to self-nature, and also obstacles to omniscience.

And unfortunately, Utpala, for that verb, he used tokpa again. I'm sorry. It's not very fair.

Yeah. So now he's used tokpa for three different things.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. All right, you guys.

[Speaker 3]
Thank you so much, Geshe-la. Please continue taking this book.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, or else we'll all be wondering for the rest of our lives, where is he going? And Geshe-la, you didn't translate this in Course 15, this next verse. Oh, okay.

I did translate... When we do... By the way, when we do changgye mekshe nyingpo, which is a hundred folios, which means it would take 30 terms, we have to translate the sutra also.

But we're not going to translate yinzir, because that's a 50-year thing. Okay. The whole sutra, or just the chapter on my knowledge?

Now, that's a good question. I think if you're going to translate it, you've got to do the whole thing. How long is sandhi nyamochaya?

That's pretty long. It's 10 chapters. Then what you normally read is only 10% of it.

Okay, thanks again. All right. I think Ola had a question.

I don't know about you guys. Ola, you want to ask Venerable Utpala a question?

[Speaker 3]
No, I'm setting to be the next interpreter, Geshe-la. You're sharp.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you. We can take a break. We have eight minutes left.

Yay! If you can eat in eight minutes, you're a good man. Okay.

Thank you. Thank you for class, Geshe-la. This text has been amazing.

Yeah. This was the last one for the term. Those two guys were trouble brothers.

Yeah. See you later. It's been hard.