Бетси Грир — Книга 2: Интерлюдия о пустоте, занятие 45

[Speaker 1]
Thank you. Oh, you got one more minute. Okay.

Whoa. Did you go surfing today. No, sir.

It's been raining hard here. I also injured my ring, I certainly. It's fun.

Yeah, I'm gonna get wet right. Yeah, I did. I don't only because for two reasons.

One, the way the storms have been here the waves are gigantic. Like there's like NASA, there's not a lot of waves here right now like. Okay, we don't allow the DCC director to search and big sir.

No, not like that. I mean it's been the biggest in like 20 years. A guy, a guy got killed at Navarone last week at Nazarene.

That's sad. In Portugal. Yeah, that's bad.

I'm sorry to hear that. So let's do that. Let's do this quiz in honor of him.

Okay, go for it. Human rebirth as quickly as possible. Hey, I have a vocabulary question for you.

When the waves are really good, what's the unique expression that surfers use? Cowabunga. Oh, sick.

Sick waves. Sick means great waves. Just trying to increase your vocabulary.

I thought it was Lop Chin. I wonder if there's ever been any Tibetan surfers. There must be.

You know what, there's a Tibetan mayor of Cincinnati now. Wow, that's amazing. Look it up.

After class. Connection to Cincinnati. After class.

All right, all right. Welcome to the quiz on class three of Interlude on Emptiness. Thank you for your attention, for your interest in this book, which will save your lives.

So visible form, being the basis of the words for essential nature and characteristics, is what kind of mental construct? Did KJ tell us last time? What kind of mental construct?

So remember, mental construct is one of the three. Yeah, kunthak. Yeah.

What kind of kunthak? In which school? What school?

The mind only school. Maybe kunthak. Not imaginary, the other one?

Or is it imaginary? Yeah, they're all imaginary. But there's two kinds of kunthaks.

Yep, there are two kinds of kunthaks. Yeah, there's ones that are... Yeah, I forget.

I forget what it's called. An existent mental construct. Oh, yeah.

Thank you. So please complete... Oh, please complete this thought.

When visible form appears to the eye consciousness, not only does it appear to be the basis for the words, this is visible, but it also appears as if it were... I don't get to answer. Self-existent.

There on its own? A definition? Self-existent.

Any other ideas? Exists by nature? As if it were the location where the words this is visible are placed.

Okay. He was introducing to us something that we're going to learn more about, I believe, this class, which is the distinction between a basis, she, she, and...

[Speaker 2]
Nice.

[Speaker 1]
A location or place, which is ne. And you. Or object.

And you'll, which is an object of perception. Okay. So we've been introduced to this idea of the potential for articulation.

So for time with no beginning, we've developed the mental habit of describing things the way we do. So think back over the past day or two. And if you're willing, please give an example of a distorted perception you've had that appears to be due to the influence of the potential for articulation.

And how might you incorporate working with this idea in your personal practice? So like for me, for example, I'm recently very acutely aware of what appears to be a deterioration in my eyesight. And then equating that with getting older.

So for time with no beginning, I've associated a deterioration in physical and mental capabilities with getting older. And I've done it so often that I've created an entire world where everyone seems to hold this idea that as you get older, you, it's natural to lose your, you know, your eyesight, your cognitive abilities, your hearing, your memory, etc., etc. And so tying it to this, like naming of things, this potential for naming, then thinking of naming it something else, like, it's just, it's a change in how I see.

It's a change in what I see. And if no one wants to, that's fine. Okay, we'll go on.

Do you have an example in your own life like that? I mean, I'll, if you, I'll share. I did something to my rotator cuff, really, and it really, really hurts.

And like, specifically when I lay down, so I'm having a hard time sleeping. And when I'm laying there, falling asleep, I feel angry that I did the, whatever actions I did that hurt my shoulder, rather than thinking about seeds and the fact that it's the ripening of a seed or something like that. My first response is to feel quite frustrated that I did whatever I did to hurt my shoulder.

Yeah, thank you. As I was, as I was thinking about this, I, two different challenges came to my mind. One is how to distinguish, you know, the experience that might be caused by this kind of bakchak, and from thinking of things existing self-existently.

Like that would be, that, that's a distinction to be made, right? Between the two, because this is not necessarily self-existently. This is like an explanation for what is happening and what it is that I'm perceiving, not necessarily how it exists.

You know what I mean?

[Speaker 2]
This happens to me at work all the time. Like 30%, now that I moved into like a leadership role, like, you know, people, I'm having to coach and lead. And so I have a lot of people just sort of like, they just, of course, saying this out loud, I see where it's coming from, but obviously just don't want to, they just want to do whatever they want to do.

But oftentimes the conversation is like, where I find myself going is like, hey, let's talk about culture. Let's talk about passion. Let's, you know, let's see how you sort of take in information.

But at work, I keep this next to my desk. And so I've underlined it everywhere. So I'm trying to make it a habit of like, they're picking up on it now.

Like, cause I see a problem, like, oh, interesting. And then they'll see me like in the corner, like looking at, cause my antidote, I only have one antidote and it's the Dharma, you know, like, cause I've tried everything else. Like, you know, like maybe we can talk about firing somebody.

Maybe we can talk about retraining them. And so, you know, like this class is like my antidote, you know, like there's, it's really the only thing that I can really do at the end of the day is in order for me to change, I have to come to like a translator class. Or I got to like keep my book and I got to like refer to the diamond cutter, you know, like it's a, it's like developing another different type of habit.

Cause my old habit is to sort of like, let's talk about things on the outside that we can talk about and change rather than like me changing on the inside.

[Speaker 1]
So, yeah. Cool. Thank you.

Well, it might be something to like think about for how to, you know, how to put this in practice. Cool. Okay.

Thanks. Fun question. So, please give the English if there is one for Shimantrupe Kunthak.

I'm guessing that P was not on purpose. And true. Yeah.

Huh. No, it should be a B. It should have been a B.

[Speaker 2]
In both cases. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Is this a, this is like, like imaginary Kunthak or Kunthak that can't be established by? A non-existent Kunthak.

Yeah. Yeah. What's like the two-headed purple elephant, for example?

[Speaker 2]
Right.

[Speaker 1]
Like the Gokja, right? Gokja, yeah. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
You can say that also. Yeah. Yeah.

And, but the more, the more difficult one and more interesting one is, are there imaginary things that do exist? All the stuff in the world. Yeah, right.

Democracy, but there's a question about whether or not that's non-existent or existent. Concepts. Also, Nick.

Nick. Nick is a concept. This is what we typically think of as Kunthak, right?

So far we think he exists. Yeah. Yeah, Nick is not, Nick is a concept.

Existing Kunthak. So everyone but the Mixed Nuts translators. The Tibetan word for both.

Nika? Are you a translator? Oh.

I'm sorry. I didn't hear that. Oh, everyone except the translators, but thank you.

Sorry. Nika. That's crucial.

That's crucial here. Something that appears like, like at the outside blue or something like that. What do you think you see?

Great. Oh, nice.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
What do you think you see? Excellent. I was wearing a blue shirt.

That's why.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
That's a great answer. Yeah. Thank you.

Nice homework. Thank you. Now we get the interesting part.

Oh, maybe. This is where, hey, Upa, you can go like that. What's that?

Oh, right. Just don't blink, right? Can you make it as big as you can for us old people who have non-self-existent losing their eyesight?

Is this good? Yeah, that's about as good as you can get, I guess. Yeah.

Can you please read it? I can. Slowly and clearly.

And Nick's going to check you. Okay. Nice.

Nonetheless, Wangchen Lha Su, both agree that we're in visible form of piercing eye consciousness. I just got deja vu that we did this class like a million years ago. There's a way in which the basis, in which a phrase such as this is visible to us appears.

The appearance of visible form to the eye consciousness is conceived by a main conceptual concept. But they have contradictory assertions about whether it exists, whether it exists the way it appears by definition. Good.

Perfect. Nice. Okay.

Wow. Not bad. That was a difficult one, obviously.

Yeah. Either I just had a brownie. Oh, that's it.

Okay, go ahead. Nice. The translation is very respectable.

Let me cook it for a second. Therefore, visible form appears to the eye consciousness of being by virtue of its natural state. The basis on which a phrase such as this is visible is placed.

As a consequence, Yeah, it's okay. It's good. I like it.

It's the first time he has talked about a subsequent or a later cognition, right? Yeah. And why he brought it up here is, you know, I've been wondering for a couple weeks about that.

Well, he seems to be going through a process, right? The process of what's going on between the instant we see something to how we think about it, how we hold it, and then how seeds are involved with that whole thing. Yeah, okay.

That's good. I'm just curious why he hasn't mentioned later in this whole conversation, and I don't think he mentions it again either. Oh.

But, and I checked the carving, and that's what it says. And you translated it correctly. Okay, let's go to the next one.

By the way, these translations are quite well considered. It must have taken quite a bit of effort. It took some time.

I don't think you can be a translator if you don't want to spend the time, by the way. Okay. Go.

Yeah, potentials for declaration. You had another word. Yeah, I had articulation, and now I sort of kind of like declaration.

I like the articulation.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, okay.

[Speaker 1]
All right. Just sounds more scholarly. I'm just kidding.

Initially, we're going to turn to him. Existed earlier in the studio once more with Boston. You've been wondering much about anything else.

Yeah. I loved, you know, I was all excited that he used the word so in the third line, third term in the third line. That's the so that we find in Sojong.

Sojong. Sojong, and also in the word for medicine. It means to fix or to, yeah, to fix, basically.

Renovation of a house is called so. And it also can imply artificial creation. Okay.

It's just made up. Okay. So if you read it that way here, who's the subject of the sentence?

Who is doing the sewing? Oh, the conceptual cognition. Thinking that the topic, right?

Yeah. Your translation makes the seed from billions of past lives. It makes it the object of the word so, right?

Yeah. Yeah. And I was, I don't know when I kept, when I was reading this, I kept thinking that it was doing the sewing.

But it's in that case, it should have had an instrumental after, after Bachar, right? So what I mean is, is the Bachar the object of so or is the Bachar doing the sewing? Does the seed from thinking this way for billions of years create something?

Or is the point that that seed is being nurtured or fortified, right? It seems to me like, like both is going on. So that, that Bachar is creating our experience of naming things the way we do.

And also by then having the conceptual cognition that, oh, this is the way things are. We're, we're fostering that Bachar. Those.

Yeah, that's true. Yeah. If it were my way, there should have been an instrumental after Bachar, I think, like K-Y-I-S, you see what I mean?

It should have said nurtured by the seed. So the question is, are you, does the seed nurture the perception? Or does, does some kind of habit you have nurture the seed that was planted from billions of lifetimes?

Well, we got. Yeah. Anyway, at the end of this, of this section, of this paragraph, he's identifying tope shenshi, right?

What did you call that? The thing we think is blue. The cognitive basis of conceptual cognition.

I love to say in, in DCI Advanced Level 2, we worked, we, we worked on this a lot with the apples and it's the thing you think you see. What's the implication when you say the thing you think you see? It's wrong.

It's not really there, yeah. And in this case, the idea that blue is, when you look at a patch of blue that you are seeing something outside of yourself, would be tope shenshi. You, you think you see a blue which is out there, but that's just a bad habit created by billions of lifetimes of talking about it that way.

And in the mind-only school, and in the mind-only school, there is no such blue. You're always looking at something inside the refrigerator, which is nice for me. But tope shenshi.

So, so here, when you don't, when you say shenpa, it means to, you think it. It's like in English, you have the tone of voice. I think, I think so, it means it's not really, you know.

I thought he was my friend, you know, and that means he's not, right? So, yeah, shenshi, shenshi here means it looks as though the patch of blue should be called blue naturally. It looks like that.

So the shenshi, what you're thinking about in the wrong way, is a blue which could be outside, for example. And does the shenshi exist? No.

It's what you think is there, but it's not really there. Which is a blue which could be outside. Two mind-only senses here.

It's a blue which could be outside is shenshi. It's an imaginary thing that you think you see. Or a blue which is called blue automatically is shenshi.

And when you realize that names and terms are applied to things by us and not from their own side, the potential for conflict between people reduces drastically. Because then you realize maybe this person uses those words in a different way than I do. Maybe these words mean something slightly different to this other person.

And then you're a lot more tolerant of other people. That's the idea. Anyway, it's a good translation.

These are really hard and you did a great job. Thank you. You really did do a great job.

You're getting used to this stuff. Who else did a great job? Ben and Nick and Gibson and Tim and Worth and Sven and Stacy.

Somebody did an exceptional job. And Xiaoping and Stanley. Ben?

Yeah, it's Ben. It's unusual. Anyway, you guys are reaching the unusually skillful section.

All right, here we go. You guys got to remember, remind me to show that thing next class. Remind me to show the poster next class.

All right, here we go. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Hey, man.

We call, anyway, this is how Veronica talks about her grandkid. Hey, man. Hey, man.

That's how I talk to my computer. She says I love the computer more than the grandkid. I don't know.

It's a close call. I never had a baby. Why is everything small, Tim?

I don't know why. Okay. No, okay.

Oh. Command plus. How's that?

Okay. So I think, are we here? 295.

295. Yay, I got out of a hard part. Okay.

Would you like someone to read, because it's a short sentence? Why, sure. Let me see who's here.

I would like for Amy to read. Amy, would you like to read? Okay.

I would like Anjali to read. She's not here tonight. Well, she's online.

Okay, from home, really. Anjali, would you like to read? Okay.

I would like Claudia to read. Would you like to read? I would love to.

I'm sorry, I'm reading, but... Hey, Utpala, you get out of this problem if you just give him $100 each, I'm telling you. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Lovely, thank you.

Thank you. Good. This is a mistake here.

Okay. Sorry. What's that mean up to she, Utpala?

I don't know, because the she comes after the tokpay shen shi. Yeah, it means, look, throughout this section, we've been talking about the shen shi of tokpa. Right, the...

What did I just call it? You can say the... The conceptual cognition thinking something.

Okay, how about we say what you think is there, or what you believe is there. So, sukso tokpay shen shi, when we talk about... By the way, tokpa, this spelling, without an S, means...

To think. To think, and it could be correct, and it could be totally wrong. With an S, retokspa, it's always...

Realize. Correct, I figured it out. So, tokpay shen shi is suspicious already.

It's what you think is there. And what do you think is there? Suk, you're thinking about blue.

Yeah, or blue, or the starting of blue, or something like that. yang yang jungwa means, look, I've used this word yang yang. Over and over.

I keep using this word shen shi here, tokpay shen shi. The thing you think is there, the thing you think is there. I've been using this word over and over again.

And what I... The sense in which I'm using it is dun de yin, meaning the thing you falsely think is there. Okay, when I say what you believe is there, all through this section I've been saying what you believe is there in the sense of thinking wrong, that it's blue automatically.

By the way, you could have seen it as yellow, right? It just depends on your karma. And there's famous weird stories in scriptures about people who, I don't know, they saw a wash bucket as a person.

Like, weird stuff. Okay, so he says, look, this is the way in which I'm using this phrase, the thing you think is there. But, ki.

Ki means but. There is such a thing as the shen yu of suk tokpa, okay? There is such a thing as the object of your perception.

I'll give you the first one, I'll give you the second one. You ready? Number one, what you think is there.

Number two, the object you think is there. The object you think is there. Yeah, number one, what you think is there, shen shi.

Here, shen yu, the object you think is there. And KDPJ says, that's a whole different thing. When you say shen yu, it's completely different from shen shi.

Shen shi means what you think you see. Or something you're looking at when you think you see something. Then he says, by the way, that phrase that I've repeated over and over in this section, it's not the same as saying the object that you perceive there.

Okay, what you, the object, listen, the thing you think is there is not at all the same as the object you perceive there. Got it? Because tokpa without the S can also mean a sense perception.

It can also refer to a sense perception, a good one, a normal one. I'll say it again. Hey, all through here I've been talking about what you think is there, shen shi.

And by the way, it's not at all the same as shen yu, because the word yu is also a synonym for existing. So he says, it's not at all the same as the object that you are perceiving. When I say object you're perceiving, it's more likely to be correct.

But when I say the thing you think is there, that's not at all the same thing. Okay, cool? Shepa tsa means, look, the two terms in and of themselves, you can feel the difference.

Min drang means you can feel the difference. I'm not talking about that. Throughout this section.

Throughout this section I'm talking about something you think is there. Good talk. Wrongly.

Okay, who's going to read this next long sentence, Venerable Upala? How about Venerable Chunzang? Thank you.

Geshe-la, should that be a pa on the 1, 2, 3, 4th line, right in the middle of the line, joke way? Should that be joke way? Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, it was probably a joke. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Okay. Okay, de yang der, which means here, and to say more about that topic, about the two kinds of things you think are there or you perceive as there, okay? Here in the Mind-Only School, sukso tope shen shir, the way in which we say that the blue is not a visible object from its own side, okay?

In and of itself, okay? How we describe that in the Mind-Only School, why we say what you think is there isn't there from its own side in the Mind-Only School, the way you thought it was. In other words, the blue is not outside in the way you thought it was, okay?

And then in the next lower school, in the numbers, the school, second school, they say sukso, they say visible, like they say the blue, for example, is the tope shen yul, okay? Ah, the object. Yeah, and up there with the Mind-Only, it was a shi.

The basis. Yeah. And by the way, in the Dora, in the second school, shi and yul are synonyms, but not in this presentation, okay?

Okay, nyul yinpa, rang gi tsenay kyi mar dupar. Now, it says here, the second school agrees that blue is not what you think is there, what you perceive is there, in and of itself. It's not the object.

In and of itself, yeah. The same term here, rang gi tsenay kyi mar dupar, okay? Like, if it had said dupar, it would be easy.

Oh, the lower school thinks it's natural to call it blue. The higher school thinks it's artificial to call it blue, okay? But he's not saying that.

He's saying when the higher school talks about what you think is there and why it's not there naturally, they say shen shi, the object you think is there. And when the lower school also says it's not there naturally, they use the word yul, shen yul, okay? What's the thing you perceive.

So, the distinction about when we're talking about when things don't exist by definition, mind only uses the word basis and sutras uses the word object? Yeah, but they're very, very similar because they're both false. Now, I'll give you the mind-only false, you give me the sutras false.

Mind-only false is it appears to exist out there by nature, naturally. It naturally appears to exist out there or to be called blue by nature. Now, in the lower school, how would they...

it's like a gok chao statement. Try to remember the six flavors of emptiness. How does the second school say things are self-existent?

What language do they use? Things don't exist... Automatically?

Independently? Artificially? dak chik rang wan chen gyi dak, dak chik rang wan chen gyi dak, without relying on anything else, for example.

Without relying on our causes and conditions, for example. So, that's their idea of not there by nature. Not there by nature.

What's not there by nature? A thing which could stand without causes. Or a thing which could stand permanently without changing.

A functioning thing. So, how the third school describes not natural. rang gi tsen nyi gyi ma drup pa And how the second school describes...

they also have their own not natural. But, mi tsung. They're not the same.

But it doesn't mean the same thing. When the third school says not real, and when the second school says not real, mi tsung. They ain't saying the same thing.

They're not saying the same thing. gyi tsen. Why is that true?

I'll tell you. go dewa. go dewa.

I'm going to tell you in a way any idiot could understand. And then, a note from Geshe-la. Ha ha.

Yeah, thanks a lot. How about we just leave it and go on to something else. He not only promises go dewa, which means pleasant to understand, which is impossible with him.

And then he says, gyu te. I'll tell you in a few words. I'll tell you in a few words, number one.

Go dewa. Any idiot can understand. Here you go.

Here. Next paragraph. I guarantee you're all going to understand it easily, and it's going to be short.

And neither one is true, I bet. Look. Look at this sentence.

He's been answering this guy's question for like, I don't know, years now. Oh, gosh. Thanks for your brief, easily understood.

Thanks, Kitujin. All right. Who are we going to pick on here?

Let's see. I'm going to cut it up a little bit just for fun. I would like...

Sorry, I should have been looking earlier. Mariah? Hi, thank you.

It's Maria. Maria. Yeah.

de ni mi tsukpa tao? Nice. You went up, which means you believe it.

So what's it mean, Utpala? de ni ma tsukpa ta? No, they're not the same.

They're not the same at all. What's not the same? What it means to exist by definition in the second school and what it means to exist by definition in the third school.

They both use the term. It doesn't exist by definition or from its own side. All right.

Who's next, Utpala? Oh, I would like her to continue. That was too easy.

Yeah, I was thinking that myself. It's a principle in the Mixed Nuts that you continue until you mess up. Okay.

But don't mess up. shi rang do tsan la mi ser gi. Nice, nice.

Okay. When we, here, what's the here mean? You have to know.

Dear, here, when we're talking about them, either when we're talking about them not being the same, or here, when we're talking about the mind-only school. Yeah, it's a mind-only school. Okay.

Here. Unfortunately, he doesn't say in the mind-only school. He keeps saying here because we are certainly in the mind-only school and we've been there for 100 years now.

Something like that. By the way, we are going to get out of it before too long. Okay.

And I'll tell you another thing. You guys have got, you were fed lam rim for so many years that when you get out of, when you walk out of the mind-only school into the middle-way school, you will understand everything easily. There won't be anything much new for you, to be honest.

Okay. It's this mind-only school where we get bogged down. Okay.

And because it's false in the first place. Okay. All right.

So, here in the mind-only school, when we say that the thing you think is there, okay, doesn't exist in and of itself. Okay. When we say that the thing you think is there doesn't exist in and of itself.

Okay. We're not talking about mi ser. Okay.

Okay. We're not talking about what your perception thinks is there. Okay.

When we say the blue is not out there by definition. Okay. The blue you thought was there is not out there by definition.

We're not talking about general old blue. Rang dok. Rang dok means don't get complicated.

It's just blue in the sense you think of it. Okay. We're not talking about that blue.

Okay. It's like my teacher, I was frustrated one day. I said, is the door there or not?

And he said, yes, the door is there. Then I said, well, what am I doing wrong about the door? He says, you feel like it came from the lumber store and not from you.

You feel that way. But the door is there. Okay.

So here, when we say that you're looking at something and it doesn't exist the way you thought, we're not talking about general blue. We're not talking about the door. The door is there.

It's your feeling about the door that's wrong. It's where you think it comes from that's wrong. The door is there.

Okay. Got it? So he says, look, at the end of the third line, we are not talking about plain old blue.

Blue is there. Any school. All the schools.

The blue is out there. Okay. The ocean is blue.

The sky is blue. Okay. Nobody's saying it's not blue.

Okay. We're not talking about Rang Do. Rang Do means plain old blue.

We're not talking about that. Well, what are you talking about? Who's up next?

I would like Leah to read. Thank you. Happy to.

Great. Okay. It's not really a G.

It's bok chok. This should have been. What's going on today?

This should have been ba. Sorry, you guys. Sorry.

Okay. Leah, what's going on with your microphone? There you go.

There you go. Yep. Okay.

There. There. Wang She.

Wang She. La sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook sook so when you say a wrong talk is very similar to the idea of rang tsen, okay? The classic form of a thing, like a real, a coffee cup that's really on the table. And when you say shin dok, it's more in the sense of a conceptual coffee cup, the concept of a coffee cup, okay?

Shin dok and rang dok. And there's, anytime you have a syllable ending in a vowel, like here it's I, right? Then, and there's a prenasal after it, it sounds like shin dok, like the famous monastery called Gan Den.

Because ga ends with ah, it bumps into an N at the beginning of the next word, and it sounds like gan den, but it's really ga yin den, okay? So shin dok. Shin dok to gyur pa.

By the way, that spelling of gyur requires pa after it. You will never see gyur wa. It's not possible in Tibetan, okay?

Gyur pa. Bok chok ten chung for $100. Those bok chok that are firmly planted?

That's too obvious. You think I'd pay $100 for something obvious? I was hoping!

The Sushumna College fund is, we have to build it up now. We have a new goal in our life. We can't hear anything that anyone says in that room.

If you could please repeat it for us. Thank you. What did you say?

Say it again. I think the basis where the bok chok arise or reside. Yeah, no, forget that.

Never mind, you don't want to hear it. The things that those, the bok choks that those things depend on? No, that would be spelled with an E.

Yeah, I'll take a shot. What's this mean with an A? Sperm.

I'll just tell you guys. There's an idiom in the Mind Only School where ten chung, which means a firmly established mental seed, bok chok, is the name for the seed that's created by those billions of years of talking about a thing a certain way. And maybe we haven't had this before, I think.

So the particular seeds that are planted by billions of years of thinking about or talking about something that's outside, for example, is called bok chok ten chung. It means a solid bok chok, but it's solid by virtue of having been repeated billions of years. Okay, that's called, so when you see ten chung, think, think, what was the other one called?

Mun juk gi bok chok. Is this like the current iteration of the mun juk gi bok chok or something? Exactly.

You could say that. Yeah, you could say that. Three different kinds.

Was this a different kind? Are we talking something different than how we talk about it, but more how we think about it? No, it's just a synonym for mun juk gi bok chok.

Bok chok ten chung is a synonym for mun juk gi bok chok. Okay. Thank you.

It means super solid by virtue of billions of years of repetition. Okay. You think that blue is outside because of a stuck seed in your mind, and it's stuck there for billions of years.

Okay, that's all. Okay. Ten chung, this spelling.

Okay. So what are we saying? The thing you think you see, shing dong, more conceptual rather than actual, right, which is what causes you to say, oh, this is blue.

Okay. The she that you're talking about, the color that you're talking about when you say this is blue. Okay.

For that to exist in the way it appears to exist, that's what we call shen she from the last paragraph. Okay. He was trying to tell us, what's it mean when I say the thing you think you see?

And he says, well, that's the thing you think you see because of that seed you had in your mind for billions of years. That's what it is. Okay.

When we say the thing you think you see, we're talking about that thing that seems to be naturally called outside. Okay, that's all. We're not talking we're not talking about blue.

We're talking about a blue that seems to be outside. Okay. Blue is a shen you.

You believe it's there. And you're correct. But thinking blue is outside is a shen she.

Something you think is there. Okay. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
So he's trying to do that.

[Speaker 1]
Recap time, just so you know. Yay. So he's trying to distinguish again between shen she and shen you.

Look, do you see a blue? Yes. Do you think a blue is out there?

Yes. Do you perceive a blue out there? Yes.

Is it wrong? No. Well, what's wrong?

The one you think is out there, the blue you think is out there, and not one inside your own mind. That's what we call shen she. Something you think is there.

Okay, and it's not shen you, which is something you see there. Okay, it's not something you see there. It's something you think is there.

Okay, got it. And he's trying to draw the distinction. The thing you think is there is always resulting from bak chak ten chul, this billion year old seeds.

The plain old blue out there could be from a bak chak. Maybe you offered something blue. When people get married, they offer something blue.

The bride wears something blue. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you can get a karmic result from that, and that's not a weird thing.

It's that blue that's outside and not coming from your mind. It's the blue that's not showing itself inside your own kunshi, which is the weird blue. But to go to a wedding and offer the bride something blue, that's okay.

You can see something blue. That's a shen dok, and not a rang dok, okay? All right.

Puff, puff, puff. What should I do for next time? Yeah, I was going to answer that, and then you're going to wrap up for us.

I thought you just did. I was just doing the last sentence. Why don't you wrap us, and then I'll give you an assignment.

Okay. I can see some easy stuff coming up here. He talked about how form appearing to the eye consciousness as being by virtue of the form's own natural state, the basis on which words such as this is visible is placed.

That's what goes on to the eye consciousness, and then because of that, there's a later conceptual thinking of the words, this is visible. And the potentials for articulation, the nunjuki bakchaks, which have existed in the stream of our minds for beginningless time, are fostered over and over and over again due to this conceptual thinking that visible form appears to exist in the way that it appears to the eye consciousness. Now, then K.J. said, when I say tokpe shenshi, the thing you think is there, I've used this phrase over and over again, and I'm not using it in the sense of the object that you perceive. That's not what I'm talking about. Good. Good.

I like hearing language. And then there's a distinction between the mind-only school and the sutra schools because when they say that what we think is there isn't there from its own side, they don't mean the same thing. They mean different things.

And he's going to be so kind to us in just a few words described that any idiot could understand what the differences are. You know it's not the right. When he says that, you know you're in trouble.

Well, I know that he's talking to me. Or no, he's not. I guess I'm a worse idiot than the idiots that were around him at the time.

And we just started talking about the mind-only school when they say that the thing we think is there doesn't exist in and of itself. What they're not talking about is what we see. Yeah, good.

And by the way, I expect to see bak chak tenjung on your TSWs or STWs? STWs. Okay.

And maybe, remember we used to talk about karmic seeds in terms of wet cement, half-dry cement, dry cement. Yeah, this one. By the way, I wanted to say one thing because my friend Gunnar's here.

Hi. From LA. We got the two cool people from LA today.

Something I thought to say, this whole argument about the mind-only, believing that when you look at blue, you're actually seeing something inside your own mind, right? If you truly embrace the mind-only school, you would always be moral. You see, that's the bottom line.

And he doesn't repeat it here, and he doesn't talk about it much, but if every color you're seeing is coming from how you treat other people, if every color you see is coming from a seed that was planted in your mind by how you treat other people, and if you really understood the mind-only school, then you would be nice to everyone, unfailingly. You would always be nice to other people. If you really embraced the mind-only school, the result in your real life would be you would never hurt anybody at all, because you realize even the colors you're seeing are coming from how you treat other people, much less whether or not your life is going well.

Cool? Thank you. All right.

And what shall I do? Oh, yeah. The rest of 297, okay, and then 298, and that's going to tie easily and briefly into 299.

Okay. All right. Okay.

The rest of 297, 298, and 299. By the way, when I split a paragraph to make it easier for people to read, I would not renumber it, Utpala. I'm just trying to help.

Yeah, it'll all be together in the translation, correct? Yeah. Great.

Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Wonderful. Thank you so much, Geshe-la. Okay.

That was easy. And what was the other thing he promised? That was just a few words.

Okay, Nick, how much time we got? Five minutes. Yeah.

The class actually technically started a minute ago. I'm sure everybody could benefit from a short break. Long enough to pee-pee, at least.

Okay. All right. See you in five minutes, Mr. Sugeng. See you.