Бен Крамер — Книга 2: Драгоценность истинной мысли (Геше Йеше Вангчук о Дхармакирти), занятие 12

[Speaker 1]
Thank you for the storage facility, we're gonna buy it in a couple of weeks. Yeah. Take it over Dr. Kramer.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, we'll do here we go.

[Speaker 3]
Okay. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
So, please name three topics for advanced students. In Chapa Chupi Chuki Sanjay's book of collected topics. There are forthcoming clues, if we're utterly hopeless.

[Speaker 1]
Hey Ben I'm accepted from the homework right.

[Speaker 2]
Um, you. Yeah, that is my understanding. Just checking in be cheating I feel like it would be cheating.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah. I use my notes it's cheating.

[Speaker 1]
No using your notes is not cheating you using your notes as being studious cheating is if you have a suit on and you're in your boxer shorts, that's a little cold for that isn't it working to me and Rosa are working on a special suit for you guys. That is going to be the new fashion that's probably the tie is going to be striped like the boxer shorts are going to match. It's kind of brilliant zoom chic.

[Speaker 3]
So I have include the reasoning to statements of consequence.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, what's that in Tibetan.

[Speaker 3]
Um, I'll look. And so now someone else over.

[Speaker 2]
That's an easy one. That would be the, it's the name of the highest branch of the highest school of Buddhism.

[Speaker 3]
I mean my Jamaica.

[Speaker 2]
The highest branch of that school. In Tibetan.

[Speaker 3]
Um, Oh God, I know right.

[Speaker 2]
Someone knows the Tibetan word.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, right.

[Speaker 2]
Great. That's the first one. What's the second one.

[Speaker 3]
Limiting what a thing is not.

[Speaker 2]
Cool. What's the Tibetan for that. Agreed.

[Speaker 3]
And then engaging in eliminations and affirmative objects.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, right, whatever that means. Yes, indeed. Right.

Well, right. Yeah. Um, what's that in Tibetan.

[Speaker 3]
Somebody else has got to do it I don't know.

[Speaker 2]
I don't really remember either. It's kind of I kind of remember I remember part of it.

[Speaker 3]
So, I'm sorry.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, yep, totally. Great. Brilliant.

Whoops. Oh, I said three but then I included for the fourth one.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Right.

[Speaker 3]
See, a better, greater presentation of cause and effect to bed.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, great. Cool. Okay.

Um, who wrote the treasury of the science of accurate perception, a book that acts as a sort of bridge between the early collected topic works of Chupachuk Sanjay and more modern systems of monastic works on collected topics.

[Speaker 3]
Someone is also known as teacher.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, cool. Great.

Um, and then let's see if we can work our way through the 11 chapters of that book. There are forthcoming clues if they're necessary. I don't think I could do it in correct order without my notes, but if you have notes.

That's cool. I'll show you the Tibetan for the first one if we need it. And then you can just tell me what the Tibetan means.

Unless someone wants to tell me what the first one is without looking, even at the Tibetan, which I would allow them nation of objects. Examination of objects cool in Tibetan.

[Speaker 3]
Let's see.

[Speaker 2]
That sounds right. Yeah, you'll talk about. Right.

Um, cool. What's next.

[Speaker 3]
Domination of the mind.

[Speaker 2]
Cool, which is cool.

[Speaker 3]
And then, and then you can share that.

[Speaker 2]
Cool.

[Speaker 3]
Characteristics. Examination of quality and characteristics.

[Speaker 2]
Great.

[Speaker 3]
And then anybody else. I just said this one last time. I can give the English.

Okay yeah cool examination of engaging with eliminations and affirmations.

[Speaker 2]
Cool. Great. Okay.

[Speaker 3]
Something.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Great. You can get all of them that way.

Number five.

[Speaker 3]
Somebody else. Can I jump in. Examination of expressions and express serves.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, right. Well that's what I tried to get away with, but, but then we learned that it kind of meant something else what's the Tibetan. Paula.

Yeah, and what did we learn, it does mean technically expressions than express source but it more means, what did we learn about this one.

[Speaker 3]
Seems to be talked about in the way you talk about them.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, right. Yeah, right like subjects and ways of expressing those subjects topics and ways of expressing those topics something like that. Here, I don't know.

Oh examination of looked weird. Great.

[Speaker 3]
And then examination of relationships.

[Speaker 2]
Sounds good. Whoops.

[Speaker 3]
And then you'll 10 a examination contradiction. Ah, yeah, you know this one. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Getting there.

[Speaker 3]
Examination of definitions.

[Speaker 2]
Ah, yeah. Awesome. Cool.

[Speaker 3]
Examination of the direct perception.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, which is what in Tibetan. You would think.

[Speaker 3]
No. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 3]
And then examination of deductive reasoning for our own benefit.

[Speaker 2]
Cool.

[Speaker 3]
And then cool. And finally, examination of deductive reasoning for the benefit of others.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, how nice. Yeah. Can you do the Tibetan for this one by changing one word.

[Speaker 3]
I said wrong.

[Speaker 2]
Not wrong.

[Speaker 3]
No, I said I said that for the one that's for yourself so right. The one for others would be Oh, yeah.

[Speaker 2]
She was telling me to be quiet so that I didn't give it away. Yeah, right. Yeah, good.

Cool. Great. Brilliant.

So, um, let's do this. Um, all right, guess what I need you. So we got, um, oh, I have to ask my, my ritual bibliography question real quick first.

[Speaker 3]
Can you turn off your spelling checking.

[Speaker 2]
Maybe. Well, I just, it's, it's not intensely necessary for what I'm doing right now and I want to move quickly. I'm sorry.

I just want to talk real quickly about Oh, translating Sanskrit titles. When I don't have them around already available to me. What you want us to do generally boss.

My guess is you're muted.

[Speaker 1]
No, I'm, I'm just muted up here. You mean, reconstructing a Sanskrit name. Is that what you want.

Yeah, go ahead and use Lucas Chandra, and he's extremely accurate. He's, he's, he, he should have been a mixed nut. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, I'll try to do that and then I had this other problem in Lucas Chandra.

[Speaker 1]
And what you can do is also use the to Hoku, or you can use Lucas Chandra to find similar titles that do have a sense.

[Speaker 2]
Right. Okay. Okay.

Um, what do I do about this. When Lucas Chandra has a panic attack and starts throwing in question marks.

[Speaker 1]
Also, I would put an asterisk, whenever we create a reconstruct we put an asterisk, like, totally. When he puts question marks.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, look at this one.

[Speaker 1]
That means probably means he's trying to reconstruct it. So what do I think about it.

[Speaker 2]
Just what you, what do you want me to do. Yeah, you're the boss and I'm trying to make.

[Speaker 1]
I would take out the question marks and see if you can find that word in his dictionary.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, take out the question mark see if I can find that word in his dictionary, and should I put an asterisk because he wasn't sure and I'm based on guessing that. Okay, do my best guess based on looking around for proper spelling of that word leaning heavily on him, and then give it an asterisk, because he didn't exactly say I didn't take it straight from him.

[Speaker 1]
You know it's another option. Somebody tell me the obvious option the other obvious option. Um, anything in the tenure.

Oh, anything in the tenure has the Tibetan has the Sanskrit and Tibetan letters at the beginning of the title, like 90% 95%. Okay, so go, go, go to our database and look up this book and see what the Tibetan said he's probably complaining about the Tibetan.

[Speaker 2]
Right. If we, if I take it from a Tibetan translation. Is that what it takes for me if I get either from Lucas Chandra or from actually in a direct direct Tibetan translation, is that what it takes for me to not use an asterisk, what are the circumstances under which I don't need an asterisk.

[Speaker 1]
If I, if you find it in Lucas Chandra you don't need an asterisk, you can you can take it for for correct.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
What he does sometimes is he corrects things in the Tibetan. And so you, I would, if it were me I'd go look at the Tibetan and I guess that he's what he's saying is that, like, Tibetans tend to split the along a into, into two short days for example, and he connects them. Following.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, if a Tibetan gives me the Sanskrit title, knowing what I know about Tibetan Sanskrit spelling. How much do I trust that.

[Speaker 1]
If you can confirm the separate words in Lucas Chandra, and I mean you mean Lucas Chandra didn't try to reconstruct the title himself but as far as I know, I think he reconstructed all 4600 but you know he did all of them. He's, he's really good I trust him. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
And I don't have anyone better than that.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, they're weird moments where he didn't. Yeah. So, for example, that one down here, right, he didn't have this one, or I would have used it.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I would compare, you know, compare the Tibetan in situ to to what he wrote. And then if you don't if he didn't do it. Look up the pieces.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. If it's in the Tibetan, if the Tibetans wrote the Sanskrit in the title. And I end up using that.

[Speaker 1]
You cannot put an asterisk. Yeah. Okay, great.

And there it is for you in the chat, unless you find a mistake in it.

[Speaker 2]
You know, there it is for me in the chat.

[Speaker 3]
I just took it from the file.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, okay. This is this, this one not the earlier.

[Speaker 3]
The one that you had the two question marks and.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, sure. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
All good questions. I'm, I'm really happy that you're interested in it and it saved me a lot of time. I mean, that's one way you can save me a lot of time there's no reason why I should be doing all the bibliography entries.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, I'm trying to, I'm trying to get you out of it.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. All right. I'll look at that later.

Um, okay. All right, boss. So, uh, look, this was hard.

I'm sorry, I still got your face.

[Speaker 1]
Your books been pretty easy this term.

[Speaker 2]
However, right. However, so you gave me an interesting assignment, which was to translate the second day. And then if I really felt confident there that I could go on to the third.

So, I didn't feel. I can.

[Speaker 3]
Because I can barely see it.

[Speaker 2]
I understand.

[Speaker 3]
Thank you so much.

[Speaker 2]
You bet. Yeah, and bring them.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, there you go.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Yeah. So, what I did instead.

Oh, and I made a mess of things. I'm so sorry. Let me get this out of the way.

What I did instead, and I don't know is I, um, I was so I was still confused by the first so I went back and I tried to do like a good translation of the first one and then I did the second one so I don't have the third. I have an idea about the third but I was still so confused by the first one that I'm wondering if you wouldn't mind taking a look at my translation of the first and then we'll do the second and then I'm sorry that I don't yet have the. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, that's fine. Soon donkeys ship and key. Let me see here.

I'm finding one of the three resulting real estate chance. Okay. Okay, good.

It is an active session. Yeah, the first sentence is fine.

[Speaker 2]
Now it gets weird.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[Speaker 3]
I don't know.

[Speaker 1]
There's something missing. The mind that takes on the presence of the tsunami ship on them. I think he's just listing.

He's listing elements of this dreadful. Okay. There's a part in which it is understanding its object.

Through me, by means of the various kinds of perception, taking on the aspect of the object right that's okay. That's pretty good. The thing that becomes serious.

[Speaker 2]
That's a part of what it's, it's a part of the realization somehow though yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah, it is. Yeah. The thing under consideration.

I like to think of like if you're looking at a blue, something. There's kind of a picture of blue in your mind, that's how I.

[Speaker 2]
Right, right. I tried to call that and I, you know, it's a little wordy but but soon numb, I translated as an aspect of the mind that takes on the appearance of its object.

[Speaker 1]
I think that's perfect. That's fine. Yeah, that part is really good.

The thing under consideration is the object. CJ you.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, there's no. Oh sorry there is a. Sorry, well, and I don't know.

Yeah, I don't understand you see this is, and I'm sorry I obviously I did a boo boo here even in the grammar. I didn't know how these three elements necessarily related to one another so there, whatever, there's a thing under consideration. Okay, that is the object being held.

Okay, there's a right assume job that's the shell job. Yeah. Right.

And then there's, you know, whatever. There, right. Whoops.

[Speaker 1]
There are components of this perception, involving, you know, aspect object perception itself. You know, yeah, it's just a list of us, it's just a list of elements in the active perception.

[Speaker 2]
So these next two arches, even though he did element one he ended then description of element one by saying che. And then he gives two more but are the next two also the two more days, basically two more parts.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I would assume a child.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, I mean, I'm sorry. Right. Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
And I would say there's a part of blah blah blah and there's a part of blah blah blah and there's a part of blah blah blah yeah okay okay okay okay all right. Soon to use. Yeah.

It has a component of what it, what it considers, which is the, it is holding. Okay. And as a component of the mind which is holding the object.

And then it has a component where the aspect of the object is, is appearing inside the mind, or the mind is taking on the aspect of the object. And then all of those parts. They law, I would translate as you know all of those parts, contribute to Saudi military ship at Sima, a, a, a perception, which is an accurate perception, which is fresh, and which is unmistakable.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Okay. So, how many elements did we just have.

Well, let me count. That's a good question. There's a tsunami ship, and then you're wrong you talk a lot.

Soon Jay you shall chat to Jane take a little three. You'll day number shower for for.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Well then, okay so and and I understand. Sorry.

Oh, so one of them, the isn't the first one technically the Drake talk itself.

[Speaker 1]
Some ship and key. Well, I'm just counting the first one as a Utah picture. Oh, the first one is right.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Oh, it's the, but, but that's the realization of the yule isn't that what is resulting here from.

[Speaker 1]
No, I mean, technically it is, but he's trying to divide it out into different right elements of the act of perception. Yeah. He's listing components of the act of perception.

[Speaker 2]
Right. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Don't forget. I don't usually go to the great dictionary for philosophy, right, because it's sloppy philosophy, but in the absence of any easier source I just thought, you know, I wouldn't maybe even when I translate all this I'm not sure. Okay, I would say, I might in the foot, I don't think in the footnote I would put the whole date though though but that was kind of fun.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, I only did it because you assigned it to me.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, but it's good to understand it. Yeah. But I wouldn't use the whole thing in the footnote.

Yeah, I would just say it's a, it's a resulting perception, which involves perceiving objects other than the mind, and then that's all I would say in the footnote.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, right. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
And by the way, you know, in the mixed nuts system.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
We make a definitive footnote. And then that footnote is so good that we can use it again and later books, other books. So, you probably should go find a good definition of it in the database.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, I mean, you know, I, I sort of feel like eventually it's going to get talked about a good bit. You know, I mean he's just saying that the guy wrote a book about. I mean I don't mind saying look he wrote a book about the.

Yeah, right. What would you say you know the the way the mind realizes, you know, other objects.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. And by the way, to create a footnote. The easiest way is to.

Well I'll show you when I start my class. Okay, I'll show you how I how I would do it. Okay.

And maybe Joel also.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, yeah, great. Um, I'm sorry this is not. And here I'll put this on a new.

And now there are problems that it has inherited from what I didn't get right about the first one.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, okay. I like the first sentence. Good.

Yeah. Yeah, there's the, there's the, there's the component where the, the subject. Part of the mind is, is, is, is doing is perceiving.

Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
So Zen name is opposed to some number.

[Speaker 2]
Right. Yeah. And right, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
What's being held by that what's being perceived is a object under consideration, and it seems like unlike with the.

[Speaker 2]
Unlike with the sunam, you don't have to have like an extra appearance in the mind of the mind because the mind is already in the mind so like with, you know, the mind taking on an aspect of an outer object you need the outer object to be represented somehow in the mind but the mind already has itself in there so it doesn't seem like you need to have like an appearance of the mind to itself in the mind you're just looking at the mind right.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I mean, it doesn't seem very helpful to me to say so. I don't understand why it's helpful, but didn't seem that it's a perception, which has the aspect of, of being the, the subject right holding the. Yeah.

And it is established, because it's result is, is, is wrong. Okay. And how does this.

How does the school here different from the dreadful double.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, it's, it's very interesting and it's especially interesting when we get to the third which I did go down and make a mess of but um, but only the mind only school accepts this who accepts the first one. Both the mind only school and the suit wrists. Oh, only both of them.

No, really. Oh, you're right. I'm sorry you're right.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, good. Good. Yeah, but the next one.

Okay, which is intensely confusing, but look I threw a bunch of useless but oh, why don't you take over from here, that's you don't need to see this. This is a bunch of gobbledygook that Ben scribbled there to bang his head against. All right, let's go to date.

I'll stop my share and then, um, yeah. And it's, yeah, this is cool this one's cool but I don't know, I don't get it, but I almost do.

[Speaker 1]
I know you did a good job and actually easy. I wonder, I wonder, you know, if I was going to really create a footnote from this and I was, and I had time. Which I haven't had these two weeks because I, of course, because I wrote a new course, the two weeks before that.

And then I didn't have my normal time to to prepare for the classes, so I've been getting up at two o'clock, but I just couldn't do it. So anyway, um, what I'd like to show how I would, how I would make a proper footnote. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
So, and I wanted to give you some searching clues. Okay, great. What I would search for is dreadful dreadful dumbo me.

Okay. Okay. Be I'll tell you why.

It'd be nice. If you had this in the database. The definition of dreadful dumbo.

Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, but that's a stretch right.

[Speaker 1]
They are few and far between.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Because oftentimes they'll say dreadful dumbo has three divisions, then there'll be a couple sentences and they'll say, so they, but, but I'll tell you something. It's always worth a try.

[Speaker 2]
Sure.

[Speaker 1]
Now, I would prefer not to be. I would prefer to be in the books. When I go for these definitions, and I'll tell you why.

Somebody like chunky I wrote the door J. Yeah, he might have a definition of data. And it's too, it's too old and it's too weird.

Okay. And so, I won't go to the sit down to text. I won't accept the definition for a logic term from a sit down to text to see.

So I'm going to remove these, and I and I encourage you to get good at adding new search fields. I encourage you guys to get good at it. Okay.

And to practice it. So, I'm going to search, and by the way, can't hear will never have these definitions, 10 year will have them only in a very weird obscure language because it's translated. I don't even bother.

I would look in the symbol. Okay, so I've got a symbol. And then I would pre select the, the logic text, so I don't waste my time.

Okay. Because I don't have time, I'm a few minutes for me is extremely precious. So I will open that you see where I am.

[Speaker 2]
I do.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, so I'm in the symbol. And I only want to search the great Tibetan writers of logic. And I haven't allowed any other authors in this section.

If I find something, it's definitive. I have not allowed lesser authors into the database, they can go somewhere else. I'm not taking my time to add a questionable author to the database.

Okay, and this database is pure so far it's pure. If somebody corrupts it. I swear I'm going to come back as a zombie and do something to you.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, easier if you just stick around alive.

[Speaker 1]
That's true too. Okay, so here we go. We're going to search for dental dumb bits any I don't think you'll find it but sometimes you get lucky.

[Speaker 2]
I agree.

[Speaker 1]
Nope, not. Okay, now, my alternate choice is just say dental dumbo knee.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, also be extraordinarily fortunate.

[Speaker 1]
Then, then you're in fat city, then you can write a footnote. Okay, normally it's a definition. Here we go.

[Speaker 2]
Yes. Hey, guess what happened.

[Speaker 1]
Now you got to go to all the dental dumbbells and see. By the way, if you want to, you can do this. Okay, and Tibetan scripture was made for Boolean searches.

Okay, and it's extraordinarily helpful. And, and, and if, and the search engine has to emphasize these eight boxes, because Tibetan is, has multiple spellings. Okay, they have alternate accepted spellings.

If you make a search without these eight boxes, it's almost a waste of time. Okay, so any search engine has to have these eight boxes, because there's so many variations. After 2000 years, you know, one bataparala where they shot a sulta that broke the match that pierced into the rota and bothered everybody's veins.

That's 500 year English. Think about 2000, 2500 year Tibetan, there's going to be a few changes. Okay.

Okay, so here we'll see if we get lucky. Okay. But I don't think, I'm guessing you won't get lucky.

Okay, here we go. We're looking for the word definition near Jeytottambo.

[Speaker 2]
I don't think there are going to be that many Jeytottambos, frankly.

[Speaker 1]
Now, I'm just teaching you how to search and maybe we should have a class on this. I might do Debu Topa. I might do Debu Topa.

[Speaker 2]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, I might expand it to that, take out the simi.

[Speaker 2]
Totally.

[Speaker 1]
And guess what? This is why we don't use Tibetan script. This is why I prefer Roman.

Topa is one of the most misspelled words in Tibetan. So, don't specify whether it's spelled right or spelled wrong. If you put Jeytok with half the word Topa, you're going to hit all of them.

That's so beautiful about this search engine. Okay, so here we go. Yes, so somebody said, now there's 137 Jeytoks.

Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, right.

[Speaker 1]
We didn't really want that many. Okay, so let's try to go back to... We're not going to take one unless you give us the simi, okay?

This is not... If simi occurs well before the word you want, it's not related to your word. That's a general rule, okay?

[Speaker 3]
Right.

[Speaker 1]
And this is not really... Yeah, okay, you don't have it. There is no definition in the database.

So, now, what I would do next is take a piece... Jeytok... We're looking for the Jeytok, for example, that is related to Valerik, okay?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, okay.

[Speaker 1]
Now, this is going to be a fruitful search. Okay. This is going to give us good results, I predict.

Okay, here we go. Yeah, here it is.

[Speaker 2]
144.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and here we hit it. This is what we want.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Here's everything you ever wanted to know about the second Jeytok.

[Speaker 2]
Right, which technically is the one we don't want to know about, but...

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, well, I'm just saying... Yes. Now we've hit the one we want.

What do I do immediately when I get something I can mine for a footnote? I check the...

[Speaker 3]
Title, the author.

[Speaker 1]
The author, okay? I want a respectable author. I will not make a mixed nuts footnote from an unknown dude.

And this guy is called KdubJ. Right.

[Speaker 2]
Which theoretically we don't have to worry about because we haven't let anyone else into the database, but we still check anyway, especially in front of other people to whom we'd like to emphasize that we never want to have anyone in the database.

[Speaker 1]
Well, that's the first one I hit. Let's see if we hit any others. I'm going to skip to the next book.

Okay. Next file, next book. There's one.

Gendun Drup, the first Mr. D. That's not so bad. Next one.

Kumken... I don't know him so well. Okay.

But he's official. Gyaltsabje, misspelled. I don't know who the hell put that.

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Not me. Okay. And they misspelled the Dharma part of his name.

Pretty extraordinary. Okay, it's embarrassing. Okay, sorry.

Here's another KdubJ. Here's a Tsongkhapa, that's probably all right. And there's a Kyutsang Lama from Sarame who's a great great Lama.

Okay, so you had about eight choices of extraordinary teachers. And then you could build... But I'll tell you something interesting.

Look, they've pretty much built their definitions. Let's go back to Tsongkhapa.

[Speaker 2]
Gyaltsabje.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, I'm sorry.

[Speaker 2]
KdubJ.

[Speaker 1]
What happened to Tsongkhapa? You were on it.

[Speaker 3]
You were on it, actually. Sorry. Hit next twice.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, yeah. There you are. Well, he didn't do what I wanted him to do.

Hang on, let's do the previous file. And that's a very useful function, by the way, Joel, is to be able to go back. I have a choice of going back to hits in the same book or going back to hits in a previous book.

You see what I mean? I have that choice. I can say previous file, which means previous book.

Or I can say previous match, which means it could be in the same book.

[Speaker 2]
I think Tsongkhapa was the second book we hit, boss.

[Speaker 1]
I already rejected him. He wasn't treating it the way I wanted.

[Speaker 2]
It wasn't him, though. Technically, that was KdubJ's notes on him or Gyaltsabje's notes on him.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, yeah, okay. Those can be...

[Speaker 2]
But I think the second thing that we hit was actually Tsongkhapa himself.

[Speaker 1]
But here we have... Well, I don't want to use this author. Let me try another one.

What I wanted to say was people have followed... The author of the great dictionary has precedence. People did treat it in little pieces like that.

Okay. Yes.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
So, anyway, I would swim through all the definitions. I would pick...

[Speaker 2]
Can we go back one more?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. You mean...

[Speaker 2]
Previous file. I'm sorry.

[Speaker 1]
I think we're on the last one. The first one.

[Speaker 2]
I see. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Anyway, that's... Try me first.

[Speaker 2]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Try Zenny. Sometimes you get lucky.

[Speaker 2]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Then you've got to start searching for pieces near the word.

[Speaker 2]
Right.

[Speaker 1]
Known pieces near the word. Okay?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Those are the steps I would take.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. That took some also in this case would probably be helpful.

[Speaker 1]
And I would limit the search to the Pramana section of the symbol.

[Speaker 3]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Which is what we... That was our hard work for 20 years. We catalog every book in a subject category.

So, you know, those are preset search fields.

[Speaker 3]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
So I can limit... I don't have to see what some weird guy in the 12th century thought about. You know, I can limit it to the cream of the Tsongkhapa guys.

[Speaker 3]
Geshe-la, do you know what the order is in which the results are returned?

[Speaker 1]
I don't happen to know. I don't happen to know.

[Speaker 3]
It would be nice to know, correct? Or to be able to say, I only want to look at J Tsongkhapa, Khedrje, Gendun...

[Speaker 1]
That's called a relational database, which this is not.

[Speaker 3]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
That's what Joel's working on.

[Speaker 3]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
And, you know, I made an executive decision 25 years ago. I said, nobody's going to get this together in the next 25 years. And I will be 80 by the time they finish, and I'll be...

It'll be too old to use it. So I went ahead and used this. And it's beautiful.

If someone can make a relational database, God bless, okay? I have an emergency backup. I have all the books of Tsongkhapa in a separate file, in a separate folder in my computer.

I have a few great authors. But ideally, you should be able to relational database. You could say, tell me how J Tsongkhapa used this word in his 40s.

And especially when he was in Rasa and not when he was out east. And it should be definable by period of his life, period of the extent of his life, places where he was, and perhaps subject matters under the author. Search all the books by Tsongkhapa on Semo.

Okay? And that would be great, but we don't have that capacity. This is a flat file database.

And in one way, it's brilliant, because it's built into the operating system of the computer. It does not depend on a company. It's built into the operating system of the computer.

If the operating systems of the computer ever change radically, this tool will not be useful. But you can't show me a database tool that has survived for as long as Gopal has survived, because it is built into the system of the computer. And that was a good move, I would say.

A little appreciated by my students.

[Speaker 3]
Have we tried it with the latest version of the Mac operating system?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, there's some little things you have to push some buttons apparently. I don't know. Okay, let's look for Dweytal Sumba.

There you go. And then I always glance down. Here's Gel, Tsup, Daharma.

Okay, there's only a small group of people allowed to mess with the database. So, it only has two hits actually.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, and look, yeah, that one was probably this.

[Speaker 1]
No, it's not. You can see when you're in the dictionary. And by the way, this looks like an interesting one.

Yeah, I should say. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, okay, so you know what?

We didn't explore that option. You could have looked in your own book.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, right.

[Speaker 1]
He might have had a good one. And by the way, if you get desperate, there have been separate books written about Dweytal by reputable people. That's why we're studying Dweytal right now.

And you can order them. You can have them input. So, any mixed nut has the right and the option to ask Nick and Ben to have a book input for them, especially for their text.

And those ladies at the input center can knock out a 500-page book in about six days. They are unbelievable. They are just unbelievable.

Five times, typing it five times. They are unbelievable, and they are really devoted. And I have a strong, strong hope that I'd like to work on with Noor that we could help them.

I have this fantasy to help them buy their houses. We're all getting houses. We're all getting apartments from our salaries.

And I think it would be so cool if we had a house-buying program for the ladies who have been there for over 10 years or 15 years. This lady has been there for 30 years. And I think it would be really cool.

So, I hope Noor can get that going. Okay. Okay, where do we go now, Senor?

[Speaker 2]
Well, we're going to talk about the Dreyto Sum because apparently he wrote a commentary to the first and the third, and of course he skipped the second because the Sutras don't accept it. Oh, good. He didn't cover the third.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, here's the third. Dreyto Sumba, the perception which is a result of, you know, the resulting perception. Or the realization which is the result of an accurate perception.

It's one of the three Dreyto's.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
It's Dodepadan Tumma Mayimba.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, it is exclusive to or special to the Sutras school.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, only the Sutra school accepts this third one. Okay. Joktsul, same day Joktsul.

Same day means result of an accurate perception, right? Chidungti Suk is the Shelja.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, outer objects are what is under consideration in the case of this realization or understanding.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, outer physical objects, right?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, outer physical objects, even if you think it's Suk.

[Speaker 1]
Suk Dela Rang Yong Kyi Nampa Shawe Gone. The mind takes on the aspect of that physical object.

[Speaker 3]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Just, that's what appears in the mind. And it's a starting Lui Sherpa.

[Speaker 2]
Which is a fresh, unerring awareness, which is an accurate perception, right? Is that in the positive?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. And Tsema Rang Nyi Suk Kyi Nampa Shawe Gone. Rang Nyi Di Tung Ma Gyur Pa'i Suk Tokpa.

This is weird, okay? Tsema Rang Nyi Suk Kyi Nampa Shawe Gone. When this accurate perception, when the mind takes on the aspect of the physical object which it's looking at, Rang Nyi Dang Nyi Tung Ma Gyur Pa'i Suk Tokpa, it is perceiving a physical object which is not part and parcel with the mind.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
So that means it cannot be accepted by the mind. Because their big thing is blue. If they need anything, they need blue to be inside.

Okay, that's their... In fact, what's emptiness? One of their emptinesses is the emptiness of...

[Speaker 2]
Outer objects.

[Speaker 1]
Outer objects, outer physical objects.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. So a big thing that comes up for me, and maybe we don't really care for the sake of a very minor footnote, but is this not... How is this different from the first one?

I mean, okay, it's just physical and it's outer, but is there overlap between this and the first one?

[Speaker 1]
I think there can be overlap. Yeah, there can be some components which are shared. Yeah, that's okay.

Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Because like the... I don't know, is the... Okay.

So there's some that are shared. What would be something that... Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
I think, well, the wrong rig. Once you get into the wrong rig, you really limit who's going to accept it.

[Speaker 2]
Well, right. But forget that one. I'm just talking about the first one because Do De Pa.

Because this came up in a footnote because Saratjuki Gyelsen wrote a commentary, a book about the first and the third, and he wasn't interested in wrong rig either.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. I would say let's keep going on your text tonight. And, you know, now you know what the detogs are enough to translate it as the book name correctly.

I wouldn't spend too much time on it. I've never seen detog discussed in my studies. So...

Okay.

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. By the way, here's the Table of Contents, the Gendun Drupse work on Sema. And it does cover all three.

So you could have this input bin. Here's the detog dambo. Here's the detog nyipa.

There's some intermediate... There's some... It skips, and then it says detog sumpa.

So... And he only spends about four or five pages on each one. It means...

And he's very good at simplifying things. The first Mr. D is very good at simplifying things and presenting them in a very ordered way. He was a very nerdy guy.

And he didn't do a lot of... He didn't speculate. He just has outlines, and he gives you the basic information.

So he's very helpful for that. Probably, if you made a footnote about detogs, you should get it from this book. And you should try...

Make sure it's input. Okay? I'm pretty sure it's in our own catalog data.

I kind of think it must be. But yeah, you could go there.

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Here is research on some of the book names mentioned. Okay?

And let me get my big cursor up here. And so... This is Chunzong from Chunzong.

[Speaker 3]
Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Yeah, here's Jetson. Here's the great textbook writer from Sera Che.

And here are his various works on Sema. Okay? Some of which are mentioned by Yeshe Wangchun.

Okay? There's the second and third. Didn't you say it was first and third?

I don't remember. Second and third. Yeah, so there you go.

Here's his fourth one. Oh, sorry. Here's his textbook on the fourth chapter.

[Speaker 2]
Right.

[Speaker 1]
Here's his... Here's again his textbook on the fourth chapter. By the way, when you get a hit in the New Delhi data, okay, when it says New Delhi data, that's 8,000 titles that I cataloged in New Delhi for the Library of Congress.

And they paid me money. I went there. I got the three best monks I could find.

And we had a party. And we cataloged books from early morning to late at night. And we spent the whole salary they paid me.

We invited every major... We invited representatives of every major monastery outside of Tibet. And they all came with their books.

And we cataloged them. And we helped them to print them. So that was a real great party.

So anyway, you're going to get some books in there that you can't find elsewhere. Yeah, here's a catalog entry for that one. Okay.

Here's another one of his books. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Now, they said there was a circle for Nyanja.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Which is kind of weird, because object of hearing is not something you could write a whole book about. However. Okay.

And they just called it Nyanja Circle, which means a derivative book, a book which expands on a brief mention in the classics about something to hear. And it doesn't seem to make any sense to write a whole book on what you hear.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. I'm saying that because you know the punchline here.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you know the punchline. Do you want to explain it?

[Speaker 2]
I do now. It looks like it's not a book about hearable things. It's a book which is like a supplemental summary of the commentary on valid perception, which is called The Lord of Hearable Things.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, the sweetest thing you could ever hear. Our author called it hearable thing. Okay.

So the title is The Sweetest Thing You Could Ever Hear. It's not a book about things you can hear. Okay.

I thought you'd be excited about that.

[Speaker 2]
I am excited about that, because I don't have to struggle to figure out what the hell is with Nyanja. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
By the way, it still doesn't totally explain it, and I would like to get this book input. Okay. In fact, you and Nick could check his whole list of useful books and get them all input, the ones we don't have.

That's something you guys should do. In the next few weeks, you should do that. It's not a huge job.

It's a pretty straightforward job. You could try to teach other mixed nuts to use BDRC and find us good scans. And you know I always prefer carvings.

Anyone who has typed something into the computer and hasn't used our system has corrupted the text badly. So don't use modern books. Okay.

Use a carving. Always use a carving. All right.

If there is one. In the rare case that there isn't a carving, okay, you don't have to. Okay.

Let's keep going. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
We have one minute.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. You know, you don't need me to order all these books. He just gives the author's name.

He gives the title of the book, and we should have all of them in the database before we start his real commentary. We should have those weapons in our repertoire to do a good job because all of these books are super good. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Well, we can, you know, we can put them together and organize them. And then, you know, I hate to ask you this in front of other people, but if we could get, you know, but to get them put in the database, we need.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. That's my fault. Yeah.

Yeah. We just need to make. I'll try to make a regular time with you.

You know, my schedule.

[Speaker 2]
You don't have to make it. Just meet with us once. And then we'll worry about doing it a second time after we get to.

Talking about, we're going to do it every, you know, seven times a week. As soon as we have time to do that, but let's just meet once. And then we'll think about when the next one can be.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yeah. I'll give you a.

I just got, I can't resist. Here's my internal schedule for 2022.

[Speaker 2]
I don't believe it. If it's not on paper.

[Speaker 1]
Anything.

[Speaker 2]
It's not car.

[Speaker 1]
Anything that's any day. It's not white. It's already booked any day.

That is not white. It's already booked. Okay.

[Speaker 3]
There are no white dates.

[Speaker 1]
I've been trying to tell people that. And they're like, yeah, but it's just five minutes. You know, and there isn't a single day.

In 2022. Which is not already booked. Okay.

And, and, you know, It's frustrating because people are always like. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
I can't, I can't do a thing that you want me to use you for and to not use you at the same time.

[Speaker 1]
I know.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
We'll make a date. We'll make a date. But, but I suggest.

To be practical contact. Okay. And tell her.

Oh, tell her. I agreed to do two hours with Nick and Ben. In the next two weeks.

Okay. Then. Push this stuff around.

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
But, but, but, and there's nothing on that calendar that I will not do. It's all really. Valuable things.

I won't cancel any of it. So forget that. Okay.

I'll just file on more stuff. And you guys have to explain it to Veronica. Okay.

I'm not kidding. She doesn't believe there's such a person. She didn't.

Maybe she didn't sign up for that. Nine or something. Okay.

All right. Here we go. You want to do one?

We got three minutes or not?

[Speaker 2]
No, we don't.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. Well, there you go.

Two minutes. Time actually. But I think it's very exciting.

That your author. Has given us a pile of books. That are safe to put in the database.

Let's do it. Okay. You guys are very good at finding books.

On BDRC and thank God for BDRC. And if you guys want to make a donation to BDRC. If you're into the four step idea.

If you want to understand mixed nuts books better. Make a donation to our sister organization. BDRC.

Okay. They are extremely. Important.

Extremely helpful. They've always, they've been helpful to us for 30 years. Yeah.

And we couldn't figure it out. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
For a beautiful term boss and.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you.

[Speaker 2]
I should be. Yeah. I feel like we're in a part of the book right now that I really, I should buy all rights.

Be bored with, but I don't know. I think that you've spread some sort of sickness to us. And I'm excited about learning about all these books and putting them together and writing bibliographies.

And I don't know what the hell's the matter with me, but, but it's neat. I'm enjoying it a lot.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. You know, Veronica always tells me you're so busy saving the world. I'm like, yeah.

We are. I believe everything we do is connected ACI, everything, the press. It's all connected to saving the world.

I really believe that. I think a good footnote. And a correct bibliography entry is one more step in saving the world.

I believe that. Yeah. Okay.

All right. Pizza break. We're having, we're having our unofficial last day because tomorrow I can't do it.

I can't be at the college. So we're going to eat pizza for you guys during the next class. Oh, no.

You can eat five minute pizza in five minutes. I could do it. If you don't have pizza, then just eat your heart out.

Okay. Five minutes. Probably like six slices in five minutes.

Isn't it Stanley?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah. Stanley.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yes.