Адам Андраде — Книга 2: Логика. Рассеивая тьму, занятие 8

[Speaker 1]
In making an effort to refute the mistaken idea that logic isn't necessary for Buddhist practice, points to specific instances in which Lord Buddha himself uses logic and reasoning to highlight that logic and reasoning are indeed necessary for Buddhist practice.

[Speaker 2]
What famous verse is used to highlight that reasoning which is used to which is used to prove the absence of something that is not visible to a normal human being? Give the verse in both English and Tibetan, also give the name and the reasoning in Tibetan. Can we see your pretty face or is the video not working today?

Oh yeah.

[Speaker 3]
Nice. Nice background. We're just stalling.

[Speaker 2]
Let's see. I see. But you guys, you guys know it's from course four.

[Speaker 1]
Oh yeah. Like everybody memorizes it. Right.

Totally.

[Speaker 3]
Got it.

[Speaker 1]
I or someone like myself can judge another but no one else to judge another or they will shortly fall. Yeah. Totally.

Yeah. Okay. Somebody else give me the Tibetan.

But besides Nick, I know Nick knows it because I just started saying it. Anybody else?

[Speaker 3]
All right.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, man. Go ahead, Nick. I don't know the whole thing but thanks for making me look smart.

I don't know how to say judge another. I know we both had a memorized packet in Serai. Like I know we both got it.

Yeah, we did.

[Speaker 2]
Here we go. I remember.

[Speaker 3]
Cool.

[Speaker 2]
So in another extremely famous verse where Buddha urges us to never accept anything he says merely out of respect but instead to prove it to ourselves using logic.

[Speaker 1]
What metaphor does Lord Buddha use to emphasize how we should examine even his teachings? Furthermore, correlate each element of this metaphor to one of the three types of dharma. Provide the Tibetan phrase for the metaphor in question.

Also give the three types of accurate perception of both Sanskrit and Tibetan.

[Speaker 2]
Can I answer a few of those, not all of them?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, yeah, totally.

[Speaker 1]
Group project.

[Speaker 2]
Right. So this is where we're talking about cutting or melting, cutting, and filing, right? Burning, cutting, and filing.

Burning, cutting, and filing, yes. Yeah. And the burning relates to direct perception, sama, right?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
And then we have, what are the other two again?

[Speaker 1]
Deduction, or what do you call it? Logical deduction.

[Speaker 3]
Clear thinking.

[Speaker 1]
Clear thinking, right. Yeah. Yeah.

Jay Park and Lung, right? Right. Yeah.

Yeah. Which two do they refer to in the metaphor? Jay Park's sama is cutting, right?

And Lung's sama is rubbing, or filing, or whatever. Yeah, totally. And does anybody have the Sanskrit?

[Speaker 2]
Like I know, like Nguyen Sum.

[Speaker 1]
Pratyaksha.

[Speaker 3]
Pratyaksha, Numanagama.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. And then I figured that one could get the juices rolling. The other two, like, Anima?

Wasn't that all three of them you just gave?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Agama, famous. All right. So yeah, those are kind of like hefty questions, so I only put two in there.

Yay.

[Speaker 3]
Cool.

[Speaker 1]
Awesome homework questions, man. Yeah. Okay.

So, Ghashla, you there? Hi, yeah. Am I on?

Is that Nicholas Rourke? Is that Rourke? Is that a Rourke painting?

Nick? Oh, I don't know. I don't think so.

It's just some, like, I used it for a slide for an Nagarjuna talk I gave, and I thought it would be a fun background.

[Speaker 3]
Wow. Wow. Looks like Rourke.

[Speaker 1]
It does look like Rourke's painting. Perhaps. Okay, here we go.

Let me see here. Share my screen. Okay, I think this is it.

Am I right, Adam? Yeah. You know, I put the table of contents at the beginning if you wanted to check it out.

Let me see if I got the right... Yeah, this is yours. Okay.

So, you guys, me and Adam noticed that Ketubj started saying shesinto, meaning, oh, I finished that section, now I'm going on to the next section. So, we thought it would be nice to track, to make a table of contents, a pre-table of contents that would help us know, how does Ketubj, it's almost like Ketubj's outline, and that would help us to know where we are in his commentary. So, I asked Adam to go ahead and create a pre-table of contents based on those little notes where Ketubj says, I finished this topic, now I'm going on to the next topic.

So, I thought it would take him about six months to do it. He did it in one week or two days or something. So, let's go look at it, you guys.

I haven't looked at it yet. I like that picture of Ketubj, by the way. Oh, yeah.

You also pointed out that the MEPA, you can search for MEPA to find the poetic kind of interludes. And I can only find, I can only find, I think, three verses. And so, it didn't really pan out.

PAR SKAB KYI'I THIG PAR SKAB KYI'I THIG means an interlude, a poetic interlude. And this is a tradition for big lamas. They might write a little poem about the section they just finished.

Wow, you did a lot. Oh, my God. Okay.

How many are there, Adam? Four books. I think there are 13 chapters in the first book, 13 chapters in the second, 22 in the third, and 19 in the last one.

Okay. So, Adam's translation is going to be divided up into four books, so we don't have to wait 20 years to see it. And we can already tell you some of the topics that Yaltsabje is, I'm sorry, K.W.J. is promising to cover. These two are preliminary debates, so I'm going to skip those. This really starts with number four. How would you translate the GNOD CHE?

Which one, Chudzin? GNOD CHE. I was trying to look at it, GNOD CHE means arguments against something.

[Speaker 3]
The word against it, yeah, okay.

[Speaker 1]
It just means arguments against something, yeah. So, Chudzin kind of, he's going to, so just so you guys know where K.W.J.'s going after he defends the use of logic, one of the first big subjects he's going to cover is Chudzin. What's that?

[Speaker 3]
Archetypes and rules.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, archetypes, definition, and if you're sensitive, you can see the structure of the Dura in this 600-year-old text. Is this specifically just the definition of archetypes? Or is this definition and archetypes?

To tell you the truth, I don't know until we get there. But we'll get there. Then he's going to cover a specific, what do you call it, Rongten?

Specific... Manifestation of the archetype, yeah. Yeah, of a principle.

Something about gross objects. Okay, we don't know what that is. Then he's going to treat the two realities.

And this is probably, I don't know, something about the continuation of a gross object. Then he's going to talk about attachment to things as outer objects, which is a popular topic of the Maitreya school. Then he's going to talk about why things can't be objects of sense consciousness, and then why things can be objects of the mind.

So anyway, those are those main subjects we're going to cover in the first book. And that's a great... We'll modify, we'll perfect the table of contents as we go.

Okay, but it was a big job. Can we read just a bit of that interlude? Okay, if you really want to.

We'll read one for fun, okay? I haven't read it yet, but I'll take a shot at it. Okay, we can start out with the last line.

You want to read it, Adam? Yeah, I'll try it. Okay.

This rat sum is... Okay, good. Let's see here.

Okay. There's something wrong here. Okay, I'll give you the sense of it, okay?

It's not going to be perfect. The mandala, meaning the disc of the blue sky, which covers our earth, okay? Which covers all of us.

What do you call it? It's in a forest, a canopy, okay? The canopy of the sky, okay?

The canopy of the sky which covers all of us. And little mini canopies, okay? DGOS means personal canopies, such as holes in a wall, which could, meaning windows or karkun, chimneys, okay?

Holes in a wall. GSUNGS PA'ANG LONGS PA'ANG If you thought that the two, I'm sorry, if you thought that these two, the canopy of this blue sky above and the little holes you find in walls, okay? Then the two refers to those two.

Now, if somehow you thought these two were equivalent, if you had that kind of, what do you call it? Delusion. Okay.

If that would make someone a wise man, okay? Then where could you find a mikhe? An unlearned one.

Yeah, I'll say it a little more poetically. If you think that, believing that the canopy of the sky above us and holes in the wall are equivalent, if you have that delusion, and if having that delusion is what makes you a wise man, excuse me, where could we find a fool? Okay.

Then where would you find a fool? Meaning it's a foolish idea, okay? And this is the four kinds of space.

It's a reference to the four kinds of space. We taught it in DCI. It's all about the misperception that the blue sky is empty space, is the space where the second husband is standing.

And other people say, no, no, no. It's the space between two objects, like a hole in the wall. And he says, if you think that's what empty space is, or emptiness is, if thinking that would make you a wise man, then I'm, excuse me, it'd be hard to find a fool.

Okay. Nick. Just a word question.

Chi Kyap, you were translating as covers us all. And that word usually just means like general. Is that common that Chi could just mean like everything or?

Yeah, I'll tell you why I translate it that way. Because it's part of a pair. What's the other half of the pair in this verse?

Ilkor? Gur. Gur.

Oh. You see, the general cover and the specific cover in specific locations. You see, these two are being juxtaposed.

It's juxtaposed with these two. There's the Kyap that covers all of us. And then there's the little Kyaps that are hanging around like the holes in walls.

And it's a reference to misperceptions of what is empty space. In a deeper sense, a reference to what is emptiness. Confused with empty space.

Confused with the sky. Confused with the space between objects. He's brilliantly referring to it.

I don't know what GAL CHEN, I think it's misspelled, but I can't think of what it should be right now. But the verse is clear otherwise. SNGAGS KYI MUNG KUN NA In the darkness of a forest at night, even the light of the sun can only trickle down like a firefly's shine.

When you're talking about a place, these two lines can be understood from Seiji's text. When you're talking about a place which has been overrun by poisonous plants, it's a little difficult to find medicinal shoots ripening in a situation like that. If the sunlight never reaches this place, and therefore weeds have taken over, how can you expect arura, mirabelline, or similar natural medicines to grow there?

What's that mean? What's the darkness here of the forest? It's the mind of a guy who doesn't understand the difference between the four kinds of space.

It's the mind of a guy who doesn't understand the difference between the four kinds of space. So, in the darkness of your mind, and I'm sending you my little commentary like a firefly in the Amazon, one firefly in the Amazon, my commentary I'm sending to your mind, but how can we expect anything to grow but weeds? We're not going to get any medicinal plants growing.

Okay, Adam? Yeah. Yeah, okay, so we'll get there.

We'll get there. I assume there's just been a discussion of the four kinds of space or something. All right, let's get to work.

Let's get to work. No more playing around. Yeah, totally.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you for doing that. I was just a little- Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
It's kind of serious. Now, did you look up the burning, cutting, and filing? Can you tell us which is which?

You know, I can't tell you which one is which definitively. I found two collocations that could fit, and I was hoping you could tell me which one fit better. The collocations?

Yeah.

[Speaker 3]
Adam, could you email me a copy of this file, please?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, did I? I thought I just forwarded it to you.

[Speaker 3]
Great, got it. Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
I think the quotation you found is good, Adam. Assuming he's keeping the same order, he says burning, cutting, and filing. Then he says direct perception, deduction, and credible authority.

I think we can just leave it like that. That's the correlation.

[Speaker 3]
Jamya Shepa, so I figured that's pretty reliable.

[Speaker 1]
And I think... Yeah, Jamya Shepa is good because he has a close relationship to your other author. Your other author wrote his autobiography, his biography.

The author of your Dura text, Seng Awantoshe, wrote that he was the main disciple of Jamya Shepa. So it's kind of appropriate that you're using Jamya Shepa. All right.

Let's see if this book concurs. I thought it was a stotra, and I couldn't figure out if it was composed. Never mind.

Yeah, I figured out it's... I was appraised to Je Tsongkhapa. Yeah, okay.

He doesn't give it here, but I'm satisfied with the other one. Okay, here we go. Please read this verse.

And Ellie is going to check you. Yay, Ellie. Ume tenche la gyurpe lai le kyang.

Soso kyewa nam ni tokpe jing. Mi tokneang gyorpa ninjrod in gyurwe. Tokneang lopar gyurpa kang yin de.

Nampar gyurpe njebur khenang sung. She sungwa.

[Speaker 3]
No mistakes.

[Speaker 1]
Now, why do I say he's playing? Why do I say he's playing in the first line? Anybody want to guess?

It should be a $30 question. Now word will wake up. He says entering uma la gyurpe.

Like he says, he uses gyurpe to refer to uma la gyurpe? No, I'll give it to you. It's too hard.

Most people don't realize that the book by Chandrakirti, his most famous book called Entering the Middle Way, that the middle way he's referring to is the book of Nagarjuna, is Nagarjuna's Wisdom. It's not that he's entering into a discussion of the philosophical middle way. He wants you to enter into Nagarjuna's Wisdom, which he calls the Shastra of the Middle Way.

So, Khenroop's showing off that he knows what the name of Chandrakirti's book really means, which not a lot of people understand.

[Speaker 2]
So, I think it's kind of what we're saying, right?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, so he's showing off that he knows what Madhyamaka Avatar means, and it means Madhyamaka Shastra Avatar. Entering the book on the middle way, the mother book on the middle way. It's not entering the philosophy of the middle way.

Okay, cool. He's just showing off. Okay, now translate the first line.

You can do it. You can do it. Ching means chained.

Yeah, yeah. So, ordinary beings, nam, ordinary beings, are chained by their misunderstanding. Or by their...

No, stick with misunderstanding. I like it. All right.

Who can say wrong ideas? Okay. Now, Neljar's, they need to, and so they do.

Neljar Pak. Yeah, so, it's yoga. Let's see.

Yeah, I like to say master practitioner for this usage. Okay, Neljar Pak, master practitioners, they need to. They don't have that.

[Speaker 2]
They don't have conception. They don't.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, they don't have misperception. Therefore, they get to drulwa, nam drul. Liberation.

Yeah, they get to liberation. Learning to stop your topas. Okay.

Learning to stop your topas is itself a result of nama chupa. Okay. Learning to stop...

Those misperceptions. Yeah, learning how to stop misperceptions is a result of using logic. Yeah, okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Who said that? The wise.

The wise. The wise said that, okay. The wise said that.

So, let's say the whole thing in one sentence, okay. Normal people are chained to samsara by their misunderstanding the husband in the kitchen. Master practitioners, they stopped their misunderstanding the husband in the kitchen and they got free, okay.

Now, how do you stop those misperceptions? Well, you just study logic. That's what the wise say, okay.

So, don't tell me... What?

[Speaker 2]
Oh, don't tell me that logic... They don't have to learn logic.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, don't tell me logic is stupider. Logic is just for scientists or something like that, okay. I'm having trouble with forming that second line.

For some reason, the Mithuk Naljorpa, he says... It's a... It's a master practitioner, a yogin, you're right.

But the Mithuk, non-conceptual, so... Yeah, yeah, it means Mithuk Naljorpa, okay, Mithuk. He's got his verse, it's poetry, so he doesn't have any choice.

He had to make it short, okay. Yogis who don't misperceive things, they get free. But the only way to not misperceive things is to study logic, okay.

[Speaker 3]
Sorry, I was still hung up on that one.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it just means guys who don't topa, okay, misperceive, okay. Okay, all right, now, we went and got it. I think it's exactly the same.

Oh, no, he changed the third line. No, it's the same. Yeah, okay.

Yeah, okay, yeah. By the way, he has a discussion in here which seems to say, if you start with faith and you add to it logic, then you become a follower. Sorry, no, this is different.

Don't worry about it, okay. I was just playing with it.

[Speaker 3]
Okay, let's go see here. Actually, there is a difference between the two. The one that you've got a quotation of spells SPYOD, where up above it's SPYOD.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, that's an excellent observation. Yeah, that's actually more correct, okay. Yeah, that's actually more correct.

And we translated it as logic, okay. I read it as DP, but it did say SP. Yeah, this is more correct, more correct.

All right, let's read this one, Adam. Go for it. RIG PA LA MI BSTAN PAR, TSIG TZAM GYI BYAS SU DRANG BA, BDAG DBANG PO THUB PO DE PAS BYAS SU DRANG BA, ZHES PAGS PA'I GANG ZAG GANG PHYIR LA DRAG PA'I PHYIR Okay, let's stop there.

Let's stop there. RIG PA LA MI BSTAN PAR, if you don't rely on what?

[Speaker 2]
Logic, reasoning.

[Speaker 1]
And if you just follow what somebody Tsig.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, what somebody else writes or says.

[Speaker 1]
That's pretty much the definition of a DBANG PO THUB PO person.

[Speaker 3]
A dull intellect, right?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, dull intellect person. And we refer to them as DE PA'I GANG ZAG.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, followers of faith, right?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, people who follow after Tsig. Who refers to them that way? DE PA'I GANG ZAG.

Yeah, people who are beings, who are Aryas, right? Yeah, DRAG PA means, that's the way they talk with each other. When DRAG PA, when Aryas get together, what they talk about, DRAG PA, well known to all of them, is that people who just follow whatever the teacher says and don't analyze it are by definition dull students.

All the Aryas know. But if you number CHOD PA, here's your spelling Utpala, it's your way and it's correct. But those who examine things with logic, with clear thinking and decide the matter, NI, and by using clear thinking come to a conclusion about what to LANG and what to DOR.

What to put down and what to pick, what to give up and what to pick up. Okay, now that is critical thinking, CHOD PA. That is critical thinking and that's what we want.

People who use critical thinking to decide which spiritual practices to take up and which spiritual practices to give up, those guys are CHOD KYI RJES DANG.

[Speaker 3]
Followers of Dharma.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, they're followers of the real Dharma. They don't follow after emotion, they follow after truth. Who said that?

Khenpas. Well, how do Khenpas feel about those people who follow after truth rather than following after emotion? They knock on them.

They praise them. Nice, nice. What word could you mistake for knock here?

For mantra, right? Yeah, good, mantra or tantric practice. Without the B, it means tantra.

With the B, it means to praise somebody. Great, great, Adam. Great job.

Let's go to the next part and Dr. Kramer is going to check your pronunciation. DENG NYID KYI CHUR RIG PEI CHO BA PHUR LEN PA NYED TOG GE TSUL YIN PEI DROR WA DENG NYER LA KO WA MA YIN NO SHE JA WE DUR KYI TSIT LA SHE DENG DAG KYI NA WE GA BAR CHUR SHIG Okay, I want to restate my note to myself here. Those who say throwing yourself in sedimentation, is that other sciences, actually.

All right, so the opponent here, his position is, LHUR LEN PA means to really enjoy something and use it all the time. Throw yourself into what? Examining reality with logic.

So those guys say, look, losing yourself in using logic all day is just RTOG BSGYAS. RTOG BSGYAS means useless disputation of Hindus, like that other major science. It's just arguing, nitpicking about stuff.

RTOG BSGYAS can have that pejorative connotation you should know. In Buddhism, like RTOG BSGYAS BAR BA, the blaze of reasoning, it's a compliment. But sometimes RTOG BSGYAS is used as an insult to mean nitpicking.

So those people who say, and there's the BAS in the second line. Look, logic is just BS, people BSing each other all day. BRTUL BA DON YOD LA KHO BA MA YIN It's not KHO BA for people who aspire to BRTUL BA.

It's not something they need. Yeah, great. It's not a necessity for people who aspire to BRTUL BA.

[Speaker 2]
Liberation.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Now, $200 for the last line. Take your time.

It's open to anybody, even Dr. Smith. Take your time, take your time. In fact, when I got to this line, I read it to Veronica because it was so cool.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Let's see.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, and you can break it down into pieces for me if you want to earn... How much did I say, Eli? Did I say $200?

$200. Okay, I'll give you 40s or 50s if you give me pieces. All right.

Let's see. By the way, Adam, this is going to the Ava College Fund, you know that, okay? Yeah, totally.

Okay. Give me any pieces you know, and I'll give you corresponding pieces of the money. Okay.

DUG KYI TSE, words of a demon. Good, good, good. And the SHES BYA BA is a quotation, right?

Just a quotation mark from before. Yeah, yeah, it's just like a quotation indicator. These are words of a demon.

Okay. So, last SHES. DEN, so DEN possess.

Yeah, you can say SHES of DEN. Have the awareness. Those who have the intellect.

Good, good, good. I'll give you a clue for CHOS. CHOS is the imperative of TSE BA.

So, especially combined with the SHES, it's definitely imperative. Yeah, it's the imperative of TSE BA, okay? Yeah, you should close...

You should stop listening. Yeah, GAT means to cover up. GAT means to cover up.

Okay, so you should close your ears. Yeah, cover your ears with your palms, guys. Okay, why?

If somebody says, you don't need logic because it's just BS, it's just some minor science. You know, these are the words of a demon. And if you have a brain, please, immediately, cover your ears with your hands.

Okay, that's Khenpoche. I'd say that was a $150 answer. Okay, you guys got really good answers.

Thanks for letting me slide on that one. No, I'm giving you three quarters, okay? $150.

Yeah, so it's... You know who it sounds like? Who does it sound like?

Nick?

[Speaker 3]
Gyaltsabje. It sounds like Gyaltsabje.

[Speaker 1]
It sounds like this arrogant Gyaltsabje thing to say. I think they were hanging out so much together, they started talking like each other.

[Speaker 3]
I wonder if Gyaltsabje picked up a pen and just kind of wrote that when Khenpoche wasn't looking.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. So what does Khenpoche say here? He says, look, if anyone comes and tells you, you don't need logic to reach liberation, spiritual perfection, please, these are the worst stupid thing a person can say, and please, please, please plug your ears, okay?

All right? All right. You need clear thinking because if you have clear thinking, you can stop your misunderstanding.

That's all. All right. To tie it to the last quotation.

All right, let's go, Adam. Nyipa... nyipa nyo kyi kye par la thos te gop ne kyi lok tok kap pa ni Yeah, this is the second part of his outline.

Here's where he mentioned the three parts. Here's where he offered us the three parts. thos te gop ne kyi lok tok kap pa We have finished section one, which is stopping the stupid idea that relative to the pursuit of liberation, logic is unneeded.

Okay? Got it? Now we're going to stop another wrong perception that there is no need for clear thinking relative to a certain feature of the object.

We don't know what he's talking about yet. Relative to a certain feature of an object, logic is also useless. That's his second misperception that Ketubje is going to discuss.

Here we go. Please read, Adam. Kachinare, deden giten chud didak shin te shiro pa kaktsang giched du nye war ko wa yinpe dedang mepe san chok su nyenpa den pang senpa sok che pa nyi gop pa me do she ser do Yeah, now, okay.

Well, we're going to come back to that. We're going to come back to the second point. YUL GYI BSKYED PAR LA LTOS Relative to a feature of the yul, the logic is unnecessary.

The study of logic is unnecessary. Relative to a particular feature of the yul, the study of logic is unnecessary. Now it's going to become clear.

Somebody says, these tenges of the deden, what's that mean? The text which comprises the seven. Great, of Dharmakirti.

Classical commentary, yeah. The great seven classics on logic by Dharmakirti. The only time you need them, nye war ko wa, the only time you need them, is in order to gakpa chiropas.

It's for the purpose of stopping non-Buddhists. Yeah, and specifically early Hindu schools outlined in somebody's famous translation. Okay, all right.

Now, if you're living in a sa chok, where de dag me, where there's chiropas me, Yeah, if you're living in a place where there aren't any non-Buddhists. Yeah, there's no Sankhyas running around, there's no Nyayakas running around. If you're living in America and there's no Sankhyas running around, there's no reason to nyenpa about logic and there's no reason to semba about logic.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, there's no reason to listen and there's no reason to think about it. There's no reason to listen to the lectures about logic or think about them.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Therefore, we don't need them. We don't need the seven.

They're not necessary anymore. There's no Nyayakas, there's no Sankhyas running around Arizona or Colorado either, although there's probably more likely in Colorado. I'm just kidding.

Now, now let's go back to the name of this section and you're going to enlighten us. Relative to a keeper of the yul, there's no necessity for logic. These seven books on logic.

Relative to a keeper of the yul, there's no need for these seven books on logic. You got me? I'm still, for some reason, I'm drawing a blank.

Think of yul as desha, as in Bangla desha.

[Speaker 3]
Ah, wapayu.

[Speaker 1]
Relative to the details of the country where you live. Yeah, relative to a particular feature. Yeah.

What feature of the country you live in. Whether or not you got Sankhyas around. Oh, sorry.

Yeah, sorry. Yeah, sure. I get it.

But to tell you the truth, we couldn't have guessed that. I was in left field. You know, it could very well have meant features of the object of perception, right?

We didn't know until we got to the commentary. Okay. He claims.

Okay. And here's Kiru-ji's gentle response. Dr. Kramer, check his pronunciation. He's trying to find something wrong.

[Speaker 3]
Mm-hmm. Definitely correct.

[Speaker 2]
Sorry.

[Speaker 3]
I like it better your way.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. And yeah, okay. That's a log talk in itself.

Okay. That idea is a log talk, a big log talk. What's log talk?

[Speaker 3]
Idea to be executed.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, that's a big bad idea. That's a big wrong idea, that if there's no Hindus running around who follow some Sankhya school or something else, that we don't need the seven books on logic, because originally the seven books on logic were meant to try to enlighten them. That's not only a lotok, that's a lotok of a very serious brand called chippong.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, where you're giving up the Dharma.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it's a very serious bad karma. It's like saying, you know, I studied for five years with Ben and then I decided it was all BS. And then that's chippong.

That's a famous bad karma. That's a super bad karma. Okay, that's a super bad karma.

That's like saying, there's no kyewa nga chi. Therefore, I can do any dikpa I want to. Yeah, there's no birth, aging, sickness or death.

I can do any bad deed I want. Yeah, there's no past and future lives. Therefore, I don't have to try to do good deeds and give up bad deeds.

Because there's no future life. I can do whatever I want. That's the beer advertisement for $10.

Beer? One life to live or something like that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you got it.

$10 for the Amalie Scholarship Fund. Yeah, I think it was Budweiser. One life to live.

One life to live. Drink a 12 pack. I just know from ACI course, whatever that was.

Okay, Nick, I would offer you $10 to explain how I know about that. ACI course one. Yeah, but how did I know about it to even talk about it?

[Speaker 3]
Watching baseball with my Lama.

[Speaker 1]
Baseball with my Lama. Yeah, watching baseball with my Lama. By the way, recently I watched Super Bowl highlights just to honor Ken Rinpoche.

There was one really good run. All right. Three minutes Geshe-la, just so you know.

Three more minutes. Adam, he's going to give another example of a ridiculous similar idea. Here we go.

THAR PA DANG THAMS CAD KHYAMS PA MED PAS THEG CHUG PAS PHYIR LAM PHYIR LAM LA MED PA DON MED PA DANG Yeah, it's meaningless to make big efforts in the path since what? THAR PA MED and THAMS CAD KHYAMS PA MED Because there's no omniscience and there's no liberation, no freedom. Yeah, good.

So, yeah, it would be pointless to make efforts. Yeah, nirvana. By the way, when THAR PA is opposed to THAMS CAD KHYAMS PA, you have to read it as nirvana.

I mean, not literally, but you have to think of it that way. There's no such thing as getting rid of your anger forever. There's no such thing as directly perceiving every single event in the universe, past, present, and future at the same moment.

Therefore, it's meaningless to make efforts in the path. Those two crazy statements are similar to the statement you just made about logic. Got it?

We have time, right? Two more minutes. Let's read, Adam.

Okay. Okay. Okay, I'm going to stop there, but here we go.

We tend to overrate and we tend to underrate things when we look at the four misperceptions about our body and mind, where we take dirty things to be clean, where we take suffering things to be happiness, where we take impermanent things to last, and where we think that things without a self-nature do have a self-nature. We tend to either overestimate our condition in life or we tend to underestimate our condition in life. All of these kinds of extreme positions can be stopped by relying on the very detailed method presented in these classics.

What classics? On logic, on nyaya. The seven great books.

The seven great books. Got it? Chinditak, he uses the plural.

These classics. He must be referring to the seven.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, I guess we should stop there.

[Speaker 1]
Yay! We're out of time, boss. Yeah, and it's a good place to break it.

By the way, he's going to... Yeah, okay. He'll go.

By the way, you guys can almost read this. It's not that difficult. Stop here.

You could read this in a year or two, I think. Two, 24. A little bit of a hard time today.

Yeah, we all have hard times. Okay, give me some Japanese food. SASHI, PUTI, JUKSHI, METAR, TRAM RIDDHA, BLINKSHI, NIMDE, GYENPADHI SANGE, SHINDU, MIKTE, UNGWARDI DROKON, NAMDAK, SHINGLA, DRUKHAR, SHOK IRAM, GURU, RATNA, MANGALA, TAMDE, YATAYAMI NGEWA, NIYE, KYEWOKUN SONAM, YESHE, TSOKTSOKSHI SONAM, YESHE, LEBYONGWE DAMPA, KUNYI, THOBAR SHOK Yay!

Awesome. Awesome! Thank you, Geshe-la, for another awesome day.

MINKEN JIN Thank you, Adam. You did a nice job on the table of contents. That was awesome.