Адам Андраде — Книга 2: Логика. Рассеивая тьму, занятие 7

[Speaker 2]
SANGYE SHINGGUNG MIKTAYO BARGEE DROKUN NAMDAR SHINGLA CHUPHAR SHOK IRAM GURA RANAMANDA THANDIYATARINA SANGYE CHURONG THOKYI CHOG NAMLA JANG CHUNG BARDU DANG MI KHYO SU CHING DAG GI CHUN YEN GYI PASAR NAM KYI DROKUN NAMDAR SHINGLA CHUPHAR SHOK SANGYE CHURONG THOKYI CHOG NAMLA JANG CHUNG BARDU DANG MI KHYO SU CHING DAG GI CHUN YEN GYI PASAR NAM KYI DROKUN NAMDAR SHINGLA CHUPHAR SHOK SANGYE CHURONG THOKYI CHOG NAMLA JANG CHUNG BARDU DANG MI KHYO SU CHING DAG GI CHUN YEN GYI PASAR NAM KYI DROKUN NAMDAR SHINGLA CHUPHAR SHOK

[Speaker 1]
Hey, Adam, you got younger. How do you do that?

[Speaker 2]
Lots of hard work.

[Speaker 1]
All right, here we go. All that baritone singing. All right, here's Adam's text, which is called Destroying the Darkness.

We're doing pretty good. We're doing pretty good progress. Let me see, let me see.

The commentary to The Diamond Cutter was... How many pages? Oh, it was 500 pages.

And I think Adam's book is going to be four times longer. So I think it's good to split it into four books of 500 pages each. If we speed up, we can finish your first book in about four years.

Four or five years. And by the way, the reason I got attracted to Adam's book is its presentation of objects and subjects, and we will cover that in the first book. Yeah, Adam, we were thinking you could have a pre-table contents.

Did you figure that out? I'm sorry I didn't answer your email about it.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, no, I sent it over in an email.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, let's look at it next time. Let me take a look at it first. I think it's going to make it more fun for you to track your progress through the book if we follow the divisions that Khenruje put in his own book, right?

Okay. Why are we reading this? Oh yeah, okay.

We had reference to that famous... Okay, we're ready to start your text. We had just finished that famous quotation, NGA'ANG NGANG DANG DRA BA'I KHAR ZLAG GIS TSOS GSUNG GI GZHAN GYIS TSOS GSUNG BA MI CHAL TE NYAM PAR RGYUR DA RES Do you remember what it means?

Buddha is advising the monks. If you are... Yeah, if you're not a Buddha, you probably shouldn't try to judge other people.

Exactly, yeah. If you happen to be equal to me, you can judge your friends. But otherwise, I suggest you don't do it.

NYAM PAR RGYUR DA RES, you will get in trouble. This is quoted constantly by Tibetans. I think the most famous reference is in...

Is it Atisha's Sutra Samuchaya? Atisha's collection of sutra stories. But I think I found the original, and I thought we could read it together.

It's in the Karmashataka, which is the Hundred Kinds of Karma. It's in the Sutra section of the Kangyur. Here's the whole quotation.

I thought it would be good karma if we read it together. Here's the whole quotation. This is the original, original, original.

It's been rehashed in many different versions. But here's the real quotation. Please read Adam in...

Xiaoping can check in. She didn't fall asleep, right?

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Good.

[Speaker 1]
You want to translate it? Hey, Gelongs. Hey, all you monks.

Shengyang means, moreover, nobody should take the measure of another person. Nobody should take the measure of another person.

[Speaker 2]
Karmashataka means, sir. Sir Masam.

[Speaker 1]
Sir Masam. This sir is related to say, like in Sema. Take the measure.

Take the measure. Good. Hey, monks.

What's the second sentence say? If you sir sung na, nyamba.

[Speaker 2]
If you think.

[Speaker 1]
If you try to take the measure of another person, you will...

[Speaker 2]
You'll fall. You'll surely fall.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you will fail. Then he says, hey monks, na, sir sung rung.

[Speaker 2]
People who are like me, who are of my... Yeah, people who are like me.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you can sir sung.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, yeah, you can take their measure. I mean, yeah, you can judge them.

[Speaker 1]
You can judge other people. So, it's actually the opposite of the way it's quoted all the time. The way it's quoted is, ,GANG ZAG GI GANG ZHIG TSUL GSUNG BA MI BYA'I DE NYAM PA RGYUR TE, ,SNGA DANG SNGA BRAL MA YIN PA, ,GZHAN GYI TSUL GSUNG BA MI BYA'I DE NYAM PA RGYUR TE, So, the actual quotation is a little bit different, but it's the same point.

Okay. Why are we talking about not judging people? Do you remember, Adam?

You know, not off the top of my head. I'm going to see. Oh, oh, oh.

He's giving examples of how normal thought processes in the world are reflected in the forms of logical discussion. Okay. And this is an example of MA MIG PA'I THAG YANG DAG.

A type of reason for something which is not normally visible. The classic example is proving the existence of prey or hungry ghosts through logic, because normally they are not visible to a human being. So, the example here is MI NANG BA MA MIG PA'I THAG.

Everybody say MI NANG BA? MI NANG BA MA MIG PA'I THAG MA MIG PA'I THAG MI NANG BA MA MIG PA'I THAG MA MIG PA'I THAG Yeah. MA MIG PA'I THAG means a logical statement which is a negative, where you are proving the absence of something.

And MI NANG BA means you are proving the absence of something which is not normally visible to a normal human being. You are proving something about something which is not normally visible to a human being. The classic example is pretas.

In the room, most of us probably have pretas in our room right now. We can prove it logically, but we cannot see them. Now, to give the example of that guy, he is trying to prove to this idiot that logic is not necessary for Buddhists.

He is trying to prove that the Buddha himself used logic constantly. And when the Buddha said, don't judge other people unless you are somebody like me, the Buddha was actually using a form of logic based on a negative and proving something about something which is not visible to a normal person. Okay, got it?

When the Buddha said, don't judge other people, he was using this famous form of logic which I am going to teach you. So don't tell me that Buddhism doesn't need these forms of logic. The Buddha used them all the time.

Yay! Now, we are expecting another form of logic which is going to be given as an example of a form of logic that Lord Buddha used constantly. But our listener, our imaginary opponent, he thinks this logic is not important for Buddhists.

And we are about to say, hey, here is another form of logic that Buddha used himself. Don't tell me logic is not necessary. So we are expecting another form of logic that Buddha used on a normal basis.

Here we go. So, Tsen Rin Gyi.

[Speaker 2]
Tsen Rin Gyi CHUNG LDAN DE LA LTA MI THAMS CAD MI SOS PO SHES SO BA LA CHUNG LDAN DE GYIS GANG MI SOS PAR DE YANG MI MI SOS THAM SHES SONG PA SOGS KYIS PHAL BA THAM SEMS CAN BRTEN LA Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Tsen Rin Gyi is the name of a non-Buddhist sage. Does anybody remember what it means? It's Dyrga Naka.

Long fingernails. Long fingernails, yeah. I guess he was meditating for a long time in a cave and his fingernails grew long.

He was called Mr. Long Fingernails. He said to the Buddha, THAMS CAD MI SOS I can't stand anything.

[Speaker 2]
I can't stand anything at all.

[Speaker 1]
Perfect translation. Perfect translation. I couldn't have done it better myself.

This guy goes up to Buddha and says, I can't stand anybody or anything. I can't stand anybody or anything. Everybody's an idiot.

Then Buddha said, Oh, GANG MI SOS PAR DE YANG MI SOS Can you SOS your MI SOS PAR? I guess you can't stand that you can't stand anything. Great.

Perfect translation. Yay. Jigme, a hundred bucks for this gentleman.

Really, you deserve it. I guess you can't stand you're can't standing, right? I guess you can't stand you're not standing, right?

By the way, could he stand he's not standing or couldn't he? He could. He felt comfortable with it.

He said, I can't stand anybody. Then Buddha said, well, I guess you can't stand... He said, I can't stand anybody or anything.

They're all stupid. And Buddha said, can you stand you're not standing? Okay.

Can you also not stand you're not standing? Which means he is standing. And what do we call that kind of sarcastic statement?

It's a tenure. It's a tenure. Okay.

It's also called a destruction. Okay. Sun Jin is an atomic bomb logical statement.

It destroys the other guy's position. Okay. It happens to be that this form of statement is both a sarcastic proof and also what we call a refutation.

Okay. A pure refutation. The Buddha has, and we call it consequence or implication, right?

And a school is named after it. So therefore, why is Ketub J giving us this sentence, Adam? Why is Ketub J giving us this sentence?

Because we were looking for a second type of logical statement. Yeah, perfect. This guy says, stop all this logic crap.

Just read the sutras. Okay. And then we said, but the sutras are full of logic themselves.

In fact, when you tell us why we shouldn't use logic crap, you're using logic. Okay. Got it?

When you're trying to convince me not to be logical, you are using logic yourself. Come on. So, this statement by Lord Buddha to Mr. Long Fingernails shows that the use of tengyur, sarcastic statements, is a kind of logic that Buddha used himself. Okay. By the way, centering is often called kundugyur. Anybody can tell me why?

Parivrajika. Stars? It means the wandering saint.

Oh, he always wanders. Yeah, he's walking everywhere. He just wanders.

Aimlessly wandering, long fingernail saint. All right. Here's his...

I found it, folks. It's Agnivisha. Agnivisha.

Okay. I guess he's an Ayurveda person. Something like that.

And he also appears... I found the quotation. Where is it?

Yeah, here it is, Adam. Here's where he says, I can't stand anything. Okay.

Okay. Yeah, okay. Here's where he says it, okay?

So if you want to, you can put that in a footnote. I don't see... Yeah, it's right here.

Let's read it together, okay? I'm going to put it here. Let's put it in a larger font.

Okay, Adam, please read the big letters. Who's going to check him? Sugeng?

Sure.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Let's read it together. To the conqueror, the wandering saint named Long Fingernails, he said the following statement.

DK CHE KHO SO TO SKYE RGA LTA MA What's that mean? Hey, Lord Buddha. We have SKYE RGYUD, right?

Hey, hoo-hoo. And here's RGYA LTA MA spelled in Tibetan letters, okay? Hey, RGYA LTA MA.

I can't stand anything in the universe. Okay. Then Buddha responds.

Please read this one.

[Speaker 2]
MANG RGYUD KYI BUG KHYOD KYI BDAG THAMS CAD MI SOGS PAR THA BU'I GANG YIN PAS THA BU'I DE YANG MI SOGS Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Is it also the case that you have the viewpoint that you can't stand your viewpoint of you can't stand anything? Okay, got it. And then he calls him a child who jumps in the fire.

And I think it was some kind of Hindu practice or something.

[Speaker 2]
MANG RGYUD KYI BUG Yeah, okay.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Is it the case that you can't stand your viewpoint that you can't stand anything? Okay.

All right. That's the actual wording, okay? So you can put that in your footnote.

All right. Read this one, which comes directly from Sugeng's text.

[Speaker 2]
RGYUD KYI BUG KHYOD PHYIR YOD NA PHYIR NYID BYUNG GZHES SOGS KYIS RGYAL BA DANG Yeah, this is a reference to RGYAL BRTAG YANG BRTAG Say RGYAL BRTAG.

[Speaker 1]
RGYAL BRTAG YANG BRTAG Okay. YANG BRTAG SDU BDEN GYI LA LA SPYOD CHEN MED YOD DE SDU BA YOD PA'I PHYIR There's the classical example of a delta. It's a logical statement which depends on a relationship, a cause and effect relationship.

SDU BDEN GYI LA LA SPYOD CHEN SDU BA BDEN GYI LA LA SPYOD CHEN Let's take a mountain pass where there is... Smoke. Smoke.

MED YOD DE MED YOD DE There must be fire. SDU BA YOD PA'I PHYIR Because there's smoke. Now, the Buddha used logical statements of cause and effect when he said, DI YOD NA, DE YOD If this exists, then this will come about.

[Speaker 2]
Then this will happen. If this happens, then that will happen.

[Speaker 1]
Great. He said it frequently in the sutras, but we're going to take this one because it's good luck. Can anybody tell me why?

We're going to take this one. DEN CING BRAL BAR CHUNG BA DANG PO DANG NAM PAR YOD PA'I DEN PA We're going to use this one for our footnote. Why?

Dependence? Buddha said it in many scriptures. Buddha said it in many scriptures.

But we're going to use this one. Why this one in particular? Yeah, why are we using this one?

Why did Geshe-la want you to use this one? It's about dependence, dependent origination. Come on, you guys.

This is the sutra that Vasubandhu is commenting on in Sugeng's text. This is the book.

[Speaker 2]
It's directly from Sugeng's text.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, using Sugeng's mother book. Yeah. Sexy.

It's really sexy. Where is it here? Okay, let's clean it up here.

Sorry. By the way, the structure of Sugeng's original sutra is... The structure of the sutra is called The First Principles and the Divisions.

The First Principles and the Divisions. That's the name of the sutra that Vasubandhu is commenting upon. Who can guess what's the first principle, and who can guess what's the divisions?

The first principle is dependent origination. What's the first principle?

[Speaker 2]
Dependence.

[Speaker 1]
The first principle is right here.

[Speaker 2]
It's dependence. It's practicality.

[Speaker 1]
Here it is. If that's there, then this is going to happen. Uh-huh.

The logic. Okay. That's called dangpo in the sutra.

It's called adi. It's called the first principle. What are the divisions?

The twelve links. Yeah, the twelve links. The book that Sugeng's about to spend seven years on, translating the commentary to, is the sutra called The Presentation of the First Principle of Dependence and the Twelve Links.

The first principle is, if that happens, then this is going to happen. Which applies to all twelve links. If you got misunderstanding, you're going to collect karma.

If you collect karma, your mind is going to enter your mom's womb. If your mind enters your mom's womb, your sense powers are going to form. Like that, etc.

Okay?

[Speaker 2]
Speaking of which, Geshe-la, my mom's on the call.

[Speaker 1]
Yay, mom! You did a good job with that boy. His book is going to come out this year.

He's going to be famous among the six people who read our books. I'm just kidding. Yeah, so there it is.

Now, when Buddha said in Sugeng's sutra, if this happens, that's going to happen, he was using the logic which is the same as saying, if there's smoke, then there's fire. Got it? Don't tell me Buddhists don't need logic.

Now, here's his... By the way, what's happening, Adam, is he's going through the common forms of logic, all of them, or most of them, and he's showing that Buddha used all of them in his teaching. Here's the next one.

Here we go. Please read. Sugeng, you're checking.

Sure, my honor.

[Speaker 2]
,GANG PHRAG NGAG PAR BSTAN PA'I, ,RNGAL BA'I NGANG BZHAG BSTAN PA'I, Good.

[Speaker 1]
If Nangwa starts, mamba stops.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, so if light appears, then darkness is eradicated. Good, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
If you turn on the light switch, the darkness runs away. And if you get the nyenpo, then the pangcha runs away.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. When the antidote has arisen, has come about, then the thing to be discarded is eliminated.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, so let's say the pangcha is wasting your time in your life.

[Speaker 3]
What's the nyenpo?

[Speaker 1]
What was that again? Sorry. Let's say that you have a bad habit of wasting your time, and that's a pangcha.

What's the nyenpo? What's the fifth for it? Help someone else?

From the lam rim, from the lam rim.

[Speaker 2]
Meditate on death.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you're not going to live forever. Come on, do something with your time. Okay, so Buddha is pointing out the principle of gelwa.

Contradiction. Yeah, which a guy named Adam just translated a whole section of a book about. Gel gel ki nam shak.

The principle of contradiction in logic, in the physical world, and in the spiritual world. If you turn on the light, the darkness runs away. If you turn on the meditation about your impermanence, you won't waste your time anymore.

Therefore, Buddha utilized the principle, the logical principle of what, Adam? Gelwa. Contradiction.

Yeah, he used contradiction. He did use contradiction. Therefore, on one more count of common formal logic, Buddha used it in his everyday teaching.

And guess what? I went and found it for you. Here it is.

I was just curious if I could find all the places where Buddha actually said this stuff. Yeah, it's really cool. It is cool.

We're actually improving on Khenpoche. I hope he sends me a royalty. I don't know.

Okay, here we go. Please read. This is the actual sutra.

[Speaker 2]
DE PHYI NI PHYIR ZHES NA, GAL TE NANG BA LAS BYUNG BA YIN NA, DE MA THAG TU MONG BA NGAG STE NGAG STE LA'I MONG BA MI THONG BA'ANG RGYUR RO Yeah, GAL TE means if, NANG BA.

[Speaker 1]
What's NANG BA mean, Adam?

[Speaker 2]
If light.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I don't know why the LAS here, but maybe it's just some kind of old language. If light comes into a room, DE MA THAG TU, what's DE MA THAG TU mean?

[Speaker 2]
Then that's the last moment.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, right after that, in the next instant, MONG BA NGAG Darkness is shed. And then that MONG BA, you MI THONG. Excuse me?

Then you MI THONG that MONG BA.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, well, then you don't have to experience that darkness anymore.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you can't see it anymore. You can't see it anymore. The darkness runs away and you can't see it anymore.

Now, if MONG BA comes into a room, then DE MA THAG TU NANG BA RGYUR. Yeah, if darkness comes into the room, then that's the last moment that the light will appear. Yeah, and then the light is MI THONG.

[Speaker 2]
Not experienced anymore.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, then you can't see it anymore. The Buddha's not talking...

[Speaker 2]
Oh yeah, THONG, yeah, sorry.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, he's not talking about light, and he's not talking about dark. He's talking about spiritual antidotes and spiritual problems, okay? Cool?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, now, Khen Rinpoche is going to wrap up. He took specific logical tools, and he proved that Buddha used them all the time. Okay, so here's his wrapping up statement.

Go ahead.

[Speaker 2]
DOR NA DE DANG JI SPYOD BYA PHAL CHE BA RGYAL BA'I GSUNG RA DANG RE RE NAS PHYAR BAR NUS MO GYIS YID DGE MA'ANG PHAR RUNG GYUR BA'I MA CI SO Great, so here he's wrapping up.

[Speaker 1]
DOR NA means, okay, just to summarize, the subject matter of the seven great books of Dharmakirti, the majority of those logical tools that he talks about can be correlated, RE RE NAS BYAR means can be correlated to specific statements in the scriptures. You can go through every logical tool there is, and you can find a corresponding place in the original teachings where Lord Buddha used it. Okay, $50 for anybody.

YID DGE MA'ANG PHAR RUNG GYUR BA'I MA CI SO MA CI is, I'm not going to write. I'm not going to. I'm not going to write it.

I'm not going to write. I'm not going to write here because, YID DGE MA'ANG, because there'd be too many letters. Yeah, my book would be covered.

It would make too many letters. It'd make it too long. Hey, Ali, $50 for Adam.

$50 for Adam. Are you there, Ali? She's my banker in America.

[Speaker 3]
I'll send her a text right now.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, $50 for Adam. Perfect. He said, look, you want me to take every single logical tool we ever have, and you want me to relate it to a specific scripture?

I can do it. I just gave you like 10. There's dozens more logical tools that we use, but MA'ANG PA'GYUR.

It would make it too plentiful. It would make it too long. Yeah.

Instead of Adam taking 10 years to finish his book, it would take him 15 years to finish his book. Let's have a little compassion for translators who are coming in 600 years from now. Okay, go ahead.

Who's checking is Utpala? Yay.

[Speaker 3]
Thank you. This is an easy job.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
RGYUN PA'I MDOD BAR CHA DGOS SO $100, Adam. Work it out. Slow, $100.

Slow, go slow. Therefore... Yeah, Deyna, therefore...

These ventures about Sema. These classical commentaries about accurate perception. Yeah, if they are not NANG RIG PA, if they are not the inner science.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, if they're not Buddhist knowledge. Yeah. Then you would...

Let's see. Then the...

[Speaker 1]
Then the Sura is not true.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, then the speech of Lord... Then the speech of the victor wasn't Buddhist knowledge either.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah, good, $100. Okay, Utpala, let my banker know.

[Speaker 2]
Hey, I'm right here.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, sorry, banker, I didn't hear you. Okay, look, if these seven books on clear thinking... Okay, we're going to forget the word logic, okay, Adam?

Okay, so NANG RIG, we're going to use clear thinking? No. Well, yeah, RIG PA, logic, okay?

If these seven books are not a Buddhist science, okay, don't forget NANG RIG PA means the fifth of the classical sciences, which is Buddhism, okay? If these books on logic are just belong to the study, the classical science of logic, okay, epistem, I don't know what you call it, of logic, and they don't belong to the fifth classical science of Buddhism because one of the earlier four classical sciences is logic, okay? So if you say these seven books on logic by Dharmakirti, they don't belong in the classical science of Buddhism because they already belong in the classical science of logical forms, okay?

Then okay, let's move the whole kangyur and tengyur to general logic, the general science of logic. Then everything the Buddha ever spoke is not Buddhism, okay? All right.

By the way, you want to earn another 20 bucks, Adam? This is a good night, okay? All right.

What logical form did he just use to prove his point about logical forms?

[Speaker 2]
Scriptural authority, yeah?

[Speaker 3]
Or, oh, sorry.

[Speaker 2]
Tengyur.

[Speaker 3]
Oh, was it consequence?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it's a sarcasm. It's sarcasm. It's a tengyur.

Oh, yeah, okay. So CHOS CHOS MA YIN PA THAL. So the dharma must not be dharma, why?

Because it belongs in the logic, you know, okay? It doesn't belong in the inner science of Buddhism, okay? Yeah, he has used sarcasm, which is considered one of the highest forms of logic, which is why logicians usually get killed by their societies like Socrates, okay?

Anyway, all right. Now we got another quotation. You guys ready?

All right, let's go, Adam. Who's checking your utpala? Yes, please.

[Speaker 2]
SHEN YANG JUM DIN DE KYI. SHEN YANG JUM DIN DE KYI. KEI LANG DAK KANG.

I don't know why that feels, KEI LANG DAK KANG. KEI NANG KYI. Good.

ZHUGS CHE LTAR BA'I ZER SHIN TU. Good. LHAG PAR BTAG LA MA YI DKA'ANG BAR BYA YI DGOS SPYIR NEN.

[Speaker 1]
Extremely famous, extremely famous quotation, okay? You guys, if you want to memorize something, this is a great one to memorize, okay? Moreover, the Buddha himself said, okay, I don't care if you're a Geylang or a Kepa.

Yeah, oh, I don't care if you're a master or a monk. You should LANG MA YI DKA'ANG. You should KEI LEN MA YI DKA'ANG, my words.

You should accept what I teach you only after LHAG PAR BTAG. After you've taught, examined well LHAG PAR BTAG. Don't believe something out of Kepa for me.

Out of respect. Yeah, Buddha said, don't ever accept something I said just because you respect me. Prove it to yourself.

Prove it to yourself, okay? Now, this other guy wants to say what? Logic is not Buddhism.

But the founder of Buddhism said, you better use logic anytime I teach you, okay? Okay, got it? Now, what's the three kinds of logic you might want to use?

Second line, second line. Like ser, as if you were checking ser.

[Speaker 2]
Gold. Yeah. So you would sect, burn, change, cut.

Yeah. And dharwa, oh, it's file. Yeah, to our, yeah, to our computer.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and these relate to three kinds of serma, okay? Each one of these three relates to a different kind of serma. These are three metaphors for how to check what Lord Buddha taught us.

First, you should burn it. Then you should cut it. Then you should file it.

Each one relates to a different kind of logical process, okay? And I went and got you, it's in a bunch of places, okay? Shantarakshita uses it a lot, okay?

Here's the quotation as, he's quoting it as Shantarakshita quotes it, okay? In his Tatva Sangraha, okay? So that's one place, all right?

And then here's another place, which is a commentary to the Kalachakra, okay? And he says it again, but he says it in a different order. It's the same one.

It's the same, but he mentions the kapas after the burning, okay? Oh, I see what you're saying. Got it?

Yeah. Yeah, okay. So there's another case where he said it.

And here's another case where he said it. Okay, Shantarakshita again. And this is the same reading.

So probably it was that one. Now, I thought you might be interested. I found this other reference to these tests of gold, okay?

And this is from the Kanya. This is Lord Buddha talking himself, okay? And let's read this one together, okay?

Here it is here. Very interesting, okay? Let's read it together.

Go ahead, Adam.

[Speaker 2]
,YI LTAR RIN CHEN DAG BA DANG, ,ZER NI ZAG DANG PHYIR PA'I DAG, ,DE GZHAN DU NI LO MA YANG, ,LO NI CHU NI BAR DU DAG, Okay, Adam, go very slow.

[Speaker 1]
And I'm willing to give $100 for this one. Go very slow, okay? Take your time.

,LO NI CHU NI BAR DU DAG, Don't forget DAG BA means to file, okay? Yeah. Yeah, so, YI LTAR RIN CHEN.

So you would examine it like you would jewels. Yeah, you file a jewel. Actually, you still do it.

You file it with a corundum, which is ruby and sapphire is harder than steel. So, if the steel breaks, you got a real ruby or sapphire, okay? Now, if you want to check ZER.

Yeah, if you want to check the gold, then you burn it and cut it to examine it. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Now, the $100 I'm offering you depends on your correct reading of the last two lines.

You got to impress your mom, come on.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, so in the same way that a student would examine their teacher for 12 years, or, no, sorry.

[Speaker 1]
You got it. You should talk the Loma.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, the students.

[Speaker 1]
Well, I don't know. You know, it's traditional. The traditional joke is that you shouldn't accept a teacher until you check them for 12 years.

And the traditional joke is that the teacher, when you go to the teacher and say, I checked you for 12 years and now I decided you're a good teacher, the teacher will say...

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, give me 12 years. I'll tell her that.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I'm ready to check you for 12 years. I think we could compromise on this quotation and say, the relationship between a teacher and a student should only be finalized after careful checking, as we do with gold, as we do with gold. Okay, so a hundred bucks more, Ellie, for this young man.

Mom, I don't usually give him that much money. He's just on an important subject today. Okay, I think this quotation from the Kangyur is the best one for you to put in your footnote, okay?

And I had a lot of fun trying to find all these, okay? Here we go. Let's read this one, Adam, because this is the one I want you to use in your footnote, okay?

And because why? Because this one comes from the Kangyur. This is the...

In fact, this is a very famous sutra called the Sutra on the Nirvana of the Buddha, okay? The Final Nirvana of the Buddha, okay? Go ahead.

[Speaker 2]
SONG THER NA SER YANG RTAG PAR YANG RNAM PAR GSUNGS KYI MGO LAS RTAG NA RTAG NA YANG RTAG RTAG NA YANG RTAG PAR YIN NA YIN NAM MA YIN PA RTOGS SO MDI DAG TE SEPA THANG THUNG MA THANG THAR BA'I GONG NYID THAR BA'O THAR BA'I GONG NYID THAR BA'O Yeah, go slow and translate this for zero dollars.

[Speaker 1]
By the way- For example, in the city? I mean, Thangsong? No, no, Thangsong means city, city.

Yeah, city. Yeah, he's addressing us as a Hindu saint. Yeah, totally.

Yeah, oh, Mr. Saint. For example? Gold and...

When you want to find out if gold is pure. This is YANG RTAG. You look at the aspects, at three aspects.

Good. I'll give you a clue.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, hold on.

[Speaker 1]
I'll give you a clue. Okay, go ahead. It's ore, right?

Say again?

[Speaker 2]
It's knob?

[Speaker 1]
Good, yeah. If you want to- Yeah. Yeah, so it's not RTOGS and- No, RTOGS means then you will realize whether it's YANG RTAG PA or MA YIN PA.

Uh-huh. If you check with these three tests- Whether, yeah, whether it's real or not.

[Speaker 2]
I mean, RTOGS means- Good, yeah, yeah. Like, and then MA YIN PA just by itself, I see.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you'll be able to tell- You'll be able to tell whether it's real or not, okay? Yeah. Good.

[Speaker 2]
I was getting confused because I was trying to connect the element there on NAM to the other side by YANG RTAG PA.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, now, wrap it up. RGYI RTAG STE.

[Speaker 2]
RGYI RTAG STE, SREG PA DANG, SDUG BSNGAL DANG, LTAR BA'I KHO NAS BTAG PA'O.

[Speaker 1]
By the way, SDUG BSNGAL means to hit something with a hammer, and it's replacing CHOD PA. Yeah, yeah, totally get hit with a stick too, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It means to hammer it. Yeah, totally. So, you have to examine it this way by burning, tapping or hitting, and filing.

Good, yeah, that's how you check gold. Now, each one of these three relates to one of the three kinds of SEMA, okay? Each one of these three relates to a different kind of SEMA.

Anybody remember the correlations? Cutting, burning, and filing. Do you remember anybody?

[Speaker 3]
Oh, that's right. I thought your quotes were going to show us that.

[Speaker 1]
I thought so too. I should have put it here. Okay, I don't think I did.

I used it in DCI a lot. I used this thing in DCI a lot, and I can't remember myself. I don't want to say it wrong, okay?

Burning is direct perception, cutting is deductive, and filing is authoritative. Are you sure? Yeah, yeah.

Really?

[Speaker 3]
Cutting isn't direct?

[Speaker 1]
Cutting is not direct. Which one's direct? I'd say burning, melting.

Oh, okay. So, when your teacher teaches you something, you have to have put three tests on it. Does it coincide with your own personal experience in your life?

Does it fit what you yourself have experienced in your life? Secondly, does it make sense logically? Thirdly, does it follow the wise advice of other people?

If your teacher is suddenly saying it's okay to commit adultery with somebody's wife, is that what all the otherwise people in other religions say, for example? You have to check that also, okay? Okay, yay.

Please read this one, Adam.

[Speaker 2]
,ZHES KYI DUN KYANG MTSAN NAS BDAG DGOS BAR SONGS PA'I PHYIR THANG, Yeah, and you got to appreciate the irony here.

[Speaker 1]
That guy is claiming that since there is a separate category of the classical science of logic, therefore, the fifth classical science of Buddhism doesn't belong, logic doesn't belong in the study of Buddhism and our author is saying Buddhist logic belongs in the study of Buddhism, okay? And we showed you that Lord Buddha himself used many of the standard forms of logic to prove things. Okay, not only that, his own...

[Speaker 2]
This quotation, ZHES KYI DUN.

[Speaker 1]
His own teachings are something you've got to use logic on. He said, use logic when you're trying to prove stuff for other people, but ultimately, you should also use it on my body. Yeah, the words of Lord Buddha, yeah.

On me, the ka, ka, here, ka. The word, capital W, capital W, the word, okay? Listen, if you have to use logic according to Buddhism, even on the words of the Buddha, then don't go telling me that these seven books on logic don't belong in the category of the inner science of Buddhism, okay?

Come on, come on, okay? And by the way, this is one of the most beautiful things about Adam's text, is that Thaydubje spends, I don't know, 20 pages trying to prove why logic is useful, okay? Which is beautiful, okay?

He's not done yet, okay? He's not done yet. Here he goes again.

[Speaker 2]
,RJES SUM BYAMS PA'I KYANG, ,CHOS SANG RIG PA'I NAM CHE SANG PA CHEN, ,LTA LTOS DGOS KYI BAR CHE CHE PANG NAS, ,CHES SUM ZHING, Yeah, who's Jampa? Lord Maitreya.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, how do you get to not see him in this life? By criticizing the Mahayana? Yeah, okay.

Yeah, he said, look, if you want to know what makes, if you want to decide whether a scriptural teaching is a good one, then you better use, you better che-pa it with rigpa.

[Speaker 2]
And so this, this, this song, this song here?

[Speaker 1]
Forget Sampa right now, okay? If you want to decide whether a teaching is sang, correct? Then che-pa it with rigpa.

Yeah, examine it with logic, yeah, check it with logic. Yeah, and a person who thinks this way, a person who doesn't accept scripture until it makes sense, until it makes sense, okay? People who think like that, Sampa Chen, they will never get apartheid from a do.

They'll never get an obstacle from a demon. You broke up, you had a do. You'll never get an obstacle from a demon.

You're breaking up on me. You'll never get an obstacle from a demon. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They will never get trouble in their personal practice, okay? They will, I mean, to put it into normal language. Is this, this, this?

They will never have problems with their Buddhist practice. You're breaking up on me. Must be those Colorado airwaves.

We're over time, Geshe-la. You're still here.

[Speaker 3]
Oh, hey, again.

[Speaker 1]
Say it again, I lost it. We're over. Can you hear me?

Now I can hear you. Talk slow, I think. It's too fast for Colorado electricity.

So what was it you were asking again? Sorry. Oh, I'm just saying in present day English, we would say you will not have problems with your spiritual practice if you stick to what makes sense.

If you stick to what makes sense. If you stick to what makes sense. Yeah, okay, that's all.

That's my trail, okay.

[Speaker 2]
You know, I was just wondering that, that the Chö song, that song is the same one from Pure?

[Speaker 1]
Is that to make sure that you're Pure? Which means, when deciding whether a Chö song.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, okay.

[Speaker 1]
And by the way, here's the original quotation, all right? Yeah, this is the original quotation. It's found in a Dode Gyan, which is a Sangha's own work, which is Maitreya's own work.

It's one of the five books of Maitreya, okay? The Sutralankara, right? The ornament of the Sutralankara, okay?

We're over time. I don't know if you guys can hear me. My internet's kind of bad.

Yeah, yeah. That's it. We're at a good place to stop, actually.

[Speaker 3]
If you want to keep going, you just pretend you still can't hear him.

[Speaker 1]
What'd you say? What'd you say? Okay, what's today?

The 18th or the 17th? 18th. Okay, yay, Adam.

Sexy book. What's exciting, you guys, is that all these books are tied together. We just had a description.

Well, we just had a long story about Maitreya telling us how to avoid problems with Vasubandhu. And now we got Maitreya telling us, again, how to avoid problems, okay? Let's do a mandala, Adam.

[Speaker 2]
SA SHES BU RGYUD ZHUGS SHING MED TOGS GRANGS RIGS RANG ZHIG MED DE YIN PA'I THAM YID SHING RGYUR GZHIG MI BRTEN DGOS RGYUR GANG NANG DA SHING LA'I DUG PA'I ZHOG YIDAM RGYUR RANG NANG PA'I DUG PA'I DGE BA DE YI GYUR BO KHOI TSUL NAM YOD SHING TSUL TSOG SHING TSUL NAM YOD SHING THAM PA KUN PA'I DUG PA'I ZHOG By the way, Adam, I'll give you a homework.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, please. Find a quotation, which I should have done and I didn't do, which relates the burning, cutting, and filing to NGON GSUM TSE MA, RJES PAG TSE MA, and what's the third one? Scriptural authority, right?

SNGON GYI TSE MA Yeah, okay. And you can just search file, B-R-D-A-R, near NGON GSUM, M-N-G-O-N-S-U-M, and you'll find it. Find it somewhere in the Sumbam by a reliable author.

It's like Tsongkhapa or, I don't know, somebody like that. Let's put a footnote in that ties down, nails down that correlation between the three, okay? Okay.

All right, yay. I'll see you guys.