Медитации на пустоту: объяснение шагов к пониманию того, что ничто не является самим собой, занятие 9

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I have a present for you guys.

[Speaker 2]
This is my present.

[Speaker 1]
It's Friday, right? I'm sorry Earl's not here today.

[Speaker 2]
Is he around? He's gone already? Oh, that's too bad.

[Speaker 1]
Because you want to tell him it's going to happen this morning? I don't know.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, pretty nice.

[Speaker 1]
You know, it'd be interesting to teach this in the Bahamas. Because it's... If you look online, or you go to a modern Sankhya school presentation, it's quite...

This is quite more rich. And more full. In my opinion.

You know, I think it'd be cool to teach it at the Bahamas or something. Maybe one of you guys can do that. So, what happened was...

Let's do a mandala first, I guess. Miss Udpala. DRO LA PHEN CHIR SANG NGE DU PAR SHOK CHOD RANG TSUL GYI CHOG NANG LA CHANG CHUG PAR DU DAG NI RGYAB SU CHI DAG GIS CHUNG YIN GYI PAS SU NANG GI DRO LA PHEN CHIR SANG NGE DU PAR SHOK CHOD RANG TSUL GYI CHOG NANG LA CHANG CHUG PAR DU DAG NI RGYAB SU CHI DAG GIS CHUNG YIN GYI PAS SU NANG GI DRO LA PHEN CHIR SANG NGE DU PAR SHOK OM BAM HUNG Okay, so we were in...

Where is that? That's you. Who is this?

What's your text called, Udpala? Oh yeah, this is your text.

[Speaker 2]
So... Are we starting?

[Speaker 1]
Yes.

[Speaker 2]
I thought we were doing expostulation.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, I decided to just go ahead, because I don't have anything to expostulate about. I mean, I could make up something on the spot. Well, let's just use the time.

I can't think of anything. Well, yeah, because this is going to take a long time.

[Speaker 2]
Sorry, I wasn't ready.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, take your time.

[Speaker 2]
Thanks for the first class yesterday.

[Speaker 1]
The who class? I felt sort of bad about awards class. I'm going to work harder on his text.

I'm going to work harder on your text. Next time I'll have it figured out. It was...

I don't know. I was irritated about that text. But I'll crack it.

It's fun to crack a text. You ready? Okay.

So, Udpala's text was talking about... there must be... people must think there's a self separate from their body and mind, because people think, I wish I could die and get a better body.

You know, like if you get cancer or something. Poha, right? They want to...

I mean, Buddhists want to... There's Buddhists who say you can switch to another body or something like that. So, that means you must think there's some kind of meat.

You got this face. It must be pretty bad.

[Speaker 2]
Is it coffee? It's good, but it's chocolate. You don't like chocolate?

You want to switch?

[Speaker 1]
I don't mind. I like chocolate. I like chocolate.

So, you switch to a better one.

[Speaker 2]
I like chocolate.

[Speaker 1]
You take this one. No, I want you to have this one. Anyway, and then it had a verse to support that.

But the verse is weird. And I said I had to go figure out what the heck it's about. And it's from Pramanavartaka, Dharmakirti.

But it's Sankhya. It's about the Sankhyas. And I'm sure it relates to his point sooner or later.

But I was getting frustrated about his Sankhyas. Because I was frustrated about his Mainomi. So, I was just frustrated.

And I thought, well, let's go do a nice Sankhya. Let's figure out Sankhya. Because I also taught in the Sankhya school for ten years in the Bahamas.

Sankhya. It's a Hindu school. It's a Hindu school called Sankhya.

And they were big competitors. They were big competitors with the Buddhists 2,000 years ago. So, I thought, you can't understand your verse without Sankhya.

We're about to hit Sankhya in his text. It's very confusing. I like your shirt, Adam.

But I thought, let's just crack it. Learn Sankhya. And I dare say, the explanation of Tsongkhapa and his friends is more clear than what I heard in the Bahamas.

So, I think it'd be fun to go there someday and teach it. Maybe you can go. Maybe Earl can sign it up.

I don't know. You could say Sankhya from a Buddhist point of view. From ancient Buddhist texts.

And the result would be that they would understand their own school. You see? But you don't have to say that.

Because they have a very confusing presentation. And I love the people there. They are the best group of celibates in North America, I think.

They're pretty cool people. Anyway, here we go. So, where was I?

Yeah, okay, here. So, here's the context. And I used a couple of texts.

Because different people have different explanations. And they all support each other. You learn more by studying two or three different guys.

So, let's do Sankhya Party today. And it may stretch into your time or something like that. We'll see.

Okay, NYID PA LA GNYIS BDAG DANG RANG BZHIN GYI GRUB PA BDAG RANG BZHIN GYI GRUB PA RGAGS PA DANG BDAG GYI BA RANG BZHIN GYI GRUB PA RGAGS PO This relates to Sugeng's text. Who can tell me why? Start with RGAGS PA.

Start with RGAGS PA. Yeah, denying a RGAGS, which could be RANG BZHIN GYI GRUB PA. Exists of its own accord or through its own nature.

I mean, yeah, I don't mind if you find some easier way, some prettier way to say it, smoother way to say it, that could exist in and of itself, or something like that. That's not bad. Sure, you want me to send it to somebody?

Like, I could send it to... Okay. To Nick.

Thank you.

[Speaker 2]
I think it's in there.

[Speaker 1]
Is it in here?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. By the way, we just got health insurance for the Tibetans. They've been working for a long time.

Okay. Next, we're going to do pension. Okay, so it's coming to Ben and it will go to the rest of you guys, right?

Okay. Sorry, did I do Ben or Nick? I got it.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, Nick.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Okay, so this is Je Tsongkapa, by the way, commenting on... This is Gompa Rabsel, so it's Je Tsongkapa's commentary to...

Yeah, Entering the Middle Way by... Master Chandrakirti. Yeah, Master Chandrakirti.

Sooner or later I have to translate this anyway. I haven't... I'm translating the whole book.

It's been like five years. Because I do it only in airports waiting for the luggage. That's the only time I have.

DAG RANG BZHIN GYI BDUG PA DGAG PA Yeah. Refuting, right? That the self could exist through some nature of its own.

I like to... By the way, when I talk about DGAG BYANGS, I like to put language in there which is possible, rather than is. You see?

So, I would like to translate it, some self which could have existed on its own, or something like that. And then, when I don't see that in a translation, I'm suspicious that the translator doesn't really know what they're talking about. Because these are all things that can't exist.

And they don't seem that sensitive to that. You see? So, I think it's good to put in some kind of language.

What do you call the optative? Which could have existed on its own. Or which might have existed on its own.

Because it can't. You see? So, if you say, which exists on its own, it already throws into question whether the translator understands what they're talking about.

Is it too cold? Pretty cold. You got that.

Yeah, excuse me?

[Speaker 2]
The reference folder, we got that.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, good. So, he's going to deny that a self, could exist by nature. Or that the self could exist by nature.

And then he's going to deny that the dakkyuwa. Dakkyuwa? Oh, the mind.

The self.

[Speaker 2]
The self.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, nice. You're still kissable, but you're a little far away. Okay, dakkyuwa.

I had Veronica there yesterday, and I said, I was going to kiss everybody in the house. Uh-oh.

[Speaker 2]
Dakkyuwa.

[Speaker 1]
It's like naiwa. Like the mind. This is the me, and this is the mind.

So, he's going to deny that me could exist by nature. And then he's going to, by some nature of its own. And then he's going to deny that the mind can exist by some nature.

So, that's the context in which the Sankhya school comes. Okay, that's why. And I think that point isn't made very often.

Why are we talking about Sankhyas at all? And the original reference to Sankhyas is by Master Chandrakirti. And his explanation is maybe one of the best.

So, we're going to go there also. We're going to kick ass on the Sankhya because I was so embarrassed by not doing the mind-only very well.

[Speaker 2]
You said it in the Garja too, in Rishi?

[Speaker 1]
It could be, I don't know.

[Speaker 2]
It's a clay model.

[Speaker 1]
It could be. It could be that. Okay.

Dambaladruk. So, we're going to deny a self, right, that could exist through some nature of its own, in six different categories, six different sections. GZHAN DE LTA BU'I PHUNG PO LAS NGO THA DE PA'I BDAG SKABS We're going to deny a self which could have been of some basic separate nature than the body and mind.

And that self, BDAG, is something that's labeled or made up by GZHAN DE non-Buddhist schools, other groups. So, the other groups fantasized a self which could be unrelated to the body and mind, which means soul, like a Christian soul that could exist without any connection to body and mind. So, that's the first job, is to treat the BDAG, the self nature that other schools talk about.

And that's...well, we'll get there. And then there's... he's going to fight against, right?

He's going to deny the beliefs of RANG DE.

[Speaker 2]
Our school.

[Speaker 1]
Good, yeah. Now, we had RANG DE in two contexts. Just to remind you.

When there's already been a GZHAN DE in other schools, then RANG DE clearly means Buddhist. But sometimes RANG DE can mean the school... Great.

He's just too much. Don't tell Annie, okay? We're going to refute.

Our own schools who believe that the self is the body and mind itself. The body and mind itself. The five parts, the five heaps are the self.

That's too much. They went too far. So, the non-Buddhist schools say it's not related to the body and mind at all.

It's independent of body and mind. And then there's some of our schools who say it is the body and mind. That's me.

Rather than... Well, we're getting to it right now. BDE NYID KYI LHAG MA'I CHOG BSTAN DANG BRTAN PA SOGS GSUM GANG Then there's a denial of three other positions which are left over after you treat those two.

LHAG MA What's two LHAG? Leftover soup. What's LHAG BSAM RNAM DAG?

High responsibility. Ultra responsibility. High responsibility.

So LHAG means more. Like leftover pizza or something. So, BDE NYID After you treated those two wrong beliefs, one, that the soul, the self is not related to your body and mind by non-Buddhist schools.

And then Buddhist schools will say the soul is the body and mind, that the self is the body. Then what's left over? What other weird beliefs are there?

There's three. Three other ones I'm going to deal with which are left over. For example, the idea of a basis and something resting on that basis.

What that is, we don't know. It could be that the basis is the five heaps. Probably.

Something like that. Now that gets close to a Prasangika view. DE NYID DANG GZHAN NYID DU MED PA'I GANG ZAG RDZAS YOD RGAGS This was a weird wording and I had to go look it up.

Deny a substantial person. It gets into Utpala's language. Deny a person who could be substantial, which is neither that thing or the lack of that thing.

Which isn't... I'm sorry, I should say this. The person who isn't present either in that or in that.

Either in this or that. Neither this or that school. Neither this or that school.

And it means neither in the body and mind or separate from the body and mind. And they say GZHAN NYID DU MED PA'I.

[Speaker 2]
GZHAN NYID DU MED PA'I Beyond expression.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, beyond words. This is some other school. They say nobody can say it's too deep.

It's beyond words. You can't say it. BDAG RTEN NAS BDAG PA TZAM DU BSHAGS PA PAS RANG BYAS PAR BSHAD BDAG, the self, is just labeled through dependence.

Which sounds like Sugam. No, there's no Gok here. There's a Shed.

An explanation of why the self is just something labeled by the image which comes out of your karmic seed. And then he's going to use an example. Along with an example.

BAS DANG PHYIR PA BAS DANG PHYIR PA means he's going to use an example. For example, mirrors are popular for that kind of example. In the five reasons, the five proofs, mirrors are very popular.

For THUN PA'I YAM DANG, what's THUN PA'I YAM DANG? I can have a chocolate drink while I wait for you.

[Speaker 2]
Ultimate soup.

[Speaker 1]
It's the fourth element of every syllogism. But it's not just BAS, it's THUN PA'I YAM DANG. THUN PA'I means something which does possess one and two.

I'm sorry, you could say three and two. Like if I say, take this drink, it's chocolate because it was made from a chocolate bean or something like that. Then a THUN PA'I YAM DANG is a chocolate milk.

It's both chocolate and it's made from a chocolate bean. It incorporates the two elements I'm talking about. One of which you accept already, and one which you don't accept already.

It just means a good example for what you're trying to prove. But it's called a harmony example. THUN PA'I YAM DANG The technical logic term is THUN PA'I YAM DANG.

So he's going to give THUN PA'I YAM DANG. DE DAG ZHAG PA LA THANG ZIN GYI RTOG PA SPANG LA BA'I YON TAN BSTAN PO'O A demonstration. Don't always say teaching.

A demonstration of why, if that's the way you posit a self, you can, I'm sorry my thing's not working. You can easily, LA BA, LA BA, you can easily give up the wrong idea which holds to the two extremes. THAR TA If you do it that way, what?

Labeling. Label number five. If you do it that way, then it'll be easy to give up...

This is not working. The wrong idea. It's moving on my screen, it's not moving on the TV.

Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Maybe he should have some coffee. Okay, got it. YON TAN means it's a good quality of that viewpoint.

Number five. If you explain that the self is something which is labeled, then that has the YON TAN, that has the advantage that it's easy to get rid of extreme view. If you understand the self that way.

Got it? You okay? Stanley's looking.

You need some coffee? Okay, well, it hasn't taken effect yet.

[Speaker 2]
Number three. Number three?

[Speaker 1]
Or number four?

[Speaker 2]
Oh yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I would present the MEPA this way. Yeah, it's a little radical, right? It says refusing a substantial person, it's because, really, because they don't exist either in that or in the other.

That's technically what it says. You have to find a smoother English. But that's your job every day.

DANG PO LA NYID CHOG SNGA MA BYAS PA NANG LUGS TE RGA PO The first one, number one, dealing with the wrong idea of non-Buddhist schools who say there's a soul which is not connected to the body and mind. First, CHOG SNGA MA BYAS PA is a standard logic term. It means, I will describe their position to you.

I will state, BYAS PA. SNGA MA means the previous one. CHOG means position or side.

I will explain to you the other side. I'll give you the other side's view. So first he's going to explain what they believe, and then he's going to RGA SPA.

Yeah, and then he'll prove why it's wrong. But first, he'll give them a chance to talk for themselves. Tell me what this weird Sankhya view is.

Can you describe it to me? And his description of the school he doesn't believe in, similar to Master Vasubandhu presenting the Abhidharmakosha, is masterful. He does a better job of explaining Sankhya than I've ever heard of Sankhya.

Which I think would make it very interesting to teach in a Sankhya school, because they don't really know what they're talking about, to be honest. DANG PO NI, JIG RTZO LA LTA BA'I DMIGS PA BDAG TE CI ZHIG BYAS DE NYID MI SHES PA'I BRTAN ZHIG BYAS NA This is actually a paraphrase of Chandrakirti. We'll do Chandrakirti.

We're also going to do somebody named Gelong Sherab Wangpo, who lived about 80 years after Tsongkapa. He's a good commentator of Gomadabsel. So we're doing Gomadabsel, we're doing Chandrakirti, and we're doing Gelong Sherab Wangpo.

DANG PO NI, JIG RTZO LA LTA BA'I DMIGS PA BDAG TE CI ZHIG BYAS This is cool. It relates to Sugeng's text. It says, okay, JIG RTZO LA LTA BA, which in your book is called JIG RTZA, it's shortened to JIG RTZA.

This is the full form, JIG RTZO LA LTA BA, the view of the perishable assembly. Meaning, the view of the body and mind, which will die, self. Or sometimes the JIG is explained as...

[Speaker 2]
The world being that will destroy you.

[Speaker 1]
No, that's the first one. What's destroyed when you see it? Yeah, the view is destroyed.

So the JIG is either modifying self, or the JIG is modifying the LTA BA. The assembly, the group of parts, which will be destroyed, or the idea about the parts, which will be destroyed. The idea will be destroyed.

LTA BA Don't say LTA BA. Okay, MIG PA, BDAG TE, CI ZHIG BYAS It all starts out like this. Chandrakirti has been talking about the first link.

He says all the trouble in your world, all the suffering you ever had, was because you were misunderstanding... Be careful. Me and mine.

You're just too far away. All the trouble in your life has come because of the first link. You've been misunderstanding me and mine.

And then somebody says, well, what is that misunderstanding focused at? What does that misunderstanding think is there that's not there? What's the NGA and the NGA YI BA?

What's the me and the mind that it thinks is there? And then there's a long... And then they say, well, okay, JIG RTZA LTA LTA BA'I MIG PA The one that it looks at, the self.

The self that the view, the perishable view looks at, destruction view looks at. CI ZHIG BYAS What's it like? CI ZHIG BYAS DE NYID MI SHES PAS I don't understand.

That's a good way to start. And that's a direct... He's taking a line out of Chandrakirti.

Somebody else comes to Chandrakirti and says, I don't get this Sankhya view. What do they think is this self? And DON ZHIG This is the imperative.

It's not the past tense of destroyed. So what's it mean? DON ZHIG Teach me what it is.

[Speaker 2]
Yes. DON ZHIG No, if you say.

[Speaker 1]
If you come to me and say, I don't understand what the first link is focusing at. What kind of self, what kind of me does the first link think it sees? Can you explain it to me?

Please. If you ask me, well, DI LA GNYIS I'll give you two versions. As far as GZHAN BDA'I.

Yeah, as far as other schools. Non-Buddhist schools, I'll give you two versions.

[Speaker 2]
Geshe-la, did they name the Sankhyas? Oh, here we go, right here.

[Speaker 1]
Well, I'm going to give it here. DRANG CHEN GYI LUGS SPYOD PA I will express the position of the Sankhya. Yeah.

DRANG means numbers. Which is Sankhya. Short A.

Sankhya. Numberist is Sankhya. Strengthen the vowel.

You strengthen the vowel. Short vowel. Uh.

Sounds good. Uh. Long vowel.

Ah. So Sankhyas study Sankhyas.

[Speaker 2]
Numerists study numbers.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, okay. And what's a Serkhyas?

[Speaker 2]
Serkhyas. They're...

[Speaker 1]
Kapilas follow Kapila. Kapila. They're Kapila.

Anyway, okay. Sankhyas follow Sankhya. They count Sankhyas.

Why? They say all things divide into 25. They're big on 25.

They got this thing about 25 important things in the universe. So they're called... They count 25.

Okay, got it. And then there's the Chedarpa which is not Chedarmawa. So you will make that mistake and you will embarrass yourself someday.

Chedarmawa is Vaibhashika. It's the lowest Buddhist school. The Abhidharma and the Vinaya.

Chedarpa is a Hindu school called Vaisheshika. Vaisheshika. No, the first sha, sha.

Sha, sha. Vaisheshika.

[Speaker 2]
Vaisheshika.

[Speaker 1]
Which is a Buddhist school? This is a... This is a retroflex.

The percentage sign is a retroflex. I remember choosing these symbols at midnight and I was leaving the next morning. I was like, oh what the hell.

Unless it's a percentage sign. Because it has a dot. And a dot goes under the S.

Just say sha, sha, sha, sha.

[Speaker 2]
Sha, sha, sha. Sha, sha, sha.

[Speaker 1]
Oh sorry. And then turn your tongue back. Retroflex.

Bend it back.

[Speaker 2]
Sha. Sha.

[Speaker 1]
So before an I, a normal sha changes to retroflex. Okay. And then he says, etc.

Plus other people. Plus other people. So first I'll give you the Sankhyas.

Because that was very strong because of the influence of a great scholar of the Sankhyas called... No.

[Speaker 2]
What's that dude's name?

[Speaker 1]
Shankara. Shankaracharya.

[Speaker 2]
He's not a Sankhya.

[Speaker 1]
Did I make a bubu? Oh, maybe I made a mistake. Okay, here we go.

Damboni. I want to skip now to Chandrakirti. You can understand Tsongkapa better if you go to Chandrakirti.

You can understand Chandrakirti better if you go to Gelong Shera Buampo. Okay, so I'm going to start with Gelong Shera Buampo. A hundred years after Tsongkapa, basically.

[Speaker 2]
I'm sorry, did you give us a rough translation for Vaisheshika? Vaisheshika.

[Speaker 1]
I forget what I call them, but I think it's something like detailers. And then in the English you have to be careful between detailist and detailer. Okay.

Detailer.

[Speaker 2]
That's my suggestion. Detailist is like those who point the details and this is just the detailing.

[Speaker 1]
Well, that's a long story.

[Speaker 2]
How about trivial? How about what? Trivial items.

[Speaker 1]
Well, I don't know why they're called detailers. We'd have to look it up. Anyway, I thought we'd go to Gelong Shera Buampo first, who wrote a commentary to Tsongkapa's explanation.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
We're going to find it in your thing. I don't know a lot about the Hindu school of study of truth. He's, you know...

Okay, sumpa jikten mihyo sherpa la. So, I'm going to an easier explanation by Gelong Shera Buampo, so you can understand Tsongkapa. And I might go from Gelong Shera Buampo directly to Chandrakirti, and then back to Tsongkapa.

Because Chandrakirti's is pretty cool. I mean, it's actually very cool. sumpa jikten mihyo sherpa la.

Can you explain to me the object which is focused upon by jikta? Make number one. Destruction view.

Destruction view. What does it think it sees? What does it think it sees?

sumpa jikten mihyo kyi nga de jikta yin she na. Oh, well, what is the I? What is the me that that destructible view is focused on?

As opposed to the? Naiva. Yeah, the mind.

So, this is Gelong Shera Buampo's simplification of Je Tsongkapa, which is a rephrase of Chandrakirti. So, we're going to do all three. Because he can't really understand it without all three.

di la shen gyi dupa. On this subject, di la, I'll give you shen gyi dupa, what other people think, and then I'll give you rang luk. Our side, what we think.

Rang luk always means our side. dangpo shen de du tsul ni. He's very simple, right?

He repeats. Here's the first one, which is what other people believe. He's kind of our level.

sapo dak ngu chepo minpay dak. Say sapo. dak ngu chepo minpay dak che so sungpa tar I'm going to give...

He quotes a line from somebody. I don't know who it is. I didn't go that far.

Which is... He's discussing sapo dak ngu chepo minpay dak. sapo means it is the eater.

We had it in Kamalashila. It's the consumer. He's the consumer.

[Speaker 2]
He's the consumer.

[Speaker 1]
No... It's like he's the experiencer of the results of karma. sapo, he's the consumer.

Okay, the eater. Literally eater. And he's a dakpay ngukpo.

[Speaker 2]
He's a...oh, he's a computed object.

[Speaker 1]
Come on. RT. He's a permanent thing.

Oh. Unchanging.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, okay, good. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
He's a thing which does something that never changes. He's a thing which does something and never changes. Which is a contradiction of terms in Buddhism.

You can't do anything without changing. When you do something, you have to move. When you move, you change.

But it's like God and the Christian idea. He made the world, but he's never changed. Something like that.

Well, they say eternal. Yeah, okay. Anyway, it's that similar idea.

Someone who... The Christians would say unchanging in the sense of never started, but still does things. dakmo chepo min But he's not the creator.

chepo min, mayin In the sense of having created the... what we call the nam gyur, which are the expressions of the universe. He has not created the expressions.

The different expressions. They call expressions in Sankhya school. Vikara.

Vikara. We'll get there. No.

Some of the takpas are vikara and some of them aren't. That's confusing and... I studied it last night really long and I'm fresh on it and I'll forget it tomorrow.

Okay, minpay dak. That's a self. That's a...

Excuse me? What? Oh, because I read three other commentaries.

Okay. The self, which is not the creator, which is an unchanging, functioning thing, which consumes. And there's others.

There's more to the list. This is dot, dot, dot. che sok sumpa tar So, following this description of the Sankhya beliefs, here's the Sankhya's position.

Sankhya nare. The Sankhya's say... Here's what the Sankhya's say.

she ja la nyi shi tsa nga All she ja's. So, instead of using the word for tattva, in Buddhism, they will often use the word she ja. Existing things.

All existing things from Adam's text. All existing things can be counted into twenty-five. Nyi shi tsa nga is the full form of twenty-five in Tibetan.

You can also say nyer nga using the numberizer for the twenties. Okay, twenty-five. Either way.

Nyer nga is more common. Nyi shi tsa nga is the full form of the number twenty-five. Nge means...

What does nge mean with the number I told you a couple times? Yeah, twenty-five. No more, no less.

Exactly twenty-five. r... she ser Uh-uh.

They claim, okay? It's a put-down. Ser.

They... They say. Okay.

It's a claim. They claim. So you should translate it as they claim.

Okay. de tar yang de shung le Let's quote their own book. Okay.

I don't know what the book is. You can maybe find it somewhere. Let's quote their own text.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Here's their text. Yeah, I didn't take the time. It's quoted a couple times.

I believe the earliest quotation I found was Chandrakirti. His auto-commentary. tsawa rang shin So it means now.

rang shin You maybe know the word in Hinduism. rang shin No, the opposite. prakirti prakirti Please don't say kriti.

Okay, and all of them say kriti. They don't know what the hell they're doing. Okay, prakirti.

prakirti Not prakirti. Because that's a long A and that would mean he's not the maker. Okay.

The very much not maker. prakirti Okay, so this is a famous, famous thing. You go to a Hindu ashram, everybody's talking about prakirti.

Prakirti means nature, capital N. You know. Nature.

You know, and it kind of means nature in the sense of the guy, the embodiment of nature. The big guy who made the world or something like that. Mother nature.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, I like that. That's a good way.

[Speaker 1]
So tsawa rang shin means the root of all things. The most basic nature. So that's just like saying mother nature.

The tsawa here is kind of like saying mother nature. The one which gave birth to all things. Root nature.

Now, their use of language is weird. Just be aware and don't freak out. Nature made person and person met happiness.

They talk like that. The real Sankhyas. Well, Sankhyas in the time of Kshankirti.

Tsawa rang shin. Mother nature is not a nam gyur. Nam gyur is an ancient synonym for dubu.

[Speaker 2]
Result.

[Speaker 1]
And it means an expression. You see what I mean? The blouse that Jigme chose today is an expression of her taste.

No, I like it. It's pretty. It's something I would choose.

But it means, if you think about it, it means it's a result of her taste. You see what I mean? An expression of her taste comes after her taste.

Her taste created the expression today. Her taste decided, and then the result is that she's wearing this blouse. So we call it expression.

I believe it's vikara. I made a list of all the Sanskrit words. Yeah.

I did it in your text. Where is your text? Yeah, here it is.

Here's the... Look at you.

[Speaker 2]
You're hired.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, here they are. Here's the twenty-five in your text. And I put all the names of them.

Because I was so embarrassed by the Minoni yesterday that I thought I'd have to prove myself.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
No, but I'm going to have to. I've still got to crack his goddamn text.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. So, tsawa'i rangshin parkirti is a vikara. Oh, sorry, he's not.

Now, that's a contradiction in Buddhism. He's a cause, but he's not a result. He's the cause of all things, but nobody made him.

Sound familiar? This is Christian belief. Yeah, Big Bang also.

Yeah, Big Bang. Causing, but not caused. Which in Buddhism is impossible.

And just that much proves in Buddhism that things have no beginning. Just saying that. Nothing can be a cause without being a result.

Namgyur Mayen, he's not. Chempo sok. Chempo means mahat.

Mahat in Sankhya, it's big with a capital B. The Big. And it's a synonym in Sankhya for buddhi.

They say intellect, yeah. Lo, lo in Tibetan. So lo and chempo are synonyms in the Sankhya system for the second of the twenty-five things.

You can say buddhi or you can say mahat. And that in itself is confusing already. So chempo is...

mahat or buddhi is one of a group of seven of the twenty-five. Seven of the twenty-five hang together.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
And they are both... And I got this from another commentary. You're supposed to put a dung in between here.

They are both rangshin and namgyur. They are part of prakirti and they're also vikara. They are results, but they are still part of nature, capital N.

Okay. So they are both rangshin, prakirti, and vikara. So we got...

First we got prakirti who's not vikara, who's not a result, right? Only a cause. And then we got seven guys, the next seven.

Now we're covered the first eight of the twenty-five. First one is mama, mother nature. The next seven are his expressions.

So they're part of prakirti and they're also expressions, results. Okay. Then we got sixteen which are only expressions.

Okay, the third line. chu du po ni The next sixteen are namgyurs. They are expressions, meaning results of prakirti.

Okay. So how many we got now?

[Speaker 2]
We got twenty-four. So he's saying mahat is prakirti and an expression, but then the sixteen are expressions but not necessarily prakirti.

[Speaker 1]
They're expressions of... yeah, we'll get there. So this verse from the Sankhyas is categorizing them into groups by are they namgyurs or not?

And are they prakirti or not? Okay, got it? So these are just namgyurs.

They are results. Sixteen, the next sixteen. We'll get there.

We'll talk about them. Then gyur bu, which is purusha. Person, capital P.

[Speaker 2]
Gyur bu.

[Speaker 1]
Purusha. So Sankhyas got two big things. Nature and person.

Capital N, capital P. Big P. Big P, person.

They call purusha. So their two main forces in the universe are prakirti and purusha. And their relationship, and that's the cool thing about this presentation.

They describe liberation according to the Sankhyas, which is tied up with the relationship between nature and person. And if that relationship works out smoothly, you are liberated. And if there's a tension, you are not liberated.

But how that works, it's the cool thing. And it's kind of weird. And I never heard that in the Bahamas.

I like it. It's kind of the, why the hell are you talking about nature and person? Because something has to be fixed between them for you to get to nirvana.

Right now there's something going wrong between them. Roughly.

[Speaker 2]
So they know what they're after, but they don't know how to do it.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and they also think the dog is causing some kind of trouble. You see, that's why we're talking about them. They also think there's some kind of trouble going on with dog, with person.

Got it? Yeah, because that's why they came in Chandrakirti. That's why they appeared, because we're on the subject of what does the jikta look at?

So don't forget the context. And I never got context when I was at the Bahamas. Like, this is cool.

There's a problem with this dog. Even the non-Buddhists say that. And they say you can get liberation if you figure out the problem.

If you solve the problem. Okay, cool? You okay?

[Speaker 2]
It's really a problem with our zin.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. A belief in this non-existence. Okay, here we go.

,GZHAN ZHES PA LTAR Any questions? Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. ,SKYE BU RANG BZHIN MA YIN Purusha is not Prakriti.

Yeah, Purusha is not Prakriti. And it's also not NAM GYUR. And half the text had the wrong spelling here and made it the opposite.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
Half the text are wrong. It drove me nuts. It cost me dinner.

[Speaker 2]
Did you find a scan and look at it?

[Speaker 1]
No, I finally found a commentary that explained why it's MIN. Okay? And it frustrated the hell out of me.

But it makes sense because you got here now all the possibilities. It's MU SHI MU GSUM actually. Okay?

The first one is RANG BZHIN but not NAM GYUR. The second one is RANG BZHIN and NAM GYUR. The third one is just NAM GYUR.

It doesn't say not RANG BZHIN but Prakriti but it's probably saying that. And then the last one is neither nor. Okay?

So the Sankhyas have categorized the 25 into four groups by a MU SHI MU GSUM. What's one and not the other. What's one and not the other.

What's neither and what's both. Okay? And that's how they explain their 25.

That's how they group their 25. And half the texts say YIN here. As does GYES RLONG GZHER BU'ANG PO.

But he corrects himself later. So somebody miscarved it or something like that. Very frustrating.

ZHES ZHES PA LTAR Say CI TSO'O. CI TSO'O CI TSO'O This is a later word for RANG BZHIN that came up and I don't find it in the Sanskrit. Okay?

It may be there. TSO'O is pradhana. And that is used in Sankhya.

Pradhana. And the Tibetans said CI TSO'O. They called it CI TSO'O which CI means overall.

Granddaddy. Big, big president. Yeah, yeah, it is.

In the end it's the same. CI TSO'O means prakirti. It's another word for prakirti.

And there's another word for prarusha which I'll give you later. But sometimes you will see in Buddhist literature prakirti referred to as pradhana. Pradhana.

Which is like first principle. Sometimes they call it first principle. Granddaddy of all things.

In normal English. In colloquial English we say granddaddy of all things. But we say mother nature.

So one gets to be a boy, one gets to be a mother. A girl. LO'AM CHEN PO Sorry, the next one is LO also known as CHEN PO.

The AM means also known as. So you can call it buddhi or you can call it mahatma. Okay?

That's number two. has two names. Okay?

So don't get confused. We're going to in order. But we're not doing the numbers.

We're going to do that later. Well, here's a place to do it. But there's better ways, there's better presentations.

This is not bad. Number three is called NGA RGYAL. A-HUNG GAR A-HUNG GAR A-HUNG means me.

Self. I. Yeah, NGA.

A-HUNG. GAR means maker. And the full form in Tibetan is BDAG GUR RDZIN PA'I DANG DANG RDZIN or something.

I'll show it to you. Actually I have it here. NGA RGYAL RDZIN PA'I NGA RGYAL See how they translated it?

The Tibetans stretched it out. Pride which holds to me. Pride which holds to me.

It's the Tibetan translation for A-HUNG GAR. Okay. Well, the Sanskrit is me maker.

Okay. A-HUNG means me. It's in the Vajrayogini Sangha.

OM SHUDDHA SAVA DHARMA SHUDDHA SAVA DHARMA HUNG OM SHUDDHA SAVA DHARMA SHUDDHA SA DO HUNG When you get an O, the A drops out from A-HUNG. I am all things. SAVA DHARMA SHUDDHA HUNG SUBARU SHUDDHA HUNG SUBARU SHUDDHA HUNG Then the Tibetans corrupted it to HUNG or something.

But it's A-HUNG. It's me. I am.

Yeah, and before an A-S. After an A-S, A gets dropped out. The A-S changes to O and there's an elision.

There's a break. That little thing that looks like a NYA. Yeah, okay.

So, if you're interested, you are. It means a vowel drop sound is required to drop down in Sanskrit. ATMAKAS AHAM ATMAKAS AHAM is part of a famous mantra in Vajrayogini.

ATMAKAS AHAM ATMAKA means DAG NI I am the combination of all things. Then ATMAKAS AHAM There's an elision of the A in AHAM. AHAM.

It changes to HAM. And the KAS has to change to KO. So, ATMAKO HAM Then the Tibetans started to mishear it as HUNG.

So, they will say ATMAKO HUNG. Or ATMAKO HUNG. ATMA...

Oh, they have a little symbol that looks like a NYA. In Tibetan.

[Speaker 2]
In Tibetan.

[Speaker 1]
And it goes like this. And then this part has a little tail on it. And that means an elision.

In transcription we use an apostrophe in Sanskrit.

[Speaker 2]
And then what would you use in Tibetan? In Roman Tibetan?

[Speaker 1]
They put a NYA there. Which is one of the only ambiguities in our system. They don't know enough to know that it's not a NYA.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, I see.

[Speaker 1]
So, you just have to figure it out. We should have used a percentage sign or something, but we just didn't have that sophistication. It's rare.

[Speaker 2]
It's extremely rare.

[Speaker 1]
What is it in Devanagari?

[Speaker 2]
It's like a little S looking thing.

[Speaker 1]
Oh yeah, it looks like this. Okay, anyway. So, we have two so far.

Oh, that's three. Ahamkara. Tibetans call it pride.

You see all kinds of things in English in Sankhya schools. What do they call it? Ahamkara.

You can look it up online. Well, they have some weird English for it.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, yeah. I mean, they call it like ego or anything.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, ego is okay. Ego is okay. Ego is not bad.

I hate to agree with them on something, but... Ego is pretty good. Ego is pretty good, actually.

Ego is pretty good. Okay, the next five are the tan-matras. Tan-matra.

Say tan-matra. It means tat-matra. And when the T joins with an M inside a single word, the T has to change to N.

Tan-matra. Tan-matra. Okay, so de-tsam.

De-tsam means just that. And I would like to translate it as basic building block or something like that. It just means just that.

But what it means is the basic components of all physical form, which are sa-chu-me-lung-nam-ka The five... I'm sorry. No, I'm sorry.

Go back. I'm sorry. I misspoke.

suk-dra-ti-ro-rek-ja Visible things. In this case, translate suk as... Don't say form.

Yeah, visible things, hearable things, smellable things, tasteable things, and touchable things. I'd like to see the Heart Sutra translated that way. Or you can say things you can see, things you can hear, things you can smell, things you can taste, things you can touch.

That's a maybe easier way to translate the Heart Sutra. So those five are the tan-matras, which means tat-matra, which means just that. Just that.

They're just the basic things. The basic, basic stuff. Okay, got it?

Now, this is cool because he says, de-le-jung So he's... Now he's putting a... You're going to see a progression.

Starts with nature, then goes to mind, and then that changes to ego, and then that becomes the basic building blocks of the universe. And then from that comes sa chu me lung nam ka ma-ha-buddha Usually they call it ma-ha-buddha. jungwa chenpo We talked about it in Adam's text.

Oftentimes, to clarify which buddha you're talking about, because buddha can mean ghost also. Yeah, jungpo. So to make it clear, we call it ma-ha, the big ones.

Meaning the ones that help create all matter. But here it's interesting, because he says they come from the tantra. Tantra.

They come from the tantra. The five elements. He added a fifth one, which is?

Space. Earth, water, fire, wind, and space. So for them, five elements.

Space allowing things to stand in a place. Which some people argue is a function, and then space is changing. But that's another story.

Okay, sa chu... the jungwa nga ma-ha-buddha From that comes the sixth manendra Sorry. Yeah, manendra.

Manas. I'm sorry, manendriya. Lo-wang manendriya What do they say?

Oh, we'll get there. We'll get there. Anyway, I want you to be comfortable with lo-wang.

lo-yi wangpo wangpo is a power, meaning a sense power. Indriya. Indriya in Sanskrit.

And they are manas. Indriya. Which you can say, you crunch it into manendriya.

A plus I equals E. Manendriya. Manendriya.

Mental powers. Oh, and then the ne here means from the eye up to the mind. He doesn't list them all.

From the sense power of the eye up to the power of the mind.

[Speaker 2]
Par.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and this should have been par. This should have been par. Ne goes with par.

Ne goes with par. From this up to that. From this up to that.

Ne goes with par. From the sense power of the eye to the sense power of the mind. These are the manendras.

Manendriyas. Well, he said, he didn't draw a causal connection between these two. I'm going to give it to you from somewhere else.

He hasn't drawn a causal connection between these two.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, because they don't sometimes.

[Speaker 1]
Well, that's why I got three explanations of it. Because different ones have different detail. And all together, they are clear.

[Speaker 2]
And so we're dividing manas up into the...

[Speaker 1]
No, these are the first kind of indriya and there's another kind of indriya. Karmendriya. Karma indriya.

Which joins together as karmendriya. And that karma means function. They do things.

Powers you need to do things. And that's our next subject. Which there's five of them.

The first one is vaag. Speech. The power of speech.

The power of speech. These are karma indriya, indriya meaning you use them to do things. You use them to function.

You use them to speak. For example, vaag si ni vaag. The voice.

Came into English as voice. Came into Latin as vaag. Came into Jimi Hendrix's guitar amp as vaag.

Na ki wangpo. The power of speech. Then your hands.

Lakpa. Then your feet. Then your asshole.

[Speaker 2]
Coop. That's the coop we had yesterday. Kyakpa chepa la.

[Speaker 1]
Coop ke. Kepa. The bunghole.

It means the muscles of the sphincter of the anus. The ones that cut the poop. And then dom means sexual organ.

The penis.

[Speaker 2]
So...

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, they don't normally refer to a lady's one as dom. Just so you know. Dom is the literary word for penis.

So these are the five that do stuff. What are those two in Sanskrit? I'm just curious.

I don't remember. I didn't look it up. I didn't look it up.

This might be ashmini, right?

[Speaker 2]
Ashmini? Ashmini?

[Speaker 1]
Coop is ashmini? Well, when you're doing yoga, it's called the horse mudra.

[Speaker 2]
But... Anyway.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, the five... He didn't say le kyi wangpo, but he should have. They're carmendria.

He didn't call them le kyi wangpo. He should have called them le kyi wangpo. To distinguish them from loi wangpo.

These are manendra. These are carmendra. But somebody else will.

Somebody else coming will.

[Speaker 2]
He just listed them? He didn't put a general name?

[Speaker 1]
He didn't specify karma indriya. He just called them indriya. But he should have called them karma indriya.

Because these are manas indriya. Manendriya. Yeah, okay.

So six manendriya and five carmendriya. Then say dak she rik gi kye bu. Dak she rik gi kye bu.

This is a term that apparently came up later in Tibet for purusha. Which is kye bu. Kye bu is purusha.

Person. But this became a very popular term in referring to purusha. I don't know if it comes from Sanskrit.

It would be something like atman vidya purusha or something. So maybe there's a longer version of purusha. I don't know.

But this is very common in Tibetan literature when they talk about, when they criticize the idea of purusha. They say self-mind-knowing person. How we break that out, I don't know.

Dak she rik gi kye bu. You could say the conscious person who is the self. Awareness.

Well, no, I think she rik is modifying kye bu. Purusha, who is conscious and who is self. Now, sometimes prakriti will be called self, dak.

So be careful there. Atman. Sometimes prakriti will be called atman.

But this is the most, this is a very common, so here you have it 80 years after Je Tsongkapa. Dak she rik gi pum. Now, when you give a list of numbered things and you want to total them, you say dung.

Which makes, dung, 2 plus 3 plus 4 plus 6 plus 8 and 25. Actually, it was 1 plus 1 plus 1 plus 5 plus 5 plus 6 plus 5 plus 1. Let's do it again.

You add it. Ready? Ready?

1 plus 1 plus 1 plus 5 plus 5 plus 6 plus 5 plus 1. Purusha. There we go.

Okay, there we go. DE YANG RTZA BA'I RANG BZHIN NAM MA RGYUR MIN That root prakriti, mother nature, that prakriti which is the basis of all things, is not a nam myur. It's not an expression.

They say expression. They use the word expression, meaning result. It's not an expression.

And when you say an expression of, you're kind of implying there's a doer. You see? The word expression implies someone doing the expressing.

It's an expression of who? What? When you say expression, you're almost implying a prakriti, a doer, a creator.

But of course we know prakriti is not a creator. We didn't get to that yet. So, root nature is not an expression.

And these are my own notes to myself. I was sitting there and it occurred to me it's a cause but not a result. Then the seven, DUN, which is buddhi or mahat plus the others, which is ahankara and the five tanmatras, those seven are both, here's where I got the both, which I supplied in the text, in the verses.

Here's where I got the DUN from. They are both prakriti and vikara. They are both nature, capital N, and expression of nature.

Got it? The other sixteen, which is confusing because what's the difference between seeable things, knowable things? Why does that get to be part of prakriti but the elements don't get to be?

It's not confusing to me. I don't know. Anyway, GZHAN CHUG RDUG NI, the next sixteen, the other sixteen, are expressions.

But here also he doesn't say, not nature. We'll see if someone else says it. It sounds like he's talking of mu shi mu sum, but he doesn't say not nature.

Maybe he was afraid to. Then PUR BZHA SKYES BU, person, capital P, is RANG BZHIN DANG RNAM GYUR NI DKA' MA YIN That's where I corrected the verse from. The it is neither nature or an expression.

Person, capital P, is neither nature nor an expression.

[Speaker 2]
ZHES ZER That's what they say. In hypertexting, you would hypertext together DKA' MA as neither?

[Speaker 1]
Well, NYID DKA' means both, right? NYID DKA' means both. MA YIN means they are not.

It is not both. Meaning in English, in English you have to say neither. It is neither.

In English you use, with this kind of syntax, and by the way, that's a sign of a bad translation. They will say it is not both. But we don't say in English it is not both.

We never say it is not both.

[Speaker 2]
We say it's...

[Speaker 1]
Well, not... Anyway, we say it's neither. Is he handsome or is he strong?

Neither. We don't say he is not either. You see what I mean?

Normally, we don't say that in English. A sign of a bad translation is they will say not either or not both. In my opinion.

In normal English we just say he is neither. He is neither. It means he is not both.

We don't say he is not both. Okay, here we go. Now, this comment by Srila Bhuwambo was one reason why I included him.

Because it was so helpful to me. DE YANG DI RANG BZHIN DER PRAKIRTI I am sorry. RANG BZHIN here means cause.

And expression here means result. DER DO, that's what they think. They think Prakirti is cause.

In this discussion of either of Mushi Musum. In this discussion of Mushi Musum. Is it A or B or is it both A and B?

Is it neither A and B or is it B but not A? In this discussion, DI YI In this discussion, nature means cause and expression means result. That was very helpful to me.

Wow, great. Yeah, that was really helpful to me. So, it's a Mushi Musum between being a cause and a result.

What is a cause but not a result? Of the twenty-five. Prakirti.

Prakirti, mother nature. Which are results and causes. No, buddhi.

Buddhi or being. Ahamkara. And then the five tantra.

Those seven are both cause and effect. Then the next six, which is the elements and something else.

[Speaker 2]
I'm sorry.

[Speaker 1]
Is it the... Okay. He's going to say it here.

Let's go on. You figure it out. DRANG CAN NA BYAS RAB PA GNYIS SKAD KYANG This was very helpful to me.

His next comment was very helpful to me. The Sankhyas and the Vaisheshikas, both of them, SKAD KYANG They are the same. RDA.

RDA can sometimes mean the same. Mostly it means similar. They agree on...

They hold the same position that DGOS PA, agree that the self, Atman, has five different characteristics. SKAD CHOS means features. SKAD CHOS as opposed to SKAD ZHIG.

SKAD ZHIG means the thing that has the features. SKAD CHOS means the features. That's a logic word that you guys should know.

Say SKAD ZHIG. The thing that has the features. Meaning the foundation of it.

Or SKAD PAR means the features. Now sometimes SKAD PAR means different. I'm sorry, SKAD CHOS.

SKAD PAR SKAD CHOS It's confusing because SKAD PAR often means especially. SKAD PAR by itself often means especially. So you're going to get confused.

SKAD CHOS or SKAD PAR can mean the feature of something, which differentiates it from other things. That's the meaning. The RDA here is the SKAD ZHIG, the thing which has the features.

It has five features that both the Sankhyas and the Vaisheshikas can agree on. Then they're not going to agree on something else. It's so helpful.

Genlong Sherm almost so helpful.

[Speaker 2]
What's the KYANG?

[Speaker 1]
Excuse me? The KYANG. This is a positive KYANG.

Both of them. It emphasizes both of them. Both of them.

It's a good question. They also have some differences between them. DUD TSUL MIN DRA BA They also have some differences of opinion.

They agree on... Even though KYANG, they agree that AKHMAN, the self, has five features, they disagree on other stuff. He's going to specify it, which is I'm going to kiss him, but he's already dead.

By the way, you never say dead of a Lama. You say passed on to their mother. MIN DRA STE DANG CAN GYI BDAG TE The AKHMAN, according to the Sankhyas, the me, according to the Sankhyas.

Here, you could get a little taste of AKHMAN meaning BDAG, meaning the non-existing thing in which the first link is looking at. Here you have the word used. BDAG, the self.

Meaning in Buddhism, the non-existent self. The BDAG CHA. DANG CAN GYI BDAG By the way, they believe in it.

We believe that's a BDAG MED. We believe that's a stupid kind of BDAG. Come on.

Created everything, but wasn't made himself. But it is in the list of BDAGs that Buddhists deny. But it's so crude that we don't even talk about it.

We're more interested in the BDAG CHA of the six flavors of emptiness. That's what we're interested in. Starting with her BDAG that she's been studying.

RANG RGYAL THUB PA RANG RGYAL THUB PA Here we go. These are the five that they both agree on. I'm sorry.

[Speaker 2]
I'm sorry.

[Speaker 1]
Well, let's see. DANG CAN GYI BDAG TE Are you talking about? Oh, that's a good question.

It must be prakirti. Because it's the same as we heard him describe before as sapo. Sapo.

The eater. He is the eater, colon. Meaning, now he explains the word eater, consumer.

He's the consumer in the sense that he is the experiencer or the enjoyer of the results. Yeah. No, prakirti.

Really? Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Prakirti doesn't experience anything.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, prakirti just sits there.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, sapo means?

[Speaker 1]
I'm sorry, you're right. No. Sapo means...

Oh, the negative distributes the sapo. Okay, so I misread it? No.

Anyway.

[Speaker 2]
What is sapo? Eater.

[Speaker 1]
Consumer. Okay, maybe it's Purusha. Let's go see.

Okay. Sapote. The atman...

I'm going to get out of the problem. The atman is the eater in the sense that it is the experiencer or the enjoyer of the results. It is not the maker of the results.

Je bu mayin. And it is a functioning thing which never changes.

[Speaker 2]
BTAG PA'I DNGOS PO Are we moving through the list of five?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, we're going to the list of five.

[Speaker 2]
Third.

[Speaker 1]
We're on the third. Yeah, this isn't a positive. Je bu lang chupa po describes eater.

[Speaker 2]
The eater in the sense of experience.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, in the sense of it's the day.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, and then two is it's...

[Speaker 1]
Two, but he's not the maker of all results. Okay. Okay.

Three, he's an unchanging functioning thing. Okay? Unchanging functioning thing?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, BTAG PA'I DNGOS PO.

[Speaker 1]
He's a functioning thing which never changes. It's one of our big problems.

[Speaker 2]
About the word order and determining which word is modifying which.

[Speaker 1]
DNGOS PO'I BTAG PA would mean a non-changing thing which is functioning. BTAG PA'I DNGOS PO means a functioning thing which is not changing. That's the syntax.

[Speaker 2]
They would deny that by the way. It's implied by their position, but they would deny it. I mean, I think he's right.

[Speaker 1]
Well, let's keep going. I'm not clear whether they're talking about Purusha or Prakrti yet. They're talking about Atman.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, that should be Purusha.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, next. He doesn't possess the gunas of Rajas, Tamas, and Sattva.

[Speaker 2]
That's Purusha.

[Speaker 1]
Does not possess. Rajas, Tamas, and Sattva.

[Speaker 2]
Right, that's why...

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you see, you hear all kinds of things. See, Hindus always talk about people have three natures. You want to talk about them?

You know a lot of stuff.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, there's Rajas.

[Speaker 1]
How would you describe a Rajas personality?

[Speaker 2]
Energetic.

[Speaker 1]
Actually, he's going to define them.

[Speaker 2]
Anyway.

[Speaker 1]
The Buddhists, the Tibetans, chose the word du for Rajas.

[Speaker 2]
Huh?

[Speaker 1]
Which means particle. Oh. Like du ten gyi bum.

It's an atomic bomb.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, good.

[Speaker 1]
So, yeah, Rajas. I'm sorry. Yeah, Rajas personality.

The Tibetan was called Rajas. Rajas can mean du, and by the way, I believe, if I'm not mistaken, it can refer to menstruation. Raj meaning red.

So, I believe. I may be mistaken.

[Speaker 2]
RDUL.

[Speaker 1]
RDUL. It means particle, dust, dirt, drops.

[Speaker 2]
Rajas.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Yeah, go figure. You deal with it.

[Speaker 2]
It does mean menstruation.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it can mean menstruation. Yeah, tamas means dark, cloudy. Mumba means dark.

The Tibetans chose the word dark for... What was it? Tamas.

Tamas. Okay, and then nying to, which means courage. It means power of the heart.

It means courage in Tibetan. It's for sattva.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. And these are the gunas.

[Speaker 1]
So, yun den is the translation of guna.

[Speaker 2]
One of the reasons we want to call our studio near guna is because we're not going to teach this.

[Speaker 1]
We can learn. That's a cool name. Some people say that's the source of niguma.

Guna mepa. So, this dak, this atman, doesn't have these three basic qualities. It lacks these three basic qualities.

And, dro ung gi jawa dang den. He does come and go. He does undertake the activities of coming and going.

Atman. Atman does come and go. Let's do the five again.

It is an experiencer of results. This is not nam gyur. He didn't say expressions.

Here he called it results. It does experience results. It is not the creator of the results.

But it is a functioning thing which never changes. It doesn't have the qualities of rajas, tamas, and sattva. And, number five, it does come and go.

It does come and go. It does possess the activities of coming and going. kye chu nga den du du.

The sankhyas believe atman has these five qualities. He doesn't say purusha, but it's confusing to me. We'll go back.

We'll go look at other authors. Maybe. We'll go back and look at other authors.

Is this the atman to be denied by sankhyas? I don't know.

[Speaker 2]
We'll go look.

[Speaker 1]
There's a long story and it's kind of cute.

[Speaker 2]
It's cute.

[Speaker 1]
Let's see. Now, for your information, the vaisheshikas agree with three of those, but they disagree with two of them. Three of them are the same.

Three of them are the same. You're going to figure it out by deduction from the ones they don't agree to. But they accept du.

They do believe that is the doer of results. It is the maker of results. Atman is the maker of results.

[Speaker 2]
That's not an agreement. That's a...

[Speaker 1]
No, they disagree with these two. The sankhyas said it is not the creator.

[Speaker 2]
Where?

[Speaker 1]
Up here. Not the creator of results is atman, according to the sankhyas. But the vaisheshikas say, I'm sorry, you're wrong about that one.

It is the creator of results. And number two, it does have those three qualities. Do we disagree with you on two of the five attributes of atman?

The vaisheshikas. Yeah. I'm recording now my stomach.

Okay. How are we doing on time? Oh, let's finish this.

Let's finish Gelong Sherab Wombo. We'll finish Gelong Sherab Wombo. Then we'll go to Chandrakirti.

Then we'll go back to Je Tsongkapa. And we can do it in your class, right? No, I mean...

We're going to finish Gelong Sherab Wombo. By the way, it's one of the very few people who's called Gelong something. It's not an attribute.

It's only part of his name. CHE BDAG PAS... Oh, sorry.

DE DAG BSDOD PA'I RGYUR TSE YOD TE There's a reason why they say that. There's a reason why they believe that. Why?

CHE BDAG PAS... Hang on. Okay.

Because they believe that the atman is a... is a functioning thing which is unchanging. Which is shared apparently by the Sankhya.

Okay? Up here. Functioning thing which is unchanging.

Okay? They believe that the atman is a functioning thing which is unchanging. It must be they also believe.

Okay? And they believe that the meaning of guna is that... Oh, I'm sorry.

They believe that the definition of ze, of substance. They believe that the definition of substance is where the gunas provide the support for all other objects. For other objects.

They believe that substance, substantial means the gunas provide the support for other objects. Therefore, I guess, the atman must have the gunas. In this case.

[Speaker 2]
Well, I guess they disagree about the gunas. Right? Because the other one said they intend to make.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. They believe... Right?

That was the second point of disagreement. They said atman does have gunas. The vaisheshikas.

Sorry? Guna here just means attribute. Quality.

I wouldn't say good quality. It's just... It's almost like nature.

Nowadays, in the Bahamas, they will say it's personality traits. If a person has rajas, they get angry easily. If a person has tamas, they're lazy.

If a person has sattva, they're good-hearted. That's how it has come to be understood in modern times. It's almost like...

And then, what do you call it? Ayurveda will address your gunas. If you have more rajas, they'll try to give you cooling things.

You know? Like that. Yeah.

So, it has come to mean that. But I don't see much of that in the ancient explanations. No, I like demanding.

Undemanding is too tamasic. Yeah, they call it rajasic, tamasic, and sattvic.

[Speaker 2]
Well, it's okay.

[Speaker 1]
That's alright. That's not so bad. But I don't see in the ancient literature them as personality traits.

But it could be. It could be. They're more like basic energies or something.

Okay. Pee-pee break. Utpala.

Oh, by the way, after Gelong Sher Wambo, we will go to Chandrakirti.

[Speaker 2]
After Chandrakirti, we'll go to Tsongkapa and then we'll go back to Dharmakirti.

[Speaker 1]
Dharmakirti. We'll go back to Pramanavarttika. Pramanavarttika.

Which was relevant to her text because we were talking about switching bodies. So, go back. We got to go back.

We're going to go from... Tsongkapa's going to be based on Chandrakirti. It's going to be based on Gelong Sher Wambo.

It's going to be based on Pramanavarttika. It's going to explain why they want to change bodies. Which proves they think there is a self independent of the bodies.

This is ... what do you call it? To make up for my failure in the Mainolds school, but I still did not figure out the Mandona school.

I am just distracting you.

[Speaker 2]
I am just distracting you.

[Speaker 1]
But I will work on the mind only school. Don't worry. I was listening to a lecture about this last night by an asanta.