Медитации на пустоту: объяснение шагов к пониманию того, что ничто не является самим собой, занятие 10

[Speaker 2]
We were just listening to a presentation by Gyalong Sheramwong. I'm sorry?

[Speaker 1]
Oh, now that's always a question. I believe the sanghas of his time would have. Chandrakirti's time.

Or else he probably couldn't have gotten away with it. But sanghas have probably changed over the last 700 years. 1300 years.

But I think this presentation is really sexy. It's like Yuan Tzu. You're getting a window into the bliss of his generation.

I doubt that anyone teaches it this way nowadays. This is actually a... It's like reading Hatha Yoga Padipika or something.

It's a 500 year old... I like it. I think it would be of interest to people who know the current Sankhya system if you could establish that what you're saying has a source which is 1300 years old.

I think it would be very interesting for them. Then they're going to ask you questions and you're going to have to say, he doesn't talk about that. But I think it's super...

I would write to Swamiji and say, I just found this thing and this is exciting. You might be interested to hear what the Sankhya's were saying. This is an accurate presentation of what Sankhya's were saying 1300 years ago, which I'm not sure is available in the Sankhya system right now.

Okay. Who's missing? Oh, Ben.

Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Sashi.

[Speaker 1]
Sashi. Sashi. Sashi.

Sashi. Sashi. Sashi.

Sashi. Sashi. Sashi.

Sashi. Sashi. Sashi.

Sashi. Sashi. Sashi.

Sashi.

[Speaker 2]
Sashi.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, here we go. So, we're going to stay on those three authors who have longer explanations of the Sankhya system before we go to your text where it's a summary of those beliefs. So, you'll be eminently qualified to translate it by the time you finish these three sections.

Three people we're using is Gelong Sherabwambo, who's about a hundred years after Je Tsongkapa, who was good at simplifying Je Tsongkapa, and he spent his life doing that. And then, which is what I'm going to try and do in this mind-only text. And then, although there's no writers, I haven't found writers who did a good version of that, but I'll find it.

[Speaker 2]
Sorry?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, did you have a question about that? I'll go back there. So, anyway, we're going through three authors.

Gelong Sherabwambo. We finished him, but I'll go back and finish the last sentence again. The second author, Master Chandrakirti, and then we're going to do Je Tsongkapa, and then we'll go back to Choney Lama.

That's our strategy. Because each of the three authors, other authors, says a few things that are not in the other two. Especially what's interesting to me, to be frank, is there's a nice little piece about how does liberation fit in here?

What has to happen between the twenty-five tattvas for a person to get liberated? It's very kind of intriguing what they say, and I haven't heard that said that way before. I sat through, Swamiji did the twenty-five tattvas in detail for like a week, and I sat through that.

But this is more interesting. To me, it gives a lot of extra detail that's interesting to me. Okay, now you asked about, oh yeah, shensung drawa means, of the five positions of the Sankhya about the nature of the Atman, three of them are similar, meaning they accept three.

But this law is the disjunctive law. But there's two points on which they differ. Yeah, no, the Vaisheshika differ from the Sankhya on three of the five points.

Sorry, on two of the five points. On three of them they agree. The two that they don't agree on is doer of results, maker of results, and on whether or not this Atman has the three qualities of tamas, rajas, and sattva.

And the reason for the difference between the two is the Vaisheshika's belief in an unchanging functioning thing, and their belief that the gunas must provide, sorry, that their definition of substance, substantial, is that it has an underpinning of the three gunas. Okay, yeah, okay, so here we go. So, den, den chepa, it provides the basis for underpins.

Okay, alright, let's go on to Chandrakirti. Surprisingly readable, and interesting about this subject, and then you're aware that other authors have pretty much just paraphrased Chandrakirti. Okay, so, jik tsa la tar mikpa dak te, chi shik che, so this is really hard, it's much harder to read than Tsongkapa.

It's 700 years before Tsongkapa. Right, jik tsa la tar mikpa, the first link of the Wheel of Life, the view of the destruction, which focuses on? All the mind?

Yeah, pinchable.

[Speaker 2]
I'll kiss you. Okay, jik tsa la tar.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, yeah. Then, de chi shik che, de nyi mi sheso, you keep talking about this self-nature, which is focused upon by the first link in the Wheel of Life, by ignorance or misunderstanding. Can you tell me exactly what that looks like?

Because I don't know what you're... I don't know. You keep saying no self-nature, but what does self-nature mean?

What is atman? What is self? Okay, that you keep saying, we see something which is not there.

We see an atman which is not there, but I don't know what you're talking about. Can you explain more about this atman which is not there, that I think is there? Then we say, de la re shik, so okay, one answer we can give.

Re shik is a little hard. Re shik kind of means temporarily, or for the moment, or what do you call it? You can say conditionally.

Provisionally is better, yeah. Okay, all right, just to give you part of the answer, because we're not going to talk about chedapas maybe right here by shesikas. I'll give you some of the nature, I'll give you some answer.

SA PO DAG NGOS BYAS PO MIN PAS BTAGS YIN DE'I BYAMS MED MUD TE RNAMS KYIS BTAGS DE BYED CHUNG ZAD CHUNG ZAD LA BSTAN NAS MUD TE CHEN NAMS RUNG GI THAMS CAD NYON RUNG Okay, this is a different verse than the one we had before, and this is actually a verse from the Madhyamaka Avatara. This is Chandrakirti's verse to talk about the Sankhyas. I don't know who we were.

No, that was supposed to be a Sankhya text.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, no, yeah, good question.

[Speaker 1]
Chandrakirti is paraphrasing Chandrakirti. This is Chandrakirti's auto-commentary. Yeah, that's a good question.

We're in his auto-commentary. We're in his auto-commentary. That was a great question.

I also had the question last night. I was like, wait a minute, some of this is not in poetry. What are you talking about?

I'll give you guys some.

[Speaker 2]
Wow, instant comment.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, here we go. SABO, it is the consumer. BDAG PA'I DNGOS PO.

Good, but it's not the chepo. Yeah. What is that?

BDAG, atman. We're talking about an atman, a self, which is a but it's a changing thing which is... I'm sorry, it's an unchanging thing which does do something, but it's not the creator.

Okay, the atman I'm talking about. We're still suspending the question of, is he talking about Prakriti or is he talking about something else? Well, they might not accept that.

So, we have to make it clear. They don't believe it's true that if you are producing results, you have to have a cause. So, if they can believe that, they can believe anything.

YIN DAN BYA BYAS MUD DU NAMS KYI BDAG. I'm not sure with the BYA MED here, but anyway, we know that the atman is supposed to be not in the Sankhya system, underpinned by the gunas. Yeah, it doesn't have the gunas.

Okay, so the YIN DAN here is easy. Why it says BYA MED? The MED has to distribute to the YIN DAN, because we know the atman according to the Sankhya doesn't have gunas.

So, something where the gunas don't apply to it provisionally. Let's go see what he says later. MUD DU NAMS KYI BDAG.

This BDAG is B-R-T, so it's not label. It's not label. It's not the past tense of label, which would have no R.

This is the past tense of R-T-O-G.

[Speaker 2]
Got it?

[Speaker 1]
No.

[Speaker 2]
Ew.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, no. They think. With a no S.

No S. This is the past tense of R-T-O-G.

[Speaker 2]
So, this is what the tirthikas think.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, imagine. Derogatory.

[Speaker 2]
A thought.

[Speaker 1]
This is what they made up. This is what they thought up, literally. This is what they thought up.

Those mudeks, those tirthikas, those ghat-goers.

[Speaker 2]
Ghat-goers.

[Speaker 1]
Sandtorch was cute, because the first thing he said, I saw him, he introduced himself to a lady and he said, we have 48 ghats in our city. And she's like, these are stairs that... he lives in Varanasi.

These are stairs that go down into the holy river, kanjis. I have no idea what this deyjay is. I've never seen it.

Dey is the day in deypan, ship captain. I'm just wondering if it's a misspelling or if it's some new word for me. So, how do we find out?

Let's take a chunk out of it. Okay, well actually I answered myself.

[Speaker 2]
What do you mean? What did he do to save us?

[Speaker 1]
No, but here's the original.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, I'm sorry. I need to sit down. Here you go, look.

[Speaker 1]
Here's the original tengyur.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, look at that. Deyjay.

[Speaker 1]
Wow. Completely different. Deyyewa.

Divisions of that. Yeah, the divisions of that.

[Speaker 2]
That's better.

[Speaker 1]
Deyye. Okay, so look how we're going to change this.

[Speaker 2]
Is that a step-by mistake? Step-by. Step-by what?

[Speaker 1]
Okay, there's the correct... Okay. Luckily it didn't mean anything.

Or I would have misinterpreted it. Deyye wa jungse jungse la ten ne, mudek chen na luk ni ta de gyur. I don't know what he's talking about exactly here, but I'm guessing it might be the differences between them and the Vaisheshikas.

Deyye jungse jungse. Due to little details of the divisions of that atman, there are different tirthika systems. So that would fit what we know about the five qualities of atman according to the Sankhyas, of which only...

How many are accepted? By the Vaisheshikas? Yeah, okay.

So I believe he's headed there. But let's confirm it. He's calling them all mudek chen.

But they are. Both of them are mudekpas. No, both of them are tirthikas.

Thank you though.

[Speaker 2]
I do eat some sometimes. Who doesn't like to go to the gods?

[Speaker 1]
Dey la chang chenpa dang, I don't like to go to the gods.

[Speaker 2]
He does.

[Speaker 1]
I don't want to talk about it. Dey la chang chenpa dang. The Sankhyas say...

Now there's a... This is their quotation. That we had before.

Now is that part in the... By the way, I believe this is the oldest source for that quotation. Yeah, it's not part of the Madhyamaka Amitabha.

Okay. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, good luck.

Now this is where he presented the mu shi of the 25 tatvas, the 25 qualities. He grouped them into four according to four combinations of two qualities. They are this, but not that.

They are not that, but they are this. They are both this and that, and they are neither this and that. What is the this and what is the that?

Rangshin.

[Speaker 2]
Rangshin is...

[Speaker 1]
No. One of the two criteria is being prakirti or not. And the other quality is being namgyur or not.

Viparana. Being an expression. The Tibetans translated viparana as expression.

An expression of rangshin.

[Speaker 2]
By the way, nowadays they say evolute, which sucks, but scholars say...

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I'm just saying these were the words that were chosen a thousand years ago in Tibet. And they might have a flavor which is helpful in understanding them, and they might not. So, what is that thing which is both...

I'm sorry, what is that thing which is prakirti but is not an expression? Yeah, prakirti. Yeah, yeah.

All he says here is that mother of all prakirtis, mother prakirti is not an expression. La, soft, soft continuizer. But chenpo.

Mahat. Is that mahat or mahat?

[Speaker 2]
I don't know. Mahant. You see it both ways.

[Speaker 1]
Let's go see what Locust Chandra says.

[Speaker 2]
I thought those were equivalent. Mahat and hant.

[Speaker 1]
They are, but I'm just curious if there's a long A or not. I think it's mahat. But let's go look.

By the way, you can check on it near chen, right? Near chenpo. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
There we go.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, that's not it.

[Speaker 2]
Mahat. Mahat.

[Speaker 1]
That's not it. Let's look it up. Chenpo with backslashes on it.

Okay.

[Speaker 2]
What do the backslashes do?

[Speaker 1]
It isolates chenpo by itself. Not in combination with anything else.

[Speaker 2]
In Locust Chandra.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, in Locust Chandra. I guess it's mahat. It's short.

Mahat. Mahat. I just wanted to pronounce it correctly.

Mahat. Mahat is synonym for? Buddhi.

Mahat which equals buddhi. Etc. Those seven are prakirti and nam gyur.

Dong understood between these two words because we found it in Geylang Sherabuangpo's commentary. He added the word and between rangshin and nam gyur which is more clear. Mahat, the group of seven which starts with mahat if you read Adi in the Sanskrit is both rangshin and nam gyur.

Yeah, they are both prakirti and its expressions. Sixteen are expressions. The next sixteen are expressions.

He did not say that they are not prakirti but perhaps understood.

[Speaker 2]
Maybe.

[Speaker 1]
I'm not sure. Yeah, but that he didn't mention it may be significant. If he's doing a real mu shi mu sum we have to assume that it's not prakirti but maybe that's not the point.

And gyabu Probably purusha. It is purusha. It's not rangshin and here it's spelled correctly.

We found that half the text had the wrong spelling here and they reversed it. So purusha is neither prakirti nor vikara, an expression. She mawar che do That verb connects back to drangchenpa.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, that's what the drangchenpa say?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, the drangchenpa say and then the verse. In English you're going to say the Sankhyas say and then you're going to quote the verse. DE LA RAB DU BYED PAS NA RANG BZHIN NO If you were a Sanskrit scholar even if you're not Wow, is that chai?

Don't tell anybody. You want some real chai? Have a sip.

Can you pour her some? You drink it out of here because I have a coffee. Okay.

There's plenty of it. Okay. She makes an awesome chai.

She learned in India. Okay, here we go. I like this.

If you were real Sanskrit scholars you would see that he's giving a Dharma Dur thing here. DE LA RAB DU BYED PAS NA RANG BZHIN DE LA RAB DU BYED Because it is such an ultra-doer we call it RANG BZHIN Because it's Prakarana we call it Prakarti. And that pun doesn't come out in the Tibetan.

This is a translation of Sanskrit, right? This is Chandrakirti writing. Yeah, definitely.

Or I would do what I call an ego footnote to show people how smart I am. But I would probably make sure I have the Prakarana spelled correctly. Otherwise I'm a fool.

I believe it's... I believe it's this. And we'll say RAB DU BYED.

Super-doer. Okay. Over-achiever.

Okay, here we go. Nope, sorry. Let's do Prakarana.

Nope. Let's take off the A. Let's just do Prak.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, Prakarana.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, all short A's. Prakarana. Okay, so there you go.

If you include that in your essay the pun is it's Prakirti because it Prakaras. And na means doer. The na, N-A in Sanskrit at the end of a word suffix is B-Y-E-D in Tibetan.

It's a doer. Plumber. Pramana.

Okay, yeah. N-A at the end makes it E-R in English. It will be if it follows an R.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
And the rules for that are sloppy. The rules for that are weird. Some of them change, some of them don't change.

Okay, here we go. So he just told you why Prakirti is called Prakirti.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Because it Prakaras.

[Speaker 2]
What is Prakarana?

[Speaker 1]
It makes so many things. It's hyperactive. It's a big doer.

It's a active doer. Rabtu. Yeah, it's a over-doer.

Yeah, or a super-doer. You make a mean tea. Would you like sugar in it?

No, I don't have sugar in it. Okay. GNAS SKABS GANG ZHIG TU RAB TU CHEN NA Now, now you get into you know, what the hell is going on with all these tantras?

Why we got to talk about tantras to reach nirvana? And I love this discussion. It made me so happy.

I was dancing around the kitchen. It might have had something to do with the ice cream. GNAS SKABS GANG ZHIG TU RAB TU CHEN NA Well, when does it RAB TU CHE?

When does it overdo? When is it so active? When does it get so active?

When does Prakirti get so active? Well, when SKYE BA BDOD PA MTHONG BA'I DU SO When it observes the desires of the purusha. When purusha is like crying like a certain baby and Prakirti is like mom and sees that purusha is crying for something then Prakirti wakes up.

Nature does something when purusha needs something. And it personifies it. Because he used the verb MTHONG MTHONG When Prakirti sees that purusha needs something Prakirti moves.

So now I like it because we're getting some action between them. It's not just a list of 25 things and now let's go on to the next thing. And there's going to be this whole relationship between them.

Which is part of the Sankhya system but it's not elucidated in this way I think. But I haven't studied all the Sankhya books. KANG RGYUD TSE GYI'I BU LA BRAL DO SOGS BU YOD NIR BA LONGS SPYOD PA'I RNAMS PA CHEN GYI BSTOD PAR BSKYED PA When the...

Okay, KANG RGYUD TSE means when the... and it's connected with DE TSE. So in Tibetan you say at the time, when the time.

In English we just say when. At the point or at a point or at a time when what? Purusha is wanting DOD PA to have an experience of an object such as sound.

So Purusha is like, I want to hear a song mom. I need a sound. I yearn to hear a sound.

Got it? When Purusha, capital P, when person wants to hear a sound, when it looks like he wants to hear a sound, RNAMS PA CHEN, when he takes on a look of wanting something in which he seems to would like, seems that he would like to experience an object such as sound, then DE TSE SKYES BU'I DUS PA YONGS SU ZHES PA'I Then Prakrti grasps totally what Purusha wants. SKYES BU'I DUS PA YONGS SU ZHES PA Prakrti is totally sensitive to what Purusha wants.

Not just sensitive. YONGS SU ZHES PA grasps, thoroughly grasps what Purusha wants. And SKYES BU'I DUS PA YONGS SU ZHES Then, this is cool, then Prakrti will join with Purusha.

They will link up. And then he will give him a sound. Purusha, sorry, Prakrti will give Purusha a sound.

Or they will meet each other. They will make contact and Prakrti will supply the sound that Purusha wanted. Okay.

Now it gets more complicated. And I remember Swamiji talking about this kind of stuff. How Prakrti supplies the sound to Purusha?

DE LA TSUL NI DI YIN TE I'll tell you how it goes, how it happens. I'll tell you the process. TSUL here means process.

I'll tell you the process of how this happens. RANG BZHIN produces a chenpo.

[Speaker 2]
A mahat. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Prakrti first produces a mahat. A mahat. Mahat.

Or lo, buddhi. Prakrti produces mind. In Tibetan terms, lo.

Okay. And from that comes ahankara. Okay.

Yeah, ego is not a bad translation. It's a good translation. We looked it up in the Tibetan and the Tibetan stretched it out to ego which is grasping to an eye.

Okay. So from that comes nga gyel. That ahankara.

From that comes the group of the sixteen. You tell me the sixteen. We had it.

The ten matras. Yeah, okay. I'll take the ten matras.

So we got five ten matras and now we need eleven more. The mahabuddhas are going to come later. Now, you got to give me the indriyas.

I think.

[Speaker 2]
I'm thinking.

[Speaker 1]
Six mental indriyas. Manendriya. And then we need five dual indriyas.

Karmendriya. That's the ten matras. No, the legs.

What's mouth in there? What's mouth in there? Mouth, arms, legs, bunghole, clipper and the sexual organ.

Okay, so five karmendriyas and six manendriyas makes eleven. And add the five tan matras but not yet the five mahabuddhas. You got sixteen.

No, mahabuddhas coming later. Which one? No, that's that's a that's buddhi, sorry, not buddha.

Okay, buddhi is mine. Buddha is elements. Okay, it's getting complicated, right?

It's kind of sexy. So, the sixteen come from ahankara which came from mahant which came from prakirti. Okay.

Now, what's going to happen after the sixteen? That's almost, you know, you can guess.

[Speaker 2]
The jungwas. The mahabuddhas.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, the mahabuddhas. Those five.

[Speaker 2]
And from the five comes Oh, yeah. Something's wrong here.

[Speaker 1]
There's something wrong with the Tibetan here. Anyway, he's saying those are the steps in the process. rimpa, right?

At the end. And the last part of the sentence is okay. From sound and the rest come the five elements.

Okay. Oh, okay. I got it.

It's in a positive. So that ni stops the process. That's the end of his description of the process.

Then he's saying there's that text that says from the five, comma, meaning from sound and the rest, comes the five elements. Okay, that's all. He's just clarifying the last two steps of the process.

Maybe because it seems so counterintuitive that the tanmatras, which are already products of the elements, should produce the elements. You see, that's kind of the reverse of what you'd say in his text, that the elements underpin sound and the rest. Because in this progression the outer objects produce the elements in the progression.

And then he seems to be trying to justify it by quoting somebody who said that. From the five, meaning from sound and the rest, come the five elements. Okay.

Now, what's it mean up above when it says I forget all these names. When it says that prakṛti is not an expression. Okay?

Vikāra. Yeah. What's it mean when you say prakṛti is not an expression?

Yeah. He doesn't qualify it. But probably the others are the others are expressions of prakṛti.

But what does it mean when you say prakṛti is not an expression? And we already had a clue in Gelong Sherwombo when he gave us a nice sentence about prakṛti and the namgyur, what did he say? Prakṛti refers to something and namgyur, an expression, refers to something.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, good.

[Speaker 1]
Nature implies cause and namgyur, or expression, implies result. So now he asked the question. Chandrakirti here, first line here.

What does it mean when we say nature, prakṛti, is not an expression? ,GZHAN BYANG NI, ,GANG GI PHYIR RAB TU PHYAD PAR KHO NA YIN GYI, ,TZAM PA LTAR NAM GYUR BA YANG NI MA YIN NO, What it's saying is that prakṛti, is only a rab tu phyad pa-er, only an overactive doer. Okay?

Kho na, only that. Kho na. It's only a doer.

And it is not like mahat and the rest, an expression. It's not like mahabuddhi and the other, how many were in his group? Seven.

The other six. Five tanmatras, ahamkāra, and buddhi. It's not like them.

Why? It's not an expression the way they are. That's what it means in the verse when it says prakṛti is only a hyperactive doer and not an expression.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, you guys okay?

[Speaker 1]
No, he doesn't talk about that. Another author clarified that what this is saying is that it's not a result. Which is to say, we were comparing it to the Christian idea of a God who is a doer but not a result.

No one made God. God only makes. Which in Buddhism is a contradiction of terms.

Okay, got it? chenpo la sopa de na re rab tu chepa yang yin la nam par gyuwa yang yin yang yin, yang yin in Tibetan means both A and B. yang yin, yang yin repeated means the two things before each one are A plus B.

Both A and B. He's a fool, yang yin, and an idiot, yang yin. Means he's both a fool and an idiot.

Okay, so they use a yang yin after each element. Okay, we just used one element between and also. Okay, got it?

Now, chenpo and the others, I assume in his group, ma hat, meaning buddhi, and the others in his group, okay, do you need something to drink? Okay, ma hat and the other ones in his group are both rab tu chepa and number gyurwa.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, they make stuff and are made by stuff.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, they are both causes and results. Meaning, they are both very productive, and that might be a good translation for number gyurwa rab tu chepa. They are both very productive and they are also expressions.

And we were saying earlier today that in Buddhism, expression is an unusual but allowable synonym for result. de chen, chenpo la sopa du rang shing nam gyur shing she may te That's why the root text says, because the root text is confusing. The root text of the sankhyas just says buddhi and his group are prakirti vikaras.

It doesn't say and. Okay, so, chandrakirti, gelong sherung wangpo, they both clarified that because they cut it short because of metrical reasons. They said prakirti vikara.

They didn't say and. So, this is a... He's clarifying buddhi and the other six, which is ahamkara plus the tan mantra, is both.

Is both prakirti and is expression. Okay, got it. Cool.

Now he says something really radical. It's sexy. If you're going to teach this to...

I have this fantasy of him teaching in the Bahamas because you don't have to say something like, I'm going to teach you what sankhya really means. You can say, are you interested in what sankhya meant in Buddhism 1300 years ago? I think that would be such a fascinating lecture if I had spent a lot of time on this island studying sankhya.

I would be interested to hear what the Buddhists thought sankhya was. Because it might be wrong, but I might get some extra insights into my own school. So, I wouldn't set it up as a conflict.

I'd say, you can learn more about sankhya from what people thought, how it was reported by the Buddhists, which could be wrong. But it's more interesting. I like to say it enrichens.

[Speaker 2]
It enriches.

[Speaker 1]
It enriches your appreciation of sankhya. Okay, here we go. Now, this is cool.

RANG GI RNAM GYIR LA BSTOD NAS Relative to their own results, these results are prakirti. And relative to prakirti, these results are results. Relative to their own results, since these buddhi and the other six have their own expressions, you can call them mini prakirtis.

Yeah. No, well, we have to say prakirti. But relative to mama prakirti, they are expressions.

That's why we can say they are both prakirti and expressions.

[Speaker 2]
So that's more comfortable.

[Speaker 1]
That's a nice clarification. Yeah, that's true too. That's true too.

The rest only get to be expressions and not prakirtis because we don't talk about what they produce. Yeah, well, that's pretty cool. That's pretty cool.

The clue of why the one move doesn't include a negative might be in there. I'll give you a clue. BSTOD NAS The important word here is DGOS PA.

What do you call that in English? Qualified? You want to say crucial, but it's not crucial.

It means relevant, but it's not relevant. It's not relevant. The blank word here, it means the crucial word here or the relevant word here.

The word on which this phrase turns is... It's not correct. Operative word here is DGOS PA.

L-T-O-S It means relative to. We had it in DU GRUB which Sugeng is going to tell me what it is. DU GRUB DU GRUB DU GRUB DEFINITION OF DEFINITION OF Are you asleep back there?

DEFINITION OF DEPENDENT ORIGINATION Oh, that's right. The short definition is anything that occurs in reliance. Thank God.

He was probably just making us feel good. That was nice of you. So here, this is DU in the sense of dependent or lean on or rely on.

Relative to. Relative to their own. Relative to their own expressions.

You can think of them as a pakirti. But, LA Relative to pakirti, we have to say they are expressions. That's why we can say they're both pakirti and expressions.

That's really nice.

[Speaker 2]
Four minutes.

[Speaker 1]
What? We just started. LO YI DBANG PO LA SOGS PA Now, be careful.

We're not talking about LO. We're talking about LO YI DBANG PO. The indriyas of manas.

As opposed to?

[Speaker 2]
Karmendriya.

[Speaker 1]
But also as opposed to buddhi. Yeah, okay. We're talking about the sense powers and we're not talking about the powers of the things of the body which perform a function.

Like poopooing. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Not like the power of buddhi.

[Speaker 1]
Right, right. It could be misread here. It could have been misread here.

It's manendriya. It's manas indriya. And it's not the wangpo of the buddhi.

Okay, good. Because it's the sixteen. The sixteen that include the manendriyas.

Manendriyas, okay? They are only namgyurs.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Right.

[Speaker 1]
Which gotta imply that they are not prakirtis. Although nobody has said it yet. If you say it's only namgyurs, then in no sense are they prakirtis.

Either mama prakirti or little prakirtis on their own. Yeah, now we can go back and say there's a real shi musim going on here. de cher That's why the verse says the sixteen are namgyurs.

He's just referring back to the verse. Then, now, tricky. The word ni in the Tibetan, go back to the text.

Here's the verb. The sixteen, ni, right here. Now the sixteen, that ni, which in Sanskrit, I don't remember what it is.

Yeah, iti.

[Speaker 2]
It's probably iti.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, right. Why do we say iti in the verse about sound and the others? It's to indicate, ngepar sungwa means to nail down.

It's to clarify that they are only namgyurs. So we can add not prakirtis. The sixteen.

Sound and the others. Yes. Yeah, so it's safe to call it a mu shi musim.

I'm going to go one more line. And then, by the way, next time we'll get the exciting story of how do you get nirvana out of all this? And how does that tie into prakirti supplying baby purusha with the sound that it wanted to hear?

How in that process do we come up with moksha? And he's going to go into it. It's kind of cool.

Yeah, it's a good carrot. Tune in next week. But let's finish this brief clarification of the fourth line, of the last line.

SKYES BU NI, now purusha is, here's a yang mayin and a yang mayin. It's the same as yang nyen and yang nyen. It is neither blot nor dot.

You see? Yang mayin, yang mayin instead of yang nyen, yang nyen. Okay, purusha is neither rab tu chepa.

Yeah, what do we call it? Extremely productive. It's neither extremely productive, nor is it an expression.

SHES MA BA NI To say that, the verse says purusha is neither prakirti, is neither nature nor expression. He just says that's what the last line meant. Okay, he's just clarifying what the last...

So we've finished the four lines. We still want to see what's the interaction between purusha and prakirti. What's going to change that liberates me?

What am I supposed to do if I'm a sankhya and I want to get to moksha? What's got to happen between nature and person? Okay, and it's cool.

What's cool is they personify them. Purusha responds to prakirti and stuff like that. Is that Chandrakirti commenting on himself?

Yes, it is. And it goes on for a bit. It goes on that much.

It's the auto-commentary part. Yeah, it is. Yeah, yeah.

And Rinpoche taught it. Art, my enemy, nemesis, of which I was overcome with jealousy. Apparently he had read the whole Madhyamaka Avatara and the whole Gomadhamsa and asked Rinpoche to clarify these few pages.

And Rinpoche went to his house, which he never came to, and he... Well, that's a long story. But anyway, and he spent the whole day explaining Sankhya to us.

And I bet there's a recording of it.

[Speaker 2]
Maybe Art has it. Maybe.

[Speaker 1]
But that's the last time I heard about it. And that was 25 years ago. That's the last time I've heard this discussion.

I don't mind. You can just say Geshe Michael remembers that Rinpoche came over to your house to explain the Sankhya system. And I wondered if there's a recording.

And I doubt that he still has it.