Медитации на пустоту: объяснение шагов к пониманию того, что ничто не является самим собой, занятие 8

[Speaker 1]
It's always more work than it looks like. Oh yeah, it's a ton of work. It took me a really long time to build that.

I was learning as I was going. That's a Momo problem. What's Penny's wife's name?

Penny's wife?

[Speaker 2]
Carmen.

[Speaker 1]
She made me... That's like learning to make Indian chai, right? Is it great, right?

It was fine. It's not as good as yours. Okay, you guys ready?

Can you sashimi? Or you can sushi me?

[Speaker 2]
DRO-LA PHEN-CHE SANG-YE DROOPAR SHOK SANG-YE DROOPAR SHOK CHOD RANG SOG GI CHOD NAM LA CHANG CHU BAR DU DAG NI GYAB SU CHI DAG GI CHEN YEN GYI PASENAM GI DRO-LA PHEN-CHE SANG-YE DROOPAR SHOK SANG-YE DROOPAR SHOK CHOD RANG SOG GI CHOD NAM LA CHANG CHU BAR DU DAG NI GYAB SU CHI DAG GI CHEN YEN GYI PASENAM GI DRO-LA PHEN-CHE SANG-YE DROOPAR SHOK All right then.

[Speaker 1]
So I worked a lot of hours on your guy's stuff and I ignored the Downster people's stuff. So I'm going to suffer. I'll suffer today Downster.

Okay, here we go. Let's read the last sentence from the last time because it's so cool. Because we finally saw somebody explain substantial.

That's always problematical in every school. What does substantial mean? And everybody has a different idea.

And this one's a pretty good one. DE NA BYAS KUL THAG Would you like to read? You open it?

[Speaker 2]
DE NA BYAS KUL THAG KUN GOS DANG TSAN NYID MI THUN PAR RANG BZHAG GZUGS PAR NAM LA DE BZHIN DU YOD PAR GZHAN DBANG YID RJES SU YI LHAG CING Okay, so what does it mean to hold that something is substantial?

[Speaker 1]
Like a jay and a kulbu. Jay and a kulbu. By the way, I've never seen the word kulbu anywhere else.

It's not very common. Like a master and a servant. KUN GOS DANG TSAN NYID MI THUN PAR There seems to be a me or a self or an owner, a driver, who is basically different from the parts.

Like it's somehow standing above the parts and not in the parts. Something like that. RANG RGYAS GZUGS PAR NAM LA It appears to be self-standing.

And to believe GZHAN BA We had SNGON PAR GZHAN BA right? Before. To strongly believe that.

GZHAN BA also means to have a crush on somebody or something like that. So it's... DE BZHIN DU YOD PAR GZHAN BA And to believe that it exists that way.

That's what it is to hold that things are substantial. So take out the believe and take out the ZIN and you have a definition of substantial. Geshe-la, is the DANG TSAN NYID the syntax?

There are like different five definitions on the leaves? Yeah, from. Yeah.

VAN So DANG is a problematic one. DE'I SKAGS PA NA Please read.

[Speaker 2]
DE'I SKAGS PA NA GANG ZAG GI KUNG PO LA THAG PA ZANG GI GYUR TE ZANG GI NI KUNG PO LAS DON GZHAN DU YOD PAR GZHAN DU Okay, good.

[Speaker 1]
By the way, that GZHAN DANG indicates this whole last part was a quotation. I went and got it for you. It's pretty...

It's pretty correct. I don't remember any big problems with it. DE'I SKAGS PA NA That's a verb from GOG or GARG.

And then again you use the first column for a more typical GZHAN DU YOD PAR, more active, more agentive verb. DE'I SKAGS PA NA If you shut that down. By the way, verb to verb translation is difficult.

English is very rich in two-word verbs. Go over means to review. Go in means to enter.

Go out means to leave. Go around means to avoid. Go away means...

English is very rich in two-word verbs. They don't appear in thesauruses often because they're two words, which is ridiculous. DE'I SKAGS PA NA And don't get me on the subject of using thesaurus.

Thesaurus should be used to confirm a word that you remember but you can't quite... It's like here on the tip of your tongue and you can't quite remember it. But don't go fishing for synonyms in thesaurus.

If it's not close enough to the surface of your mind to almost remember, you don't know how to use it properly. I've read translations that just sound like someone was using a thesaurus all day. There was no unifying flow to it because it's not their vocabulary.

They're just picking words out of a thesaurus. And you can smell it. And it's not good writing.

So use words that you are familiar with rather than trying to use a word you're not familiar with. If you want to improve your vocabulary, read lots of science fiction. I mean good science fiction.

Just kidding. You can read anything. Read a lot.

But don't try to find a word in it. Unless you can't remember... I use it once a day, a thesaurus, because I almost remember a word.

There's a word I want but I can't remember what it is. So I'll use a thesaurus. Huh?

Thesaurus? It's a synonym dictionary. I'll show you the one I use.

It's called thesaurus.com.

[Speaker 2]
It's good. I love it. I use thesaurus.com all the time.

[Speaker 1]
This is a good one. Google built one into Chrome, but it's not as good.

[Speaker 2]
So we can see. It's such a good site. It's so helpful.

[Speaker 1]
When the internet's working. So these are words for deny, which is gak, right? So what I'm saying is, don't use this.

Use the words you know. Unless you almost can remember a word, but you can't quite remember a word. Because you're going to end up with begrudges and stuff like that.

[Speaker 2]
I use the hell out of this, but I'm always looking for a simpler word.

[Speaker 1]
Then you got antonyms, which are opposite words. Then you have dimly related words.

[Speaker 2]
Dimly.

[Speaker 1]
And it's useful. It's useful. But what I'm saying is, don't overuse it.

Because it will sound artificial. I had to edit someone's writing, who was mostly thesaurus, and it was very irritating. Use words that you know.

Okay. DE'I SKABS PA'I GNAR GANG ZAG Especially our Mixed Nuts translation style, we are seeking to please the waiters of the world. We're seeking to communicate.

That's a great thing about DCI. We don't go over the normal vocabulary of a normal person. And you will find the greater the writer, the closer they come to...

Excuse me, but common parlance. The speech of the world. The way the world talks.

Nagarjuna. Nagarjuna's vocabulary is very, very limited. And he's the greatest writer from India.

And that's why he has survived. DE'I SKABS PA'I GNAR GANG ZAG DE'I PHUNG PO LA LTA BU TZAM GYI RGYUR TE If you cancel this idea of substantial, what you'll end up with, RGYUR, is that the person is nothing more than TZAM. The person is nothing more than a label put onto the body and mind.

The person is nothing more than... And this word TZAM is often used in Majjhimika. Just that.

Only that. MING DE LTAR TZAM Yeah, MING DE LTAR TZAM is the most famous one. Just labeled with names and terms.

But in that famous description of how things are labeled, the word DA, B-R-D-A, which is a rare word, refers to the image coming out of the karmic seed. It doesn't mean term. Because otherwise the word is weird.

Names and terms. What's the difference? So the term means the picture coming out of your mind.

The archetype picture. Coming out of the karma. Now, I love this because he's going to explain what the TZAM means.

And I've never seen anyone do that. So this is very valuable. TZAM GYI The word TZAM functions.

TZAM GYI To CHOS means disallow. Disallow. Like Dorje Chokpay's Vajrachirika, right?

Cut. Cut. So it means cut out the possibility.

What do you call that? Disallow the possibility. That the me could be something other than the body and mind.

Could be a separate object from the body and mind. DON GZHAN Okay, so you have to... I can see Jigme is making a face.

No, that's because you're thinking about it. I mean, I hope so. Or your pants are too tight.

I don't know. But... I'm just kidding.

No, I was hoping you weren't making a face because it's not an easy statement. It's not an easy statement. When he says, if you can shut down the wrong idea, you will come to the idea that the person is nothing more than a label put on the body and mind.

And then nothing more than is meant to deny or disallow the idea that the me could be some other thing than the body and mind. So that's the reason for TZAM. Yeah, and you got to chew on what's the difference between being labeled on the body and mind and being something other than the body and mind.

Because that's what the TZAM is meant to disallow. Oh, that's tough. It's tough, yeah.

I mean, if you're not making a face right now, you're not thinking about it. You're waiting for me to go on. So am I.

[Speaker 2]
What it is that it's not the case and then said you're wrong if you think it's something other than the body and mind. That's tough. It's a kind of middle way thing.

[Speaker 1]
No, this is more the idea of a soul. Something like separate from the body and mind, a crystalline little thing inside your heart that goes on after you die. That's the real Nick.

And then this one is, Nick is the result of a picture coming out of his mind and overlaid upon the body and mind.

[Speaker 2]
It has to be on the human species. It has to be from above.

[Speaker 1]
So it's not disassociated from the body and mind. It's a different way of looking at the body and mind. It's dependent on the body and mind.

Excuse me? Well, is pen dependent on the parts of the pen? No.

When you say the pen comes from me... I love DCI is very clear about this point. I shared pens in the past.

Then I planted a pen karmic seed in my mind. Then I came in the room, I looked at these two parts and they're not a pen yet. And then the karmic seed opened and a picture of a pen came out.

Luminous image came out. And you can see that luminous image if you meditate a lot. You can see yourself doing it.

But it takes a lot of meditation. And then it comes out and it overlays on the pen and I see a pen. And the dog has a different overlay.

I think that's so clear. So that's what this is saying. When we say labeled, we mean the picture that came out of the karmic seed has been overlaid on the pen.

Okay? Oh yeah, yeah, I was waiting for someone to go there. We don't differentiate between lower and higher middle way until we ask about the status of the raw data.

Until the next question comes. Is this a result of a... Are the parts a result of a karmic seed opening and parts coming out?

Or were they there all the time and you came along and put a label on them? What's the status of the raw data? It's the top of the pen cap and the bottom of the pen cap.

I believe they would answer, if I was going to sit in their shoes, I would say, when you came in the room, it was there. Something had to be there. Otherwise, anything could turn into a pen.

So ultimately they were asserting atoms, right? That's another point. But what I'm saying is, they're saying something was there when you walked in the room.

[Speaker 2]
The bubbla is vital here for them, right?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, they think the pumbas are not coming from the tabla. In that moment. Maybe in the moment before, I don't know.

But it's not a crazy thing. They say the magician needs a stick to work with. Alright, so I went and got you down and it's in your text.

[Speaker 2]
So when you said, nothing wants me to... that me could be some other thing. Is it the gongsak that applies to both phrases?

[Speaker 1]
Yes, it is. You're correct. He didn't repeat the word gongsak.

He could have. He could have said, tsam gyi gongsak de, phunpo le dun shen du yurpa chudok. He could have put it that way.

But being Tsongkapa, he wanted to make it difficult for you. de shin du, dong tun, de dun mun sel sok le kyang she do. We see the same explanation in books like dong tun...

Yeah, khyel sa mik je is the technical name, Opening the Eyes of the Fortunate Ones. The name by which the book is known by everybody is dong tun chen mo. And we looked it up and found other dong tuns.

So it's the great dong tun, meaning the great... There are other ones? What's a great desire?

It is a genre. We established that one day. We worked on it for hours.

I don't want to do it again, but... Apparently it's a genre. Oh, a touch of dependence.

The guy's drop antenna sticks in your head, right? It's a good title from that point of view. What did we call it?

Interlude or something.

[Speaker 2]
Oh yeah.

[Speaker 1]
It means an interlude. And then, de dun ye kyi mun sel, Clearing Away the Darkness of the Mind About the Seven Books of Logic, by K. Dubje.

I keep hitting that book when I'm looking for stuff. I keep hitting that book. So if we get, you know, a logic-minded mixed nuts in the future, or Adam finishes his book.

Where is Adam? He's confused. Maybe he went to the bathroom.

[Speaker 2]
Is there a version that you prefer of the two that you read?

[Speaker 1]
gyal sang mi kyi? dong tun chen mo. No, I haven't studied the question.

I always prefer a carving. Because typing is, it's going to be as bad as our typing. Okay.

de na, gang sang rang gyu tupay dze yul, nyi dzin pa'i tokpa de. By the way, the status of our typing is supposed to be that it matches the, it matches the carving. And it doesn't have any disallowed syllables.

But, we don't, we have never been able to afford or find editors to manually read all the millions of pages. We just, all the geshes are overworked in the monastery. Because there's a brain drain.

The good ones go to Australia. And they go teach three people in somebody's house because they don't want to live in India. Which I can't blame them, but, but then there's very few qualified teachers in the monastery.

As soon as you become a geshe, it's a ticket out. And very few geshes stay in India on principle. So anyway, recently we made contact with a group of scholars who would like to be editors for us who can't get tickets out.

So, and they're not teaching in the monastery. So, it looks like a good arrangement. So they can start manual, but millions of pages, it will take many years.

But just so you know the status, we don't even attempt, we tell the input operator, just type what you see. Don't think about it. Don't try to fix anything.

Because that would be a disaster. They're not geshes. They're not even monks.

They don't know how to read. They can't read these books. So to have them correcting things would be a disaster.

Better that they are just like Xerox machines. They just type what's there. The goal is to get them to type what's there and not change anything.

Even if it's wrong. Because we don't want them thinking about changing things. Like, they're going to change RGYAL to RGYAL in every single case.

And it would be wrong. So, so that's why you find errors in our stuff. Some of it's just mistakes.

They typed the wrong thing. They had a bad day. We type everything twice.

Everything. Whole thing twice. Two different people type it.

Then somebody compares the two on a special program and checks differences. And then another person does that again. And then a third checker checks the two checkers.

And so the theory was we'll get the block. Whether the block is right or wrong, or whether it was clear or not, that's another question. But to be honest, we don't always get the block.

We get lots of errors that are not in the block. And that's just, you know, you should try typing Tibetan for eight hours. And it just fries your mind, you know.

I mean, they're good at it. They've been doing it. In some cases, the daughter is working next to the mother now.

And they had their kids after they started working for us. It's been 31 years. So in a lot of, there's many cases where the daughter is working with the mother.

So anyway, they're good, but they're not perfect. We're working on OCR, but I'm not anxious. It takes a lot of correcting.

And that requires more skilled labor. The theory of our project is unskilled labor for minimum cost for 31 years. So anyway, DE NA GANG ZAG RANG GI THUB PA'I MDZAD YOD DI RDZIN PA'I RTOG PA STE Therefore, this RTOG PA with no S.

Yeah, this idea, or this wrong idea, which holds that the person is self-standing. Yeah, I'm sorry, substantial in the sense of self-standing. I'll kiss you, but you're too far away.

GANG ZAG DE RANG GI PHUNG PO LA RTOG PA'I CHOS SU MIN DZIN PAR GANG ZAG DE RANG GI PHUNG PO LA RTOG PA'I CHOS SU MIN DZIN PAR It doesn't hold that the person is a thing which has been labeled on the body and mind. By the way, RTOG PA'I CHOS, we had it before. It's the result of the RTOG PA'I.

Okay? The labeled thing is the result. The cup is the labeled thing.

The RDOG RJE is my mind. Yeah, the RDOG RJE. So RTOG PA'I CHOS is sometimes treated as one term in idiom, meaning the labeled thing.

Meaning the resulting, the result of the labeling. The thing that results from the labeling, which implies a finished existing thing. Just so you're sensitive to that point, it implies a finished thing.

Now it's a thing. The seed opened because I shared coffee in the past. Ben Gomi brought all the parts.

And then my seed opened and put a picture on the coffee cup. It was this one, I think. I do need two today, so that was a good one.

So now it's a finished thing. So sometimes RTOG PA'I CHOS kind of feels like in Madhyamaka, finished thing. The thing I came out with.

After all this doking and parting, then finally I have a coffee cup.

[Speaker 2]
RTOG PA'I CHOS So is that RTOG in the past tense?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, past tense. It has been doked. Generally, whenever you have a GS, you're working with a past tense.

Anything, any suffix letter that can take a secondary suffix letter S, you're in the past tense. Normally. There's exceptions, I think.

Okay, so rather than holding it as a finished labeled thing that was overlaid onto the body and mind. DE'I PHUNG PO LA BAR MI LTOS PA We need the verb LTOS. And this spelling, this is the same as B-R-T-E-N.

[Speaker 2]
To rely on.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, to rely on. LTOS GRUB or B-R-T-E-N GRUB are synonyms for dependence. Dependent origination.

You can say LTOS NAS GRUB PA. I believe LTOS NAS GRUB is the definition of B-R-T-E-N GRUB PA. The definition of dependence is reliance.

You can say reliance. Use a different verb here, in English. It's related to the verb to look at or to view.

L-T-O And it means, I'm looking to you for help. That means I rely on you. So this ancient word for rely has the root of to look.

I'm looking for you. I'm looking to you for help. Okay, so DE'I PHUNG PO LA BAR MI LTOS PA'I DBANG RGYUR BA BYAS BA LTA BU Without understanding, without holding, without believing in this labeled thing, rather the mind views the person as being like a BYAS BA, a driver, a boss.

It means a big boss. Lord. Meaning, what's the difference?

Master and servant. Yeah, master has that nice feeling in English, like the master control switch or something. Okay, so the master, DBANG RGYUR BA means who has authority over, or who has power over.

It means power change. But the meaning, it's an idiom, it means to have control over. To be the driver of.

What? It's the same as driver, which doesn't depend, PAR is PAR ROL TU. It doesn't depend that way.

Now, that's a MA YIN GANG. The boss doesn't depend on the parts, but the parts depend on the boss. He's going to say that.

He's going to say that. My soul can live without my body and mind, but without me, who's going to drive it? You see what I mean?

So, PAR MI STOD TSUL STOD TSUL means this way.

[Speaker 2]
Right?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, PAR and STOD are opposites. Okay, what's a TSUL STONG? Yeah, there's a verb, there's a noun for a person who doesn't understand the pen.

There's a separate word. The person, it's called TSUL STONG. STONG means to see.

TSUL means coming this way. And that's a synonym for a non-ayah. It's a beautiful word.

TSUL STONG And in the word it gives you the meaning of a non-ayah. They believe the world is coming this way. But here we're not talking about that.

We're talking about the parts and the whole. The master and the car. The car doesn't depend on the master.

Sorry. The master doesn't depend on the car. The master can live without the car.

But the car, it's not going to get maintained like mine is today by Vimala, without the master, or the master's assistant. Okay, got it? There's a TSUL STOD, but there's no PHAR STOD.

Got it? Okay. It's a nice point.

It's a nice point. So, without understanding how it really works, this labeling stuff, it believes there's a boss who's in charge, who doesn't depend that way on the body and mind. And, it believes that there's something like a servant who does depend this way.

Who depends... What's this DE? Those parts?

No, it feels like that, and you're wrong. And I took it that way the first time I saw it. Just so you know you're not crazy.

[Speaker 2]
So, it must be the boss.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, good. That's the boss. The parts do depend this way on the boss.

The boss doesn't depend that way on the parts. The boss can live without the car, but the car can't survive without the boss. And the car is your body and mind.

Okay? DE LA TSUL STOD PA'I KHUL BU LTA BUR DBANG RGYUR BYA Future tense.

[Speaker 2]
Will control.

[Speaker 1]
No, it makes it a noun. Like, dul ja. Dul ja.

The cycle. The thing to be tamed. The thing to be tamed.

Yeah, the thing to be controlled is the parts, body and mind. KHUL BU The servant. Okay?

Is the thing to be controlled. To hold that to be the thing to be controlled is how this state of mind holds things. Meaning, GANG ZAG GIS BDANGS CAN In this school, it takes the self to be substantial.

You want to know what that means? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay?

Believes in a driver of the crane. And the crane depends on the driver, but the driver doesn't depend on the crane. The driver could go on to another crane.

And they do. But is the definition of substantial in the sense of being self-standing or something?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. So that's a... I mean, that's a very, very beautiful sentence.

If you can get that right, that's a whole class right there. You could give a nice talk about that. Just from that one sentence.

Do you have any idea of using words other than master and servant because I find them so repugnant? Repugnant means distasteful. Not very nice.

Because in America, the idea of a servant is not very nice. My grandmother had a servant. It was unpleasant.

Black servants. I don't know. You think about it.

It is exactly that though. I'm sorry. You could say driver and car.

You work on it. You can update it. Boss and employee.

Yeah, boss and employee. That might be okay. That might be okay.

I would buy that. Boss and employee. The word employee is distasteful also.

That which is to be used. She wants to do it Lama and attendant.

[Speaker 2]
No. I like that.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Master and slave.

[Speaker 2]
Please read.

[Speaker 1]
By the way, there are words for slave. It's not quite slave. It is master and servant.

Okay, go.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Yeah, good.

[Speaker 1]
Now, he's drawing the following distinction. Okay, and we'll get to the wording. But it's not easy.

In your heart,