Вступление на срединный путь (текущий курс, Аризона), занятие 22

[Speaker 1]
Okay, we'll start. By the way, I really liked the debate. It was good.

The debating is really good. So it really will help you. So please come.

Like, there's guys in the monastery who just chicken out after a while, and they don't want to come because they don't want to look like they don't know it, or they don't feel comfortable not knowing something. But you come to the debate ground when you don't know something, right? That's why you come to the debate ground.

So don't avoid it. It's something like Sunday night kirtan, you know? You avoid it, and then afterwards you feel so good.

You know what I mean? So... We always argue before that, and then afterwards we're like, oh yeah.

So just come. It's really good for you. It's really good.

People are doing really well. I'm really happy with the debates. It's really good.

Okay, let's read together. You ready? On the count of three.

One, two, three. CANG SEM GYI THEG CHEN GYI LAM DRE BU DANG CHEG PA DE SHIN CHEG PA LA NYE NE SHEN LA DUNG PA YOD KYANG THOD ROG PA MING GYUR DE. He's like this, right?

DE. And then there's going to be a what? DE.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So this is just the assertion, right? You'll often find in a debate ground that you anticipate what's coming next.

If you debate something for a couple of hours, then you start coming up with issues that are going to show up in the next class. Because that's the logic of it, you know what I mean? So we were, in the debate ground, we were trying to find exceptions.

Do you have to be lower track to be a listener, right? And then obviously you don't. So then people were asking, well, what about bodhisattvas who listen and go proclaim it to somebody else?

Are they listeners? Are they nyantas? Okay, got it?

Rinpoche would say, nod your head.

[Speaker 2]
Where?

[Speaker 1]
Where?

[Speaker 2]
Oh, okay.

[Speaker 1]
That's why he didn't nod. Oh, wait, there must be something else. Oh, yeah, I missed something here.

Okay, that's a little clearer. Okay. We'll do this whole thing.

[Speaker 2]
Rinpoche, could you please follow up so I could just sit in my head and teach my people?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, otherwise it doesn't make much sense, right? Let's just do this piece. Ready?

One, two, three. Nyan-tö-ki-shen-la-dro-pa-tsang Ying-ki-rang-ni-ki-je-su-tön-pa-tsang Yang-yang-nyam-su-lam-mi-nü-be-be Okay, okay. Okay, make sense?

Did I miss a word? What did I miss?

[Speaker 2]
Oh, into? Into?

[Speaker 1]
Okay. He's a debater, right? He said proper.

Why? Yeah, yeah, I mean, maybe they try, you know? Maybe they hear something and they do a little bit of it, but they can't really do it right, you see?

He's just anticipating. He doesn't want to get some guy coming back to him in the debate ground and saying, Oh, you mean they don't do anything that they heard, you know? Like talking to others about what they heard?

You know, like that would be a good debate. Then you have to say, well, not really. I mean, yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Can normal people ever really put it into practice properly?

[Speaker 1]
Save it for the debate ground, honey. Okay, let's go. I'm sorry, I'm in a mood today.

It's the 30th, okay? In the desert, it's very strong. The black moon, yeah.

Everybody should have an argument today. Okay, here we go. Okay, if you already had one, that's okay.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, we're supposed to read it.

[Speaker 1]
Hang on. One, two, three. Back here, okay?

Don't do this.

[Speaker 2]
Alexander's never going to look back. Now, here's a tough thing, and I never did get this.

[Speaker 1]
I mean, I never found an English word. It was tough. We debated this for like a month.

There's two ideas. Say ngu min, which is on the first line, and tag min, which is on the last line, okay? So say ngu min, tag min.

Tag min means, even nowadays, the word nickname in Tibetan is ming do, say ming do, which means a falsely applied name in a way. You see what I mean? Like they call me Shingi Pakpa, which means Mr. Bark in the monastery. And I have other names, but I'm not going to tell you. But everybody gets it. Everyone gets bad names in the monastery.

It's just something they do. So that's a nickname, right? That's tag min.

And ngu min means actual name, I guess. Like, let's try actual name, but we need something more literary for nickname, as opposed to an actual name. It's like a pseudonym.

See how it comes in the sentence, okay? As such, the expression, one who listens and pretends not to hear, applies to them as an actual name, you see.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, now you've got to fill in the emphasis. What would you say just naturally, you see? Try to think of what you'd say naturally.

You're at the store in Moore, and you're trying to say something to somebody in normal English. I mean, that's what you've got to... Joe's his real name, but when we say, Joe brought me this, it's just...

Just call him that. Misnomer means... Technically, moniker is correct, but it's such unusual English that I wouldn't use it.

Technically, it's correct. Technically, it's accurate, but... How about in a something sense?

In a provisional sense? In a colloquial sense?

[Speaker 2]
In a... In a...

[Speaker 1]
Okay, is that clear? And only in so far, actually. Okay.

And it's a big deal when you get to emptiness and Cicada and all that, like... And in wizardry, what's the thing's real name? You know, what's the true name?

And then what are his other names or her other names, right? And you never tell your true name, right? So, I mean, Ngu-Ming is true name.

And then the other names are just like secondary names or something, you know? Okay. Informal names or something.

There's a big deal about real names, you know? Well, I'm missing something. Did I...

I think I erased something back then. Does it mean? It's Ka, K-H-A?

Okay. So, does the name listens and proclaims what they hear apply to a bodhisattva? He says yes, but only as an informal name and not as an actual name.

That has a lot of other implications, so I'm going to skip. Okay. All right.

Okay, here we go. Ready? One, two, three.

ka-chik chang-chu dham-pa she-pa te-chen-ki chang-chu dham chang-chu ni-pa te-men-ki chang-chu la-che-pa Now, some say that the expression highest enlightenment refers to the enlightenment of the greater way, whereas the second enlightenment mentioned refers to the enlightenment of the lower way. What's he talking about? I can see who's been studying the class between times.

Lotus Sutra. Go back to Lotus Sutra. Go back to the Lotus Sutra.

I'll go back to the Lotus Sutra. There. Here's the second one, right?

Okay? Got it? So, at this stage, we'll just pop things on you, like a page later, two pages later.

By the way, they don't tell you what they're talking about. You gotta go looking, okay? Okay?

So, somebody told the Buddha, we'll go proclaim the highest enlightenment. We will spread the word of this enlightenment. Okay?

So, some people in Tibet or some commentators have said these are two different enlightenments that they're talking about. One is the enlightenment of the greater way and one is the enlightenment of the lesser way. Is there an enlightenment of the lesser way?

Because there's not three Changchus? Yeah, yeah. Arhat, right?

Meaning the goal of the lower two tracks is called enlightenment, but it's not enlightenment. Okay? So, does it apply as a Lung Ming?

Does enlightenment apply to as a Lung Ming? Actually, you see, you can get into that. Or is it a Dag Ming?

Is it a kind of a misnomer or a moniker? You'd have to debate that in the debate ground. Okay?

That's an assignment. All right, let's go back here. Ready?

One, two, three. mi, te, te, Changchu, chi, ma, te, chen, gi, Changchu, tu, do, pa, che, pe, te, chen, gi, la, la, che, pe, che. Some people are still like this.

You can stalk the person behind you. It's okay. Okay, sorry.

Thanks. I know it's exciting.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, okay.

[Speaker 1]
I'm sure it's not the teacher.

[Speaker 2]
Ah, good.

[Speaker 1]
I mean, he's claiming that the Second Enlightenment is not the goal of the path, but the path itself. Let's go back and look. I'm just curious.

Does it still make sense if you read it that way? Okay, Bill. Let's go.

We will echo and spread the word of this Enlightenment. I don't know how he knew or how we're supposed to know. I don't know.

But, okay. There's probably a commentary somewhere. Ah, let him figure that stuff out.

I think that's what teachers are for. Now, I think some stuff that they could never figure out, some stuff that you could never remember when you re-teach it to others, which you're going to do, right? And not just as a Tudro.

That we should put in there. But stuff like that, I think you got to... You'll know.

I think you'll know. But I agree. Generally, we should help, but not too much help.

Oh, those who hear and proclaim. Okay. Which is a synonym for?

Nyanta. Jani. Okay.

Ready? One, two, three. Okay.

A deeper word for peace, meaning they've put an end to... You see, he's going to say... Now, a person of the Milchaku spires primarily to nyerwar shiwa, to reach the nyerwar shiwa nyershi, this deeper peace of deeper peace.

You see, nyerwar shiwa can mean a deep state of peace, meaning nirvana. But as a verb, it means to put something to rest. So, he's making a pun.

They want to reach the nyerwar shiwa, where they have nyerwar shiwad, their suffering. So, you help me. It's like the word for peace, but it has to be a verb and a noun.

It's like the rest or the put to rest. Or rest in peace there. The peace where they have rest in peace, their suffering.

You see what I mean? He's making a joke.

[Speaker 2]
What did you say?

[Speaker 1]
The tranquility where they have tranquilized their suffering. It has to be something like that. I mean, come up with something better.

[Speaker 2]
It doesn't sound like...

[Speaker 1]
It doesn't sound like a shot they give an animal. That deep... By the way, he didn't say shiwa.

He said nyer shiwa, right? Which means like the deep peace.

[Speaker 2]
The perfect peace where they perfectly pacify. You're getting there. You're getting there.

[Speaker 1]
Thoroughly pacify. I don't like thoroughly. How many times do you say thoroughly in a whole day?

Now a person in Milchak is going to...

[Speaker 2]
Perfectly pacify. Primarily perfectly pacify.

[Speaker 1]
I'm going to say... I'll tell you what.

[Speaker 2]
We don't have to make...

[Speaker 1]
Peaced. See? By the way, I don't mind...

We can kind of whip out and do something that's close to peace. I don't know. But...

It's not... Pacify doesn't mean that you've destroyed. You see, pacify...

Like in Vietnam it was used for... We talked the Viet Cong into being nice to us or something, you know. But what this...

This one means to destroy. It means to kill. I already did that to songs, but...

Let me think about that. But that implies... No, but subdue implies that they're still there, but now in a peaceful state.

This means they're just obliterated. Let me think. How about destroy?

No, because after you're pacified you're still alive, you see. This means like obliterated. Killed.

[Speaker 2]
Sorry.

[Speaker 1]
Maybe we can't really reflect that.

[Speaker 2]
Sound out. That doesn't sound right. You destroyed the truth.

Okay, anyway.

[Speaker 1]
Is that okay? It's a long sentence, but is it okay?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, it's good.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. They're just describing what a self-made Buddha is. How about destroyed the two truths?

He didn't say two. I know. It's much like we're destroying truth, which...

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, that's what bothers me.

[Speaker 1]
That's okay. Would that help? Would that help?

[Speaker 2]
T-W-O? I don't know what it is.

[Speaker 1]
It's still the same thing. Does that imply that you had to be a self-made Buddha in the fire truck? We're getting there.

It'll come. There's whole debates about self-made Buddhas coming up. You want to say destroyed the facts of suffering or the reality of suffering?

[Speaker 2]
But you don't destroy the truth. I think we can rearrange the words.

[Speaker 1]
No, because it's referring to two of the Four Noble Truths. You see? Whenever you say dukkhun, which is just half the word of suffering and half the word of source, it's dungyal denpa dang kunjung denpa.

The whole phrase is dungyal denpa dang kunjung denpa nyi. dungyal denpa dang kunjung denpa nyi. Ten syllables.

Ten different words, and they get it down to two halves of two words. Dukkhun. You see?

And you have to know it's a code word.

[Speaker 2]
Destroy the truth of suffering or destroy the facts of suffering?

[Speaker 1]
You want to say destroy the facts of?

[Speaker 2]
No.

[Speaker 1]
Let's just leave it. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Destroy the source of suffering.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Ready? If you always wondered why the hell they call themselves made-Buddhas, okay, this is where you get your answer.

Okay? And this is where I got it from for the ACI courses. One, two, three.

De-la-dir. Wait. Open syllable, open vowel and a prenasal.

Listen, listen. De-la-n-dir. De-la-n-dir.

There's an N. You hear it? De-la-n-dir.

If you say de-la-dir, it means he's stuttering. If you say de-la-n-dir, it means now here. Okay?

Got it? If you don't do it right, nobody will understand what you're saying. One, two, three.

De-la-n-dir. Sang-ye. Ring-she.

Che-pa-de-ya. Sang-ye-ki. Ke-tu.

Bud-da-she-pa-de. Okay. Sang-ye means bud-da.

Ring means mid-da. There's three lamrims by Je Tsongkhapa, right? Lamrim chen-mo, lamrim chung-wu, and lamrim ring, the middle length lamrim.

I don't think anyone's translated it yet. It'd be a nice project for somebody. Che-pa-de-ya.

Now, we learned ke-tu last time, and I think there's some I remember. Because I just specifically remember you looking at me doing that. Do you remember?

Yeah. It's the Sanskrit equivalent. It means the Sanskrit equivalent of a common Tibetan religious term.

Ke-tu. Ke means linguistic stand-in, literally. Ke-tu.

That's going to be a problem, right?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Or awaken one?

[Speaker 1]
You don't like that?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Oh, you think so? It makes it a little bit more obvious.

Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, right.

[Speaker 2]
So is it bring?

[Speaker 1]
It's pronounced bring. Yeah, it's spelled bring, and it's pronounced bring. Okay, here we go.

One, two, three. San-ge-pa, ben-ma-ge-pa, ni-se-pa, kon-tu-chu-pa-la-so-pa, du-ma-lan-juk-ching. Lan-juk, okay?

Lan-juk. Same thing. Open vowel, prenasal.

What's san-ge mean? Buddha. What's san-ge-pa?

To get enlightened. It's the verb. To buddhicise.

Okay? All right? Okay.

By the way, bad-ma in Sanskrit is pronounced in Tibetan, pe-ma. It's corrupted to pe-ma. Pe-ma.

Ge-pa. What's ni as opposed to ni? They call it ni.

Tomba-ni. What's the ni in tomba-ni? Ness.

Empty ness. It's da in Sanskrit, right? Shun-ye-da.

And that comes into English as shun, T-I-O-N. But ni means something else. Do you know?

Ni. With a high tone. See, listen to the low tone.

Ni. Tomba-ni means empty ness. But ni means something else.

To sleep. Sleep. Okay?

Sleep. And se-pa means to kill. Se-pa means to kill.

Se-pa. Which if you mispronounce it, se-pa, you're in trouble. Why?

Se means patience. You know, se-pa, lama se-pa. Right?

But if you call him lama se-pa, you know, no, then you're like saying, oh, he killed somebody. You see? You got to be careful, right?

Say se. Se. Se.

Se. Se. Se.

Okay. This is se. Se means to kill your sleep, which means to wake up.

[Speaker 2]
To wake up.

[Speaker 1]
We already had a now this, right? Give me a word that's clearly mentally grasping something.

[Speaker 2]
Understanding.

[Speaker 1]
But it's better than understanding. Give me a word for that.

[Speaker 2]
Realize.

[Speaker 1]
It's not as strong as realize. But it means to like, yeah, comprehend is great. Yeah.

Wow, nice. That's interesting. I always heard that, right?

And here he just says it, right? So buddha means becoming enlightened, opening a lotus, waking up from sleep and to comprehending something. There's this whole thing where bud probably comes from vid and vid means to know, to see, like video, and like that.

They're all related. Budd vid and bud. Yeah.

Well, he's actually talking about the ching. The ching means the root. And the root bud means to wake up or to open as a flower opens or to understand something thoroughly.

He's referring to the root. But he didn't say that, so I don't want to put words in his mouth. But that's what he's talking about.

Yeah. On purpose, why? Yeah, now we're just talking about the general root bud which can mean all those things.

I think I'll take this off. I kind of prefer to do this because it gets kind of complicated. Here we go.

One, two, three. De, den, du, tat, wa, nen, pe, de, ko, na, ni, ko, du, chu, pa, la, ju, pe. Okay.

What's tatwa in Sanskrit? Tatwa. It means like it's like the nature of something.

It's the thusness. Thusness. Like that.

And he's misspelled it. Okay. It's tatwa.

Double T. But it's an accepted corruption. Okay.

Like sometimes something gets corrupted so often that people just decide let's let it go. You know. Okay.

And so I'm not going to correct it. Okay. Now, do you say anything to your readers who think you don't know Sanskrit if you don't correct it?

I don't know. Some people put sick and I think that's kind of condescending to a Lama. You know what I mean?

Let's go see if anyone else ever spelled it with two Ts. And then we feel kind of better to correct it for him. Okay.

You want to do that? Let's do that. That's sort of a middle way.

Pungsumba. Pungsumba. Let's see if anybody else said tatwa.

Those of you who know the Dainichushi, where is that? The 14 tatwas. See, sometimes tatwa can mean a category.

It's in the Vajrayogini Nespa. Yeah. It's 14.

It's 14 subjects of the Vajrayogini practice. Okay. They're called the 14 tatwas.

Okay. And in Ayurveda... Elements?

Yeah. Like fire and... Fire.

Yeah. It means in Ayurveda and in Advaita.

[Speaker 2]
And in Sankhya.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. In Sankhya. It's basic elements.

Primordial elements or something like that. Yeah. Okay.

25 or something like... In Sankhya. I don't know.

Anyway. Okay. Here we go.

Let's go see... Sumbum, Dengue or Kangyur? Sumbum.

How about Sumbum? Let's just see if anybody, you know. Recently has corrupted it.

How do you get that V on the T anyway? Yeah. He uses a vasa.

He uses that little triangle, which is not what it's used for. Okay. But they do it.

They use it for that. Oops. I'm in new data.

Oh, God. Okay. That's the uncatalog data.

That could take an hour. Okay. We'll go back to here.

Oh, if we just spell it right in English, they'll know that we knew. I don't know. Anyway.

[Speaker 2]
It didn't find anything.

[Speaker 1]
It didn't find anything? One who comprehends. Let's see if it came up with anything.

No, it's still going. Okay. Poor thing.

It's all that uncatalog stuff. Just that window? Yeah.

Yeah, I'll let it go. Yeah, we're trying to determine what's right. See, at a certain point, like, a corruption becomes normal.

Like in English also, right? Don't we do that? Like, we just start to misspell something so often that everyone starts to spell it that way.

And then you're weird. If you spell catalog with a G-U-E now, everyone thinks you're weird. You see?

Yeah. Okay, anyway. Where's he going?

Why is he talking about this? Why is he doing all this? Why is he, like, squirming around like this?

Why is he trying to divert it to the person who understands emptiness? Close. What?

Yeah. Who said that? That's nice.

Yeah. He said, don't forget where there's a misnomer. Self-made Buddha.

Why? They're not self-made and they're not Buddhists. Everything else is okay.

Okay? I mean, that's a good debate in the beginning. Is there a self-made Buddha, Buddha?

No. Well, there are certainly self-made. Well, why do they call them self-made Buddhists?

Tattva Buddha. Tattva Buddha. It's not that they're enlightened.

They're Tattva Buddha. They understand emptiness. They understand emptiness.

Okay? Because Buddha can mean all these different things. Buddha can mean a flower opening.

Buddha can mean waking up. Buddha can mean understanding something. So it just means they understand emptiness.

Do they understand emptiness? Are they Tattva Buddha? Is a self-made Buddha a Tattva Buddha?

Someone who comprehends emptiness. No, they're not. They only understand dharme, selflessness.

Lower school. Lower school. Lower middle way school.

[Speaker 2]
See?

[Speaker 1]
Lower middle way school. What school are you in? See?

I hate to ruin your fun, but if you think somebody's going there, you can say, what school are we in right now? What hat are you wearing? You see?

According to every other school, they didn't perceive emptiness directly. According to Madhyamika Prasangika, they did. Right now we're in...

Where are we? What school are we in? Come on, Chandrakirti.

We're in Madhyamika Prasangika. We're in high school. Otherwise I wouldn't spend six years on this boy.

Okay. All right. Here we go.

Let's see if they found anything down here. Still going. Oh, my God.

They're really going. I think we killed it in the start over again. Die, die.

Okay. It'll come up eventually. Okay.

Let's go back here. It's a common misspelling for it. Okay.

Whoa. That's interesting.

[Speaker 2]
Uh-oh. That's demoralizing.

[Speaker 1]
I knew I shouldn't have done that. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
It's because you said, die, die.

[Speaker 1]
I shouldn't have said, die, die. It's because you're not on the 30th. Okay.

Let's... I still have to get in here. Let's just read it while my computer is waiting, okay?

No, let me see. Oh, here we go. That's getting better.

I got into the debunker the other day and suddenly I said, this might work. After a year, This might work. People were getting it.

It's very cool. Okay, here we go. Give me a word.

The Tibetan is chung-se mi-sam, mi-sam. Chung-se means just a touch Jitsam means doesn't quite fit, you see, or a little bit inappropriate in a way, but not as strong as inappropriate. So find me a.

[Speaker 2]
What's wrong with doesn't quite fit?

[Speaker 1]
Sometimes that's a good question. Let me see. I like it.

Okay. Doesn't quite fit really. Okay.

I mean, he's trying to be polite, right? Because, no, who translated it? These great, these great translators.

I mean, he's like, maybe you could have done better than mid-level Buddha for these guys. You see what I mean? For that word in Sanskrit.

What was the word in Sanskrit? We don't know. Sanskrit is gone.

Sanskrit is missing. They say there's a copy in the Patala. We don't know.

What do you guys think?

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
I like it too.

[Speaker 1]
I don't mind a little colloquial is okay.

[Speaker 2]
I'm in honor of all our British members.

[Speaker 1]
Is closeness a negative in this sense? Is it a synonym of emptiness? Hang on.

Yeah, hang on one second. Self-made Buddhists. I want to catch something.

Where's the then? Those of you who know Tibetan pretty well. I just added self-made Buddhists then are people who have reached there.

It was up here. It's this S right here. Okay.

Good luck hypertext there. Where is he?

[Speaker 2]
I'm not very happy with that little really I think.

[Speaker 1]
I kind of like it.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, that's in honor of our British members.

[Speaker 1]
Well, how about doesn't really quite fit? Really doesn't quite fit. What?

What do you think? Doesn't? I like it.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Exactly. What do you call it? Llama overrule.

Okay. She gets it every day. Okay.

I'm going to do much bigger thing today. Did we get the cheer in there? No, we didn't.

That's what I was thinking.

[Speaker 2]
How could they have only a mid-level comprehension?

[Speaker 1]
No, I was waiting for someone to complain about that. What do you say? Say it again.

[Speaker 2]
How could they have only a mid-level comprehension?

[Speaker 1]
Good. Good. I mean, either thought or you didn't, you see.

He was very careful. He's very sneaky in the language there, right? He didn't say they've only realized it halfway.

He said their position is somehow mid-level. He can't say they haven't realized emptiness, right? They're in Arhat.

They've seen emptiness directly. In the Madhyamika Prasangika school, you can't say they're somehow halfway there. You see what I mean?

They can't be buddha-tattva halfway, mid-level buddha-tattva, come on. It's a good point, you know? You can tell he's kind of trying to scream.

You know, he's like, reach the position, okay? Right? Because of course they've realized they are people.

He's saying he's self-reliant. Oh, I'm not using it that way. Kong's not.

But, okay? I mean, you can see he's, what do you call it? Equivocating there, attached.

And somebody might call him on it. That's why he threw that position thing in there. Now he's going to explain it more.

He's going to explain it more. Okay, it's good somebody caught it.

[Speaker 2]
Is it a position or a realization? Is that always? What do you mean?

[Speaker 1]
It's really a position in realization, but I didn't want to use it that way. It's just a middle-level question, really. I didn't do much of a detailed explanation.

[Speaker 2]
That sounds, it almost seems better that way. Yeah. Because all realization, I mean, realization itself is exactly what's going to be different, right?

[Speaker 1]
I don't know.

[Speaker 2]
Because it's a middle-level realization.

[Speaker 1]
We'll see. Wait till we get the whole thing. Middle-level.

[Speaker 2]
It's like you're saying middle-level realization. If you took position out, it's a position or a realization, then it would be a middle-level realization if I'm looking at you in that sense. Then it'd be kind of stuck.

[Speaker 1]
Well, we got both. We've got kongpik chöpa means comprehend and thöpa means realization. You see what I mean?

Is it a shot of realization? It is.

[Speaker 2]
Comprehend the position for which they have the realization. Or it finds one of the, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
We'll call it position of realization. That's got some more, it's more equivocating. That's okay.

You can have this really low.

[Speaker 2]
Right.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Oh, by the way, he's given this yinbei cheer, but he didn't have any assertion. He just wants to do it, you know?

He hasn't made any assertion up here. It stopped. The last one stopped.

The last one stopped here. The last one stopped here. Yeah, he's just like going off.

He's like going off, and he didn't say anything.

[Speaker 2]
Is he trying to appease somebody politically? Is that why he's doing that? Yeah, that was good.

Maybe the doubt's in his own mind?

[Speaker 1]
No, he's just like, he doesn't want to go to debate ground the next night and have some guy attack him, you know? So many booze tonight. I'm trying to stuff a thing in there somehow.

I don't know. Yeah, I'm looking. I'm going to let it go.

Because he really hasn't made any assertion. And I just, it would sound weird. It'd be like, and that's true.

Oh yeah, there's too many really, right.

[Speaker 2]
You took that one out? Well, it's only because I didn't want to repeat the word, really.

[Speaker 1]
I'm just seeing if I can stuff a because in there somewhere.

[Speaker 2]
I don't think they're doing anything in there. No bets. Ain't quite the way it should be.

No comments from the panel.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Oh, no.

[Speaker 2]
No.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, no.

[Speaker 2]
Gets wants to know who overruled the llama overrule.

[Speaker 1]
That's an expression, llama, but.

[Speaker 2]
Your cup.

[Speaker 1]
I'm just going to stick that in to get the cheer at the end. So don't worry. Okay.

Did we read this one yet? I don't know. Oh no.

Let's read it together. Ready? One.

Did we read it? No. One, two, three.

Now we're studying. Sing. Down.

Self-made Buddha. Ring. Mid-level.

Guten. Reason. I never saw so many yawns in one class.

We should open some windows. No, okay. Niente.

Listener. Tzotni. Two collections.

Com. Not gom. Brazil.

Brazil. Com. Com.

That's why you have to know the sounds, right? This is com, not gom. Okay, what's gom?

Gom means to meditate, but com means something else. To get used to something, okay? Or to practice, okay?

They're totally related, of course. You know? Shiwa.

Peace is related to shiwa. To die, but you don't want to say peace on you and then please die. You know what I mean?

No, I mean, of course they're related, but you want to choose the one you want, right? Okay. Okay, now there's a reason.

Okay? Those of you who really know Tibetan, this is really nasty. I mean, latne is the relatively longer, okay?

Sing means to, it's related to ringwa. What's the ring in sering? Long, right?

So that's the root of that word. Okay, and you'll see later, you'll see in a few minutes why they've been able to maintain their practice longer. Okay?

Here we go again, ready? One, two, three. So, nyi khe pa chen ta sem chen tam che la mik pe tuk che chen po tam nam pa tam che khen pa nyi la so pa mek pe san gye dang chang che sem pa nam le mem pe ring po sha pe He's so, he can't do a single sentence without that.

He's either doing it or he doesn't have to do it. Okay. Sok nyi, two collections.

Where did you ever hear that before? What is it? Gyewa di gyewo kun, sunam yeshi tso tso shi.

We do it every night. Okay? If you didn't know.

Gyewa di gyewo kun, sunam yeshi tso tso shi. May they collect the collections of merit and wisdom. He's talking about the two collections.

Kepa chen ta. Sem chen, living being. Why don't we say sentient being?

Did I tell you that? Did I give you that spiel yet? All right, I'll give it to you again.

I got a CD with all the English works of literature, American and English, in the last 200 years. And I searched it for the word sentient being. I don't know how it started.

I don't know how it got started. It just got out of hand. The only person who ever used that word in the last 200 years was H.G. Wells in describing Martians. No, I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. And now it's become Dharma lingo, you know?

It's not, just say living beings, that's all. Okay. What's thugje chenpo?

In Sanskrit, mahakaruna, mahakaruna. Okay, thugje chenpo. This is the honorific, thugje.

What's the non-honorific? Ningje, okay, ningje. Thug is the high honorific for mind or heart.

And so you say, when you're talking about a divine being or something, you say thugje chenpo. How do you say thank you in Tibetan? Thugje chenpo, oh, you're a great heart.

You say, how do you say, oh, man, in Tibetan? Ningje. It means, oh, oh, ouch.

You know, it's like, when you see something like, I don't know, somebody slips on a banana peel and breaks their arm, you're like, ningje. Ningje. Okay, all right.

Or just so like, when you wanna say pitiful or sad, oh, her mom died last night, oh, ningje. It's like, it can be a really sweet thing to say if you wanna know in Tibetan. It's very colloquial.

Oh, his mom died last night, oh, acha, ningje. Like that, okay. What's thugje chenpo?

Omniscience. Okay. Chanchu semba.

Bodhisattva. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
What? Bodhisattva is translating it, just.

[Speaker 1]
Oh.

[Speaker 2]
It's not into English.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, but everybody's know bodhisattva. Ever since Steely Dan did.

[Speaker 2]
Oh.

[Speaker 1]
It's in English now. Bodhisattva, once you take me back. Okay, really good guitar work.

Okay, sanyakya pachandang. Chalem mehbe thugje chenpo. Do you wanna call it high compassion?

This is the honorific honorific. It's actually great high compassion, but I don't know. We'll say high.

Not a high compassion, but. That would be chok. So sometimes you have to eliminate a word on the basis of knowing that the Tibetan word it would have been, you see what I mean?

That he would have used if he wanted to say hiya. So then to really translate well, you have to know the three words that he could have used that he didn't use. And then that takes like an extra 10 years.

You see, really. Okay, now the high compassion is focused towards. You wanna say inferior or lower?

He's trying to say that's why they're mid-level. You see, go back to the last paragraph. They're better than listeners, but they're worse than bodhisattvas and buddhas.

You wanna say inferior or lower? But we're trying to get them positioned right, you see.

[Speaker 2]
They're better than these guys, but they're lower.

[Speaker 1]
No, lower, we'll say lower. No, he's just trying to position them between two. He's trying to say, look, they're better than these guys and they're worse than these guys.

So they're mid-level. Inferior is loaded, right?

[Speaker 2]
We'll say lower. And besides, if you say mid, then you should say lower. You wanna say less than?

Less than.

[Speaker 1]
Less than.

[Speaker 2]
No, lower.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, lower wins, just because they're louder. Okay, this one's the lower one. My boss used to just keep yelling louder and louder until he got this way.

What's the Tibetan for lower here? Memba, okay, memba. It's the hinna in hinayana.

[Speaker 2]
I like that. Maybe.

[Speaker 1]
You talk to bats when she's mad. And this is true because, I had to get in that this is true in there somewhere. Okay?

[Speaker 2]
Oh, Betts wants to know, talk to Betts about what? Diagrams. Diagrams.

She figured it out. Oh my, adding diagrams to the text.

[Speaker 1]
Why are we talking about mid-level Buddhists? At all. It came up in the whole, this is the whole, we never got past the first verse of the book yet.

Why? What'd he say? Come on, this is last week's debate.

Yeah, but he didn't say self-made Buddhists. He said listeners and mid-level Buddhists come from Buddhas and Buddhists come from Bodhisattvas and Bodhisattvas come from? Three causes, right?

Yeah, of which two come from one. Yeah, yeah. See, you remember that because you debated it in front of a lot of people and you were under pressure and you'll never forget it.

No, really. I never forget the debates where I got like embarrassed or a lot of stress out during the debate. So if you avoid debate ground, you'll never, you see, you just won't have that depth when you teach it.

You see what I mean? That's the point. You got to have all this stuff in reserve.

All these embarrassments you endured in the debate ground are there to call on. When some schmuck in Tulsa raises their hand, you know, and you're like, yes, and they say, well, what about cosmic consciousness?

[Speaker 2]
And you're like, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Well, that's the whole point. You have this, you can help people better. You say, oh, that comes up in Vachandra Kirti's, you know, entering the Middle Way.

I debated it back in Diamond Mountain when it was just a bunch of rocks, you know. There'll come a day, mark my words, you'll be called the old timers. They'll call you old timers.

Okay. De yin de rang de le. Okay, here we go.

One, two, three. De yin de rang de le. De dak ni su nang dang.

Ye she gong tu pel we. Ke par ki nyen thot. nam, le, khe, pa, pa, pe, khyu, dham.

It's a split, we call it a split reason, split reason. He's going to say, tadadadayinbhichir, tadadadayinbhichir. This is two, it's a split reason.

First, because you're ugly. Second, because you're dumb. So you don't clap to the second one really, but if you want to.

Okay. It's called a split reason. Okay, I think I got this thing.

Do you want to do this thing? Where's the indent here? Nope.

Yeah, no?

[Speaker 2]
Oh, there you go.

[Speaker 1]
Still didn't do anything. Okay. Oh, it's waiting.

[Speaker 2]
We'll let Bill go.

[Speaker 1]
Maybe I'll just block it out and do it later.

[Speaker 2]
I think that's what you should do.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, and this is true because...

[Speaker 2]
There's something at the top of the screen. Yeah, this means formatting the selected text.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
It says top left. Top right.

[Speaker 1]
Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Well, let me do it later. This is true because... This is true because...

[Speaker 1]
This one here, you mean?

[Speaker 2]
No, no. One more, one more. There you go.

That's it. Yay! Okay, both sides?

Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Does it do both sides? I need to do both sides. Punch the...

[Speaker 2]
I don't think it'll do both.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, well, anyway, we'll figure it out later. This is true because they are... Here's the real meaning of bhagavata, okay?

What's bhagavata? Arya. Arya, right?

But here's the verb bhagavata. And they are bhagavata compared... They are bhagavata...

They bhagavata nyantas. He's talking about rangas. He's talking about self-made Buddhas.

[Speaker 2]
They talk?

[Speaker 1]
They are superior to. You see what I mean? Something like that.

Here's where you would hypertext it as a literal... a literal occurrence of this common word that will help somebody understand the word arya or parpa, okay? So, this is true because they are grossly superior...

There's some kind of adverb here. You give me one. Yeah, I like fun.

To thisness. Okay? Okay?

Who's auto-commentary? That's a trick question, right? People like come up to me and say, who wrote the auto-commentary to Chandrakirti's root text?

Okay. Nobody's biting. All right.

Here we go. Huh? It ended on the right, I think.

It's really cranky. Let's do this slide too and see what happens. I don't know.

Ew. That's weird. Oh, it's because, yeah.

Let's do it this way.

[Speaker 2]
There you go. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
It's always a simple one, right?

[Speaker 2]
Does he repeat the, this is true, this is true?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, he does. You see? Who's saying the first this is true?

Kiritambar Dargir. Who's saying the second this is true?

[Speaker 2]
Chandrakirti.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, Master Chandrakirti. So it's not, it's not a mistake. It's just cute.

Where is it in the Tibetan? Here's the chair. Okay.

And his chair is down here. There's his chair. All right.

You just have to know. Okay. All right.

Anyway. Okay. Here we go.

One, two, three. And I have to change this. You'll see why.

Can I just try this one? Nope. Try this one.

Nope. Try this one. Okay.

Okay. You see that now Kiritambar Dargir is, what do you call that when you steal somebody's term paper? Plagiarizing.

Which in Buddhism is considered high good form. You know, if you're plagiarizing an enlightened being or Chandrakirti or, you're doing okay. There's no pressure in Tibetan Buddhism to be original.

It's the opposite. You see what I mean? If you can talk like Jetsun Kappa, that's fine.

You know what I mean? If everything that comes out of your mouth is copped from some sutra, you know, that's, you're there. Okay.

Except that you should present it in a modern way, right? You should kind of, you know, giggle or sing a song or, you know. No, you should do something that makes a modern audience.

But everything that comes out of your mouth should just be scripture basically. You see what I mean? Like that.

Okay. And that puts up a Sanghya in Chandrasekharananda. Huh?

Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
First, in the sentence above, he says...

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, good. Collection?

[Speaker 2]
Yes, they did this.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. He didn't technically use the word collection up there. And we're going to get to it.

It's going to be a debate. Okay? Do they have the collection of merit and wisdom?

Self-made Buddha.

[Speaker 2]
They've taken it to a high level. According to who? No, they...

I said no.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, they've taken merit and wisdom, but he didn't use the word collection.

[Speaker 2]
Right.

[Speaker 1]
Now, somebody else is going to come along later, and you've anticipated an issue that's going to come up. Well, do they have the collection of merit and wisdom or not? You know.

Okay? Yeah, we'll debate that. That's coming.

So, good point. That's a very good point. That's like you're anticipating what's coming.

Wow, where did it go? Very much. This then makes them lower than totally enlightened Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, and that's why they are mid-level.

And this is why they are mid-level. And so this is why. Okay.

Good? So, Kirtanidhi is... He's got lungo or rikpa on his side.

Agama or pratyakshanama, anama in the Yoga Sutra. Has he got anama, anumana, or agama? Yeah, he's got agama.

He's like, I've got agama. You can't argue with me. I can quote a text that says that.

Sometimes he'll use anumana, sometimes he'll use agama. Does it mean how far they can develop it or how much they can use it? How much they have developed it.

[Speaker 2]
Could you put rikpa instead of reach?

[Speaker 1]
Let me see. Take is... I'm just saying take.

You want to say develop?

[Speaker 2]
I wasn't sure if it meant how far they can develop it.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, yeah. You want to say develop? Would you guys prefer develop?

[Speaker 2]
He's right. It could be a question.

[Speaker 1]
What did he use? Oh, I just paraphrased it. I see.

I think I won't put develop. I'll tell you why. There's other words for that.

Like kiawa, kippa, gongtupewa, like that. So, okay. Oops.

Okay, ready? This is the last one, I think. So, have hope.

One, two, three. He's got another two. Split reason.

Split reason. He's got another two. Good.

You want to start a fight? It's kind of late. How do you want to translate dharmakaya?

[Speaker 2]
Not bad.

[Speaker 1]
Halfway. It's not wisdom body. That's jnana dharmakaya.

I call it body of reality. It's okay. Truth body.

Dharma body. Prefer dharma. Huh?

[Speaker 2]
I know.

[Speaker 1]
Body of reality. You can debate it.

[Speaker 2]
What is that? Nobody's gonna understand that.

[Speaker 1]
That's a dharma body? Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. We'll sleep by it. I'd rather sleep in it.

Can you?

[Speaker 1]
Here's a tough one. It's in the blank. Mental continuum.

It's mental continuum. Are you okay with that one?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Mindstream.

[Speaker 1]
I like mindstream. That's a... You've got to try to distance yourself from dharma lingo that you've already been brainwashed into.

You know, if you're a translator, you have to struggle to not buy Snow Lion's term over the last five years or whatever. You know, you have to struggle to try to reach a... to find a term which is less...

How do you say? Obscure, really.

[Speaker 2]
Say again. Yeah. Mindstream.

No, it doesn't. People say mindstream. You could say mind, but then you don't have a sense of...

Isn't that collection of merit a regular result of... Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, that's a good point. She said, if you think about the two collections, doesn't the collection of merit create the form body and the collection of wisdom creates the... I don't know.

Yeah, because he's only choosing one half, right? But, he's going to back himself up with Jalapathunsa. He's going to back himself up with scripture, which we'll not do tonight, but he's going to...

And then the next debate, which starts here, goes on to, well, does that mean he doesn't have any collections at all? Okay. Because he keeps...

He's very careful to... He's covering himself, right? He keeps saying what?

Extraordinary form. He's covering his rear end. He's waiting for somebody to come and say, well, don't they have any collection at all?

Okay. So, you can guess where that's going to go. Okay, we'll stop there.

Keep coming, okay? I tell you, it's the greatest book on emptiness ever written. We'll never do it again.

We'll never have time again. You know, and, I don't know, I would come even if I had no intention of ever learning Tibetan, just to get the book. You know what I mean?

And you will know emptiness backwards and forwards by the time we finish. You'll know every detail about emptiness. It's the greatest book ever written on emptiness.

It's also probably the greatest book ever written on the six perfections. Unless you count Buddhist Office of Way of Life, right? No, I mean, it's up there and it's not as well known.

You see, I mean, like the Buddhist Office of Way of Life is easy to read, it's easy to translate, so there's nine translations and, and it's, and this book is actually a presentation of the six perfections. So, emptiness just happens to be 75% of the book, you know. So, yeah.

Is it the greatest book?

[Speaker 2]
That's my original answer.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, what is the greatest book? There is a greatest book. Besides the Bible, of course.

I think Liberation of the Pine Heads is pretty close in my mind. You know, Rinpoche taught it for 25 years. He taught it over and over.

He went, every 10 years he started again, you know. I think it's a, I don't know. That's pretty close.

Which school? This text? Every Tibetan school of Buddhism accepts this text as the greatest text on emptiness and they read it differently.

I mean, Master Chandrakirti's text. Yeah. Oh, no.

Not very well. Yeah. Okay.

You ready? Cool. Cool.

It's really cool that you're participating, that you're really giving good suggestions. And I think the work, somebody looked at it recently, it was a translator, and they said, that's nice, you know. Because there'll be certain things that I, I mean, usually there's some kind of, I don't know, Lennon and McCartney made better music than Lennon or McCartney.

Right? I mean, after they split up, it was so lame. You know?

So, no, this kind of interactive thing, it seems to, I like it. I think it's coming out well. And it'll be a benefit.

Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you. Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
Okay.