Нагарджуна, курс 3 — Мудрость Арьи Нагарджуны, курс 3: Пустота мантры (2021, Аризона), занятие 12

[Speaker 1]
Okay, welcome back to Nagarjuna. No giggling. And we're going to go to chapter 17, which is, I don't know, this chapter is weird because you can understand it.

So I was thinking Nagarjuna was sitting there and he's like, let me write one chapter that they can understand. And so I don't know, you're probably going to get bored now. But here, let's go to it.

Okay, now it's worthwhile to say that you might ask yourself, why did he write a chapter that we can understand? Now, after 16 un-understandable chapters, why does he suddenly give us an easy chapter? I think trying to guess why Nagarjuna does stuff is a very interesting way to spend a couple of hours.

All right, okay, so here's the name of the chapter. LAS LTAG PA ZHES BYA BA And I don't know if you noticed Tim, for example, but he changed the spelling of LTAG PA. Somebody changed the spelling, probably Choney Lama.

And instead of saying an investigation of karma, he says, let's investigate karma. It's interesting. Okay, he made a verb.

Let's investigate karma. Okay, so this chapter is called The Investigation of Karma. All right, here we go.

Let's go to the first verse.

[Speaker 2]
Do you want to read, Tim? Yeah. ,LTAG NI, ,GZHAN BAR GANG PO CHANG SEMS DANG, ,GANG, ,DE PHYIR BU YIN GYI GZHAN DU, ,DE BU DAG GIS LA DANG, Good, okay.

[Speaker 1]
DAG NI? Yeah, but it's touchy because he said DAG NI. Me, me, myself.

Where is it going to go? When Nagarjuna says, me, myself, you're like, where are you going with this? Then he says, DONGS PA.

DONGS PA? Vowel. But the verb?

Control yourself. Okay, the verb for DONGS PA means to control yourself. So LEGS PA, LEGS SO, LEGS SO.

Well, to control yourself carefully, to control yourself carefully, and really it's BYAMS PA, BYAMS PA. Love, it's love. BYAMS SEMS means thoughts of love.

PHAN DOG GZHAN means to help others. Thoughts of love where you want to help others. DE, now, all throughout these verses we go, ,BDAG NYID LAS PAR DONGS PA DANG, You can, by the way, if you go to the monastery and hear the kids memorizing, ,BDAG NYID LAS PAR DONGS PA DANG, ,GZHAN LA PHAN DOG BYAMS PA'I SKABS, ,DE PHYIR DE NYID, No, Nagarjuna says, don't say that.

Say, DE PHYIR. Don't read it, DE PHYIR. What's the difference?

DE PHYIR. That's PHYIR. That's DONGS PA.

It's powerful. He says, DE PHYIR. What's DE?

DONGS PA and BYAMS PA. Love and control yourself from hurting others. Be nice to others and love others.

DE, don't say DE PHYIR. Say, DE PHYIR. That's dharma.

And Choney Lama adds a karpo there. Karpo. You have a karpo shoe on.

Yeah, why? That's pure dharma. Choney Lama says, that's dharma as white as snow.

Picture. That's dharma, karpo. Choney Lama says, Nagarjuna said, that's dharma.

That's what dharma is, loving other people and not hurting them. But Choney Lama says, and that's as white as snow. All right, GZHAN NA PO NI DE PHYIR Now, what happens if you do that kind of thing?

You get DE BU. You get results. And then, here's $100.

The Tibetan translator put... Okay, Christina. He put in the DUL.

He put, when he wrote fruits or results, he used the ending, which means the two results. Why? It's at the end of the third line, if you can guess.

BRTZE'I BDIS BRTZE'I BDIS BRTZE'I GZHAN Life, life. Life, BRTZE'I BDIS LA in this life and in your future lives. For $100, how does the Yoga Sutra say that?

In the first chapter of the Yoga Sutra, they say that exact same thing. BRTZOR BSTAR BRTZOR BSTAR BYANG MA BAD DANG NYA BRTZOR BSTAR BRTZOR BSTAR BYANG MA BAD DANG NYA Experienced in this life and in the next life. Seen in this life and seen in the next life.

[Speaker 2]
All right.

[Speaker 1]
All right. Anyway, the result of controlling yourself from hurting others and from thoughts of love towards others is the SABAN of DEBUS, the two DEBUS in this life and the next life, in the future lives. Okay, got it?

There's nothing difficult about that verse. I don't know, Nagarjuna is losing it. It's just a simple truth.

Then you're like suspicious. You're like, well, where's it going now? Here we go.

Next verse. DRANG SONG CHO GYIS LAS RNAMS NI SEMS PA DANG NI SEMS PAR GSUNGS LAS LAS BDAG GIS PHYIR LA NI RNAMS PA DUS MA YONGS SU PHRAG DRANG SONG CHEN PO means the great sage. DRANG SONG is SIDDHI.

The great yogi. Who's the great? The ultimate yogi.

The Buddha. Because sometimes he's called DRANG SONG CHEN PO, the ultimate yogi. You've got to use that in your affirmation power.

The ultimate yogi means the Buddha. He said, you can divide all karma, LAS, into SEMS PA and SAM PA.

[Speaker 2]
SAM. Past tense.

[Speaker 1]
LAS LAS GCIG RTEN NA It's okay. DE NI SEMS PA DANG DE BYED Opening. Yeah, thoughts and what they motivate.

So thoughts and thought. Thinking and thought. Thinking and thunked.

Okay, thinking and thunked. That's a new verb saying. Take budget.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, SEMS PA DANG DE SEMS PA SEMS PA means intention. And SAM PA means what you intended to do, which means what you say and what you do.

So he's covered how many? He's actually covered three kinds of karma. SEMS PA, mental karma.

And then SAM PA, what you say and what you do. And that's all the kinds of karma there are. So the DRANG SONG CHOG, the ultimate yogi, he said, SONG, you can divide all karma into intending to do something and then the things you intended to do.

Intention and intended. LAS LAS BDAG GIS PHYIR DAG NI Now if you want to divide those up, PHYIR PHYIR DAG, right? Here it is.

If you want to divide up those kinds of karma, SDU MA There's billions. Just forget it. YANGS SU BDAG means you can find, described hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of divisions.

Basically, those two. Intention and what you intended to say or do. Okay, got it?

Let's do some Sanskrit. I thought it would be nice to know the words for intention and what you intended to do or say. So here we go.

Intention, or what you're thinking to do, is called CETA NA. Okay, CETA NA. Say CETA NA.

The Tibetan is SEMS PA, which is the definition of karma in Tibetan. SEMS PA YI GYI MED YIN NO Karma is thinking to do something. Raw karma.

Raw karma is intention. Comes from the root GCIT, which means to think, which literally means to shine. And in ancient times, it was believed that thinking illuminated the world.

If you ever died, the world would go dark. See what I mean? That's why the world is called LOKA, which means lucid.

Same root. ROC, also ROC.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
To shine from within. So the world is illuminated by the mind. So the mind is called GCIT, which means shit, which means, here it's called quipe.

It used to be GCIT, then it goes to GCWIT, then it becomes GCZHBIT, then it becomes quipe, and then it becomes white. Okay? Or wheat, because that becomes white when you grind it.

So wheat means the white grain. So the mind illuminates the world. And that's why the mind is called the whitener.

Okay, got it? GCIT. Okay, GCIT BDAG.

And if you know Russian, I mean, there are many, many roots. GCIT BDAG means to consider. GCIT BDAG means to read.

GCIT BDAG, I consider. Like that. Okay, I read.

All right. Now the opposite, CETA YOD PA, is SAM PA in Tibetan. What you thought, which means what you're doing and what you're saying.

The thunked thing. And that's just a simple passive form, right? With the YOD, CETA YOD PA.

That what you are thinking. The DVA came into English as shun, like locomotion or action. Okay, all right.

Makes it a noun. Cool, we finished our... Just remember GCIT means to think and it's tied up with illumination.

GCIT means shine. Shine came from that. Okay, all right.

Here we go. Next verse. So what's unusual about this chapter so far?

Two verses in a row. We understood what the heck he's talking about. And he doesn't seem to have brought up emptiness.

And I assert that this is the first verse he ever didn't bring it up. And he's got two in a row, which is really suspicious. I mean, this is where university scholars say somebody added this chapter, which I don't think is true.

But anyway, it's a little suspicious. Okay, here we go. DE LA LAS GANG SEMS PA SHES SEMS PA DE NI YID GYUR BDOD Universally miscarred.

SEMS PA SHES NI GANG SEMS PA DE NI LUS DANG RGAG GYUR BDOD You guys can figure this out. What is SEMS PA? It's YID GYUR BDOD.

YID GYUR BDOD. Karma of the mind. What is SEMS PA?

What's the thing you saw? It's LUS and RGAG. Yeah, body and speech.

What you say and what you do. Three in a row. Something's definitely going on.

I don't know. What's the picture? I mean, even the picture was boring.

So I picked a picture from above. Wait, yeah, I'm sorry, no. That's from the last one.

That's thinking and thought. The balloon is thought. I'm explaining it to you.

And here's talking and doing, which comes from thinking. All right, let's go try to find a verse which is challenging. Oh, here's one.

In the next two verses, he outlines seven types of karma. He promised us cedak, right? What was that?

Cicada. He promised us many categories of karma. Well, here they are.

Here's the easiest one. And it's intriguing what Nagarjuna thinks is a division of karma. Because if somebody asked me, what's the different kinds of karma?

I would say the 10 good deeds or the 10 bad deeds, right? And he goes off on this weird thing, which is so Nagarjuna. Here we go.

Well, ngak. That's easy. Talking, ngak, talking.

Like ngawang is a typical Tibetan name which means vageshwara, vageshwara, the power of speech. So ngak. Then he says gyurpa, and you guys know mikyurpa.

Akshobhya, akshobhya. Yeah, unmoving like a mountain. So what's kshobhya?

Which means? Speech and action. Physical action.

It's interesting he calls it moving. Moving your body. So how many kinds of karma so far?

Two. Okay, two. Okay, Tim, 200 bucks.

Prabdhi-abhidharma. Nama-rik and nama-rik chenma-yimpa. Two divisions of...

Think of weird things in Stanley's text that have to do with karma.

[Speaker 2]
Can you pay a lot of money?

[Speaker 1]
God, $200? Dang. Yeah, what's the classic example?

When you take a vow. When you get down on your knee and you do this chicken pasta thing, anyone can guess your motivation. It's ma-khyab, right?

You could be thinking about lunch. But, so from the form, someone can guess your motivation. Later, according to the Abhidharma, you have like an aura or a halo around you, which is your vow's influence state.

And it's invisible. No one... You can go to the bar and you can...

My translator, Mangala, is so cute. He said, Geshe-la, you ruined my life. The second time I went there, he had a beard.

And I said, what's going on? He said, Geshe-la, we were on national TV teaching Dharma. And I said, well, yeah.

And he says, I can't go to the bar anymore. Everybody says, I had to grow a beard so they wouldn't recognize me. So anyway, while he was talking about that, you can't guess from the bearded guy in the bar that he had the karmic aura of having taught Dharma on national TV.

NGAG DANG, KHYAD DANG Those two are NAM RIG, what's the MA YIN RGAG, Tim? If the first two are NAM RIG, yeah, then the next one's going to be NAM RIG MA YIN, a non-communicating aura. Now he's going to talk about the aura.

So, so far we got two. We got speech and physical movement. Now we got NAM RIG MIN.

And then he calls it MI SPONG BA. MI SPONG BA, you don't give up. You don't give up.

And Choney Lama says, that's Nagarjuna's shorthand for, you don't give up, MI DGE BA. Yeah, so it implies you are... If you are MI DGE BA SPONG, you are...

If you give up MI DGE BA, you are DGE BA. Yeah, okay. So why Nagarjuna calls good deeds not giving up deeds, it's because you don't give up bad deeds.

He's describing good deeds as not giving up deeds, but that means not giving up bad deeds, which is good deeds. MI SPONG BA I'm sorry, giving up bad deeds. Yeah, okay.

MI SPONG BA, NAM RIG MIN. I'm sorry, I screwed that up. Let's do it again.

MI SPONG BA means, yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, you don't give up bad deeds. I said it right the first time, which is a bad deed.

No, not giving up bad deeds. Not giving up bad deeds is a bad deed. That's all.

Got it? Sorry, I was right the first time. So category number three is not giving up bad deeds, which is bad deeds.

But we already covered the non-halo, so this must be the halo, which means the afterglow you get, and Choney Lama says from... And by the way, this is in the Abhidharma. When you joined a trade in ancient India, you had to take a pledge to follow that occupation.

And two famous pledges were butcher and military. I will shoot people, I will kill people. That's called a DONG MIN, DONG PA MIN PA.

What's that? Anti-vowel. It's an anti-vowel.

I promise to follow my father's trade for the rest of my life. Our friend in Argentina, her husband, he kills the animals in the factory. He's always depressed.

They don't know why. Okay. So anyway, so how many we got now?

We got verbal karma, action karma, which you can see. And then we got bad karma, halo, which is having made a promise to... And now we got DPONG BA'I, where you do give up bad deeds.

The halo you get when you do give up bad deeds. And the example of that halo is the one you get after you take your... When you're just about to take your Medicine Buddha initiation, you take your bodhisattva vows.

Okay, so that halo, everybody in this class, if you took the Nagarjuna's bodhisattva vow ceremony, you have a halo around you forever. Well, yeah, for... Well, some people say it stops when you die, but not for bodhisattva vows.

So two kinds of halos. Bad good halo. Talking, doing, that people can interpret.

And then halos of bad deeds and good deeds. So we got four. How many he promised us?

Seven. He promised us seven. Why Nagarjuna wants to go this way?

Think about it. Number five. You okay?

Yeah, non-communicating is three and four. And communicating is one and two. Okay, cool.

We didn't get to the mental ones yet. Yeah. LONGS SPYOD LAS BYUNG GSOS RNAMS DANG Oh, GZHAN BDAG KYANG NI DE BZHIN BSDOD means, GZHAN BDAG KYANG NI DE BZHIN BSDOD means apply that to all the others.

Apply that to all the others. And he means by that, good or bad. Okay, good or bad.

When I'm dividing things into good or bad, you know, keep doing that with the rest of them. Okay. LONGS SPYOD LAS BYUNG GSOS RNAMS DANG This is interesting.

Material good deeds relating to the Dharma. Material good deeds relating to the Dharma. Making a donation to say books.

Let the gold come. Or making a donation to build a stupa for Medicine Buddha. And that has a special name in Abhidharma.

RDZAS LAS CHUNG BA'I RGYUN BA It's very interesting. Like I spent 30 years fixing the temple in New Jersey, the Mongolian monastery. I rebuilt many of the houses and stuff like that.

And I'm still getting interest. As long as some monk is sitting in that house, I'm getting interest, karmic interest. That's called RDZAS LAS CHUNG BA'I RGYUN BA.

So what is number five? Nagarjuna thinks it's important to isolate this special karma you get from physical donations, contributions to the Dharma, which will outlive you, or which will outlive your current participation. After you quit the gold club, if the gold club saved a lot of books, then every time Geshe-la uses that book in the class, you're still getting karmic interest.

It's cool. Now, for some reason, Nagarjuna thinks it's important to separate that one out. So that could be a whole conversation in a study group or something.

All right, which means that the Medicine Buddha stupa project and saving the books project are interesting projects because you keep getting interest out of them, even if you quit the group, you still get the interest. All right, cool. I'm still getting interest from all of them.

Like I built a water system in Seremey. So every time some monk takes a drink, I'm like getting more karma. All right, SON NAMS MA YIN TSUL DE BZHIN The same applies to the opposite.

And Choney Lama says, building a facility for killing cows would be an example. If you build it and then they keep killing cows, you keep getting karmic interest. Okay, that's six.

We've done six. What's number seven going to be? SEMS PA The pre-intent.

The pre-intent. Like what was your intention before you did those six? What were you hoping would be accomplished?

Good or bad. But he puts them together. So that's seven.

So we don't get an equal number because he puts them together. Okay, LAS MNGON PAR BGROD PA YIN Somebody super accepts that. MNGON PAR BGROD PA Who?

The Buddha. Those are the divisions to what he first described as only two. SEMS PA and SEMS PA BYAS STON LA and BYAS STON YID PA Now you've got seven.

Any difficult verse yet? I think he's going to kick us in the butt. I think something's coming.

I'm just guessing. Okay, there's a picture. Try to find a picture of these seven.

Good luck. I was thinking, you know, good and bad karma or something? I don't know.

Anyway, let's skip on. GAL TE MIN PA'I THUGS PA DGOS Now, finally. Why did he set us up with this calm, understandable discussion of karma?

Because he was coming, this was coming. GAL TE MIN PA'I THUGS PA DGOS GNAS NA LAS DE LTA BUR GYUR GAL TE RGA NA RGA RGYUR PA'I RGA GYUR PA'I JI LTAR BSDOD PA SKYES PA'I RGYUR Now he's like, here's Nagarjuna. Wow, so we did all these kinds of karma.

Well, what happens after that? What do you think happens after that? Where does the karma stay until it ripens?

Now he was setting us up for three verses, right? Five verses. He was setting us up.

And now he asks this innocent question. Oh, where does the karma stay until it ripens? And then he's like, two possibilities.

If it stays somewhere inert until it comes out, well, then it's THUGS PA, it's unchanging. During that period, it has to replicate itself as the same. It has to clone itself from year to year until it ripens.

So that's unchanging. That's THUGS PA. And that's impossible for a functional thing.

No functional entity in the universe can not change, even for one minute. Forget 12 lifetimes or something. Not possible.

So can we, here's Nagarjuna, can we cancel the first possibility that it sits there in your brain not changing? Yeah, it has to change. If it's a functional thing, it changes.

Why? Because it's pushed by a cause and that energy starts to slow down as it goes through time. Now, oh, Geshe-la, you're saying the longer a karma stays in your mind, the less strong it gets?

Okay, well, here's the other choice. GAL TE RGAG NA RGA RGYUR PA'I CI LTAR BSDOD PA'I RGYUR If you say it's not unchanging, then it stops. And we don't have to experience the result of the karma.

Yay! Does it replicate or does it stop? It can't replicate because then it would stay the same and it's a functional thing.

And it can't stop or else all the laws of karma would be broken. If it stops, all the laws of karma would be broken. You could do whatever you want and hope that the karma stops before it opens.

Okay? Whew! Did you ever think about it?

No. Okay, somebody tell me why the next picture is relevant. Did you ever apply for a job in New York or LA?

I'm not asking my friend. You spent hours in waiting rooms, right? Were you the same person who went into the waiting room?

I mean, to me, your karma goes to the waiting room and then finally someone says, okay, I'll interview you. You know what they always say? And they say, oh, it's five o'clock.

Can you come in tomorrow? You say, I've been here since two o'clock. And you say, yeah, but...

That's called applying for a job in New York or LA, right? Okay, you know. All right, next verse.

By the way, the final two verses of what I chose for this class, and we'll continue in the next class because this is a long chapter, two lower schools come and try to explain the question. Okay, so I assume some bigger school's going to come later. I don't know.

I didn't read ahead. But here's the answer of the DOD DES PA. The sutra school, second school, and the, what do you call that?

KHA BYAS, KHA BYAS, which means Kashmiris, the guys from Kashmir, which means an Abhidharma school that used to hang out in northern India. Later, that area became Muslim. And now the Tibetan word for Muslim is Kashmiri.

KHA BYAS, same word. Like Punjab, right? Okay, here we go.

GNYUD GU LA SOGS RGYUN GANG YIN SA BON LAS NI SNGON PAR BYUNG DE LAS BSDOD BU SA BON NI ME NA DE YANG BYUNG MI GYUR First you have the seed. By the way, who's this? Lower Buddhists.

Well, first you have it. They're answering Nagarjuna. First you have the seed.

GNYUD GU LA SOGS RGYUN GANG YIN And then it opens, and there's a flow. Sorry, before it opens. First you have the seed, and then something comes out, which is a flow.

Here's the seed. The flow breaks out, and then it ripens. So no problem.

It's not that the seed is repeating itself, which would be unchanging, which is impossible. The seed produces something right away. It's called the flow of the karma.

Here's the seed. Karma opens, comes out. Wait.

And that's the ripening of the karma. So no problem. Does the seed ripen into the karma right away?

No, it flows. And then what happens? At the end of the flow, it opens into the resultant.

Got it? Therefore, no problem. It's still changing because it's flowing.

But the karmic result hasn't opened yet. Got it? No problem.

Seed, flow, result. Seed, flow, result. Got it?

That's the lower Buddhist school. DE LAS GYIS BU TZA BA NI And then comes the result. MED NA DE YANG BYUNG MI RGYUR The result could not have happened without the seed first.

Therefore, the result is connected to the seed. If the seed had never happened, the result at the end of the flow never would have come out. Therefore, the seed is causing the result, but via a flow.

So they get out of the question that the seed didn't cause the result. The seed came before the result. It did cause the result.

It just took a while, and it was flowing. That's their thing. GANG GYUR GSOD PA'I MA'I RGYUN DANG How does that work again?

There's a tsaba, there's a seed. Then there's a flow, RGYUN. And then RGYUN LAS BDE BU Then the flow turns into the result.

And because the seed must predate the result, we avoid your two extremes. We avoid your two extremes, which is another version of the two husbands extremes, which is a more simple version of the two husbands extremes. Which means, does the seed ever stop?

Or does the seed go on, unchanging? Both of those are extremes. Why?

If the seed shut down before the result came out, there'd never be a result. If the seed kept going on the same way until the result came out, that would be unchanging. And that's not possible for a functional thing.

So it's just the flow, man. Stay with the flow. Who is that, lower school?

By the way, then Nagarjuna's like... Everybody's looking at these lower Buddhist guys like this. And they say, let's explain.

Let us explain further. Which usually means digging a deeper hole for themselves. Nagarjuna's like, what?

And they're like... The next two verses is their clarification of their position. By the way, if you don't have Charyon Lama, you don't know that.

It sounds like Nagarjuna. Anyway, SEMS RGYUD RGYUN NI GANG YIN PA SEMS NAS YI SMOS PO BYUNG BA'I RGYUR The flow of the mind comes from the mind. DE LAS BRJES BU And then that turns into the result.

The mind begets a mental flow and then the mental flow turns into the result. Three steps. DE LAS BRJES BU BRDOD He uses the instrument of B-U-S.

BRDOD, which means therefore. That the other guy is drawing a conclusion. Because there's a mind, and because then the flow of the mind, and then the result comes.

But therefore, SEMS LTAR ZHIG SEMS LTAR ZHIG means, it's an idiomatic expression which means forget it without the mind. You've got to have the mind. SEMS LTAR ZHIG means forget it if there's no mind.

There has to be a mind. Why? I just told you.

Mind, flow, result. Don't tell me you can't have a mind at the beginning of that. Without that, nothing.

SEMS LTAR ZHIG means you can't dump the mind. You've got to have the mind there. LTAR ZHIG means what the hell?

Without the mind. SEMS LTAR ZHIG MED NA SEMS LTAR ZHIG MED NA If the mind wasn't there, BYUNG MI RGYUR The whole process would never happen. It has to start with mind.

Then mind flows. If you say the flow of the mind is not part of the process, then how could you have a karma if you didn't have any thinking? He's like, what do you call it?

What do you call it? Prevacating? Logical?

Prevent? Is it? You're switching terms.

Anyway, it has to start with the mind. Why? Karma starts with the mind.

Are you telling me there's no mind? No, no, no, there's mind. Why?

Mind is the basis of karma. Okay, so it's flowing. Why do you have a problem with that?

That's all he's saying. You never could have had a karmic result without a mind anyway. So don't tell me my theory is wrong, that there's a flow, because the flow happens to be the flow of the mind, which you agree has to be there at the beginning.

Got it? GANG PHYIR SEMS LAS RGYUN DANG NI RGYUN LAS BDE BA BYUNG RGYUR ZHIG I just told you the flow comes from the mind and then the mind keeps flowing. And then at the end of the flow, you get a BDE BA.

You get a result. LAS NI BDE BA'I DGOS BA DE PHYIR BYAS MIN RTAG PA MIN And because the planting of the karma in the mind has to predate the result, I avoid your problems, the two problems that you suggested. What were the two problems we suggested?

Number one, that the karmic seed would keep replicating itself unchanged. Or that it would just, what do you call that? Truncate.

Got it? That's a perfect word actually. Write that down.

All right, we finished the first half of that chapter. We will continue with deep dive class number 13 in the next. Let's summarize.

Nagarjuna set us up with some understandable stuff at the beginning, right? What is karma? Thinking, and then the actions motivated by thinking and speech.

And then he got into seven different kinds, which included the halo stuff. And emphasized, had a noticeable bias towards physical dharma actions, supporting physical, like the input project. And then he went on to discuss whether or not, what?

How does the seed stay in the mind? If it doesn't change, there's a problem. If it does stop, there's a problem.

And then we had an attempted explanation by some guys who keep talking about some kind of flow thing that connects the result to the original seed without the seed changing or stopping.

[Speaker 2]
Cool.

[Speaker 1]
All right, see you next class.