Вордсмит — Книга 2: Трудные места школы «Ум только», занятие 12

[Speaker 3]
All right, and you're going to become the host word, and you're recording.

[Speaker 1]
Questions? No Q's? No A's?

[Speaker 3]
Can I ask one?

[Speaker 1]
Sure.

[Speaker 3]
So what do you think about in your text yesterday when it said that, um, you know, misapprehending is in the Kunshi? So what does that mean about what NuNing does?

[Speaker 1]
Oh, that was interesting. Um, yeah, the whole, um, the dock thing, the seeing it as the self part. Yeah.

I don't know. Um, that kind of, I mean, on one, on one hand, that wouldn't make sense. Um, because if that were the case, then how could Kunshi be neutral, right?

Um, hold on. I'm pulling up that part of the text.

[Speaker 3]
Me too.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Let me first screen share. Um, yeah, this this doctor, right?

Um, because that's in the, that's in the root text.

[Speaker 3]
We were doing the very last stanza before the end.

[Speaker 1]
So a different part?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah. So it's before the shade soon. So go up one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, I think.

Oh, I think you just went by it.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, so in the quote, yes.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah. S N G O N. Oh, one after.

There you go. Right there.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, this. Oh, how it, um, seeing the objects that are the object, the subject and the object outside itself and seeing it as self-existent. Um, yeah, I don't really know.

I haven't, I haven't, I haven't thought about it that much, maybe at all since the class.

[Speaker 3]
Um, but it kind of blew me away.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. It seems like it has to be many from what I know. Um, because otherwise the Quincy, how could the mind only say the Quincy, um, can be the foundation of everything if it's misunderstanding things.

Yeah. If it's misunderstanding things and therefore, um, and therefore how could you reach Nirvana and still have a Quincy, right?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. It couldn't be enlightened and have a Quincy and then therefore it couldn't be the foundation of everything. So yeah.

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. I don't know.

[Speaker 3]
We'll find out tomorrow.

[Speaker 1]
Yes.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. What else?

[Speaker 1]
Okay. There's no questions. I can go to bed early.

[Speaker 3]
Come on, you guys. This guy's brilliant. Please ask him a question.

[Speaker 1]
What is this? Is this your question, Catherine? Oh, I want to ask that too.

I don't know. That's my mom. She's in the other room.

It's her fault.

[Speaker 3]
Hi mom.

[Speaker 1]
Um, it's definitely not from studying hard.

[Speaker 3]
That's a negative that proves a positive. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
There are questions in the chat, uh, like, I see one. It says, um, why Dow?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
What, what is the path of non-Buddhism? Yes. Oh my God.

You're Chinese. Scary. Yeah.

Non-Buddhism. Chiropa. Chiropa.

Are they talking about Chiropa that was mentioned in Adam's book? Probably. Chiropa.

Why Dow? Right? Yeah.

Like literally outsiders. Yeah. Um, yeah, it was mentioned in Adam's book just now.

Chiropa and why Dow? Um, yeah, it just refers to, yeah, those who don't follow the Buddhist path. There are many different kinds of, um, you know, how do you say why doubt in outsiders?

Um, if you want a full, um, explanation of all the different, why doubt in, you would go to Ben Kramer's book, which we're finishing right now. And, uh, in that book, they go over all the major, um, Indian schools of non-Buddhists of, but not all of them. I think, uh, Trini Lama in that book says, I can't cover all of them.

There are too many, but this book covers the major beliefs of all, of all the groups or something. And even modern, uh, Jupiter's, uh, comparative religion books, um, even include like Christianity. And I, I live with a Christian right now.

I live with my mom. Um, and, um, sometimes I get in arguments sometimes the opposite though, because, uh, I found basically all religions are the same. I mean, the essence of them, not the, what people practice with the essence of them all the same.

So, uh, some examples would be the numerists, um, for ancient India, the Sankhyas, which, um, Holy Geshe-la mentioned in class. Um, the Jains are another example, which are still in India. Um, there's various Hindu beliefs and in China, uh, um, Taoism and Confucianism.

How do you say? Kong, Kong, Kong Chi? I forget.

Um, Kongzi. Yeah. Thank you.

Yeah. Those are all, um, those were all be considered outside schools. Yeah.

Okay. Mercer Lowe asked a question in the chat. Mercer.

Hi, Mercer. I don't know you. Your question is in the chat.

If the emptiness is neutral, is this perception also neutral? How do different schools respond to this and what are their reasons? Mercer, what do you mean by, uh, you mean the direct perception of emptiness?

Is it what do you mean by neutral Mercer? Uh, maybe you don't know what you mean. Like, cause it's maybe that's what you're asking me.

[Speaker 2]
Um, would you promote everybody into paralysis so that they can speak whenever it's needed?

[Speaker 1]
That sounds dangerous. Sure. I'm joking.

Yeah. Anyone can speak. I don't mind.

I think neutral in the sense of not be good or bad, like good karma, bad karma. Okay. Well, emptiness is a negative thing, so it can't be good or bad.

Um, but the direct perception of emptiness is basically the best thing ever. So it isn't neutral because it frees from all your suffering, which is very, very good. So, um, so the fact that things have no self nature is neutral in the sense that it's not a positive entity, meaning it doesn't like exist.

It can exist as a idea in your head, but it itself is a negation of what phenomenon you think is happening out there. Um, and it is how any phenomenon can happen. So it is neutral in the sense of being a negative entity, but positive in the sense of it's the result of perceiving it.

Hama? Mercer? Oh no, Linda asked a question.

I'm going to avoid it. Um, who else? Um, I don't know all the characters in your name, but you're after Mercer.

The last character is Min. Hi teacher. When I studied Buddhism before, I also felt that logical thinking was not important.

Perceptual thinking was more important, but now I understand that logic is very important, but some teachers I know logic is not very strong, but it's also very caring and energetic. What is the relationship between logic and non-logic for practice? It is complementary to each other.

Is it complementary to each other? Wow. This is a great question.

Um, yeah. Saying, I'm not saying you're saying this, but I'm just going to go over different points related. Saying that logic, caring is extremely important.

Okay. It's one of the main things, especially for your teacher and your parents, anyone you ever come in contact with. You want caring and you want to be caring.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. It's amazing quality that you should do everything to encourage in and outside yourself. Um, but, um, but non-perceptual, non-logical thinking, I think there is a mistake that people make.

And if you take a course 14, uh, lojong, uh, Holy Geshe Michael speaks of it quite regularly. It's, and if you take the meditation course too, you can understand this. If you engage in certain ways of being or practices before it's time, um, it can be harmful.

So in the beginning of your practice, um, you should closely examine what you do. Um, what your teacher does, um, and so forth, those things important to the, to the path, because your teacher is going to be your guide. So you have to like a certain, um, that they are, uh, a being that can lead you to the goals that you have.

Like, if you want to get good at golf, you know, you should get a good golf teacher. You should find Tiger woods, not me. Um, if you want to study about my knowledge school, maybe you should talk to me.

I don't know better off talking to Geshe-la, but like that. So, um, but what can happen is later on in the path, um, like with meditation, for instance, uh, it's in the late stages of meditation practice, your problem becomes making adjustments when you don't have to make adjustments. Okay.

And it's like driving. If you, uh, I've been driving a long time. Let me see.

When I was young, I used to steal my dad's car. That's how I learned how to drive really well, because he wasn't in the car and it was late at night and I had to look out for the cops. So I had to learn to drive well.

And, uh, and in the beginning people drive like this and going like, they, they make adjustments that are too big, but they have to make adjustments because they're going to go into either off the edge of the road or into oncoming traffic. Okay. So in the beginning, they have to make adjustments, but the adjustments they make are very gross.

Um, and then later on they have to make more subtle adjustments. Right. And, uh, to stay in the middle, but, but when you get good at driving, like I've been driving for a long time, I guess like 27 years or something like that, very, very old.

Um, your problem is if you, if I made an adjustment now, I, I would go off the road then, because I'm in the middle most of the time. Okay. Unless I'm texting, which I shouldn't do, but I do sometimes.

Okay. Then I'm swerving. Um, so it's like that there's times in the practice where later on you can kind of let go of your, um, kind of hard examination.

And if you don't, it's actually quite, you you'll hurt yourself in later practice, but in the beginning you should not overthink, but you should clearly examine what, what you're doing, the teachings, and, you know, be clear on the qualities of your teacher to make sure that you can, um, get the kind of guidance that you need. So, um, and there are more advanced practices that involve like non-perceptual thinking and stuff, but they're usually reserved for, um, seasoned practitioners, like senior practitioners. So.

Okay. Good question. Okay.

Next question is in, all in Chinese. I only know, I know you're saying laoshi. Uh, let me see.

Um, qingwen, uh, laoshi ni, um, sheru. I might need help with this one, Stanley. Um, you are.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Word. I have translated it into English.

Who's that? Hola. Are you looking at Yingying?

Yeah. Yingying.

[Speaker 3]
Oh, okay.

[Speaker 2]
I got it. Look over there.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Yeah. I got it.

Um, yeah. Um, okay. Before I ask that, um, Anatole is a funny question.

Uh, I'll answer that in a second. A cultural mining, um, or diamond mining. You mean diamond mining, Yingying?

Is that what she means? Hola.

[Speaker 2]
Yes. Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Yingying. Ni hao.

Um, Oh, cool. Uh, diamond mining is very important. It's okay.

So many concepts in these books are very important for people to, um, to have happy lives and to, to meet all their goals. I mean, eventually everyone wants to get enlightened, but in the beginning, they might not want that. They just might want everyone, pretty much everyone wants money or at least the resources to take care of themselves.

Uh, almost everyone wants a girlfriend or someone to hang out with, you know, boyfriend, whatever it is, partner. And, um, everyone wants to be happy, right. In their mind, whatever that means to them.

And then, um, yeah. And everybody wants to be healthy. So, right.

These are like the, the goals that DCI promotes. Right. And, uh, DCI is a company that is founded on diamond mining, meaning Holy Geshe Michael goes into the books and he turns concepts that, I mean, I like to read, you know, Tibetan and Chinese and Sanskrit and these philosophical ways of thinking, but for most people, it seems that wouldn't be accessible to them.

And actually it would turn them off. If you talked to philosophically or in another language or too technically, they don't want to hear that. They just want the essence of the teaching in a way that works for their mind, their life.

Right. So like, um, you know, like we began Adam's book tonight with the famous quote from Lord Buddha about judging others. And I mean, that's huge diamond mining, you know, everyone needs that.

I mean, I live in the United States and right now the country's very divided, um, along political lines, um, also racial lines, um, also sexual orientation lines and gender lines. There's much division, right. Some religions, religious stuff against, um, you know, um, Muslims and, and even attacks on like East Asian Americans right now.

So many things are going on, but all that comes from some sort of judgment in the minds of the people who are angry. They think those people are a way that they're not because all humans are the same exact. All humans just want to be happy.

Um, and whatever they do as, as heinous as it is, um, sometimes it's just some attempt at that. So if we really understood the minds of others, like the Buddha, we would know that we, we should either be getting out of people's way so that they can get what they want or helping them get what they want. You know, if it doesn't hurt them, of course, or hurt you, um, that's never, um, encouraged.

Um, so yeah, so that's an example. So just doing that with all the teachings, all these, all these teachings have diamond mining in them. You just have to turn them into something that people can use.

That's all it means, uh, in the modern day, in their, you know, the context of their, their lives. I hope that helps.

[Speaker 2]
Um, I were, um, there is a Chinese question right before Aisha. So would you like to answer that? That's in Chinese.

So I would like to translate that a little. We're not on that one yet.

[Speaker 1]
I'm going in order. Yeah, but you go, okay. We'll take that one next.

Go ahead. You tell me.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Here. The question from IR, uh, she may, um, her question is since we say the middle way is the high school, right?

And why don't we just spend more time on learning the middle way rather than learning other schools? Is it because this is helpful for our practice?

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Um, yes. Uh, and Mercer had a great follow-up question that I like anyway.

Um, uh, who has someone named Aria? I like your name. Maybe you should be teaching me.

Aria. I say, um, yeah, it can be very helpful for our practice because I mean, if you are an Aria, then no problem. Anyone who is right.

But if you have not reached that level of understanding and realization about the nature of things, if your mind is like my mind, it fluctuates throughout the day and it fluctuates through the various, um, levels of understanding on emptiness, which goes from zero, which is just like a mental affliction attack. Um, to, you know, listening to Holy Geshe Michael do the pen and being like, oh yeah, the pen. Okay.

Um, but we say it has about six steps in between, you know, and each one of the Buddhist schools represents one of those, um, one or more of those steps. And so it's important to know those steps firstly for ourselves in our own mind. Right.

And then next, um, as teachers, as guides, as friends, it's also important to, to know all those steps to help guide our students. Okay. $20.

Why should we know all those steps? What would we do wrong if we didn't know those different sorts of emptiness? We might teach emptiness to somebody who wasn't prepared yet.

And? And then they might turn back from enlightenment. I know, but what would we do wrong?

Come on, Leah. I knew you'd answer this. Well, we'd break a vow.

Okay. For the $20. Tell me which number Vow number 11 or 13.

Pick one quick. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. No, 11.

I love you, Leah. Okay. She was close.

Yeah. We'd break our bodhisattva vow because, which is the 11th one, which is not teaching emptiness to students who aren't ready. Because if you do that, the reason that is a vow in my humble opinion is because you'll hurt people's minds.

And trust me, I've been a student for like a decade now. I've heard a lot of people's minds talking about emptiness. Yeah.

I had good intentions. I meant well, I've heard people's minds many ways, by the way, but, um, specifically wanting to talk about emptiness. Cause I was excited about it, but not because they were ready for it.

Um, so we need to know for those reasons. And it helps us to frame where people are at such that we are able to help them, which is bodhicitta, which is what we want to do all the time, right? Bodhisattvas, people who have bodhicitta in their hearts are thinking of others when they do everything it's imbued in all their activities, right?

So to get there, we have to fake it till we make it. Okay. Okay.

I hope that helps you, Arya. Um, we'll get to Anatole's question in a second. So how do you say your name?

Jaona? Jaona.

[Speaker 2]
Hmm. Oh, oh, okay.

[Speaker 1]
Uh, Jaona asked about the two husbands in the kitchen, um, uh, when she says not there. So I don't know when you say like the two husbands and like the pen thing, you know, um, they come from Holy Geshe Michael's deep understanding of the sutras, right? Of the teachings and, um, and his deep realizations about that understanding, right?

And so, um, even though they are short and they're even kind of funny, right? Dogs and chew toys and two husbands in a kitchen and, uh, you know, you know, joking around, you're the dumbest kids in, you know, Guangzhou or wherever. These all seem funny, but every word of how he, how he phrases those things has a point.

Now, learning to phrase things correctly is a huge part of being a teacher. Okay. So if you're going to teach anyone, anything, you really have to know how to phrase things.

Okay. Not, and not only the words you use, but the tone, the timing and the delivery. Okay.

And the words you use themselves. So you have to understand the concept well, and then you have to say in a way that they are going to get it. If you don't get the concept, it's going to be hard for, or maybe impossible for them to get the concept, right?

And if you want to get really good at timing, um, I recommend you watch comedians. They're the best. That's the hardest.

Okay. Hardest job is to stand on the stage and get people to laugh, especially when they don't know who you are. Okay.

Um, and, um, if you watch very good teachers like Geshe-la, um, he's very good at teaching and he'll tell jokes while he's teaching. So he's a comedian and a teacher at the same time. Okay.

So the point here is, um, Jauna, I don't know if that's how you say your name, but that's how it looks in the, um, how it's written. Wants to know, how do you present the part? Not there.

When you are talking about the two husbands in the kitchen, it really depends on your audience. If the audience is a bunch of people who are coming to the mixed nuts on Saturday night or Saturday morning, depending where, where you are. Um, they probably already heard the pen thing about 200 times.

They're probably in pure gold or DCI or have taken like, you know, 10 ACI courses. And there's, so there's one way you present it. If they've never heard any of those teachings before, there's a whole other way you have to present it.

Um, and so you have to be, you have to know your audience. Okay. That's also a huge thing to, as a student, excuse me, as a teacher, actually, it's one of the 10 qualities of a teacher who can tell me the Tibetan for that.

I'll give you $30. Come on. It's Ma Ke Den, which means you know exactly the student's level.

Cause if you don't, you're going to break that 11th Puti Safa vowel, the 11th root vowel as well. So the best way to present the, the, the, the husband that is not there, you know, it depends, but if it's a newbie, someone who has never heard the stuff before I say, um, is there a husband in the kitchen who something like this, whose mother wouldn't be like, yeah, good job for yelling at the wife. Of course she's supposed to be home early to feed you supper.

What kind of wife is that? Right. Is there no such husband that could ever exist?

No, of course there is. There's that's why wives hate mother-in-laws right? That's the joke anyway.

So you have to know your audience, Joanna, to get it right. Okay. And Mercer wants to know, oh, she says, in other words, does this perception not exist?

The direct perception of emptiness? Uh, no, the direct perception of emptiness does exist. Otherwise we could not get enlightened.

Um, okay. Okay. Linda has a question.

Here we go. Uh, let me see how good I can do this. Uh, woman, um, um, something, something, I don't know those last parts.

[Speaker 2]
You want me to translate it? Um, yeah, here, the question here says, um, tolerance here that, um, Buddhism is a tolerant or inclusive, whatever that word is. And, um, so I want to know how it performed, like in what way, when we say it is tolerant.

[Speaker 1]
I don't know. I haven't heard it put like that Buddhism is tolerant, but I mean, historically Lord Buddha would take, um, anyone as a student, um, what's that word? Um, regardless of their, their gender or their caste, that was, and that was revolutionary.

Um, regardless of gender or caste where Buddha would teach anyone, I guess, anyone who had the seeds essentially. Um, so that is huge in terms of, in terms of the tolerance of Buddhism. Um, other ways Buddhism is tolerant.

I don't know. I mean, a good teacher kind of will take anyone. I mean, if you find the right teacher for you and, you know, there's certain things that, you know, it's very hard to get a teacher in, like they won't take just anybody.

[Speaker 2]
I would not say tolerant, but I would say inclusive.

[Speaker 1]
Inclusive of whom? What do you mean?

[Speaker 2]
Um, that's the Chinese saying. We always say that, uh, Buddhism is, uh, um, inclusive, inclusive. They do not, um, they are not like Christian and, uh, other religions.

They, yeah. Yeah. They don't have, uh, such conflict like Christians do in the past time with, uh, other religion religions because, um, yeah, Buddhism is a very inclusive.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Um, Buddhists have had conflicts just, just to be clear. Okay.

Um, were they really Buddhists that they were getting conflicts? That's a good question. Um, I would say that is Bodhicitta.

That is what that is. That is the teachings on love and compassion and caring for others enough to not fight them. Try to help them do your best to understand their situation.

Um, and try to at least bring them up to the next step in their spiritual evolution. So that is the, that not tolerant or that inclusive is in essence is founded on the fact that half of the teachings are Bodhicitta. That's what half the teachings are.

So I would say that was the answer, Linda Wu.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah. Another question. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Um, where does the craziest day between that between past the knife and this knife?

[Speaker 1]
Wait, you don't get two questions in a row. Okay. Okay.

Fine. Fine. Uh, where does, this is the, this is what we're talking about my book right now.

Where does, couldn't you stay between births?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah. But the author only said that, um, what, what are you thinking? I know what are you doing is a projection of your past life, but it didn't answer the question directly.

[Speaker 2]
So I would like to know exactly where, where crazy space between birth.

[Speaker 1]
It's answered later in the book. You want to see? Okay.

Okay. I can wait. I can wait.

I'm just going to look here. Here's, this is the golden key and the auto commentary combined. Um, and then later on in the book, we're going to go through the proofs of, um, or, or arguments about emptiness, I'm excusing about the foundation consciousness, excuse me.

Um, let me see. Jeez should get us there. Um, yep.

Yeah. No, that's not it. Nope.

Hmm. Yeah. See, here it is.

Verse 37. Um, in a arguments concerning problems, taking birth, engaging first, the clarity, the seeds, the operating feeling in the body and deep meditation. Okay.

This one taking birth. Hold on. Um, that one is actually, this is faster.

That one is your question. What happens to the country in between births? You know, how do we have a country, right?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
This is your question. Um, okay. So it's argument number one, I think, excuse me.

Yeah. And it's complicated. Um, but basically even in here, it is basically even in our book right now, it's summarized as thus.

I mean, what happens to all those pop chalks? Because all, even though the pop chalks are, you know, the seeds, right? Jones are kept in the country and ripen as the country.

You have to say that they are where the country come from as well, because everything comes from seeds. Everything comes from karma, right? Cause and effect.

Every Buddhist school agrees that everything comes from karma, how, and the details they don't agree, but every Buddhist school believes everything comes from karma, right? Did I lose her fall asleep? She probably fell asleep.

[Speaker 2]
Well, not everything comes from crime, according to all Buddhist schools. Like what doesn't like in the Abhidharma and the mountains and stuff, they don't come from karma. Oh no, they do.

[Speaker 1]
Other schools don't think they do. Non-Buddhist schools don't think they do. Like, um, the Sankhya say, does the roundness of a pea come from karma?

Does the sharpness of a thorn come from karma?

[Speaker 2]
You know, but if they all agree that everything came from karma, it would, wouldn't it be over? It would just be the middle way school. They believe the raw data, the raw data doesn't come from karma in the lower middle way.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Maybe I should phrase it different. Um, all Buddhist school beliefs believe in cause and effect.

I should just say that to make it inclusive of all the schools. Yeah. Cause that's what I was trying to say.

They all believe in cause and effect and they, some of the details they disagree on. Okay. Thank you, Anatole.

Okay. That's your answer, Linda Wu. I hope it was helpful.

Okay. Anatole, here's your question. What is the best organized confusion album?

I mean, I, I mainly listened to Equinox, the second one, but I don't think it was the best one. I think the first one was better, but I didn't rock it that much. Um, okay.

And then, okay. And then in the famous example of three branches banging against each other in the wind, representing ourselves on the branch and then all the people and things, another branch. Wait, three branches, Anatole?

No, not two branches, like subjects and objects. Okay, cool. So Anatole has a question about the subjects and objects in the mind only school.

How, how they come from the same seed?

[Speaker 2]
Um, yeah, right. They come from one, one like a source, one earlier branch, but then Geshe-la in the teaching about it said when one banks into the other one, that's not, that's not happening. They can't, they can't hit each other.

[Speaker 1]
Right. Cause they, I never really understood it. You know, I never really totally got it.

Okay. I'll do my best. Um, so what Anatole is asking about is one of the famous teachings of the mind only school, which is the kunshi, which is foundation consciousness, alayesha in Chinese, right.

Is the eighth consciousness in the mind. Um, and that eighth consciousness is the foundation of everything, right. And it has two parts.

It has the part where all the seeds are stored. Um, and it has the part where all the seeds that are ripening are being perceived by the kunshi. And there are three basic things that the kunshi can perceive.

Um, it can perceive objects, the sense organs and the seeds. But when we say it can perceive the seeds, what we mean is that even though we say it perceives the seeds, it doesn't really perceive seeds. It perceives the seeds as objects and the sense powers.

So what that means is, uh, famously in Tibetan, it's a chick say chick means they're a single substance, right? Days, um, R D Z A S it means stuff or substance, uh, and chick means one or a single. Um, and what that is saying is the object and the thing perceiving the object, the sense power, the sense organ, both come from the same seed, which then splits into two and seems like two things.

So it seems like they're physical stuff, but they're only mind. They're only mental things. They're only seeds.

And that's where the name mind only comes from. It's not that they don't exist. It's not that you in the mind only school, they think you're not kissing your husband.

It's saying the husband, you think you're kissing that self-existent is actually coming from a seed in your mind. And the lips that you perceive him, you kissing him with come from the same seat. Okay.

Okay. And so Anatole's question is, um, did I answer your question? Yeah, definitely.

[Speaker 2]
The first part, which is explaining, uh, you know, that position. And then I was curious if, um, are you aware of any, of any differing positions according to the, any of the middle way schools, like lower middle or higher middle way?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, well, basically middle, neither the middle way schools believes in a crunchy generally. Um, there are some lower way, middle practitioners that lean towards a mind only, apparently something like that. Um, but generally they don't believe there's a foundation consciousness.

They just, the lower middle way school just believes that there's a basis, um, that your mind correctly. You're on your mind, an unaffected mind, a mind that's not like drunk or high or very jealous, um, can see as a thing. So they call that the 50 50 school.

Um, and hold on, let me get that right. And then the middle way school, the higher middle way school, um, believes that you project, obviously, you know, but you're projecting on raw data, which is also projected all the way down infinitely. Right.

So, um, so it's kind of cool because each one of those schools and all the schools actually build on each other. It's, and they, it's like steps up a, up a staircase or something, right. Understanding that things are a single substance.

If you just take away the just like, Oh, it's just two parts that me. And then if you understand that, Oh, well, the raw data, the parts have to be coming from karma too. Why wouldn't they?

Um, then you understand that even the raw data is a projected projection. Right.

[Speaker 2]
Cool.

[Speaker 3]
Does that help?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. I like it a lot that the, the, as you go up to schools, you take away the coins. So you don't, you feel like you don't need it anymore, but, uh, you start there in a very complex way, but you start there and then you can somehow take it away at some point and you just, you have the two parts and then finally you can just have everything coming from crime.

[Speaker 1]
That's exactly. Yeah. That's Mahamudra.

Yep. Thank you. Yeah.

Okay. All right. Yeah.

And I looked it up in the ACI courses. Um, Oh yeah. Uh, Oh, simply this is lower middle ways view.

Um, simply being established as existing by having appeared to an unaffected state of mind. Um, yeah. Yeah.

And see, seeing something as it appears to unaffected mind, that's the lower middle way. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Um, what's next? I have a question.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Go ahead.

[Speaker 2]
Um, I was just talking to my Lama today. He just came out of retreat today. And he said that, um, it's like we do all these good deeds.

We do all these good deeds, but like, Oh my gosh, we have to like purify so much. Like you, like, like we don't even like know how much we have to purify.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
And I mean, I do like a purification during a meditation and like during so Jong. Um, and I'm just wondering is one of the texts, I mean, I'm, I'm listening to the presentations as I can is as many as I can. Does one of the texts focus on this?

I, you know, purification or this idea of like, like really like purification almost all the time.

[Speaker 1]
Um, the diamond cutter says that, I mean, what does the diamond cutter sutra say? Anybody, come on, everyone fall asleep. Maybe.

Um, the diamond cutter sutra says, um, anyone who practices these teachings well, will suffer a lot, like all the time. And it's true. I mean, in my experience ago, I mean, my, my Qigong Sifu, uh, explained it and I love it.

And, I think it's a spiritual principle. You think it will or something, but it goes like this, it goes like this over the weeks, months, years. So it's not that you're not improving.

It just basically your lowest lows become higher than your old highest highs afterward time. But I mean, we have to purify. I mean, if you, to be frank, um, don't call me frank to be, to be blunt.

Yeah. If you understood what was really going on in your mind, if you're human, you have to purify. We're doing bad things all day.

I mean, if misunderstanding is a thing that drives the wheel of life, if your mind is anything like my mind, then you're planting bad karmas all day. The good things you do are bad karmas or impure karmas. The bad things you do are impure karmas.

Even the neutral things you're doing, the background is impure because you're constantly thinking of your world as self-existent all day, if you're a human. And so that's going to create a kajillion seeds a second or something, which multiply, uh, times two, right? Or exponentially every day or whatever.

So a kajillion times a kajillion, I don't know. That's a bazillion. So yeah, you need to purify.

But the great thing about emptiness is it undercuts the whole thing. It's like, even if a building was to the moon, if you blew up the foundation, it would fall as surely as a two-story building, right? So that's why Singham tends to directly get you out in seven lifetimes or less, because you just cut the root.

And so it doesn't matter how big it is. I mean, even if you have a huge tree, a sequoia, you know, or a redwood or something, if the root system gets damaged, it just falls over, right? And so that's samsara.

Samsara is based on a lie when realized even a jillion years of bad karma just, what's this called in Sanskrit? Look, poof. Anatole taught me how to pronounce this word right in Guadalajara.

Nirvana. It means blow out. It just, all of a sudden, it's just like, poof.

It's just like, nah, it had everything that was ever driving you crazy never even existed. Could never exist, will never exist. So, you know, you just need a couple more lifetimes to clean it up.

You're done. Yay. Yay.

Okay. That was Leah's question in the Q&A, right, Leah? But the short answer is the Sutra on the Four Forces, and the essence of the Four Forces is understanding emptiness and taking refuge, pretty much.

And like, not doing the bad things anymore, which, you know. I'm supposed to end this thing in a minute. I'll keep going if people want to hear my voice more.

[Speaker 2]
Yes, please. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
I'll keep going for a little bit. So Mercer also asked, oh yeah, in the pen, when you teach the pen, oh wait, first Ruko asked this question. Okay, excuse me.

About the pen. How can we teach the pen in public teachings if we don't, basically, we don't know what level everyone's at, right? So do we break our 11th voice out of that?

And I had this question seven years ago, about? No, eight years ago, I had this question. I'm like, well, Geshe-la teaches the pen all the time.

How could he know? But basically, if someone comes to your teaching, it's okay to teach the teaching, okay? If you say, we're going to have a teaching on Buddhist philosophy, it's okay to teach Buddhist philosophy at that point.

But if you're a very sensitive teacher, right? And again, this goes for comedians. Comedians learn how to read the crowd, right?

Singers too. Artists of all kinds, performance artists, they know how to read the energy of the crowd. So if you start talking about pens and emptiness and how your husband doesn't exist, and all of a sudden you feel this weird energy, like everyone just gets quiet or something, you know, just start telling jokes or do a rock song or teach them how precious their life is or something.

You have to change the teaching for the crowd. And what principle does Geshe-la teach to make sure you can do this easily for zero dollars? He says, bring a hundred dollars to the dollar store, okay?

Even if everything only costs a dollar, right? You're planning on teaching this one thing, still bring a hundred dollars just in case, right? Maybe find something nice there and you have to buy 99 things for other people.

I don't know. But you have to be aware of the fact that you have to have many tools in your toolbox so that if you need to teach something to somebody, you can. You know, I'm a nerd.

I just, I like to learn languages. Yeah, upaya, skillful means, exactly. Tapke.

I'm a nerd. I like to learn languages and, I don't know. Some of them I've never really used.

But you never know. Sometimes, I think one time, where was I? I was in customs or something, and there was some Chinese lady there who didn't know what was going on.

And I started to talk to her and help her. My Chinese is not very good, but enough to get her through. So maybe my months of learning Chinese was worth that one moment, right?

A bodhisattva learns as many skills as possible just in case he has to help somebody with them, or she. All right. And then, wait, we had another pen question that was...

Oh, okay. Mercer says, in the pen story, the last part is that if you have enough good seeds, the pen is, in my hand, can become gold. However, is this that kind of gold that we can take to the bank and exchange for money?

Or is it just the gold that only me or the people who have the same seeds with me can see this gold? Your question is saying, is a gold empty of being gold, or is it self-existently gold? Okay.

There is no gold that is self-existently gold that everyone will see as gold that you can exchange for money. This is why certain cultures didn't think of gold as precious. And at certain times, the price of gold goes up and the price of gold goes down.

And if gold was self-existently precious, it could save you when you were drowning, but it won't. It will keep you down. If you try to save the gold, you will drown with the gold.

So there is no kind of gold that people without the seeds can see as precious. That's the only kind of gold you can ever exchange for money. And if you start thinking like that, you can get very rich very fast, because things that used to be worthless are all of a sudden worth a lot.

Like lithium. The price of lithium is skyrocketing because it's the chief element or the key element in the type of batteries that will fuel electric cars and other green energy initiatives. So now they call lithium white gold.

I'm Jamaican by ancestry. I grew up eating avocados. When I was a kid, Americans didn't know what an avocado was.

Now they love avocados so much they call it green gold. There are places in Mexico where people are killing for avocado trees because it's so valuable now. So are avocados self-existently valuable?

No. In some situations they are worthless. Other situations they are worth much.

Sometimes they're worthless. Other times they're worth a lot. So it just depends on your seeds.

[Speaker 2]
Top K skillful means. Isn't Top K drastic means?

[Speaker 1]
Both. Drastic means is another translation of skillful means. Okay.

Yeah, like Hata, right? Upaya. Oh, no.

Hata is. Oh, I see. I see.

Yeah. Hata. Yeah.

Hata means like drastic or something very difficult. What is the Tibetan they use for that? They use top, don't they?

I think Top K. Oh, my God. That's Yoga Studies Institute class course one, class one, I think, or class two.

I forget. I've taken that course, that class many times, but now I'm spacing on the meaning. But sometimes when they translate certain languages, certain words, they have to use the same word.

Why'd you ask me that? I have to look it up. I'll see.

I'll see. Okay. I'll look.

Okay. But let me ask the next question while I figure it out. Okay.

Yeah. Okay. So Aria asked, why is confession to the teacher help clean up the bad seeds?

Oh, yeah. Sorry, translators. I'm going over time.

Do you have to go to sleep or something? You probably have families and stuff. If you need me to stop, just tell me because I don't want to take up anybody's time.

Okay. Oh, why is confession to the teacher help us clean up the bad seeds? It just depends on your relationship with the teacher.

If you think of the teacher as a high being, then confessing to them is going to help you because if you have the seeds to see them as a high being, then you have the seeds for them to be someone that can help you purify because of how high you see them. And also, there's a certain magic power to telling somebody you think of as very good something bad you did. It means you have some kind of, we say consideration in Buddhism.

It means you think, oh my, you know that this person, how they would think if they knew that you did that and still you're willing to come out and say it. And because you're willing to come out and say it, it changes your mind. It means you are willing to change your mind.

You're willing to let go and shift.

[Speaker 2]
That's all. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Maybe that's it.

[Speaker 2]
I have one.

[Speaker 1]
Who's that? My name is David. Oh, hey, David.

Hi. I'm not really having a lot of background experience with pens and kitchens. So, you know, I kind of feel like I just came into the room and I took off my jacket and I want to hang my coat somewhere.

So, I'm looking for a nail to hang it on. So, you know, when I'm thinking about seeds and exposure, it comes to mind that there's a lot of mention about banyan trees and that I'm wondering if you have any reflections on banyan seeds being unique, they being of the fig variety and kind of taking host in other trees, returning down to the congular, if you're familiar with any references to banyan trees and those seeds being unique from our seeds of poison. They have roots that grow directly out of the branches rather than the roots being in the ground and branches growing up. So, this is what I'm toying with in my mind rather than pens and dogs and kitchens.

Yeah. I don't know that teaching about banyan trees per se, but what we're saying with the seeds thing is just that from everything we do has an effect and that effect is directly related to the thing that we did. And our experience of the world is 100% affected by how we act, how we think and what we do.

So, you know, any metaphor that we use that helps to empower us to understand that we can change our world by changing our actions and that the things and the people we see around us have no way of being except for how we perceive them. And we have to perceive them because we're forced to based upon how we've acted. And I'm sure there's tons of metaphors in the Kangir, you know, the Buddhist speech that, you know, I don't know.

And that sounds like a cool one, but I don't know it specifically. But, yeah, anything that helps us get closer to, yeah, treating people better based upon how we act or trying to change our world and make our world better based on how we act is the name of the game here. Does that help?

And as far as like pens and everything, they're just like different metaphors that our teacher Geshe Michael uses to help. Yeah, I get the metaphors. I just need to teach you.

Yeah, yeah. You just have to hear them over and over. We've just heard them so many times.

And so we just use those things. I hope that helps.

[Speaker 2]
Anatole, is he gone?

[Speaker 1]
Maybe he left. I found it. It's Zen Talk.

Okay, I think that's good. I went over long enough. People should go to sleep and stuff.

You want to do a mandala?

[Speaker 2]
Yes, please. Who's that? Who said yes?

Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Okay. And David, keep coming to class.

You'll hear all about pens and husbands and shoe toys. Okay, I'll do the mandala. Yay.

Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Yay. Thanks. That was amazing.

Thank you so much.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you. Anatole, it's Zen Talk.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, that's the drastic or?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it's Hatha. Hatha.

[Speaker 2]
Zen Talk. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. I put it in the chat. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Perfect.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. I love you guys. See you tomorrow.

Wow, it looks nice. Nice. Nice to see your face.

Okay, I'm stopping the meeting. See you guys tomorrow.