Вордсмит — Книга 2: Трудные места школы «Ум только», занятие 13

[Speaker 2]
Hey, Captain Bill. Hey, Word. You came to my class?

Are you sure you're in the right place?

[Speaker 3]
Oh, well, you know, I'll sit on the sidelines.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Nice to see you.

[Speaker 3]
Captain Bill is an avid MindOnly student. We've been debating MindOnly mostly for years and years He loves your class.

[Speaker 2]
Really? I'm sorry for you. Let's do Mandala, okay?

Then we'll do the homework. SANGYE CHO RAM SOGI CHOK NAMNAR CHANG CHU BAR DU DRAG NI GAB SU JI DAG GI CHUN YEN GYI PAD SO NAM KYI DRO LA ARPAN CHIR SANGYE CHOK PAR SO SANGYE CHO RAM SOGI CHOK NAMNAR CHANG CHU BAR DU DRAG NI GAB SU JI DAG GI CHUN YEN GYI PAD SO NAM KYI DRO LA ARPAN CHIR SANGYE CHOK PAR SO SANGYE CHO RAM SOGI CHOK NAMNAR CHANG CHU BAR DU DRAG NI GAB SU JI DAG GI CHUN YEN GYI PAD SO NAM KYI DRO LA ARPAN CHIR SANGYE CHOK PAR SO Yay! Homework!

Hopefully I remember what the answers are. Okay. Homework two.

In terms of foundation consciousness, should I put the foundation consciousness? I don't know. What are the two holders?

Tibetan and English. Or English. I don't know.

Whatever you got. Perceiver and what's perceived? Yeah.

That's it. Anyone know the... Phuket?

Basically, basically, or I put the whole phrase somewhere here. Once I adjust my screen. Excuse me.

Yes. Holding to outer objects and holding inner objects or mental states. Here's what Jason Koppel said.

Okay. Or is that... What is it?

Excuse me. What is it that creates our perception of these two holders? Yeah.

What's the English? Seed? Seeds!

It seems elementary, but it was the key to our whole discussion. The thing outside and the holder of the holder comes from seeds that are both bok choks in Tibetan. Okay.

What is the conclusion of our argument for a foundation consciousness that occurs in between lives? Should I hyphenate that? I think so.

[Speaker 3]
It continues.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, but why? You're right. But why?

That's the conclusion.

[Speaker 1]
Just because the seeds are still in your mind that are going to throw forth, but why would they stop? Why would the place that is ripening from the seeds and holds the seeds stop?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Since bok choks create kunshi and we have a bunch of bok choks, then there should be more kunshi. Why would the kunshi stop just because life stops when there's a bunch of bok choks, which creates life and the kunshi and the kunshi creating bok choks or holding bok chok.

Yeah! This is hyphenated too, isn't it?

[Speaker 3]
No, that's not hyphenated. The other one can be or not. It's up to you.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Hyphen, schmiphen. It seems so...

Left over. Left? Two words?

Akma.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you. Since it is the seeds that create our experience of life as well as the foundation conscious, we have many leftover seeds at the end of our lives. There are more seeds to create a foundation conscious in between lives as well.

And that's it. Yay.

[Speaker 1]
You can have leftovers. All right, here we go. Where are you guys?

[Speaker 3]
Yay, word.

[Speaker 1]
Yay, me. Yay, boo. Okay.

I think you make less money when you're actually doing your own text.

[Speaker 2]
You offer me less money when I'm doing my own text.

[Speaker 1]
You know, I'm... I'm blessed, you know. I actually do the four steps and...

I like to share my... Me and V like to share. Okay, here we go.

Thank you, Geshe-la. Okay. I got a new insight into this verse, which makes it very simple.

Okay, word? I'm going to do that with you first. By the way, word and I have a proposal for the Mixed Nuts.

Word, I didn't have time to write it up yet, but I'm going to do it in the next two days, I promise. I wanted to make a mind map of it. Okay.

I'm just going to read it for you and then I'll prove to you that it's correct, okay? There's two kinds of bhagchaks. There's LEN GYI BHAG CHAGS.

In this verse by Vasubandhu, where he's really doing what he really enjoys, there's the LEN GYI BHAG CHAGS, kamma, and then there's the DZIN GNYIS GYI BHAG CHAGS, okay? There's two kinds of bhagchaks in the universe. One is LEN GYI BHAG CHAGS and one is DZIN GNYIS GYI BHAG CHAGS.

In this vocabulary, the LEN GYI BHAG CHAGS create your body. The LEN GYI BHAG CHAGS create your body. The DZIN GNYIS GYI BHAG CHAGS create your mind.

Whether that mind is perceiving objects or the subjects itself, okay? Whether the mind is perceiving other things or whether the mind is perceiving perception, those are both created by DZIN GNYIS GYI BHAG CHAGS. Seeds for the two kinds of perception.

So you got two kinds of bhagchaks. LEN GYI BHAG CHAGS, karma bhagchaks, create your body. DZIN GNYIS GYI BHAG CHAGS create the two parts of your mind, one which perceives things and one which perceives the mind itself.

Now, the former ones, which is which one, the word? LEN GNYIS GYI BHAG CHAGS The karma bhagchaks, those ripenings can run out. They can be interrupted.

Say. Now what's he going to say? Anticipatory translation.

[Speaker 2]
The other ones don't.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, the other ones keep throwing out ripenings. Even if the seeds for your body wear out, the seeds for your mind keep throwing ripenings. Now we have an answer to our question, which was?

[Speaker 2]
Is there a kunshi in between lives?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, is there a kunshi in between lives? When the body dies, does kunshi continue? Tsongkhapa is quoting Vasubandhu who says, yeah, the seeds for your body can wear out, but the seeds for your mind never do.

And therefore, the kunshi continues across lives. And that's the kyang. Yeah, even though the first category wears out, the second category continues to ripen.

Continues to be born. Yeah, continues to produce things. Now here's my proof for everything, and I'm just going to do it quickly.

The good karma and bad karma and unshifting karma, these are LEN GNYIS BHAG CHAGS. Why? They produce your body.

LUS SNGON PAR GRUB PA They manifest the body. They produce your body. What are the DZIN PA GNYIS?

Holding to objects and holding to subjects. What are the two holdings? Now, if we isolate the particular KUN NA means if we isolate the part of your mind which is holding on to objects, that's what we call SUNG BA DZIN PA.

If we isolate the part of your mind which is holding on to subjects, that's what we call DZIN PA DZIN PA. Holding to subjects. The karmic seeds for future mental events are called DZIN GNYIS BHAG CHAGS.

Therefore, the seeds for the two kinds of future mental events are called seeds for the two kinds of holding. It just means seeds for your future mind which always has two parts. The part of your mind which is looking at things and the part of your mind which is looking at your own awarenesses.

Now we're ready to pick up again. Yay, let's go. Please read.

We're going to read three more sentences and let go at this point.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Cool. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, LAS KYI BHAG CHAGS, the first category which produces the physical body, okay? According to the particulars of that one, And according to its own individual characteristics upon each person's individual case, different people, jowa thadepa, and especially different realms of people, get different bodies, okay? According to different karmic bhaktiaks, different people get different bodies.

It's just like when you have different species of plant seeds, which produce different sprouts, okay? Like bean sprouts, and rose sprouts, and whatever, okay? Now, please continue.

[Speaker 2]
SEMS PA NYID KYI BAG CHAGS NI, LAS KYIS BAG CHAGS THAMS CAD CI THAR RANG GI PHANGS PA LUS SKYES PA LA ZHUGS RNAMS KYIS LHAN GCIG BYAS PA NI THU BRGYUR TE PHER NA, SA BON GYIS GNYUD KUS KHYER BA NA CHU LA SOGS PA ZHIN NO Good.

[Speaker 1]
SEMS PA NYID KYI BAG CHAGS NI, The seeds for the two parts of your mind, whether you are holding to subjects or to objects, okay? LAS KYIS BAG CHAGS THAMS CAD CI THAR RANG GI PHANGS PA LUS SKYES PA LA ZHUGS RNAMS KYIS LHAN GCIG BYAS PA The second group of seeds provides the contributing factor for the first group of seeds, okay? The seeds which are going to create your future mind are also assisting the seeds which create your body.

[Speaker 2]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
LHAN GCIG, very important mistake here in the spelling. BYAS PA NI THU BRGYUR TE For example, tell me what this sentence means, word, PHER NA, SA BON GYIS GNYUD KUS KHYER BA NA CHU LA SOGS PA ZHIN NO Oops, I translated it already. I'm not going to look.

[Speaker 2]
I didn't look. For example, the seeds which produce a sprout, how when the seeds that become a sprout are assisted by water and other such factors.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, good. Tell me what SA BON means in our verse. Tell me what in our verse represents SA BON here and what represents CHU.

[Speaker 2]
SA BON is the ZIN PA'I TZIN and CHU is the... No, wait, no, no, no. Yeah, SA BON is the...

Wait, yeah. Yeah, CHU is the assisting factor, which is the ZIN PA'I TZIN, and SA BON is the SONG GI TZIN.

[Speaker 1]
So I'm going to make it easier for you. We got two groups of bhagyaks here. Which one is the seed and which one is the water?

Isn't... No, SA BON here represents the LAS KYI BHAGYAK.

[Speaker 2]
Right, the outside fact, the outer one.

[Speaker 1]
No, LAS KYI BHAGYAK creates your body.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, the body one, which is assisted by the inner seeds.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, good. Okay, the water is the SONG GI TZIN NI GYI TZIN PA. The water is the SONG GI TZIN NI GYI TZIN PA'I BHAGYAKS.

Okay, the water is the seeds that create your mind in the future.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
And then the, what we call the karmic seeds, LAS KYI BHAGYAK, is the one that creates your body. And therefore the mental, the seeds for your future mind assist the seeds for your future body. Okay, got it?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
All right.

[Speaker 2]
Keep going. DE LTAR NA LAS KYI BHAGYAK PA ZHIG MA YIN GYI TZIN PA NI GYI BHAGYAGS KYIS TZIN PA'I RNAM PAR MIN PA SKYE MTHO ZHES BSTAN PAR MYUR RO Yeah, and what this is saying is, LAS KYI BHAGYAGS BHAGYAGS ZHIG MA YIN, the karmas that create your body don't work on their own.

[Speaker 1]
Okay? They do not work on their own. They need to be SIM PA.

They need to be influenced. They need to be in the grasp of the seeds for your future mind to produce a result. Okay?

To produce a result. To produce a karmic result. Okay?

Interesting, right? Okay. That's why we say, TZIN PA NI GYI BHAGYAGS DANG PHYIR PA Okay?

Coming along with the two kinds of, that seeds for your mind, seeds for your mental state. Anyway, we have enough now, and I'm not going to keep the detour going, okay? But you can use the detour.

Okay? And I'm going to ask you another question here. Where are we?

Yeah, here it is. Here's the famous quotation. Tsongkhapa started all this trouble.

He said, the LAS KYI BHAGYAG TZIN GYIS KYI We got two kinds of BHAGYAGS. One is called karmic BHAGYAGS, which produce your? Body.

Body. Then we got the BHAGYAGS for grasping to things, or grasping, perceiving things, or perceiving the perceiver. And those accompany them.

PHYIR PA How did Vasubandhu read the PHYIR PA? They, sorry, who was our commentator below? Yeah, it was Vasubandhu.

Sthiramati. The auto-commentary, yeah. Vasubandhu.

No, who wrote that commentary? Sthiramati. Sthiramati.

Okay, yeah, Sthiramati says, I know what PHYIR PA means. I know what PHYIR PA means. We're out.

[Speaker 2]
PHYIR PA means, they can, they help produce it, right?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, good, good. So what these first two lines say, extremely difficult lines. Look, there's two kinds of BHAGYAGS.

What? The first one produces your body. The second one produces your mind in its two forms, perceiving perceived and perceiving perceiver, okay?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
And those accompany, those are in company. They accompany who? The second group of BHAGYAGS accompanies the first group of BHAGYAGS.

Why do you say that? Because without the second group of BHAGYAGS, the first group of BHAGYAGS can't produce a body. Right.

It's like the water for the seeds, okay? Got it?

[Speaker 2]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, now, separate subject. NAM MA YID NAM PAR MED PA ZAD NAS Even though the ripening of the first group of seeds can run out, but the ripening of the other ones cannot. It will keep producing things, meaning your KUN ZHIG will not...

[Speaker 2]
Disappear within lives.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it will not stop when your body stops. And GEN LA. But, but, here's an interesting irony, if you want to go that way.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Even though the, how do we say that? Even though the seeds for your body may run out, the seeds for your mind won't run out. And in fact, without the seeds for your mind, the seeds for your body never could have worked in the first place.

How's that? Cool?

[Speaker 2]
Especially if the seeds for your mind are producing KUN ZHIG.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yay, we finished this question. What was the question?

What happens to KUN ZHIG between lives? Why did that come up? Because Tsongkapa said there's only two cases where the KUN ZHIG is interrupted.

When you reach nirvana, according to the Hinayana, or when you reach enlightenment, according to the Mahayana. He didn't mention dying. And then he answered his, he questioned himself, why didn't you say KUN ZHIG stops between births?

He says, well, it doesn't. Okay, cool. Genla.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. There's a second part where Je Tsongkapa quotes it differently than Sthiramati.

[Speaker 1]
Oh yeah, yeah, I wanted to talk about that. I wanted to talk about that. That Tengier uses the instrumental, okay?

Yi, and Tsongkapa and Sthiramati use the genitive, Yi. Which one, now that you know what they mean, which one feels more correct to you? Does it say, maturations caused by the previous may end, okay?

Or does it say the maturations of the previous may end? It says, of.

[Speaker 2]
Wait, maturations caused by the, caused by the previous?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, Yi, maturations caused by the first group may end, but maturations caused by the second group will not end. Or does it say, maturations of the first group may end, but maturations of the second group don't end? Which is correct?

Is Tsongkapa correct, or is the Tengier correct? I think Tsongkapa's correct. They're both correct.

Yeah, I would say they sound really close. Yeah, yeah. Maturations of the first group may end, or maturations brought about by the first group may end.

It's the same thing. Okay. Both guys are correct.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, but also Tsongkapa says shen, and the Tengier says kyang.

[Speaker 1]
Whoa, oh, I didn't notice that. Yeah. No one remembers that.

Oh yeah, that's interesting. That also means the same thing, but it's an interesting difference, okay?

[Speaker 2]
Right, other than.

[Speaker 1]
With kyang. What's it mean with kyang? I'll give you the first half of the sentence.

You complete the sentence. The maturation of the first group may end. Although.

But, but the maturation of the second group doesn't end. Then if you read it with shen, it says the maturation of the first group can end, but the maturation of the other group doesn't end. It's almost the same thing.

[Speaker 2]
Or otherwise.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah, and by the way, again, Tsongkapa used to choose his own translations before the Tengier was set in stone, right? Literally? Yeah, well, set in wood, actually.

All right, okay, let's keep going here. We just got. By the way, I'm not shy to spend two classes on a single verse.

I think that's what makes the mix nuts great. And I'll tell you the principle of doing something well is that later you will do it much faster. So don't worry about it.

Like anything, building a table. If you make your first table really well, you'll get faster and faster. If you make your first table crappy, it'll always take a long time to make a table.

All right, here we go.

[Speaker 3]
Geshe-la, did you think about why kunshi has misunderstanding?

[Speaker 1]
Wait, did I think about it?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, we ended the class with this verse that said that there's a kind of kunshi that is misunderstanding what it sees and the other is understanding what the seer is doing.

[Speaker 1]
Wow, were we talking about that?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, it was right before we ended. It starts with mun jungway.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, okay, okay, okay, okay. I think what this line means is that your previous habits of holding to subject and objects, living in that state of mind creates the continuation of those habits. In other words, mind begets mind.

And that's kind of the principle of mun jung in the Mind-Only School. The habit of naming things what you do has created your habit of naming things what you do. I would read it that way.

All right. Thank you. Okay, let's go, quick.

Who's checking? Xiaoping looks like she's in the mood. She said it.

Xiaoping, I rewrote your agenda for tonight.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, thank you, Geshe-la.

[Speaker 1]
I made it longer, so can I use mine? Is that okay?

[Speaker 3]
Of course, you are the boss.

[Speaker 1]
All right, I made it longer. Okay, here we go.

[Speaker 2]
Let's go, Wurund. SHES SUNG PA LTAR TSE SNGA MA'I DGE SDIG LA'I GYIS PHANG PA'I KUN ZHI SNGA MA'I TSE DE'I RGYIS MI MA ZHIG PAR DU ZHUGS CING LAS TE YID NUG PA TSE PAS TSE TE LOGS NAS YANG LAS CI MI SKYES PA'I NA MAN SBYUGS PA'I RGYUN MI CHE THO Nice, okay.

[Speaker 1]
As that's... Now he's going to give us a different take on those lines. SHES SUNG PA LTAR As these lines say, the DGE BA and DIG PA, the DGE BA'I LA'I and the DIG PA'I LA'I of your TSE SNGA MA, what's that mean, Wurund?

[Speaker 2]
The good and bad karmas of your previous lifetime.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and here previous means the first lifetime. So the good deeds, the good karmas and the bad karmas of the first life, will project a ripening of another KUN ZHI, in the second life, in the second life. The good and bad karmas of the first life will project a KUN ZHI of the second life.

And that one will stay MA ZHIG PAR DU.

[Speaker 2]
Until the time of you... Until when you don't die, but...

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and here ZHUG means it will do its thing. It will engage in objects until such time as you die. Then the first life's LAY will...

The NUS PA of the first life's karma will ZEPA.

[Speaker 2]
The power of the first life's karma will run out.

[Speaker 1]
And then KUN ZHI LOGS.

[Speaker 2]
And then KUN ZHI reverses.

[Speaker 1]
It will stop, okay? It will stop, okay? KUN ZHI will stop.

YANG KYANG. But... But, then the LAS CHI MED NAM YIN will kick in.

[Speaker 2]
Then the next life's karma will start to grow, start to happen.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and therefore KUN ZHI GYIS RGYUN MI PHRAD.

[Speaker 2]
KUN ZHI, the stream is not broken.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, the stream of KUN ZHI is never interrupted because the moment you die and the seeds for KUN ZHI of this life wear out, the seeds for KUN ZHI of the next life kick in in the next millisecond. So we cannot say that KUN ZHI is ever interrupted until you become nirvana, until you reach nirvana or enlightenment. Yay.

Yay. Okay. That wasn't...

That particular point wasn't made at all in those two lines, but okay. Let's keep going.

[Speaker 2]
YER CI CHER TEN DU GYUR PA'I NAM PAR ZHES PA HONG NA LA NAM PAR MIN PA ZHES BYA MIG SOG DBANG PO NGA YANG NAM PAR MIN PA MA YIN NAM ZHES NA Good, okay.

[Speaker 1]
Now he asked a question. Look, why in this discussion are you talking about KUN ZHI means NAM PAR ZHES PA here. KUN ZHI as the refrigerator, right?

TEN DU GYUR PA Why are you talking here? Why do you talk here about the refrigerator KUN ZHI as a MIN PA?

[Speaker 2]
As a ripening.

[Speaker 1]
As a karmic ripening. Why are you focusing here in this discussion on KUN ZHI, the refrigerator, as a karmic ripening, but you have not referred to MIG DBANG PO NGA?

[Speaker 2]
I sense power in the other five. Yeah, you, okay.

[Speaker 1]
Maybe the refrigerator is a result, is a ripening of your past karma. But why haven't you mentioned the eye, ear, nose, tongue, body powers as a ripening? Because aren't they?

Aren't they a ripening also? MA YIN NAM? MA YIN NAM.

Okay. And then like, some cop is like, Oh, NYE PAR MED DE, NYE PAR MED, KUN MIN DU, KUN MIN DU, ME YOD NGON GYI. No problem.

No problem. It's not a problem. No problem.

Please read. Doctor, Captain Bill is going to check you. Come on, Bill, be tough on him.

[Speaker 3]
Easy.

[Speaker 1]
Charge him money if he makes mistakes. You can be the bad cop. I'll be the good cop.

NYE PAR MED DE.

[Speaker 2]
Actually, you're not a good cop.

[Speaker 1]
Come on.

[Speaker 2]
NYE PAR MED DE. DI LTAR NAM PAR MIN PA MI MA DRIB LA LUNG THU MA BSTAN PA THANG TSE JI TSIG GI BAR DU KUN MI CHE DU BCUG PA THANG NGON GYI GYE WAM MI GYE WE PANG PE TRE BU YIN PA DE GYE PAR Oh, sorry. GYE PAR SUM THANG DEN PA ZHIG GU PA LE DE KUN ZHI KOR CHE LE SHEN PA LA MI RUNG WE CHIR TE Nice.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, good. Now, just to repeat the question. The other guy said, look, you've been hung up on referring to KUN ZHI, especially the refrigerator part, as being a ripening of karma.

But why didn't you mention the eye, ear, nose, tongue, body also as ripenings of karma? Aren't they ripenings of karma? And we say, hey, look, no problem.

No problem. When we're talking about ripening here, we're talking about ripenings, which are LUNG MA BSTAN. Neutral.

Neutral, okay? Got it? There's your answer already, Wern.

There's your answer already. If I say, oh, let's play a game, Wern. I'm thinking about a karmic ripening, which is always neutral.

It's not desirable. It's not undesirable. It's just in the middle, always.

Then guess what I'm talking about?

[Speaker 2]
MIG SOGS DBANG PO NA No, no, no.

[Speaker 1]
You can have good eyes. You can have bad eyes.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, but the KUN ZHI in general, I mean.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, KUN ZHI. It's always just the neutral thing. Okay.

All right. Tsongkapa says, look, the reason I use the word ripening only for the KUN ZHI is that I meant ripening in the sense of a ripening of neutral karma. Okay?

Yeah, because the eyes, ears, you can have good ones. You can have bad ones. You can be born without good ears.

You can be born with good eyes. Okay? And I'm also talking about a karmic ripening, which lasts SEMS RGYAS GZIGS PAR DU.

[Speaker 2]
It lasts your whole life.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, until the end of your life. RGYUN MI CHE.

[Speaker 2]
In an unbroken stream.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and by the way, that's not true of the eye, the ear, the nose. Okay? People lose their hearing.

People lose their eyesight. But you don't lose your KUN ZHI until you die. Okay?

Or not even then, I guess. All right.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, you do, but CHI MA.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and it picks up in the next moment. Yeah. It's like somebody passing a baton in a race or something, right?

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
LUNG GI DGRA BANG RGYAS PHANG PA'I DER BU YIN PA STE. When you're talking about karmic ripenings that are projected by previous good deeds or bad deeds, then those ripenings can have three different formats, can't they? Which are good eyes, bad eyes.

[Speaker 2]
Neutral eye.

[Speaker 1]
Neutral eye. Okay. Okay.

When you're opening up the discussion to things which have been projected by good karma, bad karma, middling karma, then you're going to have results of three different types. Pleasurable ones, painful ones, and in-between ones. But the fact is KUN ZHI, along with its retinue, can never be those other ones.

It can never be. That's not the case that someone can have a better KUN ZHI than another person. It's always neutral.

All right. Keep going.

[Speaker 2]
MA BYAS BLONG MA BSTAN TE DGE MI DGE YI RNAMS NGON THUN DGE BA MED LA DGE BA THANG MI DGE BA NI RIM PA BZHIN MI DGE BA THANG DGE BA'I RNAMS DGE BA'I RNAMS NI THUD RGYAL TE DE NI MI MTHUN PA THANG NYON PO YIN PA'I PHYIR Yeah, now this is an interesting, now we're getting into a very tricky, we're getting into tricky territory.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. How shall we say? Something which was neutral.

How do we say? Something which is karmically neutral can manifest maturations of good and bad karma. That's a principle of KUN ZHI.

Okay, KUN ZHI is neutral. KUN ZHI doesn't have a strong stink already, right? So it's available to be colored or to be imprinted with good seeds or bad seeds, okay?

By itself, KUN ZHI is neutral. Like a sweater. And if you rub fish on the sweater, or if you rub expensive perfume on the sweater, it can take that aspect, right?

It can assume that aspect of stinking or smelling great.

[Speaker 2]
Garlic or jasmine.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, but in and of itself, it's neutral. Now, so there's no problem with saying that a neutral thing can take on a pleasant aspect or an unpleasant aspect, meaning the result of good deeds or bad deeds. That's RGYAL BA MED.

That's no problem. That's no problem. But something which is by nature already a good deed or a bad deed cannot respectively take on an aspect of being a bad deed and a good deed.

Therefore, KUN ZHI has to be neutral. If KUN ZHI was RGYAL BA, it could never take on an aspect of being MI RGYAL BA. Okay, it has to be neutral because it is going to take on the aspects of fish and perfume later, okay?

Got it? Therefore, it cannot itself be a good deed or a bad deed. Because it has to be available to be stinked up either way.

If it were already a good deed, it couldn't take on all the aspects, including bad deeds. If it was already a bad deed, it couldn't take on the aspects of being a good deed. Because those two are RGYAL BA, okay?

Those two are RGYAL BA. And they are inconsistent with each other. And in fact, they are counter-agents for each other.

Okay, so he's using... He says good karma and bad karma are mutually contradictory. Why?

Well, they're not the same type. And also, in fact, they act to prevent each other. Okay, therefore, KUN ZHI must be karmically neutral.

It has to be available to take on a good aspect and a bad aspect, okay? Yep. Okay, keep playing.

[Speaker 2]
KEL TE. NGE BA NI RGYAL BA NAMEN THANG MI RGYAL BA NI RGYAL BA NAMEN THUNG RGYAL BA MED PAS NAMEN LUNG MA TEN KHO NAR NGON NGE SO ZHEN NA Yeah, now the guy gives a cute answer, okay?

[Speaker 1]
We said KUN ZHI has to be neutral because it has to be available to become good deed or bad deed. And if it was already a good deed, it couldn't become a bad deed. And if it was already a bad deed, it couldn't become a good deed.

And then the guy comes back with what Amalie would say, I'm sure. Well, what about a case where, well, if it was already a good deed, it could keep being a good deed. And if it was already a bad deed, it could keep being a bad deed.

No problem, okay? KUN ZHI doesn't have to be neutral because what if KUN ZHI was always virtue, good karma, and then it just kept being good karma? It already smelled like perfume and you sprayed perfume on perfume, okay?

Or you smeared dog poop with, I don't know, something stinky, okay? Well, there's no problem with that, right? That would be okay, right?

Okay, that's what he's saying. Got it? Therefore, LUS MA BSTAN KHO NOR MA NGA'I.

Therefore, it's not certain that KUN ZHI always has to be currently neutral because there could theoretically be cases where KUN ZHI started out as a good deed and then continued to be a good deed. Okay, got it? It's awful quiet over there.

I got it. How come when I offer money, he just jumps up? And then when I...

How come so? Okay, all right. Here we go.

Please read the next. By the way, what are you expecting in the next sentence? Tell me what are you expecting?

I mean, what do you think's gonna, the answer's gonna involve something, right? What?

[Speaker 2]
Well, I was just thinking if that was true, then how could there be either good or bad experiences in the world? There could only be one. It's a perfect answer.

[Speaker 1]
It's a perfect answer. Okay, I'm glad I didn't offer money, okay? Anticipating the reply can help you so much in translating the next section.

You can guess what it's supposed to say. Now you just have to confirm it and you're not starting from scratch. So always, always, always in translating, imagine what the guy's gonna say next.

And then 50% of your job is finished and you can go a lot faster and more accurate. Okay, here we go. DED TA.

[Speaker 2]
And even if I'm not accurate, no one understands this stuff. So whatever I write is gonna be okay.

[Speaker 1]
Whether or not future generations understand this stuff is up to one person. Approve your reasoning, George. Okay, you can change the pattern.

That's in fact, your unique job in this life. Here we go. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
DED TA.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. God, this guy is hard. Just as you predicted, DE LTAR NA If it was the case that KUN ZHI could be virtuous because it doesn't have to contradict itself later.

It could just keep being virtuous. Well, if that were the way it is, then once your mind was screwed up, it would be dopamine.

[Speaker 2]
It would be unable to be unscrewed up?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and it would be screwed up forever. If KUN ZHI can be karmically flavored because one flavor can continue the same flavor, then okay, but then you're going to be messed up forever and you will never have a good karma maturation in your mind. Okay, got it?

KUN DU RGYUR means there is the problem. There's a word. The inconsistency arises.

That your klesha state of mind would be unstoppable. Ever. DE LTAR RNAMS MIN NI TSE LAS THAMS CAD DU JI ZHIG PAR DU RGYUR MI CHED DU SBYUG PA NA That kind of karmic maturation, negative one, would continue with you for as many lifetimes as you ever live.

Until you die in each lifetime. RGYUR MI CHED PA Without ever any interruption. On the other hand, if KUN ZHI was karmically virtuous because it could always create another karmically virtuous entity, then DGE SEM...

Oh, I'm sorry. If a good karma tried to intervene into that negative karma, KUN ZHI, DGE GCIG KYANG RGYUD MI CHED DU SBYUG PA I'm sorry. It's the same problem with a good karma.

If good karma came up, then it would have to continue without any interruption.

[Speaker 2]
SBYUG PA And that counts as well, right?

[Speaker 1]
KUN NAS NYON MA PA'I SKYE BA'I SKABS MED LA And then you would never have a situation for a single moment in your mind that you could get angry or jealous or have desire. There would be no such opportunity. LUNG DU BRAL BA'I BDAG PA'AM MED DO What had come before would never stop.

Whichever state was preceding, it would continue. If it was good, it would continue good. If it was bad, it would continue bad.

Therefore, I say KUN ZHI has to be karmically...

[Speaker 2]
Neutral.

[Speaker 1]
Neutral.

[Speaker 2]
Yay, here we go. KUN NAS NYON MA PA'I SKYE BA'I SKYE BA'I SKABS MED LA Is the PA'AM MED DO, is that saying ME and GAG are positives? Or is it saying...

[Speaker 1]
It means also there could never end. Also what had come before could never come to an end. If it was good, it would have to be good forever.

If it was bad, it would have to be forever. The way you started out would never stop. That's all.

I'm going to put it here. The way you started out could never stop. That's all.

[Speaker 2]
You know what's scary? This means I was right.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, which means it's extremely difficult to anticipate what's coming next in this particular discussion. It's a tough discussion. If you can pause between paragraphs and think about what he might say next, you will become a great translator.

Because he is following a logical flow and you just have to ride it. You have to grab onto his coattails. But if you just say, oh, what's the next word to say, and then you just translate that, you also won't get much continuity in your translation.

All right. So always pause between paragraphs. And as a game to yourself, try to guess what he's going to say next, and you'll be a great translator.

All right. Here we go. Two minutes, Keshela.

All right.

[Speaker 2]
Woo! So we're Namingi Mgewa? Yeah.

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Namingi Mgewa, you know. Mgewe sem gunmechepe. Nenpokewe kapme la temepe chir.

Kunne nyongmongpa ndokpar min gyoro.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, he's just repeating the same idea. Namingi Mgewa, you know. If we had bad karma, ripening from bad karma, which is what we said we wanted to be possible, then there could be no case where the non-virtuous state of mind could be interrupted by an antidote, meaning a virtuous state of mind, right?

Kapme means there could be no such instance possible. And because that was not possible, your f-ed up state of mind, dokpar min gyoro, would never stop being... Yeah, you could never put a stop to it.

Then you might as well shoot yourself or something, okay? It wouldn't matter. We'd go to the next light.

Yeah, that's true. Because of those two Zimba bokchaks, right? We have time for one more sentence here.

It's pretty cool.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, getza, that's fun. Okay. Shenyang.

Getza chepe kangsakla getzem nyunkyor tu yupa so. Ta ye so. Teyicher ma jirplungma ten konar nge so.

[Speaker 1]
And yeah, and you know, Tsongkhapa wants to get in one more thing before the period ends, right? Anyway, moreover, moreover, what about these people who getza che? Who cut their root of virtue.

Yeah. So they would also have a virtuous state of mind left over because they had virtuous state of mind in their past life.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
And they can't be interrupted, according to you. The problems, the wen teas, are ta ye so. Infinite.

Yeah, I mean, come on. I could keep telling you problems with this idea. Therefore, kun shi ma jirplungma ten konar.

[Speaker 2]
Is definitely only neutral without causing an obstacle.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, cool. Yay. Yay.

Tsongkhapa has proven that kun shi has to be neutral, like a sweater, which can't accept the smell of perfume or fish. Or spaghetti. Okay.

Spaghetti sauce. Okay. That means Fearless Blade covered this well too.

Yeah, I think, you know, my respect for Fearless Blade has grown because he set out to present a simplified version of Tsongkhapa's text and he did a great job. And your translation, and I repeat, your translation is the most important book on the mind-building that I'm aware of. So you got to milk it.

You got to spread it. That's your life's mission. Don't translate that book and put it on the shelf and go on.

Take that book in your hand and go teach around the world. Yay.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you, Dan.

[Speaker 1]
Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you. Yay.

[Speaker 1]
Xiaoping. Yes? I will check the schedule one more time and send you that little bit modified CSP date that you asked for a little bit more spread out.