Вордсмит — Книга 2: Трудные места школы «Ум только», занятие 70

[Speaker 1]
Hi, everybody. So, welcome back. About a month ago, we had a class discussing the MindOnly school.

That was also a team class, so we have no idea what's going on. And so, we need your help. Or you can join the party of also not knowing.

It's pretty fun. So, I'm just going to continue from where we left off. Echo, echo, echo.

I don't want to go back over what we didn't know last time. So, here we go. I'm saving my homework until Geshe-la.

I have a class with Geshe-la because he's going to check the translation. All right. Here we go.

So, we are in the middle of a discussion about the negative consciousness, which is a consciousness which is posited only by the MindOnly school of Buddhism. And it's said to be negative and be the reason why you feel bad all the time, etc. And this part of our discussion about it, Jason Kappa, the author of our text, says there are two systems regarding an aspect of it by the two main propounders, the main guys.

I think it's both. Proponents, you can look it up, of the MindOnly school, Yogacharya school. And he doesn't say who, but we're pretty sure it's Master Arya Sangha and Master Vasubandhu.

So, they just gave a quote from Dunsang, which is a famous book, which nobody knows who wrote. All right. They suspect it's Master Vasubandhu, which would make sense for this section because that's probably who we're talking about.

But we don't know. So, we just had that quote and we're wrapping it up. And then we're on to the second position of the second guy, who's probably Arya Sangha.

Okay. That's where we are on the book. And here we go.

Who wants to read? Tien, are you doing anything? Are you Jessica?

Jessica?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Good. Okay. You got to help me translate it.

You ready? Yeah. Okay.

Anyone can jump in too. We're just going to have fun. Okay.

Aditya? If in that case? Yeah.

I think it'd be both if in that case, or therefore.

[Speaker 2]
This system.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. This system. Good.

I don't know why there's a key before it. Uh-oh.

[Speaker 2]
Before it confuses, it's strange. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
I think it's saying the systems.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. What can this mean, Jessica?

[Speaker 2]
Maybe also, or but. We don't know yet.

[Speaker 1]
Perfect. Good. Nyamsak.

[Speaker 2]
Nyamsak is the meditation. What meditation? Balance meditation.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. But what particular one have they been talking about?

[Speaker 2]
We're talking about the cessation meditation when we're in deep meditation and we stop the negative emotions, state of mind.

[Speaker 1]
No, no, no. This one is, that's Nyamjo. This one is an Arya Seeing Emptiness Directed, the meditation.

So the section of the book we're in is discussing how and when and if you can stop the negative consciousness from being negative. Because basically every school of Buddhism says, maybe everyone, I don't know. I'm just covering my butt.

Probably everyone says at some point you can get out of suffering, right? So in the Mind-Only School, for that to be the case, this book is in the Mind-Only School. So for that to be the case, the negative part of your mind has to be stopped somehow.

So that's the question. So when you're having the direct perception of emptiness, during that period, you can't have any regular kind of thoughts, any discursive kind of thoughts. So that would mean that at least during that time, temporarily, you stop the negativity.

Okay. So what's this Na, Jessica? Na is if.

Yeah. So if during the meditation, it also says in the system's view, I don't know, that the Nyungpa Shi.

[Speaker 2]
For negative emotions.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. What are they? Anybody?

Just quick review.

[Speaker 2]
What was that?

[Speaker 1]
Pride. What else? The pride that says me, in this case.

Next. Wrong view. Yeah.

The wrong view of thinking there is a me. Yes. Next.

Anger. Not in this case. No.

Desire. The desire for you to feel good. The me that doesn't really exist to feel good.

And some kind of delusional state, like some kind of mistaken state. I think I got them. Those four are Nyungar.

Nyungar to me.

[Speaker 2]
It's not.

[Speaker 1]
Nyungar, Kokyur, Shintu, Kokyur. Very. What's Nyungar here?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Good. Tim, Nick, good. Both of you.

Yeah. So when you're having the direct perception of emptiness, in this system, they have to admit that during that time, you can't have any obvious, you can't have those four mental negative emotions in any kind of obvious way. Right?

Because you can't have.

[Speaker 2]
Manifest.

[Speaker 1]
Exactly. Manifest in any kind of a way where they show themselves because nothing but emptiness shows itself during that time.

[Speaker 2]
Yes. Therefore.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Good. Therefore.

[Speaker 2]
Due to that.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Beautiful. I don't know due to what.

There's a couple possibilities. Maybe due to the fact that they're not manifest. Okay.

Um, and then you have to go to the end here.

[Speaker 2]
Don't have the negative, negative mind.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. You don't have the negative consciousness, which is nyokpa. What?

Oscar, we did this nyokpa. Do you remember?

[Speaker 2]
Of course not.

[Speaker 1]
It's in a letter to a student.

[Speaker 2]
Like dirty or something like that. Or like stained.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Exactly, Tim. Yeah.

So this kind of goes together. Dream much and do nyokpa. Right.

So let's see. This is an interesting qualifier. So he doesn't say you can't have the nyoni at all.

He's saying you can't have a version of the nyoni, negative consciousness, the negative part of your mind that causes all your negativities. You can't have a version which is stained or dirty or messed up. So that's a maingak, right?

What is the maingak there? What is the negative thing that's being implied?

[Speaker 2]
Well, then in some way you could have a clean nyoni in the first place.

[Speaker 1]
Exactly. Exactly. And that's what you're trying to discuss.

Do you pull this thing out of your brain and then it's destroyed somehow? Or is it there but neutralized somehow? That's the question.

Those are the questions being asked. All right. Great, Tim.

Kian?

[Speaker 2]
Also a but.

[Speaker 1]
This is almost definitely but. All right. I didn't read it either.

I think it's a disjunctive. He's saying even though you can't have a nyoni which is all stained because there's nothing you can have manifest, including those four negativities, if you are in the meditation, says this system. But, Yi, what's the problem with this Yi, Oscar?

[Speaker 2]
We don't know if it's a nyoni or the sixth one.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, we don't know if it's negative consciousness or just the mind in general. What is our precedent for the fact that this could be negative consciousness?

[Speaker 2]
Just because the subject of the last part, the last sentence was nyoni. The title of the book?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're both right, but I was going for the second. Yeah, Venerable Upa.

Yeah, the title of the book. And it's a tradition in Mind-Only School. Sen can mean kunshi.

Yi can mean negative consciousness, like nyoni. And nampar she can mean the mental consciousness, just regular mind. And so, it can be very confusing.

Here, I think it's nyoni, okay? Because he says nyoni te. He says Yi te.

He says that Yi, which he just mentioned, okay? Is she dangdrel? We just had a dangdrel, Tim.

Yeah, what was the dangdrel we just had, Tim?

[Speaker 2]
It's in my text. I know.

[Speaker 1]
What she just said, Jessica just said it.

[Speaker 2]
What's your dangdrel, Tim? This is what was dangdrel.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah. What's your dangdrel? What was it?

Something like that. What the Buddha says is free from any problems. Anyway, yeah, this is free of those four.

What is he talking about, Jessica?

[Speaker 2]
We talk about the four negative emotions that we just list down.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, each consciousness, according to the Mind-Only School, has a core or a group of different mental functions that follow it around. And we spent like four months ago or something, we were talking all about it.

And that's why he keeps mentioning it. And so, this negative consciousness has the four, which we just talked about, pride, wrong view, some kind of mental delusion, and some kind of wrong desire. Yeah, so that's what he's saying.

But he says, hey, but the negative consciousness is free of those four bad things. Or maybe this is also then, it doesn't seem as disjunctive as I thought it was. And it's sakme, Jessica.

[Speaker 2]
Sakme is not anyone?

[Speaker 1]
No, that's kongsakme. Sakme means not stained. It's not been stained by samsara or something like that.

It's not samsaric. Sakme to kyrpa.

[Speaker 2]
Kyrpa is to occur or happen?

[Speaker 1]
And here it's just is. This is an adjectival clause or something. It is not stained.

Dupa.

[Speaker 2]
Dupa, the desire.

[Speaker 1]
Not here. Anybody? What's this, Dupa?

They say, they accept. Yeah, good. Famer's right, I think.

That's what they think. And then, here you go, Jessica. He says it's therefore.

Yeah, therefore. I don't know if this is if or it goes with the therefore. I think it's like pena.

I think so.

[Speaker 2]
I think that's right. I think it's just a heavier therefore.

[Speaker 1]
I agree. So, therefore, we say that it's just a dakken. Does anyone remember a dakken?

[Speaker 2]
Sometimes he calls it the dominant condition or the dominant factor.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. I like calling it the boss factor. The boss factor.

[Speaker 2]
That's a good way to remember it.

[Speaker 1]
Because this dak is actually short for dakpo. And dakpo means boss. But anyway, it means a condition that is held within a particular entity or thing.

So, I have no idea why they just said it here, but that's what dakken means.

[Speaker 2]
I guess they're saying that there is some underlying condition for the existence of the nyunyi because they accept that there is one there that is not overtly stained within a deep meditation. There is something there that's free of the stain of the four overt afflictions. And so, there's some dakken there.

There is some, you know, essentially some underlying thing that allows for or triggers the nyunyi.

[Speaker 1]
Right. That makes sense. Because there has to be something which makes it have a continuation of existence, even if it doesn't exist for a particular time.

So, even though during that time, it may be dreamachendunukpe me, that it has to somehow exist or come back or reassert itself after the meditation.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, right. Even though it's dakme, it's unstained in the sense of being free of those four, meaning the overt four. But there's something there.

And I would guess that that dakken, especially in this case, is what will act as a factor for the continued existence of that nyunyi as the person comes out of meditation.

[Speaker 1]
Exactly. So, this dakken is basically the opposite of this nyungur.

[Speaker 2]
Mm-hmm. It's the underlying thing that's not overt or manifest.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah, not manifest.

[Speaker 2]
Manifest, but it's a kind of thing that doesn't show itself. I think there's a difference. It's not like there is none, because there is.

It is there. But I think the nyungur is about being a taking form. It is there.

[Speaker 1]
So, I think this is not perfect.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, right.

[Speaker 1]
It's not there as something that would show itself, and this is there as something that doesn't show itself.

[Speaker 2]
Uh-huh.

[Speaker 1]
That's what I think.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, right, right. And the reason they think there has to be something underlying there is because they say there is a temporarily unstained version in which the afflictions are not manifest.

[Speaker 1]
Well, they have to say something, because it can't be if you're having direct perception of emptiness, so they have to come up with something, and that's what they come up with. Yeah, exactly. All right.

Okay, I hope everyone's following. Thank you, translators. This is impossible in every language.

Okay, thanks, Jessica. That was great. Thank you so much.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
Very impressive. Yeah, she's good. All right, who wants to read this next line?

Don't be scared. No one? Come on.

Chloe, come on. What are you doing? I caught you.

Come on. Hi. Great.

Perfect. I'm not going to make you translate it, but you can if you want. So, now we're on to Luke Nipah.

What's Luke Nipah? And it's not the second sheep.

[Speaker 2]
The second point of this view. And now it's another point of view.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, there's two people.

[Speaker 2]
Of course.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, this is now we're on to a new point of view. Yeah, we've just had like one, two, three, four, five, six lines on one point of view, right? So, he said, Luke Dangpo, way back here, because there was Neljor, Chöpe, Lopon, Nyi.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
So, that was the first one. We just finished the first point of view. He says, it's a Dakyin.

That's why. Okay. That was his first conclusion.

So, now we're seeing this other person who's probably Arya Sangha. Now, they're saying, Nam Shakna.

[Speaker 2]
In that meditation.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, if we're in, I don't know which one, but in that meditation.

[Speaker 2]
The one that meditating.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I think you're right. During the meditation, right? During the direct perception of emptiness, Yi, me, you.

[Speaker 2]
Of course, there's a Yi.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, what does Yi probably mean, Tim? Probably means negative consciousness. Yeah, probably means negative consciousness.

You never actually know, probably. Negative consciousness during the meditation. But.

But, if we go into that a little deeper, it's Sak Che.

[Speaker 2]
It's still there.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, our last point of view said, well, yeah, it's there, but it's Sak Me. This is the opposite. She says, yeah, it's there, but it's Sak Che.

It does still have stains. That's what he thinks. That's what I believe.

[Speaker 2]
All right. Yeah, that's what those guys think. So, if we're talking about whether or not it is stained, then don't you think maybe we're talking about just the sixth consciousness and not Yunyi?

No, I just think it's all consciousness. Is Yunyi stainless? Well, you know, it's funny you should ask.

Because I think the very next line.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, exactly.

No, this whole section is about Yunyi. So, I think it's almost definitely that he's almost definitely Yunyi. So, we'll go further, but he's got to be some twist.

How could it be stained and you'd be in a meditation which is unstained, blah, blah, blah. There's got to be a twist on it.

[Speaker 2]
And it would be controversial indeed to say that somehow your sixth consciousness disappears in the direct perception.

[Speaker 1]
Yes.

[Speaker 2]
I'm not aware of anyone who has that position.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. I believe you. All right, who wants to read that?

Tay, I want to tell you some more about why I believe that. It's a cliffhanger. Who wants to read this line?

[Speaker 2]
I'll read a word.

[Speaker 1]
Gibson, you do it. The next one.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, okay, cool.

[Speaker 1]
What's Nicholas?

[Speaker 2]
Well then, well then. Those stained negativities, there are stained. Are there stained negativities present?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it's a question.

[Speaker 2]
There are not.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, exactly. So, Shana means, okay, well, then someone comes along and asks after this controversial statement is made, someone comes along and asks, question mark. Well, are there stained negativities or not?

I guess during the meditation. I mean, there are definitely. Yeah, in general, there are.

Okay. And he says, aren't there? Wait, no, he says, are there?

And he says, no.

[Speaker 2]
But that doesn't say that there's something not, it doesn't mean that the nunya is not there. It's just saying that there's no, there's not any negative negativities that are present. It doesn't mean that the state of mind is not there.

[Speaker 1]
But they must be winning, winning, winning their way to this whole thing about how the four are connected to the nunya. And so, it must be going that, I think it's going that way, because that's what we've been talking about. But I agree with Tim.

[Speaker 2]
I just, just as a, an elementary point of clarification word, we, we would typically define the nunya as that thing, which looks at the refrigerator consciousness and misunderstands it to be me. Is that true?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, that's one of the four mental afflictions, four negative emotions.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, right. But if it were defined that way, right, then obviously this is the conundrum we're in, because then it's not meeting its definition when it's not misunderstanding.

[Speaker 1]
Correct. And furthermore, Taeyang, the full name for the nunya is the Nyong Mong Bayi. So, yeah, so it's, it's, it's not just the negative consciousness, it's the negative emotion consciousness.

Actually, that's the full name. So, they could be going there with it too. So, it's like, so you're saying the nunya isn't Nyong?

Right, right. Yeah. I don't know, Jason Coppice is without the Nyong all the time, so yes.

[Speaker 2]
Right, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. So, let's see. I, I don't know, I haven't read the argument, not that I would understand it.

All right. Who, oh, I promised somebody, somebody's torture.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, yeah. Yeah, what's that mean? Moreover, how could it be stained?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, or this is like, otherwise, it's close to, it's like, otherwise, yeah, otherwise, yeah. How, how could it be stained? Wait, Gibson, did, I think they misspelled this shea, it should be this, right?

[Speaker 2]
Oh, I, so it's a shea. Word, man, that was bold, though. You just changed it, no parentheses.

Well, wait a minute. No percent sign.

[Speaker 1]
I'm joking. After an S, it becomes shea. I'm trying to trick Gibson.

I see.

[Speaker 2]
I thought, yeah, we're going to have a version control problem. All right.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, not at all. After, this means the same exact thing, okay, everybody? It's just, it depends on the last letter.

They change it, okay? Western Tibetan grammar is highly dependent on the last letter, okay, as far as spelling. Okay, cool.

Anyway, so what do y'all think? They're asking now, how is it stained? How's it, how's this relevant?

[Speaker 2]
Ah, she doesn't have an answer. Well, because the stained, because the negative consciousness seems like it needs to be stained, so.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. So, I mean, I think it follows after this question, because it's saying, well, well.

[Speaker 2]
Is it stained by negativities?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. And they say, no, it's not.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. So, and what do you mean by sakhpa then?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, exactly. So, they're like, okay, well, then how is it stained? What are you talking about?

I don't get it. Okay. Okay.

So, we're supposed to get clarification. Okay. Who wants to read?

Thank you, Gibson. That was perfect. Anybody?

Chiyo, are you there? Everyone's asleep already. Oh, okay.

Do you want to read this? It's kind of long. Okay.

Good. It's good to hesitate. Think about it.

All right, go ahead.

[Speaker 3]
Nga.

[Speaker 1]
Nga.

[Speaker 3]
Nga. Yes. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Ne pa.

[Speaker 3]
Ne pa. Chi tang tak nha. Nha.

Nha. Ah, the same word. Nha.

Nha sok tok pey. Nha. Yi chen.

Nha. Ki. Nha.

Lang chik. HL Kwan, yes. No way?

Yes.

[Speaker 2]
Yes.

[Speaker 3]
Natshosu. Yey. Yay.

Natshosu. Simpa, check, trip. Yedpe, napa, chikten, nicho la.

Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
Yay. Good. OK.

Well, this is clear now. It is. At least this one, we don't know if the other Yi's were this one, but it says Dun Yi.

Why does it say Dun? Does anybody know? I mean, Ben Kramer knows.

Why does it say Dun, Ben Kramer?

[Speaker 2]
The other seven consciousnesses. Or the seven. The seven.

I think.

[Speaker 1]
Dun Pei. Dun Pei Yun Yi. Yeah.

So in this school, mind only, there's eight consciousnesses. Every other school has six. So they gave the Yun Yi the seventh place.

I don't know why. And then they gave the Kun Shi the eighth place, the foundation consciousness. So sometimes they just call them their number.

And sometimes they call the regular mind Zhuge, the sixth place, okay? So just so you know. So the seventh consciousness, Di, this seventh consciousness, La, let's talk about it.

Kun Shi La.

[Speaker 2]
Index or something, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
I, me. This can just be Di La, like about that thing, Ben. Like Te La or Di La.

Let's talk about it. Yeah. It pays.

Please. Yeah. It looks.

It looks with a Ngadak.

[Speaker 2]
An idea of me.

[Speaker 1]
A me, me. I, I. An I, which is like a self, at the Kun Shi, at the foundation consciousness.

So when it looks at the foundation consciousness, it has an idea that that's me. All right. Okay.

And, yeah. And this Kepa's.

[Speaker 2]
Gives rise. Generates.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. No.

[Speaker 2]
All right. Being bummed out about stuff.

[Speaker 1]
And being happy and then being bummed out. Yeah. This gives rise to negative emotions.

That's what it's Nupa is. It's singular Nupa.

[Speaker 2]
It's one that only does. That's one ability.

[Speaker 1]
It's one and only power is it looks at the foundation consciousness. And it's, and it thinks, hey, that's a me. And because of that, it's like the first thing in the wheel of life.

It. It. It creates all, all negative emotions come from that.

In this school. Okay. And furthermore.

Oh. The tongue is.

[Speaker 2]
Borovitz expressions. Ideas.

[Speaker 1]
I think it's terms here. Yeah. Because I think it's terms.

Okay. Can be a couple of things. Conventions, terms.

I don't know. The, the not so. Terms.

[Speaker 2]
Lots of different ones.

[Speaker 1]
The various terms, which are. Yeah. Which are dope.

But.

[Speaker 2]
A fixed. Which we apply.

[Speaker 1]
Applied. Fixed labeled. This dope.

Is most famously in the pen. When, when you go like this. The verb.

In this language. Which. Is.

Is. You're. Labeling.

A. A. A thing.

From a seed. Onto a white. Smooth.

Long. Cylinder. Okay.

So it's used differently in this school, but it's the same. Verb. All right.

And this is with your. Yes. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Mental consciousness.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. I wish he did this the whole book. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
I know. I was just wondering why he hasn't.

[Speaker 1]
I don't know. I don't know. I think it was like the cool thing.

The cool kids did. In the mind only books. They'll just say ye and Sam.

It comes from the journey to Lanka or something. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Did he ever use the word ye word in this book? Just plain old ye to mean. Mind and not.

Negative consciousness.

[Speaker 1]
I'm fairly certain he did. Yes.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah.

But maybe it's arguable. I don't know. We'd have to go back.

Maybe we didn't know. And now we have to go back. I don't know.

Because we kind of caught onto it in the middle. Right. I mean, even though the title is like that in the middle, he identifies the fact that that's what he's doing.

Yeah. Okay. Okay.

When they talk about achieving nirvana, different schools. Okay. So the mental consciousness is Hlenchik.

[Speaker 2]
Simultaneous. Comes with.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. It goes together with. It was with it.

Starts together. Yes. Yeah.

It starts at the same time. And what it does is it dogs.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Exactly. So all the it's saying, Hey, all the seven conscious does is makes you upset at stuff, but it's the, it's the mental consciousness, which is constantly churning out all these labels. It's a 10 for that.

It's a 10, which does that. It's the basis. Yeah.

It's the foundation. It's the basis, which performs that function. All the way to just grasping stuff.

[Speaker 2]
I don't know. Yeah. Yeah.

We have to read the what's coming next.

[Speaker 1]
Memorizing the Dharma.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Yeah. Because look, what's coming next.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
I just glanced obstacles to omniscience and stuff.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yeah. So, okay.

So due to that, or because of that, or I don't know, share drips arise.

[Speaker 2]
Looks like, Oh, obstacles to missions, obstacles to knowledge, as they say.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. There's two kinds of obstacles for people who don't know. One is obstacles, which cause like negative emotions.

And then the other are obstacles, which stop you from knowing everything in the world, knowing everything in the universe. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
And then in this school and in some schools, and I'm not sure if here, the implication is because sometimes it's true that one of those is more closely associated with misunderstanding things than persons.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yeah. I think first misunderstanding things is young monks, negative emotions and then misunderstanding people is shade drips.

Maybe.

[Speaker 2]
It could be the other way around. You might be right.

[Speaker 1]
Really?

[Speaker 2]
I'm not sure. Yeah. I'm afraid.

I'm not so sure.

[Speaker 1]
Cause usually things is first.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. But unfortunately I think things is sometimes considered more subtle.

[Speaker 1]
I think you're right. I've seen that as well. Okay.

Don't know.

[Speaker 2]
Deal.

[Speaker 1]
Developing those obstacles to seeing everything in the universe is the nupa chick.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. It's the one ability.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. It's the singular function of, I guess, the Ishe with its mislabeling. That's weird.

It's all very, this is all very weird.

[Speaker 2]
That's a really good point.

[Speaker 1]
Except your backyard. That doesn't look weird. That looks very nice.

[Speaker 2]
It's interesting that seeing the refrigerator consciousness as a me is not considered a Tanya like a label in the same way. It seems like it's something deeper than that.

[Speaker 1]
I think it's something less deep than that. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Right. Or not as yeah.

Right. Yeah. I don't know.

That's an interesting question. I don't know which is deeper, but it's something different. You're not just calling it me.

You're thinking of it as me.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. I hear you.

[Speaker 2]
I don't know. Seeing it as right. Literally, I guess.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Dana. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Yeah. I agree.

There's some distinction being made. Right.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Explain. What's this knee here though?

[Speaker 2]
Oh, I take that to mean the function of the versus the function of the and I would say that that's this. Isn't that the second point?

[Speaker 1]
I think it's saying that makes two.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Right. The first one.

Right. The singular function of the versus the singular function of the shape of a singular function of the afflictive consciousness versus the singular function of the mental awareness of your own thoughts.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Okay. Maybe.

[Speaker 2]
I think they each do their thing.

[Speaker 1]
You can say don't need meaning in total. Those are the two or something like that.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Right. And those two are present or something.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yeah. I think you is used for calculations, by the way.

Like one plus one.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. I'm pretty sure we've seen that before.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Makes two. Yeah.

Makes two.

[Speaker 2]
Usually actually. Sorry.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

That makes two.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. I suspect.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Yeah. With those two present.

Then there's a day law.

[Speaker 1]
I don't know about the law here at all.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, it's pretty weird.

[Speaker 1]
Guess let's split the verses. You're a lot Taylor, that's seems. Yeah, without a shade, it's kind of strange.

Without, without a little, without a comma, which represents a punctuation mark, which is kind of like a period. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Well, it would be nice if that law is going to. Elaborate. If this lies.

If you know, in regards to those who are going to talk about the first of the two, and hopefully this paragraph will shed some light on. What they're talking. Yeah.

The first of these two on the singular ability of the, the afflictive consciousness, focusing on the refrigerator consciousness in a way that generates me, me, mental affliction obstacles, right, as opposed to obstacles to omniscience.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I think that's what's happening. That's why he says don't go.

[Speaker 2]
Right.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. All right, let's check it out. Very good.

Very good. Who wants to read. It's not long, Oscar.

Do you want to read it.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
All right.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, good. Good. All right.

You read it so well you have to help me translate Taylor.

[Speaker 2]
From that.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, on that point on that subject. All right. Tony.

[Speaker 2]
The first means for the first is.

[Speaker 1]
This just means firstly, the knee just goes with the dumpling. First, first of all, or first firstly, the young one, Jen.

[Speaker 2]
Possessing normal mind and all the mind with negative emotions.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, this is another way to say. New Year. Usually they say no more.

No more chain. No more changing, I think. But for some reason he switched it.

I think the negative consciousness. It joke jays.

[Speaker 2]
It blends.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Uh huh. Puts our plans perfect.

Very good. It can be plant in this school as well. And you might be right.

I don't know yet. It is it is the planter actually is what it's saying. Okay, Ching.

[Speaker 2]
Also.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Uh huh. Good.

[Speaker 2]
Moreover.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, for morally over furtherly more. GC. You have to know a little less.

No, until this means until or until such time. And for some reason, they use the negative when they say these phrases. So, this does not mean not eliminate this means eliminate.

So, until such time as you have. Okay. Yeah, exactly.

Good. Tim, you've eliminated my loop.

[Speaker 2]
All of the new ones, negative emotions.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, good. And now the GC. Huh.

[Speaker 2]
Echoing, of course, the very famous definition to Nirvana.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. One by one elimination of each and every obstacle.

Yeah. Yeah. The DC goes with the GC.

Yeah. You have eliminated. And then it's going to tell you the rest.

What would happens until you've eliminated all of them. You will, you will juke.

[Speaker 2]
Enter into a stuck in engaging.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I think it's just engage here engage in my report. Yes.

[Speaker 2]
Misunderstanding.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, misunderstanding and powers, which are low.

[Speaker 2]
As backwards to use, it's going to say and then I stop myself. Don't worry. That's backwards.

[Speaker 1]
And, yeah, I don't know what this not is, I don't know, it could have been if I'm not sure.

[Speaker 2]
Richard. I would. Yes, in this case it's dope because you will have to return to that state as long as you haven't eliminated them in their entirety because we're still talking about this.

They have meditation in which they're not removed yet.

[Speaker 1]
I think it's stop here dope because I because it says side.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Okay. Okay stop them.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Yeah, because, because if you, if you, if you do stop negative wrong views and misunderstanding. I'm on the level of a side get by a level bodhisattva.

Yeah, what's special about that level, Tim.

[Speaker 2]
You don't have negative emotions anymore. Yeah. You're a job.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, exactly. You're a bodhisattva, but you're also a bodhisattva who doesn't have negative emotions. What's this yen mean it's short for something.

I give a yen. No, it's yen check. Oh, yeah.

From that level on up all the levels. Right, right, right, right. I don't know why he just says yen, but it's from the eight up.

So yeah, eight, nine, 10th and 11th Buddha hood.

[Speaker 2]
Right.

[Speaker 1]
Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Before you go on to the next phrase, can I ask you said after GC. Yeah, then the ma before pong. Does it that you're not doing that.

So when you say DC. I'm sorry, JC. It doesn't have the same rule, correct.

[Speaker 1]
Not that I'm aware of. No.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, just wanted to make sure.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Yeah, that's, yeah, I think you're saying until you eliminate all of them and have stopped all your wrong thinking, or negative wrong wrong views and misunderstanding, and have reached the level, due to the fact that you've reached the level of a or higher.

[Speaker 2]
Right, because you stopped those negative emotions. Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Yes. Yeah. Or, or your judge.

Either one.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah, which that is a job.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and are hot, they make a distinction between the, because you can do it either Mahayana or you can do it, you know, and they talk about both ones, either way, as long as you have eliminated mental afflictions, whichever. If you're on a Bodhisattva path or you're not. Okay, it's equivalent.

All right. So, by those two, whoever, whichever one. The, the tower.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, your root and secondary crummy thoughts.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah. How many roots and creamer. Was it six.

Yeah, it's six, six divided into five which makes 10 actually. But it's six, or the neighbor was there. 2020.

Yeah, yeah. So those 26 negative emotions. When you.

Yeah, my loop again my loop.

[Speaker 2]
When you completely eliminate them.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, when all those. Exactly. When all the.

Yeah. But this is past tense so Ben's right having done that. Due to that, you're a Kong sock.

[Speaker 2]
Our person.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, a person that's in buzz holds. Holds, I don't know what you hold yet but you hold something. You're holding a chair.

I know. A contact who holds by the by the notebook. By the power of having developed that look, I don't know why it says look right there.

Law can mean the same as dog.

[Speaker 2]
I guess you have stopped the ability to give rise to the state of mind that holds to the person.

[Speaker 1]
You think so.

[Speaker 2]
I provisionally. I wouldn't marry it.

[Speaker 1]
Make up.

[Speaker 2]
I mean we got to see what's really going on here to fit we're going to get to the bottom of having done that bottom we're going to get to the end of the book. Perhaps what says with one minute left I'm like giving up hope I'm really. That's okay, less than a minute, we got to finish this line though zero minutes.

[Speaker 1]
I gave up hope years ago. Stop the point.

[Speaker 2]
We got to read the golden key to get this paragraph. It's not.

[Speaker 1]
I think Kramer's right you, you have to stop, you have to stop holding to a self day, day, and due to that stopping day low pay. Because of that. There, there's also nothing to to shock to joke Jay, to put out negative emotions.

This shock. Yeah. And then, and then you stopped in uni.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, well look at that. Yeah. Because you stopped it's one ability.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you stopped the only thing it does.

[Speaker 2]
It's one thing, so you must have stopped it. Dare say we came dangerously close to understand this. Yeah.

And, uh, is it the first time we've actually talked about the mini coming to an end.

[Speaker 1]
Well, the, the root text first talks about it coming to an end. But this is the specifics on the beliefs around some, some, yeah. Mind only master.

[Speaker 2]
Was a very felt like selling them shot. Almost right like a very clear pragmatic magnet mechanistic presentation of how to systematically dismantle this thing that we don't even accept from our school, but still, cool.

[Speaker 1]
I don't think it's that much different than what you end up doing later. I mean you still have to. I don't have, I don't have a discussion time but we'll have a one second discussion.

You still have to like this way that view of the self that holding to itself. And regardless of the new knee exists or not.

[Speaker 2]
So, right, well and it looks like the new knee does survive the direct perception but doesn't survive, reaching nirvana, whether it be in the form of the bodhisattva level or in some other form. You're going to finish off your omniscience obstacles your obstacles to omniscience you're going to finish off without that pesky new knee in your way. Mm hmm.

Yeah. If you're getting rid of obstacles to omniscience checks out hard agree. So with this also stopping of the country as well, because you're, you're completely stop.

Oh, oh boy, oh boy. Well and that's all the time we have. When you stop holding to it when you stop giving the power of the new need to hold to itself, it won't do that anymore.

That happens when you stop when you completely end your negative emotions.

[Speaker 1]
But that could still be a crunchy but you just don't believe it's me.

[Speaker 2]
You have to go back to the 60 verses on reasoning Tim, there's a lot of. No, no, I think everything just disappears. Reaches nirvana anyway.

[Speaker 1]
Who are these drachmas. All right, that's it.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you. Thank you, Tim. Thank you.

So, thanks Ben. Thanks, Paula. Thanks to everyone else here, Oscar federal cutting.

See who do I see my Roxanna. I see a rabbit. All the rabbits.

Translators. Thank you so much word are you going to lead a class now.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I'll, I'll, the torture, the torture continues.

[Speaker 2]
Right on. Alright, so thank you so much for that and keep up the good work. See you guys on Saturday.