Вордсмит — Книга 2: Трудные места школы «Ум только», занятие 66

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it's a little, it feels a little funny. So I thought to just translate with everyone and then we'll see how well we did together. When Geshe-la comes.

Okay, here we go. I will review a little bit. Okay, so for people who have never been to my class before, we are discussing a book by Jason Kappa, where he comments on another book he wrote about the Mind Only School.

And the Mind Only School is one of the three of the four schools of the third of the four schools of Buddhism. And it features two, two extra consciousnesses. One is called Negative Consciousness, Nyonyi in Tibetan and West Chinese, and the other is called Kunshi in West Chinese, or Foundation Consciousness.

So we're in a section where we're talking about the Nyonyi, the Negative Consciousness, and several of its attributes. And we're in the sixth part of those where we speak about when does the Negative Consciousness start, stop, and things of that nature. When is it in play and when is it not in play?

And this is important because according to this school, Mind Only School, the Nyonyi is basically, not totally apparently, but basically in charge of when we feel negative emotions, negativities. And that occurs due to its relationship with the Foundation Consciousness. So Foundation Consciousness basically is everything you experience, okay?

Easy. You can think of it like a fridge, alright? Everything you've ever done are like the food in the fridge or seeds.

And the fridge itself are the experiences that you're having. And the Negative Consciousness looks at all those experiences and it says, oh, that's me. So it identifies as a self in that instance.

And that identification leads to a whole slew of negativities, which we've been going over. And we just finished going over them. And now we're talking about, well, if this thing is so bad, how can I end it?

When does it end? I want to end it, which is generally the point of these philosophies, how to end your negativities and further on, how to end any wrong beliefs at all. Okay, so that's the summation.

So I bring your attention to verse 34 of the root text that we are discussing. And it indeed talks about times when the negativity ends, alright? So Gopanamsa, while you're in a certain kind of meditation, it will end temporarily.

And then when you become a Bodhisattva on a high level, the eighth level, it ends ultimately. Or if you become a enemy destroyer, a foe destroyer, meaning someone who's gotten rid of their negativities altogether, that will also end it. Alright?

Okay. I have to say these things for us to have any hope of translating what we're translating. We have no hope anyway, but it's okay.

Can I ask you a quick question? Yeah, what is it? On the root text, when you say Gokbanyamshak, did you see some indication before or after that it's splitting up Gokbanyamshak and it's not like Gokbanyamshak and they just left it out?

I don't know. I guess he says in cessation and in the meditation. So I think it's both, honestly.

I think there is Gokbanyamshak, and then there's Nyamshak, which is like the direct perception of emptiness. Makes sense. Totally.

Yeah, I think it's both actually. So, and these verses we translated when we did our first book called The Golden Key, which also comments on the same text. Very good question, Nick.

The root text is difficult, and I forget sometimes. Okay, so now I bring your attention to this single syllable, re. It's part of this word, renga, alright?

Later, it seems it gets shortened to just re, okay? That's why we're talking about it. So after verse 34, and Geshe-la left this note, okay?

Which, this is when we last met, alright? Although we're on this verse, it's commenting on parts of this verse, but our part of the text is later. Alright, this re means times when we dok, stop the nyuni temporarily, alright?

Apparently, that's what it means. Well, that's definitely what it means. What it means later is the question, and then, and there's times when we stop it permanently or ultimately, tartuk.

Tartuk here means ultimately. Alright? That's what we're talking about.

Now here, here's where we are. Okay, I gotta bring you to another incident of this word, re. I think it should go right to it.

Yeah, here we are. So in this section, which is commenting on the next section, the next root text verse, this re is used again, but it's a little, I don't know. Here, this re apparently means, which, how, in this text, which is called Gongjrel, the commentary on what I really meant, alright, by the Buddha.

And it, unfortunately, he says that's where it's from, but we haven't been able to find the exact quote. So we don't really know where it's from. That's because it's not a direct quotation, it's a paraphrase, okay?

So apparently it's a paraphrase, not a direct quotation. And it's talking about, yeah, and when the negative consciousness ends, alright? And this re, in this case, seems to indicate each, because re can also mean each, alright?

So like re, re, yeah, exactly. So one, so, and this s apparently is an instrumental particle, but that's the question. I'm not sure, alright?

Okay, so now, based on that, and it's talking about, it's a reference to the six consciousnesses, your eye, your ear, nose, tongue, general feeling and thoughts in your mind, okay? Alright, and it says, yeah, and like, in terms of how we look at visible form, I suppose. Yeah, I think it's visible here because we're looking at it.

Yeah, it could be, in certain cases, but physical as well, just physical. Alright, here we go. Now, this is where we're at, I believe.

Yes. Let me double check. These are quotes.

Yeah, stop here, 513, okay? Yeah, so this is where we're at. Alright?

So who wants to read this, and then we can try to figure it out. Anybody?

[Speaker 2]
Can I read?

[Speaker 1]
Who's that, Hao?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, go ahead.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, thank you. Yeah, good, perfect, perfect.

[Speaker 1]
Good reading.

[Speaker 2]
Alright, here we go.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you're welcome. So rei, and so I just reviewed what it seems Geshe-la refers to in this note, okay? I don't know exactly.

But I do not know why it says dra, alright? I think it might be referring, okay, it says dra nian, which means, dra can mean sound, right? It could also mean word or language.

I think here it's just sound because it says nian. So I think it's saying, like earlier it just said sukla ta, right? So the one that looks at the visible things.

So now I think it's saying the one that hears, the hearables, right? The dra, the sounds. Alright.

I don't know. Doesn't dra nian sometimes mean a guitar? Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, it is.

[Speaker 1]
It's like a...

[Speaker 2]
Is it dra nian?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, dra nian is a lute, Geshe Michael says sometimes, but... I think that's with an S meaning sweet.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, maybe it's not. Yeah, yeah, okay.

[Speaker 2]
Beautiful sound.

[Speaker 1]
Exactly, the beautiful sound, the sweet sound. We can double check, but I think so. So anyway, and this is the end of the statement, okay?

No. Dra jian nian. That thing that hears the sound or something, alright?

And then it doesn't really elucidate that part more. It says nian pa tabu. Think like that.

Yeah, if you think like that. If you experience it that way, then that rik, that class of thing, double negative, mi tun me pa.

[Speaker 2]
Not in accord.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, exactly, Adam. It's not not in accord, meaning it lines up, right? Like, hearing something with your sense of hearing is, that makes sense for your experience, right?

Okay, and then hurwa ji si pa. Until such time as sansara, or the circle goes on, right? True.

Yeah. Rik chik tu ju pie chi ro, right? It's due to the fact that, so this juke in this section means to engage, alright?

So the six consciousnesses, those six, are ones that you can engage, like I can choose to look at things, choose to hear to an extent, et cetera, right? They call those the engaging consciousnesses. So it seems to be that he's saying that each one of them, the engaging consciousness engages in a single type of thing, right?

Hearing only engages sounds, et cetera.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Yeah, there's a class that engages in forms, and then there's this other class that engages in sounds by hearing them. And then this sort of experience goes on in like type, that type is consistent as long as the cycle goes on.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. That's cool. Yeah, go on, go on, Adam.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, no, I was just saying, I think like the kei ches, right? Like we know that sense spheres can only engage that particular object.

[Speaker 1]
Exactly, yeah. If it's like one type. So this is consistent with the golden key, and it talks about this subject deeply concerning, yeah, when does the negative, how does negativity end?

When does it end? And can you, if you cut out the negativity, do you cut out the rest of your mind? So how do you separate the negativity from those other types, right?

Those other rays, and your mind continue on after the negativity is gone. So I think that's what's happening, because that's what he's talking about until the end of sensata, because if the negativity ends, then sensata would end. Right?

And that's the subject we're actually talking about, the end of negativity, right?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, sounds right. Yeah. What's that?

I was just saying, yeah, I think we need a paratroop behind the rainbow kitten line.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[Speaker 3]
Nicely said.

[Speaker 1]
I agree. It's clear too. Who would like to read this next section?

Nobody.

[Speaker 3]
Me.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Who's that? Juan?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, but the other person's saying, I will let them do if you agree.

[Speaker 1]
Sure. Who's that? Was that Venerable Upala?

Who's that? Yeah, I just couldn't stand the silence.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Nice. Should I pull a gashula here?

[Speaker 3]
What would that be?

[Speaker 1]
A big cursor? Yeah, make my cursor bigger. Is this pointer control?

Is that right? Accessibility. I'm in accessibility.

[Speaker 3]
We can only see your text.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, yeah, that's probably better. Good luck. I don't know.

I think this is it. You're doing a great job. Oh, thanks.

Take it to your bankers. I don't know. We can see your whatever.

If people really want to just ask me. Okay. Ditar.

Anyone can help, by the way, if you know. Just yell. In this way.

Yeah, in this way, meaning what we just said is going to be supported by a statement. Okay. Yang.

Also in this. Yeah. Yeah, it says that.

It's a famous book called the secret meaning. Secret. By.

We don't know. Okay. The author.

Yeah, that's my joke. It's a secret.

[Speaker 2]
Sorry.

[Speaker 1]
You stole my joke. Yeah. So we don't know.

We're both dads, dude. So it's. Some people think it's Master Vasa Vanda, but no one knows.

Okay. So this is a quote from that book. And it says.

[Speaker 3]
Getting out of the book. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. The things that are beyond the world. Right.

Specifically. That's beyond the world. This meditation.

Yeah.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Good. No means equals some and joke means to enter a place. You could say party parties more place.

But anyway, some a party or some ID for Lopa. Why does it say Lopa?

[Speaker 3]
Hmm.

[Speaker 1]
No. Yeah. What is.

What does that mean in this case? You're right. Yeah.

Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Good. The first four pads.

[Speaker 1]
Correct. You're both right. Yeah.

This means a non Buddha, because you could be beyond the world in a meditation and be a Buddha. So I was saying, yeah, for a non Buddha, who's in such a meditation, you, you Nick up. For a moment.

Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
That time.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yeah. During that meditation where you're temporarily you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're six consciousness, your awareness of your thoughts.

Yeah. Your mental, mental consciousness. So it's, it's the sixth one, right?

Manipa. It's not ascertaining. Yeah, it's not.

Yeah, I guess. Or it's not.

[Speaker 2]
Not certain.

[Speaker 1]
Young, my in.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Either it's not certain or we're not certain. But young, my position to be uncertain.

[Speaker 1]
It is also the, it is also not true that it is not certain. This S is important, right?

[Speaker 3]
It's not ascertained by the mind consciousness.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, exactly. I think, I think Nick's totally right. So this means all this is the subject, right?

Because all these genitive possessive particles links the whole thing. And this is saying, by such a mind, while it is in a temporary state of a non enlightened being in a meditation that is beyond the world, it does not, it's not ascertaining things. It's in that meditation.

So it also is not. Not what? Present, I guess it's, it's probably saying that it's not present.

I think. Yeah. I think it means that the new and he also is not happening.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Good. Good.

Because that's the only thing this session is about. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Beautiful logic. You know, therefore, or telling you more, hey, at that point, at the time of that meditation or something. Okay.

Yeah. During that, during that meditation, young, again, another young, it's also, yeah, yeah, I guess we should go here first, right? Because of that, during that time in the meditation, it's also the case that the Yi, Gurpa Nepa.

[Speaker 2]
Oh my God, is this Yi set aside from Yikunabar Shepa?

[Speaker 1]
I think it's, I think it's Nyunyi.

[Speaker 2]
Nyunyi. Yeah. It's kind of cruel.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. It's very cruel. It's difficult.

So, so fortunately, unfortunately, for some reason in the mind only school, it's a tradition. Okay. I'm, I'm, I have the honor of looking at some other mind only books these days.

They, they have Yi for Nyunyi, which could be very confusing because in every other case in the world, Yi just means mind or something, maybe thoughts. Okay. And they also, for Sem, Sem means Kunshi.

It doesn't mean mind in mind only code. Okay. Okay.

So that, so now it's just saying, so it is the case that for a temporary period of time, you are without the Nyunyi, can't, it's not happening, it's not ascertained, and, and yet it still exists.

[Speaker 3]
Ah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
So Gyerpa there means exist? Gyerpa, it means is in an adjectival clause. Yeah.

[Speaker 3]
Isn't that the future tense though?

[Speaker 1]
Um, no, Ngyur, Ngyur was the future tense. Gyerpa is the present. Present tense, yeah.

In some cases it can mean become, but here I believe it just means it, because Nyepa is exist, it, you do have a mind, you do have a negative consciousness. Yeah. We can ask Gen, Gen Love, but I'm pretty sure.

[Speaker 3]
So the mind is, is staying? I'm just still trying to figure out why Gyerpa is in between Nyi and Nyepa.

[Speaker 1]
Nyunyi. It is indeed the case that the mind is in existence at that time, even though temporarily it seems to have stopped due to the, the inability of the Inki Namparshepa to ascertain. That's what it seems.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Cause we were talking about John, I mean from the section before where we were talking about sound and how you can only engage with that, with one object at a time, essentially. Right.

[Speaker 1]
Essentially. Yeah. Or one type at a, per consciousness perhaps.

Which is why you're, you, you're, which is why we've got something beyond the world that we're engaging with in a state of meditation.

[Speaker 2]
And we're talking about, and I guess that's where that Nyi Nyepa is kind of opposing the Gyerpa.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah, I agree.

I didn't get that before. I agree. Yeah.

Because the Inki Namparshepa is what would, what would be ascertaining a mental thing like the Nyi Nyepa. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. That's nice. Yeah.

That's nice. Right. So your, your eyes, they see and your ears, Nyen, they hear, but your Inki Namparshepa, Nyepas, it ascertains.

[Speaker 1]
Exactly. Yeah. Hells two, right?

Yeah. Okay. Next.

I think we got the idea. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
So we're saying, I'm sorry, we're saying that even though it's not perceiving something, even though it's not active at that time, the Yiki Namparshepa still exists at that time. So maybe the, go ahead.

[Speaker 3]
That's what I meant.

[Speaker 2]
I'm sorry. The Nyi Nyepa, even though basically we're saying the six are inactive, but don't worry. Nyi Nyepa is there keeping your bases covered while the six senses are out to lunch in meditation.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. And hence Nekap. It's a temporary state.

Okay. Okay. Yeah.

Great. Wow.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Weird. Yeah. It's all crazy.

All right. Who would like to, who would like to read this next one? Juan, I think.

Oh yeah, Juan. Okay. All right.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Okay. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Say renka. Renka.

[Speaker 2]
Renka. Okay.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, good.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Okay. Yeah, Geshe-la put the title here for us, because earlier Jason Kappa just said, he said gong drel, right?

Now he's saying gong pa nge pa drel we to, which is more of the title. It's still not the whole thing, but it's more of it. The sutra where I say, where I comment on what I really meant, nge pa, right?

[Speaker 2]
I wonder also if he's using nge pa here because of the way he just used it. Like he didn't highlight the fact that he said, he didn't say I see, he just said one of the senses, of course, sees formed. And then he said, but you hear sound, and then he said, oh, but you don't, then you're not ascertaining, then you're not perceiving, I don't know, cognizing whatever the heck you want with your mind.

And now suddenly he's saying nge pa again without telling us. I wonder if that's why he painted it out.

[Speaker 1]
I think so, yeah, that makes sense. It's definitely conspicuous, as always. Renga?

[Speaker 2]
Sometimes. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, sometimes. Occasionally. Yeah, good.

Exactly. This nge means we're going to tell you what that means. I think we couldn't find this quote either.

Yeah, we couldn't. And Geshe-la put some notes here, which we'll see if he wants to go over next time about this section. But this nge means I'm going to tell you what renga means in this case.

I don't know why there's a te here. Chikdang. So one and te.

Gangitse. Hmm? Yeah.

Gangitse. No, we're just laughing at your pain. Nothing helpful.

[Speaker 2]
I was actually just coughing. Sorry about that.

[Speaker 1]
Gangitse can mean like whatever at whatever time.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whenever.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, exactly. This tongue is also conspicuous. Okay.

I don't know why they're here. It seems like part of a statement. I guess that's why we need these commentaries.

We can try to look at them. So, and this is saying, that's what the quote says. Occasionally, one and at whatever time, the nyooni, and.

Great, super, wildly helpful, yeah, let's see. And you checked the, you did check the scan of your book just to see if there was anything wrong there. All right.

Not really. No, I didn't check it for this part.

[Speaker 3]
Okay. Okay. Because it seems so weird.

But if Keke Michael didn't, then it's unlikely to be.

[Speaker 1]
I don't know. Tongues can be wrong sometimes, but right. I think the next part, look, yeah, I saw this note.

I didn't quite completely understand it. I think I almost got it now. Something weird's happening.

Yeah, there's missing text or something. That's why this feels weird. Something's going on with the text.

Yeah, I'm going to do this for now. So we can look at both. All right.

So yeah, what does chikdang mean? That's the thing. I don't know.

I mean, it's just, it just means one end, but, but then it's followed by te, yeah, it's so weird. Yeah, that doesn't, it's weird. And so is this yidang.

So let's read this part and look at Geshe-la's notes and maybe we can make heads or tails of it. This is his, this is his quote of the sutra, right? This isn't a commenting on the sutra.

Are you saying, you're asking if we're still within the quote? Yeah, that's what I'm asking you. He said shung je wa, yeah, I don't think, I think this is him riffing off the quote he just gave.

Right. Oh, wait, no. No, this also says shung je wa, so I don't know.

Because that's what it says? Yeah, because, because that's what it says, yeah.

[Speaker 3]
Shepa dong, dong what?

[Speaker 2]
Paratrooper bunny kitten rainbows.

[Speaker 1]
I'm going to get to the end of the book. We should read it first. Let's just read it and then we'll confuse our audience more.

Who wants to read? I know Anastasia Mansurova wants to read.

[Speaker 3]
Renga ni. What?

[Speaker 1]
Renga.

[Speaker 3]
Renga.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[Speaker 3]
Renga ni, ni dang te, ki nam par shepa dong, shi jung wei chiro.

[Speaker 1]
Good, perfect. Yeah, because what it says, I guess I should start here. He starts with the same thing.

It is sometimes, but it's the same thing. Look, now he's saying ni dang te instead of chik dang te. And Geshe-la says, missing from the text, dang yi.

So is it ni dang te dang yi?

[Speaker 3]
Right. The yi dang yi, ki nam par shepa. Is it nun yi plus the sixth consciousness?

[Speaker 1]
Because of where he put the note. Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right, Venerable.

He's saying it's ni dang te, yi dang yi, ki nam par shepa dang, shi jung wei chiro. Yeah. Okay, which then means two.

And I guess he's saying in commentary on what I really thought, when it says chik dang, that means at any time the nun is present. Yeah, that's why I was wondering if we were still in the quote, because it seems like he's commenting upon the quote. Okay.

But what you're saying is that Buddha said that when we say... Yeah, apparently it seems like... We can't find the quote in the book, by the way, in the version we have, but...

In that little bit right above, it does say chik dang. Chik dang, a couple of times. I know.

Yeah. Oh, in this section?

[Speaker 3]
Yep.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. What did you say, Adam? Sorry.

[Speaker 2]
And I was just... We also mentioned that up above, there was a quote by Dunsong as well. Yeah.

Yeah, and if we're talking about two states, right, where the nun is engaged and one state where it's not engaged, wouldn't that... I'm just asking a question here. Would that be the chik dang and the ni dang?

[Speaker 1]
Maybe. Venerable Prabhupāda made the wonderful observation that the quote says chik dang, so we could look at it and see. I don't know.

But it is the quote. Jason Koppa is saying that part, or someone's saying that part that says chik dang and then goes on, but they don't put what goes on. They just say te.

So here we have chik dang thade.

[Speaker 2]
Chik dang thade.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, either one or separate, right? Yeah. And then same thing here, chik dang thade.

That's it.

[Speaker 2]
So then maybe the chik and the ni would be, either it's one or it's two things.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I wonder what happened with the ni dang. And yeah.

[Speaker 3]
Well, the yi dang. Oh, you mean in the quote. He didn't go far enough.

But the two would be the nun yi and the yi kin nam par sepa, right?

[Speaker 1]
Probably. Yeah. You know.

Yeah. Look, the only thing I'm wondering, I wonder if it's possible that after the te it is commentary and he's just saying when he says chik dang, it means this. And then the she jung or the she jawa there is him saying like when he said that or something.

I don't know. No, look, look, you know what's happening? Ah.

Dunsang quoted, quoted, quoted gung pa ne pa drel the do. Oh, so we're nesting, we're in nested quotes. I see.

That's what Adam was, that's what you were saying. Yeah. Yeah, Adam, you're right.

Yeah. Because look here, we're in Dunsang now. Yes.

OK, so that makes sense. Dunsang says that the sutra means this. Yeah, Dunsang says when.

When the sutra says this, it means that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

And so that's where Geshe-la in Dunsang found this yi kin nam par sepa. Although he seems to not be able to find it in the sutra, he found it in Dunsang. So this is the tang yi and yeah, Venerable Upala is correct.

Yeah, maybe all the sutra said is chik dang and nyi dang. It seems to be the case from what we have, yeah. Well, I don't know what the nyi is.

[Speaker 3]
Word, are you using the version that Geshe-la sent after your last class?

[Speaker 1]
Yes.

[Speaker 3]
OK.

[Speaker 1]
I believe it's the last one I got.

[Speaker 3]
Yep. Mine looks different. That's all.

[Speaker 1]
I just can't find where you're looking at right there. What date does yours have on it? What date does yours have on it?

I didn't keep it like that. I renamed it. Oh, you renamed it.

[Speaker 3]
OK. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
OK. This is the last one I have. I can double check.

[Speaker 3]
No, that's OK. I believe you.

[Speaker 1]
OK. OK. OK.

So we don't know what the nyi is, but I like the theory that it's the nyi and iki nam par shepa. And then I don't know what this last tongue is. Is there anything in the next section?

Say again, Adam? I have rainbows and kittens on the mind. Oh, yeah.

I'm ready.

[Speaker 2]
Here we go. OK.

[Speaker 1]
Read this, Adam.

[Speaker 2]
Kelte.

[Speaker 1]
Let me make the. Kelte. De itse yorpa yang yi ma yin pa shik tu gyer nan mi.

[Speaker 2]
Dila yang yi ma yin par ngyur wa. Di ke du renga ni. Chik dang te kang gi tse yi.

Iki nam par shepa dang she kyang she par gyero.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, good. Perfect. Thank you.

OK. Well, let's see what we can do. Kelte, if it were so, that it was a temporary case that the two, which includes the nyi and i and the mental consciousness, basically can.

If it were the case that those two can happen and the nyi can be temporarily off, right? Temporarily not engaged. OK.

OK. If that is the case, then it's also te itse. At that.

Yeah. At that time, the gyer pa. This is the gyer pa.

It is. This is the yi gyer pa we had, right? Uh huh.

Right. Sorry, all the notes. Right here.

Yi gyer pa, right? Uh huh. OK.

OK. As it. So I would I take it as as it, uh, exists.

Right. OK. At that time, it still exists.

Um. But also. Yi ma yin pa.

It's. Uh. Maybe it's saying it's not mental.

It's a nyi but it's not. Gyer yi kyang par shey pa. I think.

I think it's saying. I think because it's temporary off, it's true that it exists, but it ain't doing nothing. Mm hmm.

[Speaker 3]
Mm hmm.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. And that's what I'm thinking when we're referring to the nyi. We're referring to when the nyi is engaged and when it's on and when it's off.

[Speaker 1]
Mm. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. That's my my vote.

[Speaker 1]
But. I like it. I'm wrong.

A lot. So. Me too.

I think. What do you think the Sikhtus ... I think if it were to have gone away or something or if it were ...

I think it's destroyed there. Yeah, you might be right. Yeah.

Because it's a it's a it's a verb here, right?

[Speaker 2]
Uh huh. Just because it's not engaged doesn't mean it's not there. It's been destroyed.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
I think it's a verb there. Yeah, if it were destroyed.

[Speaker 1]
Mm hmm. If it were destroyed and there were and there was no mind at that time?

[Speaker 2]
At that time. If it were destroyed at that time. Yeah, it's coming together, kids.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, we should have some logical consequence of that possibility.

[Speaker 2]
Is that right?

[Speaker 1]
I would see. Then in that context, that in that case, apparently this law is not in the other version. Oh, then, oh, then it's also the case that it would never like come back or something.

Yeah, there will be because it was destroyed.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, wouldn't come back DK to after that.

[Speaker 1]
He's making a distinction, I guess, between it resting or being gone forever.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Like, yeah, it's still there, but it's not active. And then that would be like, it's not active, but it's been destroyed.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I think so. Yeah. He's saying if you think that just because it's not active, it's destroyed, then in that case, it would be gone completely.

Something like that. That'd be okay with me. I can't wait.

So what these words are saying, DK, do, right? When the word renga is used in terms of the yoni only being active sometimes. And now here we go again, chikdang.

[Speaker 3]
Chikdang te.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. I feel Geshe-la thinking about this somewhere and figuring it out right now. Right now.

[Speaker 3]
Could the tang there be with?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, but tang is used before something to indicate with, like, tang ten or tang sung.

[Speaker 2]
Well, it's interesting because from the quote that we were looking at, it was being used in the context of, it was being paired with chikdang, with tare.

[Speaker 1]
Exactly.

[Speaker 3]
Oh, it can also mean a total when it follows a number. Oh, no, that's plus a number. When it precedes a number, shoot.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, precedes a number. You can say tangye. That makes eight or something.

[Speaker 2]
But I've never heard it to arrive at one.

[Speaker 1]
And that makes one.

[Speaker 2]
And that's one.

[Speaker 1]
That was our easy math class for today. I think our original assessment was right. It's indicating what part of the quote.

It's just a short way to say what part of the quote we're talking about. Yeah. Yeah.

In those words, the renga means it's neither chik nor, it's neither one or separate. And that, and therefore, kangitse, at any time, there's the ikilampa shape of the mental consciousness. But there's more of these tangs.

Yeah. Yeah. It could be one of those things, the quote from this part up to this part.

Oh, it could be. Or you should be giving a logical consequence, like you said.

[Speaker 3]
I would.

[Speaker 1]
In this point, you should be giving it. Yeah, you would think. Yeah.

I would look up ikilampa shape of tang in the book and see if I found anything, too. Go ahead, Adam. Please.

I was, you know, I was just thinking the logical consequence could be, because we're using the chikdang again here, like in the section before, we were saying there were two things.

[Speaker 2]
Right. And then as a logical consequence, we're kind of saying that that would mean that they would be one. But I also, I don't think I'm, yeah.

[Speaker 3]
So shepa tang does show up many times. Sometimes as part of, you know, tang, being a connector, and sometimes not.

[Speaker 1]
That tang means we have another quote that's coming up, shepa tang. Oh, you mean this, you mean shepa? Shepa tang, yeah.

Oh, the shepa. Yeah, I don't know. But this is ikilampa shepa.

These definitely all go together.

[Speaker 3]
No, you were wondering if shepa tang ever occurred within the text, and I'm just saying it does.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, did you? Okay. Did you find ikilampa shepa or just shepa?

[Speaker 3]
I just looked at shepa tang. I could look at what all the phrases are. Sometimes it is, sometimes not.

[Speaker 1]
Are you looking at dunsang? Sorry, I missed.

[Speaker 3]
I'm looking in this text.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, in this part. Oh, no, I meant dunsang. Oh, okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But thank you so much. Yeah.

I just, I'm just wondering what, because we found this chiktang, this chiktang tepa, sadepa. I'm just wondering if we can find out what's after this tongue popsicle. Within either dunsang or sandini nirmachaya.

Either one. All right, we can continue. She, that's also what is being explained.

Whatever that is. All right. This is, this looks like the end of the quote.

Who wants to read this? I'll read it. Word.

Oh, please. Okay. Let's go with that.

Yeah. Yeah, good. And then, yeah, I guess she leaves a note about these last four sections and how they are.

We can only find those quotes in the secret meaning. And then I guess we need to check all the differences because there was enough things that were different to make it significant.

[Speaker 3]
It's such an appropriate name.

[Speaker 1]
Dunsang? Yeah. So, we have seven more minutes.

Let's see if we can finish this first. Shenyang. Moreover, Gelpa, I don't know.

Or Gyalawa. I don't know. Gel usually means king or victor.

Right? But Gyalpa is king and Gyalwa is victor. So, I don't know.

Dunsang says Gyalawa, which means a person that goes into the wide. Yeah. Into the vastness.

Yeah. Lasokpa. Let's see if we can crack it.

So, this is what I was discussing earlier. Engaging consciousness. Exactly.

Engaging consciousnesses. As opposed to like the Kunshi and the Nyuni, which are always happening. You can't be like Nyuni, but you can close your eyes or go out and touch something, like engage with it.

Right? Purposefully. But the Nyuni and the Kunshi don't act in that way.

They're not consciousnesses that you can consciously engage. Right? Those sokh, those consciousnesses, those collections of consciousnesses, they're yuls.

They're objects. Yeah. The objects of those consciousnesses.

I don't know this lot. I don't know this lot yet, but Rakle. What's Rakle?

I know Nick knows.

[Speaker 3]
Oh, yeah. Depends on.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah. Depends upon. Yeah.

Kewanam. People? No, starters.

Starters? Well, yeah.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Things that can begin. Because if you can juke, that means things have to be able to start, apparently. Te, those starters, that you minye, minyewa.

[Speaker 2]
Don't get near?

[Speaker 1]
Maybe it means don't perceive or something here? I don't know. And so for people who don't know, minyewa usually means to get close to or be near.

So, and this cheer means it's saying because. And this agigli means goes with the cheer, right?

[Speaker 3]
It could be in there. They're not related.

[Speaker 1]
That's true. Minyewa can mean like be close in the terms of relation. I want to check the original text right now.

Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
I guess I just wanted to say that you're not close enough or you're not making, you're not close in the sense of making contact with the object that would start that perception.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. I think you're right. Wait, I'm going to help out here.

[Speaker 2]
You got to be like in its vicinity or it can't trigger a kyewa perception.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, something can't, can't, yeah, trigger, happen, right? Occur. Okay.

I like it. And then because it's gyunchike. Because the flow is cut.

[Speaker 2]
Interrupted.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. The flow is ended. And we had this in the Golden Key too when they were talking about, yeah, like you can close your eyes.

You can, you can, the engaging consciousness can start and stop, right? As opposed to the kunshi, which is always has to be going. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Shejawa, that's what it says. Me.

The yee. The nyuni.

[Speaker 2]
Nyuni.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. As if the book wasn't hard enough.

[Speaker 2]
As long as the cycle lasts.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, for however long sunsara lasts.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. As long as sunsara is going on. To me, that means that you have a nyuni, right?

Mm-hmm. Because you got sunsara when you become a flow destroyer. And you become a flow destroyer when you get rid of your negativities.

In this school, that means getting rid of your nyuni. That's my logic. Okay.

Rikchikpa mikpa. Mikpa.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
It focuses on that specific class. One specific class, right?

[Speaker 2]
Objects of that type, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. So here's your nyewa again.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. It's always near the kunshi namprashepa.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it makes contact with all the time, right?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
At all times. The foundation consciousness. The fridge.

Yeah, that's what's constantly... That's where it's constantly occurring from. That's where it comes from.

Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

And that's how we understand that the flow is cut.

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
That's what it seems to be. Yeah. I'm missing the connection there, but...

[Speaker 2]
What's the connection? So somehow the class of object... Suk is the class of object that you da.

Form is the class of object that you see. And dra is the class of object that you nyen, right? Sound is the class of object that you hear.

And then, right, what's the class of object that you nye with the yi? The class of object that you ascertain is mental object. And then there's some class of object that Nyönyi, whatever Nyé was, I don't know, but Nyönyi is nearer and it's the Kunshinamparashepa.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it's its make, its object of focus. We established that earlier in the text. Right.

But then he says, and that's how, that's what he explains about cutting the flow. Yeah, because he says the flow of the other ones are cut all the time, because they're Jukunamparashepas. So that's how their flow is cut.

[Speaker 2]
Did we decide if you can cut the flow of Kunshinamparashepa?

[Speaker 1]
Well, that's, Jason Kappa says there's two times, either during those deep meditations or if you become a flow destroyer or a wangthopa.

[Speaker 2]
He mentioned both of those, yeah, at the beginning. Is that the, in the previous quotation, is that the cheek or the knee?

[Speaker 1]
We don't, we don't know. It says chikdangtadepa, but we don't know. The knee probably is, but listen, I think I got it.

The Nyönyi will be cut so long as samsara goes on. When samsara ends, that's how, that's when it will be cut. So when you end samsara, when you end the cycle, when you end the cycle of pain, its proximity, its contact with the foundation consciousness will also end, because it will no longer, because it's the only class of thing that it focuses on.

What is the culture before jittar? Understand. Thank you.

Cool. We're over time, but I think we learned something here. Yeah, I'll write it out and then we'll see what Geshe-la says.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. Well, thank you so much, Ward.

Thank you, everybody, for participating in our wonderful, I think you're leading the class now, yeah? Yeah, more my fault. So stay tuned.

[Speaker 3]
No rest for the brilliant.

[Speaker 1]
Or the wicked.

[Speaker 2]
Or the rainbow bunny kittens.

[Speaker 1]
Well, thank you, everybody. Thank you so much. Please keep coming.

Tell all your friends and tell all your friends to tell their friends, come to learn translation and deep philosophy with us. All right, stay tuned for West Chinese language class with Ward Smith. Yay.

Thanks, everybody. It was fun. Fun for me.

Yeah, cool classroom. Thanks, Adam. Thanks for your help.

You're really helpful. And yeah, I think Koa Chalk is only us. So it would mean that we think the opposite of the Che Chakpas or whatever, right?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I agree.

[Speaker 3]
Cool.