Вордсмит — Книга 2: Трудные места школы «Ум только», занятие 50

[Speaker 1]
Hey, Uncle Nick, who's up first? It's Dr. Word. No!

Yeah, I was going to make you some coffee for this one, but I couldn't get it in exchange. Oh man, I need something stronger than coffee. What do you need, Geshe-la?

We got everything over here. Yeah, I need a baby yelling in my ear. Oh really?

That's easy to... I got a couple.

[Speaker 2]
What size are you looking for? We got 75 of them online right now.

[Speaker 1]
Hey, Dr. Word, fire at will, as we say. All right, here we go. Oh boy.

[Speaker 2]
Homework! Yay! Yay!

[Speaker 1]
The crowd erupts in happiness. Or something.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, we're going to do the mind only thing.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, hey Ezra. Where's Ezra?

[Speaker 2]
Just in time for mind only. You are a smart cookie.

[Speaker 1]
If he was smart, he wouldn't come.

[Speaker 2]
Now, now.

[Speaker 1]
Hi Ezra. I'm the least smart. Hey Ezra, can you explain why all your dad's brains went to you?

[Speaker 3]
No.

[Speaker 1]
Hey, I'm just wondering what happened to them. No, he can't explain it.

[Speaker 2]
No, they didn't.

[Speaker 1]
He can't explain it. Oh. All right, let's do this.

Share my screen.

[Speaker 3]
All right.

[Speaker 1]
This is the part where we're quiet, right? That's after I ask a question. You don't have to tell people to be quiet.

They just disappear. All right. Mind only book.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Here we go. What have arhats and Buddhas plucked out, respectively, to attain those states?

[Speaker 1]
Eyebrow hair. Unibrow.

[Speaker 2]
Buddhas have that hair. Buddhas have the ultimate unibrow.

[Speaker 1]
That's right. I was going to say that. You get it from driving your llama.

[Speaker 2]
I was about to say, don't you get that from driving your llama?

[Speaker 1]
Super long, you can't even measure.

[Speaker 2]
I was just about to make that joke, Nick. Nick, don't steal my jokes.

[Speaker 1]
20 bucks. You can't get money out of words. It doesn't work.

I know. I only receive.

[Speaker 2]
Are you talking about getting rid of negative emotions and getting rid of the obstacles to omniscience?

[Speaker 1]
Yes.

[Speaker 2]
What have arhats gotten rid of, plucked out? Negative emotions. Okay.

What have Buddhas gotten rid of? The obstacles to omniscience. So they're angry Buddhas?

No. They were arhats before they were Buddhas. I don't know.

There's no argument. Except for those very special ones who do it all at once, I guess. I guess.

Someone like that. Yes, arhats have plucked out the obstacles caused by negative emotions. Buddhas have plucked out the obstacles caused by negative emotions and the obstacles to omniscience.

How do you say plucked out in Tibetan?

[Speaker 1]
Who said ten? Probably Oscar. Ten is close.

Oscar is the only person listening usually. Oscar, pronounce it. Are you talking about tin?

Yes. Yes, it's tun. It's tau, right?

It's tau. Look at that smushy baby. She is so smushy.

On the max.

[Speaker 3]
She's got curly hair. Oh, look at her.

[Speaker 1]
She does.

[Speaker 3]
Oh, my.

[Speaker 1]
For Chinese sake. She's so beautiful. Oh, my gosh.

Hey, where does beauty gene skip every other generation? I know. It's too bad, Sush.

That's not what I meant. Oh, you meant. Oh, okay.

Here's a bonus question. So beautiful. Oh, my gosh.

Keep her up there. I've got to take a picture for Veronica. Okay.

Okay. You've got to tell me. The cause of possible confusion in our text.

I guess because tunpa, like the teacher, I don't know. Exactly. It's very.

[Speaker 2]
And I've only seen it in scripture like twice or something. It's very close to the threatening of tunpa, which means to teach and is much more often.

[Speaker 1]
Common maybe.

[Speaker 2]
I had common and I erased it and then I just didn't correct. More seen often. Yeah, it's much more.

Dammit. There we go. Okay.

Nick was right. Okay. Okay.

What are the three types of seeds proposed by Jason copper. On our section concerning the, the end.

[Speaker 1]
The stopping. Of the foundation consciousness.

[Speaker 2]
No. That's always a good answer.

[Speaker 1]
Coming up a lot. Yeah. 50 50.

[Speaker 2]
That answer per se. It's a more, it's pretty technical. We only did like two paragraphs.

Okay. So. It was one of them.

Say that again. I think that sounded right. True.

Yeah. And what. The troop had an A and a B.

What were those two parts? Or actually no tripping is correct for just that part. The next part is a and B.

So what are the other two venerable Apollo or somebody else? Yeah. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
You're on. I'm sorry. I'm not.

I shouldn't. No, I'm listening.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Thank you. You're also translating the whole book.

Okay. Correct. And there's one more.

[Speaker 3]
Six for the view of me and mine.

[Speaker 1]
Perfect. Hey, word, people are asking for translations. I've got other two that you mentioned.

[Speaker 2]
CP and lock is I'm going to give about to give them all right now is. Seeds for links of suffering life. And the seeds for the potentials that come from neutral and virtuous deeds.

That's the troop. Okay. But you're going to.

[Speaker 1]
I know. This never stops around here.

[Speaker 2]
When is the proposed stopping of the foundation consciousness on the path of the lesser way and greater way. Not soon enough. I know.

Until such time as you step into your final diamond light meditation. That's greater way. What about lesser way?

Until such time as you are a full.

[Speaker 1]
You don't have to change diapers anymore.

[Speaker 2]
No, that's bliss. When you've achieved Nirvana. Yes.

And then when you have attained diamond like meditation. Respectively. You know, greater way.

Okay, here we go. Oh, I shouldn't.

[Speaker 1]
Stopping. It sounds like a town meeting. The eighth link.

No, no, the eighth. Part of the bodhisattva level or something. The eighth bodhisattva level.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
I'd stop. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 2]
It blows on up. My job. My group of men.

[Speaker 1]
That's a nice one. Something which is. It's not something which is not.

Established or not proven or not. A new way to debate with your partner.

[Speaker 2]
I'm not incorrect. I'm not wrong. Yeah, you're not, not wrong.

That's correct.

[Speaker 1]
You're not.

[Speaker 2]
The links of a suffering life.

[Speaker 1]
Correct.

[Speaker 2]
And I forgot to black out the last one. So, Oscar. Yes.

The view of me and mine. In Tibet.

[Speaker 1]
I know. I know. Oscar.

No, I can't understand Spanish.

[Speaker 2]
Good job, everyone. Yeah. That was fun.

[Speaker 1]
She's so cute. Word. I just can't get over it.

I know. Maybe we can have a hair transplant. She can have my side hair, I'll take her top hair.

Deal.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, here we go again.

[Speaker 1]
Hey, can you make the letters bigger, like just stretch your fingers there? Yeah. Okay, there you go.

Hold on. A little more. How's that?

Yeah, okay, good.

[Speaker 2]
Should we read the whole thing for the audience?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, that's all right. Go ahead.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, cool. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
NYAMS SO Oh yeah, NYAMS SO GZHAN NA GZHAN NA, good. If it is the case that those that have achieved power and enemy stirrers do not have a foundation, GZHAN NA GZHAN NA RANG MED NA GZHAN NA RANG MED NA GZHAN NA RANG MED NA Catch the key line at the end of the second line. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
It means accept, right?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, do we or don't we accept that they have eight consciousnesses? Yeah. Okay, good.

Technically, you also have to catch DE DAG GI RGYUD LA. DE DAG GI RGYUD LA Let me see.

[Speaker 2]
Maybe I tried and it just looks bad.

[Speaker 1]
You could say in their being or something like that, as part of their being. I think that's my that, those. So let's just say that.

Okay, all right, you can press it. Okay, if they need them, then what becomes the foundation? GZHAN NA GZHAN NA Do or don't we accept them?

If they do need them, if they do need them, then... Oh, no. The part that starts with GZHAN NA is not a question, it's just a statement.

Hypothetical case. If they do need them, then they should have a kunshi. If they do need eight, if they do need them, then they should have a foundation.

Kunshi is good. Otherwise... Otherwise...

No, this is tricky. Do they or don't they have eight consciousnesses? And if you say, yes, they need eight consciousnesses, then you say, well, then they must still have a kunshi.

It's a common fact in the mind-only school that everybody has eight different consciousnesses. Six-sense consciousnesses, one kunshi, and one messed-up consciousness. Then we say, look, these guys who achieve higher levels, do they have eight or not?

And if he says, yes, then we say, well, then he still has a foundation consciousness. And they say, no, no, they don't have a foundation consciousness, but they still have eight? Yeah.

Well, so you made up a new one then. So that means, kunshi nubpa shepa nyupa gyurte GZHAN DU NA GZHAN DU NA means, otherwise, you must be saying there's a consciousness which is not included into the eight. You must be saying there's a ninth one.

You see what I mean? namshe tsokye du ma tokpe means, oh, then according to you, there's a ninth consciousness that no one ever mentioned before, because they lost kunshi, and they still have eight. Got it?

Then it means there must be a ninth one running around. Yeah, but it doesn't say ninth precisely, so... Now, if they don't...

Now, mi gun nam means, if they don't need it, that's good. Yeah, some other consciousness which is not included into the traditional eight. You see what I mean?

I get it now. Thank you, Ken. Then, if they don't need...

if we don't have to accept that they have eight, then your statement... Then, if we don't have to accept that they have eight, then your statement that it lasts until... bardu jukpa, right?

That it lasts until you reach the diamond-like meditation, which is the last steps of Buddhahood, or nirvana without remainder, is proven wrong. You said, Tsongkhapa, that kunshi stays all the way up to the last moment before Buddhahood, or the last moment before nirvana without remainder. But, if these eighth-level bodhisattvas and these lower arhats don't have eight consciousness, if they lose their kunshi long before they reach the final moments before Buddhahood, then that statement that you made earlier, that these guys keep their kunshi up until the moment before Buddhahood, is wrong.

Because, what about the guys on the ninth level? See, the question that he starts out with is, these guys on the eighth bodhisattva level, which are called power achievers. Power...

Wangtopas. These are bodhisattvas who are on level eight, nine, and ten. Do they have kunshi or not?

If you say no, then kunshi doesn't last until the end of the tenth level or something like that, or just before you reach nirvana without remainder. If you say they do have it, then... Yeah.

Oh, if they lost it and they still have eight, then you have a problem too. Because then there must be some new eighth consciousness. People at the eighth bodhisattva level lost their kunshi.

Oh, but do they have eight? Yes. Well, then there must be a new number eight.

Got it? So, what's the traditional number eight? Kunshi.

What's a traditional... What's very famous, number seven? Nyonyi.

Nyonyi. The messed up... Actually, it's the tendency to hold to a self-nature in the mind-only school.

It's a separate consciousness. Six normal consciousnesses. One, kunshi, which is number eight.

And then number seven thinks number eight is real, is a self-nature. So if they lose kunshi, and they still have eight, then what do they got? What's the extra one?

Right. This is where the lobotomy comes in, right?

[Speaker 3]
Do they lose number seven? Because they are cut off by them.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, that's a good question. Do they lose number seven? There's a question from the peanut gallery, you know this expression?

It means the audience. Peanut gallery. Don't ask me where I heard it.

It's the audience in the cheap seats that...

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
...back in the day. It's discussed later in the book, Hasso. Yeah, that's what I always tell people.

It comes up later. We'll discuss it later. As soon as Sushumna has her 29th birthday.

All right. I hope I'm still not doing this for her. I'm going to torture you for 29 years.

29 years. Where's the next paragraph for us? We're done with this paragraph, right?

We are here. nyepa me de kunshi namshe na nami kyi khyab kyang nami kyi namshe na kunshi ma khyab te That's not a problem. Phalashikara includes a part which is...

This is more simple than this. It's a word. kunshi namshe na nami kyi khyab kunshi namshe na nami kyi namshe khyab The foundation consciousness...

If something is foundation consciousness, it is always a karmic... ripening. It's always a state of mind which is a karmic ripening.

But it's not the case that all karmic ripening states of mind are kunshi. Got it? All states of mind which are karmic ripenings...

Sorry. All kunshis are karmic ripenings. Are states of mind which are karmic ripenings.

But it's not the case that all states of mind which are karmic ripenings are kunshi. Where is he headed? He's going to say it's possible to have an eighth state of mind which kind of replaces the kunshi.

Okay. All right. Or that they still...

It's the milk that the goose picked out. Okay? So you're speaking Sushumna's language.

Yeah. She's a... It'd be nice if she met Sisi, my granddaughter.

[Speaker 2]
We're going to have a baby party soon here.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Okay, let's go look at 434.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Those that have attained power in enemist destroyers... By the way, both of these guys are not quite there yet. Both of these guys are not quite there yet.

The first ones attained power means eighth or ninth level bodhisattva. They are not at ten yet. An enemist destroyer here means Lhag-che.

With the body still? They still have something left over. So these two are guys who haven't reached the destruction of the kunshi yet, according to anybody.

Got it? Okay, so they have... na men gyi nam she yu kyang kun shi dun me pay che kyi ni la min chung la So this is the eighth one.

Now this is an interesting sentence, okay? They still have a part of their mind which has ripened. By the way, that's referring to the refrigerator, right?

Kunshi is divided into two parts. The seeds and the ripened part. Again, kunshi is divided into two parts.

The seeds and the ripened part, which is kind of like the... Oh, you guys weren't there. It's kind of like the skin on the milk.

Yeah, it's the refrigerator that forms some of the seeds in your kunshi ripened early and become the container that holds the rest of them. How's that? So those high-level bodhisattvas and those almost full nirvana guys, they still have the container, but there's nothing in it.

Okay? So do they have kunshi or not? Yeah, they have a piece of their kunshi left.

That's what he's saying. That's what Tsongkhapa is saying. So they still have a placeholder for number eight.

[Speaker 3]
When you say eight centipedes, is number seven that is not there, or no?

[Speaker 1]
No, apparently they haven't. But the question here, the debate here, is do they have kunshi or not? Because the whole section started out with a verse about when do you get rid of your kunshi?

When do you stop your kunshi? Also, we'll do seven in like six months. Don't worry.

And the interesting thing is you can stop your kunshi like eighth bodhisattva level, but there's still a placeholder for it. There's still a place for it to be. We still say you have eight consciousnesses, but one of them's not doing anything.

You still have that slot in the car, but the part's not there anymore. That's what he's saying. Tsongkhapa's trying to say that.

You still have a slot, but you don't have anything there. Okay? It's kind of fun.

Anyway, you okay?

[Speaker 2]
I have two questions. First, what's the nipa? What second problem is he referring to?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, that was the second problem above that said... What was the second problem above? If they still have...

Yeah. Oh, if they don't still have kunshi word, then your statement, Tsongkhapa, that they have it up until the moment of Buddhahood is wrong. Got it.

Because you said they lose kunshi at the moment of Buddhahood. If at the eighth bodhisattva level and the ninth bodhisattva level they don't have kunshi, then your statement that they keep their kunshi up to the moment before Buddhahood is wrong. Got it.

Then Tsongkhapa says, I'm not wrong. By the way, later he says kind of defensively, I wasn't wrong. It's true that you lose it before you reach Buddhahood, and it's true that the slot is still there until you reach Buddhahood.

That's what he's trying to say. Because the numbing part is still there. The part which is the container is still there.

There's just nothing in it. Cool? It's kind of fun.

All right. Okay. I think we finished this one.

TSOG BSKYED DU BSTOD PA NA You want to read? Sure. TSOG BSKYED DU BSTOD PA NA YOR RO Good.

Let's forget the second half of the sentence. Let's do the first half of the sentence. TSOG BSKYED DU BSTOD PA NA If you're saying that they still have the collection of eight, which implies they still have kunshi, so if you're saying they still have the eight, the group of eight, then what you're saying is they still have kunshi, right?

And if... kunshi nam she dang ge du che pa ni If you say that kunshi rounds out the eight, if you say that the kunshi makes eight, ge du che means if you say, do they have the eight consciousnesses? Yes.

Well, then they must have kunshi, because that makes eight. That's what the first line says. ge du che means that makes eight.

That's why there's eight. And then Tsongkhapa says, RIG LA YOD ZE LA MED It's there by category, but it's not there by substance. Yeah, it's not a real thing.

The slot's there. The slot's there. The category is still there.

It's empty. So I can still talk about eight consciousnesses. It's just that the eighth slot has nothing in it.

That's Tsongkhapa's answer. Cool. Do high-level bodhisattvas still have kunshi?

Yeah. Why? They still have the slot, even though it's empty.

It's kind of a funny statement. Then a person who achieved nirvana without remainder still has slot for body, and still has a slot for mind.

[Speaker 3]
Even if it's empty, does it function anymore?

[Speaker 1]
No, it doesn't do anything. It doesn't do anything. No, it's just an empty slot.

It's like you took out the battery in the car, and the holder's still there, so you've still got a battery.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
It's pushing it. It's pushing it. We just had a battery thing, right?

Yeah. So, okay, you still have a battery in your car after you took it out. Why?

Because the holder's still there. That's Tsongkhapa. Otherwise, if you don't count the slot, shendu means if you don't count the slot, then drachomba here means plak che drachombas, still not complete arhats, and bodhisattvas at bodhisattva levels eight, nine, and some people would say ten.

gopala shukpa jukshe Now, after the dung in the third line word, he starts referring to an old question that somebody said. What's the mu shi mu sun? What's the mu shi mu sun between juk sem and kun shi?

juk sem means the normal six awarenesses, eye, ear, nose, tongue, skin, and mind. And then kun shi. What's the four mu shi mu sun?

Can you have both? Can you have one and not the other? Can you have the other and not the one?

Can you not have either? That's called mu shi mu sun. Let's look at the mu's, the four possible combinations between two things.

What do you guys think? Let's go through it. Is it possible to have both kun shi and your normal sense consciousnesses?

Yeah, for sure, everybody. Is it possible to have sense consciousnesses but not your kun shi? He gave an example before.

He did give an example before. He said, There's a deep state of meditation where we say, your sense consciousnesses are shut down. It's called mindless meditation.

Technically, you still have some traces of mental activity, but mostly shut down. He said, don't you remember way back when, we had the mu, we had the possible combination of no sense consciousness and no kun shi. We had one.

Who was the example? It was an eighth level person, Bodhisattva, who's aware their sense consciousnesses are shut down, and they don't have kun shi. Because they're in a certain meditation?

No, no. They just already overcame it. Oh, I mean they don't have their sense consciousnesses because they're in a certain meditation?

Right, that's true. That's true, yeah. Technically, they still have traces of sense consciousness going on.

They'd be dead. But we say, sem meypay nyom juk. They don't have any...

sem gopa. They are in... They are gopa la nyompa jupa.

We call it cessation meditation. We went through this like four years ago, carefully, so grandpa wanted you to know it. By the way, don't count the sem.

That's part of chung sem. They are gopa la jupa. They are in a cessation meditation.

What's that mean? They have no more active mental processes. They are so deep in meditation, they don't have...

So the mu, the possible combination of a person who has no kunshi and no mental processes is those eighth level bodhisattvas.

[Speaker 3]
Didn't Tsongkapa say you do pass kunshi until the last minute?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. No, Tsongkapa said two things. Number one, there's a combination of a person who has neither, and that's an eighth level bodhisattva, and by the way, a lower arhat, who is in a deep meditation.

They don't have kunshi, and they don't have sense consciousness. Then he said, you keep the kunshi up until the end of the tenth bodhisattva level. At the same time, he said, you keep the kunshi up until the tenth bodhisattva level.

The other guy is going crazy. First you say eighth level guy has none, and then you say he keeps it up until tenth level. Tsongkapa says, when I say he keeps it up until the tenth level, I just mean the sloth.

But he lost the kunshi back on the eighth level, because I told you, there's people who have neither. Sorry again, I just mean the what? The sloth.

Not a sloth. When he's talking about how long do you keep your kunshi, he says up until tenth level. When he's talking about the four possible combinations of having a kunshi and having sense consciousness, he counts eighth level bodhisattvas who are in a cessation meditation where they have no active mental processes as people who have neither.

Okay, got it? And the other guy is like, what? And we're like, what?

[Speaker 3]
It's like that proof red can be white.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, something like that. I told you, don't mess with those high lamas. They can prove anything.

You okay, word? You okay with this paragraph? I'm okay with the words.

We understand the sentence, right? By the way, Tsongkhapa is going to crow at the end. I told you I was right.

And everyone's like, huh? You got the plane, boss? Yeah, let's see if I can crash it.

I already did. Somebody's got to let me have power to show my screen. Here we go.

Okay, here we go. By the way, do you know how long it took me to figure that out? You don't care.

I don't. We really appreciate it. Yeah, just praise me every once in a while, okay?

Yes. That was amazing. Yeah, it's just so amazing to see that.

We're further down again. Are we?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, we met on the 11th. Last.

[Speaker 1]
After this. After this. Oh, there's the bedroom.

Okay. Okay, good. This is what I just did.

Okay. Keep going. Keep going.

That's it. Up to Gyoro. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay, do you want to pick somebody's words since your reading is so perfect already? I don't know about that, but I will pick someone only to torture her.

Her reading is beyond us all. Let me see. Leah.

Leah, do you want to practice? Leah Krieger. Sure, hi.

Hi, how are you? Great, thank you. Nice to see you.

You too. Okay, let's do this.

[Speaker 3]
Seven.

[Speaker 1]
Seven. Seven. Yes, go, go.

Good. Young. Young.

Young. Young. Nice, good.

Yay. Okay, good. Don't forget that the kunshi is divided into two chas, right?

Yeah, two parts. One is called the sabun ki cha, and one is called the namin ki cha, okay? So to appreciate the next sentence, you've got to understand that, right?

You have to remember that. So I'll ask you guys, eighth level bodhisattva, if you divide the kunshi into refrigerator and seeds, and you say they have got rid of their kunshi, which part are you talking about? The seeds.

The audience here says the seeds, right? And so, kunshi sabun ki cha mepo she kyang mir te. They don't have the sabun ki cha.

They don't have the seeds part. He says that's wrong. Okay.

Thank you. You can't say it'd be improper to say that they didn't have the sabun ki cha. Okay?

Because namin ki cha kunshir jokpa yang when you say that when you say that they still have the right pendupar, the refrigerator, when you say that they still have the refrigerator, what you're talking about is what the messed up mind, which is awareness number seven, believes is dark. Self. Is your self.

Dr. Jorwait Dinh, we had this, right? The word kunshi refers to three different dorwas. The word kunshi refers to three different applications.

Okay? One, it connects you to. Jorwa means it connects you to.

The word kunshi implies that you are connected to three different things. The function of kunshi and the literal explanation of alaya is that it connects you to three different things. What?

Number one. Number one, it connects you to the causes of everything that's bad in the universe. Well, it results from...

From one point of view, the kunshi is a result of all the bad stuff you did in the past. So the kunshi connects you to causes. Yeah.

Because it's a result. Because it's a result. The kunshi, secondly, connects you to results because...

It's a cause. Yeah. The longer kunshi goes, all those bad seeds in the kunshi are going to create new bad stuff.

So alaya, all the stuff in the past, lays on kunshi. And that's why we call it alaya. A means everything.

Everything in the past rests on kunshi. And kunshi rests below all the things in the future. And kunshi rests at the bottom of your sense of a self.

Because it is what you think is you. It is what you think of as you. When you misunderstand yourself, and you think there's a self-nature there, that's your kunshi.

And that was the third sense of alaya. Okay? So you hear Tsongkhapa saying, look, when we say dak tu jorway dun, what was that technical word for technical word word?

What was that technical word for technical word word? Nge tsik. Yeah, nge tsik.

The literal explanation of the word alaya had three parts. The third part was kunshi is called the basis of everything because it attaches you, or it refers you to everything. Meaning a self.

So he says, what do you guys think? Is it the seed part of the kunshi that you think is you? Or is it the refrigerator part of kunshi that you think is you?

When they say kunshi, what's that? Well, here it says na min kyi chak. Yeah, the ripen part.

That makes sense, right? Look, if it's the seeds that came from everything in the past and connects you to everything in the past as a cause, and if it's the seeds that connect you with everything in the future as a result, then what's left to connect you to a self is the refrigerator. The seeds got covered already in the first two explanations of the word alaya.

Cause of everything and result of everything. And then kunshi, sorry, the ripened part, the refrigerator part, is what your tendency to grasp to a self thinks is me, the refrigerator. So Tsongkapa says, na min kyi chak kunshir jokpa yang nyen yik gi dak tu jokway dun du sumpay che Look, I told you, it's the ripened part.

That you are mistaking as yourself. Now, what's the big, why do they, here, you were ready word? Why do they call bodhisattvas at the eighth level on power, what do you call, power dudes?

Because they have attained nirvana. Which means that they have destroyed their sense of a self-nature. They've destroyed dang dzin.

Okay? That's what makes you an arhat. You just blew up the first link of the twelve.

Right? So, they cannot be connecting to the kunshi in the third sense anymore. Eighth level bodhisattvas cannot be alaya anymore in the sense of connecting to the kunshi, which is the refrigerator, because what makes them power guys, and what makes lower arhats lower arhats, is that they've destroyed dang dzin.

They don't, they don't believe in a dak anymore.

[Speaker 3]
But lower arhats do?

[Speaker 1]
They do not. No, they're free from the circle of life. They are outside the circle of life.

Sipay korlo. They are outside. So they must not be relating to the kunshi in the third sense of the word alaya anymore.

Yeah. They must not be relating to the kunshi that way anymore. So if you say, here we go, if eighth level bodhisattvas still have some kind of trace of kunshi, it has to be from the sovereign side.

It has to be from the seed side, because as a refrigerator side, they already overcame it, or they wouldn't be eighth level bodhisattva, or they wouldn't be lower level arhat. Got it? So don't tell me, don't try to say that the kunshi placeholders, slot that they still have, only relates to the, only relates to the self-nature thing, because they don't have that either, because they overcame the self-nature.

Don't tell me the reason they still have some kunshi is that they relate to the refrigerator as being a self. They overcame that. And don't tell me they still have it as seeds either, because they're free.

But they still have kunshi. They just don't have kunshi in either of the two possible forms of kunshi. A good guy.

This is so helpful.

[Speaker 3]
That thing about the three possibilities of alaya, is it related to the three doors of emptiness?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, boy, you're getting at it. Well, you could say the seed ones are. You could say the seed ones are.

[Speaker 3]
Like the causes?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah. You could say that, and the present one is the third. You could say that.

That's very interesting. I think there is some place where dimly they do that. Okay, who's going to read word?

You guys okay? You okay, word? You okay?

You hanging in there?

[Speaker 2]
I mean, I believe sankapa. I don't understand. Yeah, okay.

We'll see. It's like the middle part. I think a lot of these things make sense at the end.

[Speaker 1]
So, we'll see. By the way, I'll just point out that it's like Vasubandhu convincing you that the Abhidharma is correct. Okay?

It's like Abhi. It's Vasubandhu fiercely defending the Abhidharma. I was just thinking about that.

[Speaker 2]
I'm like, do you think that was not even my lonely school? This is pretty ridiculous.

[Speaker 1]
Oscar. Yes. Here it is.

[Speaker 3]
Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Good. So, dzun sang, right?

This weird text that sankapa has a crush on and he doesn't know who wrote it. nabar minpay nabar shepa la juk de If you say that it has to be the ripened part of the kunshi, right, the refrigerator, that you relate to as a self, la juk. la juk means dak dun juk.

If you say that those guys must be relating to the refrigerator if they feel a sense of self, kunshi nabar shepa la ma pa ni and that's the only way we're talking about kunshi at this point, ma kya, not true. In other words, are we saying that the only part that still remains is the refrigerator in those high-level bodhisattvas? Okay.

Then he says no. Then read the second part. Who's that?

Oscar. Continue on.

[Speaker 3]
Okay. shepa tar Good.

[Speaker 1]
Those bodhisattvas at the eighth level, okay, and those drachompa, what kind? Lhagme or Lhagche? Lhagche.

Yeah, Lhagche. Especially rangsangye's bodhisattvas, arhats, right? nam kyi gyu la me kyi nabar minpay nabar shepa ni yu do They don't have those seeds anymore, but they still have the ripened...

they still have the refrigerator. They don't have those seeds anymore, but they still have the refrigerator. What's the part of their kunshi that they are taking mistakenly as being themselves?

He says here, it must be the part that has ripened, the refrigerator. Why? shepa tar kunshe jawa la kunshe nabar shepa la ma pa ni ma kyepe chod te Is the part that they have just the refrigerator part?

He says, gyu la me kyi nabar minpay nabar shepa ni yu do They don't have the... They don't have the seeds anymore, but they do have the ripened part. They do have the refrigerator, pardon me.

[Speaker 3]
Didn't we say the other way?

[Speaker 1]
Didn't we say the other way? No. Do they still have the seats?

[Speaker 3]
Yes. Because the refrigerator cannot be there anymore.

[Speaker 1]
Do they still have the refrigerator?

[Speaker 3]
Supposedly, no.

[Speaker 1]
At the 8th Bodhisattva level?

[Speaker 3]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
They do, but it's not tainted by Dr. Jorwa. But it's not tainted by what? Dr. Jorwa. Dr. Jupa. Yeah, Dr. Jorwa. Ah, well, here it says, nampa menpay nampa shepa la juk de When you say their sense of self connects to the ripened part, the refrigerator, when you say that their sense of self refers to the refrigerator, kun chi nampa shepa murpa ni mikyapay chir te From chir di tar de ni, sar gyepa la sopa la nepe those Bodhisattvas in their mind and the lower arhats' minds, they don't...

something they don't have, but they still have... they don't have the seeds, but they still have the ripened part. That's what that other text says.

That makes sense to me, I don't know. They don't have the seeds anymore, but they still have the part that ripened. Sure.

So, are you okay?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Let's see where Tsongkhapa goes. Let's see. All right.

Who's going to read, Wunt? Let me see.

[Speaker 3]
Really?

[Speaker 1]
Claudia. Let's read fast, you guys. We got one minute.

Don't cry. We got to straighten this out by next class, I think. The first one, right?

Yes, please. Oh, thank you. number...

tenla... apa apa? apa.

apa, you. apa tuwarjang... mi shu sunte Pretty good.

Okay, good. Thank you. number tenla apa says that there's four possible combinations, right?

mu shi I'll give you the first one, but we'll stop there. What's the mu where you do have a kun shi, but you no longer have sense perceptions, including mental sense perception? Six sense perceptions, eye, ear, nose, etc.

What's the mu? And he says it's points where you are in the five possible states of mind in your normal life when you wouldn't have gross mental activity. There are five states in your normal life where you cannot have manifest mental activity.

One is in a mixed nuts class. Just kidding. I'll say it again.

The mu, the possible combination where you do have kun shi functioning, but you don't have your normal senses functioning. There's five possibilities. One of them is deep sleep, for example.

Okay, and we're going to get to that next time. Okay, word, good luck. You're going to summarize what we don't understand.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. In summary, I don't understand. How far back did we go?

Okay.

[Speaker 1]
I bow down to the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas. That's kidding.

[Speaker 2]
So, in essence, we're in a discussion around when and if do we get rid of our kun shi, our foundation. Nice, yep. Thank you.

And so, because Eighth level bodhisattvas, arhats, I can hear you. Aloha. Aloha.

Yeah, arhats, who have not yet, Eighth level bodhisattvas who are not Buddhas yet, and up, who are not Buddhas yet, and arhats who still exist, right? Yeah. Both have achieved a state of nirvana, but haven't completed their journey.

So, our discussion largely is around them because they are supposed to be rid of all negativities by definition. And so, therefore, the kun shi being defined as some kind of negative thing, what's going on with them in relationship to what portion or portions or any at all of the kun shi do they have? Nice.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and so, Now comes the hard part.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, so Jason Kopp was saying, there are some choices or a variety of permutations, and there are some choices as to regards to what part they have lost and what part they have not. Currently, he seems to be presenting the fact that the namin, the ripened part, the refrigerator part of the kun shi, is the part that we should have gotten rid of because that's the negative part, right?

[Speaker 1]
I'm not sure about that, but keep going. Well, the seeds are certainly a negative part, aren't they?

[Speaker 2]
I thought it was all negative, but I don't know. I'm just summarizing. I'm not here to judge.

[Speaker 1]
So anyway, but I think it hinges on this. Between the seeds and the refrigerator, the seeds are obviously what two of the original meanings of alaya refer to, that which comes from everything messed up, and that which leads to everything messed up. So that covers the seeds.

So when we say the third meaning of alaya is there's something that you take to be a self, connects you to a self, it seems like the refrigerator is all that's left.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, once you get rid of that sense of self, there is some portion of the kun shi that's left over that does not have that sense of self and therefore can be held by someone who has reached nirvana. We are still in discussion on what. Apparently there's four permutations thereof, of which the first refers to five instances when you don't have your mental functions in everyday life.

[Speaker 1]
I'll throw out a possibility to you, Wurn, that at the eighth bodhisattva level and at a lower nirvana, you no longer have any of the three meanings of the word alaya. I think that has to be the case. You don't have things that have resulted from messed up stuff, you don't have things that are going to result in messed up stuff, and definitely you don't have anything that you could think was yourself because you don't think anything is yourself anymore.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, because if you can become a Buddha in a mind-only school, then you have to have achieved the Four Noble Truths, the Four Arya Truths, so therefore you have to get rid of the causes of suffering and the effects of suffering and the thing in the first place causing suffering, which is the dak.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, so what I'm going to say is, look, why does Tsongkapa have to go to the slot argument if he doesn't believe that all three senses of alaya are gone already? Because apparently somewhere it says you still have all eight, and he's trying to rectify that. No, you see, what I'm saying is, if Tsongkapa has to say, look, you still have the slot, but you don't have the content, then when he says content, he must be referring to all three senses of alaya.

That's what I'm saying. If he has to go to the slot argument, it means he believes that neither half of kunshi is left. Right, which makes the most sense to me.

That makes the most sense to me too. Let's leave it there. Yay.

I feel a little better.

[Speaker 2]
We'll find out on the next exciting journey to the mind over mind.

[Speaker 1]
All right. Give my little granddaughter a hug, okay? I'm not sure who's cuter, the other one or this one.

I don't know. Okay, look, my other granddaughter, the only place she has hair is just above her neck. It's kind of weird.

I don't know. And I'm showing Veronica the pictures of Tsongkapa and saying, why can't she have hair like that? And they're like, I don't know.

All right, I'll see you guys. What's our break, Nick? It ended two minutes ago.

Break ended two minutes ago. Yeah, yeah. Back in three minutes.

All right, Grandpa.

[Speaker 2]
Thanks, Keshe Love.

[Speaker 1]
See you soon. Bye, guys. Okay, see you guys soon.

All righty. Yeah.