Вордсмит — Книга 2: Трудные места школы «Ум только», занятие 4

[Speaker 1]
Today, Mr. Smeigh, let's go.

[Speaker 2]
Today, Mr. Smeigh, let's go. How many did I do?

[Speaker 1]
I think it was six. Seven, yeah.

[Speaker 3]
Seven.

[Speaker 2]
All right.

[Speaker 3]
This was the third one. It was, wasn't it? Yes.

Let's do it.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, let's see here. I'm trying to. Okay.

This is so irritating. Okay, well, all right. Did I share my screen?

[Speaker 3]
Not yet.

[Speaker 1]
Not yet. Okay, let's try. How's it?

You okay, you guys? Okay, here we go. So here's a progress report.

We've been doing about six folio sites per term, and most of you guys are doing around six sites per term. We finished the Golden Key, which was 60 folio sites in the last term. And now we've started.

So we finished an easier commentary to Tsongkhapa's text, which is called Difficult Points in Mynomi, because it was too difficult for us. And we did an easier commentary, and we finished it. And that has to be cleaned up, and then it can be printed.

And we can talk about, you know, our book company makes books, makes nuts selling books. We can talk about it maybe next time. But right now, we've got a whole book finished by Word, which is a very sexy book, a great book about the Mynomi school.

And now we're going to go to Tsongkhapa's auto-commentary. And I think Word's book is, I think we should print it already, the first commentary. Word, there was a comment that you gave me in May that I missed some verses.

I covered them, right? We did them, yeah. Okay, so I'm going to cut that.

All right, we have long appendices. So Word's first book is already finished. It'll be about 200 pages in English.

And if we add Tsongkhapa's commentary, it'll be, the whole book will be 500 pages. But as I said, I think we could print the first commentary by itself. Okay.

All right, that's the progress report. So Word, we finished Tsongkhapa in 2024, but I think we should print the first book now. All right.

Now Word, I propose that we go back just and review something we went through already, just so people know where we're at, okay? So I'm going to, I'm not going to, don't worry Word, I'm not going to cover the whole, I'm not going to read the whole thing. I'm just going to summarize it, okay?

So when you go into a formless realm meditation, like at the end of the lion's dance, okay, it hurts, nipa, it hurts all the seeds in the refrigerator consciousness, okay, which could appear to you as physical things, okay? When you do the formless realm meditations, it damages the seeds that would cause physical stuff to appear to you, okay? So for as long as you stay in the formless realm after that, nothing that has physicality will appear to you.

Okay, it's not possible. Then he says, for example, there's a parallel experience. When you do the meditation we call going beyond discrimination, okay, it hurts the seeds of all six consciousnesses that are in the refrigerator.

So until such time as you come out of that meditation, you won't have the six kinds of awareness. And that's why it's a temporary suppression of the six awarenesses, all of them, in that deep meditation, because you have damaged the seeds. So the mind-only guys are struggling to explain instances where you don't have any seeds opening for either physical stuff or mental stuff, okay?

Now, somebody makes an objection. Here's the objection. Hey, look, if that's true, then the kung qi, the refrigerator of a person in the formless realm doesn't focus on anything at all.

They don't look at anything at all. Why? Because nothing physical can appear to them, okay?

Then you can say, well, what about their mind? Doesn't their mind appear to them? But no, you cannot say that you are looking at the seeds.

In this case, when you are in the formless realm, you cannot say you are looking at the seeds. That's one of the three kinds of objects of perception in the mind-only school. There are three objects of perception in the mind-only school.

One is objects of the sense powers like colors, sounds, things like that. The second is the sense powers themselves, like you are aware of your eye, you are aware of your ears, you are aware of your nose, okay? And then thirdly, there is a third kind of perception which is focusing on the seeds in the kunshi.

Then he says, well, according to you then, since there is nothing that we can even relate to the seeds that we would be looking at, and obviously there is no physical objects and there is no sense powers, then aren't you, if you really agree to that, dūna means, this guy says dūna, if you agree to that idea, then you have accepted kelambha, a state of mind which has no object, which Buddhism says is impossible.

So the guy is making an objection. I can't believe you said that in the formless realm, there is nothing that we look upon as an object because we can't look at physical things, which is the objects and the sense powers. But also we are not looking at the seeds.

Why are we not looking at the seeds themselves? According to the mind-only school, the perception in the formless realm depends on the process of naming things. The perception of non-physical things in the formless realm requires you to name things or label things.

But how are you going to label things if you don't have sounds, or thoughts of words, or pictures? How can you have a picture of a thing if you can't see anything physical? How can you even have a mental picture of something?

There's no luminous images either according to you. Then we say, come on, there's no such problem. Why?

Because this famous book of Asanga says, let's consider non-objects. Let's consider non-objects. Like what?

Like the past. Like yesterday's dinner. I mean before you ate it.

Let's take your dreams. Let's take objects in your dreams. Let's take the two kinds of reflections.

The two kinds of reflections. These don't exist as objects. Therefore, they are objects.

They are objects which are non-existent. But you can think about them. You can perceive them.

This is Asanga, who's the grandfather of the Mainomi school. Look, there's stuff in the universe that's not real yet, and you can perceive it. We can call them objects.

Because the guy said, look, there's three classic kinds of objects in the Mainomi school. One, outer stuff. Colors, shapes, sounds.

Now in the formless realm, you don't have them. Then the second kind of objects in the Mainomi school is the sense powers, but you don't have those. The third kind of object in the Mainomi school is when you're actually just looking at the seas and you think you see something, but you don't.

Like you think you see something outside, or you think you hear something, but you don't. Then he says, look, the third one's not so bad. The third one's not so bad.

In the formless realm, you can perceive things just as potentials. What do you mean? Do you have an example, stuff like that?

Yeah, the path. You can think about the path. It's gone.

It doesn't exist anymore, but you can have a perception of it. What about things you see in a dream? They have some existence.

What about the two kinds of reflections? They are not real objects, but you can perceive them. Mekpa yipa mayin.

They are not real objects, but they la mekpa rum. It's fine to look at them. You can watch a dream.

$50 for the two kinds of reflections. Recovery. By the way, it's not clear.

Even a geshe wouldn't know without checking a commentary. Okay. We found a commentary that said, reflections in a mirror.

That one's easy, right?

[Speaker 2]
Reflections in a mirror.

[Speaker 1]
But you mentioned it.

[Speaker 2]
In a dream was one.

[Speaker 1]
No, no. That's another example. Reflections in a mirror are different examples.

The first one is from the mirror. The second one is the perception in a death meditation of the world turning into, you know, you do this impermanence meditation from the shores of the ocean back to the house you're living in. You imagine everything as wasted, like a nuclear bomb.

You do a death meditation. It's called mikdupa, a meditation on frighteningly disturbing images. This is supposed to shake you out of your attachment to things.

It's an old Abhidharma meditation of disaster. You pretend a nuclear bomb has already gone off. And then you watch your country destroyed from the edges of the oceans all the way to the middle of your forehead.

Okay? It's a very powerful meditation. So those are the two reflections.

Okay? Good? You guys?

Hello?

[Speaker 3]
Can I ask a question?

[Speaker 1]
No. Somebody say yes, Geshe-la. I understand.

Yes, Geshe-la. Okay. What's the question?

[Speaker 3]
Thank you. So thoughts are not objects of the mind?

[Speaker 1]
No, because in the mind... This argument goes like this. There's only three possible...

There's only three... Somebody has to turn off their mic. There's only three possible objects of perception.

A, the objects of awareness. B, the states of mind which perceive those objects as awareness. And C, seeds you are looking at in your own refrigerator who appear to you as objects.

[Speaker 3]
And thoughts are not number one?

[Speaker 1]
Excuse me? Yeah, I don't know. It's just traditional to divide it that way.

And so that guy's argument is, well, how can you see anything in the formless realm then? Because we know you can't see physical things. And it's going to come, an argument that says, you can't even name the things that appear to be coming out of the seeds.

You can't even name them, because names are also form. Either they are sounds, or they are pictures in the mind. So how can there be any perception in the formless realm, according to you?

And here's a nice section about it that I would like to read together.

[Speaker 3]
Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
This is from a mind-only text by a great Lama called Kyutsang. Kyutsang Lama. And it's related to our monastery.

And I love this section, and I think it will help a lot. It's not too long. Well, let's see how long.

I promise not to go too far, Word. Okay? You okay?

Let's go. Who's going to be the checker chooser? Checker chooser.

Word, do you want to nominate somebody?

[Speaker 2]
I don't know if Chunzong is a good chooser.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, checker chooser. I knew that was coming. Hey, Chunzong, who's the checker?

Stanley. Stanley, can you choose people from the whole call who might not be?

[Speaker 3]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Okay? Because it would be fun for them, because they don't get to translate.

[Speaker 3]
Catherine Yen. She's translating.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 3]
Oh, Tangtang. Then you can do, can you? Yeah, sure.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, who do you choose for the first group, Tangtang? Tangtang is the checker. I'm the checker.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Okay.

Try to make Word suffer, because he steals money from me every day. Cool. Cool.

Okay, good. Everybody's pronunciation has improved. SUMEGS KYI KUN ZHI LA Let's talk about the refrigerator consciousness of a person in the formless realm.

Can the sense powers, wang, and by the way, it's very important to split these two words, word. Can the sense powers and the objects of the sense powers appear to it? And we say no, cannot.

Well, then even if you describe looking at the seeds themselves, focusing on the seeds themselves the way that you've done it before, then we'd have to say there's no way that you could posit perception going on in the formless realm. It's not possible, because you can't even focus on the seeds, which is the third option of perception in the Mainomi school. Therefore, you would have no objects at all.

Okay? There would be no objects at all. Now, what's up next, Chendam?

[Speaker 3]
Hello? What's up, Chendam?

[Speaker 2]
Zhu?

[Speaker 1]
Okay.

[Speaker 2]
I am. Zhu is...

[Speaker 1]
Connie?

[Speaker 2]
Connie?

[Speaker 1]
Okay, good. So, this whole piece from here is an objection, and sometimes it's not clear, so I've been adding these words. Okay, the whole thing is an objection, and now here comes the end of the objection.

If you agree that the three methods of focusing on an object are not possible in the formless realm, then you would have to say that it does become possible, sipa gyur, to have a state of mind, which is devoid of any object of its perception. You can have a state of mind with no object of perception, which is illegal in every school of Buddhism. Okay?

Not possible. But according to you, possible. And by the way, there's been books written about this subject.

The Saramay textbooks for Mind-Only School mainly just talk about this question. All right. Let's go, Word.

And Mahayana Sangraha of Asanga says, Hey, no problem. Let's look at this quotation. The past, things like the past, and dreams, and the two kinds of reflections, they are not objects of perceptions.

Therefore, we just have to call them objects of perception. They are not real objects of perception, but we have to say they are objects of perception. They can be objects of perception.

You can have a dream, and in a dream you can see color. All right. Chintam, who's the referee?

Linda. Okay, let's go. Okay.

Yeah, now, I'll never forget. It was a great question in New York City during one of my early ACI classes. I remember who asked the question.

It was that guy who owned the building that we stayed in. Leon. Leon, yeah.

Yeah, Leon, and he asked such a great question. He said, Isn't it an Abhidharma principle that the object triggers the consciousness? You open your eyes in front of a green drink.

You open your eyes in front of a green drink. Then the green drink will trigger an awareness of the green drink. I said, Yeah, that's an Abhidharma idea.

Then he said, But in Middle Way, don't you say that everything's coming from the other way, from the seed? I said, Yeah, and this is a basic contradiction. That comes up in Buddhism.

I think we should go deeper in this verse, and I think we should have either a huge footnote or a little appendix about it. It's not the case that all states of mind are defined by perceiving an object. It's not the case that all states of mind are established because they see an object.

They don't have to depend on that. What do you mean? Well, we can also say more particularly, to give you a specific case, Chedak Dur, the foundation consciousness itself is not something which is established in terms of something we see.

SEMS MED DMIGS PA YOD PA'I TSE NI SEMS MED DMIGS PA YOD PA'I TSE NI The definition of existence is that thing which is perceived with a correct perception, accurate perception. He says, look, you can't say that in this school anymore. You can't say that in this school anymore.

Why? Because the foundation consciousness itself is not established through the process of being an object of perception. Well, then what?

GYIS. GYIS means rather. Rather.

It's just something flowing out of karma. LAS KYI STOBS KYIS It's just something flowing out of karma. It's not that an apple exists out there and it triggers an awareness of it when you open your eyes.

There's things in the universe whose existence is only posited through the power of karma. Cool? This is a very interesting discussion.

This is the answer to Leon's question. If you see Leon, you got to tell him. LAS KYI STOBS KYIS Tell him I'm talking about him.

How long can karma sustain a perception? How long can karma sustain a perception? Well, from the time Nyingtsamjor up to Shiva.

[Speaker 2]
From the time you cross into a new life until the time you die.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, what's the common English word for crossing into a new life?

[Speaker 2]
A conception.

[Speaker 1]
A conception. Conception. The sperm meets the egg.

So, you know, the guy says, well, how long can you sustain objects that don't rely on perception? And he says, you know what? Given the power of karma, you could sustain an object like your body from the moment you're conceived up to the day you die.

ZHIG PAR DU NAMN DU GYUR NAS GYUR MI BYAS PAR BYUG GO It has the capacity, the power, to continue on in an unbroken stream of ripening of karma, okay? And it doesn't depend on, as Adam's text would say, existence depends on perception. We say, no, when you get to the mind-only school, existence is sustained by karmic ripening, not by perception, okay?

All right, wow. Then he says, that doesn't, now he says, by the way, this quotation from a sangha is weird. I mean, the last two lines are especially weird.

You want some help with it? This is this guy, Kyu Tsang. He's so cute, cute.

Thank you. He says, by the way, you want to know what that quotation really means? Here we go.

[Speaker 2]
DE SOGS BRTZON PA'I ZHES PA LA MIG PA MED PAR BSTAN PA MIN GYI Keep going.

[Speaker 1]
NANG BA'I MIG PA NGOS POR GRUB PA GYUR MI MI STO ZHES PA'I TSOR NO Yeah, this is very sexy. DE SOGS BRTZON PA'I ZHES PA LA This is not indicating, the verse is not indicating, BSTAN PA MIN what this verse is not saying is that the state of mind which is holding an object from the past, like your first girlfriend in grade school or your first boyfriend, it's not saying that those states of mind have no object. It's not saying that.

It's not saying that they have no object. They do have an object and that's the past. What it's saying is, DOD NO What it's really saying is that the existence, I'm sorry, what it's really saying is those perceptions are not dependent upon the question of whether the object that they think they see exists or not.

Whether or not they are perceiving the world is not positive on the basis of whether what they're looking at really exists or not. Really exists? Yeah.

DNGOS POR GRUB PA exists as real things. YOD MED is not in the discussion. Whether the thing they're looking at really exists or not is not relevant here.

We're not dealing with that. What it's saying is you can look at, you can meditate on a llama and you can be focusing on that picture. It's not real.

It doesn't exist as a llama. But still we can say it's an object of the mind. Still we can say it's an object of the mind.

That's what the verse is saying. That's what the verse is saying. Now, you want to go deeper?

[Speaker 3]
Does it depend on us having agreed with what was just said?

[Speaker 1]
No, that's a whole different thing. I'm just translating.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Word. Word.

[Speaker 2]
Good.

[Speaker 1]
Now don't forget that we had sort of thrown out the third option that even though admittedly you're not looking at an outside apple and you're not perceiving any sense power or you are still looking at seed. You are looking at the stuff in the refrigerator when you experience things in the formless realm, even in the formless realm. You still have thoughts, for example.

,'UN KYANG GSUM MED KYI KUN ZHI LA MIG PA MED PA MA YIN TE We never said that the KUN ZHI of a formless realm being had no object of its perception. It's not the case. Even though there's no physical objects to be seen, even though there's no physical senses to help you see them, we are not saying that you have nothing that you're aware of in the formless realm.

Well, give me some examples. It's perfectly possible. NANG RUNG It's perfectly possible, for example, that from the bak chak, from the deep seeds, you could think that you saw even an outside object.

And have a sense power of it. It seems like you could even have a dream in the formless realm. It is possible.

Why? Because of these incredibly powerful forces. NGON RDZU BDAG DA and SIPA'I YAN LA What are those things?

What's NGON RDZU, you guys? Do you remember a word? NGON RDZU GYI BAG CHAG Oh, sorry.

NGON RDZU is the since countless, since infinite past, we call things, we put labels on them. Yeah, labels that we've gotten used to with time with no beginning, that even though they don't have any actual reality. And BDAG DA, we have a belief in a self, which is also perceiving something that's not there.

And we have SIPA'I YAN LA. The various SIPA'I YAN LA. Huh?

Of links? I would say links, yeah. These are all flowing out of seeds.

You are focusing on seeds. And you have these questionable perceptions. Okay?

They are running off of karma. They are not running off of an object which triggers the perception. BAG CHAG DE'I RNAM DE MIG PA Therefore, we say that people in the formless realm are focusing on the seeds.

They are seeing all kinds of mirages, just from past habits of language, from ignorance about what's a real self, and from different components of the wheel of life. They still experience them. All right.

Now, we wrap up with a very, I mean, not just this quotation by Kyu Tsang, which I think is a great way to get into where it's text again in the new term, is a 40-minute review of Kyu Tsang. Okay. Word.

Let's go. Okay. Okay, good.

And I'm going to say, translate. All right. For example, ne here means a noun.

Barley. Yay, barley. Barley, et cetera.

Dru means a grain. Jang means a silo. Like a grain silo or a grain storehouse.

Dzu kosha means the same thing, storehouse. And this jang is a completely unusual usage of jang, right? I found it in the dictionary down here.

Bangwa means storehouse. So, talking about barley seeds, dzun, they are sitting, nepa, in these pieces, ne dok, these chunks, these single grains of barley, ne dok, gam shilwa, totally dry, totally dried out. And chi means with the S, okay?

Word. Chi. If later on, gen nam pena, if they meet with the proper factors, if they meet up with the proper factors, nyu ku gi.

They'll become sprouts. They'll grow into sprouts. Yeah, they'll sprout.

Okay. And now, here's the sexy part. Because they are available to grow now in their dry state, we still refer to them as causes of the sprout, which hasn't come out yet, sprout causes.

They are sprout causes. They are in a, what do you call that? Latent.

Latent, beautiful, yeah. They are in a latent state, but we still call them a cause of the sprout, okay? So, he's trying to describe the epistemological status of focusing on seeds, okay?

Got it? In the kunshi, okay? When you're in the formless realm.

The whole treatment of how you can perceive things in the formless realm and still defend kunshi is tough. And here's a great explanation, I think. And it's something to think about, okay?

[Speaker 3]
So, Geshe-la, they're the causes of the sprout or a sprout?

[Speaker 1]
We can still call them sprout causes. Okay? All right, now we're ready to start the text.

Okay. Okay, we just quoted this verse from, we just, in words, real text, we just quoted Asanga. And now here's Tsongkhapa's treatment of that quotation.

Yay! Who's the policeman? Alison.

Okay, Alison. Yes? You're checking, here we go.

Shesungpatar. Shibitamse mikpa yupa latu mikku ki chijaktu kunshini. Nyunggi demigei leki dendro tang ngenjoyi shirpangne chitsi ma shi pardu.

SKYE GCIG KYANG MIN GDOG NA, PHEN BYED KYI LAS KYI THOB GYIS NANG BA'I MIG PA LA BRTOS NAS MI MA YIN NO Good, Shesung Butar, now here's Tsongkhapa's explanation of the same verse. ,ZHES PA THAMS CAD MIG PA LA YOD PA LA BRTOS MI DGOS, It is not the case that all states of mind must rely upon an object. Wow, totally against all Buddhism.

It is not the case that all states of mind must rely upon an object, the presence of an object, MIG PA YOD PA. And more, and rather, kyi, rather, more particularly, CHE DAG GDU, KUN ZHIG, the refrigerator state of mind, is PHA RIG, is thrown forth as the foundation for good births and bad births, all depending on previous good and bad karma. Karma is running the show, not the presence of objects.

Perception is being sustained by karma and not by objects. You can experience this, if your channels get kind of open, you can stop breathing for 10 minutes, 20 minutes, half an hour. And then you realize, life is not sustained by breath or food.

Life is only sustained by karma. NYAN DUR ZHIG PHAG NAS, and that's what a real Kevala Kumbhaka is. CI SRID MA ZHIG PAR DU, until the day you die.

The same idea, CI SRID MA ZHIG PAR DU, until the day you die. SKAD CIG KYANG, not even for a second, MIN SDOG, does that reality, what do you call that? It doesn't, it's like hesitate, pause.

It doesn't pause even for a second, even for a single second. The KUN ZHIG throws out a world, whether it's a good birth or a bad birth, and that world is sustained by your karma until the day you die. This is running on PEN CIG GI LAS KYI STOB.

This is running on the power of what, Word? The power of that throwing, the momentum of good and bad seeds. Projecting karma, right.

And the key here is, but, rather, right, what? Give me the last line. For zero dollars, but a thousand dollars in my heart.

But while in fact it doesn't appear that those objects are depending on such thing, even it appears that they aren't depending on those seeds, the objects. No, it is not a thing which is waiting for an object to appear to it. The process of perception is being driven by karma and not by the appearance of objects in its world.

Okay, it doesn't have to wait for the appearance of an apple to see an apple. Okay, wow, okay.

[Speaker 3]
So then why can't we say that people in the, mind-only people in the formless realm are seeing apples? Because they're seeing KUN ZHIG. The KUN ZHIG is just ripening for them, whether they're in or out of the formless realm.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it's a good question. And the answer to that is that the meditation which has thrown them there is more refined than physical matter, okay.

[Speaker 3]
No, what's physical matter? Isn't it prasangika that says that, yeah, physical matter is because you create physical matter with your karma, but does mind only say that? No, they say what outer object?

It's all KUN ZHIG.

[Speaker 1]
But they would say that even the KUN ZHIG can't appear physical to a person in the formless realm because of the...

[Speaker 2]
The karmic seeds are unripened.

[Speaker 1]
How fine-tuned their perceptions are. Do we have any more time? Can we keep going?

Sorry. Nine minutes, nine minutes. Okay, let's go, Uncle Word.

Who's checking?

[Speaker 3]
Microphone.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, sorry, Utpala. This is, wow, this is Tsongkhapa, wow. Okay, dey tan ma, since that's the case, that since it's the case that your perceptions don't have to wait for an object to show up because the karma is throwing objects, okay, so in the formless realm, sukhmet tu, dön dang wangpo, now Word, you got to burn that into your brain because these authors of these mind-only texts keep saying dön wang.

They keep saying dön wang. And here Tsongkhapa, God bless him, he split it. Dön dang wangpo, the object of the sense power and the sense power.

MED, they don't exist there in the formless realm. Okay, so among the three modes of perceiving an object, mikpa sumle, and we're going to cover it later, among the three possible modes of perceiving an object, we are only left with perceiving the seeds, focusing on the seeds and thinking you see things, as in a dream, okay, as in a meditation. Okay, so we are down to the third because we can't have the first two.

YIN LA, DE YANG BAG CHAGS MED PA RGYUR BA'I DOD NGOS SU MED KYANG, now listen, the BAG CHAGS, mental seeds, don't really qualify really as what we normally think of as an object, okay, and it was even uncomfortable to say it, wasn't it? Oh, they are focusing on seeds, okay. Look, I admit that.

NGOS SU MED, I admit that when we talk about focusing on a seed, we are not talking about an object in the normal sense of the word, okay, but still, they too, due to the power of those seeds, what's it mean to focus on a seed is that those seeds have the power to appear, NGOS SU MED, as your world, MED, as objects in your world, DOD, even as your own body, LU, okay, therefore, therefore, we say the seeds are the objects of the awareness, okay, why? Because they have the potential to appear as your world, or as objects in that world, or as your body, okay.

Now the three kinds of MED PA, the three kinds of perceiving an object were discussed previously, okay, they were listed previously here, and I chopped it out for you, okay, I didn't bold it because it has bold inside of it that I didn't want to lose, okay, so, MED GYUR, all objects in the mind only school can be divided into three, one, the DONS, okay, which are things you can see, things you can hear, things you can smell, things you can taste, things you can touch, those five, B, or the DBANG PO, okay, DON DBANG, right, DON DBANG, the sense powers of your eyes, ears, nose, tongue, and skin, right, which you can call the person, but it's a little bit of a misnomer here, okay, and now here's the one we're really interested in, BDAG DANG PHYIR KUN LTAS PA'I DNGUL NYID LA SNGON PAR GZHAN PA'I BAG CAG The seed where you are attached or attracted to the idea that you and objects around you have some essence of their own, okay, which are actually only nominal, okay, okay, so there he treats the question of the three kinds of objects, let's go one more, we have time, let's do this sentence, who's the policeman? Yeshula, one thing, yeah, we haven't necessarily determined that these are the only objects in the mind only school, only that these are the objects that the ten of the kunshi can see, oh yeah, wow, you bring it up with some kapa, okay, I mean I'm just saying you could bring something like that up, that's how I get out of this stuff, go ahead, read this sentence Good, for example, a seed which is sitting in a silo, okay, if it meets up with the proper conditions, ken dang chen na, it is appropriate for a sprout to grow from it, okay, and because of that we call them things which can provide factors for sprouts, okay, conditions for sprouts, we can call them that, and I like Kyutsang's clarification that the emphasis is on dry dead pieces of barley that we wouldn't think of as a living plant, okay, really cool, really cool section, let's go, we got two more minutes, let's use it, who's the checker police? Lily, yay Lily!

[Speaker 2]
DE LTAR CHEN NA SOGS MED KYI KUN ZHI LAG SOGS CHEN GYI MYOS CHUN NANG ZHIG KHA CHIG NDON PA NDON PA NI THUG GYUR RTOG

[Speaker 1]
DE LTAR CHEN NA, given all this, okay, the statement by some people, the belief by some people, Kha Chig Ddonpa, the belief by some people, that to the kun zhi of a formless realm being, SOGS MED KYI KUN ZHI, the world and the people in the world who are physical could appear to that foundation consciousness, okay, that's just Ndonpa Ni, okay, they just stuck in their own idea and nothing more, okay, Ni, Ndonpa means to add something to a text, okay, Ndonpa means, Poke somebody or something too, like stab? That's with an O I think, so he says look, that's a, the Ni is very damning language and it's pure, pure corruption, it's a pure adulteration, okay, pure addition of their own ideas, okay, nothing more, sheer, sheer, sheer imagination, okay, all right, let's go, let's finish this last sentence, this was a tough section. Okay, good, and by the way, that the guy that Tsongkapa was ragging on in the last sentence, Tsongkapa would have to admit that we skated very close to this idea, didn't we, you know, he was skating very close to the idea that even in the formless realm you could be seeing things that had form, okay, so I don't, I think he's being kind of mean to this guy, okay, SOGS MED DU DE LTAR YIN NA, now this is a question, Shena, okay, question, somebody comes and says to Tsongkapa, okay, SOGS MED DU DE LTAR YIN NA, I understand that this is the way things are in the formless realm, but is it also the case in the two lower realms, the desire realm and the form realm, that KUN ZHIG GCIG LA, to a single KUN ZHIG consciousness, ALAYA VIJNANA, all of the different objects, ZE, of the world and its contents could appear, could they also appear to a single KUN ZHIG, okay, and the question by the way here is, I understand what you said about the formless realm, you're taking the formless realm as one unit, you know, as one location, now is that the way all the realms work?

For example, if you get born into the desire realm, are you eligible to see everything in the desire realm or not? Meaning, can human beings see the real hell realms as they're sitting in the human realm, which is just a subcategory of the desire realm, so if you're born into the desire realm or you're born into the form realm, are you implying that you can see all the sectors of that realm or not? Okay, that's the question.

Cool? And as you know, Wheel of Life stories of people who went to the hell realms and brought back stories, in fact, the Wheel was painted by those people in one of the three cases, okay, stop here, yay, word. Ashola?

Yeah? Oh, I just, I looked up some stuff for you, I just want to check really quick. Okay.

I think in someone's book we were doing Kepar Jog, the six qualities. Yeah, yeah, yeah, if you could find those, I'd much appreciate it. Well, is it the same as as Keche Juki Kepar, or it's different?

Keche Juki Kepar, Keche, I don't know what you're talking about, Keche. Oh, Keche, no, I don't think it is. There is an interesting candidate, which is the powers in the second chapter of the Abhidharma.

There's a list of six powers and the last one is Sokh, but I'm not quite, I didn't quite buy it yet. Okay, because I found references, but I couldn't read the Tibetan well enough to say. Yeah, I think there's got to be a reference somewhere, it's a list of metaphors, like you're killing the life of your wisdom, okay.

I think it's going to be a list of sexy metaphors, one of which is you are sticking a knife into your perception of emptiness. I think they're going to be like that, I think they're going to be sexy, we got to find them. Okay, okay, one more thing, you know, in I think Seiji's class we had Marju, which meant like like red hot grabbing, grab the red.

I found Marju, Marju can also mean like to bite up, to give yourself indigestion, so biting off more than you or something. It can mean to digest, yeah, it is the word for digest also. Let me think about that.

Yeah, so I don't know. Okay, yeah, it can refer to the melting of food in the stomach, yeah, I'll think about it. Okay, all right, but thank you.

I'm excited that you are, you keep finding things that are helpful to me and I appreciate it. Swaha was a big breakthrough for me. Oh yeah, that was fun.

That was awesome. Okay, let's do it. Okay.

Hey, is Adam there? Is Adam there?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
You want to go on a night hike?

[Speaker 2]
Sure, again.

[Speaker 1]
Did you ever do that when you were like a boy scout or something? Yeah, I've done many. Wow, I just occurred to me that I could go for a night hike and get some exercise.

I'm going to pick a flat place in the desert, okay? That sounds good. Okay, so let's say, I don't know, well, I'll call you.

It'd be like 720 or 725, something like that.

[Speaker 2]
I'll talk to you then.

[Speaker 1]
Get a good flashlight and get some extra batteries because you have more cliffs there than I have.

[Speaker 2]
That's true.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, bye.