Тим Ловенхопт — Книга 1: Совершенство мудрости, занятие 9

[Speaker 2]
Where is Timothy?

[Speaker 1]
Right here. Timothy, how do you feel? I feel much better now that I slept.

Yeah, I took two naps yesterday. I'm starting to get like Maitri. All right, do you have a homework for us, Tim?

I do have a homework for you. Here it is, all right. Okay, all right, here we go.

Quiz one of the Dialectical Analysis of the Perfection of Wisdom. All right, we started off with Arya Sangha's biography. And we learned that Lord Buddha predicted Arya Sangha's appearance in this world some 900 years beforehand.

So when the first thing we learned about was there were two negative circumstances about the state of Buddhism that Arya Sangha observed and compelled him to teach. What were those two things? What was going on with Buddhism at the time of Arya Sangha?

Venerable Sunim says the accountants were attacking. That's perfect. Could you say a little bit more about that, Sunim?

What do you mean by that? I'm probably going to go to some hell realm where people who called the Vaibhashika accountants, I don't know.

[Speaker 2]
Like lots of emptiness teachings but not hard teachings?

[Speaker 1]
Not exactly. So what was going on with the Mahayana at the time?

[Speaker 2]
Oh, they were denied as not taught by Buddha.

[Speaker 1]
Right. So what happened because some people claimed it wasn't being taught by Lord Buddha? It was quiet.

It wasn't being taught much. Thank you, Venerable Upala. Cool.

So what was going on even within the Hinayana schools? They were arguing and they split up, splintered. Into many subgroups.

Right. And so what happened to those teachings? They degenerated.

Yay. Well, not yay, but... No.

But they were degenerating as well. All right. Good job.

Okay. So this one is a fun, I think is a fun question. All right.

So the prediction of Arya Sangha's appearance can be found in the root Tantra of Arya Manjushri spoken by Lord Buddha. This particular line, highlighted at the beginning of this question, has some special significance. And I highlighted some words to give you some clues.

Nice question. So what is the special significance of this line? And how could we relate it to the degeneration of the Mahayana in the first question?

[Speaker 2]
Wow. Yeah. It's a question.

Figurative and ritual.

[Speaker 1]
Correct.

[Speaker 2]
And...

[Speaker 1]
So... Each of the others thought the other schools were being figurative and the ones that they liked were literal.

[Speaker 2]
So it seems like everyone was running around saying the ones they liked was literal and the other ones weren't.

[Speaker 1]
Ah, close. Roxanna has most of the answer in the chat. Roxanna, do you want to turn on?

It's the first part, the special significance. What do you mean by he will divide the scriptures into figurative and literal? Who's he?

[Speaker 2]
Arya Sangha.

[Speaker 1]
Correct. So it was predicted that Arya Sangha will do it. But what's the special significance that the Buddha mentioned that there will be someone who will divide things into figurative and literal?

[Speaker 2]
Things meaning his own teachings. That divisions will be created among the Sangha?

[Speaker 1]
No, no, no, no.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, okay. Yeah, he hasn't thought that like the third turning of the wheel and he's speaking about it before. Something like that.

[Speaker 1]
Right. Basically, the Buddha was saying, yo guys, someone is going to have to interpret what I said. Someone's going to have to come and say, some of the things I said were literal, and some of the things I said were figurative, and someone's going to have to figure that out.

And basically said that Arya Sangha would be doing that. And then, Upala, what you said was correct for the second part of the question. That there was a degeneration because first of all, they said Lord Buddha didn't speak to Mahayana.

And then secondly, no one had really interpreted it yet. Interpreted what the Buddha had said, whether he meant it was literal or figurative. All right, let's go.

By the way, I think it's also kind of an announcement by Lord Buddha that I will be dumbing down some stuff in the future. And just be aware of that. And you're going to have to think carefully about whether what I said was true, or I was dumbing it down from some of the audience.

Okay, cool. Thank you. All right.

All right. So then after we did that, we jumped into the text. And we had just received a...

We were just introduced to the idea of innovators and marketers, which we'll talk about in a second. So someone comes along and provides some unsolicited feedback, the cut cheek. And that person suggests that there's no more or no less than four innovators within Buddhism.

And who are those four suggested innovators? Whoa. Yay, that's the first one.

Arya Nagarjuna. Who's the second suggested innovator? Excuse me?

Alex, no. You're wrong on both counts. They said Maitreya.

Right, the second one was Lord Maitreya. Who's the third one? Master Dignaga and Dhanustra Sena.

Svetlana got it in the chat as well. So we have Master Dignaga. How do we know this is Master Dignaga in the picture?

He's debating. A halo. No, I'm just kidding.

He's about to hit his student on the head. Halo. All right.

And then, yeah, Word and Svetlana got it. Master Dignaga. And I couldn't find a picture of him, but this is a...

What does his name mean? Elephant Tusk Warrior. Elephant Tusk Warrior.

So I found a picture of some armies on elephants. Nice picture. Nice homework, by the way.

Cool. All right, here we go. Some STWs.

I hope I don't catch it. So these two words showed up in our homework. Kind of pronounced the same.

Exactly. So what do they mean and what's the difference? On the left, it means a certain number.

Fixed at a certain number. Correct. So we translate as no more, no less, meaning a specific number.

And what does the one on the right mean? Say it using text. Compound noun, which means two things.

Figurative and literal.

[Speaker 2]
Correct.

[Speaker 1]
How do we more eloquently say that in, say, ACI 15? I'm assuming art of interpretation or something like that. Correct.

Yes. It depends on the context. Correct.

Right. Yes, it's not always that, but that's what we're meaning here. All right.

And then there's two more words that we need to know to move on in the text just to review them. Nice. What does the one on the left mean?

A wagon builder. A wagon builder. I like that.

How about, what word have we been using for that? For a wagon builder?

[Speaker 2]
Innovator.

[Speaker 1]
Innovator. Okay. Right.

Other ideas, like a founder of a new system. I like driver of the chariot. What about the one on the right?

Shinta Sulsin.

[Speaker 2]
Marketer.

[Speaker 1]
A marketer. Now, I don't want to be disspective here. Like a marketer, we're not saying marketers are less than.

Okay. Right. But how else could we describe that?

Someone who carries a tradition, maybe. Right. Yeah.

Like the holder of a tradition, the carrier of the tradition. I like the idea of someone who's kind of holding on to like a mechanic, making sure it stays together.

[Speaker 2]
Someone who keeps the wheel running.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. It keeps it going. Keeps the wheels turning.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Keeps the wheels turning. All right. Cool.

Good job, guys. Very nice homework. Really nice homework.

Thank you for spending. I know you're a really, really busy person. Thank you for spending the time.

Somehow he does everything. Maybe he doesn't sleep or something. All right.

Here we go. So where we are in the text is we just got the four potential innovators from some unsolicited feedback. And then we start off the debate about how we determine what actually is an innovator.

And what's interesting, what comes up is that we don't start with Ariya Nagarjuna. The next line of the text starts with Maitreya, which I find interesting, that we kind of skip one and go to number two. So anyhow, Geshe-la, this is what I put together.

And did you put a copy up there in the drive? Uh, no, not yet. Busted.

Busted. It's on the screen. Did you send that to me as you said?

After we do this.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, all right.

[Speaker 1]
Let's see here. So basically, this section starts giving us a definition of what is an innovator in these two sections. So Geshe-la, this is what I tried.

And could you check it out? Yeah, okay. Whenever you see tel, like in the third line in the middle, it's a sarcastic statement, okay?

So well then, ona means well then, are you saying that the holy Maitreya, our protector, and then that's supposed to be a sarcastic question. Okay, are you saying that he did not follow another innovator? Are you saying that his fear of activity was this world, planet Earth?

And are you saying that he commented on the meaning of the sutras independently, okay, without help from other people? So there's three elements of the definition here. Are you saying that he didn't follow other innovators?

Are you saying that his fear of activity was this planet, okay? And are you saying he commented on the scriptures in an independent way? And then the other guy says, in an independent way, and then the other guy says to tel, he says what?

He said, well, then he is an innovator. No, he goes, chi chi, chi chi, you know. No, I didn't say that, okay.

Yeah, well, why do you say that? Why do you say that? Why do you say that I believe that Maitreya fits these three requirements?

Why do you think that I say that Maitreya fits these three requirements? Because he's an innovator, according to you. Okay.

And by the way, his response in the Mixed Nuts translation system, we put it in parentheses. We supply his response in italics, sorry, in italics. So after the word independent way, he will say, why do you say that?

Yeah, because according to you, he's an innovator, all right. All right, cool. All right, thank you.

All right. Yeah, nice, okay. All right, well then, let's push this one down.

Now, when you have a tel, when you have a tel that goes down, are you saying he fits these three requirements of an innovator? And YIN PA THAL, are you saying that? He can either say, yes, I agree, or he can say CI PHYIR.

Why do you say that to me? So we finished the CI PHYIR answer already. He said, well, why do you say that?

And why do you say he's got to have those three qualities? So you said he was an innovator. And then he says, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, so I disagree. Okay, YIN PA THAL, are you saying he fits these three requirements? No, he doesn't.

I'm sorry, DUD MI NUS is, he's not, sorry, DUD MI NUS DE YIN PA THAL. You cannot agree to our statement. You cannot agree back at the tel.

Okay, so agreeing back at the tel means, yes, he does fit these three requirements. I agree. So really, in the italics, it would be, you know what?

I agree to your original statement. That's how we usually translate it. I agree.

I agree to your original statement. And this is understood. And this is what the Khachik's saying, right?

Yeah, when he says DE. And then the next line out of italics, skip a line, we say, if you do agree, if you do agree, I'm sorry, but you cannot agree. Right.

But you cannot agree, because, well, this is a long sentence. This, you cannot agree because Lord Maitreya composed scriptures such as the, number top again, the, what do you call it? Ornamented Realization or Jewel of Realization.

Jewel of Realizations, yeah, such as the Jewel of Realizations, comma, in which he set forth the stages of realization, comma, which are the hidden subject matter of the sutras, semi-colon, and he did so in Tushita Heaven, in the heaven of joy or something, comma, without following anyone else. Any other innovator, any other, yeah. So Tim, if there's three requirements so far for an innovator, which one have we just blown up?

The one about the, that has to be in this world versus in Tushita. Yeah, the sphere of his activity has to be this planet Earth. Okay, yeah, so he doesn't qualify as an innovator.

Yeah, according to our definition of an innovator. Okay, and by the way, I just wanted to give you guys a pep talk about innovator. Traditionally, there's only been two in two and a half thousand years.

In two and a half thousand years, there's only been two people who were smart enough to present the teachings in a radically new way, but still completely following Lord Buddha. Okay, they presented the teachings in a radical new way, but still completely followed what Lord Buddha meant. So, it's a kind of a comment to us about how much can you modify the teachings when you teach them to people.

You know, you can go either, it's a dangerous game, and it's a high profit game. Okay, it can help millions of people if you do it right, and it can ruin the teachings if you do it wrong. So, it's a very delicate topic, and it's significant that Kedrup Denpa Dargye chose it as the first topic of thousands of pages of commentary.

When can we take liberties with the teaching to make it relevant to modern people? What things can we not take liberties with without ruining the Dharma? You see, it's a very, very important question.

All of us who are teachers, it's a very important question. And do you know if other traditions accept other innovators? Is that unique to our lineage, or is that kind of accepted throughout the Tibetan traditions?

I don't know, to be honest. We don't spend a lot of time on it, yeah. I don't actually know.

But I can say that normally, when we have a debate in the scripture, either somebody was, believed it, some historical figure believed it, or our author is making up an opponent that would be useful. Okay, so, and I don't know which one it is, Nick, in this case. So, we got four innovators proposed, and we just blew up one of them.

Okay, yeah, good, all right. Where is this thing here? Why do I have this here?

I don't know. I'm going to see here, see here. May have just been to figure out who Dantra Sthema was.

Yeah, Dantra Sthena, something like that.

[Speaker 2]
You've got a list of 11 in here.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I think it's coming up next. Yeah, okay.

[Speaker 2]
Saiputra.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, so, are you saying that Maitreya was operating zamling deer, okay, in this world? And then we say, duminyute, you cannot agree to that, because he did his work in the Tushita heaven. Okay, cool.

So, actually, he's only blown up one of the four, am I right? The first, well, yeah, the second in the list, because it was first Nagarjuna. Yeah.

Which I'm guessing he's going to, you know, based on our point of view, is that Nagarjuna is one of the innovators. Oh, okay, by the way, this is why I have this here. When he describes Master Dantra Sthena, he says he's the guy who clarified the meaning of the mother.

What's that? Perfection of wisdom. Perfection of wisdom.

Yeah, the perfection of wisdom, or you can say the wife, the holy wife, through the three doors and through the 11 synonyms, okay? He used the three doors and the 11 synonyms to present the perfection of wisdom, okay? Who's that?

Kache Chewe De, Dantra Sthena. And kache means from Kashmir, okay? What does it mean nowadays?

Proponent? In modern Tibetan, it means a Muslim. In modern Tibetan, it means a Muslim.

In scripture Tibetan, it means someone from Kashmir, North India. So I say that Dantra Sthena, this great Indian pundit from Kashmir, I say that he was an innovator. Why?

He innovated the idea of the three doors and the 11 synonyms, okay? Or the 11 terms, okay? And being a mixed nut, Tim, We figured out, we have to decide, we have to figure out what those are.

Yeah, we don't make our readers suffer through the rest of their life wondering what were the three doors and the 11 terms, okay? We go find them. And that's just our policy.

And if you keep doing that for 10 or 20 years, you learn a lot, okay? So here we go. I went and found this commentary.

Nick, can you see who wrote 3807? I think it's Dantra Sthena. Oh, here it is.

Yeah, this is Dantra Sthena's commentary to the 100,000 verses, all right? He wrote a commentary to the 100,000 verses, which would be 5,000 English pages, okay? If we decide to translate it.

And I got the 11 terms for you, okay? Tim and the three doors. So this is your footnote material.

You ready? Who's going to help you read this? I don't see anybody.

Haso, you up for it? Okay, please read, Tim.

[Speaker 2]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, if you want to sound really sweet to a Tibetan, Okay. slightly geek-wise, the she in shirub, shirub, slightly. Almost shirub, shirub.

And it sounds better to a Tibetan, and they don't know why. Okay. What's this mean?

[Speaker 2]
Perfection of wisdom.

[Speaker 1]
Perfection of wisdom was taught by the conqueror. The conqueror using gosung.

[Speaker 2]
The three doors. The three doors.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, good. And hopefully he's going to tell us what they are. Okay, please.

All right, hang on. Okay, good. Please go ahead, Tim.

go mo pa'i ko wa dang nam par chu ne ko wa dang drang go pa'i duwa dang duwa nam par sum ne sam te Yeah, I don't know. I can't say. go mo pa'i go mo pa'i, if it's spelled right, it means the understanding that comes when we start out.

Okay? When we start the description. The understanding that comes...

The understanding that starts... that comes when we start our description. Okay?

This go means the head or the beginning. Usually it's spelled au gar. nam par chu ne ko wa Then the understanding we get when we get some detail.

Okay? drang go pa'i duwa dang The disciples... The disciples that we hope to lead.

drang go pa'i duwa And another topic called the three kinds of disciples. Okay? So, starting from those elements.

The understanding you get at the beginning. The understanding you get when we have some more detail. The kind of student that we hope to teach.

And the different kinds of students. We can say then that there are three doors. Okay?

And here's the three doors. Go ahead. Oh Please check it with hustle.

Yeah. dor tenpay go dang tring du tenpay go dang ge par tenpay go te go sung dang nam chung chu chik gi she te she te Good. Okay.

So, there are three doors through which the Buddha gave his presentation. dor tenpa He gave summaries. He gave summary presentations.

Then, secondly, he gave middle-length presentations. So, each of these is called a door. The door of short explanations.

The door of medium explanations. And the door of gyepa explanations. Yeah, extensive explanations.

Those are the three doors. Okay? So, if anybody asks you what are dantstra sena's three doors, it's that the Buddha gave short explanations, medium explanations, and long explanations using nam dang chu chik The eleven synonyms.

The eleven... And sometimes nam dang means a different presentation. Okay?

Alternate presentations. Okay? Sometimes nam dang means synonyms.

And sometimes nam dang means a different presentations. For example, in the Heart Sutra, the Buddha goes into a meditation called chu kyi nam dang ni ting ngen dzin which means a meditation on the different presentations of the Dharma. Okay?

So, here he says when the Buddha The Buddha used three doors of teaching, meaning short teachings, medium teachings, long teachings, and he used eleven presentations, or eleven versions of the Dharma. Okay? And here's dantstra sena's original presentation of the eleven.

Here they are. Please read number one. Haso, you're still there.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. So, first there's the version of the Dharma that he explained to Shariputra. Okay.

What katha are you guys?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
High, high, honorific. High, high, honorific. Which he bespoke.

We don't have honorific.

[Speaker 2]
Uh-oh.

[Speaker 1]
I mean, English speaking countries. Okay. All right.

So, first there's the So, he gave one version of the Dharma to Shariputra. Then what? Tim?

He gave how many presentations to Subuddhi? Five. Yeah, which brings us up to six.

Okay. Which brings us up to six versions of the Dharma. Then, please read the next one.

Yeah, and then he gave two presentations of the Dharma to Shakra, which means it's a worldly deity like Brahma or Vishnu. And what's his name mean, you guys? Destroyed a hundred towns or something?

Yeah, yeah. And I used to call him Hundred Gifts because I misunderstood the word Jin. And it doesn't mean gift here.

It means to destroy. And he's a powerful worldly deity called Destroyer of a Hundred Cities. I guess he destroyed a hundred cities in one day or something because he was irritated.

So, Buddha gave him two different teachings. Okay. Two different presentations of the Dharma.

You can call these 11 presentations, Tim. Okay, and then there's what? Two presentations to Maitreya.

Good. There's two presentations he gave to Maitreya. And then finally...

Who's correcting? Still Hasso. Right.

How do you pronounce that? Nui? Nui.

It's like gooey, but Nui. YONGS SU'I DE'I PHRAD PA'I PHRAD DANG, DI DAG NI RNAMS BYANG CHUB KYI DGOS Good. So, the 11th presentation of the 11 famous presentations of the Dharma was given to the elder monk, Nathan Kunggawo.

Ananda. Ananda. Based on some conversations, Dharm Leng, okay, that took place between the Bodhisattva Chöpak, okay, and Dr. Ngu. So, Dr. Ngu is the hero of the 8,000 verses on the Perfection of Wisdom. He's called... His name means...

Ever Weeping. Yeah, Sadāprarudita. He's always crying.

Why is he crying? Because he can't sell his flesh. Yeah, good.

He went to the market to sell his body so he could buy flowers for his teacher, and the demons blocked him. So, he's called Mr. Crybaby. Super cry.

All the time crying. And his teacher's name was Chöpak. So, after he does meet his teacher and his spiritual partner, by the way, those conversations are the basis of a teaching granted to Ananda.

KHA TSAL TE YONGS SU BDE PA GCIG YONGS SU BDE PA means delivered especially for somebody. Targeted. YONGS SU BDE PA Okay?

So, there's that one teaching that was targeted for Ananda based on the conversations of Mr. Crybaby with his teacher. Okay? And that's the NAM DANG GCIG, Tim.

And these are the 11 presentations. Nice. These are the 11 famous presentations.

And... And... I'm not even gonna cover that one.

Okay. So, there's the Three Doors and the 11 presentations. Okay?

And while we're mentioning them, Tim... I'm sorry, was that a question? Why?

Yeah, why are we mentioning the Three Doors and the 11 presentations? Because when we learned about Darsha Sama, it just mentions the Three Doors and the 11 presentations. And we need to know what they are for a footnote.

Yeah. The KA GCIG, the other guy who's attempting to decide how many real innovators there were in the history of Buddhism, he wants to include Dhanusha Sinha. Why?

Because he commented on the perfection of wisdom. How? He explained the Three Doors and the 11 presentations.

He organized the presentation. He didn't give those presentations, right? He just organized it into those presentations.

And that's enough to call him a... An innovator, according to the guy. Innovator, according to the other guy.

Now, our side doesn't bother to talk about that. Our side just approves Maitreya. Maitreya cannot be an innovator because innovators have to act in...

In this world. This world. Good.

And it makes sense, right? If you're gonna craft a completely new way of presenting these ancient teachings, it should be in response to a situation in your world, right? It should be for a certain audience called your world.

All right. All right. Here's the second debate.

By the way, you're on the second debate of about 2,000. Okay, so... It sounds like...

It smells like you just created a nice life tool, Geshe-la. Yeah, oh, I'm hot. I'm creating life tools.

Yeah. Okay. By the way, if you don't start creating life tools, you're not listening.

Okay. All right. Here we go.

Please read. And... Who do we got?

Bertha, are you translating? Okay, can you turn on your mic and criticize Tim? It's fun.

I do it all the time. Bertha is translating. Oh, I'm sorry.

Let's pick somebody else. Seiji, pick on this guy. Come on.

Are you testing negative yet? Are you hanging out in that? No, as it turns out, I found out that you can test positive until a month, but not be contagious.

So, there's something I didn't know. I think you're just watching a lot of Netflix. Okay, here we go.

Go ahead, Tim. Go ahead, Seiji. All right.

GA CHEK NUR RE GYIN SONG PO'I TSE TSUN DANG NON TE ZHING DE RO SONG CHE DANG SONG CHE SONG CHE SONG CHE SONG CHE SONG CHE DANG SANG SANGS RGYAS BAG PA'I SHI DUN YIN ZER NA Yeah, what does shi tunpa mean, you Kramer and Nick and you guys? Shi tunpa. It means in accord to people.

Yeah, it's one thing which is two other things, okay? One thing which combines two other things. What are the two things, Tim?

He's referring to Maitreya and he says he's a combination of two things. What are they? He's a combination of an innovator and an Arya Buddha.

Yeah, I like to translate Sangye Parkpa as an Arya who is enlightened. Sorry. A realized being who is also enlightened.

I think it's much, much clearer. A realized being who is also enlightened. Realized because he or she...

Tonglam, saw emptiness directly. Saw emptiness directly and then enlightened because he or she sees all existing things. This guy claims that Maitreya is both a Buddha and an innovator.

Here's our sarcastic reply. All right. Good.

Good. Good. Good.

Good. Which one is it? Good, right?

Good. By the way, because it's a D you have to cut it short. Good.

Good. Good. Good.

Yeah, this should be tepe chair. These really obvious ones I'm going to fix. Okay.

Oh, Darren. That's kind of messy. I shouldn't do that, right?

Choa. Well then, if somebody is a... $100 for a tseme kyi bu.

What happened to those $20? A person who doesn't lie. I think it was Dr. Kramer started the...

[Speaker 2]
One who has become correct.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and basically means a person who cannot lie. And we learned it somewhere in the ACI courses. ACI 4.

Yeah, a person of complete tsema. A person of complete pramana. A person who cannot lie.

So what's it say, Tim? If somebody is a tseme kyi bu, are you saying they have to be a shingde sulje? Yeah, are you saying they have to be an innovator?

Yeah, if someone is a person who cannot lie, are you saying they have to be an innovator? And then the guy says, Choo-choo. Why do you ask me this question?

Why do you accuse me of that? Well, kyu kyi gang chak tepay chir. Because your position is correct.

What was his position? Maitreya is a combination of... Of both being a realized being who is also enlightened, and an innovator.

Yeah, good. So I guess everybody who's enlightened is an innovator, right? And the guy says, well, why do you say that?

Because of what you just said. Then he says, okay, okay, okay. tseme kyi bu yin na, shingde sulje yin gobar du.

I agree that if a person is a person who cannot lie, they are always an innovator. Okay. Then we say, oh, dunna.

Go ahead, Tim. Dunna. Dunpa shakya thupa churchen.

I don't know what... I mean, I know the words, but is that up or down in this case? Is this a...

Down, right? Because he's being sarcastic. Yeah, dad tau.

Yeah, good, good, Nick. You're right. By the way, this is a misspelling.

Okay. By the way, this was the first text ever input, I think, in 35 years. This was the most important thing I could think to input.

So there were mistakes because they didn't know how to type yet. If you agree, dunpa shakya thupa churchen. What's that mean, Tim?

Let's take the Buddha, the realized one. Yeah, let's take Shakyamuni, our Buddha. Dad tau.

Are you telling me he's a... Are you telling me he's an innovator? Yeah, because he is a seme khebu.

Because he is a seme khebu, yeah. Yeah, he is a person who cannot lie. Are you saying he's an innovator?

Okay. That's like calling Henry Ford the guy who improved the car. You see what I mean?

[Speaker 2]
It's true.

[Speaker 1]
Assuming you believe the American story that he invented the car. Exactly. Because every country has their own version.

A quick question, Geshe-la. So in translating that line, there's not all the words. Obviously, not everything is there.

I mean, you have to know, you have to refer back to the previous lines. So when we're translating, we're going to put them all in there. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
And you can also check out Emptiness Meditations. It has a ton of debates in it. And you can see what we do.

Adam's first book, which is going to be available very soon.

[Speaker 1]
It's all debate. Okay. And then usually, because this is a conversation, we inset it.

Okay. So this is the format that you're going to follow forever, Tim. Okay.

So basically when it says, because it just says dertao, right? So we need to add in all that other stuff as well so it's easier to read here. I think it's more responsible as a translator.

Otherwise, people are going to have a lot of trouble understanding it. Right, because you're asking them to do the work. Yeah, yeah.

And I strongly feel that we should do the work for the reader. Okay. So there it is.

Cool. Thank you. Okay.

And then you can use that pattern forever, for 20, 30 years. Okay. We got time, right?

Four minutes. Yay! Pleased to read.

And who wants to check you? Alex? Sorry, did you do anything?

I forgot.

[Speaker 2]
No, I want to.

[Speaker 1]
Let's go. Let's go. Duna.

Okay, you read, Tim. Duna. YIN PA.

Down or up? Made your choice, man. I did.

I went down. Good, okay. I like it.

I like it. YIN PA DA. Are you saying...

Are you saying that... DE BZHIN TE GSUM BYED YIN PA'I PHYIR? Okay.

If you agree... What was the agree? If you agree that he was an innovator, okay?

If you agree that Buddha was an innovator, then are you saying that Shakyatupa was a SHING DE GSUM BYED for Shakyatupa's teachings? Are you saying that he was an innovator? Are you saying that Shakyamuni Buddha was an innovator for his own teachings?

Yeah, are you saying that Lord Buddha finally figured out a fresh way of presenting Lord Buddha's teachings?

[Speaker 2]
Actually, he did many times.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I was going to say. First turning, second turning, third turning. Yeah, but you get the point.

Because he's an innovator. You say he's an innovator. And now here's the punchline.

Please, Alex, you're still checking. DUS MI NUS TE DE'I DE'I BSTEN PA'I DAG PO YIN PA'I PHYIR YIN PA'I PHYIR What's it mean, you guys? 20 bucks, I guess.

You can't agree to that because he was the first one who taught those.

[Speaker 2]
He's the big dude.

[Speaker 1]
The boss of the teaching. Yeah, I'll give it to the Amalie College Fund. Okay, 20 bucks.

DUS MI NUS TE Yeah, you cannot say that he found a fresh way to present somebody else's teachings because he was the guy who started those teachings. All right, cool. All right.

That's kind of a definition though, right? Yeah, it's kind of the definition of a non-Shinte subject. Or one of the problems.

Okay, so we got two problems so far. If you're not doing your shtick on this planet, you don't get to be an innovator on this planet. And if you started the teachings on this planet, you don't get to be called the person who improved on them or who found a fresh way of presenting them.

Okay, got it?

[Speaker 2]
So we have to revise our list of elements of an innovator because it doesn't include improving on someone else's thought.

[Speaker 1]
When you say... ,'JIG RTEN DIR, ,'JIG RTEN DIR, ,'DOD DU RANG RNGON DU BRAL BAR TSE PA BRAL BAR TSE That's the key word, okay? BRAL BAR TSE An innovator should be BRAL BAR.

They should be commenting on someone else.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, great. Thank you very much.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, cool. We're out of time, Geshe-la. Yay!

I get to take a nap or plant my wife's plants. I wonder which one I'm going to do. Don't diamond deal yourself.

[Speaker 2]
We don't. You're going to help your wife.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I know, it's the Vajayogini thing. I've got to do it. 519.

Okay, 519. Okay, cool, you guys. Thank you, Geshe-la.

See you this evening. Can I make a quick announcement, everybody? Geshe-la, hang on for a sec, too, please, if you can.

We had a request to move some things around on the schedule. It would mean that at 530 today, it will mean that at 530 today, we'll have Stanley's Q&A rather than Gibson's class. And then those Q&As are going to be at 530 p.m. next week as well. So just keep an eye on the schedule, everybody. And then Gibson will go tomorrow. Okay.

You'll have that businessman meeting, yeah, today. Well, Nick, you got it written wrong in the schedule.

[Speaker 2]
Let me check.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I noticed that, too, Geshe-la. I'll fix it. Yeah, it should say 530 to 625 for Stanley.

Oh, yeah, yeah. I just started changing it, actually. Okay, good.

Get there and finish changing it. Okay, I'm on it, Nick, and I will go to the correct link. Yeah, let's see.

Yeah, I see I have the times in there wrong. Cool. Okay, that's the main thing.

Oh, also, there's yoga now with Mr. Alex Revis, the great innovator. And then at 4, there will be yoga with Andreana. So either way, you're going to get a great class or come to both.

Thank you so much, Geshe-la. Thanks, everybody. Thank you, guys.

Thank you. Thank you, translators. Thank you, Pachi and Francisco.

Thank you. Nice job, Allison. Yay.

See you guys later. Have a great break.