Тим Ловенхопт — Книга 1: Совершенство мудрости, занятие 7

[Speaker 2]
Your favorite kind of tea, Tim?

[Speaker 1]
Depends on the time of day.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, I see.

[Speaker 1]
Currently, it's Earl Grey Hot.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, I am also a fan.

[Speaker 1]
I kind of picked up the habit from John Le Precart, as you could probably have guessed.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, no, I would never have guessed that, actually.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, well, all right, well. That's amazing. I would never have done that.

Yes. My favorite childhood and adult television character.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, well, I'm so old, I was off doing other things, like drinking Earl Grey.

[Speaker 1]
But the evenings are caffeine-free. Yeah. But I got this new little, got this new pot, teapot.

[Speaker 2]
I saw that, it's beautiful. Have you tried rooibos?

[Speaker 1]
I do, I do like rooibos tea, yes.

[Speaker 2]
I need to find a good one.

[Speaker 1]
There's a great shop up in Flagstaff, in downtown, if you want. Oh. I go up there not often, but when I need to refill tea and do other errands, I could pick up some and see if you like it.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you, we'll talk.

[Speaker 1]
Sure. All right, we're going to go to the rules some more, and I'll just take a few minutes. Here we go.

Yeah, so here's a list of things grandpa is looking for when I check your translations. You know, you got, if somebody's quoted, it's the mixed nuts standard that we go find it, okay? And that's just our standard.

We do not quote somebody in a book and then don't give the reader where to go find it, okay? And that's not, I mean it's partly to impress the reader, but also if there's a quotation in your book and you don't go look it up and read it, you won't understand it completely when it's used in your book, okay? So you have to get to the level, your reading ability has to get to the level where you can go find a quotation and you can read it quickly to appreciate why your author put it in his book or her book, okay?

And I made up a new word here, I know it's not a word because there's a red line under it. Bibliographicalize means we want to know accurately where is the quotation so somebody can go find it, okay? And we want to know what page it's on, okay?

In the standard kangyur and tengur that we're using, okay? I put this in a different font because it's really, really important. Every fact is given in a mixed nuts book must be checked and proven to the reader.

And I invented this word called dharma rumor. Dharma rumor means somebody got a wrong idea, somebody else learned it from them, five people learned it from them, ten people learned it from them, and now it's on the internet. Like Wikipedia is pretty much dharma rumors, you know?

It's rarely accurate in Buddhism. In fact, it's incredibly inaccurate. It's unbelievably inaccurate.

So, I really, really don't encourage you to use the internet. When does grandpa use the internet? I mean, if they're giving some Hindu god's story about how he churned the ocean with a stick, then I'll go find it somewhere if it's not in the database, you know?

Or the name for a mountain, like Ben Kramer had some mountain in central India 2,000 years ago, then I'll use the internet. But don't use the internet for information on these texts. It's always wrong, okay?

It's almost always wrong. And it's very confusing. If you start quoting those things, and they're wrong, it just confuses everybody for days and days, okay?

The biggest thing here is our database, our core database. Each book of 10,000 books was chosen carefully, very, very carefully. Each book in the core database of ALL, 3,700 books in the Tengyur, 990 books in the Kangyur, and then about, right now, a couple, you know, 10,000 active books from Tibet.

They are classics, and they are correct. And you guys have never seen how much crap is out there, because I protected you from it, okay? For every accurate book, there's 10 terrible books, and they are all over the place.

They are incredibly confused. So, you know, you got to promise me that you won't corrupt the database. If I go to Nirvana, I will be rolling in my grave if you put one of those books in the database, okay?

They are confused. They don't know what they're talking about, and you've never seen those books, but there are thousands of them, and they're just ridiculous if you know the tradition, okay? All right, and most translations, 99% of all translations, don't trust other translations that you see.

Go use the database. Go back to the real classics, and check your information, okay? Don't trust other people's translations, okay?

All right, um, and by the way, a bad translation infects your mind subtly, okay? Like, even if they miss... even if they're reporting...

one of my favorites is, when they report the Gakja, when they talk about something that's not even there, they make it sound like it is there if they don't understand the topic, okay? And it's just in the language they use. You know, instead of saying the Gakja is a husband who could come from his own side, they say the Gakja is the husband who does come from his own side, and that means they don't understand the Gakja, okay?

If they say the husband who comes from his own side is the Gakja, instead of saying a husband who could come from his own side is the Gakja, then they don't understand the Gakja. If they really understood the Gakja, they would say, which could, or which was possible, in the theoretical, because it's not possible. If they don't use that language, they don't understand the Gakja.

And when you read those books, they infect your mind. They infect your understanding of the Gakja. So, I rarely read translations that are not up to that standard, okay?

All right, people give them to me. I call them, I call it toss them at the customs, okay? It means people usually give me books before I leave their country, and I take the book and I throw it in the garbage after I go through passport control, so that I don't upset them, you know?

I just toss it away. All right, I'm going to stop there, and we'll come back to these guidelines this evening, Tim, and we're going to go to your homework, yay, which is dungwa nyongwa, nyamsang nyongwa.

[Speaker 2]
Experience of getting beaten by a stick.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, experience of pain. Homeworks are usually painful. I've only given two homeworks, so you guys, is it that bad already?

No, I mean, all homeworks are dungwa. All right, well, I'll be painless, I hope. All right, here we go.

Yeah, that's the best part. After making praises to Hari Bajar Kedjar Tempadarge, then praises the speakers of two voices, the translators, then there is not an explanation of why he's doing it. He just moves on to the next verse.

So my question is, why does the praise of the translators come at this moment of the text? What is assumed that we, the readers, should already know, and maybe what should our footnotes say?

[Speaker 2]
A lot of questions in there. It just takes a minute to let it soak in.

[Speaker 1]
Right, so he's making praises to the translators, and then he just moves on. My question was, who are the translators, and why did that come after the praise to Hari Bajar? You mean, he's assuming that the readers know that the commentaries were written in Sanskrit rather than in Tibetan?

That's what my assumption is, yes. And so who are the translators that he's referring to? I forget their names.

Well, as far as the lineage goes, that's the order, right? If not from Hari Bajar to the translators, it wouldn't have made it to him in the first place, right? Right, right, right.

I'm just wondering, do we know who those translators are? I mean, around 1000 AD, there was groups of them. I don't know who did Parchin, but we could probably find out.

Yeah, the translators are always listed in the catalog. Yeah. And there were groups of translators, there were guys, it's just like the mixed nuts, there were guys who specialized in translating, you know, lower middle way, there was guys who specialized in translating line only like that.

Yeah. He was like, took by Draper or something, the mixed noodles. Mixed churro combo.

[Speaker 2]
Can we can we assume that Kedrup Tempadarge didn't know Sanskrit because of that, like, if he will know Sanskrit, he will not use the translation and he will go directly into the Sanskrit text or is not the case?

[Speaker 1]
Well, he's writing about 100 years after Tsongkhapa. And because Bhutan Rinpoche did such a good job standardizing the Kangyur and Tengyur, the Sanskrit versions were quickly lost. So I wouldn't, I think it's true, Hasso, that he probably didn't know Sanskrit.

Yeah. Yeah. By the way, Tim Kedrup in mixed nuts standard for second column is no age.

Okay. In this in the Tibetan, but not the Sanskrit. So, okay.

Sanskrit third column is age. Tibetan second column is no age. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
And in the mixed nuts standard, whenever the Sanskrit is available, you kind of prioritize the Sanskrit or both equally Sanskrit and Tibetan are coming the same?

[Speaker 1]
Well, I'll tell you something, Hasso, that's, I'll tell you something that's very deep. Okay. The Tibetan translator, the system of having two pandits from India on every book was so powerful.

You see, decisions had to be made, which of several words to choose for each Sanskrit word. So each Sanskrit word might have had two or three choices in Tibetan. And the choice of which word to use makes your work a hundred times easier if you read the Tibetan.

If you study the classic books from the Tibetan, your understanding them is about a thousand times more easy, because those decisions were made when the book was living book. So, you know, sometimes like with the explanation of devas are called devas because they live in namkara, which in Sanskrit is devas are called devas because they live in the du. So there's rare places where if you had the Sanskrit, it would be more clear.

But mostly your work is going to be more accurate if you have the Tibetan as your primary language and the Sanskrit as a backup. Yeah, so I don't have an answer to who the translators are. I was wondering, you know, I can show you how to find it.

Yeah, great. So you're going to have to find the translator of the Abhisamvankara and the translator of Haribhadra's two commentaries. It's in the native catalog to the Tengyur Geshe-la.

Yeah. And I'm going to talk about those catalogs today, actually. Awesome.

All right, cool. We talked about it. All right.

So in the verse after this, here's our Alex Trebek question. In the following verse, praising the translator in the verse, I'm sorry, I have bad English. In the verse following that, the next verse after that one, praising the translators, this person's name is hidden in a text.

Can we answer that in the form of a proper question? Where are Jason Kappa? And there's several beautiful words that describe him.

Cooling. Cooling, yes. Cooling rays of the moon.

Yeah. Like the shadow of an elephant. Indeed.

And then Yukar Gyal. The king of the stars. King of the stars.

All right, cool. Oh, it sounds like Brad Pitt. Not anymore.

Okay. So even though we heard the next verse, if you were thinking like a translator, who do you believe Kejo Tempadage would be praising after Jason Kappa? Ooh.

And then how does he describe them poetically without mentioning their names? Sarah Judson, Chucky Gilson. Nope.

Lola Tisha? Nope. We already, nope.

Only in, only in Gibson's text. Okay. So think of a, think of a lineage.

So Jason Kappa. It's Kedipje and Gilsipje. Correct.

And then how does, in the Tibetan, how does he describe them if anyone remembers? Sankipuanyi. Oh yeah, the two great, the prince heirs.

The six sons were like princes. Yeah, yeah. All right, cool.

All right. I have lost my mouse. Where did it go?

Okay. Good job, guys. All right.

Here's my attempt at the next verse, Geshe-la. Yay! Wow, okay.

That was a lot of work. I don't know how you do all this work. You don't sleep much, I guess.

Or else your cats do it at night.

[Speaker 2]
He's young still.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Enjoy it while it's there. Okay.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay, good. Okay, that's okay. Yeah, not bad.

Yeah, good. Okay, I'll buy it. How about Zay here?

I thought that was excellent. That's why before that was excellent. Oh, excellent.

Okay, good. Okay, good. Yeah, usually it means beautiful, physically beautiful.

So in this way, maybe not necessarily in the way we're talking about the beautiful garland, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it is modifying the garland.

Yeah. Good. Hold on a minute.

Yeah, okay. Nice. I like the poetic use of pen.

Yeah. This third line, he's explaining his motivation. And it's khenpa kyunwa, which is common at this point.

What's that mean, word, khenpa kyun? To show humility or to diminish his own arrogance, literally. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. And what's kunlong is kunlong. Okay, kunlong.

Motivation? Yeah, my motivation for writing this commentary is not personal. I just want to penpa the sangye kyi tenpa.

I just think about the benefits of the teaching, or something like that. No, I want to help the teachings spread. You see, the penpa tenpa means it's not my motivation to aggrandize myself.

My motivation is just to benefit the teachings, meaning to help them spread in Tibet, or something like that. So, that's the thoughts I have in my mind. And that's what's motivating me.

And then the ja, the ja, Tim, is sompar dam chawa. Sompar dam chawa. Oh yeah, I promise.

Good, I promise. Yeah, you translated it as, I promise. And that's perfect.

Yeah. What's it mean? I will either finish this or...

Or I shall die. Or I will die. Whichever comes first.

Only those two options. Quitting is not an option. Okay, good.

Good, nice. And I'm sure all you translators have this same motivation. Okay.

Cool, nice job. And I really like that you made it feel like poetry. And I think that's something that all of us, sometimes when we're translating those opening verses, we don't make them pretty.

They don't feel like poetry. And they're supposed to. So, if you use some flowery English words, it's correct.

It's more correct. Yeah, okay, good. All right.

Here we go. We're going to work. Who's book is that?

Oh, that's you. Okay, sorry. Let me go find where you're starting.

I think it's here. Am I right, Tim? Yeah.

Yeah, it's the next verse. Okay, good. So, there's the verse that Tim did.

Yeah, I also made a note to myself to see if he had any particular teacher. And all I know is the tradition in the monastery. We could study his colophons.

And probably somewhere he credits his Sarah Judson. Okay, all right. Okay, Gibson, check your brother.

Check your Arizona brother. Yeah. Gibson, I found a great picture of us last time I was in Taiwan.

I'm going to send it to you. Oh. Okay.

Go ahead. Okay, this is Haribhadra's opening lines. Okay.

So, the beginning of our commentary starts with Haribhadra's own chidra. Haribhadra's own offering of praise. And this is a famous offering of praise, which we will discuss later.

And he's bowing down to what? In the first line. The perfection of wisdom.

Yeah, and there's a controversy. He raised a controversy. People said Haribhadra's bowing down to the perfection of wisdom instead of his teacher.

Or instead of the teachers of the lineage. And there was some heat generated. Why did you bow down to Bodhidharma and you didn't bow down to your teacher?

And what's ku mean? With respect. Ku is a pun, so good luck.

Ku means me. G-U-S means I. It's a synonym for nga.

But ku pa means respect. So, either it says, I bow down. Or it means I.

It either means I bow down with respect, or it means I bow down. Because of the syntax here, I would say, I. I bow down.

I bow down to the perfection of wisdom in order to cheer. Which means to give me the power. I bow down to the perfection of wisdom so that I can have the power to ye-wa the Abhisamaya Avankara.

And this ye-wa means to open up. Like go-je or go-ye means to open a door. So, I want to open for you guys.

And it also implies making divisions, right? I would like to open for you guys the Abhisamaya Avankara, which I hope will then become again for all of you. Yeah, something you can put on your neck, which traditionally means so that you can pass it on.

It's connected to your voice. You see what I mean? So, they're talking about a necklace, okay?

So, I want it to be a necklace for everybody, okay? And again, tsikdrtypa means Abhisamaya Avankara Kārttika. Kārttika means set in verse, okay?

Tsikdrtypa means kārttika, set in verse. So, I'm going to... I bow down to the perfection of wisdom, so that I will have the good karma to open up for you guys the...

what do you call it? The string of precious... the string of realizations, right?

So that you can all wear it on your throat. Okay? And pass it on, okay?

And pass it on, okay? Cool? And don't forget avankara means a piece of jewelry that you put on before you go to a ball.

Okay. Okay, all right. Now, we're going to discuss...

And here it is, by the way. I went and got it for you, okay? Now, Haribhadra wrote two commentaries to Maitreya and Asanga's Jewel of Realizations.

And there's a longer one, and there's a shorter one. The shorter one... And both names have to do with light, so sometimes people get them confused, okay?

But we're studying... The technical name of his shorter commentary is just the commentary, vṛtti, okay? Unfortunately, okay?

And... Here's the... here's the...

So the commentary of the two, which is most used in your book, is going to be the shorter one, okay? The shorter one. It's more famous, okay?

And here's the... Here's the text inside of Haribhadra's... And Ayesha Nguyen is working with our Sanskrit master, David Riegel, to get you the best Sanskrit versions of these books, okay?

And... She's working on it very hard. All right.

Okay, please read this line, and who can I pick on? See? Ohasso!

Come on, man. Give him some trouble. X̱'éip'éi yápsú ḻ'op̱'n seng'éi sángk'u.

Drelpa sép'éi tóx'mar súnmám drébu shíkshín súnmá. Tílchak sép'alá g̱'up'pá yote. Okay.

Okay, cool. So Tim, start with g̱'up'pá yote. Third line.

There's a purpose. Yeah, there's a compelling reason, okay? There's a compelling reason why ḻ'op'n seng'éi sángk'u.

Why Haribhadra? At the tóx'mar of his drelpa... At the tóx'mar?

I don't know what that means. Beginning, okay? At the very beginning of his commentary, there's a compelling reason why he tóx'mar and chak tselwa to the three forms of the perfection of wisdom.

Why he praised and bowed down to the... Good. Why he praised and bowed down to the perfection of wisdom in its three classic forms, which is shung shé chen, lam shé chen, and drébu shé chen.

These are the three classic forms of the perfection of wisdom. What's the shung, you guys? Shung.

Main book. The highway. Yeah, the classics, okay?

So the perfection of wisdom in the form of the great sutras, the 8,000 verses, the 10,000 verses, the 25,000 verses, the 100,000 verses. So that's the first form that the perfection of wisdom takes, is books. Books or teachings.

What's the second form, Tim? Lam. The path, but probably more the realizations you have from the...

Exactly, exactly. So we can say the direct perception of emptiness. He's bowing down to the real perfection of wisdom, which is the direct perception of emptiness.

So look, I'm bowing down to the books, and I'm bowing down to the experience, but I'm also bowing down to the drébu. The results of it? Yeah, which is the eighth chapter.

The dharmakaya. Good, the dharmakaya and omniscience. Yeah, okay.

So it's a very beautiful sentence that K.T. Tenpag Dage starts with. There's a compelling reason why Master Haribhadra, at the beginning of his own commentary, bows down and praises the perfection of wisdom in the form of books, in the form of seeing emptiness, and in the form of getting a Buddha body as a result. Now, it's because...

This ché means, in the last line, ché means, it's because he wants to druppa many duns. Wants to explain many things? Dun is artha, and druppa is siddha.

It's a pun here, okay? He wants to siddhartha. He wants to achieve many goals.

What kind of goals? You other nuts. Ne kap gi dun and tar tu gi dun.

What's the difference? Divisional and alternative. Yeah, short-term and long-term goals, okay?

I got... Hang on a minute, I got to close the curtain. You just sound like you're a little bit of a distance, Tennozo.

I just moved a little closer and turned up the game. Thank you. Yeah.

Okay, good. So look, there's short-term purposes, probably so he can have the good karma to finish his book, for example. And there's ultimate purposes, which he himself would like to reach enlightenment, okay?

And that's why he does this bowing down. Now, that's a controversial statement. There have been many pages written about why did he bow down to the ideas rather than his teacher?

And that's coming much later in your book. So you're not going to find out for five or ten years. Today we're going to go to a more sexy topic, okay?

Please read. And Seiji wants to check you. Ha ha ha.

The KAPSU T'ACHE LASU TAMPOLA. Good. Seiji, did you buy Maitri some jogging shoes yet?

Coming soon. Okay, so Tim, KAPSU means in this particular section, okay, in this particular section, our T'ACHE is going to have... soon.

Our debate or analysis is going to have three parts. Yeah, good. Our dialectical analysis of this topic is going to have three parts.

Find something that would fit better in the restaurant besides dialectical analysis. Yeah, you could say analysis is okay. You can say.

It sounds very hoity-toity to say dialectical analysis. I like it. Yeah, that certainly doesn't pass the waiter.

If you ask for dialectical analysis, you might get some kind of... Anyway, here we go. Your book is really starting here.

And I guess, let me see who can help you. Sugeng, this is really the start of his book. This sentence is important for the rest of Tim's life.

So, let's go. Yay. KHA' CHEK NA RE.

SHING TE, is that SO or RO? SO. SO.

SONG ZIN YEN NA SHING TE SONG BYED YIN PAS KHYAP SU SRNA. Yeah, which means if somebody is a SHING TE SONG ZIN, they have to be a SHING TE SONG BYED. Okay, if someone is a shing de sun zin, they must also be a shing de sul je.

So we just have to figure out the difference, right? You got any guesses, you guys, Kramer? A wagon holder, or maybe it's somebody who's passing on the teaching or something like that.

Great, great. And then what's the second one, Nick? An innovator.

Yeah, a wagon inventor.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
So you can already answer that. You can already figure out this debate. The other guy says anyone who passes on the tradition of a Tesla is the inventor of the Tesla.

[Speaker 2]
Geshe-la, how could you invent a thing that hasn't... how could you pass on something that hasn't been invented yet?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, right. That's a good point, okay? But he says, well, you could invent it and pass it on, right?

So Elon Musk created Tesla, and then he created a marketing division to pass it on, right? But if you're the marketing guy for Tesla, are you necessarily the inventor of the first Tesla? Wouldn't you have to be a Shintetsu Sungei and then a Shintetsu Zen?

Yeah, that's okay. That's okay. So what we're saying is anyone who markets a Tesla must have been the inventor of the Tesla.

Okay? That's the other guy's position. By the way, tell me the real story behind that is Elon Musk, you know, invest in the company of Tesla, and then later, you know, became the main person.

So it's more correct. So he's a Shintetsu Sungei, but not a Shintetsu Sungei.

[Speaker 2]
Right. He didn't find Tesla from the very beginning.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Now, Tim, I challenge you. You ready?

Ready? Here we go. If I make a ridiculous statement, like anyone who markets a new car must have invented the new car, then what's your first job?

To answer me. I would say the same thing Stanley said, that you don't necessarily have to be the inventor to be able to spread it on. Yeah.

But in the debate tradition of Buddhism, you have to come back with a... Sarcastic statement. I guess no one has ever...

No, you gotta come back with a counterexample. You gotta come back with a counterexample of somebody who is a blank, but not a blank. Someone who's a marketer, who's not an inventor.

Good. Good. Good.

And here we go. Here's our answer. Here's Ketut Devadangi.

And John Campbell's checking in. Come on, Professor Campbell. Don't forget to turn your microphone on.

Lopan Sengei sang for Cho Chan. Cho Chan. You gotta make it sarcastic.

Cho Chan. Shingtai Sochei Yenpa Sarcastic is down. Yeah, sarcastic is down.

I believe it is up. Shingtai Sochei Yenpa Tao. Yenpa Tao.

Soshen Yenpeche. Okay, what's it say? Consider Haribhadra.

Yeah, excuse me, Lopan. Consider Master Haribhadra. Yeah.

Yeah, hold on, let's see here. So that was the- Are you telling me he's a- Are you telling me he's the inventor? Good.

Well, and then there's an understood chichir after that, understood. The other guy says chichir. Why would you say that?

Yeah, why would you say, oh, is Haribhadra, Master Haribhadra, oh, I guess he's an inventor, right? And then the other guy says, well, why do you say that? And we say- Because he's the marketer.

Yeah, because he's the marketer. And you said, what's the understood, what's understood? You said- You said if you were the- Marketer.

You were also the inventor as well. Good, good, good, good. Okay, good.

Yeah, I like this language, marketer and inventor. This is good. All right.

Keep going and Dr. Campbell's going to check you. So in this structure, so the next person talking is the kachig? The next person, if the next thing is a tel, it's us talking and saying something we do believe, which means we have to go up or down?

We have to go up. Yeah, here we go. Der ta.

Good, der ta. nun tok yen gyi gongpa chin chin chi ma lokpar drawa chepay ten che songpa po'i po'i Po'i? Po'i.

seme kye po'i yinpe'echer All right, now I'm going to, I'm just going to improve your, what do you call that, delivery? Yinpe'echer. Okay, yinpe'echer.

Okay, so then what's understood for $50?

[Speaker 2]
Thamudru.

[Speaker 1]
God dang, who was that? Thamudru. Was it Ben?

Yes, sir. $50 to the Ezra, I mean scholarship fund. Okay, good.

Yeah, which means what, Dr. Kramer?

[Speaker 2]
It means, the other guy said, That guy's not a barber.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I don't agree that that Master Haribhadra was a marketer. Okay, I don't agree. And we say, Dare tell, Tim?

Dare tell? Oh, certainly he was. Oh, he sure was a marketer.

And then we go to the end of the sentence. Because he was a seme kye po'i. Because he was a, I don't know, person who turned correct.

Yeah, he's a person of total accuracy who was a tson pa po'i of attention. An author of an authoritative text. Yeah, he was the author of a classical commentary, shastra.

Okay, shastra. Which delpas. Which delpas.

Deliberates the meaning. Yeah, which comments upon. Thamudru gen, Tim?

That's my own car. Good. And explains its gongpa, chen ji ma lo pa.

Perfectly. Unmistakenly, yeah. What's gongpa?

The true meaning. Yeah, the true meaning, okay. He certainly is a marketer because he's a person of total accuracy who composed a classical commentary which comments about the real meaning of the jewel of realizations in an unerring way.

Okay, cool. All right. Alex Rivas.

Please criticize Tim. Yay. Don't forget to turn on your microphone, Alex.

Sorry. Okay. Don't know.

Shinta sulche shenki jesu ma drangvar. Don't rangvang dundravar chepay semay kebu yin. I'm trying to, I have no idea.

Who's speaking now? It's sarcastic. Okay.

It's us talking and it's sarcastic. And how do we know it's us? You just know.

You just know, okay. Sarcastic goes up or down? Down.

Yeah, sarcastic goes down. Yinpa ta. Shinta sulche yinpe jir.

Yinpe jir. Good, good. Duh-duh-duh means if he had answered duh back here in the second line, we said, yinpa ta, are you telling me he's the inventor?

And the guy started by saying, no, he's not. And then now he said, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what, I changed my mind. He was an inventor.

He was an inventor. And then we say down here. He'll get used to this, Tim.

It's always the same. It's always the same. So if you had said duh back at the first tell, it means, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, he was an inventor. He was an inventor. I agree.

I agree. Marketer, I think. Yeah, passing on the teachings.

Yeah. A marketer, right? Nope.

No, we're agreeing that he was an inventor. The other guy changed his mind and said he's an inventor.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, but the other guy was originally complaining about that. Yeah, about him being a holder, right? We said our cheer was...

[Speaker 1]
Oh, we finished that part. We finished that part. Yeah.

We established that he's a marketer. Now the guy goes back and says, yes, he was an inventor. Oh, OK.

If he's an inventor, then he must fit the definition of an inventor. And Ketub Denpa Darghe has set up an artificial way to give us the definition of an inventor, which is the whole point of the book so far. So Tim, this paragraph here is much of the classical definition of a true innovator.

And again, I got to say it again, that this is an important part of the DCI program on innovation. We are using this section of Ketub Denpa Darghe to write a whole manual for... For...

It was, I think, I don't know, 9,000 people studied innovation by using these sections. So we're using these sections for real, worldly stuff, OK? Real life stuff.

OK, here it goes. Here's the definition. So are you saying he's a semekibu?

Are you saying he's completely correct? Yeah, OK. I can say that.

The other guy said, yeah, I could say that. Did he make a jelpa? Did he make a commentary?

Good. Did he make a commentary rang wang du? Rang wang du.

It explains the meaning. All by his lonesome. Yeah, all by himself.

He didn't use anybody else's work, OK? Did he comment on Maitreya's work and Asanga's work without relying on anybody else, OK? Dodon.

Dodon here means the meaning of the perfection of wisdom, OK? And did he not drang wang somebody else? He got a follow-after.

Yeah, is it true that he commented on the meaning of the perfection of wisdom all on his own without following anyone else, OK? What anyone else? Without following any other inventor.

SHING DE'I GSUL BYED OK, BYED means open. GSUL means new system, OK? So GSUL BYED means open a new system.

Oh, so he's an inventor, is he? Yes. Oh, so I guess he's a totally accurate person.

Yes. I guess he wrote a commentary. Yes.

I guess he was explaining the perfection of wisdom. Yes. And I guess he did it all on his own without following anybody else who ever explained the perfection of wisdom.

Now the other guy's in trouble, right Tim? OK? OK, all right, here we go.

Then he says, yeah, yeah, you could say that's Haribhadra. You could say he didn't follow anybody else. And then we say, Alex, make him suffer one more time.

Yeah. You cannot agree that he did his commentary on the Perfection of Wisdom Sutras on his own without following anyone else's lead. OK?

Because he followed the lead of Gumbo Lodro. Sorry, of Nagarjuna, of Master Nagarjuna. Yeah, Arya Nagarjuna, our savior, OK?

He followed the lead of Arya Nagarjuna. Now I admit he did it Rangwondo. I admit he wrote his commentary on his own.

But I don't agree that he didn't follow anyone else's lead. He followed Nagarjuna's lead. Arya Nagarjuna's lead.

OK? And I agree that he's a seme kyibu. I agree he's an author of total accuracy.

And I agree that he was making his commentary through his own efforts. But I don't agree he didn't follow anybody else. Because he did follow Arya Nagarjuna, who is himself a great inventor.

Tim, why do you think Kedrub Denpa Dargye made this the first debate of a 60-year book? There's a clue in the English. I'm not sure.

[Speaker 2]
He's showing a strong connection with Arya Nagarjuna.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, well, don't forget that Tim's book is lower middle way. But Kedrub Denpa Dargye wants to say, look, we're using sources which are actually higher middle way. OK.

We're going to base our commentary on a commentary by a real... Innovator. Prasangika, OK?

Oh, Prasangika. By a real Nagarjunian thinker. OK, got it?

So we learned two things. We learned that Haribhadra is second generation. And we learned that he's higher middle way.

And by the way, you guys have the honor of being first generation translators. And you don't know how cool that is. To be the first generation translators is really sexy.

Your students won't have as much fun as we're having. OK, all right. OK, I think we're over time.

We have to go to the... That's two minutes over time. Nicholas, any comments?

Worth it. Thank you. Thank you for including these two new texts.

This has been really fun this term. And it's exciting to start something fresh. Brings us back to five years ago.

Yeah, what's happening next, Uncle Tim? Uncle Nick, sorry. In two minutes, according to the schedule, you're going to give a Q&A.

So I mean, we can take however long of a break you want. And whenever you're ready.