Сугэн Ши — Книга 2: Колесо жизни (первый принцип и подразделения зависимости), занятие 50

[Speaker 2]
The East. How is everyone. Maybe people are still sleeping.

[Speaker 1]
So, let's start the Q&A session. Do we have any questions from discussion? Hi.

[Speaker 2]
Hi everyone. Oops.

[Speaker 1]
I saw something. If we have established before that our seeds create everything that is in place for us to come and look at a pen and see it. Why is it wrong to believe that a pen Why is it wrong to believe that a pen will still be there even if we die today.

If we have established before, if we have established that our seeds create everything for us to see for example a pen. Right. Why is it wrong to believe that a pen will still be there even if you die today.

I think this question answers itself already. You see. If our seeds create everything including the pen for us to see, if we die, if we die, there is no more seeds for us to see as a pen.

If we still believe that the pen is still there, then of course it's wrong, right?

[Speaker 2]
You agree with me?

[Speaker 1]
If you just read the questions, the answer is of your questions. Agree? So yeah, basically to me this is quite straightforward.

And yeah, thank you Lindsay. You can just open up your mic and say it out loud. Or you can type in the chat box.

[Speaker 2]
No Russian translation. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
So I hope Maria Nesterov, you can understand what I'm trying to say. But don't our seeds create our next life even before we get born? That's correct.

Our seeds create our next life. But in the next life, our seeds might not be projecting, might not be us projecting and letting us see the pen as the pen. It might be something else.

So if we are not there anymore, the situations might change and we might not be seeing the pen anymore and the pen might not be there anymore for us. Our seeds might not be projecting the pen for us to see. Right?

So I'll come back to that. Elmira? Oh yeah, Elmira, I received your request through Dinara, so just let me know how, what do you want me to do, right?

Whether you have a Zoom or something. So I have a practical question. Can you please tell how to use the materials of Mixed Nuts for scientific articles?

Is it possible to refer to currently unpublished texts? I would say unpublished texts are unpublished. So better not, right?

I think it's better to go through Geshe Michael and let him approve the publishing. Yeah, so that will be, I would say that will be more accurate. And then how to use the materials of Mixed Nuts?

This is where the diamond mining activities come to play. So, in fact, in SCIM we do a lot of diamond mining. We go through the text and then we we try to think of the applications in the modern world.

And those can be those can be for those can be related to science. So if you want to use them for scientific articles, I think that can be interesting, right? So you just need to present the text and try to pull some links, some correlations with science.

And I think that can be pretty exciting. Why not? I would say.

Why not try it? Yeah. You can always discuss with the translators.

For Wheel of Life, if you want to link it to science, you can always discuss with me. I will be more than happy to discuss it with you. So, yeah, that is Elmira.

[Speaker 2]
And then I saw some Chinese questions here. Let me hope there are translations.

[Speaker 1]
I don't know. It's kind of late, so my brain is lazy to think. So I will go to the English questions first.

My apologies for the Chinese people. Fai Geshe Michael said on Lam Rim that people exist after I die, but today said the pen doesn't exist after I die. No, I think the context is different, right?

The pen doesn't exist after I die, because I would say we see the pen, we can see the pen because our seeds force us to see the pen as the pen. And if I die, then there are no more seeds to force me to see the pen as the pen. I think, I don't know, I mean, I don't know why there is this question again, but isn't it obvious that our seeds are forcing us to see the pen as the pen, and if I'm not around anymore, then there are no more seeds to force me to see, or there are no more seeds and there are no more me to be forced by my seeds to see the pen as the pen.

I don't know, I mean, to me this is kind of obvious, but please correct me if I understand the questions wrongly, right? Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Does someone else see a pen after you die? I think that maybe is part of it.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, if that is a question, then I would say that we are responsible for our own seeds, so I don't think it's wise to go to other people's perspective, you know, like my favorite question is if I were to see a mother scolding the child, I mean, we shouldn't be, we should not think about what seeds, what seeds are causing the child to be scolded by the mom, or what seeds is the mom, what seeds is the mom planting at that moment by scolding the child? Instead we should ask what seeds do we have to see the mom scold the child?

You see, so instead of putting the perspective on others, I think we should always turn back the camera towards ourselves, right? And if we understand, if we have this habit, I think it's much easier to understand the whole concept. And I think the beauty of what we are learning here, at least for the higher middle way, is to turn the camera onto ourselves and look at things from our perspective, right?

Thank you, Lindsay, for helping to clarify.

[Speaker 3]
Hello, that was my question. No, actually it was another part of the question. So when we die and we stop seeing the pen as our projection, we don't have seeds for pens.

And when I asked Geshe Michael during the Lam Rim, like do people continue existing when we die? So for example, I can have no seeds for people that I saw during this life. So do they continue to live or no?

So in that case, Geshe Michael answered that people, yes, they continue to live. But I don't understand how do they continue to live if, for example, I stop having seeds for them? That was the question.

Because today if I stop having seeds for pen or pens, I don't see them. So as I understand, pens don't exist.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you. Okay, yeah. That's a good question.

In the first place, let's not let's not bring the pen, let's put the pen aside, okay? Because I would say that if I am alive now and I see the pen as the pen, when I die, you know, when I die, I'm not here anymore. I'm not here anymore and my pen or my seeds might not project this pen to me to see this as a pen anymore, right?

It depends on which realm I'm going into and it depends on what I will become. So the reason why Geshe Michael says that life this, the life continues, it just means that our seeds will bring us into the next being, right? The next being, of course through either through Pado or directly to that realm.

So and then if we, if you if you use the four flowers, right? The four flowers, the seeds, the four ways seeds open, the fourth flower talk about the future. The fourth flower talk about the future.

That means at the moment of death, all the seeds will ripen up together, creating major transition. It's like us opening a door. So we open the door to our next realm, our next destination and when we open the door all the seeds ripening at the same time will create that world for me to walk into, right?

So when I open the door, what I will see depends on the collection of all the seeds that ripen up at that moment. And if I have good seeds, of course, it will be a beautiful world. If I have more bad seeds, it would be a terrible world.

So when I walk into that world, then it depends on the nature of the world and maybe in that world, maybe in that world, the pen is not a pen anymore. Maybe the pen would be a chew toy for me in that world. So yes, I can say that we still exist after death, just that it's another world.

But I might not have the same seeds to see the pen as a pen. So yeah, that's why I can say that the pen might not exist anymore. The pen might become a chew toy or the pen might become something else, depending on the world that I walk into.

But yes, I will still exist for the fact that I will walk into another world based on the collection of seeds that I have that ripen at that last moment.

[Speaker 3]
Thank you, but the part was about the people that I see now. Do they continue existing or no?

[Speaker 1]
The people that I see now? The people that I see now? When I die, will they see the pen?

Is that a question?

[Speaker 3]
No, no, no. When I die, do the people that I see now, they continue their lives until they, for example, die or no? That was the part, because considering pen, pen stops and we move on to another life.

So I move to another realm and I see another creature, for example. What about the creatures that I see now? Yeah, yeah, that was the part.

Thank you. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Again, I like to use the similar concept, right? So turn the camera on myself. Today when I'm alive, I see people around me.

Today when I'm alive, I see 134 of you here. I see Olha, I see Marina, I see a lot of other people, right? Now when I die, when I die, I will not see all of you anymore, right?

And depending on the realm I go into, I may not see all of you as I may not see all of you as what I'm seeing you now. So that is from your individual perspective, you will still continue, you will still continue. I cannot say that you have the same seeds as me, own seeds, and you will still continue, you will still exist according.

If I were to put the camera on me, when I die, I will not see all of you anymore. From my perspective, I can just say I don't know what will happen to all of you. I can only say I don't know what will happen to all of you because I don't know what seeds you have.

So from my perspective, all of you will stop to exist from my perspective. But of course, every one of us has our own seeds. So for example, I'm looking at Isabel.

Isabel has her own seeds. So perhaps Isabel has the seeds to continue to exist. Perhaps Isabel will have different seeds.

Maybe she will become enlightened. So we don't know. But I would say that we should turn the camera to us and see from our perspective.

But I would like to believe that all of you will still continue to exist even if I die. But the better answer should be I don't know. So that is my attempt to answer your question.

I mean, as much as I would like to believe that you are still around, but I can only say that I don't know. Right? Okay.

Well, I like your questions. In fact, that's interesting.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, let me continue. Thank you, Ken. ...

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[Speaker 1]
I would say the seed system ... pain and the way the pain manifests to different organs definitely definitely means that they must ...

[Speaker 2]
... Sorry, can you can you hear me?

[Speaker 1]
Okay. I don't I don't know why. I'm in Indonesia now.

I'm in a hotel, so maybe people are watching Netflix, so my network is weak. I'm sorry. Let me see.

The sound is poor. Okay, yeah. Still bad.

Okay, so I would like to say, right, I have a friend who is a doctor. He's a doctor. I would say he is a healer.

He's a healer, mixing the Western medicine and Eastern, right? And he likes to use the seed system to heal his patients. So people may come to him with a certain cancer, different cancers, and he likes to correlate this to seeds.

And he shared with me that a lot of time, the cancer, the type of cancer is related to the negative seeds of that person. So I don't really remember the correlation, but he was very firm in telling me, you know, like people come with the, I don't know, I'm just, I'm just randomly mentioned, right? For example, if the person has pain in the ass, so that person must be a pain in the ass for other persons, you know?

So, I mean, this is just a simple example. So he liked to tell me all these correlations. And, yeah, and I mean, that is just a funny example, but it's something like that.

So, yeah, if you're asking about pain, about cancer in a different part of the body, most definitely there are different seeds, otherwise there will not be different. So this is one, right? This is one explanation.

Another explanation, I remember Geshe Michael was saying about somebody who has the seeds to be born as a bear. And then when the person was about to be born, and it happens to be not the bear mating season, the seeds might be redirected to something similar. So instead of bear, I forgot Geshe Michael was saying about some other animal, some other animal.

So seeds may ripen, definitely should be on something similar, but if let's say the season is different, it might ripen not too far away from the original destination. So, yeah, so I think, yeah, I think Olha Turchin also mentioned that, you know, specific seeds, right? So, yeah, so if we were to think about it based on the law of seeds, definitely different organs, cancer on different organs should be caused by different seeds.

But talking about the bear, somebody going to be born as a bear, but not during the bear mating season, then that person would be born into something similar, something closer, not too far away. So this is what I can say. But if you want to be adventurous, you can try what my friend did.

Try to explore and see the correlation between different organs with different bad seeds. Yeah, I think there should be some relationships, right? Like when people like to say pain in the ass.

I think there are some correlations. Otherwise, we wouldn't hear such a term, right? Yeah.

Okay. Okay, so let me see. Catherine helps to translate already.

When we see a pain, does the seed open up and cover the parts of the outer thing? Or is it just a mental image opening up and there is nothing outside? I like to answer this using Geshe Michael's example of the chocolate sauce covering ice cream.

I think this is in advanced level two, I think. So seeds ripening. You can think of it like vanilla ice cream, but with chocolate covering.

So the seeds, the mental image is covering the ice cream like chocolate sauce. Yeah, so I hope this... Oh, another one.

We see a pain. Okay, Alva is also helping to translate. Yeah.

Yeah, so based on what I understand from Geshe Michael, you can just imagine like a chocolate sauce covering the whole thing. So it's not about mental image opening up and nothing outside. And one thing we need to be very, very clear, because the chocolate sauce comes from the seeds, what we see outside is real.

The pain is real because it comes from seeds, the pain is real. Okay, so I think this understanding we really need to drill it into our mind. And it doesn't mean that because it is a projection from the seeds, it is not real.

Instead, you need to tell, you need to drill it into your mind. It is real because it is projection from seeds. Yeah, if it is not projection from the seeds, it is not real.

All right. Okay, let me see the next one. So Luca is helping to translate Yingying Liu's question, right?

Yeah. In yesterday's class, Stanley mentioned that the relationship between the main consciousness and the function of consciousness is interrelated. And without the main consciousness, there is no function of consciousness, and without the rise of the function of consciousness, there is no main consciousness.

So if they are interrelated, why do they need to get to be related? Just like a shelf needs screws to be hung on the wall. Wow, this is so complicated.

If they are interrelated, why do they need to get to be related? I don't know. This sounds so complicated.

Anybody has any idea to offer? Main consciousness, function of consciousness is interrelated. I don't know.

I think this is from Abhidharma. I mean, this is Abhidharma. I'm not so familiar with Abhidharma.

Maybe you want to save these questions for Stanley? Let me check Stanley's Q&A turn.

[Speaker 2]
I don't see Stanley doing Q&A, though.

[Speaker 1]
Utpala is coming on Thursday. You can ask her. I'm sorry, I really don't understand this question.

This is Abhidharma.

[Speaker 2]
Main consciousness, function of consciousness is interrelated.

[Speaker 1]
If they are interrelated, why do they need to get to be related?

[Speaker 2]
I don't understand this.

[Speaker 1]
And it is translated as get. I don't really understand. I'm not sure.

Did he mention this? Did he use this word? What was the English word used?

Anybody remember? I don't know. It's okay.

I think if anybody remembers anything, can you please write it here? Let's move on to the next question. That we might not know.

It's hidden karma. Okay. Chloe Ma, regarding yesterday's class with Bert.

Geshe Michael made a comment on 8th level bodhisattva equals to lower level arya. Could you explain on the levels of bodhisattva? Oh, okay.

No, I know. Somebody answered that. Oh, yeah.

Irivore, right? It's not arya. It's arhat, right?

It's arhat. So yeah, Irivore has answered that. In fact, I think he mentioned 8th level, 8th bodhisattva level is arhat, right?

Rather than 7th, if I remember correctly. And this is a level of arhat. No, we don't talk about level of arhat.

We talk about level of bodhisattva. We don't talk about level of arhat. We talk about the 10 levels of bodhisattva.

And 8, 9, 10. So we call bodhisattva 8, 9, 10 as the higher bodhisattva, right? Whereas up to 7 is considered the normal bodhisattva.

And then only after the 10th level, then that person will become enlightened. So yeah, that is the bodhisattva levels. I'm not sure if we have any levels of arhat.

Anybody here can help me? I don't know. I don't think there's any level of arhat.

What I understand is levels of bodhisattva. And that is discussed by Master Asanga. Master Asanga.

Levels of bodhisattva, right? Yeah, hi.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, that was the first time I heard about levels of arhat. I think he said lower level bodhisattva. Higher level bodhisattva is lower level arhat.

So there were two levels. So I was confused.

[Speaker 1]
No, the term shouldn't be arhat, right? Arhat just means that somebody who has seen emptiness directly. And bodhisattva level 1, you achieve bodhisattva level 1 when you become an arhat.

So that is arhat. Don't get confused with arhat. Arhat is somebody who has gotten out of the wheel of life.

Who has gotten rid of the negative emotions. So that is arhat. Now, Geshe Michael was trying to say that the lower level bodhisattva, or rather he would say, I remember him saying that the 8th level bodhisattva is equivalent to the arhat.

But they are not the same. Equivalent means they are almost the same, but they are not the same. Otherwise, we wouldn't use different names.

And then the 7th level bodhisattva, 1st to 7th, they correlate very closely to the 6 perfections. So the first 6 levels are closely related to the 6 perfections. And then we have additional, some of things like, for example, we talk about the skillful means for number 7, and then number 8, number 9, number 10, there are different skills that I need to perfect.

So those are the different bodhisattva levels. But definitely arya is bodhisattva level 1. And then arhat is, yesterday it was mentioned that the bodhisattva level 8 or 7.

Like Lindsay said, let's become bodhisattva and not worry too much about arhat. How are pens created? Does it open and create a pen?

Because I share a pen with someone else. How did I, as the subject, be created? What was planted that created me?

Me as I, myself, right? Good question. How do I create myself?

Oh, I think that is, can I say that? How do I create myself? Oh, wow.

This is profound, right? Yeah, interesting questions. If you were to ask me these questions, I would say that, I would say that this question is related to how I obtained the human body.

How I obtained the human body. And if I were to use what I have learned in AHA courses, I can say that I get the human body because I've planted many good seeds in the past. I've been kind towards others.

And we also know that this human body is something very precious, something very rare, something very difficult to obtain. And this is where we talk about the leisure fortune. And yeah, I must be very kind towards others.

We talk about kindness, right? I must be very kind towards others to have this human body. So yeah, I think the seed that was planted to create myself must be kindness.

Kindness. So yeah, this is what I can say. I don't know, anybody else has other answers, please feel free to chip in, right?

And then when we see a pet, does the seed open up and cover? Oh, I think we discussed about this already, right? If I do understand the concept of the pen, but that is impermanent, does that mean that once I understood that karma creates the world and then I die, will I lose that understanding?

If I do understand the concept of the pen and it is impermanent, does that mean that once I understood that karma creates the world and then I die? Actually, I like to remind you Geshe Michael did mention, you know, he told us Mixed Nuts, hey, all of you Mixed Nuts, and all of you who are listening to Mixed Nuts, please listen and learn well what we discuss here. And he added one more piece, because when you come back, you will still be able to remember all these teachings.

Isn't that cool? He said, please listen carefully, because when you come back, you will still remember the teachings. Okay, I think that's very cool.

But of course, he mentioned that, he mentioned that in order for us to remember the teaching, we need to apply the teaching in our life. Okay, so yes, you listen carefully, you learn, but you need to apply so that when you come back, you will still remember the teaching. So yeah, we know we call it impermanent, or a better term is to say it is changing.

It is changing, right? Impermanent means it's changing. So yeah, it is changing.

So if we learn it well, we listen carefully to the explanation, and then we use it well, then we will not lose the understanding. So I think that's kind of cool, right? That's what I can say.

Okay, all right. And before we die, the result of opening our seeds will be affected by motivation or ideas. Yeah, this is what we discussed yesterday.

For example, the original seed will send me to heaven, but because of the bad motivation, I go to the animal park. So before our seeds are about to be opened, I have a good or bad idea, will it also affect the result of the seeds? Yeah, how far?

This is a good question, right? In fact, based on the discussion in the Wheel of Life, we say that there are shifting and unshifting seeds. Yeah, in fact, yesterday we discussed about this.

So what is shifting, what is unshifting? Basically, we refer to the things happening in the desire realm as shifting, good and bad, shifting. Shifting means it shifts in the different realms, in the different sub realms in the desire realm.

So that is basically the definition of shifting. Unshifting mostly refers to those happening in the form and formless realms. But I clarified this with Geshe Michael yesterday and he said, no, it can be more than desire realm.

And I just remember, okay, desire realm basically will be shifting, right? So maybe we're going into, maybe you are going to the God's realm, but suddenly you have a negative thought, you may do two into animal realm. So this is shifting, right?

Now, in the form realm, we have four levels, right? Form realm one, form realm, or we call it meditation level one, meditation level two, three, and four. The first three meditation levels are considered shifting, are considered shifting, they are considered impure.

The fourth meditation level, so each of the meditation level one, two, three, can be divided into three sub levels. So one, two, three, each of them has three sub levels. Now, meditation form level four has three plus five.

It has eight sub levels, three impure and five pure levels. So that's why some literature mentioned that in the form realm, there are 17 sub levels, okay? Some literatures mentioned that in form realms, there are 17 sub levels.

The first three has three each, nine, level four has eight, three plus five, three impure, five pure, okay, three plus five. So we can say that the three, sorry, the impure, there are nine impure levels, and sorry, there are 12 impure levels, and five pure, there are 12 impure sub levels, and five pure sub levels, okay? The impure sub levels are considered shifting.

You can go up and down, including the desire realm, but the five pure sub levels are unshifting, unshifting. Okay, but again, shifting and unshifting here refers to unshifting between levels. So although the five pure are considered unshifting, they can still shift among the five, but it cannot come down to level three or level two.

So if you're headed to level four, you are headed to level four, and if you are headed to the five sub levels of level four, you will be in level four, but you will still shift among the five. But if you are headed to level four, which is the three impure sub level in level four, you can fall down to maybe level three, level two, level one, or even desire realm, okay? So this is what we refer to as the shifting and unshifting.

So what is causing the shifting is basically our motivation, our motivation, or our fear, or our regret. You know, maybe while you are alive, you are learning from some teacher about going into different meditation level, different concentration level, and then you thought that is nirvana, you thought that is liberation, and then when you go to the powder, you realize, oh, shucks, I'm only going into meditation level three, this is not nirvana, you know? I have been cheated all my life.

You have anger, you have regret, that's when you will fall down directly to the hell's realm. So there is, so we should not have any regret whatsoever when we are in the powder, but we don't have control, okay? Our seeds will control us, including why we say when people die, don't quarrel in front of the coffin, you know?

People quarrel about the inheritance, about the money. Imagine what will happen to the deceased, you know? The person inside the coffin will be very angry.

Aye, come on, this is all my money, now you are quarreling over my money, you know? And that anger will bring down, will bring down, so yeah, okay? So yeah, this is my best attempt to explain.

I hope, Alpha, you can understand my explanation. A seed of pain, oh no, this is another one, okay? Okay, so let me go to Tim's book.

How come a pigeon that reads the scriptures and dies can be reborn as a human and will be very wise? Oh, this is not Tim, this is my book, okay? My book.

So how come a pigeon that reads the scripture and dies can be reborn as a human and will be very wise? I think all these are, I can only explain that all these must have come from our past good seeds, right? A pigeon that reads the scripture can be reborn as a human.

I would like to offer this suggestion, you know? We don't know, we only know that there is a pigeon, but we don't know what was it before, you see? The pigeon might be someone, the pigeon might be a human, but there was some issue, that person was born as a pigeon, you see?

And that pigeon was only, the life as a pigeon may be just a temporary life. Before that, the good seeds of that person will bring that person in to be reborn as a human. So we don't know, you see?

So there is always that possibility. So it might not be just the scripture alone, but it could be the past good seeds. Therefore, I always like to tell people, make full use of your time to plant good seeds.

We should always collect all the good seeds we can possibly do, because we don't know when those seeds will come, those seeds will be useful. So let's plant all the seeds we can, so that anytime we need them, we always have them ready. Don't wait until the last minute and then try to plant the seeds.

Like my mom always say, my parents always say, don't dig the well when you are thirsty, you know? Dig the well way before you feel thirsty. Okay, there's another metaphor that my mom forbid me to say, you know?

Don't dig the hole when you want to shit. It will be too late. Every time I use this example, my mom always called me, no, can you please use the other example, which is better?

I mean, in Chinese, we use this metaphor, right? Yeah, so yeah, I don't know, I don't know. I don't know what happened.

I don't know what the pigeon, what seeds the pigeon has, but maybe it already has a very good collection of seeds. But of course, if we have the chance to read scriptures, we are actually planting a lot of good seeds, right? Including, you see, sometimes when we read mantra or when we read the Buddha's name, right?

We plant a lot of good seeds, why? You see, mantra, proper mantra, a good mantra, proper mantra should be created by some saint, you know, some amazing people. So if we follow them, because they are great people, if we follow them, definitely we are planting seeds.

And especially Buddha's, when we recite Buddha's name, those are Buddha's name, those are special names. And only when we have good seeds, we will have the chance to hear about it and learn how to say the names. And of course, those are good seeds.

So just like scriptures, only when we have good seeds, then we can have access to the scriptures. And if we can also read the scriptures, definitely we are planting a lot of good seeds. So I guess this is similar kind of logic, right?

Okay, where's ice cream coming? Yeah, from your seeds. Thank you, Lindsay.

Okay, now, Olha?

[Speaker 2]
About the parts, though, like the parts are also coming from your seeds.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, yes, definitely, definitely, definitely, yeah. When we talk about the parts, it is also a concept from the independent school, right? Today, we talk about the consequence, we talk about a functionalist, we talk about an independent school here.

So yeah, the parts on the dependence actually is from the independent school.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, so let me see. Okay, how are pens created?

[Speaker 1]
No, okay, this is done. I would like to ask a question about the interest of seeds. Mr. Chan Tang said that if a person writes a great book and passes it on, even after his death, the author will continue to increase the good seed as long as people read the book afterwards. Then how is the good seeds defined? If this person regrets, is it the same as removing the good seed? And will the good seed grow when some other person reads the book again?

Okay, let's divide, let's digest this slowly, okay? So like stupa, for example, we say when we build stupa, when we contribute to the stupa, when we build stupa, because the stupa will last for hundreds of years, maybe thousands of years, anytime people see the stupa and be reminded of the teaching, the person building the stupa or contributing to the stupa will get the merits, will get the seeds, right? So this is what we all heard and I believe we all agree.

And yes, I think it's the same thing for books. If we write a good book, great books, and then even after we die, as long as people read and can apply it, we get the good seeds. Or another way, I like to say, right?

Let's say you help, you volunteer in a teaching in Lam Rim, for example. You volunteer in a Lam Rim teaching and then let's say people attending the Lam Rim get the benefit, or maybe Geshe Michael like to say, even if the people attending the Lam Rim don't get the benefit immediately, but maybe after 10 years, the people attending the Lam Rim remember the teaching and start to use the teaching and get the benefit, the people who help in the Lam Rim, who contribute in the running of the Lam Rim will get all the good seeds, yeah? So I would like to say that all these are very, very similar. So either you build stupa or you write books or you volunteer in a Dharma teaching, and not just the, not only the people attending the Dharma teaching, the people attending the Dharma teaching and sharing the teaching to others and those other people get the benefit, the people contributing to the Dharma teaching will also get the good seeds.

So it's like a perpetual, perpetual seeds increasing effort, you know? So that's amazing, right? For example, we see all the translators here, you know?

I see Bertha very excitedly translating, and then I think I saw Emily just now, and then we saw Luca and Catherine helping to translate, you know? So even if just one person benefits from the teaching, all those people get the good seeds. So it's amazing, right?

So yeah, if this person regrets, is it the same as removing the good seeds? So you mean the person regrets writing the book? I don't know.

I think as long as there is benefit for others, the person get a good seeds. I only know that when the person is angry, then yes, he's removing the good seeds, but I'm not so sure about regret. So let's not worry about the negative.

Let's focus on the positive, okay? Okay, 10 o'clock, but okay, let's continue some more. Hopefully I can answer.

In class, we talk about the many subtleties of links. It turned out that every link is deep dive. Oh, okay.

Oh, do I need an initiation to draw the wheel of life? I don't think so, Elmira. I don't think you need any initiation.

It's not a secret teaching. It's an open teaching. It's an open teaching.

So yeah, in fact, if you read the, if you read the, I mean, the book that we just finished, on the second part, Geshe Michael took the quoted, quoted from the Vinaya, and there is an instruction about how to draw the wheels. Yeah, for example, we talk about the inner wheel on the six realms, the bottom is the hell realms, and then on the right-hand side is the hungry ghost, and then on the left-hand side is the animal realm, and then the human realm is just, the god's realm is on the top, the right is a human, the left is a demigod. So there is, there are these instructions, so you can actually draw, or you can just copy, you know?

So no, I don't think there is any requirement for initiation. Anybody can draw the wheel of life if you want to. All right, and yeah.

Thank you, Venerable Kat. Mindstream has been around since beginningless time, since Raipan, yeah, and describe experience based on how we treat others. Okay, so looks like we cover almost everything.

So since it's, my time is 10 o'clock, I think it's eight o'clock, eight o'clock Arizona time, right, it's nine, wow, it's 11 o'clock in Beijing. Okay, so let's end here. If I miss any questions, don't worry.

You can ask many other people. Venerable Upala will be on Thursday, 25th, and next week we will have Ben Kramer, we'll have Tim Lowenhaupt, and we'll have Nick Lashaw. So, and finally we have Geshe Michael.

Yeah, so please keep your questions and ask them, okay? So I hope the Q&A session has been beneficial to you. I enjoy talking to all of you, although I'm the only one talking, nobody is talking to me.

So, all right, have a good evening for people in Asia and have a good day for people in the Western Hemisphere. Bye-bye, good day.