Сугэн Ши — Книга 2: Колесо жизни (первый принцип и подразделения зависимости), занятие 68

[Speaker 1]
Your Spanish is amazing, Sugeng. It's one of your eight languages you speak. I'm learning, I'm learning.

Please guide me. Okay, good luck with your class and thank you so much. See you soon.

All right, thank you. Hi everyone, it's supposed to be team translation. So, I hope everybody's here.

I see Ben Kramer, yeah. I see Adam, yeah. You are my lifeline.

Oh, I see Nick. So, Sugeng, let's start with the pronunciation of team, not team translation. Team, I'm sorry.

Team translation.

[Speaker 3]
I'm sorry. Yeah, I thought you said team's translation too.

[Speaker 1]
Team's translation.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, I was like, I'm not prepared for this, Sugeng, at all. You can do it, Tim.

[Speaker 1]
You know, the karma really ripens quickly. I was teasing people about long and short vowel and it came back now. I'm sorry, team.

Let's have team translation.

[Speaker 2]
Perfect.

[Speaker 1]
All right, I'm sorry. Oh yeah, we have Gibson too, with Fala too. All right, so.

So, I think I'll start with my homework questions. Okay, so, I hope we still remember. I couldn't.

I have to look back at my book. Otherwise, I also forgot. According to the great book on the synonyms for causation, what would be the repercussion be if the consciousness does not enter the mother's womb?

And by the way, thanks to Aisha, she found the source, which is from the Pali Canon. And yeah, so it's amazing. It's amazing.

So yeah, what would be the result if the consciousness does not enter the mother's womb? Does anyone remember? So, we are in the discussion of the link to the fresh karma triggering link three consciousness.

And then we also touch a bit on link three triggering link four on the body and mind. And then we also sort of connect to link four triggering link five, the six doors of senses. So, here we are still on the third link which is consciousness.

Does anyone remember? Okay, I'm sorry to call the panel. If the consciousness does not enter the womb, well then you're definitely not in the wheel.

Okay. Good try. Yeah.

Thank you. Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, logically, right, that is the way we will jump into but according to the text according to the sutra, then the physical part of name and form be just as senseless or unconscious fetus, which is not in the wheel. Pretty good.

Pretty good. Yeah. Thank you, venerable.

Next one, why does it make no sense to discuss about the six types of consciousness, as explained by Lord Buddha in the context of the third link of dependence. That's not the consciousness he's talking about. Sorry, repeat again.

He's not talking about the six types of consciousness when he's talking about when he says namaste. Precisely, precisely. Yeah, he's not talking about that right he's talking about because we only discuss about the idea of this specific consciousness triggered by the link of fresh karma.

So yeah, we are not, we are not talking about the six consciousness. Thank you. And what would be the repercussion if the complete six consciousness cross to the next link with the name and form in need.

Does have to do with there will be no form and formless round beans, or to be no formless round beans, or something like that.

[Speaker 2]
Can you repeat again, it doesn't know formless round beans or something like that.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, okay. No, actually, not really. Basically, we just said, nobody would ever be born blind or deaf.

Oh, sorry.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, right, right, right. Because if they had the eye consciousness, then everyone would have eyes.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, correct, correct. That's, that's the answer. Yeah, thank you.

All right, let's go for the vocabulary. May know, may know your mother's womb, mother's womb. Yes.

Number one. Crossing the line crossing the line making the crossing into the next life in our context. Yeah, I think you have to put an income drawer.

Yeah. Me, me or me. Yeah, depending.

Okay. How do I spell that. n y i n g means I'm drawing on the income drawer.

Oh, I missed the name. All right, thank you. How about gal.

The loose consciousness. Yes, to lose consciousness, or faint to fall unconscious to fall on. Yeah, basically they are the same.

Yeah. What faint. Think faint.

Oh faint. Yeah. All right.

Cool. Thank you, like team. Team.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Okay, so let me go to the translation of time.

Like team I'm sorry. Maybe I should start calling you Timothy huh it's easier that way. It's a good idea.

[Speaker 2]
So formal, I like it.

[Speaker 1]
Instead of calling you Nick, you know, that's exactly anything but Nick, Nick, or calling me, you know, team. Call me team. Timothy.

Okay, so, yeah, this is the. Well, so again, basically we are talking about how the consciousness crossover. And then there are quite a few discussions.

So let's continue with the verse that Gisela wanted me to translate and. Yeah, and let's go through. So, I'm lucky I have some notes from Gisela but I tried to make sense of them.

So, they move by do my day, Gisela. Yeah, before the end, he said that it's meaningless to talk about that. They move by to talk, and then don't make the meaningless.

And then they move by. Even without saying. Young lady, Jackie.

The details of the karma, or specific karma for the specific karma. Yeah. The chat.

Yeah, could be specific or karma. I start details I put details. No, it could be, it depends on the types.

Yeah, okay. Okay, well what is this young by the way, you said it perfectly. You said even even.

Even. Without saying, even without speaking or whatever. I see, even without speaking, even without saying, like, Jackie, the specific karma.

This is very mind only right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I will master is my only person. Number seven.

Careful words and give you a hat. Yeah, I do stuff one will take eight years to get that hat. I think this is saying, I've seen lines like this in mind only it's saying, yeah, that specific.

Those like phenomenon, like that's the thing that comes up from that is actually just the consciousness, occurring, or something, something occurring through. Hold on. Let me.

Okay, I have the recording. Okay. Feature so like feature, something like that like a detail of the consciousness, a, a, an aspect they usually say non part but it seems very similar.

So, yeah, totally. Details of the consciousness. What do I see this corresponding word comes about as the details of the to cure.

Yeah, to cure. Okay. As the details.

Okay. Something like that. All right, and then they lay me down shook to cure.

Then that, then that becomes the name and form him. Yeah, and due to the karma right that becomes name and form that delay is not karma. Okay.

Hey, like they're from going in succession, daily. Yeah, succession on next. Okay.

And then, they're like a do key to that. Yeah, he's just saying he's the one triggers the next one triggers the next one, those days. All right.

And then number eight page hero number eight page hero so only logical. That's what those hat wearing guys say. Well that that one is concept logic.

Oh, okay. This is the concept. Okay.

Wait. Aren't the number Rick buzz aren't the mind only lists. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

I don't know. I don't know if it's saying that there because that's what the mind only people say, you think so.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Nobody bought all the mind only. Okay. That's my knowledge.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, because they say that.

[Speaker 1]
As if he didn't found the school he's like. Thank you. Okay.

Oh, that's what they say. Okay.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
All right. Yeah, I guess. I can't remember what came before did be threatened to give you the mind only perspective, recently.

I know we have dive into mind only quite a lot actually yeah yeah we are on the third link. Yeah, I think that's what's going on he's just clarifying again. I think so.

I will I will tidy up the translation for the next class so I'm not going to be like sagey because I can't type as fast. So I'd rather spend time to this to learn more from all of you. Just anxiety get someone to read.

Oh yeah, sure. I, let me see. I have angry with me you want to read.

Come, come over closer. I heard she's excellent at reading.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you work for guiding your students, including her.

She's a diligent student. So Greg, it sounds, it looks like you can do a podcast. Are you thinking about it?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
I know the reason I bought this is because I tend to speak very loudly because my computer is a distance. So my wife say why don't you just buy a mic so I don't have to shout. I bought a mic but I'm still shouting.

Skillful means. Yeah. So, Kelty, if they chedaki the details.

Those details that it has. Those details. Because they chedak to mean you're not me.

If, if they don't yield. If they don't tell us that we just talked about those details don't bring about those other details, I don't cost them bring about those other details. Guitar young money.

She may can do your bar mean euro. Then there's no existence between cause and effect, then there is no. Okay, that's nice.

Thank you. Something like that.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
The former was a condition factor for the latter. Then it can't be the case that the former brings about the latter.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. She makes calls. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Jim brings about. Yeah, great trigger.

[Speaker 1]
The condition of the other former brings about the condition of the late, late letter right mean your yeah, not the case. It's not a case. Yeah, it's not a case.

Yeah. All right. Young chum young chum dandy key.

Can you all won't guilty. Number ship by manual do my shookna session body. Oh, I should have asked somebody to read I'm sorry.

Even if. No, also Lord Buddha said to also Lord Buddha. Also the Buddha.

The Buddha said to an under an under. Yeah. If the consciousness of the mushroom.

What is mushroom. It's not entering right. Yeah, never enter the womb of a mother of the mother.

Very chapar jatte. So, this is something we have to examine further. This will say examine that statement that Lord Buddha made.

We should make that we should examine that statement. Session body chop our job. Okay.

Rest sick. Now do my shookna say john D. Don't get up.

Guilty D. Domingo by you know Shana risk. Well then, no provisionally, probably a provisionally.

Yeah, I'll do my shookna if it didn't enter the womb. If we say that, if we say that it didn't enter the womb. This just D don't do double didn't do double do double is, what is that.

Like how it is. How things are how. How does it mean, what, what do we mean by that, what do we mean by that.

What do you mean by that guilty didn't mean by you know Shana. Oh yeah I missed this part. So guilty didn't mean to buy a notion.

It doesn't mean it just, it doesn't mean it doesn't. It is not, and it is not having that meaning. Can I say that.

If it is doing definitely meaning there. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. I don't know. I mean, mean you power this mean you didn't.

Oh, it on. If the meaning is.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah. So, is that helpful.

[Speaker 1]
Hey, what would you do.

[Speaker 3]
So if it didn't enter the womb, then.

[Speaker 1]
No. Enter the clarifying what do I mean by that. Well here's the new question.

Yeah, if, if the meaning is, it's, this isn't clear but it's like if the meaning is what you said then it didn't enter the room. Because the yen is an is. So, right.

But don't feel weird to me though. Yeah. Why are we men joking, we saying the meaning is men joke.

Yeah, I think so. The meaning is that it didn't enter. Okay, it's just weird that it seems to say but why does it.

[Speaker 2]
Well I guess it's like, what do we mean by not staying in the womb if it doesn't mean not entering the room or something. Right shook and do here are synonyms right like if it doesn't mean when we say my shook. What does it mean, if not, men joke.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, totally. If I were when we say it didn't enter we mean they entered. What else could it mean, if it doesn't mean verb, there's different tenses actually.

Yeah. So basically, this is still this is correct right if the meaning is what you said meaning that if it is not entering. That means, that means what we're asking is it.

Why, why didn't it enter. Something is not entering. Then.

So how should I put Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean, meaning of this mean it's saying the meaning of the phrase. Okay, okay. If the phrase, or meaning of it or its meaning or something like that.

Right. Yeah, go ahead. He's answering the question G taboo with men do.

Yeah, how shall we interpret D done. Well, if D. If it's D done, you're worried about or something like that.

It means it is men Jupiter.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
So, just the D done. Okay, yeah. If, if it means what it means that you didn't enter the womb, can I say that.

[Speaker 2]
If we're hoping we're going to get an answer.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. All right. Oh, but so you kind of left out the dungeon taboo.

Oh, no one comes in, ask what does it mean. Someone. Come.

Oh there you see you have it sorry sorry sorry nevermind. No, no, you don't. Just means what it says.

So, someone has asked, what does, what does this mean. Yeah. What does it mean.

Well, what does it mean to you. When we say, if it didn't enter the womb, what does that mean. See it marks.

What is the person's asking about. You can put it in quotes to catch the show Java. Yeah.

So it's my should not is what they're asking. What is this one right. If, if, if it's in there.

Oh, within the quotes. Yeah, if you enter the womb. Yeah, and then.

So this is actually wrong right. Can I just over kind of making it more elegant. Which one.

We're making it more correct yeah I mean whittling away and trying to make a nicer and catch all the elements. So, or there are two if here. What do you have to catch you also have to catch D done so you can't just say what does it mean, because we're going to repeat this phrase D done so I think this is a really important thing.

So it says D. So it's like if someone were to ask, like, how do I interpret this meaning or something. I'm not saying that's the exact words you should write but somehow you're meaning of this, or the meaning of this.

Yeah, yeah. Or you could, you wouldn't even have to put this in English, you could just because of the quotation marks, I mean Tibetans a little more difficult to part with English we don't have to add all those words. So the meaning of it didn't enter the womb.

[Speaker 2]
That's right.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. And then we would say if I don't understand what the delta is doing there but it's like, if it's the meaning. If the meaning.

Or it could be should it shouldn't be. Should. Why is there a delta though.

Anyone. Yeah, it could be the meaning be, it doesn't enter. Yeah, I think.

Yeah, it's the what's that called not operative the. Were you supposing. Yeah.

So, I suppose it could be suppose I was gonna say so positive. What's the meaning of. That's different.

Supposing it means this. Yes, suppose the meaning is not there's a shame not all the way at the end. Yeah, there is.

Well that's the if someone asked. Right. And the you know tells us.

Oh, no, tells us okay that's the end of what they said. So, but I mean, yes, so, you know, should be before the guilty not, not, not before the ratio. Oh so somebody still asking right.

Yep. Yes, yes, yes, this. Yeah.

If the meaning is it didn't enter. If the meaning is it doesn't enter. Yeah, how do I interpret this meeting that.

Yeah, maybe it's not supposed does it mean it doesn't enter. Yeah, something like that. Doesn't go in there.

Yeah. Yeah, because we should change the wording, otherwise it seems ridiculous. Right.

Ridiculous in the West Chinese so. Yeah. Anyway, I'll just take note of this and then, yeah.

Yeah. They didn't have all that other business after the word, they're really only. They only mentioned that word mean to buy in.

So, you don't have to talk about the womb. They're just all the verb in that phrase what the heck to shoot mushroom mean. So that's kind of perfect you change it from didn't enter to doesn't enter, which is probably almost exactly how the Tibetan changes.

That's fine. I like it. I like it.

Okay. Next, next, next.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, I don't have any more time but let's, let's help me to understand.

[Speaker 3]
Sharp end of the rope. Right, Adam.

[Speaker 2]
I was about to say I was pretty impressed that you knew that was the terminology for leading.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, man. Yeah, climbing above perfect like it's a kind of a more dangerous form of climbing. That's it.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, okay, I don't really understand.

[Speaker 2]
That's why I was surprised that that Apollo knew it.

[Speaker 1]
I just said it for Adams benefits. Who's gonna read. Oh yes, thank you.

Let me check. Let me see. So many names.

I don't know. I let me check who is available. Anybody wants to read.

He wants to read. Please. Thank you.

The crossing into a new life. Yeah, the birth as crosses into a new life, the birth of the birth crossing to a new life, the consciousness of the birth crossing a new life. Consciousness that crosses into birth.

So consciousness that makes the crossing. As consciousness into a new birth. Consciousness making a crossing in into a new birth.

Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Old one.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, well it just says K or so. Yeah, it's a into birth.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Maybe let me. Anyway, that me.

Yes, the consciousness, which makes the cross. Reach into birth. The hard thing is this request.

Yeah, what's that. Oh, no problem. Thank you.

[Speaker 2]
Logical.

[Speaker 1]
Can't say that it is not suitable to say that it is not. That's Rick's.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, we didn't get there. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
It is not. Sorry, what do you call that. It is not.

Yeah. It's logical. Yeah.

Well first I said we should ignore these notes. Second of all, it's Rick's but is illogical not Rick. Okay, so without us, it should be it is not right.

Can we set up. Well, Rick my in means no knowledge, no understanding ignorant or something so it is not. It's not intelligent.

Or something. It's ignorant. It's ignorant.

[Speaker 2]
Say it makes no sense to say that it makes no sense. That can probably, by the way, reverse the whole flow of this sentence.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Start with, it makes no sense to say that.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. The consciousness which makes the crossing into a birth enters the mother's room enters the mother's room. Yeah.

But, however, yeah. The other please ellipses or comma. What's that.

Oh yeah yeah one or the other. It's it's not an ellipses at all. There's four dots.

There was four. Sorry, it was just, it was, it was abstract art, it's just. Sorry, what should I use.

Can I just put dots. He's saying, he's saying one or the other. Yeah, you can use the comma or three dots, or you can use the dots and commas to draw a mother's room.

Okay. Okay. That's hard not to understand.

I mean this is just my notes that I have to come back and make sure that they link together. Yeah, I've just seen notes become translations so that's all. I promise, I promise that won't happen in my text.

Sorry. Okay, cool. Okay, let me.

Sorry. Oh, do you take key smearing. We have to read first someone has to know about cutting.

You are our favorite.

[Speaker 3]
Thank you. Do Jake he young Sue group a non far shape honey. Jay, pa.

War made.

[Speaker 1]
Pardon me.

[Speaker 3]
Pardon me.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you. Do check key. So the first comma young Sue group.

They group a non far shape on me, the consciousness smeared well smeared by the first comma well smeared by the first comma smeared smeared well smear. Well, completely. Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 2]
I hate to say, by the way, that this with a saw sure seems to be in immediate opposition to the without the saw.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah, totally. You're right. I mean you we said it makes no sense which is the same meaning so yeah.

We could also make a note to check the carving. Oh, this one. Oh, yeah.

I've never seen it used in that way. That doesn't mean it can't be but it could be. Okay.

Okay, so. So, I guess what would be reasonable. Yeah, that's cool.

Yeah. However, what would it make sense. Yeah.

Yeah. Is that would be for the consciousness, which has been in printed by fresh caramel, if you like. Yeah, it's been smeared.

Yeah, we use imprinted and holding. Oh, okay. Oh, okay.

[Speaker 2]
To enter the mother's womb. Following, maybe, I don't know, as a something like, I don't know, like as a, like immediately.

[Speaker 1]
No existence as a flow. It's like in between the whole part of my here saying like, with a some kind of break. Well no I think it's the, it's a gun as a continuum as a stream following from the in between being.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, the Parma is the, the, the Bordeaux is it's in in a gune in a screen that you shouldn't probably write this but in a stream. You know, entering via the stream of an intermediate being, or part of my means into me being here. Oh, okay.

I think so. I think so.

[Speaker 1]
How would you say Sipa Parma. Parsi can definitely mean Parsi means a Bordeaux. Yeah, right.

What SIPA could be the 10th link.

[Speaker 2]
Yes, that could be right, because yeah and Parsi is right abbreviation for Bordeaux he see pop right so if you reverse the genitive, and make it a noun adjective, right the genitive you can make an adjective now.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, is the phrase that has been used for I guess your Michael to mean the Bordeaux. I see. Okay.

That's what I said. Yeah, I just found it meaning the Bordeaux. The Bordeaux itself, which could make sense in this, I think either the being or the Bordeaux itself could make sense here.

I think we're talking about, are we talking about beings who travel around the wheel of life. Totally. But I mean you're saying like they get in there via the consciousness comes in through the Bordeaux, like in a flow, or you could say in a flow through the Bordeaux or in a flow as a Bordeaux being.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, or, you know, the via the intermediate state, or something. I don't know, could you say you need, could that be sounds like yeah.

[Speaker 1]
By way of doing the like by way of better like it. And then you don't need streams. By way of continuous.

The by way of the intermediate state by by way of being, yeah, it's, it's continuous.

[Speaker 2]
It's, it's meaning that they're, you know, it's, it's falling from that state right you have you die, right the the stream the gun, the continuum here is death intermediate state, and showing up in mommy's womb. So that's the gun.

[Speaker 1]
So he via that flow by way of that progression. Why is continuity. And I would personally suggest changing that would be to is.

No, the first one. First one, what is real. Oh, I mean they're being very, very, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

[Speaker 3]
Fair enough.

[Speaker 1]
What, what, what is the equivalent of why by way of here which part is showing the first two words of the second line.

[Speaker 2]
Give me by the continuum literally.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. It literally means continuous continuous right. Yeah.

I mean, all right. I would say what is reasonable is the consciousness which has been imprinted by fresh government to enter the mother's womb. Like this, what is reasonable is, well and it's to say that, to say that's when we just said it, it's not reasonable to say above, and I wouldn't repeat saying to say again.

Oh, because it's all on a flow. As you're saying what is reasonable is that consciousness, which has been imprinted by. Okay.

You don't have to say the intermediate state either you could just say by way of the intermediate state. my way off. Ah, yes.

The intermediate being intermediate state. Okay. All right.

Okay. Sure. Thank you.

Okay, next. Let's see. Ah, venerable Gyalse.

[Speaker 3]
Thank you. Oh, this is kind of fun. It's kind of fun.

[Speaker 1]
Due to that combining with, combining with. Due to that combining of, can I say that? Combining with or combination of, you got to pick one.

Combination of the blood and the kua, the cement. Yupana. Yupana is combination, right?

Yeah. If those two come together, if they. Of the blood and cement.

The blood, hold on. No. Due to the combination of that.

Due to the combination of. When we've got trunked on kua, Yupana. When the blood and cement, or if the blood and cement come together.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Now, now next statement after the cheer, it moves on. So.

Oh, okay. But the, if, if the blood or something like that. Yeah.

Due to the, due to the. Due to that. Oh yeah.

The blood and cement or if the blood and the semen come together. So Sugeng. At the time of blood and semen.

Blood and semen. No, not, well, yeah.

[Speaker 2]
The day dangdrelwa, the day dangdrelwe cheer, Sugeng, doesn't yet relate to blood and semen. Oh, okay. There's a, a connection.

[Speaker 1]
Dangdrelwa is, is a connection with day. Day, that has a connection. And the connection refers to the previous.

And I'm fuzzy on that, frankly. What, what exactly is the day that is connected here? I don't know, but because of that connection.

The day is the, is what we just talked about the second and third. Oh, great.

[Speaker 2]
Great.

[Speaker 1]
Great. French, fresh karma entering the mother's womb by way of the intermediate state.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. So what's the connection? What two things are connected?

[Speaker 1]
Is it now we are. Oh, because no, no, no, no, no. Because the last things came together.

Then when the mother went, then when the blood and semen to come together, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Yeah.

So the last things came together, which, which thing? Because, because. Because fresh karma.

Because fresh karma yielded consciousness, which then flowed into the mother's womb via the bardo. So consciousness and the mother's womb or whatever. Yeah.

Yeah. It's the connection of consciousness in the mother's womb. Because we're talking about what the heck does it mean to shook into mother's womb?

What does it mean to enter? What's going on? Right.

Yeah. Okay. So it's the connection between the consciousness, which has been imprinted upon and the mother's womb.

By where the intermediate state. Yeah. I think so.

Okay. Okay. That's what I, I, I think.

Seems okay. Yeah. Great.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Then because of that, if the.

[Speaker 1]
I argue you could even you say link instead of connection. Oh, okay. Like tendril.

Uh-huh. Oh, tendril. Oh, that link.

Yeah. It's the drill in tendril. Yeah.

Okay. Due to the link with that, due to the connection with that. Yeah.

As long as no one thinks that that's a link, you know, on the way, the connection of those. If the blood and semen then come together. Or when?

I know I was. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Name and form ripen. Ming dang shuk sunam par mimpani. The ripening of name and form.

Yeah. Name and form will then ripen. If all that happens, name and form will ripen.

Yeah. Okay. Cool.

Every, everyone loses consciousness. Is that how I, is that how I should put it? No, I don't know.

I don't know. I don't understand. Yeah.

Geluwa means loss of consciousness, just like. Yeah. Geshe-la put by itself without the consciousness.

Oh, so without, without the consciousness, but I mean, the comma is here instead of here. And there's no negatives. There's no negative.

It's, it's summing the whole thing up as kuntu geluwa. Always unconscious.

[Speaker 2]
Ever unconscious. And apparently at least at one point thought that means like totally whack. Utterly senseless to think such a thing.

[Speaker 1]
Maybe.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, indeed. Maybe it was right. I'm looking.

[Speaker 1]
Utterly senseless.

[Speaker 2]
Is a kuntu. Well, maybe it's a strange way.

[Speaker 1]
No, no, no. Without consciousness, always without consciousness. Oh.

Right? Geluwa. Yin.

Yeah. It is without consciousness. All that came before the knee.

Is always without consciousness. Is that right? Well, she's yeah, she's right.

I mean. But then that kind of negates our deidang geluwa. Because wasn't consciousness mentioned in the last section?

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. If this is saying without consciousness, then the day can't be consciousness in the last section.

Okay, then maybe the knee. Let's see. Maybe the knee applies to the migdang suksu nampar mimpa.

[Speaker 2]
Oh. Because we're talking about a state in which it doesn't enter. Right.

So because of the. We're talking about what it means for something to not enter. So if you have a.

I guess what happens if the blood and semen come together? I don't know. Can you what happens if you have a ripening of name and form without consciousness?

[Speaker 1]
I think it is referring to this. I mean, if we only. I mean, because we already have this fact established.

Therefore, this is senseless. This is senseless. No, then.

This doesn't make sense. All right. No, I don't think it says that.

I think it's I think it says. Because that first part, you don't need consciousness to be occurring in blood and semen. Yes, because of the first part.

It is kuntu gel to say that the name and form will ripen due to. Blood and semen coming together. So because we have already established this fact before earlier, therefore, it doesn't make sense at all to say that the name and the form will ripen due to the blood and the semen.

Can I say that? It could. Well, the na is answering some kind of it could be answering the question of the na.

The na. Yeah. So I don't think it means completely senseless.

I really don't think that means that. OK. But I mean, if you can show me some place where we've used as sense senseless instead of unconscious.

Yeah, exactly.

[Speaker 2]
No, I and I just looked and it obviously there's a question mark after even in issue Michael's notes.

[Speaker 1]
So he. Oh, this one seems to suggest that that's not something he was confident in. Yeah, I think it means, therefore, Tractum Cua Dupa, if you just say if those two are kuntu gelwa, those are those things are completely unconscious.

Right. Without consciousness. Ah, without this.

Without this. And when this come to ripen, the name and form, they will be unconscious. Is no, I think it's saying you can have blood and semen that has no consciousness because of day down gelwa.

You don't need because it does. I see. Yeah.

Well, but I know.

[Speaker 2]
But I think that that if like if you could write then like tongue made from from what like from whence or like how in that like from where would you get descriptions of a fetus?

[Speaker 1]
Hmm. Sorry, if if if if because of that connection we just talked about of of consciousness coming from the previous link through the bardo into a womb, then if somehow blood and semen could combine to ripen into name and form without consciousness.

[Speaker 2]
Then then then up upon what or from what would you get?

[Speaker 1]
Descriptions of or explanations, nampar shakpa of fetus. Like why on earth do you have the idea of a fetus?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. What does it mean to say a fetus? Like what like how could you get that?

And he's going to have to explain further. This is not satisfying, but I think this is the direction we're moving in. But we need more.

Yeah, let's relate.

[Speaker 1]
Kongle is like as whence from whence.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, from whence. Yeah, from whence. Yeah, forgive me.

From whence would such fetus come? Poisoning your head with that. But yes, that did come to mind.

Yes, from whence but yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Related to king whencelessness, you know. King whencelessness.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Well, from where? From where? Yeah, whence is a old English word.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I see. Wow.

Okay, I need to wrap my mind around the idea. With the idea of fetus, right? Not just the fetus.

Oh, it's the fetus come from. But the presentation on feti. Yeah, the presentation on feti.

[Speaker 2]
What is there to consider a fetus?

[Speaker 1]
Oh, what would even a fetus? Yeah, what fetus are you talking about? Yeah, what is it you're calling the fetus?

Okay. Okay. But don't forget our from whence.

Do, forget it. Please forget it. Okay, I learned something.

She means under no circumstances should you remember that. Whence, from where? But where do we get the idea of calling it a fetus?

Yeah. Where do we get the idea of calling it a fetus? Okay, I think the knee kuntugewa would then just be like, making it completely unconscious.

That's what it's saying. Making it completely unconscious. Therefore, what fetus could there be?

Yeah. Yeah. Making it completely unconscious.

I think so. Okay. Oh, with the knee?

Yeah, he's saying if it's just blood and semen, that becomes name and form, then it's completely unconscious. And then what kind of fetus are you talking about then? I see.

Okay. It has no consciousness. I see.

Oh, okay. But how do we link to this, the dangdrawe chi? That part is, I don't know.

We just put a comma there and hope for the best. Put it on the end of the last sentence and then we'll find. Okay.

I mean, having a cheer like that is a little weird anyway. Yeah. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
We have to stall one more minute to, on this paragraph to- With the next one.

[Speaker 1]
We can do the next paragraph in a minute. All right. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
You can read it for good luck.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, okay, okay. Okay, I will read for good luck. Oh, now it all makes sense.

I think the point here is that if a person is not born into the mother's womb. No, he's saying, well, if you think didun means they're not born at all. Yeah.

If that's what the armin juk or amashuk meant. Well, then. Yeah, well, if you think that's what it means, then um they're only, they're only born, they're only born when they get to the fourth link.

[Speaker 2]
Well, they'd say name and form are all that takes birth. Yeah. Since then, all that takes birth is name and form.

Because of that.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and that's illogical. So illogical to say that the birth. It's illogical to say that it's birth under those conditions.

Yeah. It's just name and form without consciousness. Yeah.

Ezra looks like he knows something that we don't know.

[Speaker 2]
He knows that.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, he knows a lot we don't know, I'm sure.

[Speaker 2]
He knows that the pumpkins have been carved in the other room and that it's 731 here in New Mexico and that it's the time that I promised to come behold the carved pumpkins. Is that right, Ezra?

[Speaker 1]
Are you going to have roasted pumpkin seeds for a snack? That's my favorite part about pumpkins. Yeah, we're going to try to do that tonight too.

We'll see what happens. We carved two so far. Thank you very much for the effort to do team translation.

Let's everybody give a round of applause for Tim. Good job, team. Good job, team.

Good translation, Tim. Wow, team. Good effort, team.

Thank you, team. Where's Nick? There's no more Nick.

There's only team. Tim, you want to say something at the end? Is the team Nick last show?

Oh, thank you, guys. Thank you, everybody who came and especially the 200 plus people who stuck around all the way to the end. You guys are amazing.

And translators who did all the translating all this. Oh, boy. We owe you like chocolate or something.

I'm sorry. Yeah, we thank you and we'll see you next time. Happy Halloween for those of you who like that kind of thing.

Bye-bye. Good night. For anyone who wants to say, team, are you going to teach grammar today?