Сугэн Ши — Книга 2: Колесо жизни (первый принцип и подразделения зависимости), занятие 60

[Speaker 1]
Hi everybody.

[Speaker 2]
Hey Nick.

[Speaker 1]
Hi Professor Nick.

[Speaker 2]
Do we still have one minute? We have 37 seconds.

[Speaker 1]
I think 37 seconds, yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, I don't want to rush.

[Speaker 1]
I don't want to rush anybody either. They got spotlighted to my surprise. Hey.

Hi. Looking good, looking good. Thank you.

With this haircut or shorter haircut is better? I'm joking, sorry. I am not one to be a fashion consultant.

[Speaker 2]
Each next thing you try looks even more handsome than the last.

[Speaker 1]
What a sweet tongue. Thank you.

[Speaker 2]
Well, good evening, good morning, good afternoon world. It's so wonderful to have you all join us again and again. It's delightful to get to be together.

We're excited as always at your presence and the gang is standing by, ready to share homework. I don't have anything else to say, so luckily you can't hear me anyway much over all the excitement building in the greater chat room. Dr. Geshe-Michael, glad to see you. Thank you so much for deigning to spend these evenings with us. It's such a treat. We're lucky duckies.

[Speaker 1]
Where's your barbershop? I think I need one.

[Speaker 2]
Do they do virtual cuts?

[Speaker 1]
They do real cuts. I'm sorry.

[Speaker 2]
Dr. Sugeng, give us your homework. Show us, torture us, make it hurt.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you. Hey, Ben, Ben. Yes, boss.

Eat your heart out.

[Speaker 2]
I don't know how. What is that? It's a chicken nugget in the middle of Africa.

[Speaker 1]
Cup save from the sun.

[Speaker 2]
Look at you.

[Speaker 1]
Only our room gets it. It's a religious duty. I should have the bowl here.

Go easy, guys. Good luck on that. All right.

We're all in control. Don't worry. Just like Ezra and Amelie.

[Speaker 2]
Are also in control of the situation.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, let's go. Okay, sure. I'll share the homework now.

Don't worry. All of you can still enjoy what they are in Sedona because the homework is not too difficult this time around. When we discuss the consciousness as link number three, beside the fresh karma as link number two, what is the possible trigger that we discuss in the dependence book by Master Vasubandhu?

I suppose. And looking at this space is pretty short. Say again, Ben?

Sense objects. Sense object.

[Speaker 2]
What else? Sense powers.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yes. Yes.

Yes, that's right. Sense powers and the associated objects. Thank you, Oscar.

And what is the reason Lord Buddha used the fresh karma as opposed to the sense powers in the will as the trigger for the consciousness? Consciousness as link number three. First of all, since powers come later in the wheel.

Okay. And it doesn't look like that's your answer. There is one more.

Say again, who said that just now?

[Speaker 2]
It's talking about the next life.

[Speaker 1]
Yes, that's the answer. We are talking about a consciousness for the next life being triggered by the fresh karma. The last one.

What are the three? What are the other three factors triggering the consciousness and which is the most important one? Well, the sequence was a bit...

This question should have come second rather than last. But anyway, I'm sorry. Ah, who is here?

Anya Singh bringing attention to the object. That's the most important. So what are the other two?

I think we covered in the previous question. Thank you. Yeah.

So yeah, sense power and the object and the attention. And the last one is most important. Okay.

Now the vocabulary. Rikmijewa. Rikmijewa.

What is this? Yes, not categorized. Venerable Pala say not categorized.

And in the class, we said that not divided by time. And the next one, chicken. Outer factors, outer conditions.

Oscar put a chicken. General condition. Yeah, that's right.

And the last one, Yudhusin. Yudhusin. Geshe-la said that this is an idiom, an idiomatic expression, right?

Yeah, not an idiom. It may be the case. It may already be the case.

Yeah, that's right. Oscar? That's what Chloe said.

You can give $50 each. Yeah. Yeah, maybe.

Maybe. Okay, Geshe-la, this is the attempted translation. Oh, I didn't put that thing.

Do you have the translation? Okay, good. I like the first part.

What? Yeah, what is the state of attention that triggers a, what is it, consciousness, right? Yes.

What is the state of attention that triggers a consciousness? Okay, good. Yeah.

Can you read this sentence, Mr. Siddhartha? Oh yeah, sure. Okay.

Okay. Let's just take this first piece. Kang mi tungpa meypa.

What's that mean? Mi tungpa meypa. What's that mean?

It's not contradicting? Yeah, it means there's no condition which would prevent the arisal of a consciousness, okay? So, we talk about the conditions that you need to have a consciousness of something, like the object should be there, your sense power should be operating your eyeball, and then maybe we can trigger a sense consciousness if there's also attention to the object, okay?

So, the object, the sense power, and the mind looking through the sense power at the object, those three things are required for what? Consciousness. Consciousness.

Awareness of the kapsi, which is important. And okay, why are we talking, why does he keep talking about the conditions for the arisal of consciousness? Why is he hung up on this?

[Speaker 2]
It's the next link in the chain?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, but it's not, it's the third link in the wheel of life. It's the third link of the wheel of life, it's consciousness. But the link that triggers it is, what's the link before it?

[Speaker 2]
Fresh deeds.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, fresh karma. Fresh karma. So, there's a huge debate going on, and it's long, and it's the longest piece of Vasubandhu's commentary.

And they say, why do they say that karma is what triggers consciousness? It's not karma that triggers consciousness, it's the presence of kapsi, the presence of tongue, and the mind that pays attention through the tongue to the kapsi, right? Okay?

And there's this huge debate, okay? And then he says, is it always the case if you have a, that you have a healthy sense consciousness, and you have a desirable object, is it always the case that you will have an awareness of it? And he says, unless there's a mitumba.

[Speaker 2]
I love how he has to go on this case.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, unless there's some other condition that's going to cause trouble. Some other blocker condition, as my teacher would have said. Okay?

Unless there's some other problem going on. So, mitumba here, by the way, mitumba very, very famous as a, the most famous context I can think of is in the case of a retreat. And there are mitumbas for a retreat.

Things that stop you from having a good retreat. Yeah. Bugs, bugs, and mice.

Bugs first, second bugs, and third mice, okay? Yeah. So, he says, look, if there's no other problem, you'll have an awareness of the kapsi.

So, then we say, well, what kind of problems are you talking about? Number one, sugeng, ni lopa. Sleeping.

I didn't, he's trying to demonstrate ni lopa.

[Speaker 2]
Two views, two streams.

[Speaker 1]
He's trying to, wait, sugeng is demonstrating ni lopa. Sleeping. Sleeping, ni lopa.

Lopa means to turn a pancake, okay? Turn something over. Ni lopa means go down for a nap, which I didn't because I had a meeting.

Okay, ni lopa. Okay. So, if you're asleep, it doesn't matter if the object is there, kapsi, and it doesn't matter if your tongue is working.

You're not going to be having awareness. The semba will be disturbed. What's semba?

[Speaker 2]
Movement of mind.

[Speaker 1]
The movement of the mind towards the object will be disturbed by the state of sleep. It'll be blocked by the state of sleep. You might dream about a kapsi, but you won't be tasting one.

Got it? Okay. What's another case?

Ra ro wa. Ra ro wa is an ancient, ancient word for dead drunk. Okay.

You guys haven't seen it before. I don't think so. Ra ro wa.

It's a very, very ancient word. 2,000-year-old word for dead drunk. Okay.

A horned corpse. Yeah. Nick, we're not going to talk about the history of this.

Yi shen tu chakpa. What's that? Desire toward something else.

Yeah, if you're totally focused towards the cappuccino, you may not be aware of the kapsi. Got it? You have…

Yi chakpa means strong, strong attraction towards a competing object. Okay. Got it?

Sei de le. Because of those conditions, at those times, okay, shen yi tsokpa yur. I admit two things are there, but the third one's not there.

What's the two things are there? The object and the sense power. Yeah, the object is there and the sense power is still working, but there's no awareness of a kapsi.

Okay. Shen yi tsokpa means those two came together, the kapsi and the sense power, but yu de sen, right? We had it.

Yeah. Chloe, yu de sen.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, in the case…

[Speaker 1]
There's our word, yeah. It could be the case that the two have come together, but de khen kyi, due to the other factors, the number shepa mi kye. The awareness of that kapsi does not arise.

Why? De khen kyi. What's that mean, khen?

[Speaker 2]
By the power of those factors?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, due to the other factor. Like what? Rarwa.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Being a drunk, et cetera, okay? Due to the other factor, khen kyi. That khen kyi means the other mental factors here, which are blocking the sempa, which are blocking the movement of the mind to the kapsi.

Got it? Cool? Cool.

By the way, this whole argument is why. Who's giving this argument? The other guy.

Don't give me this BS that link number two is karma. Link number two should be attention, or it should be kapse, or it should be… I don't see why you put the cause of consciousness as karma.

Everybody knows it's paying attention to kapse. Okay, got it? Good.

Number shepa mi kye te. You will not have consciousness towards the kapse if these other factors intervene, because there has been a yi la chepa, which is mitumba.

[Speaker 2]
A movement of attention, which is contrary to that movement.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. There's a state of attention which is blocking the other state of attention. Got it?

Cool? Yeah, like being out of sleep, or dead drunk, or attracted to the cappuccino so strongly that you're not aware of the smell of the kapse, which is almost unthinkable. Okay.

All right. Let's keep going, Sige. Yeah, sure.

Okay. Chi yang jung te, te dang drel way che ro. Yeah, and this is a little bit difficult.

Later on, your translation, later on the consciousness will grow, because it is free of those other factors. Okay? If the ra ro wa wears off, you will smell the kapse.

If you drink all the cappuccino, you will smell the kapse. Okay? If you wake up, you will smell the kapse.

Got it? Cool? Cool.

Wow. All right. Yeah.

Okay, Geshe-la, this is the attempt at translation, so would you please take the plane?

[Speaker 2]
Cool.

[Speaker 1]
If you give your plane up, I'll take the plane back. Yeah, I will. Yes.

Okay. I'm always hesitant to share the screen in case I get in trouble. Let's see.

Okay. Yeah. Oh, good.

Something, something serious. By the way, we're making incredible progress on Sige's text. The main translation is finished, and we're doing very cool historical research about his author.

And we finished translating his whole biography, which is pretty cool.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. I think we're here, right? Yes, Wangpo.

Okay, read once more, just to prove when they cut your hair they didn't take away your memory of Tibetan. Okay. Yeah, good.

By the way, I found this text one day when I was on a break in a DCI tour in Shanghai, and I was in a coffee shop, and I just, I found the book and I went crazy. And I did a, I just went through and translated it for fun. And I went crazy.

I did it in like three days or something. And it's about a year's work or something. And so you have all my original notes from the coffee shop.

Okay. And I finished the whole thing, I think. Because it was so amazing to me to find this commentary.

And I was really excited. Anyway, if the sense power, Wangpo, right? Sige?

Yes. And the dön, what's the dön? The object, the sense object.

And the yi la chepa? The attention. Yeah, and we're not raruwa?

Yeah, dön. Okay, good. When name and form come together in this sense, when name and form come together in this sense, okay, what's name and form usually mean in the Wheel of Life, Sige?

Link number four, the next link. Yeah. Which is what?

Body and mind? Yeah, body and mind entering the womb, in the boat. Okay.

So, but here, name and form in the sense of those three factors coming together. Okay. Which ones are form and which ones are name, by the way?

Name is the mind, form is form. Yeah, yi la chepa is name. Is the name.

Sense power and the object, the tongue power and the kapse is the form, name and form. What's the Sanskrit? Nama rupa?

Yeah, nama rupa. There was a yoga teacher in New York, he had a magazine called Nama Rupa. It's kind of cute.

Okay. All right. Gen gi nama shepa.

Okay. Name and form in that form, name and form in the form of three things coming together will trigger a consciousness. Okay.

Why do you think Vasubandhu put that here? Why did he say name and form are going to trigger consciousness? Oh, this is the name and form before this current life, which is as compared to the result of the third link as the next life.

Yeah. Name and form is the result of the third link. It's not the cause of the third link.

Got it? In the Wheel of Life, the two guys in the boat come after the monkey going into his mother's womb, right?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
So, he says, he's messing with the other guy. He's like, you want to talk about things out of order? Name and form, in this case, come before consciousness.

Think about that. Got it? He's being cute.

You think you have problems. What if I put number four before number three? Which is legal because we said the two sense things, the two physical things, sense power and sense object, kapse, and mind in the sense of the awareness of the kapse, come before the consciousness.

They trigger the consciousness of the kapse. Okay. You think you have problems.

Okay. Got it? He's being cute.

I don't know why. Okay. Sometimes these guys are cute.

Okay. Sugeng, now you can torture other people. Okay.

Bertha, are you translating? Oh, okay. You are translating.

All right. I'll find somebody else. I see Venerable Cat.

So nice to see you. Nice to see you too.

[Speaker 2]
That's good. Oh, would you like me to read?

[Speaker 1]
Yes, please. Yes. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you. Sorry about the echo here. Thank you very much.

[Speaker 1]
It's because you're in the mountains of Diamond Mountain. Let's go backwards, Sugeng. Lord Buddha mentioned, said, bespoke that the awareness, the consciousness is created by the by the general condition of the fresh karma.

Good. In the sense of, okay, in the sense of yang si. Yang si.

Rebirth? Reborn? Yeah.

And by the way, yang si is a synonym for tuku. You know, when you address a reincarnated teacher in the monastery, you might say yang si rinpoche, which means rebirth rinpoche. Okay.

Polite word. Okay. So yang si, here it means rebirth.

Okay. What causes a yang si? Duche.

Fresh karma? Yeah. Therefore, it's not weird that we put it before.

It's not weird that we put fresh karma before consciousness. Yeah, before consciousness, because it triggers the rebirth. Why did Lord Buddha put duche?

Why did Lord Buddha put fresh karma as the second link, and then he put consciousness as the third link, if what triggers consciousness is your awareness of kapsi? Why did he put it there? Why didn't he put sense consciousness before consciousness?

Why didn't he put tongue before consciousness in the Wheel of Life? Because he's implying that the third link will happen in the next life.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
The reason Lord Buddha put fresh karma as the trigger for consciousness, even though we all know the most important trigger for consciousness is kapsi and your tongue consciousness, is that it was all in the context of future life. What's going to trigger your future consciousness? And that's your fresh karma.

Cool? That's all. That's what he's saying.

Look, I've been talking about object consciousness. I've been talking about the presence of your sense powers. I've been talking about your mind has to be paying attention to it.

And those are all factors in the arisal of consciousness, number three. But you know, in the Wheel, we're talking about what happened in the last life to bring consciousness about. Okay, got it?

It doesn't mean that kapsi couldn't create a consciousness. It can. I can prove it.

Okay, but I'm not allowed to. Okay. Okay, let's keep going.

So again, who's going to read that next one here? Okay. I see.

Ah, Rocio. Chiola Chita.

[Speaker 2]
Hi, everybody.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, another mountain.

[Speaker 2]
Yes. Many mountains.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Very nice. You must be good at words, too.

Okay, here's those three factors in the kapse. So again, one more. The sense, the power, the sense power.

Yeah, the tongue sense power. The dön. The object, sense object.

The kapse itself. The yi na chepa. The attention.

Focusing on the kapse. Focusing on. By the kin of these things.

That's the condition of those things? Yeah. You do get number chepa.

You do get the consciousness. Wilkiewa. Arising.

Yep. Kei chik, kei chik, kei chik, kei chik. Each moment.

Moment to moment. Now, close your eyes. Anticipatory translation.

Look, I admit, moment to moment, you know, consciousness is created by the presence of kapse, the presence of the tongue, presence of the awareness of the tongue. Moment to moment, I agree that's what's triggering consciousness. But, what's he going to say?

But? The key is moment to moment. Yeah, but over.

[Speaker 2]
Over time.

[Speaker 1]
Lives. Over lives, okay? It's karma.

It's karma triggering consciousness, okay? I agree moment to moment in this life, awareness of sense objects is created by these three things. But, life to life, okay?

Yangtze, there it is. When you're talking reincarnation. Without duje.

Without fresh karma. Yeah, you cannot have a consciousness arise, okay? And the implication is nirpa jungwa mayin means they would never have the power.

If you didn't have another life, if you didn't trigger another life, even those three wouldn't have the power. Got it? There is no kapse without reincarnation.

Got it? Okay, this is serious stuff. Okay, this is something I've been very interested in during my studies.

All right, so Sugeng, who are you going to torture next? Oh, I saw Thu Hien Ting, Ting Thi Thu Hien. I don't know who that is.

Okay, oh, from Vietnam, okay. Okay. Dai tok ki tut nu pa yin the.

Yes. Te na ra ki ki kuwa mapo bi da. Pu ra hei me tok la chokpa ni.

Gupanyi, Gesa, Mapo, Chungkwa, Chahwe, Chirnyupa, Chungwa, Yingdi, Demipa, Nijima, Jinno, Chejawa, Demipeo. Thank you. Good job, good job.

Okay. DE LTOG GI MTHU By the power of that power, okay, by the power of that power, which is what? The three factors?

I would say first... No. Fresh karma...

Listen. Fresh karma enables the three. I see.

Oh. Okay, that's a new idea. Fresh karma enables the three.

Fresh karma enables the tongue to sense the cup, say, through because I pay attention to it. Okay, but it has to be coated with fresh karma. Karma has to...

What do you call that? Allow or... There's another word.

Karma has to make it happen. Okay? There can be an object.

There can be a sense power. There can be an awareness. It has to facilitate.

Okay? Karma has to facilitate. Okay, ready?

But the power of karma has to facilitate it. For example, gyak jeng is a plant in India called lak, L-A-C, and it makes a very gross red juice called lak juice, okay? Sap.

But that sap has an unusual ability to protect furniture, and the British grew it, and they created a stuff called shellac, which is a varnish. It's a furniture paint, a clear paint for furniture, and it's still popular, shellac. So, gyak jeng is a plant that makes lak, and lak...

It was a big commercial product in the 1800s. It was worth the British Empire's time to grow it, in addition to their heroin, which they sold in Hong Kong and forced people to pay. All right?

Kua means juice, okay? Kua means juice, and it's red, and it sustains things very strongly. It's a strong stain.

The lak paint is a strong... You use it for... What's that holiday in India where you throw dye on people?

Kumbh Mela or something?

[Speaker 3]
Colors?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you throw colored powder on people. Anyway... Kumbh Mela.

Nah, it's... You're welcome. I don't know, anyway.

Okay. And there's another flower called bijapudaka, okay? Bijapudaka.

And that's a flower, okay? And supposedly, if you smear the bud of this flower with lak juice before it opens, it will open into a separate kind of... Gesar marpo means red saffron.

Okay? Supposedly, if you take the chemical liquid lak and you smear it on a bijapudaka flower, it will produce red saffron, which is extremely valuable. It's probably an old wives' tale, but you might want to check it out.

So gesar means saffron, which is extremely expensive. Still expensive. So marpo.

Now, Sugeng. We've got lak liquid red stuff. We're smearing it on a flower, and it's producing saffron.

What do you think the parts of the example are illustrating? And by the way, it's the interaction between these two causes of consciousness. Oh, the kunshi, the foundation consciousness?

No, no, no. Consciousness as the third link. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Smeared with karma?

[Speaker 1]
Good. Say it right. Say it again.

[Speaker 2]
It has to be smeared with karma.

[Speaker 1]
What has to be smeared with karma? No, those three...

[Speaker 2]
No, the three things, the object, the self, and the consciousness.

[Speaker 1]
He's joining the two great examples. He's finding a common ground between the two great examples. What triggers consciousness?

The presence of kapse, the presence of the tongue, and the paying attention to the kapse. No, no, no. It's karma.

No, no, no. They interact. The three and the one interact.

If you have the karma to have kapse come in a box today, then your tongue... You see what I mean? Got it?

He says they work together. It's very interesting. This is Vasubandhu getting out of the whole problem.

He says, don't make it either or. Don't say either or. Don't say consciousness has to be triggered by karma.

And don't say it has to be triggered by an object and paying attention to the object. Why can't they work together? In the same way that we get lack, we coat, and what's the lack?

[Speaker 2]
The karma.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, the karma is coating the other part. And then they can do what they do. It's very beautiful.

Cool. Wow. And you think that was easy to figure out?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Now, here's his conclusion. Very, very interesting.

So again, who gets to read this short, easy sentence? I got lots of victims in this room, by the way. Okay.

Let's invite Venerable Gyeltsen to give us the recap. Okay. That puts me closer to the cup.

Say thanks again. We're here tonight.

[Speaker 2]
Daytar na gompa tade pey chir.

[Speaker 1]
Very good. Tade pey chir.

[Speaker 2]
Na chi gyelwa mey do.

[Speaker 1]
So again, go slow. You stay. That was too short for you.

What do you think it says? That was the gongba here, he says. Oh, I'm sorry.

The gongbas are tade. The gongbas are tade. The ideas?

No, gongpa. Yeah, the ideas are separate here. Separate, yeah.

When you say consciousness is triggered by three things, and when you say consciousness is triggered by one thing, it's with different viewpoints. It's two different viewpoints, okay? But, na means the first way, and chi means the second way, gyelwa mey.

Not contradicting, not contradictory. Why not let them support each other? Yeah, cool, wow.

Let the karma, and the fact that the cup said it came today, on seju, is it? Yeah. Well, that means I'm supposed to eat it.

Okay? Okay? And it's a beautiful wrap-up.

He says, what's your problem? Why can't they both be true? It's just like lack paint on the bud of the flower.

And Sugeng, what's the additional force of this metaphor? There's something beautiful here. In general, or just this one?

Well, I'd say about the result of the metaphor.

[Speaker 2]
Oh.

[Speaker 1]
What comes out of when you smear lack paint on this flower?

[Speaker 2]
Something incredibly precious.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, something very, very valuable. Something very, very valuable. And I think Gyelse is right.

I think he's saying it's a valuable insight to know that it was fresh karma that brought the cupse here. And these two presentations by Lord Buddha, they're not only not contradictory, they're amazing. They tell a story.

It's a beautiful story. Cool? It's transformative.

Cool. I love it. That's really cool.

Okay. By the way, we're about to start a super difficult section. And there's going to be a new debate.

And I just wanted to tell you guys roughly what the debate is, and then you'll be able to read the Tibetan easier. And unfortunately, we don't have the Sanskrit for this book. And there's no commentaries.

We're on our own. We're in the wild. And that's kind of why I like this text.

There's no help from anywhere. In all of John Brady's database, three million pages so far, so far, there's not a single sentence that can help us. And I kind of like the feeling.

Okay, so here we go. What about the deep meditation where you have no awareness? Okay?

It's called du shi me pe nyom juk. Say du shi.

[Speaker 2]
Du shi.

[Speaker 1]
Me pe. Nyom juk. Nyom juk.

There is a deep meditation called where you go beyond the mind. There is no mind. There is no consciousness.

Okay? There is no further consciousness. Okay?

In that case, what's true? What happens to the two triggers? What happens to the three components of the kapse example?

And what happens to the fresh karma example if mind blinks out? Suspended? Where do they go?

How can you have causes without a result? You know? Okay, now you've got this beautiful saffron thing.

Oh, it's so beautiful. But it doesn't work. Why?

Because there's times when consciousness blinks out. And there's plenty of karma. And there's plenty of objects.

So what's going on then? Okay? And he goes off.

Vasubandhu goes off. Here we go. Gyel Tse says she's dying to read one more, Sugeng.

Yes, please.

[Speaker 2]
Gyel Tse...

[Speaker 1]
Gyel Tse Tukye Kiyong Tsu Gupe Nampa Shepe Gyula Mae Ongpan Gyule Gyule Ma Ongpa Gyule Ma Ongpa Nam Mingdang Sugjungwar Gyurana Good, okay. What's Gyel Tse, Sugeng? Contradicting?

No, that's ngyel. Gyel Tse.

[Speaker 2]
If.

[Speaker 1]
If. Okay. If gyel tse, which means fresh karma.

If fresh karma. Now he pulls out the verb guh, which is very familiar to us from wordsmith text. Smearing.

Tim was smearing. Yeah, smearing. Okay.

And don't forget the last smear we had here was with the lac paint on the... So he said, okay, let's say you got some smearing here. Okay.

And the number shepa, link number three gets smeared by link number two. Okay. Then are you telling me that from those causes, from that cause, from putting the lac on the flower, putting the karma on the consciousness, that next, link number four, future, you're going to have ming and suk, namarupa.

Name and form. Yeah. Jungwar gyur.

Two future tenses here. Rung jungwar, rung gyur. Okay.

Fortunately, you guys know about prenatals. Jungwar, rung gyur. It's going to happen.

It's going to happen. What? Namarupa.

What is namarupa? Two guys in the boat. What's that?

Yeah. Body and mind entering the womb. If...

Okay, so the guy is setting you up. He says, okay, suppose you got link number two, which is the karma. Suppose it's sparing the awareness of link number three.

And suppose that's supposed to lead to link number four. Right? Yeah.

It is. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
And... Oh, okay. Don't worry.

You can do it. Okay, okay. All right.

Okay. Good. Good.

And now he gives two instances where he has a special case. He says, there's two special cases I want to discuss. If it's all sparing lack on flowers, what's the lack?

Fresh karma. Fresh karma. What's the flower?

[Speaker 2]
Consciousness.

[Speaker 1]
Consciousness. What's the saffron? Kind of name and form.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. All right. Then what about nyong duk?

Samma pati. Samma pati. What about samma pati, where there's no money?

What's samma pati? Balanced meditation.

[Speaker 2]
Balanced meditation.

[Speaker 1]
Balanced between what two things for ten cents? Balanced meditation. Balanced meditation.

Yeah, you got it. Just contact Rob for the money. Yeah.

I call it balanced meditation. Balanced where you have no mind. Samma pati.

Meditation is so deep, your mind goes away. And du shi me pa pa or du shi me pa wa. These are people who have gone beyond the ability to discriminate.

No longer discriminating. There's no high, low. There's no good, bad.

Their mind is beyond. Okay. Let's talk about those two states of mind.

Okay. The number shepas, gyun, is che. It's triple.

The flow. Gyun means the flow. Che.

It's cut. Like dorje chupa, like chinkan chepa. So, he says, then how are you going to get a number shepa?

Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Which is what?

[Speaker 1]
Which is all guhpa. Smeared by. By your duje lab.

By your fresh lab juice. There's no consciousness. There's no consciousness that gets smeared with your lab juice.

Okay. Got it? Cool.

He's like, what about that? What, the real life just stops? Is that the point?

Okay. I think we should let Gyelse go and pick on somebody else again. Okay.

Sure. I think I heard Rosa.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
She was begging to come up. Yes, please.

[Speaker 2]
The short one was for me. Not that. All right.

Get ready to stop her. Okay. Gan la.

Kan le. Kan le ma.

[Speaker 1]
Ong pana. Yes. Ming dang suke par.

Yes. Par. Nga ngin no.

Sen… Sem… Gesam pa.

Gesam pa de kyung de na dan. Good. Gyur do sen na.

Nice, nice, nice. Thank you. Yay.

Yay. So, it says, in the maong pa, again, in the maong pa, place without force, it's How is Ming and Su gonna kiewa? Going to arise?

Yeah. How are you going to get name and form? Where is it going to come from, gang le?

Where is it going to come from? There's no nam she. There's no Ling number three.

So where's the, tell me, you know, where is it going to come from? Where is the two guys in the boat going to come from if there's no monkey before it? Got it?

Kiewa gyur te, de negab kanyenpa na. What's there at that point? Sam, yupa mayin.

The mind's not, there's no Ling number three. How are you going to get Ling number four? Please tell me.

Okay? Who's asking? The other person.

Some other guy. Some other guy. And he says there's kiens with your explanation.

[Speaker 2]
Exceptions.

[Speaker 1]
There is problems. Problems. There's problems.

How do you say mayo and tea in Tibetan? Kien min du. Kien min du.

No problem. When somebody says kien min du, you know there's a, how's my car repair going? There's no problems at all.

Everything's fine. Dak gyur do. He says there's a problem.

There are people who have no states of mind. How can they have Ling number four? Now he's kind of moving on, isn't he?

We were spending all this time on Ling number three. And now he's like if there's no Ling number three, how are you going to get to Ling number four? Okay.

Okay, Rosa, don't yell at me. You can do it. I was going to call somebody else.

Oh, okay. That's a clever one. Dennis.

Dennis. Uh-oh. Here he comes.

Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Don't forget you're in control of the plane here. You got to control the cursor here.

Go slow. Go clear. Do, de, re.

Sugeng, you're correcting. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Go bay. Nyom, bar, ju, ba. Wa, sem, dong.

Yes. Che. Good.

Che. War, sum, bar, sum, de. Nice.

Go, ba, lay, la. Go pala. Nyom, bar, shug.

Good. Shug.

[Speaker 1]
Pa, ni, lu, ki, du, ye. Nj.

[Speaker 2]
Nj. Ma, gag, wa, yin, che.

[Speaker 1]
Nj. Nj. Nj.

[Speaker 2]
Nj. Nj. Nj.

Nj. Nj. Nj.

Nj. Nj. Nj.

Nj. Nj. Nj.

Nj. Nj. Nj.

Nj. Nj. Nj.

Nj. Nj.

[Speaker 1]
No. She, do, de, pay, chiar. Row.

Thank you. Okay. Stay here, because you might have to read another one.

Who knows? So what's dōdē? Say it again?

The other, the other sutra? Sutra? Yeah, dōdē just means...

I mean, you can translate it as the sutras, in general, sutras. Sutras. us talk about a gopay nyom juk.

Gopay nyom juk. The stopping of the balanced meditation? Yeah, it's a state of balanced meditation, samma parthi, which is called gopa, cessation.

Cessation meditation. Cessation meditation. But what has ceased during a cessation meditation?

The mind. The mind has ceased, okay? It's called gopay nyom juk.

It's called cessation meditation. Why? Because supposedly the mind has ceased.

And then he says, Sutra says, those states are samdang jepa.

[Speaker 3]
They do have a mind there.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, they still have mind. Mind is still functioning during mindless meditation. Who said that?

We do. Dode. Dode said that.

Yeah, this guy, yeah, this other guy or us, I don't know who's saying it, but say, look, you want to ask me about cessation meditation? Well, it's not. Got it?

Joke? You got the joke? Cessation of what?

Mind. Is not. Because Sutra says, samdang jepa.

You still have mind. You still have some mental things going on. So, by the way, for all the Zenies, excuse me, all the people who ever tell you that you're supposed to meditate about nothing, you can refer them to this sentence, okay?

No, no, Buddha said your mind should stop. Yeah, he said it has to stop and he said it doesn't.

[Speaker 2]
Got it?

[Speaker 1]
Okay, here it is. Unless Vasubandhu doesn't understand anything, who invented the Mind-Only School and recorded the Abhidharma School, but that's only half of Buddhism. Okay, samdang jepa sunte.

So, the Sutras say, according to who? According to Buddha. Vasubandhu.

Vasubandhu says, look, the Sutras say that during mindless meditation, you still have mind. And it also says, gopa la nyombar shupa. When you are in deep meditation, gopa, on the stopping of, I would say, how do you say that?

Obvious states of mind, or gross states of mind. Okay? Okay, while you're in that meditation, lug gi duje man gat.

Or the body and the fresh karma do not stop?

[Speaker 3]
The fresh karma of the body don't cease?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, or you could say the functioning of the body doesn't stop. Okay, even the body doesn't stop. Okay, lug gi duje man gat, in she jawa ne.

It says, it says, all the way from lug gi duje, okay, all the way from fresh karma involving the body, up to fresh karma involving the nyombar shupa. Yeah, this is a, it's everything from lug up to nyombar shupa. Everything from body up to mind, you, ma duwa.

That's not it. Yeah, it's not the case that you have absolutely no body and absolutely no mind. You have some, but it's subtle, only the subtle forms.

Okay, got it. Cool. So don't give me this thing that there's something wrong with the Wheel of Life.

And we can still have shellac. Got it? Seriously.

Okay, it doesn't destroy the shellac theory. And I thought you might like to go read the Sutras where they say that. And I got you some, I got you some two choices here, Sugeng.

Okay, wow. And I, I, I challenge you to go through them before your next class. And find the sentence, which supports this idea.

Okay, sure. The sentence you're looking for, again, is the one that suggests that during a mindless meditation, you still have mind. Okay.

And these are two sutras. Now, it seems more likely to me that he's quoting the Perfection of Wisdom, the second one, than that he would be quoting a rather, a less famous sutra, much, much less famous sutra. I suspect the answer is in the second one.

Okay. But that's, that's mixed nuts detective work. Now, I'm turning this discussion over to Master Sugeng.

All right. Thank you. And I'm bailing out because there's kapse over here and it is seichu, which means I can make it a religious experience.

Stopped here.

[Speaker 2]
19.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. All right. Sugeng, up to you.

I mean, you got Dennis here. Maybe he's got some ideas. So the next one will be the next two paragraphs.

Yeah. And you're gonna go through those bolded parts and find a sentence that, that helps prove what he said. What he said was, the sutras themselves say that during a mindless meditation, you don't not have a mind, body.

Okay. Okay. You're gonna prove it to us.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
All right. I'm moving up to you and, and Dennis and I'm bailing out. Okay.

Thank you, Geshe-la. Yeah, Dennis, what do you, what insight do you have? From this class?

[Speaker 2]
About a sleepy zen meditation? Well, you're, well, yeah, some, some things keeping you sitting upright. So you have to be like conscious and awake enough to stay sit, sitting.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, thank you. Okay. Thank you.

Thank you, Dennis. Anybody else from the audience have any idea? Maybe I can, I just felt that, I realized there, I noticed there's a pattern here in, in today's class, from the two ideas, Master Vasubandhu actually showed us that they are supporting each other instead of contradicting each other.

Contradicting, right? And if you remember, when we first started the book, when we were discussing the title, when we discuss about the first principle, I was very, I was kind of surprised and captivated when the master is saying that, that if you remember first principle, right, if this is here, that is here, if this happened, that happens, right? And Master Vasubandhu proved to us that, hey, these two are supporting each other.

They are not different ideas. So, and then now today we saw that he also proved to us that the, the ideas that seem contradictory are actually supporting each other. So I have a feeling that, and I think he also quoted an example.

In between these two, when he also showed us that two or a few ideas are supporting each other, and basically they are one idea. So I'm just thinking that maybe this is the pattern moving forward. I think one thing that I learned here is that there are, there might, there may be things which seem to be contradictory, but if we go deeper, we should be able to, the fact that they are presented together might mean that they are, they are basically the same idea.

They are just presented differently to support each other. So this is my feeling. So, yeah.

Anybody else has any other ideas? I saw a lot of text in the chat box. I'm not sure if anybody say anything.

I saw, yeah. Well, yeah, about the, what Venerable Gyelse mentioned just now about the something, the result is something precious. So using the metaphor of the shellac, the smearing thing to produce saffron, which is precious.

So I think in, if we were to apply this idea in life, we can bring it to, we can link that to creativity. So we might be able to find valuable things when we look beyond what is on the surface, like this case of the smearing. The smearing of the fresh karma on the consciousness to produce the body and mind, or smearing of the fresh karma on the sense power, sense objects, and the paying attention to produce the consciousness.

Yeah, it's innovation, right? Like Chloe would hear. So, yeah, those are what I get it from here.

Anybody else has any other insights? It's very quiet. Beside the homework time, the detective time is also quiet.

[Speaker 2]
I liked what you said about creativity, Sugeng. It's, well, it's clear. It's like, it's clear to me.

It's like, well, I'm conscious here. And then there's a sense power, like if you're looking at art and can see with your eyes. And so that those two things are dependent on me saying, oh, wow, that was really creative when I go up to help someone else, like, be happy about their creativity.

[Speaker 1]
Yes, thank you.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, Geshe Michael.

[Speaker 1]
Yes, Peter. Okay. In India, lacquer was traditionally used to make furniture last for generations.

[Speaker 2]
In India, lacquer was traditionally used to make furniture last for generations.

[Speaker 1]
So maybe the idea is that karma supports these other events through lifetimes. You see what I mean? Because kapsa only lasts for, in my house, like an hour.

[Speaker 2]
But, yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
The object, the object and sense power trigger for consciousness only lasts a few minutes.

[Speaker 2]
The object, the sense power trigger for consciousness only lasts a few minutes, but the karma lasts for lifetimes.

[Speaker 1]
Like shellac.

[Speaker 2]
Like shellac.

[Speaker 1]
Over lifetimes. Once you paint the other stuff. Wow.

Wow.

[Speaker 2]
Did you catch all that?

[Speaker 1]
Yes, I caught all that. Wow. Yeah.

So, so that means this smearing of karma to make many lifetimes can be good and can be bad, right? Can be good or can be bad. So, wow.

I think you're making an argument that it's always bad.

[Speaker 2]
I think you could make an argument that it's always bad.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, that's true too. In the context of the will. So the karma is creating many lifetimes inside the will, then, yeah, that is definitely bad.

Which means the first great deed of the Buddha was not.

[Speaker 2]
Which means that the first great deed of the Buddha was not bad.

[Speaker 1]
Was not a great deed.

[Speaker 2]
Was not a great deed.

[Speaker 1]
He was born into the world. Sorry, I don't get part.

[Speaker 2]
He was born into the world, right? And they just look for an alternative. If it wasn't good, like he was just saying, it wasn't a great deed of what he was saying.

It wasn't a great deed. But it must have been because it made me look for an alternative.

[Speaker 1]
The Buddha was pushed into his final rebirth by link number two.

[Speaker 2]
The Buddha was pushed into his final rebirth by link number two. So his karma from the last life.

[Speaker 1]
Therefore, the shellac is not always bad.

[Speaker 2]
Therefore, the shellac is not always bad.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, that's true, too. Because you need to hit the last rebirth in order to become a Buddha.

[Speaker 2]
I never thought it was bad.

[Speaker 1]
Well, I mean, there are two ideas here, right? On one hand, it's bad because it keeps you in the will. But on the other hand, only through this shellac pushing you to the next rebirth that you can get enlightened.

But on the other hand, we don't have to get rebirth to get enlightened, too. So that is another idea.

[Speaker 2]
We talked about the fact that there's not a meditation where our mind goes away. And even in deep states of meditation called cessation, that it's not an exception to the rule. We still have a state of mind.

What we didn't necessarily talk about is that state of mind in that meditation is also a consciousness that we would seek to cause. And so it seems to me that we have the object, truth. Truth is around us all the time.

The object is available. We have a mind. We have a faculty which is capable of perceiving that object.

And anyone here in this class also is turning their mind towards truth. It seems to me that now we just have to collect the karma. We just have to lather it up with karma.

We have to serve one another, serve the people here, serve the people in our lives, take care of the teachings. We have to act the actions that are the final ingredient needed to cause that state of mind.

[Speaker 1]
Let me repeat the three things that you mentioned. You are saying the truth.

[Speaker 2]
The sense that's the object, right?

[Speaker 1]
Uh-huh, uh-huh. The truth.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
I'm still a bit, sorry, I'm still a bit confused with this statement. The truth. Are you referring to the ultimate reality or just the...

[Speaker 3]
I am.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, okay. And then what is the second one? The sense...

[Speaker 2]
Well, the power. Yeah. What's the power with which we perceive ultimate truth?

Oh, wow.

[Speaker 1]
Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Mind we have. Maybe we can say yikinamparshepa, the mind, the faculty of mind, or yi, the mind itself. And we have this yilachepa, the turning the mind towards the object.

Especially everyone here. I don't know how to judge that with people in general. And maybe somebody here could be drunk or asleep.

But actually speaking, on Monday afternoon, evening, morning, wherever you are, you chose to direct your attention very intentionally. You signed into Zoom, you followed a link, you turned the mind towards higher things. So it seems that we have these three.

We're ready to go into that state of meditation, which is also a state of mind, which is not a lack of a state of mind, like other people might say when they get confused. It's not a lack of a state of mind. There is mind there, which means that we can cause that too.

And we have these three elements. Now we just need the goodness, the sweetness, the kindness, the karma.

[Speaker 1]
Choose to smear all these things. Wow, beautiful. Beautiful, man.

The love Venerable Pala said. Wow. Oh, it's cool.

Yeah, what a nice recap, man. Thank you very much. Yeah.

Beautiful. You look at all the hearts in the chat box. So, yeah.

I have... Okay. Oh, okay.

I thought Juan has something to say. But yeah, definitely he has something to say on the Peach Tree World News, right?

[Speaker 2]
Thank you, Sugeng. Thank you very much. Thank you for your hard work and homework.

Thank you, live translators. I know we're fast and difficult. And you put up with it and barely ever complain about it except when we deserve it.

And the complaining is necessary to get us to slow down. And thank you, Geshe Michael, for the class. And thank you, Juan Hasso, for standing by with the Peach Tree World News, ready to share exciting developments from our broader community of the loved and the loving.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you, Ben. And then after we go back to you, right?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, I'll be here.

[Speaker 1]
Great. Okay. So thank you very much.

It was... I really liked the discussion. I like this idea about maybe the will of life is not always bad because sometimes it's really painful that triggers renunciation.

Maybe.

[Speaker 2]
It's interesting.

[Speaker 1]
I don't know, really. But it's good to think about these things. Today, we have to...

We want to show you some events that are coming up. Just in case you don't know about them, you cannot complain later that you didn't hear about them. So if you don't go, it's not because you didn't know about them.

It's just because other things, other reasons. I don't want to blame you. Sometimes I can't go as well.

So I understand if you can't. But at least you're going to get to know. Okay.

So Gina, please, if you can help us sharing some of the events that are happening. Okay. So let's start with this.

Geshe Michael Roach is going back to Asia live. This year, after a few years, because, you know, the problems on the pandemic happened. He stopped going, but he's going to go again.

This is not yet the live events, but he's going to be teaching some online events as well. If you want, you can sign up to this. In March...

No, April, he's going to be teaching Automatic Leadership DCI Level 8. You can sign up if you're interested for that. He's going to be teaching on the 26th to 28th of March.

Sorry, April.

[Speaker 2]
And on the 4th and 5th of April. No, that's kind of high. May, yes.

No, but this is not the live event. This is April 26th to 28th online.

[Speaker 1]
Next picture, please. This is online. This is Impossible Anger as well.

He's going to be teaching, but this time it's going to be on August. August 9th to 11th, August 17th to 18th. August...

Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay, next picture.

But you can see what's planned. If you're interested, take some of these courses online. You can check them out.

Then he's going to be teaching Level 12, The Art of Gratitude. It's going to be happening on October from the 11th to the 13th, and then from the 19th to the 20th. Then finally, in December, he's going to be teaching a very special DCI Advanced Level 4.

We don't know yet what it's going to be about exactly, but it's a surprise. It's very exciting. He's going to be using some of the new content he has been translating to deliver an amazing, very cool course.

This is going to be happening December 20th to the 22nd. If everything goes as planned, sometimes things change. Well, they say always change, but 28th to 29th as well on December.

Okay, so those are the live events. Online events. We're also going to have in this world some live events happening.

Next picture, please. These two events are happening first in Shanghai, I think, and then in... Yeah, right?

I'm getting familiar with the characters. No, just kidding. Then in Shenzhen.

If you're interested and your Chinese is good, you can use the QR code and check it out. But it's very cool that he's doing tours again. Talk to the DCI team people if you're interested to assist.

I bet it's wonderful being there and very exciting being able to attend to these seminars. So at least now you know it's happening. This one is happening on April, the very first one, on the 21st.

And the other one, I think, is happening in July. All right. So yeah, but it's two, right?

Two different events. Four. Well, four online and two live.

Correct. Okay. So speaking of teachings in Asia and cool events happening, we want to invite with us Tim Lowenhaupt because he has a very cool plan for the next few weeks.

Actually, come. Thank you very much for being here with us, Tim. And tell us, what are you planning for?

What are your plans for March? What do you have on your schedule?

[Speaker 2]
Well, my first plan for March 1 is to bring the Peachtree World News to Kyoto. Peachtree World News. That's great.

Yeah. Yes. We got a sponsor in the audience.

Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Some people have mentioned a boat. So are you going to send me a boat?

[Speaker 2]
Well, I think we'll see. I think you'll have to leave tomorrow. Oh, to get that boat.

Yes, yes, yes. So what we're going to do is going to bring Juan Hasso, which everyone wants to see live. Thank you.

But what will happen when you go to Kyoto to meet Juan, right? I'm curious now. I don't know what's happening.

So, Juan, I'm going to turn it back on you. Okay. So remember when you asked me a year ago if I'm dating anyone?

I remember. Are you? Juan, we're not talking about me.

Oh, I thought you were going to give us some news. No, if you want to know about Juan's dating. Wow.

It's a very sad story. Maybe someone might want to come to Kyoto for the steps on the path to learn about all the things that could help someone in a relationship.

[Speaker 1]
That's very beautiful. I would want to go. Good.

[Speaker 2]
I'm wondering the same. Good. So we have a course coming up.

All right. And it's open to everybody. In the middle of March.

And we're going to be the first course on steps on the path. Steps on the path. And if anyone's interested in coming, we're going to be teaching all the courses.

There's 18 of them. And I know many of you are interested in more of the advanced courses. Gina, what happened to the QR code?

So the QR code is going up. But we're starting the whole series in March. And we're going to be teaching in Chinese directly on stage.

So if anybody wants to come from anywhere in the world, you're welcome. And Gina, if you can put that up, please. We would love to see the QR code.

I think she's working on it. Yes.

[Speaker 1]
But if there is a problem with the QR code, we can give her some. She made it. It's amazing.

So what do you have to do? Just scan the QR code. It's going to take you to the website.

[Speaker 2]
But that'll take you directly to the registration. And I think, Gina, there's one in simplified Chinese, too, for all of our Chinese audiences as well. But if you want more information, reach out to me directly.

And we can help get you registered. We'll be there in the end of March. And we're looking forward to seeing you.

And you'll get to see this guy, since he has such a sad, sad face.

[Speaker 1]
Maybe we can plant the seeds together to have a world where beautiful relations happen more often. And we'll learn the secret to that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Thank you. Thank you as well. Thank you very much.

Thank you for the invitation. Thank you, Michael, for the invitation. I'm so excited.

I'm happy. And we want to talk something else, because the time is not up. Oh, yeah.

That's the other QR code that you were talking about. Well, as you're familiar with very five famous goals, like this thing about the partner relationship is one of them.

[Speaker 2]
Well, all kinds of relationships, really. But that's one of them.

[Speaker 1]
But there is another one very cool that sometimes I don't really appreciate until I really need it. And it's physical health, just overall good health. Like just yesterday, I went to a yoga class, and I hurt my neck very bad.

I thought this so much, because it is true. We go to yoga because we want to be healthy. But sometimes you hurt yourself.

And then I start thinking, it forced me to think more about the deeper causes of when is this coming. Watch the translator. She's dying.

No, don't die. Let's use this next video to don't die. And we want to introduce you a very cool interview we had with Word.

[Speaker 2]
So let's go with the video.

[Speaker 1]
I meant to slow down. OK. We want to show you something very cool for improving your health.

[Speaker 2]
So Gina is going to play. Yes, thank you so much.

[Speaker 1]
So here we are again. With our friend, Dr. Word, AKA in the streets as the American Patanjali. But yesterday we had a chance to talk with you, Word, about traditional Asian medicine, Chinese medicine.

So yesterday you were talking about how this system is a little bit different than the Western, maybe more modern kind of system. It can be complementary. Or you will mostly recommend to stick only to one or the other.

[Speaker 3]
They definitely can be complementary. And they're using a complementary way in China these days, as far as what I'm aware of. So.

[Speaker 1]
And yesterday you were telling us how is it that emotions will affect our overall health. But but interestingly, like a very specific organ. Right.

How does that work? Why do you think is the connection between a very specific emotion to a very specific organ?

[Speaker 3]
Well, there's different ways to look at it. But I believe Western medicine believes the same to a degree. Like if I if I were to frighten you, your heart would start to race.

Right.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 3]
So it's not difficult to see that fright affects the heart or something like that. If you felt depressed, you would start like maybe having a posture like this. Right.

And that that posture would affect your lungs because this is where your lungs are. And so sadness or depression could very well affect the lungs, for instance. And, you know, Chinese medicine saying the same thing.

The great thing about Chinese medicine, it's it was the medicine in China for five thousand years. And it's important to remember, it's the only medicine they had in general. People don't want to die.

People want to be healthy. People want to be happy. So whatever they were doing, they did the most effective things that they knew.

You know, Chinese as as a civilization over 5,000 years is super advanced. One of the great cultural things from China is their medical knowledge. And these correlations, like with, you know, the heart being with fright or the lungs with sadness, the liver with anger comes from that thousands of years of knowledge.

Jinlo means the big channels, the big energy channels, the meridians and the little channels that connect them.

[Speaker 1]
What would you say is the connection between the yoga practices and this Chinese ancient medicine?

[Speaker 3]
A lot of the overlap that might have happened throughout the centuries is ancient knowledge and people don't know exactly what happened. You know, being people who want to help people often became doctors. And so people from India, some went to China, for instance, and there was trading back and forth.

And due to that, you know, the medical systems shared various aspects. And, you know, any good doctor is going to want to learn more. And so I think the main thing that makes them equal is that there is energy in our bodies.

You know, science as it is, has no real evidence for why life exists. It's not in the chemicals, right? If it wasn't the chemicals, you wouldn't die because the chemicals are there, right?

So there is something else going on, like some kind of life force. But once you're aware of that and you're actually tuned into that phenomenon, due to just being able to feel it, then there's tons you can do with it.

[Speaker 1]
So can you share with us some of the most amazing results, either yourself or other people get healed or help using these systems of medicine?

[Speaker 3]
Oh, I've seen hundreds of, if not thousands of amazing things occur. I know people that have had like tumors or like cysts and stuff. I've taught them how to get rid of those.

What about these kind of things like diabetes and like high blood pressure?

[Speaker 1]
And even further, like, you know, modern medicine sometimes has challenges like treating some forms of viruses and stuff like that. Does Chinese medicine has like an alternative or a proposal, let's say, how to deal with these things like, you know, these kind of sicknesses that may not have yet find a cure for them?

[Speaker 3]
A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Some of them aren't even that difficult.

It's because a lot of it's the way people think about it. If you think about it like some incurable thing, then it's some incurable thing. But Chinese medicine classifies sickness in different ways.

And under their various classifications, they know how to treat something that's classified as blank, as heat, as stagnation, as wind or something like that. So then they just treat that. They're not treating cancer or HIV or AIDS, rather, or diabetes or something like that.

They just treat it based on what they know. And since these treatments are tried and true, they just work. And a good doctor will adjust the treatment if it's not working based on what the patient, the client, is presenting.

So, yeah, my teacher has cured, I don't know, thousands of cancers, for instance. And it's just basic Chinese medicine in a way. You know, it's not something crazy.

But if you're coming from the Western model, the problem is you don't, like I said, science does not have any concept of the life force. Once you get into the life force, you start talking about something spiritual. And it doesn't have to be spiritual at all.

It's not. It's just life. That's it.

It doesn't have to be something weird or esoteric. It's just life. And if you're alive, then you have life.

And if you know how life moves, then you can cure sickness. And if you think you're just a flesh bag made of chemicals and food, then you can't.

[Speaker 1]
What kind of basic recommendations of principles you could give to people for life? Certain principles could they start applying right away to achieve these goals?

[Speaker 3]
Definitely first, there's like the top three. Check in with your body. How does your body actually feel?

Check in with your breath. What is your breath actually like? And check in with your mind.

What is actually going on inside your mind? So, starting to gain an awareness of what is actually happening to you. So, you're not just a set of symptoms.

It's your experience of life, right? Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you very much. Actually, Ward is going to start teaching a course on... Can you spotlight him super quickly?

He's going to be teaching a course on Chinese medicine soon. So, if you are interested and you want to learn more about these principles and how it works... Yeah, we want to show you a poster and we have to go to Ben's and Geshe-la's class.

So, we just want Gina to share the poster. And we're going to have... Sorry, Ward.

I know you're ready to share with us. And I'm sorry that time went off. But we will have you Saturday to talk more about this course.

But if you're interested to know, I'm very interested. I would like to learn more about these ancient medicine techniques to help people and have a good health. You can use the QR code.

Ward is going to let us know more about it soon. And we go to next class. Thank you, Ward.

My apologies with the timing.