Сугэн Ши — Книга 2: Колесо жизни (первый принцип и подразделения зависимости), занятие 58

[Speaker 3]
Hi. Amelie.

[Speaker 1]
Hey, Amelie, you have some fans here.

[Speaker 3]
Long time no see.

[Speaker 1]
Amelie, you haven't been at Mixed Nuts for a while. What's going on with you? Do you want to tell them anything?

Don't tell them about my lap, okay? Well, hi, everybody. It looks like it's that time, Saturday morning in Sedona Standard Time, another afternoon in Europe and Russia and midnight in Asia.

So thanks for everybody who's joining us from your respective time zones. And it's getting close to Christmas. We're going to take a couple days off.

Next week on Monday, we're going to be off for Christmas Day. So no Shuangzong Tower on Monday. And New Year's Day will also be off on the January 1st Arizona time.

So just take note. And we have an exciting team class again today. We're going to do Master Sugeng's text, and he's going to lead us through a discussion.

And I assume you've got your homework ready for us, Mr. Sugeng? Yes, I'm ready. Cool, cool.

I hope everybody's had a chance to check out the new Diamond Cutter Classics website. If you haven't yet, give it a look, see at diamondcutterclassics.org. And I don't know anything else we need to tell them up front, Ben?

Sounds good to me. All right, well, we can talk. Maybe we can talk later again about the book club we always do.

Maybe, right? And yeah, it's great to have everybody. Thanks.

Yes, thank you to all of our interpreters for doing the impossible. And thank you to the worldview tech team, Marina, Francisco, Alejaso, and all of you who are helping us to produce and archive these events. All right, Mr. Sugeng, take it away when you're ready. And we will chime in with sincere and sarcastic commentary. So, mix nuts. You ready?

Yeah. Okay, yeah. It's a team translation, although I was talking to Tim just now, Tim Lowenhaupt.

So, Tim, we are going to do team translation, but without Tim. I just got so confused. Yeah.

So, yeah, we are in Malaysia now. We are running ACI course 14. Okay.

Together with James, Connie, and Tim. Are you in Malaysia? Yeah, I'm Malaysian now.

So, I hope my network connection is smooth all the way, because we are in the mountain with pretty weak internet. Or rather, they don't provide internet. I have to use my hotspot, my mobile's hotspot.

Well, thank you for being prepared, Sugeng, with your hotspot. Yeah, they say that, hey, you want to do meditation. Yes?

They say you want to do meditation, so there shouldn't be any internet. I say, okay. Logical.

Okay, let's start with the homework. Daddy? Daddy?

Yes, Emily? You want to answer my homework question? No?

Everybody can see my screen? Yes, it's perfect. Thank you.

So, when Lord Buddha made different categories of consciousness based on the sense powers, what was the real intention? Why did he do so? Why did he have so many different categories?

I am wondering if anybody remembers this from almost six weeks ago. All right. It was to emphasize...

[Speaker 3]
I want to try. Oh, let me try first.

[Speaker 2]
I guess it is a kind of logic that we put things one by one and discuss it one after one.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, good try. It's like a logic. Thank you for trying.

I know it's 11 at your place, too. Who else wants to try? Who else wants to guess?

[Speaker 3]
Is it related to the Bodhisattva Bumi?

[Speaker 1]
No, no. No, I don't know. We never talk about it.

We never talk about that. All right. It's something to do with each of them is a collection of parts.

Oh, no, no, no. Yeah, we talked about that. But that is not the reason for the different groups.

Capacity of the audience. Yeah, Laura, pretty close. And I would say, no, yeah, pretty close.

But the reason given by Master Vasubandhu is kind of interesting. So, let's take a look. What did he say?

I need to do this. Locations. I don't know why Master Vasubandhu said location.

It depends on the audience in different locations. Of course, depending on whom you are teaching. So, yeah, Laura is pretty close, right?

Capacity of the audience. So, Lord Buddha sometimes said that there were six and sometimes eight, depending on locations. He told the mind only that there were eight and six to the other people.

And it is not the nature of consciousness to be either six or eight. And of course, Master Vasubandhu added that there were some students that he didn't teach anything, meaning that there is not even on this consciousness at all. So, it's interesting.

And I think we are kind of lucky we got to know both. What did you mean by location? I think Upala was asking too.

Do you mean location like?

[Speaker 3]
No, no, no. I'm just saying he did say location, but I'm saying is it might be because of this location in terms of philosophical capacity of who's in the room.

[Speaker 1]
Makes sense. Uh-oh. Don't question his homework or he'll jam up his internet signal.

[Speaker 3]
You might want to turn off your video, Master Vasubandhu.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, he's frozen. Whoa. Oh, well.

So, you're saying, Upala, that Master Vasubandhu said location? Yes. Okay.

Yeah. Like Nepal or something? Oh, let's see.

Oh, no, don't worry. We'll just...

[Speaker 3]
Dad, I'm tired.

[Speaker 1]
Sorry. Nay, location. Nay, yeah.

Oh, that is interesting. I wonder what he... I'm struggling to remember this particular passage, but it's interesting, right?

Because it's not like people in Kashmir were mind only while people in somewhere else were midway. I mean, maybe, but that doesn't seem to be well documented. I wonder what we mean by to some he taught nothing also.

Does he mean when to the first turning that we taught six and to the third turning that we taught eight and did he teach nothing to the second turning or is he referring to something else? Yeah, I was kind of thinking that too. Yeah, I'm...

But to some people, maybe he just taught, you know, morality or something and he didn't talk about... Types of consciousness. Exactly.

Right. That makes sense too. Okay, so we're going...

Yeah, sorry. My network just gave way. More powerful networks.

Now, give way to the force of nature. Okay, so why do you say collections of consciousnesses when you are talking about the six and not for the eight? Why do we say, why do we say collection of consciousness?

So apparently it's... Yes, Jessica, I want to try to answer this question. Do it.

This term is answering questions.

[Speaker 3]
Give it a try, Jessica. Yes, as I remember, it said in each consciousness is a collection. Yes.

Like not only single consciousness, but each consciousness is a collection.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I think he was emphasizing that it was built of moments, right? That sounds right. Yeah, and Utpala said that.

I'm still stumped though why he would not say that for the eight if he would say that for the six.

[Speaker 3]
Right. Daddy?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I think...

[Speaker 3]
He's asking why they didn't use it for the eight, right?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, that was my question, but let me look at my answer. It was in words text. I remember that.

Could you scroll so we can see the rest? Good, sir. Sorry, it's indicating the divisions according to the object of the consciousness.

Oh. The object. And even if it were done by all the objects, they would get too many.

So instead of saying the consciousness of the blue, the consciousness of the red, etc., we can just say the consciousness of the eye. Every perception is a collection of stuff. Each consciousness involves the collection of parts.

And we are not trying to use the word collection for anything other than the consciousness. This is what I got from the text, but apparently it seems to be missing the reason why it is only for six rather than for the eight. I think it's because there's no external object in the mind.

Yeah, I think that's logical, too. It's pretty cool. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, I like it. Yeah, I like that too. Thank you.

It is said that consciousness occurs relative to the two. Outgoing, which is common cause, and ingoing, which is uncommon or unique cause. What are they?

Anybody remember? Wow. Let me see.

The eye is the common cause of perceptions of blue and so on. This is... The sense power would be the common cause of the perception of a visual object.

What is the uncommon one you were saying just now? Yeah, I'm not seeing in my notes where I have uncommon. Okay.

Sorry. Oh, the going out and the coming in? Yes.

Yes. Come on, some more. Close.

[Speaker 3]
Can I add something? Yes, please.

[Speaker 2]
I want to try. Yes, please. Common cause, which is the shared cause, outgoing, example, blue color.

Everyone sees the thing is blue color, that is common cause, whereas unique cause is ingoing. Example is my feeling on the blue color is different with the feeling of another one, another person.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Pretty close. Pretty close.

Yeah. So what we discuss in the book is the for a common cause, the eye sense power is the shared perception of those things, colors, blue, et cetera, going out. As for the unique cause, internally, it triggers a unique single consciousness.

We haven't touched on the feeling yet, but yeah, this is just like internal trigger. Thank you. Now the Tibetan words.

STW, what is tunmeng? I don't remember. I know all these are common.

Maybe one of word students knows this one. I mean, I don't have new words. All these are common words.

So I hope people remember. Oh, that was a good... He just gave you guys a hint too.

He's just giving you guys a hint. Did I? That was good.

You didn't even mean to. I'm just trying to be helpful. You know, we are talking about lojong in ACA 14, so I have to practice what I'm preaching.

Common words. I don't have new words. All these are common words.

So what does tunmeng mean? Would you say that these words are shared both with the mixed nuts and people who barely know Tibetan? Yeah, in general, common.

You are right. Yeah. Okay, next one.

Manyam. Also. Manyam.

Yeah. You know, we are learning all these amazing texts, especially when I am here doing ACA 14. I've been telling people that all these are...

We can trace all this back to the Lord himself, you know? So I hope that can help you a bit on the manyam. Yongnick?

Say yeah, please. Yongnick. Yongnick?

No, not Yongnick. All the teachings that we have, which is being compiled into... Or rather, which have been compiled into ACA.

In a set of, basically... Unspoiled, yes! In English, we call them unbroken, not corrupted.

Nice. Finally, the most common term, or rather term that we use in the world, Keceduk. This is one of the links in the will.

Yes! Wow, Inna, you aced. I'm going to give this lady six dollars.

Six? Yeah, maybe 60 is more... What do you call that?

It's more appropriate, right? That's right, because each of the six is also a collection. All right, yeah, 600.

Yeah, anyway. All right, so this is the homework. Thank you.

Move on to the other one. Okay, let me stop share, and then I move to the other ones. Okay, the nature of my text is interesting.

Meaning that Geshe Michael put a lot of notes. So I try to match the Tibetan to the notes, and they are pretty... Well, I mean, without his notes, it's impossible for me to decipher, but with the notes, I think I sort of can get his meaning.

So I need the seniors to help me verify that they are consistent. You do indeed have a difficult text. Would you be willing to help us a little bit?

Just to set the scene where we're at. What came just before this? We baby translators might need this even more than usual today.

Okay, let me briefly go through. It has been six weeks. I know, I had difficulty too.

I had difficulty too. Thank you. So let me go through the appropriate junction so that we can review it together.

There was something about someone coming along and saying, there's a sutra that talks about this, right? Yeah, that is. Yes, and also there is a topic about in the wheel, the fresh karma triggers the consciousness, but in reality, the senses are the ones that trigger the consciousness.

So which one is correct? So this is the point. So let me see here.

Ah, this is the thing. This is the point where, let me go back to this point where when Master Vasubandhu being a mind only people, being a mind only, mind only-er, he was saying that if you only learn the six collections of consciousness, you are learning the literal, the surface, the preliminary understanding. But if you want to go deeper into the topic, you have to understand that Buddha has something deeper implied, meaning I think he's hinting us, pointing us to the eight, the eight conscious or seventh and the eighth.

Yeah. And then, yeah. So this is where the location things come in.

So when Lord Buddha made different categories of consciousness based on the sense power, he told the students, depending on the audience in different locations, yeah, there's a note here depending on whom you are teaching. It is not the nature of consciousness to be either six or eight. So I have a footnote here.

Yeah. Obviously, yeah. So the location here refers to the people he's teaching.

And then of course, there were some students that he didn't teach anything. So why do you say collections of consciousness when you are talking about the six and not for the eight? So I think we talk about it just now.

The collection is used to indicate the divisions according to the object. And not, it is not, it is done by collections, but not by the objects. Otherwise they would get too many.

So, yeah. And then I put this italics to indicate the other person, to indicate the other person. Yeah, slow down.

Okay, I'll slow down. If it was the case that you name each consciousness from sense organ that it relies upon, then why do you say collections of six? Each perception is the collection of stuffs.

Each consciousness involve the collection of parts. So we know this already, right? So in that case, you should not call it collection of six consciousness, consciousnesses.

And why don't you call them the collections of eye consciousness, the collections of ear consciousness, up to the collection of mind. And we discuss in the homework questions that, oh, and then the master said that I already told you why we are using the word collection. And there are two opinions.

Collection of six consciousness and each of the individual consciousnesses collects many parts. So this is basically a collection of parts. The collection of many parts, I guess is what you want to say.

Maybe this is obvious, but why would you say the eye consciousness is a collection of parts? What are the parts of the eye consciousness? So the parts here refers to the objects of the eye consciousness.

Okay. So for example, each of the objects I see in my room, we could say I have an eye consciousness for each of them in a sense. And these would be the parts of the greater collection of eye consciousness, something like this.

That is my understanding. Okay. Okay.

Thank you. That's my understanding so far. Yeah.

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Thank you for summarizing it. Yeah.

So here, and then the master continues to say that I'm not trying to use the word collection for anything other than the consciousness. Yeah. Okay.

So I put this as italic again. If you don't want to call each consciousness as a collection of parts, why do you want to name the six consciousnesses by the sense power that they depend upon or used to see the outside world? Consciousness of visible things will make more sense than calling it consciousness of the eye.

So this is argument from the other person, right? And we say we prefer to call it the consciousness of the eye because it depends on the eye to see the outside object.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
We call the consciousness by the sense power in each case up to the mind's consciousness rather than what they focus on. So this is our conclusion. Okay.

Yeah. And then. Yeah.

This is where we talk about. No. Okay.

Let's just read. Tracy had a question in the chat. If you don't mind me clarifying, because I was confused about this in the homework also.

And I think Utpala actually clarified it for me in the homework. Tracy was saying, well, why wouldn't we say there's a collection for the seventh meaning or the seventh or the eighth? If we talk about the six as being collections, why wouldn't we put that emphasis on the seventh or eighth?

And I guess it's not that we're saying that the seventh and eighth aren't a collection. So much as we're saying that in the mind only school presentation of eight consciousnesses, they wouldn't emphasize the first six as being collections because the mind only school doesn't believe that outside objects really exist. And so does that make sense to you?

Is that why you would say the mind only school wouldn't consider, wouldn't talk so much about the eight consciousnesses as collections as they would in terms of the six? Yeah. I kind of like Utpala's answer about the mind only doesn't sort of recognize objects outside.

And since we are working mostly on the foundation consciousness and the mess up consciousness in mind only, and they are mostly in the mind. Therefore, I would say that even that both seven and eight are not collections. Right.

And even one through six in the mind only school, it would almost be strange to talk about those as collections because one through six are in effect also an expression of the foundation consciousness itself. One through six is not dependent on a variety of external objects because the mind only school doesn't accept a variety of through external objects. It's all mostly your mind doing its thing through the mode of seeds in the foundation consciousness.

Totally agree. Totally agree. Thank you.

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for clarifying this point.

Okay. Let's continue. And the other person come to tell us again, if something is consciousness in so far as it distinguishes between things like feasible forms, hearable forms, smellable forms, etc.

Then why don't you call it consciousness of feasible forms up to the consciousness of things in general? So this is referring to consciousness number six, right? And we are saying, we are using the sense power to name the consciousness because they are the principle trigger of the consciousness in both the common connotation and the uncommon connotation.

It is because there is just one set of eyes as compared to the objects. So we went through this already. And of course, for the common cause, the eye sense powers, the shared perception of blue, etc.

Going out. And then for the unique cause internally, it triggers a unique single consciousness. So this is my question number three in the homework.

And we will apply this on up to the awareness of the thoughts. And we're talking about triggers here. Sugeng is still in this question about what triggers consciousness.

Traditionally, we would say consciousness is triggered by the eye because you see something, you see an object in your world, you see the color blue, for example, and then that hits your eye and your eye sends a message to consciousness and that triggers a moment of consciousness. But in the wheel of life, the trigger is fresh karma. So we somehow are trying to, I guess the crux of this moment in the text is we're trying to settle this discrepancy between what maybe all the world would normally say or even what the lower schools would normally say, which is consciousness is triggered by you saw something as opposed to consciousness is triggered by a fresh seed, a deed.

Yeah, that is the question that was left hanging six weeks ago. But before that, there is another point that the master will insert here. So let's go through, right?

So these are the two common cause and uncommon cost, the outgoing and the ingoing. So when we say that there is a correlation between the sense partner and these objects, we can say that it's good to review, right? I'm missing lots of words.

We can say that there is a correlation between the eye and physical forms on up to the mind and the thoughts. Okay. And however, mentioned in some places that name and form can trigger awareness.

Furthermore, all the hips that involve awareness depends on the body and mind as a unit. Okay. This gets even more crazy.

And then in another quotation from the ancient scripture about how consciousness is triggered, how does it fit into our discussion so far? So this is the, this is what Ben just summarized to us. But now, and then we come into this, we dig, the master actually dig deeper, right?

And then he, this other guy quoted Arya Sariputra. Let's say that the inner sense power has not been damaged. And let's say that an outer form appears to that eyeball.

The scripture says that when there is in addition, an associated act of attention, then you will have an awareness of the outer form. A sense consciousness will be triggered. And of course he's continued to say that it's the same up to the mind consciousness.

And he continued to say the other texts talk about attention here in the dependent sutra. The second link of first karma is the trigger of the third link of consciousness. Are these two not contradictory?

Is it not rather the case that attention triggers consciousness, which is pretty commonly understood outside. And we stop here.

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Okay. Okay.

All right. Well, here we go then. Oh, so how should I put this?

They are separate. They are different. Yeah.

They are different. Right. Yeah, I guess the intent is the same.

Word, Nick, I would Paula, you guys got to help us here. But I guess Tadepa right would mean different. So what the implication here is that they are different or they're not different.

What do you think? In order to establish that the true intent was that they're different. Okay.

Just in order, something, maybe not established. The one, maybe because they are. And it's object, the one bow and the the thing it sees ascertainment of the object.

Great. Yeah, the one bow and the object ascertained by the consciousness, consciously, the six consciousnesses. Yes.

They, what? Yeah. They give rise to the six awarenesses, the number ship I drew.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
But that's that's ascertain again. They they definitively demonstrate they show. Yeah.

I wonder if it's playing with the word here a little bit. I think so. They certainly ascertain.

Okay. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. I'm going to get to the end here.

[Speaker 3]
For example, a cup that we see have whiteness and roundness.

[Speaker 1]
I didn't catch it. I'm sorry. She's saying a cup, a cup that we see as whiteness and roundness like.

Yeah.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
So through that or by those two reasons. Right. We would say what those are both causes for the number ship for the awareness.

Is that what you take this to be saying? So, so, so it is said independence upon these two reasons.

[Speaker 3]
But it doesn't say reasons.

[Speaker 1]
Well, just because we have cheer and cheer, I don't know of these two things, meaning what the. Power and the object depend upon each other. That's what it's saying.

Okay. Yeah. The sense power and the object.

Yeah. The sense power and the ascertainment of that object are independence on upon each other. Independent.

Independence. Independence. Okay.

Yeah. Okay. And so Casey, Michael gave us a note here for himself, I'm sure.

But perhaps for us all to try to help us that these ideas here are separate, but that the point is to understand when we establish the sense power and the object, the eye and the thing it's seen, we are showing how the six consciousnesses arise. And so consciousness depends on the two, not just the objects outside, but also the, the eye.

[Speaker 3]
Mm hmm. Hey, we weren't too far off.

[Speaker 1]
Calling earlier the common and uncommon, the common and uncommon or the incoming and outgoing. Okay. Are those two?

Are we referring to those two? Well, were those the, were the eye and the outer object, were the sense, were those the common and uncommon? Yeah, I would think so.

Right. So, okay. And is that the same as the incoming and the outgoing?

We were just talking about the two things being contradictory. Apparently, what is triggering an active consciousness? Is it an object or is it attention?

That was the question before this, right? Okay. So consciousness depends on both the object seen and the sense power that sees it.

And then I think we're going to linger on this point for a little bit, Sugeng. So I think we're okay to go on a little. Yeah.

Because apparently there is a summary below. Yes. So, so basically this is the verse and it's kind of interesting.

Ngāpon niti wangpon nam, kang ki dun ni te dak ni, kang te nyi ni, tun te nyi, thuk pe ke che nyi yin no. So if I were to copy the notes from Geshe-la, the five follows the two. So he put a notes here of powers and objects.

Five means those related to the sense organ and are related to those powers objects. Kang ki dun te dak ni. And then there is something that takes those as an object.

And that is the sense door of the six. So a total of two. So, kang te nyi ni, tun te nyi.

Wow.

[Speaker 3]
This is confusing.

[Speaker 1]
In general, it's caused by Duce Kile. This is where the first kamma came in, right? Yeah.

Second link. Yeah. The second link.

And that is the sense door of the six. Five follows the two.

[Speaker 3]
Oh, wow.

[Speaker 1]
Powers and objects. Okay. Okay.

So there are five sense consciousnesses and each of those five consciousnesses takes an outer object. And then those inner objects then are taken. Then there's a state of mind that takes on those objects that can think about the consciousness of those.

There's an outer object, there's the eye that sees the outer object. And then there's an awareness of what the eye has seen. And the sixth consciousness, as was asked in the chat, thinks about the awarenesses of those other five objects.

Yeah. Well, it seems to be saying that the sixth one thinks about the awarenesses as well as the objects. Is that what you just said?

No, but I'll take it. Okay. It seems to be saying that it thinks about everything.

Okay. That makes sense, right? That the sixth consciousness may think about the color blue, may think about my coffee cup, but also only the sixth consciousness can think about my thought of a coffee cup?

It seems like it's going everywhere except there, right? Like the sixth consciousness thinks of your eye and the coffee cup. And maybe he's going somewhere where he's going to talk about how it connects the eye to the coffee cup.

But it seems like it's saying it thinks about that you see something and it thinks about the thing that you see and that you smell something and the thing you smell, blah, blah, blah. And it doesn't... Hold on.

Total of two. Let's decipher again. Ngapo ngini, wangpo nam.

Ngapo ngini, how would you say this? How would you translate this? Wangpo nam.

Wangpo nam refers to the powers? Mm-hmm. Yes.

Well, it refers to the powers and their object, I believe. The five mean the five do's, you see? Ngapo ngini, I think, means the coffee cup and the eye seeing the coffee cup.

It means the song and the ear hearing the song. It means the rose and the nose smelling the rose. You see, I think these are the five.

That makes sense for the construction here, ngapo ngini. And I was confused about why Geshe Michael said the five follow the two. It's almost like he put the ngi on the other side of the ni.

He put the word two differently than the Tibetan seems to be saying, which is, I mean, he knows something that we don't know about what's coming. I think so. Yeah, I suspect that too.

But yeah, so if you're just reading this alone, how would you make the sentence? Ngapo ngini, wangpo nam. The two fives.

The two fives, right? The two fives, that is what I'm referring to. The two fives, powers.

Our powers. Yeah. Kind of, but yeah, that wouldn't make sense.

Exactly. Our powers. Okay.

Remember what Geshe Michael said, by the way, everybody, that if you don't understand it, it's doing something very powerful to your mind. Thank you for joining us in this Mixed Nuts class. The harder it is, the more you need to hear it.

Tell all your friends to join now. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for the encouragement, words of encouragement.

How would you translate this? The meaning of like, how would you translate? It seems to be very contextual.

There's no way to just translate this sentence on its own. So it's a futile exercise. Whatever object, these themselves.

I think the gang is like, yeah, is whichever sense power relates to any of those objects. You see, they got me sort of like there, there is one for each of these. They're, they're just the same.

Meaning that each of these objects has a sense of power that relates to it. And I, by the way, the, it goes and then it's not, it's one line. It, the line doesn't stop at the nom.

So it's broken. Yeah. Two sets of fives, the powers, and then whichever object relates to each one of those powers, me, those are them.

And then yeah. Yeah. As for the two sets of five, Wong Po Nam and Kongi Dun.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Oh, Wong Po Nam and Kongi Dun.

And then, and then there is what got the next gang, then there is what takes that as its object. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah.

The first two lines are saying in general. And yeah, whichever power, whichever object, and then pertaining only to those, those each that relate directly to a, a power and its object, like as it, as it ascertains, as it takes something. Isn't it saying the object of those, or that, you know, or that first Kong is the Wong Po and then the second is the Dun.

Kong De Ni, those Wong Po's exclusively Dun De Ne take an exclusive object. Yeah. And there isn't.

Yeah. I think I see what you're saying.

[Speaker 2]
And then this, the sixth, there is a, a two for the sixth as well, Drupad K'yeche, the sixth consciousness.

[Speaker 1]
Right. What are the, what are the object and the power for the sixth consciousness? The consciousness, it's, yeah, the consciousness and the, and thoughts, right.

Meaning they don't have an outer object. The sixth one doesn't have an, yeah, exactly. And can we summarize it?

Yeah. The whole discussion, I'm lost. Hmm.

It's just saying how each, each sense, each power has a, has its own object. Right. And there's two sets of five and each power has its own specific object.

But as per the sixth of, of them, they not only take that it not only has its own object, but it takes as its object consciousness in general, which is all six. Consciousness takes them as its object. Right.

[Speaker 3]
That's what I'm saying.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Right. Right.

And that's K'yeche and Michael's note here, right? There are 10 things, right? 10 things just got mentioned in the first two lines.

There are five objects and five sense powers. And then in the third line, there is something that there is something that takes that as its object, meaning those 10 as an object. And that's probably why it's making this distinction of saying these each have their own specific objects.

And then this, this one, like, rather than having its own specific object, just takes all this stuff. Yeah. Both of them, both the guns and the both.

Right. Yeah. Yeah.

It's, it phrases it as two. Yeah. Those two, those two, meaning the five, the two sets of five.

Yeah. Yeah. Hard.

Well, we kind of did a thing. It's actually confusing the way it's for us. It was kind of confusing the way it's split up here.

Yeah. For all of you watching 200 people, we did a thing just now. We did.

Wow. Wow. Amazing.

Yeah. Thank you very much, everybody. Let's see.

We've got, we've got eight minutes. Let's use them. Okay.

Let's use them. Everybody try to think of ways to apply this to your life. As we will discuss.

So, is what attention? Isn't that the, yeah, the ability to direct the mind or attention? Attention makes sense.

It's not, it's not divided, right? Because it's the general condition for all, for all situations. So there's some division that we don't make.

If I'm understanding for the, is this for the sixth consciousness, essentially? Yeah. It seems like it.

Because he was just talking about that. There's not like physical objects for that. But, but he wouldn't be referring to the sixth consciousness as Ila Chepa.

I don't think. Does that ever happen, Sugeng? No, I've never heard of that before.

His cheek and also, and, and word, you might have to chime in on this. I think it was in your text. She can is a specific thing, right?

It's not just saying like general condition and a chicken is one of the types of causes. It's not, it's not one of the four conditions. Okay.

Okay. So it does mean general, just general condition, I guess, or we'll see. Okay.

Can I move on? It's for attention provisionally. Yeah.

I think it's, as per directing of the mind, speaking of that specific mental function, it, it does not, it does not divide between classes. It, it does not, it, it's the general condition by which all things are looked at. You see what I'm saying?

Yeah. Why are we talking about it now? Yeah, that's, I'm wondering if Ila Chepa, Ila Chepa is referring to it.

I don't know why we jumped to it, but I don't know why we jumped to it. Yeah. Okay.

Ila Chepa seems to be referring to something specific that maybe he didn't clarify yet. Well, let's see if the next line helps. This is the paratrooper thing, right?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Then let's send our troops in behind enemy lines and see if we can conquer this line by going over it. Yeah. Yeah.

So Wangpo Dangdun Yitthu Sinkyangde Kendi Takpayinla Chepamepe Chir Nampasepa Kheo Shetenpe Chedu Yila Chepe Kenkyang Sungso. Okay. Okay.

So Wangpo Dangdun, right? The sense power and its object to sin, like if it wasn't there, or even if it wasn't there, perhaps if it wasn't there. As per its apprehension, if you're apprehending, if there is a process of apprehension between the sense power and the object, Wangpo Dangdun Yitthu Sin.

Isn't it more like even while you're apprehending it? No, I don't think so. It now it's going to go further into it with the kyang.

Okay. Read on. Let's see.

Well, then what wouldn't be created? It would not bring something about, right? It would not.

Yeah, it would not. It would not. I feel like that should be Yila Chepe.

Is that a mistake?

[Speaker 3]
Uh-huh. That would make more sense.

[Speaker 1]
That would sure make sense. Yeah. And I cracked the last sentence, too.

I think I was right. I didn't read Geshe Michael's note. It is what I said.

It's saying the process of directing the mind does not require any specificity. It can do it in general. It doesn't matter.

And now he's going to specifics on it. Sugeng, would you make this mark in your text where it says Yila Chepe? I think he did it already.

Oh, you did. Oh, did you? Oh, good.

Oh, great. Okay, good. Let me put a double question mark to be clearer that it's not from Geshe Michael.

Oh, he... Yeah, I don't think he ever uses any question marks on that. He doesn't use question marks in a room.

So it'd be clear. Yeah. Okay, so just put question mark, right?

Yeah, I think that's fine. Although there are some coming up. Sorry.

Not in these contexts. Word you were going to say? Yeah, so yeah, this is what he's saying.

He's saying that apprehension that occurs, that perception that occurs between the sense object and the power, Kyang, also, as that arises, it is not something that's necessary to be examined by the direction of the mind. Takpa Yila Chepe Mepechir. Okay, yeah, that makes sense.

It's an arisal of the consciousness. Nampa Chepe Keo She. That's what it's saying.

That's what it's... And then it's just reinforcing. That's what it...

When talking about the condition of directing the mind. Yeah, therefore, Tempe Chedu, in terms of its presentation, in terms as it shows itself, Ila Chepe Ken Kyang Sung, the directing of a mind is a supporting condition as well. And that is just reinforcing the last statement.

And yeah. Okay. Oh, wow.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you, team.

Okay. So we're talking about Yila Chepe here to clarify, just because while there is a connection between the arising of a consciousness and an outer object, you have to sort of direct your mind towards it. A thing can occur in the outer world, if we accept it in outer world, there could be an outer object, at least in the lower schools, even if the mind only school doesn't accept that.

And there's a sense of power, being that thing, but there has to be some directing of the mind towards that object in order for it to be a trigger for an awareness, a consciousness of that object. Is that the idea? Yeah.

And then it's saying that the text is kind of clarifying that the text is actually saying that there doesn't need to be a directing of the mind and that it just arises. Oh, yeah. That seems to be the clarification here.

I think direction of the mind is, yeah, it's not required for the object to be apprehended in the first place. Wangpo Tangtung Yudzin. I guess I'm reading Gish and Michael's note here differently.

Even if the sense power and the objects are present. Which is that it is necessary. Yeah.

It will not occur without the exploration of the turning of attention, which is, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that is different than what we... And so it seems to be important to mention the attention, turning the mind towards an object.

However, it's not a thing that has further divisions we had in the previous line that we were unclear about. We're not going to divide between different types of turning your attention towards the object because it's sort of the same activity for everything. However, it is a necessary trigger in order for consciousness to arise.

Yeah, right. If you don't direct your attention towards it, you won't see anything. There won't be anything.

Yeah, right. Yeah, that is. But there's only one negative particle in there, so it's confusing.

I think the Qiong is an even... Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Yeah.

Right. Sugeng, is there any hope here for applying this to our lives in any way? Sugeng and anyone in the world here, we lost...

I think we've lost the ability to make relapse now. This might mess us up for all texts. No way.

[Speaker 3]
I'm joking.

[Speaker 1]
We always find a way. Yeah, so what did we learn today? And we have not really come to the solutions, the answer.

Why the will is asserting that fresh karma is the trigger for consciousness. Well, we didn't get to that, but what we did discuss today... No, but what we did discuss today was the way...

which might be interesting fodder for further discussion and to make us think about how this affects us today. Maybe it has something to do with how the mind, the sense consciousnesses, and consciousness in general are connected to their objects in order to arise. And that might be something interesting to think about.

Is there perception without blue or is there any hearing without a beautiful song to hear it? If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? Somebody's...

Katharina's got something. Oh, forget it. That's not it.

Oh, okay. Yeah, that's from you, Nick. I like this tension that we're struggling through at this point in the text between what is the the trigger for different states of mind.

Is it something outside of us or something inside of us? This is the great struggle, the great tension between the different philosophies in ancient India. How much of the world is because of what's coming at us and how much of the world is because of what's coming from us?

And of course, this is what this text is struggling to identify here. Is it the outer world that's triggering my frustrated thoughts? Is that the trigger or is it karma?

Is it deeds? Is it the way I react to the things that I'm seeing? And it seems natural for us to get obsessed with the outside world to blame the outside world, of course.

But it seems that this is the crux of the distinction between the lower school and this higher school, even if it's not necessarily the highest school. But as we move from this presentation of six consciousnesses to this presentation of eight consciousnesses, we're loosening this focus on the outer world and trying to bring closer attention to our inner world, the way that one emotion leads to another emotion, our reaction to an emotion leads to the next emotion. And that we may be fooled into thinking these are forces happening outside of us, but the higher schools, the subtle part of the teaching says that it's not something outside of us.

That's some force inside of us.

[Speaker 3]
And this is the independent branch of the middle way school, correct?

[Speaker 1]
It seems like it's kind of like mind only leaning toward independent. So in the independent school, we talk about, there has to be, there's something coming, there is some identity of an object, that there's a piece of it that's coming towards you. And then there's a piece of that identity coming from you.

And it takes those two to tango. So an external object triggering, it can't trigger unless there is the karma for you to be triggered that way, right? To see the object that way.

Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah.

If you see a Gibson's comment in the chat box is kind of interesting. We need to see the movie. Yeah.

So in the movie, basically Eddie Murphy's mind has a cruise that will report to him based on the sense powers, whatever the sense is detecting. Yeah. That sounds cool.

I have to check that out. Anybody in the audience would like to chime in with some ideas or thoughts about application? Was that Tracy?

[Speaker 2]
Oh, yeah. Sorry. Is somebody else talking?

[Speaker 1]
No, no. I think that was some translation leaking or something.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. I really like the whole five senses. And then when they talked about the 10, it's like zooming out the lens.

And then it's like the sixth sense. And for me, I look at it as the development of our Ajna chakra, and continuing to study these emptiness teachings and really stripping away the layers to understand these deep, deep layers of consciousness will help to develop that. And I think once that's developed, that's the most important thing about seeing because it's going to be seeing the objects and the powers of the objects in the right way.

So I think that for me, I looked at it as it was like this secret piece that gets developed that the more we meditate, and the more we study this stuff, this gets developed. And when that gets developed, it's like a portal is magical door that opens up, and then we just see things in the right way. And with that ability, it gives us a layer of awareness to not plant negative karma seeds in how we're constantly doing that in the turning of the wheel.

So for me, I got that was the piece that I got, if we could really just activate this piece, and hopefully understand these teachings and see things better, we won't be planting bad karma in the fresh karma wheel.

[Speaker 1]
I don't know. Does that make sense? Yeah, you're more than the rest of us.

Your pineal gland decalcified during this last hour. Thank you. Was somebody else?

I didn't understand. It sounded like a different language, but was somebody else? Oh, what I learned from the class is, before I come to Ms. Nat's class, I didn't always, always aware that thing is not coming from me. But after I attend Ms. Nat's class, for a few months, I start to develop all thing is coming from me.

[Speaker 2]
And then when negative emotion arise, I would like to say something that if you are able, then you put aside your emotion and go to help others.

[Speaker 1]
At least this one can help us to shift our attention. So we won't start a day. That's great.

That's amazing. I'm also waiting for that experience. That's awesome.

[Speaker 2]
Anyone around you that need help, you go to help people.

[Speaker 1]
Otherwise, you're just lying on the bed and continue for a few days. Thank you for sharing, Pei.

[Speaker 2]
But if you cannot do that, then we can do other way around. We try to stop the negative emotion, like doing something that pressure us.

[Speaker 1]
Relax, relax your mood. Then this also useful. Because what I learned from the negative, from the My Only School is, negative emotion will create bad karma.

So we have to stop it. Whether in a way, go to find a person to help, or you go to do something to relax your mood. Stop that emotion first.

This is my selling point. Are you studying ACI 14 with the crew in Malaysia right now? You're not?

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
That sounded very lojong as well. Stop that negative emotion as soon as it comes. That's great though.

Thank you so much for sharing.

[Speaker 3]
Do we have time for one more?

[Speaker 1]
Okay.

[Speaker 3]
I'm enjoying studying the parts of the sense consciousnesses, so that I can see the absurdity of thinking for an instant that they have any nature of their own. It brings up the absurdity of me reacting painfully or negatively in response to any of those components.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, that's helpful. That's a very helpful note to finish this off on actually. I wished for all of us to see that absurdity today as we go through our day or week.

That's awesome. So again, if it's okay with you, I'd like to just share the QR codes and mention the book club now. Do you have any final parting sentiments?

I just want people to see what beautiful arrangement they are doing in Diamond Mountain. Yeah, Nick, please take over. Oh, that's beautiful.

Yeah. Nice. Thank you, Diamond Mountain, Venerable Cat and Rocio.

Is that Rocio? Yeah. Hi guys.

That looks really nice. Amazing. Butter lamps.

Beautiful. Okay. Nick, please take over.

Okay. So real quick, I'm just going to show you guys these QR codes and I'm going to mention to you this wonderful program that we've started, which is please subscribe to the Mixed Nuts. Subscribe to the Diamond Cutter Classics Translation Program by subscribing to the Good Night Book Club, or as some are calling it now, the Good Night Club, where you can sign up depending on your region of the world via one of these QR codes.

You can see the names of your regions here. And depending on how much you subscribe with, you will receive our books or excerpts from our books. Or if you just give a dollar a month, you'll get a nice picture of Geshe Michael sent to you in the mail.

So, but honestly, anything, if you can donate, anything helps. I mean, not donate, but if you can subscribe to our project, anything helps. And it's going to keep this project going far into the future so that we can make sense of books like Sugeng's book translated into understandable English and make this information useful and available to the world.

So please subscribe, even if it's some small amount. It helps keep our organization going. So that's my pitch for that.

And if you have any questions about it, feel free to reach out to me or Ben or your regional coordinator, especially. They will be able to direct you and give you the answers for anything you might need to know. So now we have a session with Peachtree World News.

Thank you very much. And then we have class with Word. Is it Word?

Yes. Okay. I'll always double check with you just to make sure because it is Christmas.

People have stuff going on. You know, I just on that note, happy holidays to you all. If you are into that kind of thing, Merry Christmas.

And we'll see you again. Actually, let me check the schedule just to make sure we get this right. Ben, do you have it pulled up?

Oh, here we go. We will have class on Saturday, December 30th at this time. And that will be Adam.

And then we'll see you again in the new year. So one more class after this for in 2023, hopefully with Keshi and Michael. I believe so.

Yes. Take it away, Garcia or Juan Jaso, whoever it is. Hello, everyone.

Thank you for talking about the reading book, the Good Night Reading Club. It is something that we also want to keep encouraging people to do. And maybe soon we can work together and see how we can let everyone know what to do, how to do it.

Keep encouraging. It sounds very exciting. So for today, we want to also remind you of a few events that are about to happen in Diamond Mountain, by the way, which is this retreat that YSI is organizing.

I want to share with you just a brief material so you know what I'm talking about. You probably know, but let me show you what we have. Eric and some other people from YSI are about to start.

I'm sharing my screen. This amazing retreat where they're going to be practicing the Hatha Yoga Pratypika Kriyas. I'm sharing screen.

OK, there you go. Check this out. It's just like 40 seconds.

This is Luipa, one of the great yogis of the Hatha Yoga lineage. And we'll be doing a retreat this December, the 27th of December to January 2nd at Diamond Mountain on the practices, his practices, his lineage from the Hatha Yoga Pratypika. I'll be leading it with Lisa Shrimp, a dear friend of mine.

And we'll both be leading the Yoga Asanas, Pranayama, meditation and some of the Shadkarma practices, the cleansing practices found in that amazing text. We'll be also diving into a little bit of Ayurveda and looking at ways that we can exit 2023 gracefully and enter 2024 with intentionality. OK, so now you know if you still don't have any plans for this new year, that's a great thing to consider doing.

And then if anything, I'm just going to leave here the QR code of the event if you feel really, really excited and interested, maybe. Yeah, you can see. Amazing.

There is a QR code over there. It's happening in a few more days, December 27th to January 2nd. I bet it's going to be very, very cool.

And we may talk to them after the retreat to see how did it go. And also just to remind you, there is a lot of time ahead still for this other one. But the Hatha Yoga Paratypika Level 3 is going to happen in Sedona starting on January 18th to the 19th.

So it may be a cool time for you to be around if you can. Just leaving you the QR code. You can consider that it's happening in about three weeks from now, something like that.

So it's going to be cool coming very soon. OK, and today we have a very special guest with us, our friend Arina. She has been working with a very cool project.

It's John Brady's Patreon project, where he has been teaching and sharing a lot of content lately. She's going to be talking with us about how it's going, what new content is coming up. Are you there, Arina?

Could you take... Yes, great. Thank you, probably, Marina.

Thank you for spotting light, Arina. How are you, Arina?

[Speaker 3]
Hi, Juan. I'm good. How are you?

[Speaker 1]
Doing well, thank you. Excited for Christmas and the year.

[Speaker 2]
You look all bright and tan.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, probably that's the beach. I've been having the chance to be surfing a little bit in the beautiful beach in Mexico, San Pancho. Geshe Michael used to do some retreats in San Pancho, and many of the people here may have come to these towns.

So here I am, but not for much longer. I have to go back to the city, and maybe soon I will be going to Arizona, very soon. So can you tell us a little bit of what's going on with the Patreon project?

What's new?

[Speaker 2]
Well, we have lots and lots of great, exciting content from JB. We've been filming. So the way it works, really, and I'll tell people who are probably not familiar with what it is, it's a platform.

And weekly, we upload, I upload content from John Brady, which we film specifically for this project, mainly. And so every week, you have a short video, up to 20 minutes, on various topics. Now, mostly, we've been talking about financial freedom.

We uploaded the whole financial freedom course, which is, I think, seven, eight classes with meditations and very deep dives into karmic correlations and all the good stuff. And now we're moving forward, we just finished the financial freedom course, and we're moving forward to meditation and deeper meditation practices. And JB actually just sent me yesterday a video from Asia.

And we just uploaded the Maha Mudra, our preliminary to Maha Mudra. And if I can, I'd love to show you what it looks like.

[Speaker 1]
Yes, actually, I was about to ask you if you could share your screen and show us a little bit. So yeah, I think, yes, great.

[Speaker 2]
So this is what the inside of the community looks like. It's a separate website or an app. And every week, you just get sent this video.

This is the latest, actually, was just uploaded a few minutes ago. This is the Maha Mudra preparation. It's just, I mean, you all know JB, so you know how deep he can take you with just his little comments and very calming energy and voice and just beautiful way to connect with him through this little videos, as well as through a live stream that we host every month.

So if you have a question or you just want to hang out and connect, then it's a very beautiful space to be in. And just, you know, ask your questions. And it's a very small group.

We have like about, I don't know, 40 members. So it's a small group, and you get to hang out and sit and ask your questions. And it goes very deep.

And it's like, I'm very happy with the way, with the community that we built, because everyone is very open. And it's a way to learn things that you probably won't be able to learn just through listening to formal teachings. That's what it is to me.

And to me, John is an amazing example of, you know, how to discipline and also very deep insights. So I honestly highly recommend for everyone to join. And we have very affordable packages, and I'll proceed support ALL, which is probably the most important part.

So everything, I'll proceed support ALL, and you get to support the source of wisdom, you know, where this wisdom comes from, literally, like the books. And you support the, basically, it goes to salaries to those people who are inputting the books and finding the books. And this is where Democratic Classics gets the book from.

So it's, to me, it's a very beautiful project. And I'm very honored to be a part of it and create this community of very intelligent people, and just really the people that I would like to hang out with. So I would love to invite you all.

[Speaker 1]
Here in the screen, you can see the QR code for those who want to get to the, I guess, registration page to the access to the project. And I really like what I saw on the screen you shared with us, Serena. Thank you very much.

It looks really cool. And congratulations to you as well, because you have designed the project, and you have come up with the marketing idea. So thank you for your work is helping and supporting this whole system, machinery of saving the world.

So thank you.

[Speaker 3]
It's my pleasure. It's an honor.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you very much. So we will have you again some other time. In the meantime, Marina, Merry Christmas and very Happy New Year.

[Speaker 2]
Merry Christmas. Happy Holidays.

[Speaker 1]
And to all of you, just before we leave and keep going with work to the Tibetan class, we want to invite you as well. We're going to, we are planning a very cool event. We are planning a New Year's party celebration show in Pitch3 World News.

I'm sharing the screen with you again, where we are going to be talking about all the success that has happened in the many different organizations belonging to the WorldView Network. So here you're going to get to hear so many things and successes that happened in 2003. And also what's coming up for 2004.

This is going to be happening December 31st, 7am Arizona time, that's going to hit exactly the New Year change in Asia. So sign up, you can use the QR code, you just use it, sign up, be there, be ready. We really think you're going to have a lot of fun with the dogs as well here.

My apologies, but that'll be it for now. Thank you very much. Thank you all the team of Diamond Cutter Classics to do these classes, even when Geshe-la is going for a very well-deserved vacation and needed.

Thank you for stepping up and keep doing it. Thank you all the tech team, all the people who help us, volunteers. It has been an amazing first year of Pitch3 World News and let's see what the future is bringing to us.

Thank you. Back to you, Ben or Nick or Ward. Happy New Year.

Thank you so much for being here today, everybody. Ward, we're going to hand it over to you. Thank you, Juan, for putting this together.

Thank you, live translators. Thank you, all guests. Stay tuned for Dr. Ward-Smith. Thank you, Ward. Thanks, Ben. Thanks, Nick.

Thanks, Juan. Thanks, Serena. Thanks, Nick.

Thanks, everybody. Here we go. We are about to finish reading the Diamond Cutter.