Стэнли Чен — Книга 2: Красноречивые слова о сути океана высшего знания (Гьялцаб Чже о «Своде высшего знания» — Абхидхарма-самуччае), занятие 22

[Speaker 2]
...the world in Japan. We had yesterday this amazing class with Stanley about a Dharma book translation and it was just amazing, so please watch it.

[Speaker 1]
And in the end, instead of doing this Diamond Mining and the Peace Tribal News, we have an amazing debate with Geshe Michael and Adam and Juan Hasso about their coming events. The Emptiness of Colors. So please, please, please stay and watch these beautiful debates.

They're starting debating about could be that colors red and white is a door of emptiness or could be like blue and yellow or like what is special about red and white and how those colors are the opening from the Diamond Way. And it was a very beautiful debate, so please, if you can stay to watch them, it's like 20 minutes instead of Peace Tribal News, watch it. And we will start this Gbox project today also night, Arizona time.

I know it's late for some of us, but if you want to receive the recording of that classes, please just register online and in person in the QR code and we will send the recordings as soon as we have them.

[Speaker 2]
So watch them uploads. They're amazing. And thank you so much for everyone to be here.

Thank you for our host Valerie, Mikhail and Marina for making this happening. I know the tech team that was wake up late night to record this class. So yeah, thank you so much.

[Speaker 1]
Let's watch the class. It was amazing and very beautiful. Thank you so much.

So I'm going to just start with my homework first and then when the TV is ready, then we can start Gershela's part. 上一堂课大家有听到玄奘塔翻译课的阿比达摩这本书的同学有吗? Anyone of you who have listened to the last Abidama class?

Oh yeah. Okay. So we'll ask whoever was there last time to answer these questions.

First one, very easy. What are the two divisions or five main chapters of this book? Five chapters?

Nick is looking down. Okay. The two main divisions.

So the two divisions would be the foundation and the ascertainment. And then the five one basically break down the ascertainment into four parts. Okay.

Wow. Yes. Okay.

So the first companion is called the characteristics of all assistance, which is the foundation. And then the companion two to number five is the companion of truth. Oh, sorry.

The companion of ascertainment of truth, ascertainment of Dharma and ascertainment of attainment and ascertainment of closure, discourse. Sorry. Discourse.

Okay. Wow. Very exciting.

Okay. What are the three things of the foundation of this book? What are the famous three Abidama things?

Yes. Five, five. Wait.

Five hips. Yeah. 12, 12 sense and 18 categories.

Good things. Oh, it's getting ready. Okay.

Okay. What are the nine points of these three things that we will be studying about from the dome, the summary, summarized verses? Okay.

Let's go. Yeah. Oh, yes.

How many? Okay. And then, so this do and teacher, why?

And then, uh, take it. We don't know what it means here, right? Probably the five hips.

Zeni definition. Outline. Um, uh, doom meaning all this are related to the three things, the hips, the doors of senses and the categories.

Yeah. All of them are talking about this three, uh, DPE DEP. This is the Chinese original version of the verses.

Yeah. Okay. Sure.

I was going to show you this picture.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
We were talking about necklace and this pic on the left is a famous Dunhuang painting where the bodhisattva is wearing necklace. And then on the right, it's actually a famous Japanese, um, Tang dynasty sculpture of, uh, Maitreya and also with, uh, I know I remember that similar to this one. Yeah.

I think the one above doesn't have the crown, but, but the necklace here is very beautiful too. Yeah. And, uh, half cross leg.

Yeah. Okay. And this is the translation student translation where I put some AI effort and work and, and we're correct.

All of them. What do you mean? I try to use AI to, to, to translate.

It doesn't work and word help me. All right. Please.

Okay. Good. Okay.

Uh, the first test two parts division by number and division by calamary number. Good. Yeah.

That's fine. Okay. Basically, Abhidharma is similar to modern science.

They want to divide the whole universe into different parts. Only higher school think about, is it empty or not empty? So, if you take all of Buddhist literature, all of the ancient literature, the earliest literature did just divide things.

And then when you go higher, higher, they start to talk about the emptiness of things. Halfway between is some, is something we call pramana. And we're going to talk about that later.

So, right now, we're at the very beginning of his book. This is his second book. The first book is finished.

We are getting it ready for publication. And it's a great book on Abhidharma. And then Xiaoping's and Stanley's team going to translate it into Chinese, modern Chinese.

Okay, so right now, it's kind of boring place. And they're just dividing everything. Everything in the universe.

Okay, so let's go. Can you read one more? DANG PO NI PHUNG PO NAM NI NGA'A DE SHES PA'I NGES PA GSUNG BA MED PA LA RDOG PA YOD DE GANG THANGS CAD CHE GYIS BYANG LAS CES DRAG THUG MI MDRA BA SHES PA'I CHES YIN PA'I CHOS Yeah, good.

So, we're going to talk about numbers. You know, why do they give the numbers? Yeah, you can say heaps are five.

Heaps means the parts of you, and we can divide you into five parts, and those are the basis of suffering. Okay, why is that we have to talk about? But if someone asks you, how do you divide everything in the world?

We can answer there are five parts. Mainly to the person. A very famous beginning of all the ancient books.

Then it says here, ngepa sunwa, ngepa sunwa, ngepa means exact, okay, exact numbers. Yeah, not more, not less. Then they say, what's the gupa?

What's gupa, you guys, Adam? Yeah, why? Why you do that?

Why you divide into five? Well, because there's other numbers. Kam and kye che.

There's doors of categories and doors of senses. Yeah, you can divide the universe into eighteen parts. You can divide the person into eighteen parts.

You can divide the person into twelve parts. So, the reason we say five is we want to make it different from those other two categories. Do we want people to understand that division is different?

Mingdrawa. Mingdrawa. Yeah, princess is blue.

Yeah, okay. Yeah, okay, that's okay. Yep.

Keep going. Good. Nice, okay, good.

Let me combine them. Let me get down there. Okay.

I don't want to go through this way, okay? Pungpo ngapo. Yeah, so, the very very very oldest books of Buddhism, they say the first thing you have to understand is there are five parts to the person.

If you understand those five, you understand why people have to die. So, it sounds boring, but it's actually very important. Everybody in this room will die.

There's an ancient joke. It says, who will be the last one? In this room, who will be the ...

we don't know. But, we all have to die. And, there's a reason.

And, it starts with the five parts of the person. It's a strange thing. Those are not called five parts, they're called five heaps.

Heap means like leaf, dry leaf heap. So, they started with the first of the five heaps. If you really understand the five heaps, you don't have to die.

So, it's important. What's the first heap? What's the first part of the person?

Body, they say. Yeah. So, he's going to define what is physical matter.

What's a physical body? And, he says five parts. First one, you can ...

rekpa means you can touch it. It means physical. Physical body.

And, when you check it, you'll chepa. Chepa. Chepa means check.

And, suksu yupa means it exists as a form. I want to show you ... so, I added a half hour on this class, because two of my friends are debating in Kyoto this week.

And, I asked them to come and show us a very famous debate. It's called red and white. Okay?

Just called red and white. Now, question. And, this is a very interesting question.

What's the definition of red? How can you explain red in definition? Very difficult question.

And, the answer in Buddhism, the answer ... do you have any red? Yeah.

Okay. Don't show too much. They'll get hungry.

Yeah. So, let's say you are from another planet. And, I say, do you know what is red?

And, then you say, no, I don't know. And, you say, give me the definition of red. Then, you cannot explain red in words.

How do you teach somebody red? Okay? The ancient definition of red.

Point to red. This is red. Because, you cannot explain in words.

You just have to show it. Okay? The first of the five parts of the person.

Physical part. Mainly, you just have to show it to somebody. You cannot explain more than that.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
So, suksu yupa means it exists as red. That's the definition of physical body. And, there are two characteristics of it.

nabarik chepe suk and nabarik che ma yinpe suk. Okay? Very, very difficult from the first sentence.

Okay? There's all physical matter. Has two kinds.

Okay? You guys got a word for me, Nick? nabarik chepe suk, nabarik che ma yinpe suk?

Yeah. You can say, communicates. And, does not communicate.

Okay? And, that's very interesting. Okay?

Two kinds of things you can see. Two kinds of colors, for example. Number one, tells you a story.

Number two, does not tell you a story. And, it's a very beautiful and lucky example this week. What's the example, Nick or Adam, of the physical form that tells you a story?

Yeah, good. When you go to take a vow, like a bodhisattva vow, or you make a promise about those ten good behavior vows, do you guys know chicken posture? You can do it this way.

Okay? Or, you can do it on the chair. Which you like is okay.

In the West, you ... one knee. You can take a vow on one knee.

For a thousand years. So, there's different ... countries have different custom.

But, if you see someone sit like chicken, you can guess what's in their heart. You see? You cannot read their mind.

But, if they're sitting like this, must be they are making promise. They are taking vow. Okay?

And, if you see it, that tells you a story. Those color and shape tell you a story. Oh, this person today is very serious.

They making promise to keep bodhisattva vow. So, from the colors and the shapes, kind of you can see their mind. Now, actually, if you could read their mind.

Okay? Go like this. I hope they have good refreshment after this vow through.

Like, you never know what's really thinking. But, generally, if they like this, then they have some special good heart. At that moment, they have special good heart.

And, in the Abhidharma school, when you take a vow, and you are sitting like chicken, or you are sitting on one knee, there's a picture taken of you by the universe. And, that picture will never die. Okay?

At that moment, when you say, I take a vow, it's like the universe, Buddha, all the Buddhists take picture of you. And, that picture will last forever. After you die, the picture will survive.

Okay? So, that's one kind of red. That red tells a story, because the person is bowing down.

Now, next day, they took bodhisattva vow, fly home to Xiamen, go to the airport, meet their family. Somebody pushed them. What are you doing?

At that time, they still stay with them. But, nobody can see. They say, in the ancient book, that picture stays with you.

With the monk vow, it stops when you die. The picture will stop when you die. With bodhisattva vow, that picture survives even after you die.

Okay, nambarikshaya mayumbay su. Okay, that survives. You will change your body, you know, but that picture of you will never change.

So, if you divide all physical things into two, there's one which tells a story, and one doesn't tell a story. Next day, you see that person who took the bodhisattva vow. Hey, what do you think?

This person has bodhisattva vow or not? You can't see. You can't see, okay?

Got it? So, they're dividing physical into two kinds. One tells a story of your motivation at that moment, and one does not tell a story.

Okay? How many people in this room have diamond wave vow? We don't know.

You cannot see. Okay? Like that.

That's important to remember. The person who irritate you on the airplane next week, maybe they have a diamond wave vow, we don't know. We have to be careful.

Alright, then it's ... so, you can divide the physical heap into two kinds. It tells a story, or it doesn't tell a story.

CHOS NYID BSAM means or. SBYONG NA means 15. And basically, you can think you have five senses.

In the shin ching, we go down the body. Eye, ear, nose, tongue, skin, and mind. Okay?

Yeah, like that. Go down. Then there's five organs of the sense.

Then there's five consciousness waiting behind. And there's five objects, like smell, sound, something to see. So, generally you can have two divisions or 15.

Okay, we got one line. Also, definition of physical matter. SBYONG DU RUNG BA.

SBYONG means like BYONG LDAN DE. Destroy. Like enemy destroy.

DRA BCOM PA, same. Okay? If you hit someone, can you break their mind?

No, mind is not physical. Can you break their nose? Yeah, that's form.

So, definition of form, one part is you can break it. These are very deep, okay? But that's another part of the definition.

And, okay, so it's called SUG. RUG PA. Probably there's some RUG PAs in here.

RUG PA became KREB. KREB. KREB.

KREB. And KREB became corpse. And marine core, body, body.

So, RUG PA became corpse. It means body. They both come from KREB.

Okay, so anyway, he says, and in a person, that physical stuff, atoms, molecules, bones, skin, it's piled up. Therefore, HIP. We call HIP.

One person has many physical pieces. Like, how many atoms in your body? Like, one billion.

You are a pile of atoms. So, we call the five piles. Five.

Five piles. Okay, here, Stanley. PUNG PA'I PHYIR, because it's piled up.

Because it's piled up. We call PUNG PO, noun, HIP. Because, PHYIR, many things piled up.

DUMA means many things. Many. In Buddhism, we call your five parts the five HIPs.

Because each one is many things piled up. In the Sanskrit, it's what? SKANDHA.

SKANDHA. Okay, HIPs. Alright, and then he says, also LHAG MA ZHIG.

What's LHAG mean? The rest. Yeah, the rest.

What's ZHI? The other four. It means the other four parts of you are also HIPs.

Because they also have many pieces. Huh? How can you say my ...

what's the second part? Feelings. Feelings.

How can we be HIP? Come on, you can have a million feelings. Jealous, happy, celebrate, and you pile up, pile up, pile up.

Each of these five parts of you has many pieces. Therefore, we say five heaps. Alright, and he quoted another book, and I went and got some of those quotations for you.

Okay, here we go. I'm going to transfer this to you, Geshe-la. Actually, we're dividing the SKYE CHES and the KHAMS. And who's going to read, should they come on?

Yeah, do we have a microphone? Nick is mine. Okay, our guest, let's welcome Nick.

Let's start with that. And stay for the next one, because he's walked so far. What's GZHAN ZHIG?

Definition. It's the opposite. Oh, definindim.

Yeah, what you are defining. DNGOS GSUNGS is the past tense of DNGON DZIN. Recognized.

Identified. And then the GRANGS. How many numbers?

And what are the divisions? SREG BA YOD PA means the different parts. Yeah.

So, we divided the person into five parts. Then we do twelve parts, then we do eighteen parts. This author decided to put the last two together, the twelve and the eighteen parts.

By the way, we chose this book for Stanley, because it was found at Dunhuang. And he has connection to Dunhuang. They found sixty thousand books in Dunhuang.

I think this is one of the most important ones. So, we thought it's good luck to translate it first. Who's the author, Stanley?

Well, there are two, but the original is Asanga. Asanga? Arya Asanga.

Yeah. If you know the story of the herd dogs, the guy who spent 12 years in the cave, couldn't see Maitreya. He wrote this book, after he got back from Maitreya's place.

His audience changed. Why? Yeah, 50 years passed by.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
One day in Maitreya's heaven, 50 years here. Then he spent one day learning all this thing from Maitreya. Then he came back, all his friends are dead.

He has to start his school all over again. Okay, so this very famous book, and big connection to Dunhuang. Alright, Nick's going to keep going.

Can you use the ... so they can see? The pointer.

Yeah. Nice. Very nice.

consider the categories. Yeah, the categories of the person. CHOB SKYES.

There's 18. And they go from MED KYI KHAM. They go from the category of I, seeing, up to YI SKYES RNAM PAR BSHAD PA.

The category of awareness. When you're translating Abhidharma, you have to say awareness of the thought, because it's very complex. Yeah.

Now, DAR KHYEN is a very difficult word. Especially if the carving from DON BWANG is wrong. So, don't forget.

They don't have internet. They don't have a printer. They copy the book by hand, and the copier is always uneducated.

They spend all day just copying the book. They cannot read it. So, they make mistakes.

Then, one of John Brady's challenges, we have to fix the books while we save them. So, here's a very nasty and very important mistake. So, Nick, what's DARK mean?

DARK? Big Boss. Self.

[Speaker 2]
And GAN?

[Speaker 1]
Factor or condition. Yeah, and in the second chapter of Abhidharma, we have five kinds of factors. Like small cause.

Secondary cause. One is called DARK KHYEN. It's a factor which is attached to your body.

Why? Eye, ear, nose, tongue, skin. These are called the five DARK KHYEN.

So, this DARK means including the human person. And why is it a KHYEN? Why is your eye, and your ear, and your nose ...

DARK means it's part of you. Okay, I understand. But KHYEN means it's a trigger.

What does it trigger? Well, the eyeball triggers what? Vision.

Yeah, inside the mind. Oh, I see something red. So, this eye triggers in the next moment of awareness.

Red goes through the eye and triggers awareness. $100, you ready? Ready?

Everyone ready? Everybody's like ... When I say $100, everybody's like ...

$100, $100, $100. Okay, here's Abhidharma. There's red.

Envelope. There's red. Then there's DARK KHYEN.

DARK KHYEN. Eyeball. Then the red comes and touches the eyeball.

Then the eyeball calls the mind. Hello, mind? We got something down here.

What is it? Square. Square, square.

Eye cannot see ... thing. Eye can only see color and shape.

He only has like 20 words. Hello, this is eye. Brain says, what do you got?

Square, square. Can you tell me more? Red, red.

Red square. When Rob holds up the red square, does everyone's mouth become like the moon? Yeah, yeah.

That's a red envelope. So, listen. There's $100 here.

The red hit the eyeball. And the eyeball wake up, say red. Red square.

Then the eyeball call the brain. Hello, brain? We got red square.

Then brain's like ... Maybe it's a very bad apple. Square.

Or maybe it's a red envelope. Then it goes like that. That's Abhidharma.

Abhidharma is the lowest school. Why? $100.

Okay, because I believe Abhidharma still believes that the matter still outside there. That's halfway, halfway answer. Yeah, halfway answer.

I want a complete answer. If I give you a clue, it's not fun. So, let's see what she says.

Okay. So, in Abhidharma, the red envelope, they believe the red envelope is seen by the brain, but actually is created by our mental seeds. I like it.

You are close to $100. Can you give me directions? Then it's all clear.

What does it mean? Give me a direction. Incoming or outgoing?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Higher school. Does the envelope come this way?

Lower school. Envelope come this way. That's why it's a lower school.

See what I mean? If the money comes this way, you have to fight for the money. If the money comes this way, give more money.

Make more money. Plant the seed. Plant the seed.

You think Geshe-la is a nice guy? He's just trying to make more money. Give $100, give $100, give $100.

Then it all comes back. Okay? Because it comes ...

it doesn't come this way. It comes this way. And that's a big important difference between the schools.

So, this daken ... they don't use this word much in the higher school, because your awareness of reality is not triggered by your eye. Okay?

It's very interesting. Different language. Okay, keep going Nick.

Kam Tuk. Six ... well, in this case, it would be six categories.

Six ... six person-mounted triggers. Six person ...

person-mounted triggers. Mounted. Mounted.

Six person ... mounted. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. It's eye, nose, ear, skin, and the mouth. Okay, good, yeah.

So, they are ... they wake up the awareness. When it comes this way.

Okay, and which one does science believe? Abhidharma way. Abhidharma.

Okay. If you put modern science into Buddhist school system, you ... is it lowest one?

One? Abhidharma? Mana?

Mind only? Middle way? These are low, medium, high?

Where's science? Down here. Okay.

If you teach science to Buddha, he say, ah, what? That's below number one. Okay, anyway.

But you say, Geshe-la, science works. Can you make a ... can you make an iPhone?

Can you make a Huawei phone? Geshe-la, you say science is below Abhidharma. Can you make a Huawei phone?

Yeah, I can. And I can call another planet in one second. Okay.

All right.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Excellent.

[Speaker 1]
Mikpah you. Objective? Like, what you see?

Yeah, the red color. Kamdug. So, there's six objects, six senses, and six awareness.

Okay? Eighteen. Eighteen.

Very famous in Abhidharma. All right, Nick, don't go away. We love you.

Where's the tenpa nambar shepa? Tenpa nambar shepa, kamdug. That's what is relying on the dakhyan.

Okay, what's resting on the dakhyan. With the B, it means the thing which is resting. Without the B, it means the thing which is supporting.

Okay. So, the six awarenesses are resting on top of the six consciousness, six sense organs. I see.

Keep going, Nick. Okay. ni nge sung ni okpa nyi la yang nga matar shepa jau Yeah, and then he, in the original Sanskrit, there's a particle, ni.

And he says, you want to know what the ni is? nge sung means you're pointing to something. nge sung means you're pointing to something.

So, he says, ni effectively in the Tibetan means is. Is. Yeah, you just say, and I went and got it for you.

Okay. Don't forget he's glossing the root text. Oh yeah, right.

The root text says, dabo ni, pungpo nam. Dabo ni, pungpo nam. Ni.

Those is, is. He's just saying that particle is serving as a verb here. Oh, ni means is.

He's never seen that before. No, he never saw it with a apostrophe on it. Okay, good.

Let's get another victim. Okay, okay. This guy did okay.

Just to remind you of your time. I got my eye on it. Okay, Nick.

Who's Nick? And then, then the third one will be at one. You're gonna know.

Adam started on our translator team eight years ago. I chose 12 translators. After eight years, nobody died.

Some of them had kids, and he finished his first book already. That's the first book. Okay, and we'll talk more about it.

Okay, Lindsay, where's Lindsay? Hi, there's Lindsay. She helps us to find sponsors for the translators, and Grandpa's job is to go around and say, please help!

So, anyway, sometimes for fundraising, for their salary, I will sell books sometimes. So, we'll talk about it later. Okay, and we hope to translate them all into modern Chinese.

So, Adam is one of the great translators. And ... go!

Start at the top, yeah. He's very handsome, and also a handsome voice. He's not only handsome, but also has a charming voice.

Hello, my name is Nick.

[Speaker 2]
My name is Nick, and I am a translator.

[Speaker 1]
Very good, very good. Wow! So, we finished dividing the person into five parts, and we finished dividing the person into eighteen parts.

Now we should do the twelve parts. So, kye che means doorway of the senses. That's an easy translation.

The real ancient word for che ... anybody? You guys?

Che? M-C-H-E-D? Very difficult word.

It's like conflagrate. Yeah, conflagrate. It means to multiply wildly.

Yeah, like you look at one book, and then after one hour, you have hundred feelings. So, your senses have power to multiply. They are twelve.

Starting with miky kye che, the doorway of the eye, and goes up to the chuky kye che, the gateway of all things, which is the nickname for the object of the mind. Okay. What's the Sanskrit?

Like Dharmadatta, you can say. Very famous. Okay.

All right, now so you'll be able to ... Okay, yay! Keep going, Adam.

Nibbala sum pungpo ngar ngepay gyu tsen dang, kam chok chok kye du ngepay gyu tsen dang, kye che chu nyi su ngepay gyu tsen no. Yay! Okay, good.

Now he's going to tell us how many are each of those divisions. But, he's not just going to tell us how many they are, he's going to tell us why it has to be that number. Yeah.

Why it has to be five? Why not four? Why not six?

Why it has to be twelve? Why not thirteen? So, that's the next section.

We're going to explain why the heaps have to be five, why the categories have to be eighteen, and why the doors of sense have to be twelve. Okay, keep going, Adam. You can do these together.

Okay. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, good. Very good.

[Speaker 1]
chi chir chi chir means why. Why five heaps? Why not four?

Why not six? Oh, this chang is ngepa. It's fixed at that number.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, it has to be five.

[Speaker 1]
But, you can say there's five sak che pungpos, and you can also say there's five sak me pungpos. There's five stained and five unstained. Yeah, good.

Basically, five mortal parts or five immortal parts. Okay, and here we go. Let's see.

Yeah, it just means five is needed for that. Okay, can you read that one? Yes, sir.

I won't let you go. Okay, here we go. Yeah, good.

Okay, good. Difficult. In this tradition, we say all death, all suffering is caused by misunderstanding.

Especially people don't understand this one. Okay? They think everything ...

Alright, so basically, ignorance means ... We've been talking the last few days about the business atmosphere right now in the world, and it's a little bit crazy. It's very VUCA.

Okay? And if you're an Abhidharma person, dee dee dee dee dee dee Oh, I can't believe they do that. Oh, I can't believe they do that.

If you're a middle way person, dee dee dee dee dee Ah, I have to stop making, I have to stop. This is coming from me. The world is a pen.

All the trouble in the world is a pen. All the economic trouble in the world is a pen. Comes from me.

So, if we can, in the Abhidharma system, there's a famous Latin saying, divide and conquer. If you break the person up into pieces, people slowly will start to understand it comes this way. Anytime you have a business problem, break it into pieces, and then solve the pieces one by one.

It's much, much easier. There's also Lord Buddha's system. Split the person into five parts.

It's easier to understand each part coming from you. The color of the person coming from you. The feelings of the person coming from you.

The intelligence of the person coming from you. The life of the person coming from you. Everything, every piece coming from you.

So, Buddha said, if we break the person into pieces, it's easier to understand they are coming from you. That's why we break the heaps into five. We're supposed to stop the class there, and I wanted ...

I invited Adam this week in Kyoto. Adam and his friend, they are giving a debate demonstration, and it comes from Adam's book. If you buy this book, you can become Buddha, or you can get exercise.

It's so heavy. Okay, so, I asked them to come, and we're just going to talk to you about their program. If you have time, you can come to the program.

It's in nearby. Or, they're happy to talk to you individually. If you want to ask questions about these things, or it will be online.

It will be recorded, and it will be translated into Chinese also. It's okay? Yeah, so, any way you can see it.

We have twelve translators. They are amazing. After eight years, they are amazing.

Their understanding is unbelievable. But some of them are very shy. Then I have to push them.

Go to Kyoto. Go to Kyoto. Talk about your book.

Teach a little bit. So, we have a program, and it's going to be Adam Andrade and his friend Juan Hustle. Can you scoot down a little bit?

Okay, that's fine. How about Juan sit here? Juan Hustle from Guadalajara, Mexico.

His ancient language is also very good. He can read all the books. He studies with me.

How many years have you studied with me? 2013, so 12. 12 years?

How many years have you studied with me? 16. 16 years, 12 years.

Also, maybe sometimes when you watch our translation class, which we do three classes every week, it's free, and you can watch it online for free. After the class, we usually have a news show, and Juan is the director of our news show. Then he tells, oh look, maybe you want to go to Turkey, or you can go to Dunhuang, or you can go to Paris.

He announces all those things. So, we asked him to come together, and they're going to talk about ... I'm just going to talk a little bit about their program, and I'll ask them a few questions.

Okay, you guys. What's the name of your ... So, in general, this book has many debates.

What's the name of this debate that you're going to discuss? The name of the debate? Yeah, in the ancient language.

Kadokikamar. Yeah, say kadokikamar. Kadokikamar.

Kadokikamar. Kadokamar. Yeah, it means white and red color.

Then, okay, you guys, in the Geshe course, we debate for 25 years. What year do we debate this subject that you're going to teach in Kyoto? We start the first year.

The Geshe course is 25 years, and this is the first course. They're going to teach it. Come, please.

In the Geshe course, when you enter, you have to be 15 years old. Then you finish when you're 40. In my class, in my class, 5% finish.

95% die or leave the monastery so it's difficult. Okay. We'll show you some debate, and then I'd like to talk about it.

And I have a ... I'll ask Huan, okay? And just relax and just have fun.

Pretend you're Huan. So, those guys are going to debate for an average of 4 hours every day for 25 years. For a total of 25 years.

That's it. 4 hours. And then every time you finish, you're like, I can't do it anymore.

And then the blood comes out. Blood comes out. And 4 hours every day for 25 years.

You ask my wife. That's why you don't argue with Geshe. Okay.

So, I have a question for Huan. Just answer what you think. If they're going to debate for 25 years, why they start the first day to debate red and white?

Okay. Yes. Turn off microphone.

Now it's on. Now it's good. Up to you.

Now it's good. Why not? If Geshe-la offers his microphone, of course I'm going to say yes.

If Geshe-la offers his microphone, Okay. So, what I've been thinking is because of this. Red and white.

Why? Okay. Good translator.

Why is the first topic? And I was wondering could it have been blue and green? Or no?

I don't know. But red and white are very suspicious. Is it okay to talk about...

Yeah? Okay. You know Diamond Way teachings.

Red and white are very suspicious. And if you keep coming to these classes with Geshe-la, Chan and Xiaoping, you will learn more about it. Really?

I said it's a good advertisement. Red and white are very important colors. Not random colors.

But they are teaching to kids. I think somehow they are opening them a very long and deep path. Many different levels.

Okay. That's maybe why a very deep level and now I'm gonna talk a very basic but also profound level. We see colors all the time.

All day. They are with us all the time. Maybe if we start to understand that even those colors are not coming from themselves, coming from us, but really coming from us, we will be able to start accessing and understanding that emptiness is with us everywhere all the time.

So something that is with us all day, all the time, basic colors and shapes.

[Speaker 2]
Somehow it's already whispering in our ears.

[Speaker 1]
The world is empty. It's coming from you. We'll see.

[Speaker 2]
Good. Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
Lindsey. Where is Lindsey? Do you have enough books for them to sign books afterwards if people want them?

You do? How many can I? Okay.

All right. Good. 35.

Dollars? No, no. Books.

Copies. 35 copies. I just personally, I'm asking them can they sign the book?

And if you want to buy a copy, it will help me to pay their hotel. Okay, so after the class, they will sign copies for you guys. Grandpa will run away.

You guys come here, up here, and they will sign the book. Okay? Both hands.

Both hands. Okay, here's my ... How much?

I don't know how much. 75.

[Speaker 2]
75 US dollars.

[Speaker 1]
Don't win. Okay, all right. It helped me to bring them here.

And he has a kid also. Okay, so I have a question for you. Inside the red and white debate, there are 12 famous questions.

Okay? Every debate, the stupid guy comes first and he says something crazy. Then you have to show him why it's wrong.

And that's the same for two and a half thousand years. They say something wrong. Then you say, no.

Then they say, why? You have to give them a reason. At the end, they're like, oh, you're right.

Then they learn something. We do that for 25 years. So, I'm going to give a little sample.

Hi, Adam. Hi, Adam. I think if something is white, it must be a color.

Why don't we take, let's talk about the color of a... Let's talk about the color of a white seashell. Do me a horse.

Yeah, okay. Well, then let's consider a white horse. Yeah, a white horse is white.

White is a color. If it's white, it must be a color. Then we say, oh, okay, let's talk about a white horse.

When you give an example, you have to do a very pleasant way. Oh, Geshe Michael, let's talk about a white horse. I guess a white horse is a color.

Right? White horse is a color. That's not necessarily the case.

Why not? It's white. Because a white horse isn't a color, it's a person.

Oh, a horse is a person? Oh, a white horse isn't a color, it's a person? A white horse is a person.

So, a person cannot be color? No. Well, how many different kinds of changing things are there?

Two, three. Okay, what are they? Show.

You have physical things. Physical things.

[Speaker 2]
You have mental things.

[Speaker 1]
And you have things which are neither, but they still change. All changing things in the world, either mental, sorry, physical, or mental, or something has both, meaning, changing, other changing things. Now, I'll give you an example.

You give me an example. Okay, this is how we do it. There is nothing in the world which is changing, which is not physical and not mental.

There is nothing in the world which is changing, which is not physical and not mental. This thing does not exist. What about seeds, mental seeds?

Oh, well, seeds. Oh, I know. Mental seeds are not in the mind.

And his answer is, let's talk about these mental seeds. And the teacher says, aren't these mental seeds in your mind? They are in the mind, but they are not mine.

Oh, he says, they are in the mind, but they are not part of the mind. Then why are they not part of the mind? Because they are not aware.

They don't think. They don't say, oh, I'm a seed, I'm ready to open, but let me wait a little more to make his life really miserable. They don't say that.

Yeah, it's a good answer. Okay. Seeds stay in the mind, but it is not mine.

It lives in the mind, but it is not mine. Why? No one can tell me the definition of mind.

Celestine Ripper. Celestine Ripper.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, Celestine Ripper.

[Speaker 1]
Don't say the whole thing. No one can tell me the definition of mind. It's not true.

It's not true. Somebody can give you the definition of mind. Duh.

Duh. Yes, sure. Yes, sure.

Celestine Ripper. Celestine Ripper. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Celestine Ripper. Celestine Ripper. The definition of mind is clear and knowledgeable.

It's invisible and knowledgeable. It's invisible and knowledgeable. Then I say Baccha.

Say Baccha. Baccha. Baccha means mental seed.

When it opens, you see people you don't like. Baccha. The same name is Baccha.

The name of the seed of consciousness is Baccha. Then I say to Adam, Baccha Ch'e Ch'e. Let's talk about Baccha, the seed of consciousness.

It is my consciousness. It is my consciousness. Duh.

Why did you say that? Oh yeah, Ch'e Ch'e, sorry. Why did you say the seed of consciousness?

I said I said seed in the mind is the mind. Then he said I disagree. Baccha Ch'e Ch'e.

Shepa Manyinpa Ta. Are you telling me Baccha is not mind? Agree.

Duh. You're right. What?

It's in the mind and it's not mental? Huh. That's what I said.

You have to, even you don't know the answer, you have to That's what I said. That's what I said. I mean, it's in the mind but it's not mental.

Ch'e Ch'e. Why? Why?

Why? Why? Why is it not mental?

[Speaker 2]
Because it's not awareness.

[Speaker 1]
Shepa Manyinpa Ch'e. Shepa Manyinpa Ta. Why is it not Shepa?

Why is this Baccha, why is the seed not the mind? It doesn't know the seed. Good.

It doesn't fit the definition. The seed stays in the mind but it's not the mind. That's just the location.

Because if the seed is mind the seed will also understand things. But so far it's not even open yet. It's not doing anything.

So, Dakarpo Ch'e Ch'en Let's talk about that white horse. Yeah, Sukh Mayende Why is it Oh, sorry, Karo Mayende is not color. Why?

By the way, it's very physical. It's to prepare you for marriage. Yeah.

Kasa Yinpe Ch'er Kasa Yinpe Ch'er Dakarpo Ch'e Ch'er Let's talk about the white horse. Kasa Yinpa Ta You're telling me it's a person? De.

Why? Kasa Yinpe Ch'er Kasa Yinpe, Kasa Yinpe Ch'er Kasa Yinpe, Kasa Yinpe Very big mistake in debate. why is white horse a person?

By the way, in Buddhism all animals are persons. Okay? That's why we cannot kill them.

They are same as human. Okay? So, I say he said, the white horse is not a color because it's a person.

Then I say, Kasa Yinpe, why? I don't know the reason. It's one kind of Kasa.

Demen Duche Yinpe Ch'er Okay, good, nice, nice. Demen Duche Yinpe Ch'er It's changing thing which is not physical or mental. Yeah, Demen Duche Yinpe Ch'er Ch'er Nobody can show me some example of something which is changing but not physical or mental.

No one can give me some example. So, why? Show, show, show, show By the way, you got two more minutes.

Show Ch'er Ch'er Ch'er Demen Duche Yinpe Ch'er Let's take a mental seed. Yeah, Sugma Yinpata Sugma Yinpata It's not physical? By the way, sometimes one guy can debate two guys and they can cooperate.

Sugma Yin Sugma Yin De Chi Chi Why is the mental seed not physical? Why is the mental seed not physical? I'm not aware.

No, not physical. Did you say not physical or not mental? Repeat the question.

Demen Baxak Ch'er Ch'en Baxak Ch'er Ch'en Sugma Yinpe Ch'er Is it physical? Dabaduk It's not, it's not physical. Baxak Ch'er Ch'en Sugma Yinpata That means not physical?

No, not physical. Ma Yinpe Why the hell not physical? It doesn't have atoms.

That's pretty good for Abhidharma, but what's the definition of Sugma Yinpata? We just taught it today. You cannot point to it.

You cannot say that's red or that. Okay, good. Yeah, Sugma Yinpata Sugma Yinpata Baxak Ch'er Ch'er Baxak Ch'er Ch'er Dabaduk No, it's not.

Baxak Ch'er Ch'er Oh, sorry. I said, okay, mental seed is not physical. I agree.

He beat me. He beat me. Now I say, if the seed is not physical, it must be mental.

Sugma Yinpata Sugma Yinpata Is it mental? No. No, it's not mental.

Huh! Sugma Yinpata Sugma Yinpata It lives in the mind. No, it's mental.

Not necessarily. Just because mental seeds stay in the mind doesn't mean it's mental. So, Sugma Yinpata Shepa Yinpata Baxak Ch'er You say, duh.

What is it? Then you say, Demanduchi. It's a changing thing which is not mind or...

Medagpa Yinpata Madur I don't agree it's a changing thing. I don't agree mental seed is changing thing. Medagpa Yinpata What do you say?

You say, Demanduchi. Medagpa Yinpata Yes, it is. It is changing.

Teacher Because it has a beginning and it has an end. Okay, that's pretty good. Anyway We ran out of time.

But I have one more thing to say. Why those children debate red and white? One of the first debates is if this envelope is red it cannot be white.

Agree or not? Then some kids These kids are so cute. They say, ah, what about peppermint candy?

Peppermint candy? Like they have red and white? Yeah, Christmas candy.

Tie your tie. Looks like your tie. Yeah, what about pink and white?

Then they always thinking about candy. What about Christmas candy? It's red and white.

Then the other kids say, no, no, all red and all white cannot be both. Then the kids start to learn the idea of contradiction. If it's all red it cannot be all white.

Then they start to learn about contradiction. There's many kinds of contradiction. My question to you and I think it's very deep and to tell you the truth nobody in the Geshe course asks this question.

For 1,000 years the kids for 1,500 years since the Tang dynasty the kids start with this debate. Why? Well, one thing they can learn contradiction.

If it's red it cannot be white. If it's white it cannot be pink. All red, all white.

Okay, that's the first thing they learn on the first day in 25 years. If it's red it cannot be white at the same time. Why do you think they are learning that?

If someone is a good person they cannot be a bad person. Nobody in the monastery thinks about it. It's just the way it is for over 1,000 years the kids always start with red and white.

I think there's something very deep. Huan said and you can read it in the book there's many diamond way examples in the red and white. These kids are learning diamond way examples when they are 15 years old but I ask you something I will ask you something deeper Is it true if something is all red it cannot be all white.

Is it true? He said no for one person. Why?

The world is always two-dimensional but when we guide the wisdom it's always red and white. So it's just like when you taught us last time about duality or non-duality it seems like the world is in duality it's either you or me but actually by learning white and red you learn that no you are me and white is red. Listen Listen Why do you see this red?

Your seeds Now if you have seeds to see red does he have to have seeds to see red? No He can see white at the same time You know Seiji Seiji He is color blind He is fighting with his kid, Maitri, every day Maitri says, Daddy, that's blue Seiji says, no, it's green Because Seiji's seeds are different from the kid's seeds Now listen, last thing Then you come and say hi and buy a book for me and they will sign it Can one person all see the same thing as red and the other person see it as white? One person see as chew toy one person see as a pen That means it must be coming from you White come from him, red come from her Even color coming from you Now good person, bad person, nice person, mean person obviously come from you But if red come from you If white come from you If red can change to white Then of course you can see people differently Oh, I say John Brady is a really nice person And somebody says, no, no, he can't If we even see color differently Then of course we see people differently Then try to be a little bit peaceful Maybe he met a different person than you met Maybe your friend has a white face, his friend has a red face We don't know I think it's a very beautiful first debate in 25 years And it's the first part of Adam's book It's long, it's like 60 pages And just read it No, I mean that debate Just read it And he's making This is the first of five books I think How many?

Four? Okay, grandpa is going to slowly go away Please take all the books home I don't want to carry them back Thank you