Ник Лашо — Книга 2: Ратнамала, занятие 39

[Говорящий 1]
I see Dr. Kramer, who's not actually a doctor, it turns out. We just, for some reason, can't stop calling him that. Yeah, medical or otherwise.

Yeah, I was just going to say, I've been having some pain in my right shoulder. Maybe if you could talk to me. Meet Gulliver.

Now, that's someplace near your home, but that's not your home. Yeah, this is Tim's hotel room, actually. So I was just downstairs, and he's probably going to be here in a little while, broadcasting from downstairs out by the ocean, because they are staying in this hotel right on the ocean.

But I decided from my class, I was not going to risk not being able to see all of you clearly, or my text, because it's still kind of sunny out there. But I did have a fun time just now. I was preparing, I came down here to prepare, and then I had a meeting with some of our, some of the personnel, including Geshe Michael, are in town.

So I had some meetings here today, and I managed to jump in the ocean for like 20 minutes. That's right outside their hotel, which was... In your suit.

Well, I just actually mentioned to somebody, when I retire this suit, that's how I'll go. Good. Thank you all for joining Schwentzang's Tower.

Thank you for your emotional and financial and enthusiastic support of the Diamond Cutter Classics organization. We really love you and need you and want your participation in every aspect. All of you who translate for us, putting this in other languages, we could not do what we do without you.

Our tech team and many other people who support us in many ways. We're grateful for you all, and please keep coming. So today we have, up first is me, and I'll be sharing with you, I think this is the third or fourth in a row, team class of Ratna Mala, the Nagarjuna text that I'm working on.

And then I'll do the 15 minute discussion with you. We'll have Petrie World News, and then Adam's text will be up for another team class. So I hope it's fun.

And we have really interesting and exciting new ideas for you. Cued up. Old ideas.

New ideas. Nagarjuna lived... Old ideas.

Yeah. When did Nagarjuna live? I don't know.

200 AD. So 1800 years ago. Old ideas.

I mean, relative to the world, existence of the universe, it's super new. All right. Here comes a quiz.

This looks like it might be the one. Let's see what happens. Yeah.

Okay. I got easy questions for you today. We haven't covered much different material over the last couple of classes.

We're going pretty slow, which I think is really fun for us mixed nuts because we get to really poke around in some of the nuances of translation. I thought about doing something different for this class, like reviewing where we've been so far in this text. But then I decided that since I am so passionate about translating, like, you know, just the art of bringing one language into another, I think it's nice if we just focus on that process for my classes as much as we can.

So we'll try to move forward a little bit further in this text. And then when we get Keshe Michael back for the next class with Ratnamala, we'll go back over the stuff that we work on together as a team and see where we were right and where we could improve. Everybody feel free to chime in in the chat or verbally as you like.

Interrupt me as much as you want. If you interrupt me, speak slowly. So that Aldo and the other translators, Ivo, and I can't see other interpreters right now, but can translate you.

What is the problem with the Vaishnavites' beliefs if Vishnu were to do something like create the universe? Well, then he couldn't be permanent, could he? That is a problem, isn't it?

Yeah. Because why couldn't he be permanent? Because he would have to change or move in order to create the universe.

So when we say permanent, what do we kind of mean? We don't necessarily mean forever. Unchanging.

Yeah. So there's a common word in Tibetan that means that. What's that word?

Takpa. Yeah, takpa. So we have this Tibetan word takpa.

What is it in Sanskrit? Nitya. Yeah.

And it's often translated in English translations. I'm not sure about the other languages, but in English, we often see it as permanent. And in English, permanent really means that something lasts forever.

And that's just part of it. Geshe Michael, one of the beautiful things that he's done for us as a translator, is made it clear that when these ancient masters say nitya or takpa, they're saying something that stays the same as it exists. Unchanging.

So yeah, if Vishnu performs a function, he must be momentary or changing. If he's changing, he can't be permanent at any point, because how the heck could something be changing at certain times and unchanging at other times? That's what the text says, basically.

Is Adam here? Adam, for how many moments of time does a changing thing endure? No.

He might be preparing his text. No. Yeah, good.

Thank you. Not two. But not two is what the text says, but you're right.

Does momentariness have parts? And what are they? It's understandable if you don't.

If it's a miss, it has to, right? I think that's right. Can you guess what those parts might be?

Well, don't they usually break down into two? Either moments of consciousness or moments of time? Isn't that how they do it?

Simpler than that. Simpler than that. That's good.

That's a great... Moment before and moment after. We're talking about time.

Oh, sorry. Yeah. Gibson was on the right track, and Upala, you are too.

Beginning, duration, and ending. Yeah, exactly. Good, good, good.

And what are those in West Chinese? Ne and jik, usually? Usually, yeah.

And in this case, you want to guess what jik might also be? Instead of destruction, they're saying the end here. Ta?

Yeah, yeah, ta. To, u, and ta. I forget, you said ki, but yeah, in this case, he's been saying...

He's going to start saying to, so... Okay, cool. The beginning, middle, and end of what?

Of momentariness. We're going to have to... This is interesting, Ben.

Thanks for asking that. We're going to have to figure out exactly what they mean when they say, kei jik. Excuse me.

Okay, it seems like maybe kei jik could mean momentariness, but sometimes it might just mean moment, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's even more complicated than that, because it seems to be going back and forth a little bit between those uses of the word.

Okay. Let's all look... We'll have to have the s in the end.

The middle. Oh, no, it doesn't. It doesn't have to have the s.

That's a good point. Although it keeps... Oddly, yeah, I'm interested to see why, because I feel like it has that even when it's not.

I think if you take the saw off the end, it's no longer necessarily middle. It could be start. Interesting.

I'm going to look it up in the dictionary real quick. I just did. I don't know if Paul is right.

U with the s means middle. Yep, yep. That's the one that means, like utsang and stuff.

Yeah, utsang, yeah, same. I don't think it means head in that case. Right.

Cool. All right. Yeah, it does.

Okay, good job, everybody. Now I know the level at which I should be making quizzes. I mean, I'm learning.

It's only been seven years, so give me a break. Stop sharing that. Whoa.

All right. I'm trying to share this text with you all now. Get that out of there.

Where is the text? Get that out of there. Can you guys see it?

There we go. Yes. Okay.

So here's where we all left off last time. We were talking about momentariness. It's a translation of kechigma.

He's saying it both ways. And we were talking about whether or not Vishnu could be both changing and unchanging. We're debating that.

And we realized how silly it would be to think that something could be both changing and unchanging, and what would that look like? And it was a lot of absurd consequences of that idea. Can you guys see okay?

Do I need to zoom in? We can see well. Okay, good.

See my text okay, I mean. So we've reached the next section, and it is a denial that momentariness has any nature of its own. Oh, and here's that introduction.

The fourth part. Oh wait, let's read the Tibetan. I'll read this one.

So Shivalashi, for those of you who don't know, means the fourth part has four. And Geshe Michael has asked us to include what the fourth part is, both in the heading as well as in the paragraph that's being translated, or the section that's being translated. So I said the fourth part, a refutation that momentariness has any nature of its own, has four parts.

The first one is So tempa means, in this case, teaching. Awesome. Uh-huh.

Keiichi? I think a moment. I don't want to call this momentariness in this context.

Cool. Or you could say moments. Yeah.

Okay, I think you're probably right. I think you're probably right. We'll go through this a little bit more and see.

So what's the la mean in this case? In, into, part? Yeah, right.

Although I would say it kind of means have here. I think it means have. Like the la yak ya, right?

Like, you know, that place has yaks. Yeah, but with ya, you need a la. Yeah, right.

That's what I mean. Yeah, right. I think that's what this la is.

I think it's, I think it's just saying chache instead of ya. Yeah. So anyway, yes.

La is part of saying possession. Yeah. The one thing that you can do, you can do many things with the la dun article in Tibetan.

So one of the grammatical cases of Tibetan, for those of you who don't know, is called the la dun because there's seven different case marking particles that all mean the exact same thing. The most common one being la. And one of the things you can do with that is show possession, like has or have.

So I think that's what's happening here. Also, che means with. Chache is a common phrase.

It's like, it's parts or something. Yeah, yeah. Like there are parts in a moment.

Uh-huh. If you want it to be overly literal. But I think the moment it has parts is great.

Yeah, so, and it probably is moments, but I'm just going to leave it like this for the moment. A demonstration. How dare you.

You mean for the momentariness? Look, I'm a dad, man. There's nothing I can do about this.

It's probably happening to Aldo already. We start making bad jokes. So a demonstration that moments have parts.

There's a kyaba here. Wait, hold on. Yeah, there is.

I wasn't necessarily there. Yeah, I guess so. I thought a moment must have parts.

Yeah, I like it. I'll come back and fix it later. Or you could say moments must have parts.

Probably. I'm going to go with that for now because there I am. And it makes sense with what's going to come.

Okay, here we go. What's gakpa? Someone who doesn't know.

Hey, Tim. Tim comes bearing croissants. I already ate two.

Tim, what's gakpa mean? How do you spell it? D-G-A-G.

Stop, to serve, cease. He said stop, cease. Yeah, good.

Here it means deny, refute. And since you have no idea what context, that was quite good. A reputation that what?

Cha-che-rang-shin-ki-dru-pa. I haven't seen the chat. A reputation that having parts exists through any nature of its own.

Yeah, good. I said, in this case, I said those parts because I know what's coming. Here's something out of left field.

It's a long one. Somebody that's not Tim, what's gakpa?

[Говорящий 2]
I don't know. Reputation.

[Говорящий 1]
Thank you, Gyalse. Thanks for playing along. Rang-shin-ki-dru-pa, Gyalse.

I'm not trying to pick on you. Has no self-nature. Yeah, good.

Has a self-nature. Some nature of its own. Has a self-nature.

Yeah, good, good. Ngopo. Ding?

Yeah, good, good, good. Here. Everybody knows this, but you might not know it in this word.

Hold on a second. One or many? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sorry. I'm not trying to silence you. I just wanted to let somebody else say it because everybody, because I already know you know it.

[Говорящий 2]
I mean, we hear that a lot, don't we?

[Говорящий 1]
Yeah. Where would the neither come from here? Oh, you just busted in all serious, did you, Gyalse?

A repetition that's a self-nature of their own. Using the reasoning that things are neither one nor many. I translated chikdang to drel kitensik as the reasoning that things are neither one nor many.

But I'm open to other translations of it. Drel is fine, like Ward said. Yeah, I think that's good.

You know, you don't want to say it's free from being one or many. Not and, neither. Right.

I would say that it's or, one or many, myself. Things are either one or many? By using the things, by using the reasoning of one or many.

Because you have to agree first that things are one or they're many. You agree to that baseline, that those are the two. Oh, that's cool.

And then you go on further to see that things are neither. But I think the reasoning itself is one or many. What's the drelpa doing?

Yeah, that's the problem, is the drel. It's a title. It's a name.

Yeah, it's free of those. It is. It's unencumbered by being one or many.

You could say that if you wanted to. I wouldn't, I'm just elaborating. Yeah, right.

To answer your question, I'm open here. And I even suspect that people can go their direction here with it. I do personally feel that translating it with the drel as being kind of not that or free from being that.

So Adam, you asked. That's why I would say neither one nor, neither nor. Yeah.

[Говорящий 2]
Yeah, I just see it a lot. Obviously in the South Chantica stuff where they talk about yin, lack, chin, and it's either, you're either talking about something as it exists as one or many and the neither kind of slips it up because in the higher systems you're refining, you're refuting that it could be either. Right.

But they still refer to it as one or many in the second school. So that's just why I was kind of.

[Говорящий 1]
Yeah.

[Говорящий 2]
In the second school, like in the second school, it has to either be one or many, and you don't really start to call it neither until you hit Majimica.

[Говорящий 1]
Interesting. But do they still call it cheek to Joe? That's, that's why that is kind of why I like was.

It's an interesting, I mean, I'm really glad you brought it up because I think it's. It's interesting. And it's interesting to study all of this stuff with the perspective of studying, of being Majimica Prasangika, or that it's like there are, as far as I know, there's not really schools, at least in Mahayana traditions where you're like, we're going to, you know, we really believe in the Sautrantika approach.

You know, it's like, so it's like that. I suppose there are schools that are. Yeah.

Yeah. Like Sautrantika Prasangika schools. I know what I mean is like, yeah, there are people who don't look at Buddhism through the other Mahayana schools that don't look at Buddhism through the lens of.

Of Majimica. Maybe. Maybe there are who are strictly mind only.

I got to bust in less seriously next time. No, no, I was kidding because I called on you before, but you weren't here yet. You're probably still putting your tie on.

That's it. I called on you about something, something that we had talked about previously. A full Windsor takes a little longer.

That's why I've never had one. No, actually, I have one, the Tim tied for me that's in a Windsor. He did it.

He tied it for me like 11 years ago or something. I'm still in. The 1.5 Windsor takes twice as long. One and a half times, technically. Yeah, so anyway. I'm sticking with cheek tongue to draw.

I'm sticking with the draw here, but I think the research, by the way, does offer using the translation. Neither one or many repeatedly for cheap to drill. Cool.

It's in my coconut, although I didn't look it up when I did this particular translation. Cash in my calls. Translations have affected me very much.

As we would all expect. What's a good reason? The reason not to say things.

Yeah, yeah, good. I need to learn about that. Anybody that the world possesses some kind of end?

Yeah, good. And when I translated this section, I hadn't looked ahead. And I said the reason the Buddha did not speak about the extreme view.

But yeah, this is now there's questions. Uh huh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

One of the things he didn't talk about is the end of the world. This is it doesn't exactly mean that. But we're going to get into it right now.

So it's just a silly thing that you didn't mention that I think is cool. Is that the previous Tennessee? Just Tennessee.

I just I think it's cool the way it works with that. That the verb got by the denying is done by intensity. Right.

It says 10 sick key. So the k y i s shows you that what? What gets rid of you thinking of having parts as being self existent is the the power of that 10 sick that reason.

Yeah, that's great for those of us who are still learning Tibetan grammar. Usually what comes before this kind of particle, a key or a key. When it has the S at the end is the thing doing something to whatever comes after or because of what comes before it, then, you know, the effect is after something like that.

What do they call it? What is it? What do we call it?

It's the agenda case or sometimes instrumental or instrumental. I like it. I like instrumental.

I like it. It's not too bad. The agent, the doer.

Yeah, that makes sense. Yes, I'm curious. I'm like, at first glance, it seems that checked in, Todd, then would be that the world has an end.

Speak about the end of the world. Yeah, you can say or that the world has an end. Yeah.

We're going to speak about. Oh, I found what you had there. And it said the extreme view possessed by the world.

I didn't see you change it. Sorry. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I didn't look back. I actually realized what this meant when I went later further on in the text. But I was thinking of Todd's extreme view.

But I was wrong. Because that came up so many times in this book. Is it spelled the same?

I think it is. Yeah, yeah, I have. Yeah, but I have a hard time remembering.

I remember things by sound and I often have a hard time remembering when it's spelled differently. When it sounds the same. Oh, no, view would be.

Extreme. He asked about not view. Yeah, yeah.

Obviously, I'm not hearing very well. No, like extreme. I mean, view is certainly taught like LCA.

But in this particular text, we've been using this word to refer to the extreme wrong views that the middle way is between. Or the end, as you just had in your homework. Now, yeah, now it's that.

We're just getting to the first uses of it as end here. In fact, that homework question was from parts that we didn't hit yet. I was having fun.

So I am going to switch these two moments. That moment has an end. So, OK, I'm not so sure about this translation of the root text.

Let's see somebody read it for me. Would you just for my own sick fulfillment, leave the Sanskrit showing if you can. Oh, of course.

Yeah, that's cool. I shouldn't do that. I see Jack is here.

Hi, Jack. Do you want to read for us? Yeah, sure.

I can try to read his verse. Sure. OK, thank you.

Starting at G. Yeah. G.

G. G. G.

G. G. G.

G. G. G.

G. G. G.

G. G. G.

G. G. Oh, there's a jitar here at the beginning, so I feel like it's a question.

Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

Hmm. Yeah, that's for the oh, somewhere.

[Говорящий 2]
Yeah, yeah.

[Говорящий 1]
And then the the order is different with the cushion, Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So I think this, we're going to go to the English or you guys want to do a little more? Whatever you want. Let's keep going.

I like it. What's triatma? Three.

It has three, is three. There we go. Three cells.

Yeah.

[Говорящий 2]
Three cells.

[Говорящий 1]
Atma, dak, the famous Sanskrit word that everybody knows. Yeah. What's the vat?

The vat should be like a chin, right? Isn't it the cheer? I guess so.

I don't know. Vat means to have, doesn't it? Possess?

Oh. Like bhagavan. Well, oh, it's tvaat, tvaat.

So it's tvaa. And I believe that at makes it, should be ablative. So it's the cheer is the T at the end.

Because of that, ablative is sometimes right used as a reason, often. Where is it from? Yeah.

From. Yeah. Yeah.

Because of it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

And I guess it's, this is, this kshanaiya, sorry, kshanasya is the genitive for momentary. So it's like having moments, right? So it's kecik nepa, residing in moments, probably.

Moments is had by moments. And then, yeah, evam, evam. Wait, is it the moment has a blank, the moment has a blank?

Yeah, moments. Yeah. And lokas, jiktan?

Jiktan.

[Говорящий 2]
The na must be the ma.

[Говорящий 1]
Lokasya. Yeah. Again is lokasya, again is genitive.

Here's the kshana again. Is that namnati? I believe, well, it could be accusative.

That's a good question. I could tell you real quick. Shteti is nepa?

Yeah, right, for sure, right? Stay, stedi, stay, stedi. Oh, yeah.

How about that? How's that? That I don't agree with.

All right, English, Nick, hit us. Okay. It is accusative, by the way, so shame on you.

Oh, thank you. It looks like the first line is right. Just how is it that moments have an end?

So there's that old yipa for have. So he's using this de-shen, de-tar, so I'm just playing around with the English so far until I get clear on what he's really saying by using the commentary, and I'm not... Jeet and de-tar go together, like yata, and there should be like a tata, it's like...

And ata? Yeah, it should be tata, but I don't know. I don't see it.

Yeah, I don't see it either. They go together. It's like, how is it?

This is how it is. Yeah, so that's interesting, where that might help us. So well, because I said well, because now it's starting with a de-shen, like in that way, but it's not really in that way.

Tok ma u tak. So tok ma is the beginning, u is the middle, as we've discussed many times. Tok is like, look at or examine or think about.

Wait, why because? From the next line, maybe? Cheer?

There's a cheer here. Yeah, yeah. I don't know why.

So I think it might not go there, but I was just playing with it. I actually did have it originally down here, but I don't know, I still need to play with it. So this is why we're working on it together.

I think it's this. In what way do moments have an end? In the same way as they have a beginning or middle, if you think about it.

It's something like that. I think so. De-shen like that.

Aha, in the same way. I see what you mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, in the same way. But the tak. Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

Yeah. Well, hmm, the tak threw me off, just in the same way that as when, so maybe it's more like in the same way as when we examine the beginning and middle. Yeah, this, it's the same result as comes from examining the beginning of the middle would give you why there's an end to it.

It's something like that. I don't know how to write it, but something like that. Yeah.

Well, let's see. GuiltSubJ is going to help enlighten us. Yay.

That's why I'm here. You're GuiltSubJ? No, definitely not.

I could use help. I was going to write you a letter. Angry letter.

Stop being such a sarcastic word. It isn't the world. I mean, I think the world doesn't last a moment.

Right? The world doesn't last for a moment because it has these three parts. Yeah.

And that's the conclusion we're going to come to with all GuiltSubJ. Yeah. Because the moment has these three parts.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And that is what we found before. Actually just didn't come back and fix all this yet. It's interesting it shows NEPA because NEPA is usually what they use for OO.

Right. I know. I know.

But it's clearly not that here. And I think hopefully GuiltSubJ is going to help make that clear too. I'm sorry.

NEPA is what they use for OO? What do you mean? Well, sometimes it's K-N-A-G-E, right?

Instead of TOK, OO, and TOP. Yeah. Yeah.

Like the Abidani says K-N-A-G-E. Oh, yeah. Cool.

Sure. Right.

[Говорящий 2]
So it's interesting.

[Говорящий 1]
Start, stay, stop. Yeah.

[Говорящий 2]
Exactly.

[Говорящий 1]
And now it's beginning, middle, and TOK, OO, and... Interesting. Yeah.

Yeah. We're fine. So here we go.

I'm still... And I think he provides for us below a little bit why the Atman is here, why the Dock is here. But so I'm still a little bit, I have to, I mean, my memory, I did this in a hurry so I could surf for 20 minutes before my meeting with Geshe Michael, basically.

And he did a really good job. Oh, thanks. Tim's already riding through the waves.

Oh, I thought he was talking about your translation. Oh, thank you. Translation's great, too.

We certainly have this part clear enough that we would expect the commentary that we normally translate first to help us. Yeah, totally. Let's do that because I don't want to run out of time before we get there.

I want to guess at what Dock means from Ben Kramer, though. Oh, okay. Oh, you want me to guess?

Oh, it just means that it is a thing of three parts. Just that it is that. A kshana, an instant, is a threefold thing.

Entity? Yeah, essentially, right. It is a thing that has three parts, basically.

It is. It's three to two. Three to two?

[Говорящий 2]
Sorry, translators.

[Говорящий 1]
Ouch, my ears. Okay, let's move on to the next section. I am very...

I was going to ask Tina to read, but she's translating. Rebecca, would you like to read? I see Rebecca here.

Hello. Hey. Nice to see you all.

Yeah. Nice. Thank you.

So, kshana. What does that mean? Yeah.

Some jerk. Some, you guy may say. Some kook.

No, it's just what they say is kooky. Yeah, yeah, right. That's a good point.

Don't shame them. This mak, it goes with the k'chik, right? It's k'chik ma, it's not k'chik mak'e.

It makes sense to me. K'chik ma. Kala.

Oh, interesting. I don't know. It definitely has in this, in recently in this text, the ma went with k'chik.

But I don't... Let's find out. In this case, I'm going to stick with what I think it, what I thought here.

But let's see if we can, let's see if we can make sense of it. And the next line, Nick, it does say jitar k'chik ma. So it might be.

Yeah. I know. Well, let's see.

Well, it doesn't start, but it lasts. No, that it's, yeah, it starts, but doesn't end. That's, I mean, it might be saying that.

Somewhat. Let's see. Someone may say that momentariness.

So ma, if it says ma k'chik, Hmm. K'chik ma k'chik ma kala. K'chik ma kala.

It almost seems like it's saying the starting of a moment doesn't end. There's no ending to the starting. Yeah.

Interesting. There's no ending to the no starting. No, to the starting.

Like what you said the first time. If the ma goes with the k'chik, which it may. So far we're saying someone may say that the starting doesn't end.

Yeah. Well. Maybe.

Let's see. Let's, let's find the rest of the sentence, right? Should help us.

So they, it, it, right. It is changing. Hey, because it's, Mindupa.

Right. It doesn't stay. In.

The two. Right. The two time.

In the two times. Oh, of. That, that very.

That very starting does not stay in the two times because it is, because it is. A changing thing. The other way around.

It is a changing thing because by not staying in the, either of the two times. It is a changing thing. I said, changing.

It is changing this. I was trying to be all mystical. What are the two times.

Well, here it seems to be talking about the beginning. And the end. And the end.

Yeah. It seems like. And.

Right. Like. Seems like it.

Yeah.

[Говорящий 2]
Yeah.

[Говорящий 1]
A lot bothers me. Yeah. Why is there a law?

I didn't, I just glossed over it in my rushing to get to the ocean. Yeah. I said, no.

And two it's. It's starting. Right.

Interesting. Yeah, I like, I like that. There's no.

The starting of momentariness. The starting of a moment doesn't end. Yeah.

Because it can't. I didn't two different times or something. Good.

Yeah, maybe. Because. Because you can't reside in.

Hmm. Because it says they need. Right.

It doesn't say. Yeah. I don't know.

What would be a way to say two different times. Yeah. So I don't know.

It doesn't. Is this. What about the not to in the homework?

Is that what it's talking about? Well, wouldn't it be momentariness in it? In and of itself.

Yes, yes, yes, absolutely. That could be what it's saying. Or that very moment.

Okay. By definition, moment doesn't, isn't two times. Moment has to be one time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Isn't two times. So then that is an argument, I think, for a being cake.

Chica. Kayla. Like, which is what it says.

There is no end to the starting of a moment. There can't be an end to a starting of moment because that very thing can't be in more than one. Time isn't in two times.

That. Well, that doesn't make sense. Because.

A moment is in is one. It's not two. It's not two times.

Oh, I see. Therefore, it's changing. So it's not so much that it does not.

Because. So the day is because it itself type. Because.

It. And not stay. Well, here you can say.

Here you can see changing that. Itself. It's.

Because of that, it is changing. I don't think the day is referring to changing this. Oh, you mean Mike momentariness.

Pointing back to the. But I could be wrong. Right, right, right, right.

I agree. I agree. That very thing.

Yeah. It. There's none to the starting of a moment because it meaning the moment.

Cannot stay in two times. It is. It is changing.

I don't want to say me. Right. Like, even though it's changing.

It's. It's. It's.

It is. Right. It is by nature, a single moment.

I mean, it's. It's. It's.

It's nature is to be. It is a moment. It resides.

It is. Yeah. It stays.

I mean, it has. It has to do with staying in that single moment. It is by nature.

[Говорящий 2]
Right.

[Говорящий 1]
Because it's one thing. It is one moment. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It is by. Nature. By its very nature.

A single moment. One single moment. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It is. This threw me off.

Like. It seems like. Just.

It's just. Yeah. Yeah.

Right. Right. Right.

It is. It's kind of like, although. Yeah.

Some. Soft. This.

Yeah. Yet. It's more like this.

And although it is changing. No, no, it is changing. And then although.

Yeah, I agree. Yeah, it's not. Yeah.

Right. Oh, yeah. The law.

Verb. Yeah, because the do pay is justifying the meat. Yeah.

Therefore, I know. Yeah, I know you have to. Much more.

Otherwise. This is more clear. Okay.

Because it cannot stay in two times, therefore, it is changing. But that very thing exists, or by, I don't know. By its nature as a single moment.

It can be, I think it can even be, is, do moments change? Yeah, I guess that's what we're getting to, Adam, and that's what we're examining. It says it is changing.

I mean, the text says it is. Yeah, well, yeah, I guess kind of sort of the, just to harp on the philosophy, I guess, for a minute, and less on the grammar, yeah, it would seem that they come into existence and they go out of existence, but I don't know if you could say that they change. Well, I guess they go from being a thing that has just begun to being a thing that is lasting to being a thing that is ending.

I think you could say that same thing about an emptiness that anything possesses, though, too. Right. I personally happen to agree.

Yeah, it's going to deal with what you're saying, because look at the verb that keeps coming up after this. Yeah, it's starting to talk about changing. Well, it could be changed.

Yeah, it's, let's see. Let's see what I mean. You guys were all in the grammar.

My head was in the clouds. Literally. It is in the clouds.

Oh. Monty Python.

[Говорящий 2]
Oh, yeah.

[Говорящий 1]
Meaning of life. Yeah.

[Говорящий 2]
Well, it was in the circus too, I think. Anyway.

[Говорящий 1]
Good catch. Now I recognize that style, but I didn't catch it just by seeing it. All right.

Here we are. Oh, Adam, we're going to run out of time. I wanted to get through a little more.

Let's see. Adam, would you do me a great favor and read this next? Yeah, let's do it, man.

You have such a radio voice when you read Tibetan, man. That's great. No.

[Говорящий 2]
Casey Caseman.

[Говорящий 1]
Yeah. Okay. So now we're getting to him glossing the verses.

So this part we already looked at together. Just how is it that moments, probably moments. Things, I guess we could say, that we have to accept move into their latter parts.

Like, let's see. Here's his glossing. Their parts, parts of those moments, their parts.

They're changing. Right? Into their cheetahs.

Yeah. Maybe parts. Kalinga.

Have to accept. You got to say that. We got to accept it.

Law. Have an end. Cheetah.

Yeah. And then I agree with Ben's whoever said it, the correction above that it's not really well there it's, it's like just as probably changes later. So here we go.

Cheetah. There is an end. Addition to talk my tongue.

Your part. Talk. Ching.

Kalinga Tay. So we just said Kalinga means we have to accept. I don't think it's have to examine though.

Right, right, right, right, right. And have to. So this.

Oh, did I say that. Just examine. Yeah, yeah, you're right.

That was crazy. You totally. Just as we examine.

Where were we. Talk. Wait, I have a proposition for talk.

I know we're running out of time. I think it's obviously it doesn't mean examine or investigate usually but I think it here it feels like it means like ascertained or something like just how we figure it out. Because it seems like he's saying we've yeah and this is now it's really seeming like he's saying we've already understood.

Exactly. Yeah, I'm kind of saying it like that here. I just didn't.

I mean, that's what I was just as we examine. I'm putting it in the present tense but I'm thinking that way and let me know if you think it works. Maybe it would be more clear.

It could be something like just, I mean, we, we single out that there are beginning and middle. I don't think so. After the first line, it seems like he was saying there must be this because we already figured it out.

It's that or something like that. Yeah, just as we already figured out that these must be true to or something. Yeah, it makes.

That's what I understand it to be saying as well. So I'll change it later just for time. Yeah, just as we examined the director got the fact that it has beginning and middle parts.

Kalinga. We must accept it not have come to the chin there though. It's like who translated that.

We examined and we have to accept that. We have to accept it. Yeah.

So, and we have. Yeah. After our examination got to that, then therefore talk man have to be that.

We already, if we already accepted the first one, and we had, we had to accept that too. Yeah. According to the subject.

May. Artless. Yeah, no parts.

Nopal changing things. Me see page here. Well, yeah, it's impossible that a changing thing has charming, no parts.

No, it's not never hot. It's impossible. Because, oh man.

Yeah. Because there's never no, there's never not hot. No.

So it's all would mean hot. I guess you might call out of his great kindness. That's correct.

This to chat. And for this we owe him a raise. I'll just say he's, he's here somewhere.

He went out to dinner. He's, he's here and he's doing some work but he's not tonight because he is recovering from a surgery. And I verify that it's true that he, it's, it's better this way.

He's fine. He needs to rest. He does.

I, I'm wondering whether this says changing thing has no parts. Hmm. Yeah, yeah.

So, a changing thing. Artless changing thing. It's impossible.

There's a part of this thing. Yeah, because a part of this changing thing is impossible. That's a better way to say it.

Correct. Yeah, that's. Yeah.

You have to put what is what changing are functional for to logically be impossible. I don't know. Why do you say, I mean isn't changing inclusive of it's just a thing does it have to be changed.

Oh, oh you mean just poker I think always. I think, and I think, or it could be functional. It could mean it could never mean unchanging I think it would always mean it.

So so it is so an unchanging thing doesn't have part. Sometimes they're incorrect when they've got meditations on emptiness about parts, you mean like. Oh, yeah.

Hey, wait. That's where it's not. That's the time.

Your nose is up. Sorry, translators. We're jumping around a little bit.

I don't know. It does seem a little bit ambiguous. It's hard to say, though, this discussion about a progression in time seems to be above seems to be leaning on change itself, which strongly recommend or strongly implies function, changing things in the sense of working things.

Yeah, I was used as a reason. Yeah. And the whole argument started with whether or not Vishnu is doing something.

We're still talking about Vishnu. Right. I was just arguing with the statement that I'm changing things.

I like it. Um, yeah. Okay, let's see.

We have one minute. Let's see what else he said. This this covers the rest of the verse.

I'm going to get breeding Tibet. Consider the world. This part we got right, I got right the vessel and its inhabitants.

It's simple. It does not reside within a single moment that exists through some nature of its own. Because the very nature of its parts is to fluctuate through the three moments or something.

Let's see. rangi cha shei su gyurpa. So it's parts rangi cha shei su gyurpa.

I just translated as fluctuating. ke chig sum, those three moments. ki dak ni yin pey chir.

So this is where we're getting to the dak and he modified it with the knee. Is it? Is it three moments or three parts of the moment?

Yeah, it's a really, really good question. For some reason, it says ke chig sum. And that's also what the verse says.

Yeah. Well, I think, you know, three, three, three moments. Yeah, well, and I think that he's, that's what I was trying to say at the beginning of the class.

It seems like he's playing with ke chig a little bit, like, he's playing with the word, like he's calling the beginning a moment, but he's also calling the beginning, middle and end the three parts of a moment. There would have to be what was the Sanskrit again? Was it was three?

Was it three? Krishna? Krishna?

Something. Traya. Traya.

No, is this it? Yeah, well, this is the triatma katvat. So that, yeah, that's interesting, because that doesn't say the three, it says the three entities, it doesn't say the three moments.

Indeed. Indeed. And he doesn't the three atmans.

And he says ke chig sum gi dak ni. So it's like that. It seems like he's saying, I said very essence, very nature, which is reasonable, based on the Tibetan.

But what dak ni can be an entity too. Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah.

It's very much an entity. It's very, it's true, right? Like, that was a good idea of word to and everybody to bring us back to the Sanskrit because the Tibetan I interpreted in one way, but it does look more entity-ish when you look at the Sanskrit.

It's the very nature of its part. I don't think it's three moments. I think it's talking about tok ma e and ta, the three parts.

Of course. Yeah. But if a moment had a part, then you would be able to break it down into smaller moments, right?

Yeah. And that's why I think he's just calling those moments. He's, I think that's what he's doing is breaking the moment in three moments.

Hard to articulate that, right, how to translate it from these words, but it does seem to be saying that it is a three-part thing. Because a moment changes between being these three things. Yeah.

You see, again, it's hard to articulate, right? But its parts are something that it is, right? The ram ki cha, its parts are something that it becomes, right?

Over the course of a moment, these three things. It's its dot, right? It is that over the course of time.

It is those three things, the beginning, the one, and. It's just quiet. Yeah, I think you're right.

Visible. Ram ki cha she su gyur pa, it is those three parts, that three entity thing is its parts or something. It becomes them over time.

Those entities are the three parts of a moment. It's, yeah, it's basically, what is the kirpa doing? It's saying it, it becomes them, right?

It changes. Yeah, I think so. Or it could be constitute.

Yeah. I checked the Chinese translation. They say if you, yeah, you take the moment of the middle, you can always separate and break them into the three entity moments.

So there is no nature of the one, one, ne pang. You say here, ge ji, ji rang sheng qi ne pang mi. So you couldn't say that the middle part of the moment have the nature, because you can always break them into the three.

Right. Oh, because the middle part also has a beginning, middle and end. Yeah, but it doesn't say middle here.

Unless they're translating nature as middle, which, which it could be. Yeah, the staying part. That's messed up.

That's messed up. And if they can't do it. We can't do it.

That's the thing. He's playing grandpa. I don't think so.

That seems like what the Chinese is doing. That's, that's messed up. I know we need Geshe Michael to weigh in.

Chinese, they say abiding. There's no abiding moment. Yeah.

Oh, they do say abiding. The abiding. Oh, yeah.

All right. What do they use? Oh, you're asking about the Chinese?

Zhu. Zhu. Yeah, they use the Zhu.

Shishuna, save us, give us the answer. Oh, thank you guys. Thank you for being confused together.

That's cool. I think we've learned some stuff. Hey, Lydia.

She can't hear me. She can't. All right.

Yeah, we made some progress. We need a little help. And that that potential Chinese different translation of NEPA really threw a curveball at me.

As we were saying before, like, usually, the three parts are ke jik ne. Ke jik, right? Start, reside, and stop.

Start, stay, stop. And then we've been using tok ma u and ta. So totally different words for beginning, middle, and end.

And then what I thought we were doing was using NEPA as a verb, meaning it doesn't stay in any of those. And it really seems like that, to me. But now we need a geshe.

We need a geshe. Because, you know, probably, you know, how many of us are here? The 228 of us, if we stared at this for another hour, we could probably get to the bottom of it.

Especially now that Sushumna is here. But thank you, guys. Thank you for helping to clarify so much of that.

You made it possible for me to surf for 20 minutes, and still come to some conclusion. Yay. I'm talking to Michael.

Actually, he knows. I was late for the meeting because I didn't see the hand signal to get out of the water. So we have another seven minutes to discuss worldly applications of this.

So how does this affect either the vessel or the contents of the vessel? Anybody, would you like to share your thoughts, how this impacts you in any particular way, or how you might find this applicable to your life? I have a hard time.

You might be able to connect this to surfing. Probably. But maybe the beginning, when does the wave start?

When do you catch the wave? It is like that. When are you in the wave?

Are you actually ever in the wave? Definitely. I'm trying here, man.

I'm trying. I like it. Is the starting of a wave ever stop?

That's really interesting that you brought it there, actually, Tim and Upal, because I was dreaming last night. This is very interesting. I was dreaming last night that I was late for this class, and I wasn't prepared because I was surfing.

And I was catching really awesome waves in a river. It was like really weird color green. It's true.

There is no beginning of a wave, I guess, when you're in it. It's just this constant fluctuation. I like to think about when you look at a river, and I think Ben brought that up last time, you can never really find exactly where is the river.

And so I think that that's kind of how you can think about a moment. You can never really find where a moment begins, resides, or ends. It's this constant flowing process like a wave or a river.

And I feel that that's where Gyaltsabje and, of course, Nagarjuna are trying to take our minds by describing this section. It's almost zen koan-ish. When you study this particular topic, I think it helps to put your mind into a state of realizing that the way that our minds divide, we need to survive.

We need to divide things into these kind of sections, like with a beginning, a middle, and an end. And things appear to truly exist that way, when we do that, that it's actually just kind of an illusion. And truthfully, we're just flowing through this constant moment that's not really a moment, because it defies the definition of a moment.

And then we get into Nagarjunian philosophy, where we realize that it's all wrong, the way that we see the world. Yeah, I think there's often a separation too, between I think we all know that we get caught up in thinking that everything's happening outside of us. And there's kind of no interplay between ourselves and the world that we experience.

And I think the experience of past, present and future, it's all conceptual, right? And then when you're looking at when you're taking in like a direct perception of like a wave or say Vishnu. And there's kind of this mix that takes place.

And you're mixing conceptual thought and direct perception. Like you're mixing wrongs in and cheats in. And one way it helps me kind of just remember the fact that like, yeah, I'm like a key player in this whole thing.

You know? Yeah, that's the fun of for me to like Nagarjuna's big achievement for me so far is to keep showing me that like, you know, these designations like the beginning of a moment or the end of a moment is all our story. It's just our story.

And that's what's so cool about helping me personally to understand that karma is real. Because if karma just means or if seeds just means, look, all the stuff you thought is really stuff is labels that your mind is putting on it. So if you just need to hack the source code and figure out how to put the particular labels that on things that your mind happens to be putting, check it out.

There's a whole body of literature by this guy Buddha who's going to tell you how to do, you know, it's so cool. And we can logically get as far as we just are now of like to see like, look, a beginning, middle and end of a moment seems like it's real. But when you really examine it at all, you realize that it's only your mind's designation.

And everything happens to be like that every single thing that you could possibly ever see, or experience is just that, like, it's just your mind designating it to be whatever you think it really is. And that's emptiness. You know, in a sense that it's not the thing you thought it was.

And I don't know, it helps me a lot. And I think that the garden is doing, I prefer the term jailbreak jailbreak reality. Cool.

Cool. I like it. It's one more minute.

Does anybody else want to chime in? If not? I mean, I don't know where to go from there.

Practical applications is this, you know, Geshe-la has all these tools for hacking that source code. So unfortunately, we can't, as far as I know, you don't exact there's not a clear way to logically prove the way that we plant seeds is through being kind and cool. But it seems to really have changed my life.

So if you haven't tried being nice yet, go out and give it a shot. Go out and love somebody really hard. Just love people and hug them and stuff and see if it helps.

It's time for the Peachtree World News. Yes, there is. Thank you.

Where are you? Are you in a hotel? Yeah, I'm in Tim's room.

That's cool. Son, I'm going out there too, because I'm freezing. He has the AC blasting in here.

And I'm in. Yeah, this suit isn't keeping me warm enough for that. How much?

I know. I can understand. So yeah, send my regards to Tim.

I understand the dynamic. I have had to do the same. Tim's room is a very popular location to have classes and broadcast.

Okay, so I will present a little bit of what we have for you all today. And anyone who needs, you can go to the bathroom, get ready for the next class. And in the meantime, I'll be presenting very cool news.

A few days ago, I got an email from Geshe-la saying that Ben Kramer, he had a meeting with Murli, as far as I understand, Murli is a person in India. And they are both working in a new version of Gopher. Gopher is this incredible database searching tool program that many of you may be familiar with.

You can put on it like tons of documents, and it will help you find exact like words and phrases that you're looking for. And it has been extremely, extremely useful for all the work that MixNuts translators are doing. And there are some exciting news because a new version is going to be ready soon.

So just letting you know something is coming up. And soon I'll be contacting Ben Kramer to try to set an interview with Murli as well. Just letting you know this in advance.

Okay, I want to talk about the upcoming events for September. Very, very soon. The second Reforestation Summit is about to start in Diamond Mountain.

We talked about it. They are doing very well. They gather the people they are about to have the event.

So we just want to remind people it's happening and wish them the best of luck with this event. Thank you for what you're doing. And we hope we can see a little bit at least of the results in October during the next big retreat with Kesha Michael.

Okay, after this event on the 7th, oh sorry, on the 4th, Sabrina from YSI is going to be leading these Drops of Wisdom on YSI. If you're interested to follow, you can find more information or sign up following the QR code. And on the 7th, Errol is going to be teaching the Inner Kingdom in Mercer, which is based on some of Geshe-la's teachings during his three-year silent retreat.

After that, and very soon as well, we have the Innovation Retreat. We talked a little bit about that last, actually Stanley, our friend Stanley talked about it, Chang Tang in Asia. He talked about it, and they're doing something very, very cool.

This time in Diamond Mountain, they are opening the group for also for English speaking people. And if you would like to participate, they're going to be meeting in Diamond Mountain and Geshe Michael will be teaching some of the classes. You can follow the QR code to sign up or to gather more information.

Because the audience are different. Last Saturday, Stanley talked about it, but the audience are different. Today, we are mostly in a suitable timing for Asia, we want to show you the video that they prepared for you.

So we have, they made a wonderful video, and we hope you can enjoy it and get inspiration from it. It's very, very powerful to do any retreat near the place where great people did their retreat. And I think if you are able to do this retreat this weekend, at the Dunhuang location, you are very, very lucky.

Why are all those caves there in Dunhuang? Because for many centuries, people went there to do their retreat, then your mind becomes much more quiet. And you can hear great, great ideas because great, great ideas are often whispered.

And I have to say one thing, to learn to hear the creative voices in your mind is the biggest fun thing in your whole life. So there you go. That's gonna be happening on September 12.

And just after that in October, we're gonna be having this free retreat in Diamond Mountain. Yeah, you can follow the QR codes for the innovation retreats. And then as well in Diamond Mountain in October, next month, after, you know, these events in September, there is going to be the pre retreat getting ready for the retreat Geshe Michael is going to be teaching over there.

Yeah, also, our friend Gielse was saying that September 1, there is some classes on Master... September 6. Okay, and if you are interested, please talk to her.

For that, I don't have a poster yet, but we can we could show it next Saturday. And then of course, October 6, this pre retreat and October 11, the retreat. Just as a reminder.

And now, for today's interview, we want to talk about something very cool that happened in Guadalajara last weekend with our friends from Green Stretch Pen. And I can see on the screen, Aisha and Anatole. So if tech table can help us to pin or spotlight them, we will like we have just a short video, why don't we show the video and then we start talking with you guys.

Thank you so much. Okay, those are just inside videos that I got from different people. They all share their videos.

But luckily, we have here actually Aisha and Anatole. So they can tell us what happened and what was it about? How are you Aisha, Anatole?

Hi Jacinto. Hi Hassel. Good to see you.

Good to see you. So can you tell us a little bit? What was this event about?

And what happened there this last weekend? Can you tell the story? Okay, um, we had an event hosted with the government.

So you know, our project is trying to work with the government. It was a prediction. Or how to say, I guess Michael encouraged us to work with the government.

So we went into the office of the government in Zimbabwe. And we asked them if we can do anything to help anything at all. We said that we can sweep, we can rake the park, like just give us something to do.

And last year, they gave us this opportunity to do a yoga festival. So this year, when it came up again, around the same time, they said, now let's cancel the yoga festival. We don't want to do that.

But next month, can you do another kind of event? And we said, yeah, we're gonna do like a healthy lifestyle festival. So something like that anyway.

Yeah, the idea was to invite all kinds of people, not just people that practice yoga or have some connection with yoga only. So as our, our public is also aimed to to reach school teachers, kids. So the idea was to invite everybody to have a healthy lifestyle, not only the yogis and yoginis.

So then the government got excited and they said we can put, we can put like a Tianguis market. Yeah. They started putting all these booths up and people started, we started inviting people to do healthy food, healthy, like electrical transport, like electrical skateboards.

Company came, all kinds of booths, we had about 10 or 12 different people exhibiting. And sharing healthy food and healthy products, healthy things for their life. It was very fun because they could also get to know each other and sell what they have to share.

And especially the, the healthy food was really a hit. Yeah, and we showed our solar power. And, you know, it was just like, and the fun thing was that we reached the public.

So the idea was to make an event to start creating community, and also to maybe offer people an opportunity to, to get some contact with the, in a way the ideals of Green Stretch Pen, which is the healthy eating. I saw you guys preparing the smoothies, and of course doing some asana and also dancing. But what was it about that?

I see people like doing little balls of what is it? I don't know. There's a beautiful project that started here when a lot of fires started attacking our forests here.

So there's a workshop that we have for kids. We have a lot of booths, and many of them had also workshops where people could go do something ecological, something healthy, something fun. And the kids were invited, also adults to make little, they call it seed bombs.

They gather crazy amounts of little dirt bombs with seeds inside, and then they go with a plane. The government goes, helicopters and planes, and they throw all the bombs in the forest. So they can multiply the trees that disappear with this crazy fires that have been getting this amazing, beautiful forest more little every year.

That's very, very cool. So now, let me ask you something. Were you, basically what you did is like you helped to organize a whole, how do you call it?

Like a Dharma festival? Basically, you organized the whole set in the park? It was in a park?

Yeah, it was in, it was in like the biggest park in Zapopan here. And which one? Metropolitano or which one?

Oh, no, it's actually, this is the park for girls and boys, they call it. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's a newer park.

And it's right next to the police. It's like a lot of government offices, police station. And it's amazing.

It's right next to the baseball stadium. And they have a really, really fun skateboard park. It's always busy with huge playground, big auditorium to do all kinds of shows and basketball court.

Yeah, it's really beautiful. It's really well designed. And it actually starts getting busy like around, we found out around like close to night at night is when everybody starts coming over.

So it's really, it's really something great happening over there, a good sense of community already. So then we just added our Dharma vibe. We put actually an exhibition of images from the King of the Dharma.

And they were flying over the park. And so people stopped to look at them and read the messages like, meditate every day, do yoga, sing sometimes, dance sometimes, find your heart teacher. So people really got to interact with those beautiful images.

Beautiful image. It was like a huge exhibition of Jason Capa in the middle of the park. The government was really happy that so many people came over to have a green smoothie, to have a veggie burger.

We were giving away electrical veg, we cooked veggie burgers with solar power. Yeah, we had yoga classes, dance classes, GSP classes. Even people on wheelchairs would come over and dance with us.

We had a live DJ for 10 hours. We had like a 100,000 watt sound system, 8 stop walkers in the ceiling. He was in heaven playing music for the whole park.

It was really a miracle. We brought like a thousand records. That's wonderful.

That's wonderful and great news. I'm so happy to hear really and to picture how you are bringing actually this wonderful wisdom and content into, you know, like a new different setting, like working with the government. It's so cool.

And you are doing it basically in Guadalajara, of course, Zapopan, but you know, they are, yeah, they grow up together. So now it's almost the same city, basically. So thank you.

Thank you so much for sharing and for doing these things. Soon it will be very cool if you keep sharing with us time to time, the news of what you're doing. And yeah, sending best wishes and lots of gratitude as well.

Wish you had been here. Oh, yeah, but I'm not in the city yet, but soon I'll be. Okay, we'll do another party for you.

That'll be cool. That'll be cool. Okay, so I think for today, that's it.

We're gonna go to our next class. Adam is ready. I see him coming out of like heaven or something.

Oh, good ball. What? Something.

All right. Let's go with you, Adam.