Ник Лашо — Книга 2: Ратнамала, занятие 30

[Говорящий 1]
Well, hello.

[Говорящий 2]
How are you?

[Говорящий 1]
All right, man. How are you?

[Говорящий 2]
Good, good. Fancy meeting everybody here. Good evening.

Good morning. Good afternoon. It's four o'clock where I am.

What about you, Nick?

[Говорящий 1]
11pm.

[Говорящий 2]
As you can tell by the background. Good. Cool.

Who's first tonight?

[Говорящий 1]
I believe it's me. Oh, exciting.

[Говорящий 2]
Okay, cool.

[Говорящий 1]
Let me make sure that's true, though. I've been wrong.

[Говорящий 2]
Okay. Where would you be without me to introduce you? Yeah, this says you.

[Говорящий 1]
Yep, yep, yep, I knew it. Give me one minute, and then I will put my quiz up.

[Говорящий 2]
You take your time. Exciting to have everybody here. Thank you so much for coming.

Thank you for participating in this program, supporting this program by being here, participating, learning together, coming up with exciting ways that this applies to your life for the discussion that happens an hour from now. Don't make poor Nick sit there and say, geez, nobody wants to talk. Have an idea.

Write it down. Scribble something down so that when Nick says, does anybody have any ideas, you were just waiting for him to ask.

[Говорящий 1]
You couldn't have.

[Говорящий 2]
Dr. Keisha Michael, good to see you.

[Говорящий 1]
Hi, how are you?

[Говорящий 2]
Very well. Wonderful. Happy to be here.

[Говорящий 1]
So how you guys got more handsome than before. Hand sanitizer. I buy from communes George.

Nicholas, let's hear some homework. All right, all right, here it comes. All right, this is the one.

Time between waves. I don't get to serve as much as you might hope I do. Although I went today and just got buried by huge waves.

Not good. Good. All that.

All right, let's give it a shot. 60 versus people are still showing up. Do we have our YSI friends here today as well.

I wouldn't call them friends, but they're here. That's terrible. That's more like family.

All right. We're talking about this book called string of jewels. And here's our quiz.

If we deny cause and effect exist, are we contradicting the conventions of the world? Maybe some came along and talked about this. And what concept is Arianna Gargina introduce here.

To make whichever point he's trying to make. Whatever direction. You got to ask Lindsay or.

Also often. Tim and Oscar also often remembers things from my texts. Of course, Ben does.

Somebody attempting to answer.

[Говорящий 2]
Looking for her notes.

[Говорящий 1]
I think. You would be contradicting. No, I think it'd be contradicting the conventions of the world.

They like plant crops and make. They harvest crops. Right.

They believe in cause and effect.

[Говорящий 2]
They do.

[Говорящий 1]
But of course. Being a middle way text. I think it's a little bit like the text.

By Arianna Gargina with guilt subject commenting upon it. They take the. And put our twist on it.

You want me to twist. Okay. As far away from the nineties.

Now, as the sixties. Where when I was in high school. So that's kind of.

Okay, well, according to, I'm going to give you a hint, the Middle Way denies that cause and effect exist through any nature of their own, but not that they exist at all. The denial that they exist through some nature of their own does not contradict convention as causes and results do exist in mutual dependence. So this is the concept that Ariya Nagarjuna was diving into.

Does this sound familiar?

[Говорящий 2]
We definitely should have gotten that one.

[Говорящий 1]
Yeah, I'm surprised. I feel like everybody's thinking about something else. You going to drive my truck?

Yes. It's made of real steel. You don't have to worry.

I want to drive that truck. Truck looks amazing. Stunners don't crash it.

Good luck. I guess Sushumna's the one who's going to crash it. The other two girls are okay.

Sorry, I'm sorry to interrupt. Okay. I'm surprised you guys didn't get that question.

Does anybody remember some of the examples that were given for things which exist in mutual dependence on one another? And if you can tell me in detail. It's short and long.

I think there is a problem. It's short and long. She said the Sanskrit is shorter and longer.

What's happening? Is it frozen? What are you guys eating over there?

I don't know, but it's making everybody silly. That's what I'm talking about. Anybody?

I think Geshe Michael said one in English. Can anybody translate what he said into Tibetan? Besides Geshe Michael, I know you can do it.

Oh, Raymond. Don't ask where and he only responds if there's money involved. Good job.

Anything else? Anybody remember any other opposites that were posited as being things that exist in mutual dependence? They'd say hot and cold, maybe.

What did I say? Maybe big and small? No, no, no, no.

It wasn't any of that. His bonus was big. My bonus was small.

[Говорящий 2]
Cause and effect.

[Говорящий 1]
Whoops. This wasn't it. There you go.

He described long and short and the light which comes from a butter lamp. Okay. All right, whatever.

What grammar cases are being used in those phrases? That's it. And the locative?

It wasn't all there. The seventh and the fifth. Well, we had longness, dear to gay, right?

Yeah. So that was the locative, the seventh, right? We had the locative.

What's the seventh case? How do you say it in Tibetan? We'll get to that.

Nice, nice, nice. So you could say the same for the rest. Okay.

Yes, I remember from the text. It was interesting. I answered it a little bit my own way, but this one, forget it.

I did that by accident. So it looks to me that this is the third case in the Tibetan, right? But the text mentions the seventh case because the Sanskrit is in the seventh case.

Yeah, okay, that's true. I mean, the Sanskrit is in the seventh. Seventh, yeah.

And then is this the third case, the Tibetan? Yes. Instrumental.

Yeah, it appears to be the instrumental. Oh, I see, yeah. Tibetan here, marme jungwe ushin.

Isn't this, and I'm a little confused because maybe, it's the ablative case in the Sanskrit. Is this still ablative case? Because is it like implying le jungwe?

And is that le me? It is implying that, but I would still call it the genitive. Okay, okay.

But it's a genitive of soul, and you can study that if you're interested in the works of the Quicksilver Literature student, Yangchen Drupad Dorje. Yeah. If you really can't sleep at night, you can read that.

Lek she jin wang, right? Yeah, to work through it back in the day. So, okay, so this is the sixth case in the Tibetan, because of the, okay, cool.

Learned something. Tibetan for fifth case, somebody besides word, because you already said the seventh case. Ngapo.

Yeah, but what did word say first? To say case. Yeah, good.

Nami ngapa. Okay, third question. So does the Middle Way accept cause and effect or not?

Yes. What are the copyists? You are from our sethna.

They said... The language says, when you say to exist or not, assumes that from its side. Yeah, when Rob Haggerty says that when Middle Way says it does exist, we're assuming from our side.

Good, and when we say it doesn't exist, we mean... Yeah, you got it. And then in this text, and I didn't think anybody was going to remember this, but one of the caveats is that they exist, but there's a lot of mental imaging going on, and I thought that was kind of a cool translation that you were using, Geshe Michael.

They exist and are creations of our minds. Things are established through connection. So that's the other caveat.

[Говорящий 2]
They say Middle Way, are we talking about Lower Middle Way?

[Говорящий 1]
Hase wants to know which Middle Way you're talking about. Whichever one he wants. No, because in Higher Middle Way, it's not the case that Ariana Grande says that there is no need to say...

Oh! By sound way. There is no need because we already know it's a lie.

He says that when we beat Baba Viveka, we beat him on the point that we don't have to say from his own side. That's true. Or he didn't have to say.

Ultimately, yeah. Yeah, so there you go. Yeah.

You have to add it. Maybe Nagarjuna is wearing a... I'm pretty sure this book, as well as the 60 verses, is from the perspective of the Prasangika school.

If you want to be a real prophet, you can say, oh, I guess Nagarjuna is not Higher Middle Way. Right. The ultimate Prasangika.

You don't even need to call him the ultimate Prasangika. Oh, yeah. So Geshe Michael gave a pretty cool translation of Thugpe Takpa here.

Anybody remember?

[Говорящий 2]
Made up by the mind or something like that?

[Говорящий 1]
Yeah. I think imaging was this one, right? I think...

Yeah, that was mental imaging. Thugpe Takpa, we all know what it is, right? What's it mean, Ben?

Labeled? Merely labeled? Usually it's Thugpe Taktsam when we say merely labeled, right?

Yeah.

[Говорящий 2]
So labeled with an idea.

[Говорящий 1]
This time you were saying a creation of your mind. You were saying it a bunch of times. All right.

Cool, that's it. Did you translate some lines? You didn't give me any lines to translate, and I didn't do it this time.

If I ever forget to give you some lines, go ahead and do it anyway. Of course. I almost always do.

You just figured you'd guess my words then if you didn't have to do it. Something like that. Jealous.

Jealous he's talking. Hang on. What is that?

Okay, I'm good. All right. Nick, do you want to just start with the paragraph here and just read it?

Cool, sounds good. Thank you, Geshe-la. All right, here we go.

Good. Okay. Good.

Okay. Let's translate it, Nick. What's a mikdu?

It's a mirage. Yeah, mirage like on the highway. If...

What's that? If there's water in the mirage. I think he's saying if you see a mirage of water.

Yeah, no. If the mirage were real water. Oh, if it were real water.

If the mirage were real water, then those who are near water... Yeah, when you get closer to it, who... Yeah.

And when you get close to it, who wouldn't see it? You'd have to see it. Why?

If the mirage were actually water, then the people who are closest to mirage should see that. They would have to see it. Yeah, they'd have to see it.

But if they are standing tag ring... People who are far from it. Yeah.

If... So this is not me. It's tempting to translate it as me, but it's not.

If the tag ring was, see a suk. If the people far away do see some form there, something physical there. They don't see anything at all.

Like they're not close enough to see that it's water. But if they're far away and they can see something, then it makes sense that whatever they are seeing from far away, the near ones should see it. They would see it more clearly?

Yeah. So those who are far away would see something. Those who are closer should see water.

Those who are far away would see a mirage. And those who are closer would see that it was water. Or the far away would see something.

And then when they got closer, they'd see that it was water. Now we're going to... That's a comparison.

Here's what we're comparing it to. You want to pick... This is a long one, okay?

Okay. Let me cut it up. Oh.

Let's do like that. You got a big list. I'm trying to see who's not translating.

All the translators have their... How about Tracy? Do you want to take a shot at it?

[Говорящий 2]
Sure. Thank you. Okay.

Okay, cool.

[Говорящий 1]
Nice reading, by the way. PE DE BZHIN means name. Just as in this metaphor.

Yeah, it's the same in real life. JI LTAR SO SO SKYE BA'OS The way that people who have not seen our emptiness directly... And you...

You tell me why I say the lie at the end of this first line could have been LAS. Oh, let's see. Oh, yeah, right.

From being far away from realizing suchness. Yeah. I see what you mean.

The non-Aryans, the people who never saw emptiness directly, are being compared to the people who are in the car looking at the mirage far away. What are they not close to seeing? Emptiness.

Emptiness, okay. They call it nyi, suchness, right? Tatva, okay?

But a weird miscarving, right? Yeah, that's... They're far away, okay?

DE ZHIG RTEN GYIS NI YANG DAG PAR GYUR PAR THOB NA And there's a very special meaning of YANG DAG PAR GYUR PA here, Nick. YANG DAG PAR GYUR PA It's not... They believe that the things in the world exist truly?

Yeah, yeah, purely, okay? So that's not a word that's usually used for seeing things as self-existently, but Nagarjuna's using it. They see things as pure, meaning they see things coming from their own side.

Okay, here. And it's very confusing, okay? So, like the people who are far away who don't see that what looks like water is just a mirage.

When you get closer, you realize that the water is just a mirage. But they are like the people who are far away, and they think they see water. They see things as coming from their own side.

Okay, who's going to read next, Uncle Nick? Okay. How about Emily Chan?

Ooh. She's the one who has a handsome husband, right? Absolutely.

No, my wife is. Nah, yeah, yeah. Maybe Lydia.

No. You have this echo that sounds just like this. Just a mirage.

Okay, cool. So Nick, let's go to the end of the line. Who had a nye we pak?

Those Aryas, those realized beings who are close. Yeah, the other close guy. They are close.

By the way, close to in English requires in Tibetan close and. Aha, dang nyewa. Yeah, it means close to.

So close to what? Well, they're close to suchness, and they're close to the mirage, or the source of the mirage. Well, what it says here is, these guys are close to suchness in the same way that we were talking about someone who's close to the mirage.

Or to the form. And sees the real, you know, sees that it's not wanted, okay? They see, if if if things if things existed through some nature of their own, then they they would have to see them.

Yeah, and this lay is disjunctive. But rather, but they don't. But they don't, okay?

Aryas are the close guys. If things existed from their own side, they should see it that way, okay? They are like the people standing next to the place where you thought you saw the water, but when you're close up, you can't see it.

You see it's not there, okay? It's a wonderful example, by the way. Okay, who's going to read, Uncle Nick?

I like your suit, Ben. I think this tops the win. Yeah.

Let's see. Oscar, let's see your new skills. They're not really new.

[Говорящий 2]
I think I forgot things.

[Говорящий 1]
Oh, good. Make me look better. He's back for too long.

Now he forgot everything.

[Говорящий 2]
Nice.

[Говорящий 1]
Please read the big letters here. Excuse me, are we going to finish the rest of that? Yeah, from Pakpa Nyamsha.

She's right, Nick. Oscar, can you start from Pakpa? Yeah.

[Говорящий 2]
Yeah, this is a tough one, Nick.

[Говорящий 1]
So, what's Pakpa Nyamsha? It's that meditation where they realize emptiness directly. Yeah, when you're in the direct perception of emptiness, okay?

To their sigpa. To their perception. Yeah, to their perceptions.

And that's very important. The more is very important. To their perceptions.

The senma of the difference between kyepas and pumis. The signs, or in this case, probably the organs that distinguish between women and men. Yeah, it means that the indicators, which divide a male from a female, okay?

chung se kyang me. They're not even there in the slightest. Yeah.

Because they are too ta nyewa. They're too close. Yeah, they're too close to even see the mikyu.

They're too close to even see them. It's an interesting part here, because they're talking about a person in direct perception of emptiness. They cannot see any normal object at all.

So they can't see distinctions between things either. Okay, so it's interesting for them. Because we've been talking about someone who from a distance sees something, and then they get close and they don't see it.

But what do they see when they get close? And there's certain things. Yeah, because the metaphor has two things going on.

One is, when they get close up, it's not that they see that it's something else. They don't see anything at all. So when you get close up means when you're in the direct perception of emptiness, you can no longer perceive any distinctions between anything, even so basic as male versus female.

Okay, cool. That's interesting. Very cool.

That one's very deep, and that one would make a nice class, Nick. All right, who's going to read, Nick? Oscar started.

Yeah, let's continue. Thank you, Oscar.

[Говорящий 2]
Nice.

[Говорящий 1]
What's it mean, Nick? Here is the second point from above, a denial that the parts of a person exist through any nature of their own. Nice.

So we finished the first section, which was, NGOS PA DE'I KHO NA NYID RTOG PA DANG MA RTOG PA'I PAS, a metaphor for either RTOG PA or MA RTOG PA DE'I KHO NA NYID. For either what? For realizing or not realizing suchness.

Emptiness, yeah. And now we're going to talk about how people's body and mind is empty of any nature of its own. So here we go.

I have a question for you before we go on. Do you remember, I guess it was maybe two classes ago, we were in a section called something about duality. It went to this, like it said.

Yeah. We translated it as duality, but then when we did that section, it didn't say anything about duality. I wonder if it was just specifically saying there are not the two, or like disproving the two of things existing, how they appear, or things not existing at all.

So what I do when I have a question like that, I make three percentage signs, which is to mark where I am. And then I'll search backwards, which means I have to change you guys. I'll search backwards for NGON NANG, which is the Tibetan for duality.

Okay, okay. And then I'll use this arrow up here to go backwards. And this is where the discussion was.

Okay. In that context was the discussion of the BAPJAK for NGON NANG. Cool.

This is a different section, I think. We can go back another one. Nope, that's all there is.

That's all there is. It must have been some other... Maybe it was NGON NANG.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. NGON NANG. No, there's no NGON NANG in the whole text.

Unfortunately, Nicholas, you don't get me to answer that. All right, I'll ask it again. I'll figure it out, because it was a different use of the word NGON NANG.

Maybe it was a different way to say it. Okay. Yeah.

I'm suspicious of the Sanskrit here, but we don't have time. I mean, if you can, please check it. Okay.

Let's go. Who's going to read? Let's see.

I better go guessing. Where is she? You want to come up?

Quick, quick, quick. Make a road for her. Make a road.

There you go. All right, here we go. This way.

There you go. Okay.

[Говорящий 2]
Okay. I misspelled.

[Говорящий 1]
By the way, Nick, I'm fixing these and not marking them. Right on. Okay.

Good to know.

[Говорящий 2]
Okay.

[Говорящий 1]
Let's take it slow. You can hang out here and answer irritating questions. What's a mirage?

[Говорящий 2]
Mirage.

[Говорящий 1]
Yeah, mirage. A mirage is chid dang daw. It usually has water.

Oh. In this case, it's. It looks like.

Yeah. No, it looks like water, but to me. It is not water.

It is not water. Nick, what's dindu? Well, yeah, the last time it came up, it meant in fact, or the fact that.

Now, actually, it can mean actually. Okay. So it looks like water, but it looks like water.

It's not water. In fact. If you talk.

Bread talks. Uh-huh. If you.

Chumayin. It is not water. Yeah.

Dindu. In just the same way. In just the same way.

Our pumbos. And by the way, he uses the dual here, and I like it. Our body.

Let's consider our body and mind. Dindu. They're not actually.

They don't actually exist from their own side. Right. But they nang jawa to that.

They appear as if they do. As if they're a self. Yeah, they do appear as if they exist from their own side.

Okay. And they appear to be that kind of a person or a self that comes from its own side. But in actuality.

There's no self. Yeah. So then you're supposed to remember what the water was, what the mirage was.

Who's the person close? Who's the person far? Right.

[Говорящий 2]
Who's the person close?

[Говорящий 1]
Yeah. And maybe even in the direct perception. Okay.

All right. Oh, wait. Goma Gelser says she wants to do one more.

All right.

[Говорящий 2]
Sumpany.

[Говорящий 1]
Yeah, now, again, in the Tibetan text, they'll say part three, and they won't tell you what it is. And we have a mixed nuts standard. We go find it and we'll put it in.

So here it is. Please read the big letters.

[Говорящий 2]
Just the big letters? Yeah. Good.

Good. Not corn. Would that be a pre nasal?

[Говорящий 1]
Not normally in front of a second column letter. If you don't get rid of the view that things exist, or don't exist. Well, now it's getting weird.

Now it's getting weird. You have to deny that things exist, or do not exist, or you're not middle way. You have to deny that things could exist, and you have to deny that they could not exist, to be middle way.

And if you don't learn what that means, korwa le midu. Do not free yourself from the cycle of suffering. I got a new word for korwa, it's called mortgage.

No, just kidding. I can't remember. Nick, who's going to read next?

Thank you, Gelsi. Gelsi, can you pick somebody? Leslie, can you pick somebody in the room?

We got the master YSI teacher in here. He's got a haircut, and he's got a microscope. No, just kidding.

You guys need a cursor also. Can I take a break? Good.

I wonder if the original is numba or lumba. I was wondering. Oh, lumba.

It is lumba. Okay, good. All right.

Now, by the way, somebody's making kind of a suggestion, okay? When I say mi gyu is chu... When I say the mirage is water...

When I say the mirage is water, and I'm thinking that way, and then I soma to that place... Then I get there, and... What really happens...

I think that's what I thought. What really happens is that ngar, there was chu, and now mi. Before there was water.

At present, there is... Okay, I'll say it again. You think you see water to a distance.

You come there, and you say, Wow, when I was half a mile away, it was water, and it dried up so fast. Okay, so he's still holding on to it. Yeah, there was water there, I swear.

And then I got close, and it was a hot day, and it dried up. Something like that, okay? Medbha shades inbani.

If you say something like that... Yeah, lumba. You're a fool.

Yeah, you're a fool, okay? But there must be a parallel in the arguments of non-Middle Ayers. There must be a parallel statement.

It was self-existent until I looked close, and it shifted. Just after I started looking close, it shifted, and it became non-self-existent. It definitely reminds me of debates that I've had at Diamond Mountain.

Okay, all right. Who's going to read that? McDonough, Earl, go on.

Earl's still reading, for sure. It's big. Who says it's too big and he's not getting paid?

Just read it really fast. Nobody will notice if you make mistakes. Where is my sweetie?

Oh, there she is. Okay. That nga ne is an idiom, Nick, you know?

Nga ne. From before? The water that you thought was there before?

It just means from the beginning. In English we say from the beginning, okay? From the start.

From the start to make. There was never water. Yeah.

They should do. Everything ngangs as if... Similarly, things which appear rangshin yodpa...

They're meypa from the beginning. They were not existent ever. Yeah, and then later they seem like a mikyu because they...

Oh, but later we realize they are rangshin meypa. Later we realize that they have no nature of their own, and they're like a mirage. There's a mistake in the Tibetan here.

Let me see. Which am is not allowed after che, Nick? Oh.

What's going on? It could be a dhamma. It could be pa'am, I don't know, but you have to check it, okay?

In the manuscript, okay? Okay. Or it could be just...

It could be... A word, interestingly, in this ancient language, it could be che pa'am. You see what I mean?

But we'll see. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Miki taba ji. Nye leng gi pungpo.

Or it should have been che pa'am, you see? Uh-huh. All right.

Nye leng gi pungpo rangshin gyi yur. When you say that your body and mind are... Taken out at birth.

Hold on. Yeah. Before it was rangshin gyi dupa.

Right, I see. Yeah, yeah. Now I'm following you.

Before, when you say body and mind that you've taken on, existed through some nature of their own, and then if after you saw that they weren't, or you're holding to them as not being, then you're pretty dull. Well, the idea is that a guy, before they go into their direct perception of emptiness, they say, my body and mind exist from their own side.

[Говорящий 2]
Right.

[Говорящий 1]
And after they see emptiness directly, they say, after I saw emptiness directly, during that time I saw that they didn't come from their own side. But that doesn't mean they didn't come from their own side before I saw it. Right.

Oh, I see. Got it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Got it? Got it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Completely, yeah. I mean, it's just paralleling the metaphor. It's convincing, and so is Nagarjuna.

Nagarjuna said, Yeah, yeah, that's pretty dumb. Dumb. Okay.

Yeah, it's really dumb. And I'll tell you something. If you are mongpa about dekho na nyi, you cannot drowa from korwa.

If you're a dumbass about suchness, then you cannot free yourself from the cycle of mortgage, the mortgage of pain. Yeah. So we got to make a new T-shirt called Dumbass About Suchness.

That could be a name of a club or something. Dumbass About Suchness. So who's next?

Earl, can you pick somebody? He can't see all the people. He actually ran away.

I think he threw up or something. Oh, poor Earl. How about Ana?

Ana, do you want to try? Yes, thank you. This one I don't know.

Please help me. True, true. True.

True. Wow. Nice.

Amazing reading. Nice. Thank you.

You must be word junkies. Okay. Now, Nick, huge, huge, huge section, and a huge, huge, huge concern of Arya Nagarjuna.

And other people are accusing him of shirpa. An nihilism? Of saying that nothing exists.

Yeah, they're calling him a nihilist, okay? And this is a famous, famous, famous reaction to his philosophy. People said, well, then what you're saying is nothing exists.

That's called ché. Say ché.

[Говорящий 2]
Ché.

[Говорящий 1]
The Diamond Cutter Sutra is Dorje chepa. And that's the active verb, ché, to cut. And when you make it non-active, it's ché.

So same verb, okay? So it means people who think that the world has discontinued. Ché.

It just stopped. Okay. De la chepa tawa nyepa mepa.

Hey, there's no nyepa about me, Nick. There's no problem of... We're not making the problem of saying that things don't exist.

Yeah. We don't have the problem that our views necessitate tawa, that things must have stopped. Okay?

Tawa. Okay? Okay, good.

And we're going to discuss the accusations against Nagarjuna that he was a nihilist, and he's defending himself and explaining why he's not a nihilist. He gets three sections. Here's the first one.

Tarpa toppa la. If you want a toppa toppa... To achieve...

In order to achieve liberation or freedom, you got to realize... You must realize the absence of these two. Yeah.

No, you may... No. You must realize...

Non-duality. I... Non-duality.

This is why I brought it up. I do not think it means non-duality here, because of the section. Yeah, we're just about to get there.

That's the next sentence. Okay. Let's see what his ni me is.

The Tibetan means what, Nick? Not to. Not to.

T-W-O. Not T-W-O. Okay, good part.

Now we're going to talk about... His first point is if you want to achieve nirvana, you must realize not to.

[Говорящий 2]
Right.

[Говорящий 1]
Okay? Not to. Then Nick, and we're going to explore what it means.

Tar del toppa yin me kyi tawa chen du tawa pangwa. Tarpa toppa. Freedom from the extreme positions.

What are the two? Sorry, separate from those two positions. No, this just means devoid of or...

Okay. Yeah. What's the two?

Tak and chen. Yeah. If things exist from their own side, then either they never change...

Can't exist. ...or they can't exist. Okay.

So Tar del... You make a tawa chen du tawa pangwa. We're...

We're pangwa the tawa, Nick. We're giving up the necessity that you would have the view either realizing... Sorry.

Giving up the necessity of having either of those views? Yeah. The point is, Tar del toppa, if a person sees that things are neither extreme of existing forever or never existing, that they must then be yin me kyi tawa chen.

The other guy is saying, I don't care what you believe, but you must believe either things are there or they're not there. And the Garjuna says, I disagree to that. Okay.

The guy says, I understand this whole emptiness spiel, but can I say that all people must either believe that things exist or don't exist? And the Garjuna says, I never said that. I never said it was either there or it wasn't there.

I never said you had to have one or the other. Cool. This yin me kyi tawa chen means or me kyi tawa chen.

Because this one or the other means exists from its own side or never existed at all. So he says, don't try to put me in those two boxes. You think those two boxes cover the whole universe.

They don't. And I'm not in either box. I don't say things are there, and I don't say things are not there the way you think they are.

Got it? Okay. Yes, sir.

Yeah, and is that pangwa, is that to put out like tempa, like if you throw out there? Yeah. Okay.

Okay. Well, no, I'm tempted to say pangwa. I don't know.

We'll see when we get there. Pangwa is a noun that means a state or something. Right.

Or to throw something. Status or position? It's unusual.

Let's see when we get there. Okay. I'm suspicious of it.

chu de kong du she pa. What's that mean, Nick? Understanding that things are free, or understanding that things are devoid of our images, of our imaging.

Big mess. Doesn't mean necessarily we have the problem of chepa. Doesn't mean that we have the problem of thinking that things don't exist at all.

Yeah, just because we deny your projections doesn't mean we're saying nothing exists. We deny what you're projecting, but we don't say nothing exists. Your mortgage is a projection, but it does exist.

Okay. Who's going to read next, Nick? Let's see.

I think somebody here. I'm going to split it up a little bit. Tin, you want to read, or are you translating?

Yeah, I can read. Thank you, Dr. Nick. Thanks.

Which one? From Le? Yeah, yeah.

Le tre la ku pa de pe me pa pa ni. Let's split it up like that, Nick. What's a me pa pa?

What's a me pa pa? I'm not a linguist. Yeah, the guys that say nothing exists.

They're called nothing exist-erers. Me pa pa. Me pa means doesn't exist.

Me pa pa means guy who believes that. So these me pa pas, the guy who's saying that nothing exists, why we call them people who deny that anything exists? Because they ku and de pa, the principle of len, den, and ni.

They underestimate the principle of cause and effect. Karma and its consequences. Yeah, if you were a true nihilist, then you would say even cause and effect don't exist, okay?

And if you say that kind of thing, ngen dro la dro. You become a person who goes to the lower realms. Yeah, and by the way, this verse, if you want to learn some Sanskrit or you want to learn some Tibetan, this is one of the most famous verses Nagarjuna ever wrote.

He wrote many, many verses. We identified 141 words. A million.

But this is one of the most famous. If you want to memorize something or something, me pa pa ni ngen dro dro, yu pa pa ni den dro dro, yang pang chik shing, yong shi ching, ni na mi ten tharpar gyur, na asti go, dukpa ting ya di, sukpa ting ya di cha, dukpa yata buddha paris, nyam nam, mong shak adaya, ni shuk ta ya. Okay, if you want to memorize something, memorize this one.

Very, very famous. So guys who say that nothing's there, they go ngen dro. They go to the other house.

They learn about those yu pa pas. Some people who think that stuff does exist. Yeah, it sounds like some kind of tortilla chip or something.

That's a good idea. Those people who yi che len ge, they really, I guess, in this case, believe in actions and their consequences. Yeah.

Nihilists don't even accept karma. Okay? But there's an opposite problem.

It's people who accept everything. And they do accept, they do believe in karma. Okay?

But they... chik tenpay yang dapay tawa chim. Thank you for the correction, Jim.

Thank you, Geshe Michael. So this is that yang dak again. They think that everything is always pure.

Say again? They think that everything is always true. There's a thing called, in the Abhidharma, it's called chik tenpay yang dapay tawa.

What's that mean? Beyond the structure. The worldly correct view.

The worldly correct view. Worldly correct view. It's not complete.

It doesn't cover emptiness. But it would cover something like karma. So they don't understand that the pen comes from them.

But they do believe that they shouldn't hurt people. Because something bad will happen to them. So we call it, like, grandma's pure view.

[Говорящий 2]
You know?

[Говорящий 1]
They're like, don't hurt anybody. Buddha said, don't hurt anybody. But she doesn't understand emptiness.

Okay? So suppose you're... That's another extreme.

That's the extreme of believing things do exist. And it's a wrong view. It's an incomplete view.

You should be nice to other people because of karma. But they don't understand emptiness. So we call it chik tenpay yang dapay tawa.

Yang dapay tawa means they have correct viewpoint. Chik tenpay means world view. In the world.

Still teach their children not to hurt people. But they don't know why. Chik tenpay yang dapay tawa.

And those guys are called yupapas. Aha, they're existers. They went too far the other way.

Existerers. Yeah, existerers. They went too far the other way.

Okay? They went too far the other way. Who was in between?

Middle way. The middle way. Okay, good.

Okay. So it's interesting. It's not that the middle way is saying nothing exists.

That's not why they say emptiness. But neither are they saying everything exists. Okay?

They're somewhere between. That's the idea. Who's up next, Nick?

I can ask... Oh, yeah, if you got somebody, go ahead. I'm going to ask Dennis to choose somebody, just so the hatred can all be directed at him.

He doesn't mind. Chloe. Chloe!

Chloe's coming, Nick. She's getting pretty good, by the way. Must be one of those worders.

Worders. You got that, Chloe. Okay, here we go.

[Говорящий 2]
Stay.

[Говорящий 1]
Let's translate. They won't kill you because of their beliefs, Nick. Those grandmas.

But they will go to the lower realms? They will go to the same realm. Oh, sorry, the higher realms?

Yeah. They don't have a complete viewpoint, but they have an incomplete viewpoint, which is not so bad. And they will, therefore, stay out of the lower realms.

They'll teach their kids, please don't kill things. Okay, dendrodora way. But this is...

If it's the case that tawa de tsam le min na... If they don't have much of that? The layist comparative, dan.

Right, if they don't... Oh, tawa de tsam. If they don't have any tawa, better than...

Better than? Yeah. Or if they don't have any viewpoint, if they don't go any deeper, if they don't have anything except that, viewpoint of just...

They just believe in karma, blindly believe in karma. If they don't have any better views than that, if they don't understand emptiness, for example, then ngen dro la ma tung. Okay, that's okay.

They're still not going to go into the lower realms, but they're going to spin around and around in their mortgages until it's over. Yeah. If you're an old grandma who doesn't understand emptiness, but you do believe in karma, then at least you stay out of the animal realm.

At least you won't be born as a roach. Okay. Chloe wants to read one more next.

She was begging me. Awesome. That's good.

We're about out of time. Wait. Keep the cursive real so people can see.

Go, go. Tata...

[Говорящий 2]
Tata mi la mi tenpe paka cho chen papa gyur te Little peninsula.

[Говорящий 1]
Amen.

[Говорящий 2]
Tata mi la mi tenpe papa gyur te ney la ki tong yang tak pa ji ta wa shin no sum du yong su she pey chir Nice.

[Говорящий 1]
Wow. Let's take those patas again. Those realized beings who do not have those two extreme views.

Yeah. They don't rely on either the view that things are there or the view that things aren't there. They stay in between.

They tapang gyur. They achieve freedom. Yeah.

Now me, if I didn't say that ungyur, how would I translate it? They achieved freedom. They already achieved freedom.

So that makes it future tense. That little ungyur makes it future. Okay.

Because they yong su she pey Because they thoroughly understand or saw directly in this case. yong su du Directly. Yeah.

ji ta wa shin no I'm sorry. ne lu kyi dun ne lu kyi dun The truth of the way things are. The reality of...

Yeah, the way things are. Just as it really is. Okay.

Just as it really is. Now, if you want a hundred bucks, Nick, and there's no pressure. God, his eyelids are coming out.

It'd be interesting to comment on this yong dakpa hearing. Because in this case, the yong dakpa is the way that we traditionally think of it meaning correct. And previously, we recently used the phrase yong dakpa to refer to people think like using like purely here meaning that things existed truly like with their own nature.

Exactly. So here it means here it means purely meaning you understood the true nature of things. And just two sentences ago, three sentences ago, we had it as meaning purely in the sense of self-existence.

So Nick has earned himself $50 with the second yong dakpa and $50 with the first yong dakpa. Cool? Right on.

Buy donuts after your next... Okay. What did you say again?

You can buy donuts after your next trip. That's the least. Is that we are out of time?

We are out of time. So Nicholas is going to lead us in a discussion of how we could use all of today's class in real life. Yeah.

I thought we had some really good stuff in there at the end. First of all, I just want to say thank you so much, Keshe Michael. I love this text.

I love that we have the chance to do this. Thank you for teaching us to translate. This is amazing.

Good luck trying to make it. I'm going for the popcorn. Well, I look forward to having the discussion about whether or not neemay really means non-duality, because I'll bring it up next class.

That all said, we covered some super interesting stuff. Bob Serino has his hand up. I'm guessing you have the power to unmute yourself, Bob.

Let's hear you. Let's hear what you got. I should undo this.

Can't that need be a dot com? Without a yes? Nick, I was just raising my hand to the ability to chat in during the future.

You were just stretching. You were just stretching out. He got some cold water in his brain and it's kind of stuck.

[Говорящий 2]
It happens.

[Говорящий 1]
Anybody else want to share your thoughts? I'm happy to start the conversation. I thought something very interesting that we talked about today was .

I got a guy, Nick. Good. Come on.

Hi, Nick. Hey. How's it going?

What's going on? What's up? What's up?

What you been up to lately? Surfing. Only one person who doesn't get time to surf.

You can do the classic surf retreat or something.

[Говорящий 2]
Learn ancient scriptures and surf for a week. That'll be fun. People are excited.

What I wanted to talk about the text, I really like this part about when you are seeing emptiness directly, you cannot recognize the distinction between, let's say, a basic distinction. I don't know basic. Male and female.

I connected that to the activity that YSI is having these days with the option of the guitar and what Geshe-la told us about Eka Rasa.

[Говорящий 1]
Did they pay you to mention that? No. I found this interesting connection between emptiness or the perception of emptiness and Eka Rasa being everything as one.

[Говорящий 2]
Because in a way, I think Eka Rasa also brings this idea of no distinctions in a way that there is like a single song or a single taste. Just interesting that they are also bringing it up in a different form. I guess Eka Rasa maybe, I don't know.

I will just raise a question.

[Говорящий 1]
What do you think? Is Eka Rasa talking about the positive side of existence, meaning dependent origination or seeds? Or is it talking about the absence, the negative side of existence?

To the audience, what's Eka Rasa? Well, as far as I understand, Eka Rasa is Rasa, by the way. Eka Rasa.

Rasa. Rasa.

[Говорящий 2]
Rasa. Okay.

[Говорящий 1]
Rasa.

[Говорящий 2]
As far as I understand, it refers to the fact that at the end of the day, if we are talking from the way that things really exist, everything is the same but only in the sense that everything comes from seeds.

[Говорящий 1]
Yeah, I was just going to say, everything comes from my seeds or everything comes from your seeds or everything comes from seeds. It's very safe to play. In that sense, everything is the same.

Everything is not the same in the sense that Geshe-la has said, okay, it's not the same to be punched in the face than to be kissed by the person you like because one feels good, the other doesn't feel good.

[Говорящий 2]
So in that sense, things are not the same. It's not like, ah, it's just all the same. Doesn't matter.

Just do whatever you want or something like that.

[Говорящий 1]
No, but things are the same in the sense that, yeah, the green juice comes from seeds and the chocolate milkshake comes from seeds.

[Говорящий 2]
So they are the same in the sense that they come from seeds or they could be the same in the sense that they not not come from seeds. So the question was, when we talk about Eka Rasa, do you guys think we are talking about how things exist or how things don't exist?

[Говорящий 1]
Probably exist. It's a positive. Do you think Eka Rasa is a positive?

[Говорящий 2]
Yeah.

[Говорящий 1]
Eka Rasa is not about the absence of a self. It is pretty much, by definition, talking about things that... Right.

Go ahead, Rob. That's exactly what I was... I mean, it's not an absence.

The fact that you used the word... You used a positive to describe it. It wasn't describing an absence.

It was describing how things are the same. So would it be wrong to say that Eka Rasa means that anything, that all things have an absence of self-existence? Would that be wrong, technically?

That's another way to say it, yeah. But then is it right or is it wrong? It's what, right?

What I'm saying is technically correct. If I say Eka Rasa means everything lacks self-existence.

[Говорящий 2]
Because now I'm talking about a negative, an absence.

[Говорящий 1]
But if you just were saying both, you were saying that Eka Rasa is talking about the way things exist. What's the definition again? A single thing.

A single thing? Yeah. What's the technical definition?

Oh, Eka Rasa. I don't know the technical definition. Do you know?

[Говорящий 2]
Everything takes a thing. A hundred bucks?

[Говорящий 1]
I like that. He's the money keeper. Don't look at me.

If all things come from seeds, they're not talking about an absence right there. Yeah, I agree. Yeah.

But we need the absence. It has to be empty of that thing or else it couldn't, it would be coming from its own side. So that will mean that saying that Eka Rasa means everything lacks self-existence?

It's wrong. Yeah, maybe, and it's okay. I don't know.

Anybody in the room? Dennis, come on, Dennis. Come, come.

That's the deal. Ross Cape. I just have one thing to say.

If this green drink tastes good to you, then it's a positive thing, right? So then it's negative. It does not taste bad.

So that's all. Eka Rasa. How would you describe Eka Rasa?

I would describe it as I want everything to taste good in this world, right? I want to see every meal be delicious. And so Eka Rasa, in a way, is kind of a goal on the path.

But would you say Eka Rasa, could we say that seeing emptiness directly is Eka Rasa? Is going into Eka Rasa? No, I mean, maybe not.

How did you get there? How do I get there? Does anybody want to help me here?

Well, another thing that I thought was interesting about this section of my book was just talking about the grandma view of cause and effect and how helpful that can be. And just getting into slightly more practical applications of what we're talking about, because right now we're really focused on semantics, so I'm just moving away from that for a second, if that's okay. Thank you.

I just thought it was interesting because I realized that so much of my life I rely on that grandma view. I forget that things are empty. You know, I mean, on some level I remember, but I don't really remember.

Like, I don't really know it that deeply, I think, because of my own feelings. But I'm like, you're supposed to be good. Just be good, you know.

I just somehow remember how important that is. And I want to be good, just naturally. I don't want to hurt people.

So I think that maybe by some sheer luck, maybe good practice in my past, I've been able to summon some special ability to want to be good, where I think actually a lot of people do. I don't know. Anybody have thoughts about this or have any interactions with this grandma view of...

[Говорящий 2]
I like it, Nick. We have a tendency to err on one side or another, and until we have a perfect view, we're always going to be imperfect. And if I could be imperfect leaning towards thinking of myself, or imperfect leaning towards thinking of others, then I'll err to that side for now.

And I'm trying to reach a higher view, but in the meantime, when in doubt, take care of people. And then maybe we're going to a nice place. It's not sustainable until we understand that the world around us is connected to our hearts, the people around us are connected to our hearts directly, but until we understand that, just take care of people.

[Говорящий 1]
Hey, Ben. But didn't we study sometime that being moral by how to say, by the wrong reason is actually being immoral? Uh-oh.

[Говорящий 2]
When you say actually, what exactly are you adding to this conversation?

[Говорящий 1]
I mean, the result is going to bring to you.

[Говорящий 2]
No, it's not actually immoral. It could be a higher morality to see that people are expressions of your own heart when you serve them. But in the meantime, the morality that's available to you is certainly the one that we should use.

[Говорящий 1]
I agree. Do you actually agree? So the mirage here is that is the green drink that doesn't come from how ethical you're being towards other people.

It's not going to taste good. It's about time for Peachtree World News, but Anatole, do you want to share something?

[Говорящий 2]
I just want to tell a little story. One time I got taken to the mountains in North Carolina, and it was a place called Devil's Courthouse. And the wind there was completely, I went there at the sunrise, and the wind was completely steady.

It never fluctuated for like, I don't know, 30 minutes or something. I stood there, and the wind was totally steady. That's all.

[Говорящий 1]
All right, you guys. It's time. As it is every other day, for the Peachtree World News to take over and tell us what's going on, tell us how it is.

[Говорящий 2]
In the interim, Nick, if it's okay, I just want to remind everybody that they can still sign up for the Good Night Club, and you can follow depending on the region, you get all sorts of benefits in your respective areas for signing up to be a member. And most of you have, believe it or not, watching the attendance to subscription ratio. It's wonderful to see so many people becoming Good Night Club members.

So everybody, there are links in the chats for China. There's a region, U.S., Canada, Europe. There's one for other places in Asia and Latin America.

And your participation is wonderful. Remember, this is always free, and you'll always attend for free, and we just want to hang out and learn with you. And if you want to subscribe and get other gifts and products and participate in a broader way, that's also available to you.

So thank you again for being here tonight.

[Говорящий 1]
Thank you, Ben. Thank you also for filling us in on the latest. Yeah.

Thank you very much, guys, for everything you do.

[Говорящий 2]
And in general, I always like to thank people as well for your patience, because sometimes I know that I have to play a little bit like Joe was telling me, like pushing buttons and stuff, but it's not with a bad intention, and it's just with this purpose of learning and developing these interesting discussions. So thank you very much for all that you do, and your patience as well. I want to share with you some of the things that are coming up soon, just in the general World View network.

[Говорящий 1]
So Gina's going to help me show you some pictures, and here we go. So I just want you to mention that some friends from Germany, Sylvia Engelhardt, are doing this very cool project called Meditation Studies Initiative. I want to encourage you to check it out.

It's a project who's saying to train people, especially in business projects, to incorporate meditation in their daily part of the ongoings. So check it out. They have trainings in English, German, and Spanish so far, as far as I understand.

You can go to their website. Soon we're going to have more details about this project, but for now, it's important that we know that it's there. They are ready to provide services.

Check it out if you're interested. Next, for the month of February, we are having very cool... Next picture, please.

Yes, we are having very cool filmings for DCI Level 10 and DCI Level 12. They are happening here in Sedona. Don't say you're here and here, but if you're interested to attend, if you're here, talk to Seji.

Maybe he'll let you in sometime. It's happening in February. Then, after that, Geshe Michael and some friends are going to Japan.

Next picture, please. That's happening in March. Yes, that's Kyoto, beautiful city.

I have here... I've never been there. I hope I've been there sometime.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, just getting you to know that that's happening. I think it's mid-March.

We'll know more about it soon. Next picture, please. I have here the place is so beautiful and it's in the springtime so everything is very blossom and amazing.

So, yeah. Okay, that's March. Then, after that, they're coming back to the U.S. and they are going to Diamond Mountain. Next picture, please. So, then, you have a chance to hear about the wonderful stories that may have happened in Kyoto. Just check.

If you're interested to attend there, you can talk with the Diamond Mountain people or go to the website, diamondmountain.org and you'll check it out. And, finally, we want to invite people to our next event happening on February 9th. Yes, we are celebrating the Chinese New Year.

There is a QR code. It's going to be very fun. We're going to have special interviews.

Ward said he's going to talk with us about some Chinese medicine, Asian medicine. He's going to share with us some things. Some other special friends are going to be talking about what's the meaning of the dragon gear and many cool interviews and also Geshe Michael talking about how we can take control over our own destiny for this upcoming year.

Thank you very much and now we have a very special interview with YSI. First, I wanted to thank you for a great week and a great program by YSI. Second, I wonder if you could grab that.

We were just talking about Ekarasa. One second. We have eight minutes left in the auction.

The highest bid last I checked was $5,500. It comes with one also. We will announce the winner in eight minutes.

Get your bid in. We wanted to take a moment to talk about an event coming up this summer. June 29 and 30, July 27-28.

Two weekends, two days. Geshe Michael went into three-year retreat in 2000 to 2003. Three years, three months, three days.

During that time he came up twice a year and taught what was called the quiet retreat teachings. He has never retaught that. That was for me kind of my favorite teachings.

We wanted to revive these teachings. We had a great program last summer, Magic of Empty Teachings. This summer we want to do the Inner Kingdom.

This is the original book actually from those teachings. I wanted to ask a few questions and we will put up a banner. One of the things I loved was that you taught from your own poetry.

It was the first time I had ever heard you not teach scriptures. I'm wondering why and what that was like for you. I think the main thing was that I had six months to think.

A few days of teaching. To be honest, normally I only have a few hours to prepare for class. I had six months to think about teaching.

I wanted to tailor exactly what I wanted to say because I had time to prepare and I had time to write poetry. I also didn't have much time to teach. I wanted to hit the topic exactly.

The only way to do that was to write the root text myself. It was amazing. Really beautiful poetry.

Very heartfelt poetry. What was it like for you to be in retreat and then to come out and teach twice a year? We came out twice a year.

We were still blindfolded. We didn't know, for example, who was guiding us to the seat to sit down to teach. We also didn't know, I told Earl yesterday, I had this fantasy on the way that someone was going to throw me off because I couldn't see anything, just some guy driving me across the desert.

It was really interesting because I couldn't see if anybody was there. As far as I knew, it was one person or maybe it was a thousand people. I didn't know.

I think it's interesting to teach without knowing who's there. Also, it's interesting to teach without being able to see people's reactions because when I teach, I adjust constantly to the people's reactions. It's a different experience to teach to the air.

It was beautiful. It was also very scary because we didn't meet anybody for two or three years. Even just someone holding my hand to take me, it was a little traumatic, actually.

Thank you. I wanted to read the first verse and ask if you could briefly talk about it. Okay.

There'll be some standing here who shall not taste of death till they see the kingdom. Jivamukti luma pangpura but how? That's actually a famous quotation from Jesus.

They were always talking about going to heaven or can I go to heaven or what will happen to me after I die? I think in my... I grew up in a Christian country and we heard this quotation a lot.

We thought that maybe... We even have a children's prayer. Now I lay me down to sleep, pray the Lord my soul to keep.

If I die before I wake, pray the Lord my soul to take. Something like that. We thought that you have to die to go to heaven.

There's a tradition in the yoga tradition that we were just studying this week called Jivamukti which means to be... basically to reach heaven next week or before you die. There's an interesting part in the...

Jesus is standing in front of his disciples and he says some of you will not have to die to get to that place. Some of you will make it there before you die. It's interesting.

We don't have any recognized thing of who was it or how did they get there or what was it like. I thought to write a whole long poem about how to do that would be beautiful. It's amazing.

The teaching talks about reaching the outer heaven and then the inner heaven, the inner kingdom. It was my first time seeing you and being at the teaching. Bringing the teachings live and it changed my life.

The teachings were unbelievably beautiful. We'll go through them with a bunch of guests. I'll invite people that were there.

Hopefully Rob Haggerty and Venerable Jigme and Gyaltses will be able to come and share their experiences. June 29 and June 30, July 27 and 28. I'm trying to twist this guy's arm to make a special appearance.

Then we'll go in depth September 7 and 8 and go through the whole poem. Do we have an auction winner? If anybody wants to make a final bid.

Going once. How much did word say? I heard you word.

Going twice. All right. The worst yet.

The winner would like to stay anonymous. For $5,500 we have an anonymous winner who is very excited for the guitar. There's somebody else who is also supporting in a big way, in a secret way.

Thank you to everybody who supported YSI. It takes a lot to put on these programs. Without your support, it wouldn't be possible.

Thank you. Thank you for singing the single song. You and me singing.

Cousin Vinnie is playing with me. If you didn't get a chance to win the guitar, you can still purchase for any price that you want a song that my cousin Vince, me and Geshe Michael played on Geshe Michael's deck. We'll drop the link in the chat.

For any amount of money at all, you can come and hang out with us on Geshe Michael's deck. Thank you so much. Thank you as well.

[Говорящий 2]
Thank you to all of you. Thank you so much. Next we have a class with Ward.

[Говорящий 1]
Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you for YSI.

Great event. Thank you so much. Thank you.