Бетси Грир — Книга 2: Интерлюдия о пустоте, занятие 78

[Speaker 3]
Oh, yeah, I'm Tommy.

[Speaker 1]
Hey, hi. Go for it. Okay, so this is a quiz on our last class of last year, and we're still in in the realm of sort of an introductory section on the middle way.

Talking about our unit Gardener. And then we had a long discussion about Master Chandra Kirti, and, you know, was really a direct disciple and what's his relationship to our unit Gardener. So, we're wrapping that up now we just had these last little bits.

So, he has just like basically dismissed people's assertions that Master Chandra Kirti was not a direct disciple of our unit Gardener, and he's giving his examples, his proofs. So, what did Maitreya proclaim about grasping suchness? Anatole says you cannot do it through any other method except to Master Chandra Kirti.

Almost. Does anyone have it perfectly correct? Oh, he said, or to Nagarjuna, actually.

Yeah, suchness cannot be grasped in any system, other than that of our unit Gardener and Master Chandra Kirti. Cool. We're on the right track.

What does K.J. say about those followers of Master Chandra Kirti, who claim that Chandra Kirti was refuted? Anatole's meditating. We got into some colorful language here.

How could they really be, something along the lines of how could they really be followers? They're loonables, maybe? They are loonables, yeah.

And then they also have abandoned their future lives. Now, how does K.J. respond to the fool who says there's no reason to be so freaked out about refuting Master Chandra Kirti? Earlier Tibetans did it in the past.

More colorful language. Yeah, he gets K.J. on them.

[Speaker 2]
Something like killing father and mother happened a lot, too. And still do. Does that mean nothing?

Precisely.

[Speaker 1]
Since killing one's mother or father happened a lot in the past, then we should undertake every possible kind of filthy act. So what would be the English equivalent of go away, folk? A brave opponent?

It's a bad word. Not quite. B-A-L-L-S.

I thought it meant brave, courageous. Yeah, the confidence to dispute. Yeah.

What would be... Blah blah. The equivalent to blah blah.

In the ancient Chinese language. Ask about it. And then what does...

Your ear must be blocked or something? Cover your ears. Sorry, she cried earlier.

Looks like poverty. Nice, nice homework. You got text for us?

Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to now get rid of my confusers now, allowing me to stop my slideshow. There we go. Now I can make it huge, so I don't make you dizzy while I do that.

And what I'm starting with in my translation homework is the last paragraph we had, because a quotation was just started. Where it starts with dao dakpa, you mean? So this was from last time, this first one.

So just to get us in the mood. Those who say Master Chandrakirti didn't understand what was really meant before he entered the higher teachings, but did understand what was really meant when he entered the secret teachings, are blathering pure nonsense. And if a wise person heard them talk like this, they would be ashamed.

So here comes the quote. If you ask, is there any entity which exists separate from the mind itself? It's taught that there is no such thing.

Entities lack an essential nature. Okay, let's read... Wait.

So now we start... Oh, unless there are corrections to be made. Oh, I say no, no, no, that's fine.

Okay. Okay. So you're going to start with this week's Chinese.

Okay. You got to read the West Chinese language first. chu ni wa shik yu dam shina ga shik Are we doing ga or wa?

It's probably ba shik, yeah. Okay. chu ni ba shik yu dam shina Oh, I'm sorry, probably ga shik.

But anyway, let's go. chu ni me pa'o shedra wa sung so If you ask, is there any such thing as ultimate reality? chu ni me pa'o Yeah, okay.

What's the force of the ba shik or the ga shik, whatever it might be? Um, any such thing?

[Speaker 3]
Or...

[Speaker 1]
om nam shing bu yi Yeah, I would say something like that, yeah. chu ni ba shik yu dam shina Pure ultimate reality, something, maybe. Okay, can you...

Venerable Upala, can you please read the next paragraph? ndir sungpa bunpo kang dang kye che wang sok dang shey pa ne chun nam de kun mi lam thabu te dzun dang denpa dak yang yu ma yin shey ba'o Should be ba'o, shey ba'o here. I wondered about that.

Yeah, yeah, okay. je chu chen dang chu ni tha shey mi lam dang dra war denpa rang shin me par gyepar sung shing Yeah, cool. Good, let's see.

These words teach that the body and the mind, the elements, the sense consciousnesses, okay, the sense powers and the rest, all phenomena, are like a dream. shey pa ne chun nam de kun mi lam thabu te dzun dang denpa dak yang yu ma yin Yeah, it's a very long quotation that he doesn't give the whole thing here. You see what I mean?

That shey pa ne means he gives you the first tiny bit and then he gives you the last tiny bit and he doesn't give you what's in between. Oh, where does it... That shey pa ne...

Yeah, it's a quotation from another book. Yeah, and the quotation starts with pungpo kam dang kye che nam wang sung nam and then dot dot dot chun nam de kun mi lam thabu te Yeah, okay. And then, I forget if I found that quotation.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, you did.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, we did find it. It was... It was actually a tantric text by Chandrakirti, which is kind of cool.

So, we'll go to that maybe... Do you have it here down below? I don't know.

[Speaker 2]
Oh no, I can copy it.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, okay. So, let's just keep going. These words teach comprehension of everything, subjects and suchness.

che chen dang chen yi Yeah, it's like a dream devoid of any self-nature. Good. Okay.

I think that kind of verbal pun is maybe untranslatable. The che chen and the chen yi. So, chen yi means dharma ta, which is a synonym for shunyata.

Chen yi is a synonym for tongpa nyi. And then, che chen is the ancient word for the subject, the subject which has equality. You see what I mean?

So, in the West Chinese language, it sounds more sexy than you can make it in English. He said the che chen and the chen yi are both empty. But we can't really catch it.

Okay, sounds good. Are you... Do you want to read this second part here?

detar? Yes. detarangshin me pa la cheche jache tamche jache jache njokpa ngewe tsula sokpa gepar ume kapsu shepa jitawar yangyang shepa jitawar Oh, sorry.

jitawar Okay. yangyang shepa tamche kyi yi ge tsam la yang ma takpar rang ni chiyang ni shepe nangsu rang ni kyi marik shindu shing ta chenpo dak gi shepa jitar yin bawa la dzem me du shupe chiro Good. Yeah, it's pretty...

This is pretty... rough language actually, okay? Which, this is like gyaltsab je and kirub je at their worst.

Okay? In the same way, detar. Mother Middle Way explains in detail over and over again, rang shin me pa la che che tam je that the lack of self-change and morality does not contradict their way of acting.

Good, okay. Yeah, good. The fact that things are empty does not contradict the fact that they do something, basically.

Without examining even the words... yangyang shepa tamche kyi yi ge tsam la ma takpar Yeah, okay. rang ni chiyang ni shepe nangsu Go with ignorance.

Good, okay. By the way, the ang in chiyang should be translated as something like total ignorance or something like that. They don't know anything at all.

Chiyang, okay. Chiyang ni shepe nangsu Yeah. Nangsu means that's the way they behave.

That's the way these guys behave. Without knowing anything, they blah blah. Okay, without knowing anything at all, they blah blah.

rang ni marik shindu Filled with complete ignorance themselves, they unabashedly shimdak chenpo dagyi shepa dukpa yin spout their pains about what it is that the great masters asserted. Yeah. Yeah, I want to ask you two questions.

shimdak chenpo Those are the great masters.

[Speaker 3]
Great innovators.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. shimdak soje Yeah, the great innovators. shimdak soje It says big wagons.

Big wooden horses. shimdak chenpo But it means those innovators. What they believe...

What's that zemme? Yeah, zemme you wrote, you translated as unabashedly, right?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, good. Zemme means literally to avoid. So, zemme means they just blunder on without avoiding.

They spout their stuff without avoiding any stupid idea. Okay? Zemme means without...

Without hesitation, in a way. Without hesitation. Okay, cool.

I don't... It's kind of suspicious that you would translate this section so well. Because it's one of those...

[Speaker 3]
It's one of those...

[Speaker 1]
No, it's one of those... It's one of those...

[Speaker 3]
It's one of those...

[Speaker 1]
It's one of those occasional K.W.J. or Gyaltsabje rants. They do it... That's almost you can...

Without knowing who the author is, you can tell if there's a rant like that in the middle. Tsongkhapa does not do that. So, okay.

But how curious that both Gyaltsabje and K.W.J. are known. I think they used to argue with each other like me and Art, but... Okay.

Interlude, right? Yeah. Interlude, yes.

Alright, here we go. Yeah, there's the quotation. Well, it's just interesting that in this text, which is very, very famous emptiness text, he quotes one of the rare books by Chandrakirti in the secret teachings.

You see what I mean? And I was... When I hit it, I thought I was in the wrong place, but he...

He went to the secret teachings to quote Chandrakirti. So, Chandrakirti and Nagarjuna both have major contributions in the secret teachings. And they're very interesting.

They're very... really interesting. Nagarjuna's...

A lot of Nagarjuna's material on bodhichitta and bodhisattva activities is in the secret teachings. Which is interesting. Okay.

And there's the whole quotation. Okay. Because he had a dot, dot, dot between them.

Technically, we should read this, Utpala. Great. I'm going to split it up a bit to make it more palatable for you.

Should we put this in a footnote? For chance? For sure, you have to.

Because... And I'm going to add the... Now it breaks into verse.

Okay. This I do all day long.

[Speaker 3]
Okay, good.

[Speaker 1]
It's in verse. Okay. What I like to do actually is...

I like to do this personally. Then you can see it easier. Okay, Utpala.

Lung la den pe ngepa mi lam pong mi lam nilok stela yinwa yinwa yin I got to go over here. I saw a great movie last night with my wife. Neil Diamond movie by Hugh Jackman.

Highly recommended for you musician types who never thought Neil Diamond was any good. Which includes me. It's amazing.

It's an amazing movie. Okay. All right, let's go Venerable.

Do you want to do two lines just for good luck? Yes, please. chu ni pa chi yu dam she na chu ni me pa'o she ja war sung su Yeah, what's that say?

chu ni pa chi yu dam she na That dam is a... Question mark. Question mark.

Yeah. Is there any... Is there any such thing as...

Pure nature, what did I say? I'm sorry. Yeah, pure reality or something.

basik means in and of itself or something like that. Okay. Is there any such thing as a pure reality?

Ultimate reality, yeah. Yeah, is the question. The answer you get is chu ni me pa There is no ultimate reality.

Yeah, there is no ultimate reality. By the way, why we're going through this quotation from a book by Chandrakirti is that it was referenced by our author who cut it... He cut out the middle of it and we had to go supply it for our reader.

Just our mixed nuts rule. We don't quote... What do you call them?

Abridged quotations. We don't quote them. Okay.

He abridged it because he assumed you had memorized it in your earlier years. Okay. That old quotation from Tantra which...

Okay. Okay, please... Do you want someone else to read Venerable Upala?

Yeah, sure. Shunzum, could you please read? Yeah.

Okay, okay. Okay. Okay, let's read that much.

Thank you. You did a good job. Venerable Upala, the subject of Stanley's new book, Everything in the Universe.

Everything in the Universe. The body and mind and the elements and the sense consciousnesses and the sense powers and all the rest. Good.

Then he said, shepa nye du. The two awarenesses. Okay.

And I... Any... Anybody can guess what he's talking about?

He says, the five parts of the person, the eighteen categories, the twelve doors of sense, the five powers, or... if you go to the second chapter of the Abhidharmakosha 21, I think. Okay.

All of those are... they are... all of the things that are listed in the first chapter of the Abhidharma and the second chapter are included into shepa nye du.

[Speaker 2]
Physical or mental consciousnesses?

[Speaker 1]
I don't know. What do you guys think? He says they are included into two states of mind.

I don't know. I honestly don't know.

[Speaker 3]
Could be...

[Speaker 1]
Well, he says two states of consciousness. It could be... sense powers and...

and thought, which is a classic Abhidharma thing.

[Speaker 2]
But sense powers can't be shepa.

[Speaker 1]
See... No, I mean the... consciousness of the senses and the consciousness of the thought is a common division in Abhidharma.

You see what I mean? But... we don't know.

Lek du ne... so all of the... all the types of awareness can be divided into two.

The awareness of your senses and the awareness of your thoughts. Okay? I believe that's what it is.

I would... I didn't put it here to remind myself. I'd say...

wang she... wang she... dang...

yi she... something like that. You see what I mean?

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Then what? DONG CHEN GYUR PA'I You can... you can...

you can group everything into the... five heaps. The...

eighteen categories. The twelve... doors of sense.

And by the way, it's interesting, but it's almost... all the time, they don't say five, twelve, eighteen. They say five, eighteen, twelve.

There must be some reason. I don't know. But they never go five, twelve, eighteen.

They go five, eighteen, twelve. I think Chen... I think Stanley said in the Chinese also.

I'm not sure. All those things... everything in the universe is included into these categories.

Okay? And they are DONG CHEN. Great world systems?

No. Oh, that's a good guess. I would say into the great emptiness.

All the normal list of objects... and the best place to find such lists is... Abhidharma.

All those lists of objects in Abhidharma, they are all included into DONG PO CHEN PO. Into the big emptiness. The mother emptiness of all the universe.

Okay? But, GANG ZHIG means people who GNYIS LOGS PA GNYIS means sleep. GNYIS means sleep and LOGS PA means to be asleep.

Okay? It literally means to flip into sleep. Okay?

LOGS PA is common with pancakes. Okay? GNYIS LOGS PA.

But it's the verb for falling into sleep. Those guys who are asleep, LUNG NA BSTAN NAS They get stuck on LUNG as opposed to RIG PA. They get...

Yeah, they get stuck on the wording and then they start to see MILAMS. Then they start to see dreams. They start to dream. Okay.

That LUNG can't be wording because it has an R, right? That's true. Could be.

You're correct. Then it would mean based on their inner winds, they see dreams. It is a tantric text, Ken.

That's true. But tantra also has quotations. Anyway, it's very possible.

Then we'd have to ask our Sanskrit expert to go see what it is. Okay.

[Speaker 3]
LUNG NA BSTAN NAS It's above.

[Speaker 1]
I gave it to you above. Okay, you can look it up. If it's LUNG, if it's RL, it will say VAYU or something like that, or prana.

And if it's no R, it'll say AGAMA, something like that in the Sanskrit. Okay? All right.

Who's going to read this one, Utpala? Now we see, by the way, why he didn't put the whole quotation in his book. Because it doesn't support what he was saying?

No one can understand it anyway. Okay. Venerable Jigme, please?

Venerable Jigme, you want to come up? Don't forget you have to step over this wire, okay? It's an exercise thing.

[Speaker 3]
The other one got fixed. More or less. MILAM MILAM DREBUN DREBUN KUNTA PA NILO SEPA SE LA JE YE WA YOD MA YIN CHOS NAM DE KUN MILAM THA BU STE CHOS DAM BSTAN PA DAG KYANG YOD MA YIN ZHES PA'O Okay, good.

[Speaker 1]
Let's read it. Thank you. Venerable Milam?

To believe in the results of dreams? I would, yes. Something like in the dream they seek some gold or something.

But it's KUNTAG PA. But it's all mental concepts. Yeah, it's all just in their head.

Like they see a pizza in the dream and they try to go after it. And then it's all just imaginary. KUNTAG PA, okay?

It's interesting because that's KUNTAG. Okay, KUNTAG PA. NILO SE LA NILO, yeah, when they wake up.

SE means when you wake up from sleep. YOD MA YIN There are no such divisions of objects. There's no pizza.

There's no you. Or again, or they can't tell the difference. That's an interesting thought.

It could mean they can't distinguish between having woken from sleep and being asleep. Yeah, something like that? Yeah.

That's interesting. Because that's kind of the theme, right? These are people who can't distinguish between reality and not reality.

SE LA YOD MA YIN CHOS NAMS BDE KUN MI LAM All of those. Yeah, all things are like a dream. Yeah.

Now a very radical statement. Because all things are like a dream, there's no RDZUN and there's no DEN. There's nothing false and nothing true.

Good, okay. And then he uses the DAG, which is dualizer. It makes it strong that there's a dichotomy into two.

There's no truth and there's no lie. There's no lie and there's no truth. YOD MA YIN When you're asleep.

The whole thing is a criticism of people who criticize Master Ching. Who can't tell the difference between Master Ching's purity and... Yeah, guys who didn't agree with our author, basically.

All right, way back here, he was saying there's people who don't study well and they can't tell the difference between a dream and waking. Okay? All right, we finished the quotation.

Thank you, Jing Mei. Do you want to... Rebecca, are you here with us?

I'm sorry, there's 365 people. Really? I thought we cleared them out.

No, we didn't. They're still here. Unless it's all like a dream and there's really only 10 of us.

I can't tell the difference. Yeah. Who's reading?

Venerable Cutting, are you here? Oh, thank you, yes. Thank you.

I'm sorry?

[Speaker 2]
We did the first two paragraphs already.

[Speaker 1]
Did we? Okay, you're right. Okay.

Let's go to Diagora. Who's reading? Cutting.

Cutting. Okay, go.

[Speaker 2]
RANG TANG GZHAN GYIS LOI TSUD ZIN PAS RANG TANG MI THUN PAR TZAM RGYUD TZIN DU BYAS Yes.

[Speaker 1]
ME CAN PO TANG RNGYUD SU DGOS PA LA RING PAR MI CHE LA Nice. Thanks for catching the Yewa. That was very cool.

RGYUD PA LA, Gyagar? India. Which is a synonym for Pakpayu.

The land of Aryas. The land of the Aryas. Those Kepas in that place.

Those masters in that place. Or scholars. They were very...

Those Kepas were very K in distinguishing Yewa between Gagyu and Gagyu Mayimba. They were very skilled. Very skilled in distinguishing between objects that...

I just understood it myself. Gagyu means people who are worth refuting. And Gagyu Mayimba.

Okay. Those who are worth refuting and those who are not. Yeah, so they didn't undertake to refute people who couldn't get it.

They just said, well, that's nice. And they just go on. That happens a lot.

Rather than trying to explain yourself for half an hour. BLO DUS BYAS CHOS SU BA Not only that, their BLO DUS, their intelligence... Yeah, this SU BA is SU OR NAS.

SU OR NAS Put in the corner. Yeah, put in the corner, which meant what? Do you guys remember?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
They were objective. Nice. They were not biased.

Unbiased. SU OR NAS So their wisdom was extremely unbiased. And this is interesting.

CHOS ZIN means to take the... Measure. Take the measure.

It's the ZAS in ZMR, Pramana. It's the MA in Pramana, which came into English as measure. Take the metric.

Take the measure. They were very good at judging the mental state of RANG and ZHIN. Themselves and others.

Yeah. They understood their own limitations and they understood other people's limitations. Okay?

So their arguments fit people. They didn't go over people's heads. Okay?

ZIN PAS And just because somebody was MI THUN PA with their view... Contradictory to their view. Yeah, just because a person approached them with a view that contradicted their view, they didn't take just that as a RGYUD ZIN.

They didn't take just that as a... As a reason. As a quality?

A reason. To spend the time RING BAG to GOG them. To spend the time refuting them.

They didn't bother to refute everyone who disagreed with them because they were good at judging the capacity of the other person. If they saw that the person was too stubborn or not intelligent enough to get what they're saying, they said, Oh, that's interesting. Thank you very much.

You know? They were very good at judging when to fight. And RING BAG...

A word, I looked it up and I wouldn't have understood it. Saracandra Das says, they were not quick to respond. They were not quick to fight.

They'd say, Oh, that's... That's... We'll think about that.

You know? Okay. Cool.

It's an interesting paragraph, I think. Sounds like a good quality. It's about choosing your fights well.

Okay. Who's next? And I'm going to cut this one.

[Speaker 2]
Venerable Sunam, please. I know your microphone works. Yay!

Yeah, we're good. We're good. We're good.

Okay, cool. I'm free. Yay.

We're getting into Mind-Only school again. What's going on?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I don't... I thought we were done with those Mind-Only guys. The great Indian Pandita Shantipa, his tawa was semsang.

His view was Mind-Only. Yeah, his school of thought was Mind-Only. But...

But... However... When Ludrup got Uma-ish on him...

When Arya Nagarjuna got all Middle-Way-ish on him... Yeah. When Arya Nagarjuna went Middle-Way, mi go.

He didn't refute him. Why does that relate to our argument? Because we just talked about masters who...

Choosing your fights well. Yeah, choosing their fights well. Choosing your fights well.

So Shantipa... And I guess the implication is that if you just refute everybody who comes along and doesn't agree with you... You would never eat dinner.

Right. That's what happens to me. Okay.

Yeah. So, yeah. And again, this wa is legal.

It's a third syllable wa. Okay, it's legal. Like wa-sa-wa.

Means a person from wa-sa. Okay. It's a legal bi.

Chen ne mi go. By the way, he did not refute Arya Nagarjuna... in Arya Nagarjuna's role as a representative of Madhyamika.

Wow. And... in the Semsam Gyen, which is a book name.

Okay. The Jewel of... Written by Arya Sangha.

Yeah, The Jewel of the Mind Only. It refers to Lodrup and Togme, both, as Semsam. It refers to Arya Nagarjuna and Arya Sangha.

Both. As both being mind only. And some...

Who wrote Semsam Gyen? Oh, here it is. By the way, it's by Bhutan Rinpoche.

As far as I could find. Oh, Bhutan. Yeah.

I'm sorry, no. Shantipa. Shantipa.

Bhutan says it was written by Shantipa. Yeah, okay. Bhutan was a famous Tibetan scholar who put together the Kangyur and Tengyur just before Tsongkapa.

Semsam du tumba, Semsam gyen she la. And Bhutan is usually right as far as who wrote books. Because that's his business.

He created a collection of 4,000 books. So, when you want to know who wrote a book, you ask him. Okay.

And he wrote a great history book also. Who's next? Venerable Upana.

Who's next is Ale. Ale.

[Speaker 2]
Ale, Ale. Me. Yay.

Oh, okay.

[Speaker 1]
She wasn't that yay.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you for the opportunity. Zong.

[Speaker 1]
Zong. Zong. Ji.

Nathan. Nathan Cho. Kyeong.

Great.

[Speaker 2]
La.

[Speaker 1]
Tabu.

[Speaker 2]
Tabu, Chen, Po. Dang. Ji.

Kyong.

[Speaker 1]
YouTube. YouTube. YouTube.

YouTube. YouTube. YouTube.

YouTube. YouTube. YouTube.

YouTube. YouTube. YouTube.

YouTube. YouTube.

[Speaker 3]
YouTube.

[Speaker 2]
YouTube. YouTube.

[Speaker 1]
la, bay, down, down, ya, she, shop, shop, shop, she, ya, pay, good, well, pa, la, sung, sok. Nice. Yay.

Okay. ngun gyi ne teng udpa la. ne teng kind of means elder.

The elders of yesteryear? Yeah, the elders of the past, and it's famous 16 elders for long life prayers and stuff like that. Okay, if you're ever interested.

Chukyong, his name is Dharmapala, I think. Okay, those chenpos, Those great ones. They, che is the verb here in the third line, they took the gongpa, the true thought, yeah, the true thought, of both Arya, Nagarjuna, Nagarjuna, and Aryadeva.

In Nagarjuna's name, Arya means Arya. In Aryadeva's name, it doesn't mean Arya. You got to be careful.

It's just his personal name. Okay, whether he was or not, I don't think he's normally listed as Arya, okay? But he is normally considered the direct disciple of Arya Nagarjuna, although he lived centuries later, but that's a question of how long did Nagarjuna live.

Anyway, this author says that the true thinking of both Nagarjuna and his heart disciple Aryadeva was simsang. It was mind only. Mind only, okay?

And, we can see that in the commentary to the 400 verses of Aryadeva, which is his famous book, in the commentary to the 400 verses of Aryadeva, by the way, which is not normally commented on much in the, in the glupak, except Gyatsobje, because he was a close disciple of Randhawa, who, who, who was, who wrote a good commentary, okay? But we don't use it much. We don't use it that much in the later Madhyamika because, it was prior to the division into higher and lower Middle Way, so it's not clearly, it's considered higher Middle Way, but it's not totally clear, okay?

Because it's about, I don't know, four or five hundred years before that division was clarified. Okay, so anyway, he, somebody took the 400 verses of Aryadeva, which we would take to be higher Middle Way, but not known yet. They commented on it as mind only.

Who's that? Yeah, Master Chandrakirti. Honorable, honorable foot.

Sorry, honorable moon. Honorable moon, which means Dharma, sorry, Chandrakirti, okay? In his famous commentary to the 400 verses, okay?

And we were studying something, I think it's in, which I haven't given you yet, but the Sea of Wisdom. It's quoted a lot. I think, yeah, anyway, he doesn't, he, that's a claim that Chandrakirti himself, in his commentary to Aryadeva, considered Aryadeva a mind only.

Okay. Which I don't think is, huh? Yeah, I didn't even want to go that far.

Okay, and there's the book if you're interested. Shantarakshita is the author of Um Again, but then Shantarakshita was seeing mind only people everywhere. Okay?

Anyway, who's next? Who's, I'm going to push this down a little bit. Who's going to read this?

Chloe, would you like to read? Come on. Um Gyang.

Um Gyang shantipay paksen sok ni ngek su min ne ma te ngok la.

[Speaker 2]
A something ka.

[Speaker 1]
Abhyakara.

[Speaker 2]
Abhyakara. La sokpay ni sen song song.

[Speaker 3]
Ngek su min ne ma te ngok gyang pak tro.

[Speaker 1]
La song se kyang gor war mi nu sing.

[Speaker 2]
Ngak ngor ngak ngor. Da wa ten la epey gyak su yang. Ngak ngor ngak ngor.

Da wa lu kun su drapar nga ngor.

[Speaker 1]
Ngak ngor.

[Speaker 3]
Nice.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, Master Shantipa. okay? An Indian master, my teacher would say, an Indian master between the Buddha and Atisha.

It's a thousand year gap. It's a 1500 year gap, something like that. He mentions, me, minle, by name.

He mentions specifically by name who directly, by name, he mentions Bhagavad-Gita and Senggye Tsangmo, Aryadeva and Hariputra. Yeah, although it could have been, it could have been Bhagavad-Gita, but I don't think so. I think it's Aryadeva.

He mentions those two guys by name and gulks them. Yeah, he refutes them. Yeah, Shantipa's mainly mine-only, so he's trying to refute Aryadeva and Hariputra, which would imply that they're not mine-only.

You see what I mean? But somebody else said they were. He's saying it's confusing, okay?

A typical mine-only guy did not bother to, to, sorry, he did fight against these two guys specifically, which means they shouldn't have been mine-only, okay? Because he's a famous mine-only, okay? Abhyakara Lasopani, these guys, Abhyakara is another great Indian writer between the Buddha and Tsongkhapa.

He did mention Senggye Tsangmo by name. Hariputra, Hariputra wrote the greatest commentaries to Abhisamaya Orangkara, okay? By?

[Speaker 3]
Maitreya.

[Speaker 1]
Maitreya, okay. So, he did mention him directly by name and he gulped him. He refuted him, okay?

Kyang. But, he wasn't able, Minoo, to argue against Bhakpa or Dru, Bhakpa or Dru. I guess it's, hmm, it could be, it could be Bhakpa-Drude, yeah, but I'm not sure.

So anyway, some people were criticized directly, some people were not criticized directly. Does that impact the earlier sentence we had about pick your fights? You see what I mean?

He's saying pick your fights well, and even historically, we see that some authors didn't try to pick on other authors, okay? Dron Rinpoche, Dawa Denla Bepekapsu, young. In fact, when that author presents the correct view of reality, Dawa, he even jens the kung.

Kung means source, scriptural source. Jen means the quote. He quotes Dawa.

He quotes Chandrakirti. Nangal, he appears to quote. He appears to be referring to Chandrakirti.

He's just saying there's a lot of confusion about who's who, and it seems that even in ancient times, some people chose not to pick certain fights. Okay. Who's next?

Paul, we got some time? We got a little time. Yeah, we do have a little time.

Okay, let's do it. I think we're gonna make it through the whole night without ripping out this cord. I should have been picking online people, sorry.

It was just a little bit of acrobatics for me. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Can I turn it over to this? Deitarimpa, is that nang or mang? Mang du yuk yang.

Dawa drakpa dang shiwa la.

[Speaker 1]
Shiwa. Low tone. Shiwa.

Shiwa la means that daddy died. Shiwa la means shantideva.

[Speaker 2]
Shiwa la.

[Speaker 1]
Now you can translate.

[Speaker 2]
No, I can't.

[Speaker 1]
Mang means—no, sit down. Mang means many, and rimpa you know from Lamrim. There are many steps involved here.

You know, there's many stages in historical development of Madhyamika, but we can say one thing, and you guys shouldn't forget it. Okay, you can forget the paragraphs above that, but this paragraph you shouldn't forget. Dawa drakpa, chandakirti and shiwa la, shantideva.

These two, mentioning them by name, tsen ne, ming ne, from their name. Mentioning them by name, and then gokpa them, contradict them, refute them. Anybody from Gyakor, Gyakor what?

Suang me. There's no one in the history of Indian Buddhism who tried to refute chandakirti and shantideva.

[Speaker 3]
Wow.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. And Gyakor, Gyakor kyepay shun kang nayang, and there's no scripture you can find from the Masters of India, which attempts to contradict those two. And in general, although chandakirti was writing in response to who?

Baba Viveka. You know, he's saying no sane person ever tried to contradict chandakirti or, who's the other one? Shantideva.

Yeah. They're considered the later Madhyamika guys, the definitely higher school, higher group, Prasangika. The two, they're the two main Prasangika guys.

Nobody ever tried to contradict them. Okay? Cool?

Why not? Oh, now that's an implication isn't it? I'm not saying, I'm not going there.

[Speaker 2]
Maybe nobody could refute them.

[Speaker 1]
Well, if you're interested, the next sentence starts with, okay, that's just for Chloe, unkyang, and we're not going to read the whole sentence, we're just going to read the first line.

[Speaker 2]
Unkyang. Those fools from Tibet.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, there were idiots from Tibet, not Indians. No Indian ever tried to contradict these two guys. But there were idiots from Tibet who, and name, we're going to pick that up in the next class.

Which means 507 and 508 and 509 for you. Okay? Okay, thank you so much.

507, 8 and 9. Okay. By the way, I believe—let me get this right.

What's the day today? The 12th. I believe you're getting very close to the end of your first book.

I think she's within one page though. Her book has to be split into five books and she's approaching the end of the first book after four years or something. Okay.

[Speaker 3]
Cake.

[Speaker 1]
Chloe's become Americanized. Everything is a reason to eat cake. I agree.

Okay, take a small break and we'll go to—right? We'll see you back in 15 minutes Geshe-la. 15 minutes.

I could do a number—oh yeah. Okay. Whatever you need to do, we see.

No detail. All right, see you guys in 15 minutes. Thank you.

Thanks everybody. Thank you all so much for being here. Stick around for cataloging if you would like.

It's so exciting. It is, if you're a mixed nerd. No, I can't.

[Speaker 3]
I can't close it.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, we can turn off the camera.