Бетси Грир — Книга 2: Интерлюдия о пустоте, занятие 77

[Speaker 2]
Hi, I didn't, I'm still working on preparing the homework for display so I'll just read it.

[Speaker 1]
Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Welcome to the quiz on Interlude on Emptiness from our class in November.

[Speaker 1]
Now having dispensed with the claim that the text Nothing to Fear was an auto-commentary to the root text on Wisdom, what question is next asked of K. Drupje? I can't hear you, Geshe Michael, if you're...

Oh, I was saying, I don't want to take all the credit from somebody else, let's see. I can't hear you at all. We can.

[Speaker 2]
We can hear him. We can. We hear him, Utpala.

It might be your volume.

[Speaker 1]
I'm the only one. So, someone please record it for me because it's not working. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
I don't know, can you hear me?

[Speaker 3]
We can hear you.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, we can hear you.

[Speaker 3]
Yes, we can hear you. We all said the right answer but you couldn't hear it.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. How do I show her?

[Speaker 3]
I don't think she's...

[Speaker 1]
She's invisible?

[Speaker 3]
Let me see.

[Speaker 1]
Okay.

[Speaker 3]
Okay. Oh, you can't...

[Speaker 1]
Oh, okay, you can't change it.

[Speaker 2]
We just spent a lot of time in this book with K. Drupje fending off arguments that Arya Nagarjuna wrote the text called Nothing to Fear.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Right? So, we finished that.

He finished that.

[Speaker 2]
He kicked their argument out the door. Now, here comes a new question. Does anyone remember what the new question is?

[Speaker 1]
She didn't share her screen. She cannot. Something wrong.

You're going to have to help us, Utpala, because it's too little to go on. Okay. Then the next question is, well, was Chandrakirti a direct disciple of Arya Nagarjuna or not?

[Speaker 2]
Right. It's such a short question, I couldn't give you hints. Some people say.

Okay. I guess maybe we should do someone else's text because this is not working, apparently. I'm really sorry.

[Speaker 1]
What happened? Can you hear any of us? I can hear you, Nick.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Maybe it's better now. Can you hear me also?

[Speaker 1]
I can hear... Can you hear me? I can hear you a little bit.

Oh. Everything's up as far as it'll go.

[Speaker 3]
It's not from us. It's not us.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, it's not us.

[Speaker 3]
Anybody else can hear you.

[Speaker 1]
Well, why don't we start with the text then? Is that okay? Is that okay?

Okay, well, we can do my homework if you want. Yeah. Okay, go ahead.

[Speaker 2]
My translation homework. Go ahead.

[Speaker 3]
Let's do... Can you share that, Utpala?

[Speaker 2]
I'm trying.

[Speaker 3]
Okay, cool, cool. Great. Good, good, good.

There it is.

[Speaker 1]
All right. Okay, now we got you. Okay.

Do you want to read the Tibetan, please? I'll read it. Go ahead.

Okay, I'll read. It's... It's from now.

Okay? It's from now. It's from now.

Good. MA'I PHRID PA'I DE KHO NA NI CHUD PA TZAM BRAS LAS NI LUS GRUB TZAM LTA BA'I LUS LAS GZHAN GYIS DE KHO NA NI GONG DU NI CHUD PAR BSHAD DO Okay, good. So, the question is, Nagarjuna, who lived 200 AD, was he the direct teacher of Chandrakirti, who wrote maybe the greatest commentary on Nagarjuna?

Nagarjuna's work is probably the most famous work on emptiness ever written. And Chandrakirti wrote a commentary. Most people would say Chandrakirti lived 500 years, 300 years later.

But, it's also said that Nagarjuna lived for 600 years. So, maybe it's possible. Okay?

So, although Abhyakara isn't considered as holding the consequence branch... Yeah, good. Okay.

Although, I would read it as the viewpoints of Abhyakara and so on. You see what I mean? You got to catch the soak, okay?

See what I mean? Can you hear me? I'm sorry, could you say that again?

I'm sorry. The tawa should be read as, although the viewpoint of Abhyakara isn't said to be telling you, okay? You got to catch the tawa, okay?

Okay, let's say that. But, the fact is, he didn't write anything that was contradictory to or refuted Chandrakirti. Even in the slightest.

Ching tse kyang min tse shing. Yeah, good. Yeah.

He didn't...this is interesting. MI BSTUN SANGS PA'I, MI BSTUN PA'I SANGS PA'I, say MI BSTUN PA'I? SANGS PA'I With any thought of disagreement, okay?

With any thought of disagreement, he didn't disagree with...he didn't deny the positions of Chandrakirti, okay? Alright? Which implies what?

He may have reported some people who disagreed with him. You see what I mean? He wasn't...it wasn't his intention to criticize Chandrakirti, but without thinking that he himself didn't agree with Chandrakirti, he may have said some things that sounded like he didn't agree with Chandrakirti, but he might have been just reporting other people. That's the point, okay? CHUNG TSE MIN TSE CING, LTA BA BSTAN LA BAS PA'I TSE Yeah, when he was setting forth his own viewpoints, it...then this SNANG means what? It would appear.

Okay, that's K.W.J. It would appear, meaning I'm not sure. Got it? It would appear that he's a weird guy.

I mean, maybe he's not. Got it? It would appear that he takes as KUNG, source material, okay?

Some parts of the...of the text of Jigpa, Entering the Middle Way. Yeah, which is Chandrakirti's big work, okay? When he's describing the view of emptiness, when he describes emptiness, he does source, he uses as a source Chandrakirti, so it would be weird to say he didn't agree with Chandrakirti, okay?

Alright. Then they're talking about Maitripa. Who wrote a book called DE KHO NA NYID CHUG PA The Book of the Ten Suchnesses, meaning the Ten Forms of Emptiness, okay?

He wrote...from in there, he...in there it says, you cannot KUNG DU CHUD. KUNG DU CHUD means grasp, okay? You cannot grasp this system of Nagarjuna unless you understand the system of Chandrakirti.

So it doesn't...he's refuting people who said that Nagarjuna and Chandrakirti weren't tight. Okay? Alright?

That's all. Cool? And there was a root text for the Ten Kinds of Suchness, and there was a commentary.

Two things. Sando and Sando. Root text and commentary.

Okay. Alright. Let's go to the...

Who's going to read the next paragraph? Utpala?

[Speaker 2]
I'll go ahead and do it. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
PHRAG RTOG GI STON GYIS BLANG BA'I RTOG THAMS SBYUNG RGYAL DU MA BA And I could not make head or tails at the beginning. Oh, yeah. Okay.

It's very funny and it's very colloquial. Okay? Therefore, DE BA'I NA, some people who are following Chandrakirti's work, they're trying to explain Chandrakirti's work, DGOS BA'I PO PA DGOS BA means to be a person who disagrees.

Okay? An opponent philosophically. Okay?

DGOS BA'I PO PA PO PA means the guts. To have the guts to contradict Chandrakirti. Okay?

People got the guts to... TZAM MI NUS Nobody showed up to the debate. Nobody had the guts.

Okay? RGYUD CHEN And there's nobody that we would call a Mahasiddha, a great, accomplished person. There's nobody that we would consider YI CHE GYI MED someone we could credit, someone we could believe.

Okay? But there are people who RJES SU BDRAG DANG MA BDAN There were people who followed these guys who didn't know what they're talking about. Okay?

And they tried to DGOS PA BDAG BA BDRAG PA They tried to refute Chandrakirti. Good. Chandrakirti.

And that proves they were LUM PO Really stupid. Yeah, LUM PO means a fool. What's DO BRTZANG SNGON?

DO BRTZANG SNGON Very, very, very famous sutra by Lord Buddha. The Sutra of the Wise and the Foolish. Yeah, the Sutra of the Wise and the Fools.

The Wise and the Fools. It's a beautiful sutra. It's a beautiful name for a book.

Maybe it'd be a good name for our band. The Wise and the Fools. Okay.

Keep looking for a name for our rock and roll band. How about the Wise Men and the Fools? Okay.

Then they can try to guess who's who. LUM PO Okay. Those idiots who tried to criticize Chandrakirti they have SPANG PA JIG RTEN PA ROL Yeah, they have abandoned their next life.

Okay. They have given up on their next life. Okay.

JIG RTEN PA ROL means the next world. The coming world. Meaning, if the implication is they're going to be born in the hell realms or something because they criticized a great teacher.

RDO RGYUD is two divisions of the Buddhist teachings.

[Speaker 2]
Sutras and Tantras.

[Speaker 1]
Yes, Sutras and Tantras. Open teachings and secret teachings. SHUNG LUG means the scriptural tradition.

SHUNG means major scripture. RGYA CHEN PO BDAG in detail. Did they...

Did they ever study a great deal of scripture? LOG PA means... and I'm not talking understanding it.

I'm talking LOG PA TZAM. Did they ever have a chance to read it out loud once? Okay.

MA BYAS Yeah, they are criticizing Chandrakirti and by implication Nagarjuna without ever having read any of the thousands of pages you'd have to read to criticize them skillfully. Okay, got it? They never read anything.

MA BYAS PAR It's all PHRAG RDOG. It's all nonsense. It's all...no. PHRAG RDOG.

[Speaker 3]
Jealousy.

[Speaker 1]
It's sheer jealousy. He got famous, they didn't, so they criticize him, okay? It happens.

PHRAG RDOG. RDOG means... DUD.

Same as DUD. Yeah, demon. LANG BA'I means...

means a demon took them over. They were... what do you call that in English?

[Speaker 3]
Possessed.

[Speaker 1]
They were possessed by a demon and they started to criticize Chandrakirti. He's just being himself. He and his brother Gyaltsabje, they like to say rough things.

Okay, I'm sorry. They would say it's justified. Okay?

They would say someone who attacked the greatest emptiness writer in history and his student deserves some harsh words. They would say that. Okay?

Got it? Okay. RDOG DAM means...

blah blah, blather. Blather. Blah blah, blah blah blah.

Okay? RDOG DAM. It means, I don't know, someone who's really drunk.

You know, just blah blah blah blah blah blah. And then he says, BYUNG RGYAL. Say BYUNG RGYAL.

BYUNG RGYAL. BYUNG RGYAL means whatever the hell comes to mind. They just blather.

You know? Okay? It's very harsh.

The wording is very harsh. That's how they MA WA. That's how they speak.

That's how they speak. Okay? Alright?

Basically, they're all idiots. They don't know what they're talking about. Anything they say is like a drunk person's talk.

Okay? Thank you. I'm glad you couldn't translate it because your mind is so pure you couldn't.

Okay. Don't laugh so hard. Wait, we got to do this BSTAN PA'I SNYING PO thing.

You want to read that one? Yeah. YID RGYUR BA'I GZHAN DBANG DU SONG BA DAG GIS PHAM LA LO GRU DANG BSTAN PA DAG NI LEGS SU GZHAN DBANG DU SONG BA DAG GIS NA BA BTAG PAR Yeah, good.

I might have said a bit of that, but yeah, pretty good translation. Thank you. Okay.

Those of you endowed with intelligence and desire for the best for yourself, cover your ears from such talk. It's a pretty good translation. Okay, yeah, you could say that.

Yeah, you could say that. Okay, du kyi ri. Du kyi ri means kind of like they've joined the demon's family.

Yeah. They've joined the what? Demon's family.

Ri means family. Okay, du means demon. They have joined the diabolical forces of darkness.

Okay, yi gyur means to have your opinions influenced by somebody. So they've been hanging out with demons and their opinions were influenced. Gyur means to transform.

By the way, there's an excellent word here that relates to the mind-only school. I'll give $100 for anyone who can identify it. Geng Wang.

Yeah, who is that? Tim. Tim, $100.

But you know, you can't get it just like that. I want to know, what do you think the Geng Wang means here? Under the influence of?

Wait, I'm asking Tim, so he can earn his money. In what sense here would somebody have Geng Wang? Because Geng Wang in mind-only philosophy means cause and effect.

Because effects are at the mercy of their causes. As the cause goes, the effect must follow. The effect is an innocent bystander who must follow the cause.

That's Geng Wang. That's why all cause things are called power of others. Okay, now you can explain what it means here.

[Speaker 2]
Well, that they're under the influence of, right? The minds are... Good, of who?

Influences are dominated by these, I like best translation, diabolical gods.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, good. Okay, that's all. That's all.

You get a good sense of what the word means in the mind-only school in this sentence in which it's used colloquially. Okay, these guys were hanging around demons and they got Geng Wang. Yeah, strongly influenced.

Brainwashed. And in that sense, results are brainwashed by the causes. They must follow the causes.

So, the mind-only school's word for caused entities is brainwashed. Okay, or at the mercy of... at the mercy of these bad dudes.

Okay, and he's trying to soften his language, why? By the way Tim, you did get the hundred bucks next time I see you. He's trying to soften his language, why?

You don't just blow somebody away and say you're an idiot, you know. You say you're an idiot but, you know, you couldn't really help it. It's the demons took over your mind.

It's okay. All right? That's kind of Buddhist.

All right, let's go to new stuff. Mmm, where are you? Hang on, I gotta find you.

He's groaning. Okay, hang on, I gotta... I gotta call up this text, hang on.

Oh no. Okay, come on honey bunny. Okay, now I have to share my screen, right?

This. Where are we? Closet?

Closet this one? Okay, I have to go back to here. Okay.

Share Internet. Okay, there we go. All right kids, cover your ears.

[Speaker 2]
491, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, good. Who's going to read? Benerable Chinzon, could you read please?

Okay, Benerable Chinzon. Hello. Okay.

Mawanyi. Mawanyi. Mawanyi.

Mawanyi. Okay, somebody comes and says, Sarche. Sarche.

Amazing. Okay, like Mozart. Amazing.

Okay, it's not that amazing that somebody would kakpa dawa drakpa. Yeah, why are you so freaked out that someone's trying to disagree with Chandrakirti? It's not such a big deal.

Why? Because... oh by the way, people who say this are lumbos.

Fools. Idiots. Fools.

Okay, some fools come and say, why are you so freaked out that someone is criticizing Chandrakirti? Because, BOD KYI BSKYED PAR BSNGA MA.

[Speaker 2]
Because the earlier masters in the land of the ghosts. Tibet?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Kacik, some of them, kakpa. They kakpa Chandrakirti.

They refuted him. Yeah. Look, there's lots of early Tibetan Buddhists who said that Nagarjuna and Chandrakirti were crazy, and they disagreed with them.

Okay, got it. And by the way, we're going to deal with the database this evening. We're going to figure out what books can we put in the database.

We're going to talk about, should we put books in the database which explain emptiness in a wrong way? And what do we do about the people in between, who were on the edge of the new view? You know, when people started to understand Nagarjuna, there were some scholars whose mind changed in their life.

Do you put all their books in the database? You see what I mean? Okay, it's going to be, we can talk about it tonight.

These are big decisions, because the books that were put into the original database called the Kānyāna Tenggyur survived, and no other books survived. At all. Nothing.

Okay? No other manuscripts survived. Only the ones that made it into the ancient database survived today.

So, that's a big decision. Okay? Okay, anyway, Lumbokarjika, some people say it's not such a big deal because some of the early Tibetans criticized Chandrakirti.

So, why are you so amazed? Sar Tzar Che, you know? Sar Che Gyu.

This gyu means cause, but with a verb it means...

[Speaker 2]
To move around, to force, to shift? No.

[Speaker 1]
It means there's no reason why you should be so freaked out. Che gyu. There's no reason why you should...

It means reason why you should do that, you know? Why are you so freaked out that people are criticizing Chandrakirti? Lots of early Tibetans criticized Chandrakirti, and that's true.

The first Buddhists in Tibet, some of them criticized... They had no idea about emptiness. Nothing.

It's very similar to the West. Okay, next. Very cute answer, but it's a hot one.

Who gets that one? Who'd bother?

[Speaker 2]
Catherine Yang, would you like to read? Sar Tzar Che Gyu Cheang Mey Tung She Mula Tabmey Meypao Mok, Tab Myung Sung Yong Shik.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, okay, cool. It's very amusing. K.

Dub Jey at his best, which we haven't seen that much so far. He's kind of let... I don't know, he must have had a bad day or something.

These are very, very famous. MA ZAD PAR ZAD.

[Speaker 2]
Kill your mother and kill your father.

[Speaker 1]
Kill your mother, kill your father. And that's a famous sentence by Lord Buddha that was meant to be interpreted as meaning, sometimes you got to leave home and strike out on your own and figure life out, and then come back and take care of your parents. Okay?

Something like that. But, so people misquote it. People take it out of context.

Buddha said, kill your mother, kill your father. That's not what he said. Okay, MA ZAD.

Now he says, MANG DU CHUNG. CHUNG. Yeah, it happened.

CHUNG. Yeah, it happened a lot. Lots of people killed their mother, killed their father.

It really did happen. In history, like, what's his name? Who killed Udayana, his father?

Bimbisara. Unborn enemy. MAKIR DA.

Yeah, AJATHA. AJATHA SHATRU. The unborn enemy who killed his father.

Okay? And was predicted in the womb. He's called the unborn enemy.

Okay, MA ZAD PAR DANG PHAR ZAD PAR SNGA YANG. MANG DU CHUNG BA'I. Okay, lots of people before killed their mothers and killed their fathers.

THA LTA LAS MNYAM PA DE DAG GU BYAS PA LA. TSAR BYAS RGYU BYAS PA LA. Why is it such a big deal?

Someone nowadays kills their mom or their dad. Why would you ever take any interest? I mean, because lots of people did it before.

And because lots of early Tibetans criticized Chandrakirti. Why are you so freaked out that someone's doing it now? It's the same argument.

Why is it newsworthy that someone killed their mother or their father when so many have done it in the history of humankind? That's the same. RIG PA GO TSUNG.

Parallel argument. Okay. BYAS MED DO.

Hey, no problem. MED PA LA. BDAG PA'I MED PA THA DANG MNYAMS SU LONG BZHIN.

Then I think you should undertake every filthy action that's ever been criticized by the good people. Okay? I mean, if you're gonna kill your mother and kill your father, you might as well steal your grandma's money and stuff like that.

Kick your dog. Stuff like that. She didn't say that when I said kill your mother and kill your father.

Okay. Okay, who's reading? RIG PA LA.

[Speaker 2]
Is there a reciting?

[Speaker 1]
Would you like to read? Oh, hi there. Thank you.

493?

[Speaker 3]
Yes.

[Speaker 2]
SNGAR BCUNG PA LA GNAD TSOGS PAR GZHIG YOD DE BO LA GZHUGS THOB RDZO MED THA BUR BYAGS PA'I MAN LUNG DGU ROL GYANG PHAG PA LUS GRUB LAS PAR GYAG CING Yeah, good, nice.

[Speaker 1]
We see a whole lot of similar cases having happened in the past. SNGAR BCUNG in the past. GNAD TSOGS means a whole variety.

There came lots of cases in the past where what? Somebody criticized Chandrakirti. For example, in Pela, in Tibet.

Nice. GZHUGS THOB RDZO MED THA BUR Someone who seemed to be indisputably RDZO MED, a great saint or a great yogi. There was one who was said to be someone RDZO MED.

No one could argue that he wasn't a great yogi. What's his name? Man Lung Guru.

Man Lung Guru. This guru is Sanskrit. His name was Guru from Man Lung.

Man Lung is like Rimrock. Rimrock Guru. KYANG, HE LAS PAR BKAG TU LUS GRUB He eloquently disputed Nagarjuna very well.

Yeah, he did a very sophisticated criticism of Nagarjuna. Who's going to read the next one?

[Speaker 3]
Let's see. Sorry.

[Speaker 2]
Marina, please, could you read?

[Speaker 1]
Mari?

[Speaker 2]
Nice. Nice.

[Speaker 1]
Ticker. It's like tickle. Ticker.

Ticker. Gotencha.

[Speaker 2]
DRAG GIS KUN LAS DU GYIS DANG NOR BAR ZHES NOR BAR ZHES DU ZHES DGAG PA ZHES Nice.

[Speaker 1]
Very nice. You're getting there. It's good.

Okay. So somebody wrote a ticker. I said ticker.

It's an ancient Sanskrit word for a commentary. Okay, ticker. To KUN LAS DGOS PA, SEMS KUN LAS DGOS PA, this is Dignaga's famous compendium of logic.

Okay? And somebody named Chomden Relty, which means like Buddha sword. Personal name.

Somebody named Buddha sword said in a commentary to this logic book of Dignaga. Okay? RANG GIS RNAMS BDAG DANG THON PAR BYED MA SHES There's people who don't know how to give a good explanation of RNAMS BDAG, which is the commentary on accurate perception, which was Dignaga's disciple Dharmakirti's famous commentary on logic.

Okay? THON PAR BYED MA SHES Some people don't know how to explain it. GANG CHUNG DU CHOS BDAG GANG CHUNG means they just say whatever comes to mind.

GANG CHUNG. CHOS BDAG GIS KUN LAS DU GYIS DANG NOR BAR ZHES They say that CHOS BDAG, Dharmakirti, explained KUN LAS DUG PA, the Pramana Samuccaya, by his teacher Dignaga, NOR.

[Speaker 2]
Incorrectly.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, they say that. Okay? RGAGS PA CHE LA That's something we should argue against.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
He tried to say that Dharmakirti didn't understand his teacher's book. Okay? I mean, they're on the subject of stupid people saying stupid things.

They're just piling them up. Okay? Okay, who's next?

Let's see. Are you four? Oh no, he's translating.

[Speaker 2]
Amanda?

[Speaker 1]
This is where they pretend their sound is off. Yeah. PHOS SNGA MA SKAD PAR DRAG PA GA'I PHYI SKYES BAR ZHIN BYAS PA NA BYAS TZUN BYANG KUN LA YANG RDO DANG MA THON PA'I KHYUN RJE GYI TZIG GSUR DRID PA NA Good, nice.

PHOS SNGA MA Some Tibetans of the past, some Tibetans of the past. SKAD PAR DRAG PA Everyone said they were great thinkers. There were people in Tibet in the past that everybody said were great thinkers.

Some of them. When they were trying to SPYAD PAR BAR BYED When they were trying to speak about... They were trying to comment on the meaning of the perfection of wisdom.

Which, by the way, sometimes means those massive sutras on emptiness, and sometimes means the lower middle way school. Which one is it here, do you think? Sutras.

Nope, it's the lower middle way school. Because the next person they mention is Je Tsongkapa. Maitreya.

Okay, who wrote the textbook Abhisam Alankara for the lower middle way. So they say he also made mistakes that were inconsistent with DO. They criticized Maitreya, the presentation of lower middle way.

Got it? Maitreya is the next Buddha. Okay, GYUR GYI GZIGS TSUL KHRID PA NANG DE GZIGS TSUL KHRID PA means it seems like they were trying to say that.

Like he's kind of... He's like, man, they even have these side comments criticizing the coming Buddha that he didn't know he was talking about. He says if that's possible, then anything's possible.

Alright? Yeah? Shouldn't it be MI THON?

Why is it MA THON? It should be MI. Yeah, I think so.

I'll put a question mark. We'll look it up. Okay, good call.

Alright, who's going to read 496? Emily. Emily.

Emily. Emily. Yeah.

By the way, he's using very harsh and very colloquial language from 600 years ago. So it's difficult. He's mixing high philosophy with modern lingo of his time, which to us would be...

[Speaker 2]
Oh, what's that word for blithering?

[Speaker 1]
One dot of prayer where they shot a sock that a drug that mares had pears into the rotten bar that everybody be in and we should secure it. We should be doing gender list of lure. Okay?

I mean, to understand someone cursing out somebody 500 years ago is difficult, okay? Then there are BAB CHU. BAB CHU means to say whatever comes to mind.

Just blur it out. Blur it out. Blur it out.

LUS MI GYUD PA means your mind hasn't been able to embrace. This GYUD PA means to embrace and it's very important in the Diamond Way, in the tantric texts, okay? GYUD PA.

Your mind is trying to do some incompetent embracing of ideas. THAMS CAD DGRA PA CHEN PO DAG GIS. Then you're trying to say that people that were recognized as famous, DGRA PA, it's a pun.

Chandrakirti. We've been talking about Dharmakirti and Chandrakirti. So, to mention kirti is kind of cool.

DGRA PA CHEN PO. These very kirti guys, get it? DAG GIS, MA BA'I RGYUD ZAN DU BYAS NAS.

You're talking about what they said. You're trying to show how it makes you look smart. RANG NYID CI DU.

So, CI DU means NGOS TZAM MED PA. Shamelessly? Shamelessly, yeah.

Like, you are criticizing people who, if you studied for a hundred years, you would never understand a sentence. Seriously, okay? MA BA'I RGYUD.

BDAG RDZOGS SU TSOR BA'I PHYAL BAR GA LA YIN. So, how can what you're saying be... It might be BDAG RDZOGS SU.

BDAG RDZOGS SU TSOR BA'I PHYAL BAR GA LA YIN. Well, I don't think it is. And I think it's another pun.

BDAG RDZOGS is Chandrakirti. BDAG RDZOGS means to be the moon to another person, which means to be the buddies with somebody. Sometimes BDAG means buddy.

Buddy of the sun, for example.

[Speaker 2]
Friend of Chandrakirti or friend of...

[Speaker 1]
Oh no, you're trying to... You're trying to be buddies with all these people who are making ridiculous criticisms. That's what he's saying.

TSOR BA'I means you're trying to do it. That's the TSOR in CHAGS TSAL. To seek a boon from the him.

PHYAL BAR GA LA YIN. GA LA YIN means what the... You know, okay?

Then, RGYUG PA. This is what my teacher called me every day, over and over. RGYUG PA.

Idiot. Okay, RGYUG PA. Idiot.

And it does literally mean someone who cannot speak or hear. But it's also used as a criticism of a disciple. RGYUG PA.

RGYUG PA'I RIGS NGOS SOR MA BYAS CIG. NGOS SOR means to say someone's an amazing person. So he says, don't go around saying idiots are amazing people.

Meaning the people who criticize Chandrakirti. And Dharmakirti. Okay, I don't think he's done yet.

I think he's still going. Who's going to read? No one's really at home.

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
NGOS SOR MA BYAS CIG. I think I'm not going to read it. PANDITAR CHE NA.

PANDITAR CHE NA. NAROPA TSOKTEN GI PANDITAR CHE MAWANI. NAROPA TSOKTEN GI PANDITAR CHE MAWANI.

NAROPE DRON MA SELWAY CHE DRANG NE. NAROPE DRON MA SELWAY CHE DRANG NE. Good, okay, kācig means some guys showed up, and they said dawa drakpa, Master Chandrakirti, tsun den, tsun den means...

the... how do you say... when do you say bad times?

Days of dark. Tsun den means the times of argument, which is a synonym for dark days in the world. Dark days in history, okay, tsun den.

These are periods in history that are bad times, like there's world wars or stuff like that. He says Chandrakirti qualified as a sage, but only in tsun den. You know, only in the days just after nuclear war he would be considered exceptional, because everyone else was dead, or something like that.

It's a very crude thing to say, okay, pāṇḍita-cena. So, dawa drakpa Chandrakirti is just a... what do you call those movies about...

post-apocalyptic? Yeah, he's just an apocalyptic wise man, meaning there's... everyone else is dead, okay, that's really what it means.

He's an apocalypse scholar. Now, Naropa, he's a dzogden pāṇḍita. He's a hundred percent...

he's a hundred percent wise man, pāṇḍita, okay, he's a hundred percent pāṇḍita. Naropa, okay, Shemavani, you guys who say that kind of stuff. Chandrakirti was a wise man for the days when everyone else was dead, and Naropa was a wise man, a hundred percent, okay, got it?

So, I guess you never heard Naropa said, he's... now he's going to quote Naropa to the guy, okay. Oh, didn't Naropa say, dronma-seway jedaṃ ne, luduṃ meṅgaśepayin, it's poetry, okay, dronma-seway jedaṃ ne, I was following the lamp of light, which is a lower middleweight text.

In that book, I guess Chandrakirti explains luduṃ meṅgaśepayin, the private, personal, lips-to-ear advice of Nāgārjuna himself, meaning Chandrakirti was Nāgārjuna's disciple. So, if you say Chandrakirti was a slouch, Naropa was a master, then I guess Naropa didn't say that Chandrakirti was amazing, okay, that's all, got it? I think it's Bhagavad-gītā, I'm not sure, word would know, dronma-seway, it might also be, it might also, there's one by Pratyekabuddha named that, but it's a Pratyekabuddha something.

I think it is, I think it is Pratyekabuddha Tārā, Bhagavad-gītā, I don't know, I think it is, but the master of the lower middleweight, okay. Now we're gonna get, I guess it's another quotation from Naropa, okay, who's very late by the way, he's from 1000 AD, he's, he's just before Buddhism was wiped out in India, he was in the final days of Buddhism in India, okay. Yeah, I don't know, let me see, dronma-seway, jadāgne, oh, Bhagavad-gītā respected Chandrakirti, he just misinterpreted him, so he says, he's following, I believe he's saying, he followed Bhaviveka's respect for Chandrakirti, and said that he is the one who can explain Nagarjuna.

It's all references to Chandrakirti.

[Speaker 3]
Bhaviveka's before him.

[Speaker 1]
No, I, oh and then Chandrakirti defended Buddha, defended Buddhapalita. Yeah, okay, so anyways, must be another dronma-seway, okay. There's many books called Clear Light of the Lamp, but I can, okay, if you really want to know, let's go look it up in the database, okay, let's, let's show the databases muscles, okay.

So we'll take a unique piece out of the quotation, and we'll go to, put on the glasses, and we'll go here, you can't see it I think. So, I'm searching for the word, the advices of Nagarjuna, okay, and then I'm saying, near the word follow, and I did not give it a tense, I just looked for the root of the word, okay, and I'm going to say proximity for three lines, and now I'll search every book written from the time of the Buddha to the time when Buddhism reached Tibet, which is 1,500 years, 15 centuries.

[Speaker 2]
Geshe-la, we're not able to see what you're doing.

[Speaker 1]
I'm sorry. Stop share, re-share, okay. Geshe-la, there's seven books in the Tangyur that have Jun Marcel.

Oh no, I'm being more picky, I'm looking for pieces of the quotation itself. Oh perfect. Okay, cool.

Sure. Yeah, so I got to make sure I'm not, so now I'm looking in the 4,000 books from, that survived from ancient India, ready? One, two, three, by the way, because of the structure of the database, it's instantaneous, because it runs off of the operating system, and it's not a separate program.

Okay, and yeah, that's it, right? Yeah, that's it. Yeah, it doesn't say who the author is, but it's a Tantric work.

Okay, and I'll go find the author for you. We go to the end of the book. Oops, it's at the end of the book.

Nyen-drak Sambho, Kirtibhadra or something like that. Okay, it's a ancient Indian Tantric commentary with the same name of bright lamp. Okay, all right, okay.

Yes, again, what number is it? 1787? I can't see the very bottom of your window.

It is TDO 1787, yep. That might be a commentary again. If you want to go that way, then we'll look up 1787.

I'm looking in the Tohoku right now. In the Tohoku catalog of the Tengyur. We found a copy in Kyoto, by the way.

There's what they say, Nyen-drak Sambho. We don't see that. Nyen-drak Sambho, it's what I said.

It's a guy named Famous Goodness or something. Not somebody we know. I'm sorry, what were you just looking up?

I'm getting confused here. I was looking up the author who wrote the lines that we're using. Again.

What? Sorry. It says it's from the Jun Masao.

Yeah, but we're just trying to see who wrote that. 1785 is also Jun Masao, and it's written by Chandrakirti, so that might be the one he's referring to. No, it's not, because there's no other hits in the database, unless someone misnumbered the catalog.

We didn't read this. Do we still have time? Yeah, I do.

We'll search for this quotation to word and see where it hits, okay? Yeah, I'm looking in the 1785 right now, again. Okay, go.

Who's going to read? Keep going.

[Speaker 3]
Okay, good.

[Speaker 1]
Let's translate this. Is it chun dzam? Lopun means?

Master. Right. Lodrup.

Aryadeva. So, already you feel he's gonna point to a lineage. You got Nagarjuna, then his disciple Aryadeva, who wrote the 400 verses.

Then you've got Nagabodhi. Then you've got Shakyashinian, Shakyamitra. Then you've got Dalai Lama, Chandrakirti, etc.

The mengak, the teachings, advices, came down from them rimba-rimba, step-by-step through the generations, okay? Dakye Gyi. I have written my book based on this lineage.

Okay, who said that? Naropa. Okay, so Naropa said, he did depend on Chandrakirti.

Don't give me this stuff about him not liking Chandrakirti. Got it? If you're interested, we can look for that in the database.

We have time. I'm trying to find... then you have to find something unique in the quotation, because otherwise you're going to hit 400 places.

So, I say... Okay. Chang chup shak.

Okay. Okay. No, that's not good enough.

Let's go. We don't want to do the shakya, because it's too easy to misspell. Let's do mengak rimba la.

Okay. Then we go to the search program. Here.

You okay? Did somebody barf? Sorry, that was me.

You were burping, or that was Jaru? It was Jaru, yeah. He heard something.

You always blame Jaru. God, I'm glad I don't live in your house.

[Speaker 2]
He's just a good dog. He's protecting us.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, here we go. Do a little prayer. Let's do a little prayer for you.

Okay, this one, right? Okay, we took a piece of... We took a unique piece of this quotation.

We want to see if it's really by... Naropa.

[Speaker 2]
Naropa.

[Speaker 1]
Ta-da. It hit. Oh, it is the same book.

Which makes me wonder if... this... Nyen dak sang book is Naropa.

You see what I mean? Yeah, I don't know. We have to study it later.

We have to study it further. Okay? How are we doing on time?

We got three minutes. Don't waste the three minutes. Please continue.

We're going to approach it soon. No, we won't. Okay.

Okay. Stop. Stop there.

Stop there. Okay? We got just time to do that.

This is interesting. You guys can read it if you think about it. Dawa dakpa.

[Speaker 2]
Chandrakirti.

[Speaker 1]
Kong means before. Okay? Before he entered ngak.

Yeah. Before Chandrakirti studied tantra. Nge dun ma go mispelled.

Thank you. He didn't understand the art of interpretation? Yeah, he didn't understand what was really meant.

Before he studied tantra, Chandrakirti didn't understand the real meaning. Then, ngak la shug ne.

[Speaker 3]
He did enter.

[Speaker 1]
After he had entered tantra, nge dun ko. He did understand the higher meaning of emptiness. Okay?

She mawa ni. People who say that kind of thing. Okay?

Chandrakirti, before he studied tantra, didn't know what the heck he's talking about. After he studied tantra, he figured out what he's talking about. People who talk like that, cha me bi gyur tam gyi.

That's totally baseless blather. Okay? Khyepa dag ngotsara chepay sik.

If a wise person heard you talk like that, they would be... they go like this in the debate ground. Ashamed.

Their cheeks would be flaming with shame. Any scholar who heard you say that, they would be so embarrassed to be next to you. See what I mean?

Ngotsara chepay sik yin. Dey, sang du kyi derpa. There is a commentary to Guhyasamaja called drunsel.

Drunsel. The clear light, which could be the same book. We don't know.

SEMS LA'I DNGOS PO THA DA'I PA GNAS PA YOD DAM ZHES NA SEMS LA'I DNGOS PO THA DA'I PA GNAS PA YOD DAM ZHES NA Is there any entity which exists separate from the mind itself? CHOS MED CHE BYA BA GSUM STE If you reply, there is not. DNGOS PO RNAMS KYI DNGOS YIN MED PO They claim that that is emptiness.

Okay? Cool? Thinking about nothing is emptiness.

All right? Cool? Anyway.

All right. Yeah, let's stop there. Okay?

My wife's gonna jump on my head. Stopped here. What's the date?

[Speaker 2]
Twenty seconds.

[Speaker 1]
Anyway, there are different people are trying to say that Chandrakirti... The question is... The question started from the question, was Chandrakirti a direct disciple of Nagarjuna?

[Speaker 3]
Because...

[Speaker 1]
They're hundreds of years apart. Sorry. I've shown you my belly button.

They were hundreds of years apart, so could they have been direct disciple? You know? And then people are criticizing Chandrakirti.

Okay? Which is weird. You don't see that often.

You know? I mean, it must be early, early Tibetans. See what I mean?

It's interesting that Chandrakirti did not reach China. So, you know, Shensang went to China. Shensang went to India in the days that Chandrakirti was rising.

And apparently, Shensang didn't hear Chandrakirti or hear his teaching. And then came back to China and introduced Middle Way to China and didn't know Chandrakirti. So, Chandrakirti is underrepresented in Chinese Buddhist literature.

Cool. Alright. Oh, that's a good point.

500, 501, and 502 just to make you suffer.

[Speaker 3]
Thank you very much.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you. We're getting there. Okay.

We're taking a 15 minute break. Then we're doing something new. We're seeing how the database is constructed.

You've seen the use of it today. It's... It's a very, very, very precious tool that no translator has ever had in history.

We can search all the Buddhist literature in four seconds or something. You know. And I grew up in temple turning pages looking for quotations.

And it would take three or four days to find one. Now you can do it in less than ten seconds. But...

But... But... AI...

In fact, we had a long course about AI in Kyoto. AI is dependent on the data set. If the data set is corrupt, the AI can only make stupid decisions.

You see what I mean? So, we're going to talk about how to build a highly accurate data set. We're going to talk about protecting the accuracy of our data set.

Because if you allow inaccurate data into the set, the AI can only come to false conclusions. Because the data is bad. What did he say?

In the programming business they say, garbage in, garbage out. Okay. See you in 15 minutes.

So, back at 45, Geshe Michael? Right? Yeah.

Okay.

[Speaker 3]
Alright, alright.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, let's say... Yeah, 6.45. I'm sorry. Okay.

And if you live in the center of the universe, you get Thai food. Yay. Is she going to go?

Alright. See you guys back here. Thank you, Geshe Michael.

Thank you, everybody. You're welcome. Thank you.

It's interesting that they were talking about Nagarjuna, right?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
That was interesting.

[Speaker 3]
You first.