Бетси Грир — Книга 2: Интерлюдия о пустоте, занятие 71

[Speaker 1]
Hello beautiful people, good morning. Friends, family, mixed nuts, happy Saturday. Looks like we've got Geshe Michael Roach here.

Hi Geshe Michael. We've got class. Good morning, how's it going?

Yeah, I got an idea about your email. Okay. Just so you know, and don't blame it on me later.

Paula, are you standing by with your quiz? Standing by. All right.

Yay, quiz time. Welcome everybody to the next installment of the exciting opus of Jade of Jade called Interlude on Emptiness. As per usual, I tried to make it easy.

As per usual, I might not have met my goal. So we're at the point of the text where KJJ is talking about the books that Arya Nagarjuna has written. And remember that our topic is what do we take as literal and what do we take as figurative of his teachings.

And so first he's been going through texts and we learned that he's quite a prolific author on a number of different topics. But what does KJJ say was his special insight? And then what tools did Arya, excuse me, let me get an insertion of fluid.

What tools did Arya Nagarjuna use to employ that insight? It's very, very quiet. I'll take a guess, but I don't know.

Is that he is, does he have a special insight in knowing what was literal and what was figurative for being able to determine? And then what is a particular import with regard to knowing like which teachings of the Buddha is it particularly important for us to know when he was being literal and when he was being figurative? Oh, he was particularly good at knowing that the important teaching was about emptiness.

And we've been talking for years about emptiness as it is accepted by a particular Buddhist school of philosophy. He was really good at the middle way since he invented it. Yay.

Arya Nagarjuna's special insight was around clarifying the path of the middle way. That is conveying the definitive meaning of suchness. Nice.

Now, what tools did Arya Nagarjuna use? Logic. Oh, that's one of them.

What's the other? Logic. Scriptural authority.

Yay, there we go. See, I told you guys, he employed scriptural authority and logical reasoning. He must have just possessed me to get that one.

So now we have to dig into our memory banks and recall what is the subject of Arya Nagarjuna's crushing to a fine dust? It's an extension of a particular line of wisdom. Yes.

And then what is the crushing to a fine dust? What does that relate to? The arguments that others attempt to make.

[Speaker 3]
Your potent proofs for real things.

[Speaker 1]
Right. Refuting other species logic comprised of imaginary proofs to establish that things truly exist. Okay.

That's what Lindsay said. Yay, Lindsay. So Arya Nagarjuna wrote, Ending All Argument, to refute others' debates about the content of wisdom.

And K.W.J. gave us an example of one such volley from his book. Please give the quote from wisdom that the opponent takes issue with, as well as the opponent's claim of Arya Nagarjuna's failed logic.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, this is about the words and their lack of nature.

[Speaker 1]
That is the opponent's claim. That's true. What is it that the quote from wisdom said?

True that nothing in the universe has nature, then your words are also without nature? Kat says if it's true that nothing has any nature, then your words also have no nature. Not quite, but that's a good guess.

Arya Nagarjuna says the true nature of things does not exist in causes and such. And then the opponent said, if it's the case that the self-nature of all things does not exist at all, your words also are without self-nature, powerless to refute self-nature.

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
I suppose there's no English equivalent to the phrase, toke. That's reasonable. Did I misspell it?

No, we're joking. Reasoning, logic. A particular kind of logic?

[Speaker 2]
No.

[Speaker 1]
It doesn't have to be. Well, it was in the case of Kedrupji's use of the word, so I apologize for that. Okay.

The Tibetan equivalent to something which could exist in reality and hint, Kedrupji made up this word. That just made it infinitely harder. Oh, did I hear it?

[Speaker 2]
Oscar said. If Oscar said something, it's probably right.

[Speaker 1]
That's right. Bonus question. What are the two phrases in Tibetan and English on which that word is based?

Established as existing in reality and functioning thing. Just plain old thing. G'day.

G'day. G'day. City of smelly ghosts.

The city of hungry ghosts. Right. Illusory spirit or spirit city.

Thank you. So when they translate as the city of Gandharvas, it has nothing to do with celestial musicians. No, but I think it's probably like the water flow.

Remember the waterfall? Chumbap? Yeah, Chumbap.

I think it's more like that. It often comes together with Chumbap. Okay.

Yeah. Cool. Thank you.

The word is saying is that the original Sanskrit of city of the hungry ghosts, the Sanskrit for hungry ghosts is also Gandharva, which means, can also mean celestial musicians, which is weird. Yeah. Translation.

Somebody's grumbling. So would you like to read, Venerable Utpala? Sure.

Yeah, and it's not, the sentence doesn't really end. It keeps going, but we just broke it up first. Yeah.

Sorry. Okay. That wakes everybody up.

I'm sorry. Rangshin may not have no nature. Yeah.

If you want to get, you know, delicate here. What's the dedag mean in the first line, at the end of the first line? It'll change your translation slightly.

Many of these sutras? Yeah, you see, it's the object of Sumba. Many of these sutras.

No, it's those three, right, Ken? Yeah. Yeah.

So, you know. I'm sorry, I didn't catch what the distinction is. If there's no starting, staying, and stopping, then what about the fact that sutras talked about them many times?

That's the thing. You got to say them. You see what I mean?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
All the sutras talk about starting, staying, and stopping. So if they didn't exist, why do the sutras talk about them? You got to get that them in there.

You got to get that dedag in there. Okay. That's all.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, so now that first line and a half becomes the goa.

The contradiction? The argument? The thing being argued?

See, that's their argument, okay? Making this kind of argument. What kind of argument?

If there's no starting, staying, and stopping. Starting, staying, and stopping, with any nature. Why does every sutra talk about starting, staying, and stopping?

That's the other guy's argument. So goa here means, refers to that first line and a half. And then after the la is our answer.

Yeah. Yeah. Those dole sumpas, what's that mean?

Those... Those teachings. Yeah, those statements from sutras specifically about...

Sorry. They were mayin, okay? At the end of the third line.

They were not talking about starting, staying, and stopping, which existed rang shing gi. From its own side, okay? They were...

Did the sutras talk about starting, staying, and stopping?

[Speaker 3]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Did they talk about it as starting, and staying, and stopping from its own side? No, that's all. In fact, the fourth line clarifies what they was talking about.

Just honey.

[Speaker 3]
Merely labels.

[Speaker 1]
Just as labels. Similar to the... And?

And. Everything else? Is there starting?

Yes. Is there staying? Yes.

Is there stopping? Yes. But only similar to a pen.

Not from its own side. That's all. So the other guy said, Look, I'm just talking about what the sutras talk about.

We say, No, the sutras talked about it, but the sutras didn't say it came from its own side. You're talking about starting, staying, and stopping. It comes from the other side.

And not from your seeds, okay? Okay, cool. All right.

And then, now the sentence doesn't end. This first paragraph is only the first half of the sentence. And it says, Somebody wanted to make this point.

And then the next three lines are describing who made this point. Okay. Who's going to read, Upala?

I can't see pictures. So would someone online quickly volunteer? Like Venerable Chinzun, maybe?

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
That's the way my teacher used to volunteer. I take after the best.

[Speaker 3]
Ming Tsam. Ming Tsam. The thing is covering it.

Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, good, nice. I don't get a chance very often to draw your attention to a completely new word after eight years. But here's one.

Say, Miki karne. Yeah, Miki karne is a very unusual idiom that means to place special emphasis on something. Okay, and that you can't tell from the pieces.

Miki means to visualize. Karne means to set aside. And Miki karne means to draw special attention to something.

It's a very unusual phrase. So they were drawing special attention to how kye gakwa sopa. What does it mean?

Starting, stopping, etc. Staying is the etc?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, staying, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
He got tired of saying starting, staying, and stopping. So he says, start, stop, etc. He wants to place special attention on the fact that it is Stopped.

Ming Tsam. Yeah. Ming Tsam.

Name only. Yeah, it only exists in words. It only exists in, and by the way, word here means a picture coming out of a mental seed.

It's essential to understand that. Okay, when you say things exist in name only, the word name refers to a mental picture. It does not refer to a sound or a word.

It doesn't mean that. It means pictures of pens coming out of your seeds. So when you say things are name only, what you're saying is they're picture only.

Okay. And people got confused about that for hundreds of years. Okay.

Yeah, so does it work that things start and stop?

[Speaker 3]
Apparently.

[Speaker 1]
But only in name. Meaning only because I have pictures for it to do so. If you didn't have pictures, they would not start and stop.

All right, cool. And there's a book that Nagarjuna wrote, that Miki Karne, that fact. That placed emphasis on that fact.

Yeah, the whole book focused on that fact. The whole book focuses on that fact. I don't happen to know which book he's talking about right now.

I'm sure Venerable Utpala does. Or Manipa maybe. No.

No, they must have been... They've been going through the six great books of Nagarjuna. And whatever's the last one they mentioned, that's the one that has this topic.

The 70 verses on emptiness. I think it was the 70 verses. Dong ni dun chupa.

Say, dong ni dun chupa. 70 verses on emptiness. We have not translated it yet.

It's waiting for Uncle Nick to have time. But we will translate it. He's going to translate all six.

He's halfway through the second one. His daughter will be a grandmother. Who's going to read this one, Venerable Utpala?

Venerable Jigme, are you available? Kind of. Kind of?

Yeah, kind of. Um. yang tar dzin pangpamit de kun na ni ji tawa shindu dokpa gupe tsultso war dunpa yin te Nice.

shung shen ni ni Yeah, the other two major texts. What were the other two? I have a footnote here.

Oh, 60 verses on reasoning and The String of Precious Stones. Okay, both of which Nick is working on. shung shen ni ni By the way, this whole section is going through the six great books of Nagarjuna.

He wrote how many total?

[Speaker 3]
130 or something.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. But the six are most famous. And there's a disagreement about which are the six.

So shung shen ni. These other two of the six. yu me kyi tar tawa'i mam There's a path or there's a way of thinking.

When you see path here, path, think of a way of thinking. Path that says, that falls into either extreme. Things do exist or things don't exist.

What's the extreme of exist? Don't come from their own side. A pen exists and it's not coming from me.

What's me? If it didn't come from me, it couldn't exist. If it didn't come from me, it couldn't exist.

Those are the two extremes. So they imagine spiritual path like that. Either everything's real or it doesn't exist.

Either everything's real the way I always thought it was, or it doesn't exist. Both are wrong. But they base their whole life and their whole spiritual practice on that.

And they will, tam je khyenpa tok nyupa They will be able to, what? Achieve the state of omniscience. They will be able to achieve the state of omniscience.

So that means, ta chi mu. What did you say? Ta chi mu means much less.

Ta chi mu means much less. What it's gonna say is they can't even get out of the wheel of life, much less reach Buddhahood.

[Speaker 3]
Achieve omniscience.

[Speaker 1]
That viewpoint's not enough to get to nirvana, much less Buddhahood. So ta chi mu means much less. So we expect, by anticipatory translation, that the next word is going to be something about nirvana.

Because so far it says, much less rich buddhahood. Which is less than anything. As a translator you can make your life so much easier.

You can translate 20 pages a day, if you guess what's coming next. korwa le duwa yang mi nu. What's that mean?

It's not possible to even become free of the cycle of suffering. Good. Or reach nirvana.

korwa le duwa dun la. What's that mean? If you want to become free from the cycle of suffering...

You've got to catch that yang. If you wish to free yourself even from the cycle of suffering... Yeah, yeah, it's even.

And you could make it stronger. Even if all you want is to reach nirvana. Even if all you want is not to go through hernia surgeries and stuff.

Forget buddhahood. Even if all you want is to get out of suffering... tar dzin pangpay.

You've got to tar dzin pang. You've got to stop seeing things in extremes. Either it exists the way it seems, or it doesn't exist at all.

You've got to give up these two extremes. Even if you just want to reach nirvana. And when you do that, yul de kon ne nyi jeetaw shing du toppa.

You realize suchness just as it is. And that's correct in the translation. And in Pabongka Rinpoche, tsultrim pa yin te means these other two books, that's mainly what they are focusing on.

He's going through the six books of Arya Nagarjuna, and he's explaining why did Nagarjuna write another book. Why didn't he stop at one? Why didn't he write Wisdom and just stop?

And he says, well, there's a different emphasis of each of these other five books. And these two are saying that you can't even get to nirvana if you don't understand the pen. Forget buddhahood.

That's all. Yay. Okay, back to work.

I don't know when I get to this point. That wasn't work. When I get to this point in the class, I want to sit and eat a cinnamon roll and listen to Juan's news.

You have to wait a little while longer. I'm trying to control myself. Let's do it up here, I guess.

Okay, I think, where are we? No?

[Speaker 3]
One second.

[Speaker 1]
222. Really? No, hold on.

I got the wrong year. Okay. Okay.

Okay. There we go. Okay.

My find isn't working in word that's really obnoxious. Okay. I, I don't know where you.

Yeah, hold on just a second. My find wasn't working, so I have to scroll. Oh, I checked here.

We got to go back up. Okay, so we just did 436. Okay.

All right. Okay, here. We just did that one.

Okay, good. So who's going to read for 37 venerable father. Rebecca, did you stay up late.

Apparently not. Um, Anna. Anna, would you like to read these.

Thank you. Okay.

[Speaker 3]
Good. Sipa. Sipa.

Sipa.

[Speaker 1]
Nice. Okay, cool. Thank you Anna-Emi.

The number two in the, the number two is I've been numbering the six great books of Arya Nagarjuna as we go through. Okay, so we've reached the second one, which is what's Rigpa Dukchupa. The 60 Verses on Reason.

Yeah, the 60 Verses on Reason, which, which Nick already translated and it took about seven years or something, and the book is finished. And it's a good piece of work, I have to say. So, as we continue on with the Mixed Nuts through the next hundred years, we will build up a database of books that we've already translated.

So we can easily go to them and we don't have to do all that work again. So this, this lines have already been translated by Nick in his book. And here it is.

Okay. So Geshe Michael, just as a question, would I just copy that translation then? Yeah, I would like to maintain a consistency between the translators.

So like if, if Word has already translated something from the Mind Only School, and then that comes in an Abhidharma book or something, I'd like to use Word's translation in the Abhidharma book, and then we get this consistency between the books.

[Speaker 3]
Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
Unless we discover that it's wrong, because of the new book, but it's not. Okay. In this case, when we look at things as if they existed, we can never reach liberation.

When we look at them as if they didn't exist, we can never escape this cycle of pain. That's to support his assertion at the beginning of class that if you think things exist or don't exist, you can't even reach nirvana, much less buddhism. So he's quoting Nagarjuna to say the same thing.

Geshe Michael, can I ask a question about that translation? I don't see we can never escape. Sipa di le.

It's the le, actually. It's the le. Get out of.

It's from. It's ablative. But it means escape from the cycle.

Okay, thank you. We can never from. That's all it says.

That's Nagarjuna. Okay, who's going to read the next one, Venerable Upala? I have a lot of victims here.

I've got about 20 victims here. Tina Riedman, would you like to read, please?

[Speaker 3]
Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
That's a hard one. The next one is nyu. Nyu dang nyu me.

[Speaker 3]
Yong shepa. Shepe. Bak ni chenpo.

[Speaker 1]
Dak ni chenpo nampa grol. Great, thank you. Okay, poo.

Yer mek yi tan dzin, Venerable Upala. The extremes of existence and non-existence, or grasping to the extremes of existence and non-existence. If you believe that things exist or you believe that things don't exist, same problem.

Sipa le mi dro. There can be no freedom from the cycle of pain. Yeah, good.

Which means if you think they exist from their own side, or you think if they don't exist from their own side, they don't exist at all, if you go to either extreme, you cannot get free. And then he says, what's the solution? And here's Nick's translation.

Great beings achieve liberation by understanding fully things and the absence of things. So they understand why things do not come from... they understand why the pain is coming from them, and they understand that there's no other pain.

Then they can reach nirvana. Okay, Venerable Bhava, who's going to read four, three, nine? Laia?

Laia. Laia, can you read, please? Can you unmute your microphone?

Anybody, please. She's working on it. Laia.

Oh, there she is.

[Speaker 3]
Thank you. Ah. Zen.

[Speaker 1]
She. Venerable Upala, you got the playing.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
She.

[Speaker 3]
Now, she. Nyong. It's a hard one.

Nyong ho. Nyong ho. Kong.

[Speaker 1]
Korwa. Korwa.

[Speaker 3]
De.

[Speaker 1]
Dang. Nyong. Dang.

Nyong. Mae. Mae, great.

Oh, this is a hard one. M-Y turns into N. N.

So, nyen nyen ling den pa. N.

[Speaker 3]
This is too difficult. Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Nyen nyen.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah. Nen nyen.

[Speaker 1]
GAL TE DGOS PA It turns into kind of a D. GAL TE GAL PA GAL PA GZUNG ZHING Yay!

[Speaker 3]
Okay, cool, yay!

[Speaker 1]
Thank you! Now, the verse says these great beings understand things and the absence of things. And then our author wants to interpret those in a special way, okay?

He wants to interpret things as something unusual, and he wants to interpret the absence of things as something unusual. So he wants to interpret things as korwa. The cycle of suffering.

Sansara, yeah. He wants to say, when Nagarjuna, in this verse, when Nagarjuna says things, he means pain things. He means sansara, okay?

And then when he says the absence of things, if you wanted to anticipate the transition, what would that be? The transcendence of suffering. Yeah, if things means pain, then no thing would mean escaping pain, okay?

So that's how our author reads it. That's how K. J.

J. reads it. Yeah, ngopo, things, refers to korwa, sansara.

And the absence of things refers to nyang nyen len depa, going beyond all grief, which is the ancient translation for nirvana. It should have been called blowout. No, nirvana, they made up a word beyond pain or something like that, so they made up a new word.

It does not relate to the Sanskrit etymology, okay? Nirvana means to blow out a candle or something like that, okay? Ventilation comes from that, okay?

Nihilism comes from that, nirvana. Okay, anyway, nyang nyen len depa nyi, those two. If you dekona nyi yong su she...

If you perfectly understand the fundamental nature of those two... Yeah, if you understand... Yeah, if you understand the emptiness of sansara and nirvana, okay?

Then those dag nyi chenpo, what's the Sanskrit? $4.50 in this room.

[Speaker 3]
Mahatma.

[Speaker 1]
Not you, Lord. I'm not giving any money. Okay, anyway, nobody gets the money.

Mahatma, like Mahatma Gandhi, okay? That very common word, it means great being, great person, great. Maha means big, like magnificent, came from that.

And atman came into atom, actually. Okay, dag nyi chenpo. And now, equivalent sentence.

They are... This author says, if you want to know what's a real Mahatma, it's a bhagpa. Someone who has seen emptiness is a real great being, okay?

And if you are that kind of person, you will korwa le drul. You will become free from the cycle of suffering. Yeah, and that's what the first half of Nagarjuna's verses say, okay?

Up here, great beings achieve liberation. That's Mahatma, okay? All right, good translation, Nick.

Oh, yay! Who's going to read the next one, Upala? I'm sorry, I'm poking around.

Roxanna, could you please read?

[Speaker 3]
First.

[Speaker 1]
de yang sipa korwa rang shing kyi kyewa mepar yong su shepa ye she kyi trebuy tse ngokpa ngun tu chepa la nyang de toppa she shak gi Good. Nice, yeah. We have to understand that korwa is rang shing kyi kyewa mepar.

That cyclic existence does not come into existence inherently. Yeah, sansara doesn't come from its own side. Sansara is a pen.

Sansara is a pen, okay? This life is a pen, okay? rang shing kyi kyewa mepar.

You have to yong su shepa that. By the way, yong su shepa is a code word in Abhidharma. That means you have to totally understand that, and it often implies emptiness understanding, which in Abhidharma would be called...

Dakme? Selflessness? Selflessness.

They don't have the word emptiness normally, okay? So that kind of wisdom would see that things don't start from their own side, and when it reaches the degu... The result.

Yeah, when it gets to the end of spiritual practice, it would gokpa ngun du che. It would attain cessation? Yeah, ngun du che means make it happen, or manifest it.

Yeah. Gokpa is a difficult word because it's weird to think of you would achieve the ending. You would achieve the no longer existing, okay?

And different schools have different ideas of what that means. In Abhidharma, you would disappear, okay? All right.

Then what's the famous joke that the other schools ask the Abhidharma guys?

[Speaker 3]
Who are all these Arhats?

[Speaker 1]
Hey dude, where's the Arhat? Okay. Ngun du che pala.

And we call that Nirvana, okay? Or Arhat ship, okay? They have reached Nirvana.

Shey shak. This shak is the past tense of words. I'll give you 50 bucks.

Joke. Joke. Hey, you got it.

50 bucks. Check in with my accountant. One of my accountants.

I got many. What's the opposite of accountant? I never met.

Anyway. Miss County? We get out of here.

Who's next? Let's say Prema or Susan. Whichever name you prefer.

Hello. Hello. Hello.

Nyung mongos. Nyung mong. Nyung mong.

That's hard. Yes. Zat par.

Zay pa. Zay pa. Zay pa.

Dong pong. Pong pong. Pong pong.

Chima. Chima. Me .

. . Me see ya.

Mi kye way. Mi ki way. Gong na.

Jo da. Jo da. Gong pa.

Gong pa, right. Gong pa. Ning gong.

mung du mung du ba che pa che pa dang pong pong pong dang dang mong nyong mong nyong mong um sorry I didn't remember that's okay sepa sepa gong yong mi teng mi teng si chi chi gong chi gong chi Thank you.

[Speaker 3]
Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. If it weren't that, you have to understand emptiness and then you get to nirvana or something like that. If that's not the case, then you might think that you have to sepa, finish off, you have to finish off nyomong.

Your negative emotions. Which exist rang gi tsen gyi drubpa. By definition.

Yeah, or if you want to go back to the pen from their own son, okay, they are not coming from you, they exist from their own side, like a pen. Okay, if you believe they were produced by something else, then your seeds, okay, if you believe you could stop, by the way, can you destroy a pen that comes from its own side? No, there's nothing there.

No, it doesn't exist. Okay, so he says, if suppose you think you could destroy negative emotions that come from their own side, that's useless. There's no such thing.

That's like destroying a pizza that I could get in a room. Okay, okay. And what happens if you destroy your negative emotions?

Then, bumpo mikye. Some future body and mind. Yeah, good.

Chima here means later. A later sansaric body and mind, you know, hernia body and mind that gets upset and stuff like that. Mikye.

Okay, if you could... Is it true that if you stop your negative emotions, you can stop your suffering body and mind? Yes or no?

Is it true? If you stopped your negative emotions, could you stop your suffering body and mind?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
But not if they came from their own side. Okay. Anyway, joke not.

If you say you could, gopa ngun du che, then you could, if you say you could reach that kind of end of suffering, and if you think you could stop your pumbos, your suffering body and mind, and your negativities, mi te. You're wrong. And that was the purpose of Arya Nagarjuna's book.

That's all he's saying. He was just trying to get people to understand that if you're working on stopping a sansara that's not coming from you, you're going to be working for a long time. Okay?

And that applies to the situation in your country, for example. Okay? If you think you're going to stop something on the outside, you can do that forever, and you won't.

It's coming from you. You have to stop it at its source.

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
All right. Next. Venerable Upala, who's next?

By the way, in 12 minutes we will stop. Venerable Upala will lead a 15-minute discussion of how on earth can you use this in your real life? Okay, and after that we'll have an amazing news show, and after that we'll have a cinnamon roll eating contest.

Okay. We have lots of helpers from other countries today. Oh, that's good.

Let's see. Olga, would you like to read? Oh, you're interpreting.

Olga in India, would you like to read?

[Speaker 3]
Oh, no.

[Speaker 1]
No, she says no. It's not wrong in the head. Sometimes we have to do things we don't like.

If you're from India, you're going to go in there. Okay, Ping Xiao, you laughed particularly hard at that joke, so would you like to read, please? Ping Xiao?

Yes, you gasping in recognition of your name. Yes, would you like to read, please? Chepa Dey Rupa Ya La Rute Sorry Rupi Yen La Rupi Yen La Tu Tu Tu Tsu Tsu Tsu La Ma La Tsu So, see?

Beautiful. It wasn't so hard. So we are explaining, BYED PA, then go backwards.

We are explaining the meaning of these lines as referring to THEG MEN GYI NYAMS PAS. What's that mean? THEG MEN, HIN NA YANG NA.

The transcendence of suffering of the lower vehicle. Yeah, HIN NA, basically a lower nirvana. We are interpreting them that way.

And then based on that, we are interpreting the rest of the verse. We are assuming they're talking about a HIN NA YANG NA nirvana and then we interpret the rest of the verse, which means you have to understand something to stop your pain, to get out of pain. Now, for a hundred bucks, everybody woke up.

Except for... Except for... But if Nick answers, he gets double.

Why is it especially relevant to interpret a verse from the 60 verses as referring to a lower nirvana? As referring to a lower nirvana? Because he wrote the book specifically to show the lower school that the lower, that their idea of a lower nirvana isn't correct and that they actually do accept the idea of a higher nirvana.

Okay, I'll give you 200. Yeah, he wrote, as we said, he wrote six great books on emptiness. Each one had a different goal in mind.

The 60 verses... By the way, the reason we chose the 60 verses to do first is that most people ignore it. And so we chose out of the six books, we chose that one to translate first because many people ignore it.

And what it was was a very interesting statement in 60 verses that says, you know, you are lower way people. You are Abhidharma followers. You are not a middle way followers.

Guess what? When Buddha taught you Abhidharma, he was teaching you highest emptiness. You didn't get it.

Got it? Which is a very revolutionary idea, that did he teach emptiness? Whole emptiness, highest emptiness to the lower way.

And Nagarjuna says, of course he did. They just couldn't hear it. They just couldn't hear it.

So now he says, so is it weird when he wants to interpret, is it weird when Ketubji wants to interpret the lines of the 60 verses as referring to a lower nirvana? No, because that whole book was aimed at lower school people. That whole book was meant to tell lower school people, Buddha taught you emptiness, you just didn't hear it.

In the Abhidharma, he taught emptiness, you just didn't hear it. You see what I mean? Got it?

So is it weird that we interpret it by a lower nirvana? No, if it comes from the 60 verses, we should interpret it that way. Okay?

All right, now we're moving on to a higher one. Who's going to read, Utpala? Utpala, would you like to read, please?

Yes, thank you. Rinchen, Trangwale, Nyongtoy, Drupchele, Drapayi, Shepe, Dapayinle, Dinlindla, Denyongdusongwale, Nyelekkelam, Gompe, Nyerongdu Yoro, Lovely, thank you.

[Speaker 3]
Yay!

[Speaker 1]
Okay, Utpala, what's Rinchen tell us? The String of Precious Jewels. Yeah, which you can say Ratnamala or Ratnavali.

Okay, the tenure says Ratnavali, which is the same. That book by Arya Nagarjuna, which is a higher school, and that's the one that Nick's working on right now. It's probably his most famous, the most famous of this part.

Muntur Drupche, if you want to achieve higher births, if you're interested in achieving higher births, you have to have depa. You have to have yi che depa, right? Faith based on trust?

Yeah, which is kind of a low-level faith. Okay, why is it true that, why is karma and its consequences true? My teacher said so.

Okay, so this is called yi che depa. Okay, it means a faith where you just trust your teacher, which could either be the highest or the lowest. Okay, Muntur Drupche.

So it's an understanding and a faith in karma, in the laws of karma that allows you to reach higher birth. Okay, depa yin la. What comes before, so if that Lundu Song, Utpala, if that faith, Lundu Song.

If that faith comes first. Yeah, if you get that kind of faith first, and it doesn't mean faith in your teacher. It means faith in karma.

Okay, if you get that kind of faith, then you can gom the lam. Meditate on the path. To nge lekpa.

Definite good. Yeah, definite good is a code word for two different things. Nirvana and Buddhahood.

Nirvana and Buddhahood. So when you see the word definite good, you always have to understand it refers to two things, nirvana and Buddhahood. Okay, nge lekpa lam.

If you first have faith, then you are nu. Then you're suitable. A worthy vessel.

Oh, I mean, sorry, a vessel. Yeah, you are a worthy vessel. They say you don't put a myrta.

What's a myrta? You don't put the nectar of deathlessness in a dirty coffee cup. Like you go get a golden vase with jewels on it, and you put a myrta in that.

Okay, so you are worthy. Someone can pour the teachings on emptiness in you as a vessel, if you first have that faith in karma. Then you're a gold vessel.

And then they can pour the higher teachings into you. But if you don't have that understanding of karma, they say, then you're like a chamber pot. You're like a poo-poo.

Chamber pot means in the old days before toilets. You kept a pot in your room and you dumped it out the window every day. Okay?

All right. We got time for one more, Udpala. You want to wrap up this one?

You want to read this last one real fast? Okay. DE YANG BDAG DANG BDAG GIS DBANG NYID DON DGAM PAR MED PA'I THONG PA NYID RTOGS PA'I SHES RAB LA BRTEN NAS DBANG PO DON MED DU SHES PA BSGOM PAR RJES PA'I SNGAR RDZIN ZAS PAR GYUR BA DANG Yeah, and they're just describing the process of nirvana, okay, as opposed to Buddhahood, okay?

So, you got to understand there's no BDAG and there's no BDAG GYI BA. There's no me in mind. There's no me in mind.

Ultimately, ultimately means not coming from your seats, like a pen that doesn't come from you. The absence of that is called DONG PA NYID. Emptiness.

And if you have SHES RAB to understand that... If you have wisdom which realizes that... You will understand that your PUM BOS are BDEN MED.

That your body and mind lacks... it doesn't come from its own side. Yeah, meaning your body is like the pen and your mind is like the pen, okay?

BDEN MED DU SHES PA BSGOM BSGOM BSGOM This is not BSGOM. This is BSGOM BSGOM. And you become accustomed to that idea.

Yeah, if you put a BS on it, like so many people do, it means to meditate. If you don't put BS on it, it means get used to it. So, BSGOM.

If you get used to it, then you can SRED PA YOD NGON DZIN. You can get rid of your grasping to me. Yeah, as not coming from your seats.

You always have to... Is it wrong to believe you are me? No, it's not wrong.

You'd probably rather be you than me. So, that's okay. You have hair, so you're you and not me.

It's not wrong to want to be you. But to want to be a self-existing you is a problem. All right, we're going to stop there and I'm going to disappear.

And Venerable Utpala, good luck. Let everybody talk. What should I do for my homework next time Geshe-la?

Oh yeah, hang on. Let me see here. I got something.

Let me see if there's anything particularly interesting. Can you finish the last three numbers here? 45, 46, 47?

Okie doke. Then we actually go to a whole new subject, which is what I really meant. Ooh.

We get into it. Yeah, so we finished the mind-only school. We struggled through that for years.

We hit the middle school. We're about to finish that. And then we're going to go into what the heck did you really need?

Okay, I'm disappearing. Bye! Thank you, Geshe Michael.

Oh, let me stop sharing here. Okay, all right. Bye.

I'm going to unplug myself. Yeah, okay. Oh, so this was kind of fun, right?

What keeps us from reaching freedom and what gets us there. Gosh, how can we use that in our real life? Something I think that's fun that Geshe Michael once mentioned to me about the 60 verses that just came up was how this idea that Buddha was always teaching emptiness to his students and then these guys just didn't get it and they interpreted it a different way.

And Arya Nagarjuna went out of his way to write a whole book showing them that indeed they've been learning it that way the whole time. And I try to go through my life, what's practical about that, realizing that I try to go through my life with the openness that maybe there's certain messages that people have been trying to get through to me for a long time and I just didn't get it. And I just thought that's a fun one that we can all try to practice every now and then because it just came up.

I can't remember which of the fundamental courses it was but even just questioning whether what we see is the way things really are puts a crack in the foundation of the cycle of suffering. Even just wondering if our understanding is correct or not. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And maybe people have been teaching me the correct understanding of emptiness for a long time. It just finally started to mean something to me after I literally had to get hit in the head until it started meaning something to me. Yay!

One approach. It looks like Mr. Haggerty has something to share. You can tell by the pink sweatshirt.

I can tell by the pink sweatshirt.

[Speaker 2]
It is my spring shirt. I was thinking about habituation a lot and kind of getting ourselves used to the idea of thinking about emptiness kind of like on a constant basis and on, what day was it, two days ago?

[Speaker 1]
I had like an allergic reaction and got taken away by an ambulance. I actually had to go to the hospital. And at that moment, I wasn't like, where does this come from?

I was just hoping I would not die, actually. And so it made me think about, this is like 1997, probably, in class, and Geshe-la was just sort of giving out ideas. How do you make these things happen in your life?

And there was like a list. And coming to classes to Mixed Nuts was one of them. But the main one, I think, was putting yourself around a teacher, I think, and just figuring out some way how to plop yourself next to them, however that works.

I've watched a lot of students over time do that. Figuring out, you know, moving to Rimrock or how I'm going to be in charge of Mixed Nuts, all sorts of unique ways. And so there's this cool thing, I think, there isn't this thing about being around a teacher that just watching them, I think, affects you through this sort of osmosis process.

That, in conjunction with coming to class, studying, meditating, doing yoga, all of those things. And so I think making a lifelong habit of that habituation helps us.

[Speaker 2]
Because in that moment when I was being taken away, the guy goes, it was so funny, my heartbeat was like almost 200, actually. I was pretty close to cardiac arrest, actually. And he's like, do you know how to breathe?

[Speaker 1]
I was like, look, this one I know. I'm good. And you are alone at that moment.

I remember thinking I just wanted somebody to hold my hand. But the only way, I think, to be ready for that is, and I told Geshe-la this, my life, I just felt good. What I've decided to do with my life, I have zero regret at all.

But that comes from habituating myself to these ideas, to putting myself around a teacher, to helping build Diamond Mountain, to having Dharma friends. I love the Mixed Nuts class, really. So I super encourage everyone to keep coming, even when it's painful or you're tired.

[Speaker 3]
There's many classes I just turned it on and laid down in my bed.

[Speaker 1]
There's nothing like it. I told Geshe-la this, Dharma really, the teaching saved my life many years ago, completely. And so I feel really grateful for my life, I think.

I think it's just the habituation part. Just figure out ways to plop yourself next to these teachings or take a Tibetan class with Word or, Hey Utpala, can you explain to me more about this book I don't get? Or, Hey Nick, how can I help?

Any of those things. So that's kind of the main takeaway I had from that Rinchen, that whole jewel necklace that we're going to put around ourselves, basically, was to just sort of habituate ourselves to the idea.

[Speaker 2]
So that's it.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you, Rob. I'm glad that your heart rate came down and that you appear to be quite healthy now. It was weird.

It was like that, you know, it was a quick thing. What are you allergic to, so I can make sure to never allow it in your presence? Some weird penicillin, I guess, and painkiller at the same time.

Yeah. Alrighty then. Thank you.

Thank you. Someone had their hand raised earlier, but I didn't see your name. If you still want to speak, you can please speak.

Or there's someone sitting in Rimrock.

[Speaker 3]
Capital of the world. Capital of the world. I just wanted to share the part about the body.

[Speaker 1]
A lot of people I see in my world lately with burnout, adrenal fatigue, and just like I had these firework moments of even me, them coming to see me to help them, I was looking at it in the wrong way. So I'm really going to apply seeing that there is no self-existing body with adrenal fatigue, with burnout.

[Speaker 3]
And so I'm really excited just to continue taking all these teachings and being in this frequency and really sharing and spreading it and seeing it in the right way so that hopefully we can find solutions together the right way.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, thank you. And with something like fatigue, chronic fatigue like that, or chronic pain, it's very challenging, right, to have that experience and also have the thought in your mind that this is not self-existent pain, even though it certainly appears that way. Yeah.

Thank you. Becoming habituated to that idea as Rob was talking about.

[Speaker 3]
Hello.

[Speaker 1]
I want to say something about we don't have the seeds to hear the teachings.

[Speaker 3]
Now I count it. I probably have missed five times. Geshe Michael has talked about all these things so many times, but I don't know how many times I actually get it.

It's not that I wasn't paying attention. I probably didn't have the seeds to hear it. So I thought about maybe it's not about how much effort.

It's more about do I have enough serving others in my pocket to be in this teaching. It doesn't matter if I'm in Vietnam or in Turkey or in this room. Some people might think that is the success, but to be honest, for many times, I don't know what this class is talking about.

So I think there is more work in collecting good seeds to receive the wisdom.

[Speaker 1]
It can be laying down in my bedroom in Indonesia. It doesn't matter where, but I think I want to think more about that. So Buddha has taught the emptiness to the lower school when he was alive.

Most people didn't understand. And then Nagarjuna came and taught again.

[Speaker 2]
And then those people didn't understand.

[Speaker 3]
And then Professor Michael and Nick translated the whole book which was already published and many people didn't understand. And then we have the books we don't purchase or we don't read and we don't go to bed at 10. It's so available.

We don't need to go to one more classroom. We need to work on ourselves. I need to work on what are the seeds to listen and understand and do it myself.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you. Thank you, Chloe. I think we do.

I've heard from not just Geshe Michael but all the teachers that I have is class hours, there's really no highest possible number there. We should go to as many classes as we can to hear the teachings to help plant those ideas in our minds. Where does that wisdom come from?

To reveal to ourselves, right? The truth of how things are. Why things are.

Anyone have a last word? May we all have the direct perception of the true nature of reality. May we all become free of this cycle of suffering.

And may we all serve others to help them become free as well. May our teachers stay forever and ever. Thank you.

Thank you, Geshe Michael for a great class. It looks like we are being joined by the festivities. They're dancing or something.

Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Hello, everyone. How are you doing? Guess where we are?

Not at the beach. The best country in the world. Mexico!

Today we are here all together because as you may have heard, Teresa, Alex Rivas, Alexa, Paola, they are all producing and organizing the very first, in the whole world, the very first Lady Nygma II in Spanish ever happened in this planet. As far as registers appear, we have no other register of Lady Nygma II happening in Spanish in this planet. Here with us are our beautiful students of today.

We want to show you. Many of them have come from far away. Like blocks away.

And this is why I wanted to talk a little bit with you both. So you tell us a little bit of the story. How this program came to pass.

Because they have a very cool story. The producers, the teacher. She's from Argentina, but she moved to Spain.

And she came all the way to Spain to be here with us today. So maybe if you both can tell just shortly what's your story, how this came to happen. Teresa, you, maybe.

[Speaker 1]
So the story is like this. Last year I came to Guadalajara to Geshe-la's teaching retreat. And I gave the Lady Nygma II sequence in that retreat.

And many students came to tell me that they wanted to learn the sequence. And this sequence we teach in YSI. But actually we teach it more like in the Russian audience and the Chinese audience.

And we never did a course like for the Spanish audience.

[Speaker 2]
Which is one of the best audiences.

[Speaker 1]
Well, I'm with the wisdom of equanimity. Remember this is the sequence of the wisdom. What do you mean, well?

Well, that is your view. That's what I mean. Don't push it into me.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, but tell us the story how Alex Rivas invited you and fight for the seed to ripen in this world of you being able to come here.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, so after that retreat and people asking me how they can teach it, I want to tell Alex Okay, we have to do a retreat here. I will come.

[Speaker 3]
You just organize and I take the plane.

[Speaker 2]
The flight. Amazing. Can you tell us a little bit of your experience on your side?

What had to happen? When did you decide I want to do it? And what was the process to make it happen?

Yeah, well, I saw that people were asking better to teach it.

[Speaker 1]
And I'm the distributor of wise eyes and programs in Spanish.

[Speaker 2]
So I started like since two years ago, I think we started like planning like how it will happen.

[Speaker 1]
But then the things were not clear. We didn't. It has never happened.

We didn't know how to do it. Not everybody certified because this is new.

[Speaker 2]
So we have these many, many steps to go through to in order to happen. But I'm very stubborn and that is very helpful. We are friends.

She paid her own flight to come and we are doing like anything we can like Jules from here, from Monasterio, she gave us a place to be here.

[Speaker 1]
Like everyone is putting their seat, putting their effort in order to make this happen because this is the first time we're so grateful.

[Speaker 2]
And yeah, it's so strange to give it in Spanish. Yeah, I think personally, I think there is a very cool aspect of listening a teacher speaking their mother tongue. So for me, that was one of the actually for me, it was funny because I was planning to come to Mexico anyways.

I already had my plan to come and then all of a sudden I hear because Julie, the owner of Monasterio, the place where we are at, she just text me, hey, we're having this program. Can you advertise? And I was like, wow, I'm going to be there.

So I want to take it and listen a teacher teaching in their mother tongue. I think it has something very special. So I feel very fortunate to be here with you learning this class.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you can't you cannot see, but Juan under these beautiful clothes, he has his joggy pants.

[Speaker 3]
Well, because he just did yoga.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, we did yoga in the morning, but then I say I have to go to translation class. Excuse me, guys. You do you, but I'm going to the translation class.

And then, of course, I invite them to the virtual news. So this is the very first day we will keep you posted on what happens later. I'm going to later make a video to summarize the experience.

Very fun things have already happened and we hope more fun things and cool things and interesting things will keep happening. So we just come say goodbye and then we'll move on to our next segment. We are doing a break.

OK, thanks so much. Next thing we have today is like an announcement of a very cool project that our friend Ina Ibanina and Captain Bill have been How do you say this? Have been being involved?

No, have been involved. Have been involved and we want to share a video with you and then move on to talk to Ina from first hand to see what she has to say about that. So please let's go to the video tech table a.k.a. Gina Rivera. Thank you so much. That's a natural thing.

[Speaker 1]
Do you like being criticized? Especially for something that is dear and important for you?

[Speaker 2]
Excellent.

[Speaker 1]
Excellent.

[Speaker 2]
So now there is no excuse. I can learn to speak English. So we would like to actually spotlight Ina if she's around.

[Speaker 1]
Hi, Flan.

[Speaker 2]
Hello, Ina. Good to see you. We saw each other a few weeks ago.

One week ago. You know, to me it's interesting how time passes when we are doing virtuous things because one week sometimes feels like one year. One year feels like 10 days.

It's very interesting. But we saw recently for the Bhagavad Gita teachings and I'm very happy to have you here to tell us a little bit about this cool project and maybe you can also share a little bit of the results if you have seen people actually using it and how has it going.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you, Juan. Pleasure to be here. So this is the project that was sponsored by Geshe Michael Roach because when the war started the idea was that we want to create some cool project where we could involve people that some of them they were in Ukraine, some of them they became refugees, they didn't have jobs and Ukrainians have no bad qualities but one.

They have a lot of pride. They will not take money if they don't work. So it was a project that gave opportunity for people to work on and I was having this idea to create a modern manual for people to study languages based on the method that I used a long time ago to study English, French and it is based on influence on subconsciousness more or less by a Bulgarian guy his name is Lazanov.

So we used Olya Zolotova and I maybe we can connect her also you can look at her because she is the main manager of the project. She built up the team and she is responsible for for all the stages of the project. Now we have a beautiful manual we have implemented all the ideas of this suggestive method.

Not only that we went even far and secretly people that will be taking this course they will be also getting 10 good deeds. We will do two things on their subconsciousness English first and ethical behavior second and also Geshe Michael allowed us to use some pieces of his texts so in the reading people will find some of Karma of Love or the Diamond Cutter text. So this is the project Olya you can say something on the stage where we are now.

[Speaker 3]
Thank you and hello everyone

[Speaker 2]
happy to be here and Inna has already told everything about our great project and one thing maybe I can add that we kind of proud of it because it really helps and when you asked about the results and during the pilot project we had lots of results and one of them was really outstanding

[Speaker 3]
one of our participants who didn't speak and didn't learn English before she was studying German but in a week or so

[Speaker 1]
she was able to record a small dialogue when she represented herself told a little bit about herself and when Inna showed this short video with this lady to Captain Bill he told that it's impossible that the person who didn't speak English before could say

[Speaker 2]
fair English language phrases to introduce herself and that moment we understood that the theory and the method is really great and we should go far to make our own new manual

[Speaker 3]
and we are waiting for also registering in Ukraine for this manual

[Speaker 2]
wonderful so can you share with us maybe because I'm just curious really how long ago did you start the first classes and how many people have already taken this course or are taking it these days

[Speaker 1]
so during the pilot project we had 72 students and it was old manual during the new manual

[Speaker 2]
we have started with a self-study group without a language trainer and so for now we have 15 people

[Speaker 1]
who are studying it and but of course it takes a lot of motivation and discipline and we are eager to invite as many

[Speaker 2]
people to for studying groups with our language trainer so they will have all the outstanding results they can really have

[Speaker 1]
during these 12 weeks English course

[Speaker 2]
very cool

[Speaker 1]
go ahead

[Speaker 2]
I was just a comment that I find it very interesting that one of the advices to become a peacock warrior is that you help people to learn other languages and I don't know you are doing it so it's so cool but what were you saying

[Speaker 1]
I said that the method is amazing because the original method was like for three months I did it when I was at school I was very lucky to study according to this program that is extremely effective and efficient and in three months after I started my French classes there was a guy from French embassy visiting our school and he could not believe that we studied like for only for a couple months French he was thinking like we studied from like six years old or something and I was like 15 so it's extremely efficient and effective and my dream is to because the manual is amazing it is interesting I was voicing over some of the parts in Russian and all the English is voiced over by native speakers so the idea to develop this project is to we can translate it to other languages maybe somebody is interested in business ideas like for example our idea is to translate it into Chinese and Vietnamese I think there are many people interested in studying English there and also maybe some other languages

[Speaker 2]
yeah yeah yeah it's cool I remember I have this joke with Seiji and Stanley I tell them like if you want friends learn Spanish but if you want money learn Chinese it's just a joke but anyways thank you so much

[Speaker 1]
we can discuss it

[Speaker 2]
we can talk more about it I like this idea that different languages are better for different purposes you may have heard this idea like if you want to talk romantically speak French interesting they say if you want to talk to God speak in Spanish if you want to talk to Jesus speak in English and other things like that it's just fun but maybe there is a reason behind why right anyway thank you so much we'll be excited to hear more about the development of this project soon if you want to share last few words please otherwise we'll see again if everything goes well on Monday

[Speaker 1]
I want to say that the idea of the project is to develop similar businesses so we are not in a position yet to give away somebody the same amount of money that we received this is still the goal because it took a lot of time to develop a nice manual it's a lot of preparation to register it etc but the goal is to make money and to give away thank you

[Speaker 2]
thank you as well best wishes and let's report later how the program develops thank you for your work thank you for helping people thank you for staying and hearing the news and sending my best regards to everyone especially to Rimrock Arizona I hope our friends are there very well and see you later, see you on Monday