Бетси Грир — Книга 2: Интерлюдия о пустоте, занятие 57

[Speaker 1]
All of a sudden I'm in front of hundreds of people, or a hundred.

[Speaker 3]
Nines of people.

[Speaker 1]
Nines, exactly. I don't have time to straighten my tie yet, so bear with me everybody.

[Speaker 3]
Oh sure, now when you put it that way. Hey, I didn't want to be spotlighted.

[Speaker 1]
Whatever, whether you're Windsor or not.

[Speaker 3]
I fold, baby. So much Windsor here.

[Speaker 1]
So it's like being in England, basically. But we're almost there. Everybody get ready.

Get your thinking caps on. It's a tough one today. There she is.

[Speaker 3]
Do you want to join us where we have 15 more seconds of witty repartee?

[Speaker 1]
Oh, it's time. All right, all right, all right, all right. Coming to you live from everywhere in the world, but especially Rimrock, Arizona.

It's Schwentzang's Tower, and here is the man, the myth, the legend himself, Keshe Michael Rimrock. That means I got old. I can't even.

What's next? Any announcements? No, I think we're just happy to have you with some live classes for Schwentzang's Tower.

And today we have a very promising-to-be-difficult class with Utpala. And so focus hard, and I will try as well. That's all I got for today.

Ben, do we have anything else?

[Speaker 3]
That sounds right.

[Speaker 1]
All right. Oh, you want an advertisement here? Yes.

[Speaker 3]
We're hoping.

[Speaker 1]
I got this in, I got this sent to me because I'm a member of the Goodnight Book Club. And Nick, there's an evolution of the name from Goodnight Book Club to the Night Book Club, and now it's the Night Club. When you go to the Night Club, the first thing you get, and Lindsay delivered them, you get Words Golden Key, which is great for if you have trouble sleeping, just open that up.

And then I got this special box with my name on it, and I was hoping it was toffee. But everybody who joins the Goodnight Book Club gets this. Oh, yeah.

It's a new edition of an old classic. If you're interested in Diamond Way, it's called Door to the Diamond Way, and we're actually going to be covering it soon. And you get this free bookmarker, and you get a birthday card or something like that.

[Speaker 3]
It is a meticulously cleaned new edition. That new edition is not just a reprinting. It represents many, many hours of people scrubbing it to the bones for every detail to make it so beautiful for you, and newly referenced and cross-referenced.

It's a magnificent work.

[Speaker 1]
Especially a certain ut, ut, ut, ut, ut.

[Speaker 3]
There she is.

[Speaker 1]
Miss Pala, hit us with your homework. Okay. Hey, no, I won't hit you.

Can you see the quiz?

[Speaker 3]
Yes. Yep.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. This is my better judgment, I admit it. So we're still in the land of mind only.

And we recently came back to a part that we're sort of familiar with. So it feels a little comfortable at the moment, right? We started going over three aspects that the mind only speaks of, right?

The chen wangs, the kun toks, and the yang dru, right? Remember? And one person is nodding their head, yay.

Okay. Okay, so what is the example of a changing thing, chen wang, that K to J gives us? I didn't need to capitalize that, but hey, I was in a mood.

Please also give the Tibetan, do you remember?

[Speaker 3]
It's not unfrequently blue.

[Speaker 1]
That's what I was gonna say, too. It's the wisdom- Or coffee cup. Awesome.

The wisdom of an area after the direct perception of emptiness. Oh, that sounds so much better. Uh-oh, you're jumping ahead, you're jumping ahead.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, sorry.

[Speaker 1]
Too smart. Not everything is direct perception. He said an example is every functioning thing.

Is that one example? You're right. Yes, every is singular in this case.

So what would the Tibetan be for this phrase? Nopotamche. That would be part of it.

What would the first part of it be? An example is? I don't know.

He said it's senshi- Senshi. Oh, an example, okay. Oh, great, yeah, classic example.

Thank you. Cool. So now changing things can be divided into two.

So what are the two aspects of a changing thing? Physical and mental? That is a mental changing thing.

I mean, that may be, that's one way, but what's the way that KJJ gave us? Yeah. You're an empirical.

Yes, right. Changing things which are pure and changing things which are impure. And now Q, Oscar, what is the example of each that KJJ gives us?

Changing things which are pure.

[Speaker 2]
Is the wisdom after an aria perceives emptiness directly?

[Speaker 1]
Is it just any old aria?

[Speaker 3]
Oh, right, in the Mahayana, but in the greater way.

[Speaker 1]
Yes, an aria of the greater ways, worldly wisdom subsequent to the direct perception of emptiness, brilliant. And now what is an example of changing things which are impure?

[Speaker 2]
Just like the Sosokewa and their view of the world, their misunderstanding, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Right.

[Speaker 2]
Nice.

[Speaker 1]
Ordinary person's delusions of the world. Great. Doing great, right?

So little silence in this quiz. I'm just amazed.

[Speaker 3]
It would make us look better, Oscar, if you would not give us a pause to answer. Just jump right in.

[Speaker 1]
So now KJJ gives a rather unique, in terms of my normal- Oscar went to study overseas. Presentation of a mental construct, or a kuntak. What does he say it is?

And what example did he give? Mental construct. Kuntak.

Perfect silence. Perfect silence. It's just a construct.

Okay, it's a mere label of thought, which mainly takes as its basis a changing thing. Okay.

[Speaker 3]
Almost like a definition.

[Speaker 1]
What would be the example that he gave? Does anyone remember? Mountain.

Mountain? What was that? Mountain versus- Somebody said mountains.

Yeah. Oh, that's not the one that he gave. It's kind of similar to the one given for changing things, but different?

It's all general categories. That was easy. Okay, and we get a bonus question.

So we then, KJJ then quotes Jason Kappa from his art of interpretation, and we took a short detour to that text to find the context of that quote. And Jason Kappa gave us a little extra tidbit about Kuntaks and a warning. What was the tidbit that he gave us about Kuntaks?

Oh, that's fine. Well, he talks about imaginary, that imaginary, that Kuntaks could be like real or unreal. Brilliant.

Yes. Wow. For example, empty space and categories are existing things.

Yep. And then his warning. Don't confuse the unreal ones for real ones.

Well, in what context, Nick? When is that particularly important?

[Speaker 2]
Oh, when you're talking about emptiness, when you want to define emptiness.

[Speaker 1]
Right. So when we're establishing the meaning of emptiness in the mind-only school, and we're explaining it as the absence of something, it would be undesirable to use mental constructs that do exist. Yay.

Okay. Okay. So does this word have an English equivalent?

Yes. What would it be? Label, designate, examine.

Examined. Examined. And what does this word mean, Nick?

Labeled. Labeled. Right.

Now, what are the words that are, let's see, the active tense of these two words? We'll start with burr talk. Talk.

Say it again. Talk. Could you spell it for me?

Maybe. Got an owl. That one's R-T-O-G.

Yay. Talk, man. Very good.

Now, Nick, what's the present tense of talk? Mm. Owl.

Good. Don't. Don't.

Right. Don't. Right.

Very good. Right. Excellent.

What is the Tibetan word for undesirable? Homework. Homework?

What's the English word for undesirable? To not desire or undesirable? Machakta or something?

Someone tried to take control of my screen. Mikola. Isn't that not necessary?

Isn't that not necessary? Yeah, but in the context. Please stop trying to get control of my screen.

You cannot have it. Thank you.

[Speaker 3]
Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
Yay, nice homework. Excellent homework, by the way. Thank you.

Well, it was an excellent class. Not the answer, but the questions were good. So now here's my translation.

So you asked me to do this right here, but I had to go and find the file and get the rest so I could get the verb. Oh. Okay.

Oh, you mean because it's from Jason Kappa? Yes. All right.

Yeah, we're now back, we're in the detour still. So we covered, I just had the day doc up here because we covered that. That was the last thing we covered.

And that's the quote that KJJ pulled out. And Jason Kappa continues. She wrote, you know.

Whoa, okay. As for refuting that grass may proceed or lies on a perceived object being external, chu ru la dukpay sun dzun gopa, maybe. There are the line of reasoning in the summary about a dream and reflection in the mirror and the light.

Okay. And the line of reasoning in the 20 refuting partner sadhams, du chak me gopay rikpa dang, chu kyi jakpay, the line of reasoning by Master Dharmakirti refuting that the perceiver and the perceived object, sun dzin kyi tse ni yukpa, I'm just memorizing my definition. Okay.

gopay rikpa dang, and the line of reasoning by Master Dignanga, Yukpa dang, hitting that collection of particles and smallest particles. cho lang gi, du duppa dang, tra rup sun dun yinpa, Okay, good. That's okay.

Yep, difficult. Yep, not easy. Cool.

Cool. All right, here we go. Back to work.

Let me make sure I have something on the screen. Come on, honey bunny. Great job on the homework, you guys.

Really, that was great. You did a good job on the homework. Okay, let me do one thing before we start.

Hello, here we go. Okay, back to Zoom. Okay, here we go.

Okay, where did the people go? I don't know. Okay, I think we're...

How far did we get? No, what I translated was above where you have stopped here. Oh, okay.

So we start here at 370? Yes, yeah. Okay, can you read this paragraph yourself and then we'll pick on somebody else?

Okay. ,GZHAN GSUM PA NI, ,DRA THAG PA'I MTHONG PA LTA BU NI, ,DRA THAG PA MTHONG SHE, ,SOK GZHAP PA GONG PAE, ,BAK CHHAG KYI WONG ZANG GI LO YOD DUN GYUR WONG, ,MA YIN LA, ,DRA THAG PA MTHONG SHE, ,GZHAB PAE THA MYI GZHANG GI KYANG JOK MIN NUG KYANG, ,TOK PAE THAG PAE CHIT SEN YIN PAE GONG THAK, He said, shir jak gyur pa tabu nam so. Yeah, so it's a very difficult sentence, and we're in the mind-only school, and they say there's three kinds of things in the universe.

One is... the first is easy, shen wang, all changing things. Everything in the world that's changing.

Coffee cups, tables, everything else. And then there's concepts, conceptual things called kuntak. And they're like unchanging conceptual things, like empty space, emptiness itself.

And also, in that category, sometimes we put things that don't exist that you thought existed. And then the fact that changing things are empty of what you thought they were, but they're not, is called yong druk, which is emptiness in the mind-only school. So to start with a coffee cup, imagine that it's an outside...

when you look at the blue of the coffee cup, imagine that you are looking at some outside object. That outside object is a false thing. You're actually looking at blue in your own mind, according to mind-only school.

You're looking at blue in the kunshi, in the storehouse consciousness. So the blue which is outside is a conceptual blue, but it doesn't exist. You can imagine it, but it doesn't exist.

And then the fact that that blue doesn't exist is emptiness in the mind-only school, which is the third of the mind-only school categories, which is called yong druk, which is totality. So take changing things, subtract what they are not, and you reach emptiness. It's a formula.

Now the name for what they are not is kunta. And depending on how you spell it, as we saw in the homework, it can mean labeled, which means just the creation of your mind, or it can mean examined, if it's spelled differently. But as we saw in the homework, kunta literally means labeled.

So what I think he's covering in this paragraph is, are all the imaginary things like the blue, outside blue, which in the mind-only school cannot exist, does not exist. It's just imaginary, kunta. So the literal meaning of the word kunta is labeled.

And what it means is you made it up with a word and it's not really there. So we call it labeled. But he wants to explore whether all those things are actually labeled.

Okay? So he's saying, we call them kuntaks. We call them labeled things, but labeled in the sense of imaginary.

Just labeled with your imagination. But he says, is there a place where we could explore those things as the labels of names? Labeled with a name.

And would it have the same meaning? Okay, I'll say it again. This blue as an outside object is imaginary.

It's just created by my mind. But the literal word means labeled. So is there a place where you could interpret labeled to mean not there?

In English we say, we just call it outside, but it's not. Okay? So then I think he's exploring the question of labels.

Why does labeled mean non-existing? And it means you just made it up with a name, but it's not there. Outside blue is not there.

You can use a name, you can make a label, but it's false. And the word label is meant to imply that. Oh, that's just your own creation.

You're just labeling it something that it's not. But he's exploring the idea of label. So, sunyidratakpe tawa.

What's that mean, Utpala? It's like that sound is impermanent. Yeah.

It's like emptiness. Yeah. Sound is...

And don't forget in English, empty requires the genitive of. You have to say this cup is empty of being blue on the outside. But in Tibetan you have to use the instrumental.

It's empty by blue. Okay? In Tibetan you have to use an S, an instrumental S.

So here it says, sound is empty of what? Permanence. Of being unchanging.

Sound is empty of being unchanging. Okay? So let's take that concept, which is a very, very, very famous Buddhist concept.

Where did it come from? It came from the first syllogism of all Buddhism. drachichen mitakte chepay che.

What's that mean? Argument about non-Buddhist concerns. Yeah, let's take sound.

drachichen, let's take sound. Mitakte, it's constantly changing, moment by moment. Why?

Because it was produced by your throat and your tongue. Anything produced by causes is changing moment by moment. And that was a response to a Hindu school that said the word om is unchanging.

Om is eternal in the sense of unchanging. So we said, no, it's not. And they said, why?

And we said, because you said it. Anything produced with your tongue and your throat is changing. Its nature is changing.

That sound will disappear and then a new sound will come up. So let's take the fact that sound is empty of being unchanging. drag tap pa me rol she Then you can say there's no such thing as a sound which is unchanging.

I'll say it again. What does it mean to say sound is empty of not changing? And you say, it's the fact that sound is not unchanging.

Sorry. It's the fact that there doesn't exist any sound which is unchanging. To say that sound is empty of being unchanging is to say there's no sound which is unchanging.

That's all. drag takpay tongwa The fact that sound is empty of not changing is equivalent to saying drag takpa me. There's no such thing as a sound which is unchanging.

Okay, got it? He's just explaining you don't have to call it emptiness. You don't have to say sound is empty of unchanging.

You can just say no sound is unchanging. There's no such thing as a sound which is unchanging. Or you could say sound is empty of being unchanging.

They mean the same thing. They mean the same thing. To say something is empty of something and to say something is not something, it's the same thing.

shepa kompay bakchak What's this kompa mean, Utpala? That shepa kompa, is that from beginningless time we've gotten used to it a certain way? Yeah, this kom is not the word gom.

And thank goodness your Tibetan teacher taught you the difference between gom and kom. By the way, the second sound does not exist in English. Nobody goes around and saying, did you open the garage?

We have the hard one, ga. We have garage. When the G is hard in gom, it means to meditate.

When it's soft, kom. A big difference. Listen.

Gom. Kom. Gom.

Kom. Gom means meditate. Kom means to get used to something.

And it's beautiful that the word for meditation is built from the word for getting used to something. So this is get used to something. Shepa kom means, you repeat a word for billions of lifetimes, you put a bhagyak in your mind for that.

If you say long enough, if you say enough times that sound is not unchanging, then sooner or later you will build up a habit of thinking of it that way. And the idea... By the way, this kompe bhagyak was used to...

I like the use of it in the Mind-Only School to explain why it feels like the cup is half a meter away from me. Okay? It feels like the cup is outside.

It feels like it's a half a meter. What created the impression of distance? Because it's false.

In the Mind-Only School, it's false. Yeah, I'm really looking inside my own mind. So people say, okay, I understand.

I'm really looking inside my own mind, but I think it's outside. But where did the impression of distance come from, and why can it increase and decrease? That seems pretty real.

And the explanation in the Mind-Only School is, you said it so many billions of times in your lifetimes, the cup is out there, that you started to believe it. It created a distance. It created an imaginary distance.

It's all an illusion. Okay? But that illusion comes from billions, billions, billions of lifetimes saying the cup is out half a meter away.

Okay, the impression, the false impression of distance is created by billions of lifetimes of repetition of the wording, of the wording. And here, the impression that something is changing or unchanging is also created by the wording, over billions of lifetimes. Okay, got it?

wang tsam What's that, Utpala? Only through the power of saying it over and over? Yeah, it's just because of constant repetition for billions of lifetimes.

It just is important here, right? It's just that. It's very similar to the just in mantra, citta mantra.

The other name of the mind only. It's just billions of lifetimes of repeating it. But it is not a loi yu.

It's not an object in the mind. Yeah, and implied pramana. The feeling of distance is not an object of correct perception, of accurate perception.

It's just an illusion from billions of lifetimes of saying that, okay? By the way, this whole section is a wrap-up of the mind-only school's three qualities. And this section is a wrap-up of the idea of kunta, of imaginary things, which unfortunately means labeled.

Okay? So he's talking about where do labels come from. ma yin la.

dra la tapa med do What's that mean? There is no sound that is... Good.

There's nothing unchanging. There's no quality of unchangingness about sound. she gyepay thangye tsam gyi jok min nu Just by saying, just by repeating to somebody, after a billion lifetimes of hearing the opposite, and they say, listen, sound is not unchanging.

Is it enough to reverse billions of lifetimes of habit? Is it enough? Is it enough to reverse billions of lifetimes of habit to say sound is not unchanging?

[Speaker 3]
Well, in another billion years.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. jok min nu means you're not going to make your point just by repeating it once to somebody. You think sound is unchanging?

Well, it's not. But they've been thinking that for millions of lifetimes, so how are you going to... min nu means you can't.

And you can make up words for things and they become kuntar, but that doesn't make them a real category of existence. Just creating a new label is not enough. tokpay takpa means what?

Burpa. Yeah, just a label of a concept. Just a label of a concept.

chi tsen. It's a general idea. Yeah, that's a concept.

Okay? That's a concept. yin de, therefore, kuntak, any comment about the spelling?

Did you use the right one?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Is it the right one or the wrong one? This is the one that means examine de. It is not the one which means label de, as we learned in the homework.

Okay? Who's speaking here? Kedar Jai.

I mean, well, Kedar Jai and it's also, he's been quoting Tse Tsongkhapa, and to be honest, they had a problem with it. They mixed it up sometimes. Okay?

I don't think it should be BR. I think it should be BT. Okay?

kun dak gi tsen shir chag gupa tabu namsong Where are you going to find an example for something labeled? He says, okay, mind only school, default mind only school. Yes.

Do they have three categories? Yes. What are the three categories?

Well, the first one is really easy. Anything that changes. Which means anything that does anything.

It's a synonym. If it changes, it does something. If it does something, it changes.

There's an equal set. Everything that does something changes, and everything that changes does something. So, that one's easy.

What's the second one? kun tak What's that? Made up ideas.

Made up stuff. Like, I don't know, a sound which is unchanging. Okay?

So, is it enough to, to be in the second category, is it enough to be labeled? That's the point. Is it enough to be labeled, to be in the second category?

I can create a label. I can say this cup is unchanging. That's a label.

Does it become kun tak? Does it become the category of mind only school? Just because I said so?

You're saying is, but as for the object, that's a different story. I think the point of this paragraph is, look, kun tak is the second category of the mind only school. Of course, it does mean labeled, but we're not talking about any old label you make up.

We're talking about billion lifetime labels. Got it? Okay?

Just saying something, just labeling something, just labeling something, something, is not enough to qualify as the second group in the mind only school, because by canceling that, you don't arrive at emptiness. By canceling that, you don't arrive at emptiness. Does it mean labeled?

Yes. Does it refer to anything label you can make up? Fish have wings?

No. Why? Because understanding that fish have wings is false, it's not going to bring you to the emptiness.

Got it? When we say labeled, we want the big ones, the billion lifetime labels. We don't want any label that you can make up.

Fish have wings. Okay, did you understand that fish don't have wings? Yes.

Did you perceive emptiness? No. It's not kun tak.

Is it labeled? Yes. Is it imaginary?

Yes. Is it important? No.

That's the point here. Okay, got it? Not all kun tak are kun tak.

Got it? But kun tak in the sense of the kun tak that would, when denied, would lead you to yong druk. Emptiness.

Yeah, yong druk. Exactly, exactly. Yeah, I think that's the point he's making here.

And that's why he brought up ngun chu yi bak chak. That's why he brought up billions of lifetime labels. Billion lifetime labels.

Those are the labels we're talking about. We're not talking about just anything you make up. Okay?

[Speaker 3]
But the billion lifetime label was made up.

[Speaker 1]
It was. Yeah, it was made up. It is a construction.

It is an imaginary construction. But in the mind-only school, we're not interested in the little imaginary constructions that happen day to day. Oh, this is a, you know, fishes have wings.

We're interested in the big time ones. And by the way, there's a famous argument. Do all kun taks not exist?

Do all labeled ideas not exist? No. Yeah, we saw it in the homework.

There's labeled things that do exist, like, I don't know, emptiness. Oh, not emptiness, but stuff like that. There are labels that are valid.

Okay? And where do those go? If the three categories of the mind-only school cover all existing things, where do you put unchanging things that do exist, like empty space?

That's the creation of a label. But yeah, you got to put it somewhere. So you put it in.

Therefore, you have to say imaginary things have existing ones and non-existing ones. General categories. Tibetan is what?

Chi tsens do exist. There is a thing called cars. There is a thing called cars.

There is a thing called cups. Can you touch it? No.

Does it change? No. Does it disappear?

Yes. Does it change before it disappears? No.

Does it ever change? No. Can it go out of existence?

Yes. It can go out of existence without changing. Correct.

Okay, got it? Those are kuntaks. So kuntaks can be existing.

That's a little problem with the mind-only school. And a category, cars, cups, fish, that's unchanging. The individual fish are changing in the group, but the group itself is an imagination.

It's an imaginary set with real members. But the set is imaginary. Those kuntaks exist.

Those labels exist. Okay, got it? By the way, he should have put this whole section where, Utpala?

At the beginning. Yeah, goddamn. We're 371.

We're like two years into this text. Now he's going to define the mind-only school stuff? After debating it for two years?

Now? Just before you walk into the middle way door? Just before you leave the mind-only school?

You finally tell us what the hell are their three categories? Thanks. That's big of you, you know.

Okay? Did you guys want a definition of kuntak? Here you go.

I mean, any other book would have put it at the beginning. Right? And then had all the arguments.

All right? Why he does that, who knows? Yes, Shola.

Please. Yeah. I was about to make a comment, and Kejup J is actually doing it right here.

I think, I agree that Jason Kappa and Kejup J seem to use the incorrect spelling of kuntak from time to time. But I think the one he used previously in the paragraph was purposefully used. Because he says, tokpay takpay chitsen.

Basically he defines kuntak as the thing that is labeled with that sort of incorrect examination. And that is a kuntak. Yeah.

He used the right one there, and we wish he would have used it with kuntak. Yeah. It's confusing though.

By the way, the Sanskrit is confusing. I know. It's probably the same word.

Okay. Who's going to read Utpala 371? I would like Venerable Chodron to read, please.

Okay. Hello. Hello.

sen nyik nyi tokpay takpa, tsam gang shik lo chulway dundrup. Dundrup. Dundrup.

Yeah. He's going to give us a senyi, finally, which is where it always comes in the beginning on every other book. Here's the definition of a kuntak.

Here's the definition of a kuntak. The first half I agree with, the second half I'm not sure. And it's very short, so we can hold it in our mind, right?

Okay, here it is. Tokpay taksam. It's just labeled by your imagination.

Yeah. It's a label created by your imagination. Okay.

That's okay. That part's okay. Then he says it's always a dun of a lo trulwa.

It's always the object of a... Mistaken state of mind. Of a mistaken state of mind, which precludes emptiness, which, sorry, which precludes empty space, which precludes unchanging things that do exist.

There are concepts, chitsens. There are cars, cops, fish. The group, the set, is unchanging.

And it's a label, okay? But he says it has to be false. It has to be wrong.

So, Thay Duk Je, where's empty space in your mind-only school structure? Where are you going to put it now? You said we can't put it in imaginary things, labeled things.

It's obviously not a changing thing, and it's not emptiness. Where is it going to go? Where will it go?

Where do you think it will go? It should go in kundaks. It should go in labeled things.

But it's not lo trulwa dun. It's not the object of a mistaken state of mind. He's giving this as the definition of kundak.

Okay? And it's an interesting approach. It's an interesting approach.

It's just that it's not complete anymore. There's kundaks which do exist. There's imaginary things which do exist.

Empty space, categories. Okay? Got it?

You okay? You all right?

[Speaker 3]
Facts.

[Speaker 1]
Facts are kundak. Facts are kundak. The sky is blue.

Is that changing or unchanging? It's unchanging as long as the sky is there. Okay?

So where do you put it, Ketuji? Is it a false perception? Is the sky not blue?

Is your sky green? Okay, all right, anyway. Now, normally in the beginning of a book, you give the definition, and then you give the typical categories of a thing.

Okay? You give the typical divisions of a thing. When you present a concept in a Buddhist book, normally in the beginning, you give the definition, the divisions, and then you give the typical examples, prime examples.

Okay? Here's the divisions. Who's going to read Venerable Rinpoche?

I think Venerable Chunsum again because that one was so short. All right. Okay.

Kuntak. Yeah, and then he says, do you want examples of kuntak? Yes, please.

Well, there's existing ones and there's non-existing ones. But you just said they always had to be the object of a mistaken state of mind. Oh, did I say that?

Okay. By the way, his divisions here in this section are theoretical divisions, and sometimes they are thematic divisions. They're not real divisions.

So that's a Buddhist thing. You have real divisions and you have cute divisions. And the cute divisions are just to teach you something else.

So I think he's using a cute division here. He says, kuntaks, in the last sentence, he said, kuntaks are always mistaken, objects of a mistaken state of mind. Then in the next sentence, he says, and there's two kinds of kuntaks, those that are real and those that aren't.

Thanks. So when I see the ones that are real, do I have a mistaken state of mind? No.

But you just said that was the definition of a kuntak. Yeah, did I? Okay.

All right, so yena means if you divide... what? Yeah, the different kinds of kuntaks.

There's two kinds. Okay. What's the first one?

Well, that's namdang be kuntak. namdang be kuntak means labels in the sense of optional labels. Label options.

Label options. What's an example? ngo dang kyepar gyi ta nye gyi shi yinpa ngo dang kyepar gyi ta nye gyi shi We could say, for example, by the way, there's the nature of a cup and then there's the name of the cup.

There's the nature of the cup and there's the qualities of the cup. There's the essential cup and then there's the round shape, the shape of the handle. So these are called ngo and kyepar.

ngo means the essence of... it holds liquid. That's essence cup.

Then kyepar means it's blue. This one's round. This one's chubby.

Those are called kyepar. So there's the essential cup and there's the details of the cup. ngo dang kyepar And there's a thing which is the nexus or the combination of those two things.

All cups, all objects, they're essentials and then they're details. There's the essential of the cup and then there's the details of this particular cup. So those kind of things, when you think of cup as the place which has two things, essential nature and details, when you think of cup as combining two things, the essence that makes it a cup, it holds water.

And then the details that differentiate it from other cups. Is there one thing which has those two things, yes or no? Is there one thing in my hand which has an essential nature of cup and certain personal details about this cup?

Yeah, there is. That's called a concept. That cup is a concept.

Why? And then there's a huge argument of whether it's possible to identify it as a cup in the same millisecond that you identify it as a fat blue one. In the same millisecond that you identify it as holding water and therefore a cup, can you, in the same millisecond of perception, perceive that it's blue and fat?

Is it possible? We say no because they are different concepts. The mind can't hold two concepts in a millisecond.

The classical explanation is I see it as a cup because I notice that it's holding coffee and then maybe two milliseconds later I notice that it's blue and fat. But in the same instant I cannot hold both of those ideas together. But in theory, I do.

Do you see this as a fat blue cup? Yes. Is it possible?

No.

[Speaker 3]
Why?

[Speaker 1]
You can't identify it as holding liquid in the same millisecond that you identify it as blue and fat. So can you ever see a fat blue cup? Yes.

Does that happen in a single millisecond? We say no. Probably not possible.

But can you say I have a fat blue cup in my hand? Yes. That's a label then.

That's an imaginary thing. You have made up a combination of two things which cannot be perceived in the same moment. You have just made that up, Geshe-la.

You glued together two separate perceptions of a cup and you said I see a fat blue cup in my hand. But you can't. You cannot.

You can either identify it as a cup or you can see it as blue. But nobody can do both at once except the Buddha. Nobody can do both at once.

Therefore, when you say it's a fat blue cup, you are making up a label. That's a label. Does that label exist?

Yes. You can use it. You can drink coffee out of it.

He says you can divide labels into two. First, useful made-up labels. Fat blue cup.

Those are useful. Those exist. There's a fat blue cup in my hand.

It's okay. We can use it. That's just a label.

Nobody could ever see a fat blue and cup at the same moment. But okay. Generally speaking, it's useful.

Now, there's a second category of labeled things which cannot exist. That's the one we're interested in in the Mind-Only School because we're trying to get to... Yungduk.

Yungduk. We're trying to get to emptiness. We're not interested in the labels that are useful.

We're interested in the labels that are impossible because those are the ones that are causing you trouble in your life. Thinking that things don't come from you is a made-up label. That's the one that's causing you all the trouble in your life.

That's causing you all the suffering in your life. That's the one we're really interested in. Let's go to the second one.

What's the second one? No. What's the second kind of labels?

We had labels that do exist. There's a hint.

[Speaker 3]
Those that don't exist.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Let's talk about the labels that don't exist. Fat blue cup.

I'll buy it. It's not totally correct, but it's usable. It's useful.

Now, what are the labels that are not useful? Dak nyi tabu. Oh, the two kinds of self.

Yeah, the two kinds of self. The self of people and the self of things. Yeah.

People who come from their own side and things that come from their own side. Okay? Those are imaginations.

Those are fantasies. Are they useful? Yes.

No. They're the ultimate unuseful. Okay?

They're the ones that cause you all the trouble in your life. That's why you hate people. That's why you have war.

You don't want to believe the other country comes from you. You created this maniac who wants to bomb people indiscriminately. You created that.

Dak nyi tabu. That kind of thing. People and things that come from their own side.

YONGS CHE YONGS CHE means... Here, YONGS SU CHES PA means canceled. It literally means canceled.

Those are cancelable kuntaks. We want to cancel them. We want to stop believing that this maniac is not coming from us.

Okay, got it? Cool? That's the second kind of kuntak.

What are the two kinds of kuntak? Useful impossibles and not-useful impossibles. Okay?

Got it? Cool? All right.

Phew. All right. We're ready to go on to the third quality of the Maino Nisku.

Who's going to read?

[Speaker 3]
This idea about kuntaks necessarily being wrong, which is troubling, but is the idea that somehow an enlightened being would engage on things strictly or directly on the level of changing reality, not need labels in this school, and only be engaging directly with shenrong?

[Speaker 1]
I think if you... That's a huge subject, and we'll never get anywhere if we discuss it, but cook it. Cook it.

There's an opinion expressed here by one of the greatest thinkers in history that all kuntaks involve misperceptions. Okay, 373. Who's going to read, Utpala?

Pei-Ling, please. Hmm.

[Speaker 3]
Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
Nice. So what's the definition of yong duk? The third category of the Maino Nisku.

By the way, yong duk means emptiness in the Maino Nisku. But it's defined in its relationship to the other two qualities of the Maino Nisku. The fact that changing things are empty...

The fact that a blue cup is empty of existing outside is emptiness in the Maino Nisku. Blue cup exists? Yes.

The fact that it's outside? Doesn't exist. The fact that it doesn't exist outside is its emptiness.

Existing outside? Kuntak. Cup?

Shenwang. The fact that it doesn't exist outside? Yong duk.

Emptiness in this school. Emptiness in this school. And it's a nice belief.

It means everything you see is a result of your own seeds. It's just another way of emphasizing. Every asshole you meet in your life is inside your own refrigerator.

You are looking at your own mind. If you want to shoot them, go ahead. All right.

yong duk ni shenwang gi ten nu dang dzin nye kyi kun tak tak drub pa'i tongpay Let's start with deshe nyi. Utpala, deshe nyi. It's...

It's tak tak. Emptiness. It's another word for emptiness.

Suchness. You can call it suchness. Deshe nyi means suchness.

The same as tongpay nyi. Then read backwards. Emptiness in the form of the fact that things are empty of the imagination we had about them, misspelled, thank you, of having two kinds of self-nature.

Okay? Of having two kinds of self-nature. Self-nature to things and self-nature to people.

The fact that things are empty of those two self-natures is emptiness in the mind-only school, which we call thusness or suchness. Okay, cool? Why didn't he call it tongpay nyi?

Why did he use a synonym for tongpay nyi? Why did he use a synonym for emptiness rather than saying emptiness? Because he just used tong and that would be...

He just used tong as a verb. He just used empty of. And listen, tongpay tongnyi.

It's weird. The emptiness of being empty of... Please, can you say it some other way?

How about the suchness where things are empty of? Okay, that's all. He just wanted to spare us confusion.

The fact that everything in the universe is empty of the imaginations you had about it is emptiness, is ultimate reality in the mind-only school. Not bad. Cool?

There's a definition of the two kinds of ultimate reality. Now we have... What do we have here?

We have definition, divisions. Now he's going to give you the divisions of some kind of kuntar. Sorry, divisions of yong druk.

He's going to give you the divisions of emptiness. We still got one minute. Okay, Utpala.

Why don't you read, Utpala? Good. So you can divide mind-only school emptiness into two kinds.

And by the way, these divisions are... Not all divisions in scripture are technically correct. They are just pedagogical.

Hey, there's two divisions of people in the world. What? There's good people and there's empty people.

And it's not a true division. It's not an exhaustive division. It's just an educational division.

And sometimes you get that. You got to be aware that not all divisions in the definition section of a scripture are exhaustive. They are sometimes just to teach the student something.

Okay, so the thek chen pakpay. Thek chen pakpay means what? An Arya in the middle way from the school.

Yeah, a bodhisattva who saw emptiness directly. It's hard to see emptiness directly. It's almost impossible to be a bodhisattva who sees emptiness directly.

But this guy is both. This person is both. Thek chen pakpay.

CHOS KYI BDAG MED RTOGS PA'I They understand the lack of a self-nature to things, which is more difficult. DER SNYAM ZHAG GIS SHES Their wisdom of the path of seeing for a higher child. A bodhisattva in the direct perception of emptiness.

Extremely rare. Every five centuries or something. NYAM ZHAG GIS SHES LTA BU That's CHIN CIG MA LOGS PA'I RYONG GRUB CHIN CIG MA LOGS PA means Not wrong.

Yeah, not wrong. Unmistaken. The unmistaken perception of emptiness by a high Arya is the first kind of RYONG GRUB.

But Sugeng is nodding, and I object to your nodding. Why? Why did I object to your nodding?

Because this is talking about... No. You are positive.

State of mind as emptiness? Right. That's a shenwang, god dang it.

That's in the first category. That's a changing thing. That's a functioning thing.

Unless you say an Arya's mind is not functioning. Got it? It's extremely offensive.

Okay? There's two kinds of emptiness. What's the first one?

The mind of an Arya. Okay? And again, it's one of those divisions which is educational and not technically correct.

Got it? By the way, there's going to be a violent reaction to these two divisions. Somebody's going to say, but wait a minute.

That's a plain old shenwang. You know? I don't care if it's an Arya's perception of emptiness.

It's still a state of mind. It's still a changing, functioning thing. What the heck is it doing in the ultimate unchanging list?

Okay? And there's going to be a fight. KDUG BYED is picking a fight.

Probably the second kind of RYONG GRUB here is pretty normal. What's that? Udpala.

CHOS NI RGYUR MED Easy, easy. Easy schmeezy. CHOS NI which is RGYUR MED.

Yeah. In the absence of anything being itself. Emptiness.

CHOS NI DANG MA LTAR Emptiness is the ultimate nature of things and emptiness are synonyms. Which is RGYUR MED which is unchanging. Unchanging.

Does that fit RGYUR MED? Quite. Yeah, perfect.

That I can buy. That I can buy. The unchanging true nature of reality?

That sounds like RGYUR MED to me. But the mind that sees it? Are you crazy?

That's a plain old shen wu. Got it? KDUG BYED is purposely starting trouble here.

Okay? Which is BAB DGE'I. Udpala.

What's that? Skillful means...

[Speaker 3]
Skillful means...

[Speaker 1]
Unexpected strategy. What's Geshe-la always say about upaya? It's not papaya.

It's upaya. All right. Yeah.

Doesn't he say dak mey? Isn't it saying the realization of a lack of self within the mind? Yes, it does.

But the realization is a changing thing. The lack of self is an unchanging thing. Yeah, that's fine.

So Geshe-la, he's saying that unchanging is the emptiness. Emptiness is not a change. Which part?

The first or the second? CHOS NI RGYUR MED Yeah, CHOS NI RGYUR MED. By the way, RGYUR MED is a very common name in certain schools of Buddhism, like Kagyu.

I had a good friend named RGYUR MED DORJE. Unchanging Diamond. And because they come from East Tibet, they'll say RGYUR MED.

Okay. When they talk like that, they say RGYUR MED. Hey, RGYUR MED.

Hey, RGYUR MED. Okay? Got it?

That's why Kangyur became Kangyur for the early American scholars. Okay. Got it?

Okay. By the way, Venerable Upala, can you translate 375 for next time? I will give it my best attempt.

Yeah, and by the way, then he has what we call... What do we call that? It's called Take a Break Poems.

It's called Take a Break Poems. And in the middle of a really nasty section, they'll give you a little poem, just to make you feel better. Okay?

So, he breaks into... It's called PHAR RGABS KYI TZIG, 378. PHAR RGABS KYI TZIG means, Hey, you guys getting freaked out?

Yes. Is your mind melting down? Yes.

How about I give you a little poetry to calm down? And they throw in one or two verses of poetry, and then they hit you with the next part. Okay?

So, there's PHAR RGABS KYI TZIG here. TZIG SU BYAS PA means shloka, verse. And then they go into an unbelievable survey of all of Buddhism, before he moves to the middle way.

So, it's incredible. It's an extraordinary section. It's worth the wait.

Okay, so, 375 Venerable Upala, and thank you for a nice homework, and thank you for a perfect translation. Thank you. Oh, wait.

You're going to discuss why this can be useful for us. Grandpa's going to go sit down. I mean, one thing that sort of came to my mind in this very last part, when you, I guess you, Michael, talked about how not all divisions are true divisions, but are pedagogical in nature.

I can't say that word. Are used for instructive purposes. I think it's like maybe a clue.

When I see something that doesn't seem to quite make sense, that like a PHAR RGABS KYI TZIG, like a verse that's going to be used to give me a little breather, that maybe what I need to do is just take a breath and look and see is what is this trying to teach me? Like, why is this being said here? Could there be some other purpose?

That's what I thought of. Does anyone else have thoughts relevant to what we discussed and how they can be used in your daily life? Cool.

Anatole says that it seems like we're heading toward the idea that changing itself is just a label. Changing is just a sequence of labels, labels that are themselves unchanging. And how would you use that in your daily life, Anatole?

[Speaker 2]
It's an experience to feel like nothing's changing in the sense that everything is just a reflection of my seeds. So you can walk into any situation and although things are actively changing around you, there's something that's never changing, which is that it's just a mirror of yourself. So you can kind of use that as a kind of armor wherever you go, I think.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and that even that the change itself that you perceive is just made up, right? Because you can only see one thing at a time. And so to link things together and then call it changing, yeah, I see what you're saying.

Like the cocoon maybe or something. It's a very deep breath. And Pei-Ling says that everyone and everything in our lives can be our teacher and we should see them as our teacher.

So help me make that leap, Pei-Ling. How did you get from what was discussed today to that conclusion? I don't mean to put you on the spot.

I was just curious. What about storage for kuntox? What do you mean by storage for kuntox?

Are you talking about foundation consciousness? About the kunshi?

[Speaker 3]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Yes. Well, what about them? What about it?

Oh, if the seeds for billions of – okay. If kuntox are for billions of years, where are they stored? So I don't know.

I mean, the mind-only school, doesn't it say that – I mean, word, maybe you can jump in here. But isn't it that if you repeat something over and over that the seeds, the potentials that exist in the refrigerator part of the kunshi are getting more potent? They're actually just creating a whole bunch more seeds.

She had an earlier question about this, and it might help give you context. You were in class. We were saying how kuntox – there's existent and nonexistent kuntox, and then shenlongs are changing things.

So then if there's no – you can correct me if I'm wrong, Ina, by the way. If there's no seeds – if kuntox aren't changing things, how are they planted and stored as pakchaks in the kunshi? Or where are they stored if they're not stored there?

Something like that. That was her question. My answer?

[Speaker 3]
I don't think you have to store them. I don't think you have to store kuntox. I think that's the convenience of them not being real things in this school.

Yeah, changing things need a place. And speaking of changing things, of course I'm mystified by this statement of Kedrup Jey's about kuntox necessarily being in a confused or mistaken state of mind. I'm thinking a lot about the way that we get stuck behind ideas.

We take ideas and we put them on things. And it's not that there's no truth to them, but it's that somehow there's a limitation to truth whenever we put a label on something. We see an object as if the lines around that object are, I don't know, some sort of event horizon where nothing passes, like things aren't interacting with one another all around each other all the time.

We have this river that flows through Albuquerque here, the Rio Grande. When you go to point at a river, a river is made of water, but you go to point at the water, you say that water there, and as soon as you point, the water is gone. And I am a river of change, and I think of myself as a guy who doesn't understand what Kedrup Jey just said, and I'm struggling with it, and I feel stuck.

I feel the power of these limitations by my names for myself, who I think I am, and instead watching things unfold, planting seeds, watching things unfold, the limitations of what we can achieve together, what we can achieve individually, what we can achieve as a community. They're not real, is what I'm thinking. The possibilities for us, that would make enlightenment seem possible if my labels are false, if every time I reach out to call myself something, it's a little bit of a lie.

It could be useful in a certain context, but I've already changed. Before I even reach out to call myself something, I've become something new in each moment. And so I don't know.

I guess this gives me some sense of wanting to walk down the street and see what's possible, and gives me some thought that there may be versions or visions of myself, of one another, that I don't even have words for yet. And by this service to one another, this community that we've built together, I don't know, maybe Gish and Michael, by constantly changing the name of the night club, good night club, good night book club. It's a changing thing.

What this community is, what we're capable of doing together, is moving faster, going farther than any name we can put on it. Thank you, Ben.

[Speaker 1]
We're a minute over for the peach tree. Thank you all for thinking about this, and I look forward to the next quiz. That's going to be a trip.

They always are. Thank you so much for an awesome class. Thank you, Gish and Michael, for an awesome class.

Upala, that homework was definitely awesome and thought-provoking. Thank you so much to our lovely translators, interpreters, and the Worldview Productions tech team. We love you guys, and we're grateful for you, and we don't thank you enough.

So we'll try to start, so thanks. And we have right now another episode from the Peachtree World News. So step on up, guys, and take it away.

And we'll see you on Monday for some more from Schoen Songz Tower. Oh, and stick around for Class with Word after this, right, Word? Correct.

Good. All right, cool. Thank you, thank you.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you, Nick. Hello. How's it going?

[Speaker 1]
It's going well. Good to see you. Have a nice segment.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, thank you. So Gish and Michael, at the beginning of the class, was showing us the books that the Book Night Reading Club is sending to people these days. And in that sense and in that regards, I want to share with you something very cool that happened yesterday in Guadalajara, Mexico.

Some of the regional organizers of this Good Night Reading Club, now I have to say all the names, right, the Good Night Reading Club, local organizers of Guadalajara, well, in Mexico, you know, the Latin American organizers, let's put it that way, they organized like a very first event to start promoting these books. It was a very successful, very cool event. They were having fun playing.

They decided to dress up in their pajamas, just like, you know, making it more like a really set up for like if you were going to bed. And we want to share a little bit of what happened. It's a very short video, but it's great.

So maybe you organizers or people around the world can start making your own, you know, little Good Night Reading Club events and let people know what's happening, encourage them to read. Let's check it out.

[Speaker 3]
This book is especially cool. Today I was able to make it. It's not just reading.

I actually read. Very cool. And it's made in the United States.

So, all in all, I think it's beautiful. I'm excited. We said it's impossible to take the path presented in this book.

What is it?

[Speaker 1]
In fact, this book is the first edition of the company. It was created by Dr. Ward Lee.

[Speaker 2]
So, thank you very much to all of us that made that possible. Daniel came all the way, he lives, this Daniel lives in Germany. He came all the way to Mexico, Flavia, Olga and many more people organized the event.

So, thank you very much and we keep encouraging you to sign up for the reading club, no, book night reading club, good night club. You see even the poster, so it's not my fault. Good night club to the night club.

And yeah, you can use the QR codes, it's very, very nice, very, very worth it. And check it out the next one. Yes, there you can see some of the local organizers with the QR codes.

And yeah, I thought it was a great idea. So imagine like different cities, different places in the world can start having good night reading clubs events time to time and create community, let people know this is happening. We all have great time reading these books.

Then we want to share with you some more news happening and then we will have a special interview for a very cool topic. So we're going to go fast with this next news. Then in three more minutes, interview with some special guests.

Okay, YSI is organizing soon at the end of this month, an event of fast for hunger. Some of you may have heard about this event before. It's like when you dedicate one of your meals to remove world hunger.

It's a very cool event. And you're going to get to hear a little bit more about this in detail very soon. We're going to have special interviews, but I'm letting you know it's happening at the end of this month.

Okay, next one. We want to share with you and remind you that YSI is providing a very cool video of Geshe-la and Bob Zirino playing music. We want to show the previous, but if you are interested in getting the video, use these QR codes there.

Or you can get it at the Yoga Studies Institute website. We're going to just show you the preview of the video they produce and you can get it using this QR code. So let's watch the video.

[Speaker 1]
So check it out.

[Speaker 2]
Beautiful. No? I really like it.

You can find it at the Yoga Studies Institute website if you are interested about it. And this is a good time. Yes, there you go.

Use the QR codes. It will send you to the website. Yes.

This is a great time again to remind you about this is your last chance. Kyoto is coming up. Sign up now.

You can still make it. March 19th to 23rd. It's going to be very cool and special teachings by Tim Lohenhaupt in Kyoto, Japan.

So you still have a chance. It's not too late, but soon it will be. So use the QR code.

Try to come. It's going to be very, very fun. I hear Kyoto is beautiful.

You're going to have fun and learn some very meaningful content there. If you can make it, try to come. And yeah, we have many more news, but I think it's time to go with our special guest, which is Sunam from Diamond Mountain.

She has very special news about a very cool event. Are you there, Sunam? Thank you, Juan, for having me.

Very welcome.

[Speaker 3]
How's it going over there? How's the spring?

[Speaker 2]
It's good. The spring is coming. The first flowers are out.

The first animals are out. Yes, yes, yes. Awesome.

And tell us a little bit, because I was myself, I was very surprised to hear about this new when we first talked, and I think it's a great thing for everyone to know. What's special about this particular year in Diamond Mountain?

[Speaker 3]
We are celebrating Diamond Mountain's 20th anniversary and the 10th year anniversary of the end of the three-year retreat.

[Speaker 2]
So let's celebrate, let's party, and, you know, celebration and party is about honoring all the people who contributed to Diamond Mountain, what it is today.

[Speaker 3]
So many people volunteered, a lot of work went into it, what it is today. And we really want to take the chance to celebrate it and honor all these people. So there are a lot of surprises.

The party will be on April 20th, starting at 4.30 p.m. Wow, so that's, oh sorry, Sunam, that's during the Steps on the Path retreat?

[Speaker 2]
Exactly, exactly. So everybody can join the party, either online. If you want to come on site for the party, because we're fully booked, bring a tent or book a hotel in Billcox and stop by for the party.

And also then the teachings on the next day in the morning, everybody can attend. So it's really, really exciting. And what we will do during the party, the surprises, I need your help.

That we can make one surprise happening. We want that Geshe-la teaches a very, very special class.

[Speaker 3]
And I would like all of you to open your mic and that we ask Geshe-la now that he teaches. So maybe you can open your mic and then we do the traditional thing and say three times, please teach, please teach, please teach. Are you ready?

Ready. Open your mic, let's do the coyote thing. One, two, three.

Please. Please. Please teach.

Please teach.

[Speaker 2]
What is the class about?

[Speaker 3]
You need to ask Geshe-la.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. That's why I need your help. Thank you.

[Speaker 3]
Thank you so much for throwing your karma in there as well and helping me with that, that we have, that we might have a special surprise class. Then we also will hear lots of stories about the last 20 years, what happened in Diamond Mountain. It will not be a boring history.

It will be really fun storytelling about what happened in the last 20 years.

[Speaker 2]
And then lots of eat and dancing. That's part of a party, eating and dancing. So please sign up.

And when you sign up, please let us know your favorite dance song. Which is your favorite dance song, Juan? I don't know.

I have so many. I can't tell you the name right now, but I really like dancing and I really like parties and I really like food and teachings. So it looks like a great deal, everything.

So sign up, come in person for the party or join online for the party. Celebrate with us. Let's honor and review the last 20 years.

[Speaker 3]
Thank you so much for having me, Juan.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you as well. And congratulations. Congratulations to Diamond Mountain.

20 years of activities and projects happening there. 10 years. Congratulations to the people who did the last three year retreat there.

It's funny because I can't believe 10 years already. That's the first time I went to Diamond Mountain is when the three year retreatants were finishing the retreat. I remember.

I remember Ben Kramer being there. I met him. You wouldn't imagine was the first thing he told me.

It's funny. I won't tell you yet, but it was great. Nothing bad.

[Speaker 3]
And I invite you for the storytelling if you have a funny story about that.

[Speaker 2]
Maybe, maybe, maybe we can do that because I remember Errol used to have long hair. I remember many people who were there during those days. It was great.

My English was very, very little. Still is sometimes, but you know. Thank you so much, Sunam.

So, yeah, we will check it out. Yeah, we'll check it out. I encourage people to check it out and we will see again on Monday.

And Geshe-la, thank you so much for everything. Please teach, please teach, please teach and see you soon. Now we go back to Ward Smith for more Tibetan learning.

[Speaker 1]
Hello.