Бетси Грир — Книга 2: Интерлюдия о пустоте, занятие 56

[Speaker 1]
Getting gussied up. His crack team of aestheticians putting him up to be present for us. Thank you so much, Translators Live, translators for your extraordinary work.

I don't know how you do it, but you seem to do it again and again, and we're very grateful for your hearty efforts. Thank you so much. Subscribers to the Good Night Club.

Remember, you can subscribe. We will put up the QR codes again. Remember, this is always free for you.

We're just happy to be here together. It's a joy. And without any further blah blah ado from me, I gratefully hand the reins over to our steadfast master translator, Geshe Michael, and our steadfast someday soon master translator, but she's actually quite smart, Utpala.

Thank you, Ben. And I will turn it over to Venerable Utpala. Yay.

Yay. Good morning. Good afternoon.

Good evening. Good evening. So let's dive right in to...

Your homeworks are hard. Well, yeah, I'm sorry, but I think the text is hard. That's the issue.

Oh, wait till you see today. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. So can you see my screen?

Yes. Excellent. So this is the quiz for the class we had.

I'm looking over here because that's where your faces are, but I know there you are. Sorry. This is the quiz for the class we had last month on January 13th.

So it wasn't all that long ago. So hopefully... Mayankar.

Okay. Debating already. So if you recall, or as you recall, I should say, we are speaking the mind only school and how it takes the phrase non-duality.

What that means to them is that, for example, the thing perceived and the perceiver are the same substance. Remember? More or less.

One person shook their head. Yay. Okay.

So let's dive in. We only covered one stanza in this class, as you recall. But before we got to that stanza, we went into a verse that explained something.

So we'll just dive right in there. Okay. So how does or how did Arya Asanga explain the meaning of the phrase from the Mother Sutras, there's nothing?

So what is there's nothing in the second turning of the wheel of Lord Buddha? Like in the Heart Sutra, for example. What does Arya Asanga say from the mind only school perspective?

That there's nothing. What does that mean?

[Speaker 3]
There is nothing. That it's just not the same substance as the perceiver.

[Speaker 1]
Hasso said there's nothing that's not the same substance as the perceiver. Um, more specifically, I think it has to do with the naming process. Meaning that there's no natural relationship between a thing and the name we call that thing.

Okay. A rose by any other name. Okay.

Then we went into a little, we dug into a verse that was this poetry that included the lines, there is no concept seen, no bodhisattva seen. And that's how Lord Buddha taught phenomena are seen. Do you remember this?

Mm hmm. Hopefully you recall how it is that Je Tsongkapa clarified what, what this is talking about. Does anyone remember?

I think I do, but I don't, I, it's not my job. I don't do the homework. Yeah, you're exempt.

I see there's a bunch of people in chat, but when I'm in full screen, I can't see chat. So he said that not seeing the obscuring cover of mountains is said to be like making designations to see the sky. Oh, okay.

Thank you, Je Tsongkapa. Very clear now. So, an ordinary person looking up sees sky.

So what's the problem with that? With your mind only?

[Speaker 3]
They can't see it. They cannot see it.

[Speaker 1]
Stanley says you cannot see it. Okay, that, that's... Ash, can I try?

[Speaker 2]
Yes, please. We cannot see it because it's the obstacles by the five hips.

[Speaker 1]
It's like we, we, we, we see the mountain, but we cannot see the sky. Oh, we can see the mountain, can't we? Yeah, so when we don't see the mountain, we can see the sky, we're removing all the five hips.

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Anyone else want to give a shot?

[Speaker 3]
So I mean, an ordinary person, the problem is that they cannot, they, they get the obstacles from the five hips to see the real things.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, until we, we, we perceive the things in, in direct emptiness. Yeah. Okay, thank you.

Venerable Khadrin? Yeah, thank you. So, probably we cannot see sky because it's covered with mountains.

And if it's covered with mountains, and we don't think that seeing sky is...

[Speaker 2]
So, sorry, we don't think that when we see blue sky, it built from rocks, because mountains built from rocks, but mountain is covered sky. And this is the same, like we are looking at the sky, and we think that it made from atoms, but it's not.

[Speaker 1]
So it's just covered from, covered by atoms for us.

[Speaker 2]
We see it's like atoms, not see actually, but we, we think they're atoms. It's like mountains. We don't think that sky is built from rocks.

It's my understanding of last class.

[Speaker 1]
It has some interesting concepts in there that, that we talked about.

[Speaker 2]
The sky suggests that... Say again.

[Speaker 1]
The sky suggests...

[Speaker 2]
The sky is suggesting itself to you.

[Speaker 3]
Just being the sky.

[Speaker 1]
The sky suggests itself to you as the sky.

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you. So here's, here's what's going on from the Mind Only School perspective. They can see that what they're seeing is naturally sky, but there is no natural connection between the name and the thing named, and that is the inborn holding to the self-existence of things, according to the Mind Only School.

So that's the main problem. But also, they think they've seen something, as Venerable Codding was talking about. Got in, sorry.

But not only is sky not sky, naturally, sky is the absence of obstruction, nam kha, in Tibetan. It's a negative thing. So it's impossible that considering a negative thing as being an outside thing with physicality is inborn.

No one would automatically think that.

[Speaker 2]
I don't see work by you.

[Speaker 1]
That's something we get to chew on. So let's just jump to vocabulary, shall we? Please, can you give me the English equivalent of this phrase?

By the power of the way a thing naturally is? That's not bad. Yes.

Can you give me the Tibetan for this guy's system? Where's the shanky look? Not other guys.

Dude's look? Where's your dead ducky look? Some Tom look?

Inna, nice. And the English equivalent for this word, which we had newly last class. That's what I said, search for.

I did? Yeah. Close, close.

It's like to be calm. Locate. Someone said it, locate.

Yeah, I think so. So thank you and happy new year. Thank you for homework.

And now we go to, I do. Let me get that up. Where did you go?

Sorry. The runaway translation. Oh, it's hidden, that's why.

Your dog deleted it. Well, I don't have a dog, but. And if I did, he has no thumbs.

Do you want me to read it? Sure. Well, okay, let me read your translation.

And if you understand it, de shindu shen na, then you'll become an expert. I have a summary in the 8th chapter explaining the meaning of the meaning of moey. You cannot say no, so I can't even name the moey.

Okay. Okay. But if you don't understand it like that, then that's a great innovator's explanation.

Yeah, I like it. I think everything's fine. Right.

Let's go back up to your translation. Why did Geshe-la put in his notes this last part a pun on the whole thing? Well, because you're not going to...

it's talking about not being able to see. Yeah, good. Yeah, so get it?

So he says they don't understand not seeing this way, they don't understand not seeing this way, and if you don't understand that, you don't see anything. Okay, he's being cute. All right.

The tong, like tong lam, path of seeing, it's at the end. I had a big insight into this whole thing. I don't know, when I was asleep last night.

But what do you... Let's start with the mountain and the sky, okay? Yes, please.

Can I stop sharing now? Is there any more translation? No, you just wanted me to do that.

Okay, fine. Okay, that's fine. I had a...

we're about to... after how many years, two years or something, of struggling with very exotic points about the mind-only school, he's about to explain the mind-only school in like two pages. And he's explaining the three qualities of the mind...

he'll start to explain it now. And I suddenly had an insight that this whole thing about seeing the sky, if you don't see the mountain, is the three qualities of the mind-only school. Can you take a shot at what...

how the three qualities are there in the metaphor of trying to see the sky, but having to stop seeing the mountain to see the sky?

[Speaker 2]
Now, kunta means the...

[Speaker 1]
Shenwang. And then... Kunta.

Yonggu. Yeah. Shenwang is the thing out there that is actually created by causes.

Kunta is the fact that you call it the sky or the mountain or whatever. That would be the observation. And the lack thereof would be yonggu.

Yeah, nice. Did you hear a word? No.

You could take the sky as emptiness, right? You could take the mountain as kunta. Things that are not really there that seem to be there.

And if you can cancel the kunta, then you can see the sky. You see what I mean? If you cancel kuntas on top of shenwangs, then you can see yongdrups.

And suddenly I realized that's what they're talking about. The mountain is kuntak. And they do seem like mountains.

The things you think are there which are not there are huge. And then when you realize... For example, a blue that could be outside in this school.

Blue that could be outside. That's the mountain. A blue which could be outside is the mountain.

And when you realize it's not there, you see emptiness. And that's the sky. You see what I mean?

It's very beautiful.

[Speaker 2]
What's the shenwang?

[Speaker 1]
I don't know what's the shenwang. Maybe, I don't know. Maybe it's the person looking.

But it's very interesting to me.

[Speaker 2]
Go ahead.

[Speaker 1]
No, please. Go ahead. Oh, well, I was going to do the denomang.

Then he says you can't see a bodhisattva. What would that mean if it's the same parallel thing going on with the three qualities of the mind-only school? That the bodhisattva is a kuntak.

Good, yeah. The perception of who you are is a wrong impression. And then the absence of that is emptiness.

So when he says you can't see the bodhisattva, or you can't see the mountain, when you stop seeing the mountain, you see the sky. When you stop seeing the bodhisattva, you see the emptiness of the bodhisattva. That's why they're using this section.

That's why they're using this section. I just figured it out like last night. Anyway, what were you going to say before I interrupted you?

Well, I was sort of wondering if that the mountain was the shen wang, and that the mountain is the kuntak. It could be that, yeah. Yeah, we have trouble finding a shen wang here, personally.

The kuntak, yeah, that's fine. Maybe we'll get there. But when you stop seeing the mountain, you see what's real.

Yeah, yeah. That's the idea. And that's what it means when you don't see a bodhisattva also.

When the bodhisattva stops seeing the bodhisattva, they see emptiness of the bodhisattva. So the bodhisattva that the bodhisattva thinks is there is not there. And when you stop seeing that, you see the real nature of the bodhisattva.

See what I mean? Like the sky and the mountain. It's cool.

Because he goes right into the Three Qualities of the Mind-Only School. That's what we're going to cover today. And by the way, it's cruelty to present it two years later.

No, I mean, he gave very complex arguments about the Three Qualities, and he didn't tell us what they were. And everything's backwards. And now he's at the end of the discussion.

And by the way, we're not far from the Holy Land, which is the Middle Way. Are you Nagarjuna's point of view? We're about to slip into the Middle Way, which is going to be boring for you guys compared to this, because it's something you've been fed for 20, 30 years.

You're just going to hear the same usual beautiful stuff. You know, when you hit the Middle Way stuff, it's going to be, you could write it yourself. But we're about to hit it after two, three years of work, okay?

The quizzes will be easy, in other words. Not your quizzes. All right.

Thank you for... Did you have a translation? Or no, that was it.

Yeah, okay. Okay, all right. Thank you.

Let's see. Let me see. Oh, this is Seiji's book.

Yeah, it's really amazing. Let's see. Sorry.

Let's get this here. Okay. Internet, let's do that.

Oops. Section 365. Okay.

Is that right? Yeah. Yeah, so we're on page 21b.

We're going to hit Middle Way on 24 in three more pages, and then it's going to be boring. Okay. Yeah, and we finally get the definitions of the three qualities that would have been helpful a long time ago.

All right. I want to say some note here. Let me see.

Yeah, somewhere he says here, we have some kind of... Let me see. YANG LDAG PA'I RJES SU MA MTHONG ZHES SOGS KYI DUS DE'I DUS DE'I DANG DGE SDONG DUR TSUL Somehow these two books, which is THEG DUS, Mahayana Sangraha, and DGE SDONG, which is the 8000 Verses on the Perfection of Wisdom, somehow they are going to collaborate.

DUS DUR means they're going to work together. Oh, so it's not a misspelling. I thought it was a misspelling of DUS.

No, I don't think it is. Yeah, I don't think it is. Yeah, I don't think it is.

But yeah, there's the... So I went to the 8000 Verses to see if there was a similar language going on. And there is.

And here it is, here. You might want to have someone read Venerable Upala. This line here.

So I went to the 8000 Verses because supposedly it's talking about this same point. And we're going to have to have a footnote according to the Mixed Nuts standards. Okay, great.

Please have someone read this one. Venerable Chundsam, could you please read?

[Speaker 3]
DE NAS BYUNG RGYUN DE LA SRED DANG BSTAN PA RAB BYUR GYI MDI'I KHAS BYAS SU MTHU Okay, cool.

[Speaker 1]
So the point is, someone's talking to the conqueror. Who's that? Subhuti.

Oh, Subhuti. Venerable Subhuti. RAB BYUR.

It's Subhuti, who is the hero of the Diamond Cutter Sutra. And some people say a Buddha in disguise himself asking these questions. Okay, so he...

This is, in my opinion, this is where he's talking about from the 8000 Verses, okay? And who do you want to read this quotation? I would like Venerable Chundsam to continue because that was really short.

[Speaker 3]
BYUNG RGYUN DE BYANG CHUB SEMS PAS MING DGANG LAS PA'AN DI NYID BDAG GIS MA SOGS BSAL MA MIG YANG DAG PA BYAS SU MI MTHUNG NO Good, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Oh conqueror, I don't see the MING of the BYANG CHUB SEMS PAS. What's that? Same in Chinese.

I don't see the NING, Bodhisattva. Yeah, whatever it may be. DGANG LAGS PA means whatever it may be.

LAGS PA is an ancient word for YOD PA. Okay, so whatever it may be. I don't see it.

By the way, this is the LAG in Geshe-la. Your is-ness. Okay, when you say Geshe-la, it's Geshe-lag.

Okay, it's an ancient word for is. The big is, okay. BYANG CHUB SEMS PAS means whatever it may be.

That, BDAG GIS MA TSAL, what's TSAL mean? Like chucked cell. Yeah, I don't find anything there.

Okay, when I look for the name of the Bodhisattva, I don't find anything. MA MIG Yeah, it doesn't exist. Okay, and I don't, MTHUNG, I don't see it.

BYAS SU MA MTHUNG means I can't perceive it there. Okay, if it's talking about the three qualities of the mind-only school, what's it mean? Yeah, I don't see the Kuntak part of the Bodhisattva.

Therefore, I see the true nature of the Bodhisattva. Okay, so when he says MING here, name of the Bodhisattva, he's talking somehow about the deceptive nature of the Bodhisattva. And I don't see it.

Meaning, I see who the Bodhisattva really is. Because I don't see who they're not. Got it?

And that's the three qualities of mind-only school. I don't see Kuntak, which is the fake Bodhisattva. And because I don't see the fake Bodhisattva, I see the emptiness of the Bodhisattva.

Which means I really see the Bodhisattva. Cool? So then the 8,000 verses and the Mahayana Sangraha by Asanga, he says DUN DUR means they are working towards the same idea.

Okay, cool. There's the quotation from the 8,000 verses. What did you search for?

What did I search for? That's a good question. I don't remember.

You talked? Yeah, probably. But I do these exotic proximity searches.

So, God bless Gopher. May Ben Kramer always keep it in the world. All right.

Who's going to read Venerable Upali? Venerable Kaving, please. Good morning, thank you.

Oh, there you are. Nice. So here begins what?

The description of the three parts. Yeah, here begins the description of the three qualities of the mind-only school. How many pages?

We are 275 pages, English pages, into the text. And now he gives us what he should have given us on the first page. Okay, and maybe there's some sense to that.

Probably, you know, you're going to remember because you were so confused before. Really. So, I don't know.

You got to write him a letter and ask him why. Okay. GZHAN GYI DBANG means what?

Well, things. Things that are under the power of other things. Yeah, changing things, or produce things.

Things that are created by causes. KUN LTAG GYI SDOG PA'I ZHI They are the thing that KUN LTAG refers to. Okay.

Changing things are what are misunderstood. And KUN LTAG is the misunderstanding you have about them. So when you divide the three qualities of the mind-only school, you have changing things, then you have a wrong idea about them.

And the fact that the wrong idea is wrong is their emptiness, their YONG DROG. Okay. Okay, KUN LTAG GYI SDOG PA'I Those of you who went to hear Geshe Dutta Rinchen in 1998, this is all familiar to you.

DBANG GIS KUN LTAG GYI SDOG PA'I ZHI DANG YONG DROG KYI CHOS CHEN What's that mean? It's about what the computation turns out to be. Yeah, it's the thing which possesses YONG DROG.

It's what KUN LTAG seemed to apply to, and it is what YONG DROG applies to. Meaning, it's the thing which is empty. Okay, so if you want to define changing things in the mind-only school, they are the thing that was misunderstood with KUN LTAG, and they are the thing which is empty of KUN LTAG.

Cool? All right. They're kind of like the basis.

All right. CHOS CHEN YIN LA And can you give me an example? Somebody says, can you give me an example of a GZHAN DBANG?

And he says what?

[Speaker 2]
Sure, everything.

[Speaker 1]
Not exactly.

[Speaker 2]
Every working thing.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, every functioning thing. Everything that does something. Now finally he's giving us a standard galupa.

Here's the definition. Here's the divisions. Here's the GZHAN YIN.

And that's like, I don't know, super super classic sentence. Very very important. I don't think you ever see it, but it should be carved on word's door.

Who's going to read, Utpala? Andriana, would you like to read please? Probably really good from her trip.

[Speaker 2]
DENG NI MI GYU GAN CHEN LA RAG LAS BA'I WANG GI ZHUNG WA Nice.

[Speaker 1]
You want to translate, Venerable Utpala? So the definition, the other factor, depending on other factors, oh, it comes about through the power of other factors. Yeah, past tense.

Something which has come about. Yeah, something which has come about through the power of depending on causes and conditions. Yeah, and there's the GZHAN DBANG.

Okay, GZHAN DBANG. And he's making a pun. Okay, GZHAN DBANG, changing things, means they have occurred through the power, DBANG, of other causes and conditions.

Okay, that's the definition of GZHAN DBANG. It would have been really nice at the beginning of the book. Yeah.

And here's a kind of a controversial division, and this, again, he's doing typical Gelugpa thing, define it, give an example, explain the name, give the divisions. Okay, so who's going to read that, Venerable Utpala? Maria?

Maria. Nestra? Thank you.

YENA. YENA.

[Speaker 3]
YENA, DEG CHEN BAG PA'I BYAS DU BDAG PA, JIGS BSTAN PA'I DGE SHES BTA' BU BDAG PA GZHAN DBANG DANG, SOGS KYIS YANG BDAG MA YIN GUNG RTOGS BTA' BU MA BDAG GZHAN DBANG GNYIS SO Lovely.

[Speaker 1]
Nice reading. So Venerable Utpala, he's dividing all GZHAN DBANGS into BDAG PA GZHAN DBANGS and MA BDAG PA GZHAN DBANGS. What's that mean?

I guess pure changing things, impure changing things. Yeah, changing things which are pure, and changing things which are impure. Okay, all right.

Or produced things, let's say produced things which are pure, and produced things which are impure. So what's his example of a pure GZHAN DBANGS? DEG CHEN BAG PA'I BYAS DU BDAG PA, YES SHES, basically.

It's the... oh my goodness, it's an Arya of the Middle Way. No, Greater Way.

Wisdom in the Mind? Yeah, Greater Way, DEG CHEN. Yeah.

Go ahead. Go ahead. The Wisdom in the Mind of an Arya of the Greater Way?

Yep. But it's RJES THORB, it's not NGON GSUNGS. It's...

it's... I don't know how you do that.

[Speaker 2]
Subsequent...

[Speaker 1]
Subsequent, yeah. Subsequent to the direct perception emptiness. So they come out, and they are still fooled, but they don't believe it.

Their perceptions are fooled, but they don't believe it. So they still see things... they still see the pen as if the pen were coming from the pen, but they don't believe it anymore.

They know they're crazy. That's a big advance. When you know you're crazy, you've made some progress.

So... Yeah, and then he calls it RJIGS BSTAN PA'I YESHES, which means they have an understanding, but it's almost worldly now, because they are no longer in the direct perception emptiness. So we call it worldly.

They have a pure worldly perception following their direct perception emptiness. But they are still misled by the object, but they don't believe it anymore. If you ask them, they'll say, the pen comes from me, but I have to admit it doesn't look that way to me right now.

Like that. So that's the first kind of... out of all the shenwongs in the universe, which are countless, he picks that one as being what we call a pure shenwong.

That's a pure shenwong. What's an impure shenwong? SO SO SKYE BA Any old person, any old ordinary person.

Yeah, and their KUN TOG without an S. Their misunderstanding. Yeah, their imagination of the world, their delusion of the world.

Is it a shenwong?

[Speaker 2]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it's produced by other things. Is it pure? No.

No. Okay, got it? That's all.

And it's very odd that he should divide all shenwongs into those two. It's extremely odd. It's not even a physical thing.

99% of our world is physical, and it's causing... And then here he's choosing two states of mind to make a division of all shenwongs. It's weird.

It's quite unusual. Got it? Good?

He should have divided things into physical and mental or something like that, right? Doesn't it make sense? Because the cessation that an Aryan has of seeing things as being self-existent, isn't that called the...

I don't know. As opposed to the inbun, is it the KUN TOG? GZHAN GYIS KUN TOG.

Different meaning of KUN TOG. But it's interesting. I don't think it's going there.

But I understand. KUN TOG can also mean learned. When you're talking about kinds of ignorance, actually.

We didn't hear what he said. Word was saying, I wonder if it relates to the division into KUN TOG and GZHAN GYIS. Which is...

That KUN TOG means learned later in life, as opposed to inborn. And it's typically applied to... After you grow up, you join a religion, for example, which says that everything came from, I don't know, a big pizza in the sky or something.

And then you... It's a learned wrong idea, as opposed to a natural wrong idea. But I don't think it so much relates here.

Yeah, okay. Has he then... Is it related to the mind-only school not accepting external objects, that he's just divided all changing reality into two states of mind?

I don't... Oh yeah, that could be. That could be.

But that's a nice way to explain why he might use that. Still, it's a fascinating choice of GZHAN DBANGS. Why he would divide...

What was it? GZHAN ZHIG was it? No, it was...

Yeah, classical. Oh, when he gave a division. Divisions are two kinds.

One which is exhaustive, and one which is not. Okay. I kind of guess this one's not.

The division into changing and unchanging is exhaustive. It covers all entities. But the division into a state of mind which is pure, and a state of mind which is impure, does not in any way cover all changing things.

It's a strange division. It's two states of mind. Isn't he saying pure GZHAN DBANG and impure GZHAN?

You could say that, but it still doesn't, for example, address physical things. But he's just giving two examples to pure GZHAN and impure GZHAN. It would have to be that.

It would have to be that. But still it's odd. Normally when you give divisions they are exhaustive.

In this section, when you're explaining what I believe, it's more normal to divide everything. Like when you divide all changing things, it's in physical, mental, and which is not. That's exhaustive.

It covers all changing things. What if we say pure and impure of the GZHAN? You could say that.

You could say that. I wonder where physical stuff would be. What is it that you could say?

Stanley says you could argue that this is an exhaustive division if it says all the things which are GZHAN DBANG and pure, and all the things which are GZHAN DBANG and impure. Then the two examples happen to both be physical. Mental, sorry.

Okay. Who's going to read the next part? Rebecca, please.

Hello.

[Speaker 2]
KUN DAG NI BDAG ZHI SO BAR GZHAN DBANG YI TENG DU THOGS PA'I THAG PA TZAM STE ZAN ZHI NI CI TSEN THAMS CAD YIN LA Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. To me this is controversial in itself. KUN DAG means imaginary stuff that you thought was there that wasn't there, which is the mountain and the bodhisattva.

Or a blue which is not born inside your refrigerator. That's KUN DAG. What the KUN DAG applies to, so what the misperception applies to, is normally GZHAN DBANGs.

We misunderstand things that are produced by causes and conditions. So BDAG ZHI means what does the KUN DAG attach to? What is the misperception attached to?

What is it attached to? Normally we say all things which have causes and conditions is what the misperception is attached to. Got it?

But here he says the main thing that the misperception is attached to is GZHAN DBANGs. That's correct. That's correct.

And that's the normal presentation. What I like to call the equation of the Minoli school. Take GZHAN DBANGs, subtract the KUN DAGS that we tend to lay on them, and you arrive at equals emptiness.

In this school. Now there's a controversial word here. What do you think is bothering me in the first line?

It's ZOR. Yeah, ZOR. Mainly.

As if there's something else? Yeah, that's the point. I'll say it again.

He says imaginary things, which means wrong ideas about something, that it could be outside. For example, the blue could be outside. The fact that the blue is outside applies to the blue.

That's a non-existent fact. When you see it's not there, you see emptiness. That's the Minoli school's equation.

Then he says misperceptions in the Minoli school apply mainly to changing things. Like skies. What else is left?

Skies, just nothing. Could you have a misperception about empty space? Yeah, I think that's good.

That covers the mainly. You could also have... What about just thoughts or ideas?

Or emotions? Those are all Shenron. I think Stanley's example is probably the only one.

Empty space? Yeah, or something similar. Or emptiness.

You could have a wrong idea about emptiness. That's a little exotic. You would have to say that the belief that a word, that a name belongs to a thing.

Right? Is a kunta placed on a kunta? You could say that.

Maybe. Okay, tsor shen wang gi ten du. dopay dak sam here means what?

Venerable Upala. By the way, it's not what it means in the Middle Way. Well, it's merely labeled through the idea.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, it's just made up.

[Speaker 1]
It's just made up by your mistaken ideas. dopay here without the S means just your fantasy or something. Okay?

The fact that blue could be outside is just made up by some imagination. Okay? Got it?

Now, by the way, he's mushing together what would normally be split up. I was lazy to split them all up, but normally you have sen yi, and then you have sen shi, and you have ye wa. What's the classical example of a kunta?

In this sentence. What's the classical example of a kunta? So it would be every archetype.

Yeah. Any archetype. Any general.

To appreciate that, you have to go back to whose text? Adam's text. Adam's text, yay!

Any general category is an example of a conceptual thing and not a real thing. Something like that. These are all interesting takes on...

This is not a normal presentation of the Maitreya School. He's going deeper. Okay.

Who's going to read next? Venerable Upala. Hold on here.

Nur, could you please read? Okay, going once. Twice.

Three times. Venerable Sunam, could you read, please? Tang Tang, could you read, please?

[Speaker 2]
Yes. Great, thank you.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you. Nice. Trang nge nam je.

What's that? Well, that means he's going to go now and talk about the book that his teacher, Je Tsongkapa, wrote called The Essence of Eloquence, Art of Interpretation. It's kind of nice to see someone quote their teacher's book, which, by the way, if you're trying to establish timelines, is very helpful.

It means that if you can figure out when Trang nge nam je was written, you would know that this was written later, for example, and that it must have been written quite a while before because it had already been carved or something. That it was already available? Something like that.

So, that book by his teacher, mambo shik, many of these, a good number, a good number of these, cannot be established through what? Names and terms? Names and mental image.

Good. So there are things which exist, but which cannot be established through names. But, in the same moment, we have to say, they are not rang gi tse ni kyi druppa.

They do not exist by definition. Yeah. In fact, they are tokpay takpa.

Yeah, they are creations of ideas or creations of imagination. I just point out the spelling of takpa here. Even Je Tsongkapa, in my opinion, sometimes there's trouble with this spelling.

You might want to see why he used this takpa, because takpa is the past tense of ndokpa, which means to label something. But, brtakpa with an R, B-R-T-A-G-S, means to examine something. They are different verbs.

And the Sanskrit is different. And they mix them up. They tend to mix them up.

Okay. Yeah. I think it's purposeful in here because I'm paying attention, and previously he did use the B-R, and then when he started speaking about the definition of kundakpa as a thing to put on the dakshin, he switched to this.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Let's see. We're going to go look at the quotation itself. Okay.

Ready? What did he say? He said, this is Je Tsongkapa...

Yeah, I don't suggest he made a mistake here. I just mean he's not precise with it, in general, in his writing. And maybe it's the carvers, we don't know.

But he said it here, Tsongkapa means it without the R, because it means labeled with an imagination or something like that. So it's spelled correctly here. Okay.

Okay. I thought it might help you to understand this quotation and translate it more accurately if you got a sentence in front of it and a sentence after it. In my opinion, you could translate it more accurately.

Okay. So we're going to switch over to Tsongkapa's famous book on the art of interpretation. And we're going to just read a few sentences before that quotation and after that quotation.

You ready? Yes. Who's going to read?

Bertha, could you read or are you translating? She's translating. She's translating.

Inna? Inna's translating. Same.

Tracy.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you. Okay. Chir kun tak la chi ten, tam che dang nam ka la sok pa, du ma chik yu kyang, gong dre le ma sung pa ni.

[Speaker 1]
Lovely, thank you. I don't know what happened Tracy, but whatever pill you took, please share it with other people. Chir kun tak la This is an idea.

Kun tak means conceptions. And it doesn't have to mean a wrong conception. So kun taks are divided into kun taks which are real things and kun taks which are not real things.

Just so you know, it just means conceptual things. In general it means conceptual things. And there are kun taks which do exist in this school.

And they're kind of like... I think you could say they are unchanging things. You see, because where are you going to put, in the three characteristics of the mind-only school, where are you going to put unchanging things that really do exist?

Like space or something. Like empty space. Where are you going to put them in those three categories?

You can't put them into shen wangs. That's things with conditions. They are not emptiness.

So they have to go into kun tak. So then kun tak doesn't mean non-existent imaginary thing. It means imaginary thing.

And there are existing ones and non-existing ones. The non-existing ones are gak ja. A blue which could exist outside.

Something which has to mean a name which always means the same thing to everybody. Those are kun taks that don't exist. But there are kun taks that do exist.

And he names the two main ones here. Chi tsens in general. All categories.

All categories. All conceptual categories. Like things.

Quote things. Especially when you do this. That's a sign of a chi tsen.

Things. And by the way, coffee cups. Coffee cup is a changing thing.

Coffee cup is a chi tsen. And it's a kun tak. And it's an unchanging thing.

Imaginary unchanging thing that's real. It really does exist. The category of all coffee cups exists.

So he says, throw into the kun tak all the chi tsens there are, which do exist. The names of categories. Cups.

Fish. Colors. And then let's throw in there nam ka.

Space and all the rest. And the others. So he says, look, there's lots of stuff that goes into the category of kun tak, or imaginary thing, which does exist.

But, do de gong rel, which is what? What I really meant. The sutra called what I really meant in my sutra.

And the name is misleading because when you see a name of a book called what the sutras really mean, you imagine it could not have been written by the author, the Buddha. Because he spoke the sutras. He doesn't explain the sutras.

If you explain the sutras, it must be a shastra. So it must be some Indian pundit. But this one book is called what I really meant when I taught the sutras, and it's spoken by Lord Buddha.

And it's the one which lays out the mind only school. So he says, why? Here's the cool question.

Why are the kun taks, which do exist, not treated in that book? Why didn't he mention them in that sutra where he explained all his sutras? Where he basically laid out the three turnings of the wheel.

But why didn't he mention those kun taks? And why were you guys so desensitized to kun taks that do exist before we mentioned it this morning? Why?

And then he says, here we go. dun dun dun dun dun Which is a good place to start? No.

Yes. We've got one minute. Okay, go.

Venerable Pabongka Rinpoche. I'm just going to read it. Yes.

kun tak gang gi tongpa yang druk druk pey kap su de dak mi go way so What's ko-wa mean? Necessary? Yeah, necessary.

Oftentimes it means the supplies you need on a trip. Necessities. And he says, when you're establishing the meaning of yang druk, emptiness in the mind-only school, and you're trying to describe it as the...

By the way, if you don't spell it right here, it doesn't make any sense. If you explain emptiness in the mind-only school as the absence of something, you don't want to use kun taks which actually do exist. You don't need them.

They are totally unnecessary in this discussion. When you're describing emptiness as the absence of some fake stuff, you shouldn't bring up the labeled stuff which is not fake, which means space and chi sens. Cool?

They're not necessary for the discussion. Cool? They don't help.

In fact, they would cause you trouble because you need... When you're talking about emptiness, when you're talking about what emptiness is empty of, you got dang... better be talking about something which is impossible.

And space is not impossible. And categories are not impossible. Cool?

But they are kun tak. They are imaginary things. But they're real.

Some imaginary things are real. Cool? Got it?

You okay?

[Speaker 2]
Who's saying this?

[Speaker 1]
Je Tsongkapa. Then he goes into the quotation that Khenpo used. But to me, you need the context.

I don't think you can really... The quotation is not delicious unless you hear what he said before that. What he said after that is going to be translated by Venerable Utpala and it's equally sexy.

[Speaker 2]
Yay!

[Speaker 1]
And just the big letters here. What is it, the tenth? Yeah.

Okay, good. I'm sorry, but by saying just the big letters, do you mean not to translate chi rolla tupe, etc.? Oh yeah, I do mean to translate that, yeah.

Okay. The bulb, I'll say the bulb. Okay, thank you.

Okay, good. You, Venerable Utpala, are going to lead a discussion on what we heard today, which might possibly help us in our real life. And then at 9.15, we have a very amazing interview with two high DCI officials. Okay. Wonderful. Okay, so we've talked about, somehow...

We talked about that if you don't understand that you cannot see a bodhisattva and you cannot see the name bodhisattva, then you will not see the greater way. And then we talked about... Let's see.

We started talking about the three qualities of the mind-only school, right? Things created by causes, shen wangs, our misunderstandings about them, kun taks. And then yong druk, when we dissolve that misunderstanding and see what's really there.

And we talked about how kun taks are of two types, those which do exist and those which do not. I'm thinking this whole thing about canceling something which is not real to get to emptiness, right? Canceling something which is not real to get to emptiness.

If you think of the mind-only school in the six flavors of emptiness, do you remember? We've been focusing on blue as being empty of being outside. We've been focusing on the color blue as being empty of the kun tak, of being outside object, right?

But there's another big theme in the mind-only school which we cover in the six flavors of emptiness, that things are empty of having to be referred to with the name they are given. Oh shoot, you froze there. Could you say that again?

Things are empty of having to be referred to with the name they are given. And the opposite of that is a rose by any other name would be the same. The mind-only school is big on how things are not really outside objects.

And they're also big on how names don't apply to things automatically. And I wonder if anybody could, if you guys could talk about the second kind of emptiness, which kind of doesn't get the credit that it should. I think sometimes people, they're always bringing up the blue and the other guy always gets ignored.

The name thing, the rose thing, always gets ignored. So what are the practical applications of those two? If I follow the mind-only school on those two points, how does it make my life easier?

Right. I have a great example to maybe kick it off. So I was traveling with a friend of mine who happens to be a great practitioner and we had car troubles.

And so we pull off to the side of the road and we're looking, put up the hood. We're looking at the engine and this part is that part and all that. And then he looked and went beyond the label of things and was able to use things in a way that didn't fit their name.

And I can't remember exactly what it was, but he took things that were there for other purposes and made them work to allow the car to function. But if you had been stuck saying, this thing only does this. Yeah.

Cool. Yeah, good. Nice.

Yeah, I think that's a sign of innovation. When you go beyond the name and you can use something for a purpose that it wasn't designed for. That's cool.

Do people have other kinds of ideas? So basically you use the name in a different way. Radically different name.

Radically different way.

[Speaker 2]
I think a lot about the way... Oh, please, boss.

[Speaker 1]
I was just going to point out that her classes tend to create these big silences. Dr. Kramer, go ahead. I was just thinking, I think a lot about the way when we walk into a room or we meet a new person, we have a tendency to look to what we like or what we don't like automatically and quickly jump to, I like this place or I don't like this place.

This is a good place or a bad place. I see it a lot in yoga classes. Of course, you come in, this is a good yoga class, this is a bad yoga class, this room is too hot.

Or then there are the weird people who like hot yoga and the room is just so delightfully hot for them, especially when it's getting cold. You see it's snowing out here now. Which is one of the only good reasons to do hot yoga.

The practice of gratitude, the practice, and I think I referred to this in the last class, but there are limitless applications to coffee meditation. The practice of reviewing what is beautiful, the wonderful things that you've achieved, but also what is beautiful in other people, also what's beautiful around you. The practice of noting all the beautiful things that you see, even just intentionally, eventually creates these patterns in us, plants these seeds in us, brings us back to noticing what is beautiful.

From the world side, in and of itself, out there, is it really beautiful or not beautiful? You can't answer a question like that, but you can't help it. You walk into a room and you see it as beautiful or not beautiful.

You will see it as beautiful or not beautiful, and you can let that happen accidentally by whatever went on in your life or lives previously, or you can train the mind, and all you have to do is notice one beautiful thing and another beautiful thing and another beautiful thing, and before you know it, accidentally you run around thinking the world is an utter paradise, when of course it isn't really.

You won't mind one bit the paradise that you are helpless but to perceive. That's cool. Except I wouldn't say that's not accidental.

That sounds purposeful to me. I'm opting for that way. I'm saying you can do it on purpose instead.

[Speaker 2]
Our normal mode is just like, well, I walk into the room and let's see, what is it really?

[Speaker 1]
And then you have this sort of accidental right from whatever you did. I always think of planting seeds in, before we know about seeds, I always think of planting seeds as driving a car. Oh, wow.

Look at that. Yay. I always think of planting a seed.

I know, I guess. What happens if I pick my nose? It's like driving a car.

Your hands are duct taped to the wheel, and you're blindfolded, and you just keep running into things, and you don't know that you're driving the car, and this is our entire set of lives or lifetime, before we know about seeds, before you even know you're driving the car. So it's great news. You might not be great at driving the day you find out you're driving, but at least you know you're driving, and you can start to try for a change.

Yeah. Thank you, Ben. Thank you.

Tracy, you have your hand up.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah. The other day after yoga class, I decided after working on the channels to go for a walk, and I've heard in the past, Geshe-la and Earl talk about ice on the tree branches. So I was walking, and it's the first time I ever witnessed melting of tree branches, and it became a song.

Like it was sound of ice falling from the branches, and I was walking along thinking, wow, this is so magical, and then all of a sudden I heard all this noise from the ice, and it kind of scared me, and then I looked up, and there was a miniature flip-flop in the tree, and I was like, wow, trees are like, flip-flops are supposed to be on your feet, but why is that one on the branch?

[Speaker 2]
And it had a load of flower in the little foot piece. So then I was like, this is magical, and I'm walking along.

[Speaker 1]
All of a sudden I see this huge dog.

[Speaker 3]
His muscles had muscles, and I froze. I was like, and he literally, the owner ran to him, caught him, and he didn't bite me or anything. So then I was like, whoa.

So then I realized what was weird that felt like was happening. The ice freezing, melting, me seeing a dog, freezing, and then the breath. And so then I realized the inside and the outside, and labeling things and not labeling things, and just kind of like letting go and finding joy.

It was like a weird, magical moment. So I don't know if any of this makes sense, but it was just kind of designed to like look at things and what's happening.

[Speaker 1]
And then at the end of the day, I realized, wow, I must have been kind to somebody because the dog didn't bite me. Great. Thank you.

Christina, I noticed you wrote something in the chat. Do you want to speak?

[Speaker 3]
Am I able to, can you hear me? Yes. Oh, great.

No, I was just thinking, you know, we talk about renunciation all the time. And if you look at the etymology of that word, renuncio, it means to restate. So I was thinking, based on this discussion, that maybe since we don't actually see things, which are not self-existent, maybe we see rods and shapes and colors.

Why do we have to name them in certain ways based on what we just learned? Why don't we name them as something like Tracy just said? Totally perfect.

You know, not a fierce dog, but a projection of our imaginations, which we then turn into something utterly perfect and certainly not harmful. Just a new way of thinking of renounce. That's cool.

Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
And it's like, what, how can we label something in a way such that it benefits us? I mean, ultimately in our practice to be able to serve all people. But then even just conventionally speaking, you know, how can I get my car to work again?

[Speaker 3]
Yes. Rename it as something beneficial for you. For instance, if your car is broken, don't look at it as a broken car.

Look at it as a wonderful opportunity to teach you patience. That's one. That's another possible thing.

Yeah. Well, you just rename it, right? You rename it.

It's not a problem. It's never a problem. You rename it as something helpful to your practice.

[Speaker 2]
Right.

[Speaker 3]
Great.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you, Christina. And thank you everyone for your attention and your participation. And think about these things.

And then we'll meet again next month and have a wonderful quiz about this.

[Speaker 2]
I didn't get that. Could you try again?

[Speaker 1]
Thank you so much. Gisha, Michael. Thank you.

Paula. Remember everybody. It is still possible to sign up for the good night club.

You don't need to, to be here. We're very happy to have everyone come for free. It's wonderful to spend time together.

Those of you who would like to subscribe. For the opportunity to receive books, the lease bag, and whatever other upcoming perks we can offer for your subscriptions. You are able to do so still.

Many of you have, most of you have already subscribed. It's wonderful, but we always want to extend that opportunity. And thank you so much for your participation.

And then it does look like Daniel Garcia is standing by and ready to. Receive our attention for the peach tree world news. This is my understanding.

Daniel. As you have a very special interview for us today. Yes, we have with us some DCI big shots who we are all very excited to find out about.

I guess Michael's very happy to have them here in Rimrock. So I'd like to introduce, actually, I'm also getting to know them, but this is Anna and this is Igor. And so I'd like to basically ask you to please introduce yourselves a little bit to me and to everyone that's watching, just maybe a little bit about yourself.

Thank you.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you so much for having us here.

[Speaker 3]
Thank you. So let's say that. I saw in the past, we will organize it or get your Michael's events in Ukraine and Kiev.

Since 2011, when he first time came to Europe. And after that, when they moved to Canada in 2017, Geshe-la asked us, okay, guys, so you for many years, you've organized all the offline DCI events. And so now, you know about how the communication between the DCI and the organizers should be.

So please come and help us to improve this communication. And so it was a big honor for us to come. And now we are a small part of the big team of the DCI-G.

And our goal in DCI-G is to help the organizers to receive all the materials in time. And we are responsible for all the communications. Our main goal is just to listen for their complaints.

Nice.

[Speaker 1]
Great. Well, that's very important. That's awesome.

And so then you said 2011 was your first time studying with Geshe-la? Yeah. And where was that?

[Speaker 3]
In Kyiv.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. So that's where you lived, you said, until 2017.

[Speaker 2]
2017. Yeah. And there was a story, by the way, about Geshe-la and our moving to Canada.

At some point, we applied for the permanent residency in Canada. And the wait time was just huge. We were waiting and waiting and waiting.

Nothing happens. And then Geshe-la was in Kyiv.

[Speaker 3]
And just from the stage, he said, well, I will say the special prayer so that Igor and Nana don't move to Canada soon. And so the wait time increased for, how many, two or three years?

[Speaker 2]
About three years more.

[Speaker 3]
Seriously, we couldn't get any response from the immigration service. It was like crazy. And then, yeah.

Thank you. Apparently, Geshe-la said, okay, now you can move.

[Speaker 1]
So then your first event, obviously, you were students. You showed up in 2011 to study. No, actually, we were like a co-organizer.

Okay. Okay. You organized that event and you were already running as organizers from the very beginning.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah. Okay. We were organized from the very beginning, from 2011 to 2017.

So when we moved to Canada, we still finished the last event. Like it was advanced level. It was, it was level seven.

Yeah. Igor was going back and forth to Ukraine to help the organization.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. That's awesome. Okay.

So, so then, as I understand, 2011 was when you first organized. I mean, you must have known of Geshe Michael before that. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
It has all started with Igor. Yeah. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
How long did you know about Geshe Michael before you actually became an organizer? About the half of the year. Oh, that's right.

It was also very interesting. I always think it's an interesting story, how you can go from sitting in the class and listening to suddenly, you know, getting the inspiration to be an organizer. It usually has something to do with Geshe Michael recognizing something in you and then pulling it out of you.

[Speaker 2]
The Diamond Cutter book made it all. You know, just reading this.

[Speaker 3]
Long story short, I was sitting in my office one day in 2010, immediately after I became in bankruptcy, completely bankruptcy. And I'm sitting in a small office, after having like about 700 employees, I have like just 20 in a small company. And I was sitting and one of my friends came and he asked me, okay, he was just passing the key and I will come to drink some tea.

And he came and asked, what do you think about? How was your life? And he asked, you know, that I could not like make relations with my efforts and results.

So sometimes I work no money. So sometimes I work a lot of, doesn't work a lot of money.

[Speaker 1]
And so I don't know how to do my business. After 15 years of doing business and become bankruptcy, I don't know how to further.

[Speaker 3]
And after that, he just pull out, like print it from the internet, the Diamond Cutter book, and connect it with Stapler and say, okay, please read this.

[Speaker 1]
Probably you will find answers. And I read them. And immediately after it was, I just swallowed this book and I was so amazed and enjoyed that.

Immediately after that, suddenly I know that Geshe-la is going to Kiev.

[Speaker 3]
Just at half hour, half of the year after that.

[Speaker 1]
And of course I am right in that approach. So you serendipitously found out Geshe-la was coming to Kiev after having been inspired by the book?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Wow.

[Speaker 1]
Sounds like you had some ripenings. That's amazing. Cool.

And so, so then as I understand your, your main job is to work with Geshe-la and Seiji for DCI Global, helping them with customer relations.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Human resource. Not within the business, but outside.

[Speaker 3]
Let's say it's a part. But there is a part of human resources as well. And I wanted to mention it too, because we're always, we always welcome new organizers.

So maybe the audience can benefit from this information because we always need new organizers all over the world. So if any one of you can think of becoming an organizer, you can reach out and we, you're very welcome. Yeah.

Awesome.

[Speaker 1]
Is that it? Suppose somebody in the audience would like to organize DCI in their country. Geshe-la said, suppose someone in the audience would like to organize a DCI event.

How do they do that? Yeah. So, so this is just a little sneak peek as to who these incredible people are, but we will have them on again and we'll have an extended interview, but we can also provide their contact information for you in the chat.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Awesome.

[Speaker 1]
So then I think for now that's good. We've got to meet Ana and Igor. Thank you so much for coming all the way to Rimrock to join us.

We look forward to having you again soon. And I'll put the contact in the chat in just a second, but we have another segment coming up. Juan, are you ready?

Yes. All right. Juan's coming over here with a special.

Let's give Juan the chair. Thank you. Thank you.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you very much. So, as some of you may know, we are, we're celebrating the, the dragon's new year last night here in the same house.

[Speaker 3]
And we brought these girls because we want to thank the hostess. So Stanley and Chopin, we would like to give you these in regards of pitch reward news. And thank you so much for the whole year of support and for like letting us use this place and supporting us.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you very much. So thank you. Thank you for everything you do for us and many more people.

And, and also just to finish that or not to finish, to keep going with the celebrations. We have a little special segment with Chloe, because she's going to be telling us more about what it means to be in the dragon year. Thank you very much.

And yeah, let's see, Chloe. Ah, we, okay. Are you, are you, I think Chloe is going to be sharing her screen.

She may be logged in. If any of you may be Marina or Gina using the computer pool shares screen, I'll be great. She's going to show us what's happening.

Hello, Chloe. How are you? Hi everybody.

[Speaker 1]
So this will be the new year with the dragon. So I'm gonna quickly show you how to write dragon.

[Speaker 2]
So this is a dragon.

[Speaker 1]
And since it's our mixed map, I'll quickly show us the history of the, the word of the dragon. So this is our dragon roll from last night is the sushi that we got.

[Speaker 2]
It's the, the year of this dragon is a green color, the new one of the 60 years cycle. So it's, you know, perfect. I got this.

I hope you guys thought this. So this is the dragon. It looks like this.

So it means protection with them. It means it resembles energy, good luck, authority, royalty. And this is the dragon that you might not know.

It's not the same as the Western dragon. So wait, you know, we don't propose to have our own word, like long to say the actual dragon, just long, because look, you can see they are the head that's made with forks. And there's the handler from a deer.

And then the whole skin is covered by fish scales. And then it's the Eagle cloth. Also the vision of the Eagle and it's a snake body.

So that compose the dragon is the mythological animal that is resembling a lot of the best abilities and qualities of many, many animals. So this is the royalty. This is the, on the left is the empire from Tang dynasty.

And we call this long pile, which means the dragon rope. Only the empire gets to wear dragon ropes. And then on the right side, this is a more closed up clothes.

And you can see there are so many dragons. It's hand sold on a silk. So it's a very auspicious and royal, the symbol of royalty.

And the dragon also, you know, people who are born in the year of dragon, has this ambitious ability to always pick up very big projects and very smart, very capable and have natural leadership. Also it's the year of dragon. So we can all use some of those qualities.

So I just want to show you, since we are mixed nuts, Xuanzang Tower translators, this is a whole progression of the dragon from 1766 BC on the very upper left corner. It's Oracle dragon, all the way to the current dragon, which I just showed you guys this one. So yeah, so you can see dragon has been with us or on the record from ancient, ancient time.

Yeah, they do look like dragons, right? And then now I can, this is something you can constantly see in different calligraphies on the, you know, some buildings or in someone's home. These are very classic dragons.

And the first one is from 440 Northern dynasty. And this is on the carving. It's a carved on a stone dragon.

And then later you can see it's a Tang dynasty on the right, 620. And then the bottom two are very classic. Another two different style from Tan dynasty.

So this is what I wanted to show last night is the Xuanzang and his horse. So you can see the Xuanzang. This is a very classic look where the Chinese culture is in a TV show.

I grew up, we grew up watching this. They repeat themselves every summer. And this is their horse, the horse of Xuanzang.

It's called the white dragon horse. Also in Stanley Allison's game section, we learned that Longma, dragon horse spirit means people with high energy and brings out the spirit of a highly capable person and brings the spirit to the team. And the Tang Xuanzang is interesting.

It's also, it's the Chupika master of the Tang dynasty. So Tang III, Chupika Zhang.

[Speaker 1]
So this is the one scene where in the journey to the West, they went to the dragon's palace under the water.

[Speaker 2]
So they are meeting the four dragon kings from four different directions. You know, the Eastern ocean, what, you know, the four. Okay, so that is it.

Thank you so much for learning about dragon with me.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, that's very fulfilling. I don't know if anybody noticed, but those first couple of calligraphies, the ancient ones actually look like dragons. Geshe-la says in the past that that was very common, that the character would resemble, you know, what the word was.

So thank you so much. Also just, we do have the contact information for Anna and Igor. So if anybody's interested in finding out how to become a future DCI organizer, please go to the chat and you can send them an email and start asking questions.

So thanks a lot, guys. Are we over to work? Yeah.

See you on Monday. See you Monday. We'll be back.

Geshe-la, we're so lucky.

[Speaker 2]
Hi, everybody.