Бетси Грир — Книга 2: Интерлюдия о пустоте, занятие 8

[Speaker 1]
And this is the quiz for class three, which seems like it was a million billion years ago. So I'm trying to be a little bit gentle. Okay, so K.

Drip J, he's continuing the discussion of the karmic result of holding a wrong view of emptiness. And he quotes master Chandrakirti in his entering the middle way, which itself begins with a quote. Hopefully you remember.

So do you remember what text he is quoting? Who wrote it? And what the quote says?

Is that the wisdom? Yay, I told you it'd be a little bit easy. Okay.

Who wrote that? Arya Nagarjuna. Nagarjuna, yeah.

And what did the quote say? Gosh. That's a harder part, I guess.

Yeah. Hi, Amelie. Things don't come from themselves, from something else.

Well, he did say that. So if you make a mistake about emptiness, those with tiny wisdom will fall to their ruin. Ooh, wow.

So then master Chandrakirti adds a second quotation that helps explain that first one. Do you remember? Who, what text he's quoting, who wrote it, and what that quote says?

It was kind of interesting that the quote had, not only explains the previous quote, but was by the- Same person? Same person, yay, in String of Precious Jewels.

[Speaker 2]
Ah, right.

[Speaker 1]
And do you remember what that quote was about?

[Speaker 3]
Nope.

[Speaker 1]
Nope, okay. If one holds the wrong opinion about these things, the unwise people will be wasted. They will be stuck in the mud of nothing exists.

Wow, that was scary. Okay, now we get to the big one. Why is it so that making a mistake about emptiness will be the ruin of the person who holds that mistake?

You know, this is a pretty big deal in the class. Because if they think nothing exists, then they'll think morality isn't necessary, or that what they do doesn't matter, so they'll just do anything and create that. Yeah, but why would they think that morality doesn't matter and do anything?

Because they didn't think that anything exists. So there's a step between emptiness and being immoral. They think that cause and effect doesn't work or doesn't exist.

Right, they don't understand cause and effect. They think that cause and effect connect, that the seed that creates the sprout, that creates the tree, that the seed and the sprout touch, and then that the sprout and the tree touch, meaning that they exist concurrently. So if they don't understand how cause and effect works, they don't understand anything.

And like you said, Nick, then they're gonna do whatever, they're gonna say or think whatever it is they want based on their own self-interest with no regard to other people, and they create more and heavier karma and fall to the lowest chambers of the lowest hell.

[Speaker 2]
Whenever Upala, I remember Geshe-la also added on this, by saying that if, that means if we don't understand emptiness, then we never really understand karma, how things worked.

[Speaker 1]
Exactly. Yeah. Can anyone tell me the English equivalent of yur-chuh?

Chuh, sorry. Yur-chuh. It was an interesting use of, I mean, this is a different spelling, of course, but of that sound, chuh.

[Speaker 2]
Wasn't something like to fix or repair or something like that?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, will repair. That's what the yur-chuh brings to it, that it will happen. What's chuh-ki-pong-pa?

Chuh-ki-pong-pa, sorry. Is it something that you, I'm guessing it's related to pong-pa, so maybe something that you give up because you studied dharma? You're bereft of dharma.

Oh, right. So if you don't understand emptiness, you don't understand cause and effect, you're bereft of dharma. Mi-tsong ter-ni jing-war-ng-yur.

Jing-war-ng-yur. This was from the second quotation of Arya Nagarjuna, String of Shining Jewels.

[Speaker 2]
Something about getting stuck in the mud.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Perfect, become stuck in the mud. Oh, cool. Or I should say will become.

Thank you. Yay, what's that? That's the levels of hell.

It's a medieval drawing. Is it an actual photo? No.

I thought it was the county offices in Rimrog. You have county offices in Rimrog? Wow.

Well, no, we don't, but it'd be nice if we did. All right, nice homework. I would say stuck in the stinky mud.

[Speaker 3]
Stinky mud, okay.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. All right, here we go, kids. There's some very sexy texts today.

What would Rinpoche say about that?

[Speaker 3]
You think I was not sexy?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, can you show me one that's not sexy? Just, you know, can you show me one? Okay, Stanley, since you want to check Venerable Udpa's connection, right?

Geshe-la, my notes say that we didn't cover 92, section 92. 92? You are probably, you're always right, actually.

Rarely. We can do it. Yeah, let me check.

You're right, as usual. Yeah. Okay, good.

So, you know, I just found you the lines from the 400 verses of Aryadeva, right? Great, thank you. The one goes to the lower realms, the special one goes to ultimate peace.

And here we go with 92. Stanley, be tough. Okay.

Dam pa ma yin pa gong shi badak med. What is it? Stanley.

Where are you? Wait, wait, wait. Yeah, it's so bad, you can't even tell.

Dam pa ma yin pa gong shi badak med pe. Che nyen pa deni pang pa tang. Chin chi lok du dok pe ngen dro kong nang dro la.

She tong yi pang pa tang. Tong yi ki den ni yi pa ma yin pe. Den no nyam du chin chi lok du dok pa nyi.

Ga nyi ka ngen song kong nang dro war sung so. Sung so, cool. Okay, cool.

Dam pa ma yin pa venerable Upala, those people who are... Oh, they aren't good. Yeah, those people who are not, you know, really nice people.

And when they nyen pa about dak med pa. When they hear about, when they hear teachings about emptiness? Yeah.

Then they pang pa those teachings. Then they discard those teachings. And they get the chin chi lok du dok pa about it.

They get the wrong idea about it. Yeah, and the only place they can go then is ngen dro. Yeah, lower realms.

Now, he tries to divide it into two kinds of dam pa ma yin pa. He tries to divide it into two kinds of bad people. Number one, tong yi pang pa.

They've given up emptiness. Yeah, or those who think that the meaning of tongpa nyi is yu pa ma yin. Is that nothing exists.

Nice, nice, nice. Both of these, nyi ka, both of these wrong ideas, people with both of these wrong ideas will go to the ngen zong. Yep.

Okay, and that's what the verse is saying. That's what Aryadeva's verse is saying. By the way, in Venerable Utpala's text, we are in a section which is describing who's the right person to teach emptiness to.

And we all know that we have vows that say we shouldn't teach emptiness to people who aren't appropriate. So he's trying to clarify for us who would be a good person to teach emptiness to. By the way, this shay in the end of the second line means he is...

Quoting somebody? No, he's... He's quoting somebody, exactly.

So I went and got it for you. Oh, thank you. It's in the commentary by Master Chandrakirti to the 400 verses of Aryadeva.

Oh, cool. So it's kind of cool we're having Chandrakirti comment on those lines by Aryadeva. And here's the reference in 16.

He, as usual, K.W.J. quotes it carefully. And here comes the $100,000 question. Ola, are you translating?

[Speaker 2]
Is she busy? No, Isabel. Isabel's translating right now.

[Speaker 1]
Ola, do you want to cause suffering to Venerable Utpala? You got to turn your mic on, I think. Nope.

All right. Okay. All right, let's go.

Please criticize her very well, okay? Okay. Okay, good, good.

This la here in the end of the first line means on the one hand and on the other hand. Okay. On the one hand and on the other hand.

Before that it says you should tenpa to this kind of dulja. And then it says you shouldn't tenpa to this other kind of dulja. What's it mean?

You should teach? Yeah, you should teach emptiness to... To these kinds of people.

Good. And you should not... Good.

...teach to anyone who is not. Yeah, yeah. And then he says, how are we going to know the kyepar?

How are we going to know the distinctions? Yeah, how are we going to know the difference? How are we going to tell?

Because this is an important question. We could break our vows, right? So how are we supposed to tell?

On what basis do we tell this person is someone we should teach to, this is someone we shouldn't teach to. Okay? How do we draw the line?

How do we draw the line? Here we go. I thought we already talked about this.

This is interesting. One who has had teachings and planted the karma. Okay, yeah.

Ola, keep going, okay? Be tough on her. I want to hear some criticism here.

Bye. Geshe-la, 93 has shesha in it again. Oh, we're talking about the next verse he's going to quote?

No. No, it doesn't mean that. Here it just means someone's going to come up and ask this question.

Oh, okay, thanks. Okay, yeah. DE YANG RGYUD PA LAS Good.

SO SO KYE WO DU NA ANG TONG PA NI TU NE Ninth. NU DU RAB TU GA WA YANG TANG YANG DU JIN I did something wrong in the last verse. JUN RAB TU GA WA LEI JUN CHI ME MIK LEN SHIN NU KI PA PU DANG WARN GYUR WAD GANG YIN PA DE LA RDZOGS PA'I SANGS RGYAS BLO NYID SA BON YOD DE NYID NYE BAR THAMS PA'I NOD NYID DE YIN TE DE LA DAM PA'I DON GYIS BSTAN PA BSTAN PAR BYA ZHES GSUNGS PA LTAR ROL Okay, very very nice.

What's jukpa? Enter. Yeah, which book do you think?

Yeah, Entering the Middle Way. What's the other book? It could be a book.

What's the other book? Good, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. Now there are some people who, even when they were still sosokyewos, before they had seen emptiness.

I'm sorry, I should have put it this way. There are some people who are still sosokyewos, okay? Some people who still have not seen emptiness.

But when they hear tongpa nyi, when they hear emptiness, in the nang, they feel raktiga. In the nang? Yeah, what nang?

Oh, inside? Yeah, good, in their hearts, right? Oh, in their hearts, they feel super happy.

Yeah, yang dang yang. Yang dang yang. Yang dang yang, over and over?

No. Yang yang, yang yang. Over and over.

Oh, over and over, okay. They just keep feeling happy all day long, over and over again, okay? You teach them emptiness in the morning, they feel happy all day long, over and over again.

And in fact, that raktiga causes chimas to wet their eyes. Oh, it causes... They start...

Oh, it causes tears to roll down their eyes? Yeah, tears come to their eyes. len means make wet.

It's in the definition of water, right? len shing shenwa. And their eyes get wet, out from their raktiga.

Now, for $30, what pun is Chandrakirti making in this verse? What spiritual pun is he making? Buddha can't just sprinkle water on you?

And nice guess, and I'm so happy you didn't get any money. About tongpa ni? About tonglam?

Correct. Tsu tsu che, tsu tsu che. Okay, he's just guessing now.

All right, raktigawa is the name of the... First bodhisattva. Yeah, where...

how do you get to raktigawa? You see emptiness directly. Yeah, so he's making a pun.

He's saying, okay, these people didn't get to emptiness, but when you teach them emptiness, they feel extreme joy in their heart. Twice he mentions it. And what he's saying is, that's going to get them to see emptiness.

Okay, got it? All right. So we just look out when we're teaching emptiness and see if anyone's crying and ask the ones who are not crying to leave the room?

I think you look out and see who looks like they're respecting the teaching. Who looks like they're listening carefully. And I don't mean that you should kick out people who are distracted, that's okay.

But I mean you should probably not teach it to people who are there for the wrong reasons. Like they want to write a doctor thesis about something, or they're trying to criticize you, or they don't respect the teachings. Somebody asked me, does this include boys who come to class because there's cute girls in class?

But I have to say it worked once. So I... in New York, back in New York, we had a guy, he followed a girl into the class.

I know that guy. He became a great student, so who knows. All right.

Pabu means the hairs on your skin. So what's that mean? Dung means to rise.

Yeah, the hair on your skin rises on end. Yeah, you get goosebumps. You get goosebumps when they hear emptiness.

Those people have the sabun for the sanggye kyi lo. Those people have the seeds for a buddha's mind. Yeah, good, great, great.

And they, okay, de ni means those guys and only those guys are nü. Are suitable? Yeah, suitable vessel.

This one means vessel. Oh, yeah. Okay.

And you can denpa them, den dam denpa. Oh, you can teach them the perfect meaning of reality? Yeah, ultimate reality.

Dampe den means ultimate, that's all. It's den dampa, den dampa, yeah. Those, that's the kind of people you can teach.

So people who really have a strong reaction, positive reaction to emptiness, that's the kind of people you're looking for. When you teach the pen, they get excited. When you teach the pen, they get excited.

If they fall asleep, which has happened countless times in Geshe-la's class. When I was a student in the monastery and they had trouble sleeping, I would read Madhyamika for about 15 minutes. Oh.

It would put me to sleep. Maybe I'll try that tonight. No, I don't want that habit.

Here's the quotation, okay? Thank you. It's all the same.

All right, now let me choose a checker. Venerable Jigme, can you check? Yay.

Yeah. Venerable Jigme, can you read the question? Yes.

PHYIR LA MOD PA THAR NANG KHYAD PA'I LIM BU'I PHYI MA'I GRUG PA LA YID BRTEN MED TO All right, good. I still think Kid of Jay was on something when he wrote this book because it's so beautiful. DE YANG STONG PA NYID PHYIN CHEN MA LAM PAR BSHAD PA THOS PA DANG If they hear a BSHAD PA of STONG PA NYID If they hear a wrong explanation of emptiness.

MCHOD KYI MA LO Oh, I correct? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's the implication here?

What's the mayinga? By the way, he's gonna say they start crying. Uh-huh.

Oh, then he's gonna just take out the MA? Yeah, or something like that. He's gonna say if they start crying about an emptiness teaching, and by the way, it should be a correct emptiness teaching, okay?

Maybe they're crying because the teaching is so bad. Yeah, not like that. If they listen to a correct teaching on emptiness and they KHO BA the DONG of that teaching.

They get the meaning? Yeah, they understand the meaning of the teaching. And due to that KHO BA, they feel NGOS TSAR BA.

Due to that? NGOS TSAR BA means they feel like amazed, okay? Wondrous, okay?

And that feelings of NGOS TSAR, DRANGS PA DAG CI MA, out of their eyes. It does something to the tears. Yeah, it pulls.

It pulls tears out of their eyes. DBYOR BA is a Tibetan idiom that means tears trembled in their eyes, okay? They started...

The feelings of how wonderful the teaching was elicited DRANGS PA, trembling tears, okay? And he says this sign of a correct student for emptiness is MI THU BA. Unsurpassed?

Yeah, or this is the unmistaken sign. This is the unmistaken sign. This is the true sign that the student is ready to hear emptiness, okay?

If they start getting weepy when they hear emptiness, okay? I guess it's possible some of my students when they hear emptiness, they just look confused. Maybe they cry.

Yeah?

[Speaker 3]
Does it only refer to tears when you hear the emptiness teaching, but not like other teachings like, I don't know, compassion?

[Speaker 1]
I think if you start crying about a compassion teaching, you're probably the same kind of student, yeah. I think so. By the way, he's going to talk about it, Stanley.

In fact, he's going to talk about it right now. Okay. DGOS PA LTAR NANG DGOS PA LTAR NANG means misplaced faith, okay?

Misplaced faith. This LTAR NANG is a logic expression, which means just looks like that. And it's the logic word for a wrong reason, right?

LTAR LTAR NANG, LTAG YANG DAG The Tibetan word for a false reason is LTAR NANG. Now, if they have some kind of misplaced faith, okay? Towards a mistaken dharma, okay?

And then they start to get CIMAS, okay? If they are... LTUG PA means they are shaken by tears.

These are the tears of a LUM PO. Is it wise? Opposite of...

[Speaker 2]
Oh, foolish.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah. These are stupid tears, okay? Oh, stupid tears.

Okay? So if they get off, they start crying. Someone says, Oh, emptiness means nothing exists.

Your husband's not in the kitchen. You can do anything you want. And they go, Oh, that's so beautiful.

And they start crying, okay? Couldn't they be crying because it's a ridiculous... Oh, yeah, but...

It will cause people to go to hell? YI LTAR NANG And then he says, Those kind of tears are YI RTEN MED. YI RTEN means trustable.

Oh, they're not trustable. Yeah, those are the tears of a fool. They will come and go.

We want the real tears of a person who wants to serve all beings on all planets. Okay, that's the tears we're looking for. We're not looking for the cheap tears of the people who start crying about anything, whether it's correct or not, okay?

All right. He's very eloquent, isn't he? I mean, it's going to be quite an exercise.

And I think you're a good person to do it. This Tibet is going to require a lot of eloquence. All right.

I'll talk to Stan. Alex, sit up. Alex, let's go.

I find some big problem with this lady. DEN DRA BA'I NYAN PA PO NON DEN LA ZHES NA MTHONG NYID KYI DGOS BA NAS DU SONGS PA'I PHAN YON DREL DU DU JI THAR BYUNG ZHES NA Good. Nice pronunciation.

Now, if I find a NYAN PA PO like that, what's that mean? If I find a listener like that? Good.

If I find an audience like that, okay? Somebody can listen. NON DEN is a synonym for NUS.

So, who possesses a pot, it doesn't mean pot belly, okay? That's me. NUS means...

NON DEN and NUS are synonyms. If I find an appropriate vessel, okay? To listen to me.

And if I ZHES MTHONG PA'I NYID to them. If I explain emptiness to them. And if they DGOS BA.

Oh, shoot. If they get it, okay? And if their understanding is GNAS DU SONGS PA.

GNAS DU SONGS PA means hit the mark. Hits the mark. Right on the mark, okay?

This GNAS is that Marmahata, right?

[Speaker 2]
Marmahata, sorry.

[Speaker 1]
Marmahata. Then, what kind of pinyin is going to happen? What kind of benefits are going to happen?

Yeah, what great thing is going to happen to them? CHAL DU means in the immediate. In the next few minutes or in the next few hours.

CHAL DU is opposed to PHUG DU. PHUG DU means in the long term. So what kind of short term thing is going to happen?

Could you spell PHUG DU for me? It's probably going to come. Let's see.

No, it doesn't come. Yeah, PHUG. Thank you.

CHAL PHUG are opposites, okay? I don't know why he said CHAL. I guess PHUG DU, he's going to become a Buddha, right?

And Khen Rinpoche wants to say, well, what kind of short term things are going to happen if their understanding after they listen to you hits the mark? And here it comes. Alex, let's go again.

You didn't have much. You got to turn your microphone on, Alex. Criticize her happily.

DE NYID RGYAS BA BYANG CHUB DU DRO BA DGOL BAR BYA PHYIR YONG SU MGO BYAS CING RDZOGS PA'I BYANG CHUB SEMS PA NAM LA DGOS PAR BYED Nice, good. You didn't give anything for Alex to do. No.

I corrected myself too quickly, I'm sorry. Yeah. Who's he quoting?

Again, maybe? Yeah, again. Entering the middle way.

Yeah, exactly. RJES SUR DRO BA here means the... What do you call that?

If they understand emptiness, they are going to get the corresponding results, okay? RJES SUR DRO BA here means corresponding, okay? Okay.

They're going to get a result which kind of fits the cause, okay? So what kind of good things are going to happen? Yeah.

First of all, this person, if they understand some emptiness from your teaching, they're going to always observe their tsultrim. Their morality. Yeah.

YANG DAG LEN means... LANG means LEN. They will take up morality and they will live that way.

GNAS PA RGYUR They will live the moral life, ethical life, okay? And this verse is extremely important, okay? This verse is extremely important.

If you are teaching it, Venerable Udpala, what... Try to guess. I mean, let's say you're doing a life tool, which we're going to talk about tomorrow, I guess.

Let's say you're designing a life tool from it. And let's say, what's a sign that a person really understands emptiness? And what conclusion, what description could you create based on these two lines?

What kind of person really understands emptiness? Oh, a person really understands emptiness when they understand karma and consequences and they know that by studying emptiness they're going to reach the highest goal and therefore they take up morality and live it purely. Good, yeah.

So I want to rephrase my question. Let's put it this way. I have people around me.

They've been studying. I've been teaching them for years. What's a sign that...

What's a sign from which I can tell that they understand emptiness? They're keeping their book. They're keeping their morality nicely.

Exactly. Isn't that beautiful? Isn't that really the meaning of emptiness?

It's not that they're spaced out. It's not that they're flying in the sky. It's not that they, I don't know, they're rich or something like that.

It's not that they are just careful to keep their morality. Cool? And they get interested in giving.

They get interested in giving. Yeah, they're generous people. That's a sign that they want.

Well, they're working on the second perfection? First perfection? No.

It's a sign they understand emptiness. That's the point of this verse. I'll give you some signs of a person who understands emptiness.

Number one, they are nice to other people. Number two, they are generous to other people. Number three, they rely on nying je.

Heart? Yeah, they're compassionate to those in pain or those who are having emotional problems and stuff. They are gentle.

They are compassionate. That's a sign that they understand emptiness. They're also sopa with irritating people.

They don't get upset with irritating people. Yeah, and that's a sign that they understand emptiness. And every good thing they do, they ngowa it.

NGOWA DE Oh, they dedicate it. Yeah, they dedicate it. Every good thing they do, they dedicate it to taking all other beings to enlightenment.

They dedicate their NGOWA. Sorry. They dedicate their good deeds to getting everybody enlightened.

And finally, they have a lot of KOS PA for the ultimate Chandra Sampas. They have... Oh, they're eager for...

They have a lot of respect for... What kind of Bodhisattva? Oh, complete ones.

Yeah, the Buddhas, okay? It's a cute way to say Buddhas. Don't forget that Buddhas are still Bodhisattvas.

It's not mutually exclusive. They're just ultimate Bodhisattvas. All right, there's the quotation.

It's all well quoted, I have to say. Thank you. And here we go.

Catherine Yin, are you awake? Yes, Geshe-la. Let's go.

Criticize this lady. Come on, come on. She's too nice.

CHOS GSUNGS PA LA THAR She's too shy. THAR STONG PA NYID LA NGES PA PHYIR CI SANGS SONG BA DE SANG DU SPYIN PA DANG SOGS DRIN LA SOGS PAS GSOS RNAMS KYIS SOGS LA BYAS DGOS PAR YUR BA YIN TE Yeah, good. The bigger this person has a perception or an understanding, NGES PA, the bigger their perception of emptiness, the bigger their understanding of emptiness, then the bigger is their KUS PA, their respect for BYIN PA and TSUL KHRIMS For giving and morality.

Yeah, and the other GSOS RNAMS KYIS SOGS And the other positive actions? RGYAS BA DI GSOS RNAMS GSOS RNAMS BSYED TSUL RDZOGS SHING Someone was saying something. The accumulations of merit and wisdom, right?

Right. How come he just talked about merit? I don't understand.

Talking about ethics. This whole thing has been about ethics here for a while. Nah.

Why didn't he say GSOS RNAMS BSYED TSUL? Because when you understand emptiness, you understand Yeah, good, good. You already mentioned it.

It's a shirshak. What's shirshak word for $100? Shirshak.

Shirshak is a presentation. There are fewer enjoyments I have in... Okay, the two things I enjoy most in the world is when I say okay, and when word can't give me a good answer.

Shirshak is... Yeah, cancel that. Shirshak means...

How do I say? Given. It's a given.

Shirshak means it's a given. What's a given in this sentence? That emptiness is included.

Yeah. Yeshe Gitsok is shirshak. It's a given.

We've been talking about it. We're talking about a person who's seeing emptiness or listening to emptiness. Okay, good.

That's why he specified they will get the merit collection. How many of the six perfections apply? All of them.

Three and a half. Except for the last. Generally, we say three and a half.

Yeah, generally, we say three and a half. Okay, good. Nice answer, Stanley.

If you waited, you could have made some money. All right. Catherine Nguyen, I want to hear you criticize her again.

Come on, come on. Okay, I'll try. All right, here we go.

Good, nice, thank you. Utpala, what do you think the name of this text is? Chang chug sempay drelpa.

Sorry, chang chug sem kyi drelpa. A commentary on the Bodhisattva Charyavatara? It's a commentary on bodhichitta.

Chang chug sem kyi drelpa. Look where it's coming from. It's located in the guhya samaja section of the tantra.

It's coming from the guhya samaja section of tantra. This is not a wimpy book on bodhisattva mind, bodhichitta. This is some kind of super duper commentary on bodhichitta from a tantric perspective.

Guess who's the author? Arya Nagarjuna. No.

Yay! Okay. Yeah, Arya Nagarjuna.

Okay, good. He said, if you find a person who... shes tompa nyi Who has the wisdom of emptiness?

Yeah, if you find a person who understands that all things are empty. I'm sorry. chun nam tompa nyi If you locate a person who understands that all things are empty and at the same time they are le drel tenpa Notice the S here.

They respectfully understand karma and cause and effect? Yeah, this bestenpa means they practice. Oh, they practice.

Okay. If you find a person who understands that all things are empty and then, on that basis, tries to be a good person. Then...

Okay, I'm going to give you a gift here. The instrumental is the comparative. di notsar way notsar notsar means amazing.

I'm not kidding. It looks like they're comparing two things that are exactly the same. Yeah, those people are more...

They are more amazing than amazing. Great! That's very Nagarjuna.

Those people are more amazing than amazing. me chung means wondrous. They are also...

They are also more marvelous than marvelous? Great, perfect.

[Speaker 2]
Marvelous than wondrous?

[Speaker 1]
Great translation. Marvelous is even better than wondrous. Marvelous is great.

Marvelous is marvelous. If you find a person who combines an understanding of emptiness with being nice to everybody, that's... Sorry.

That's amazing. That's more amazing than amazing. That's more marvelous than marvelous.

Got it? Wow. Why is this tantric, I wonder?

Yeah, that's a great question. Wouldn't it be wonderful to translate that, Nick? Maybe.

I wonder how long it is. I think it's short. shintu ngakpa He's really super ngakpa.

This is not the ngakpa that means tantra. It has a B on it. Right.

Praise? He sings the praises. He sings the praises.

And what's the shintu word? Yeah. What he's saying is that this kind of person, ne, is a shintu ngakpa situation.

shintu gokyur shintu ngakpa They are super praiseable. By the way, the ne here is very important because the ne means the combination of these two things. If you can find that combination, oh my god, that's so amazing.

What combination? Emptiness and understanding of karminous results or acting virtuously. Yeah, emptiness and then good behavior, kindness to other people because they understand emptiness.

Wow. That's the best. Yay.

Okay. There's the quotation. Nick, that might be an interesting text.

We were trying to think of another Nagarjuna text to do. Okay. All right, I'm going to give Karen Yen some vacation.

Adam, can you criticize this lady? Come on. Yeah, totally.

Hang on. Cool, thank you. All right, let's go.

That was koa not goa. Okay, good. Then somebody gives a wrong position.

Somebody's going to state a wrong position. That's an anticipatory translation. We know, right?

Venerable Upala, that what we say next has to be wrong. Let's say something wrong. Then the guy says, after a person gets a ngepa about tongpa nyi, Gets an understanding about, or a certainty about emptiness.

Good, yeah. After a person really ascertains the meaning of emptiness and they go on it. And they meditate on it.

Good, yeah. From that point on, from that point on, ma gwa nam la yin kyi nge dun gwa Oh, yeah, yeah. If they get interested in tsultrim, okay?

They get interested in morality. Yeah, after you, after the point that you get, after the point that you see emptiness, if you get interested in morality, you nge dun ma go. And this nge dun is the opposite of tong dun.

tong nge, tong nge. This is the nge of tong nge. Okay?

People who keep practicing morality after they see emptiness, they don't goa. The nge dun. Okay?

They don't understand. They don't understand the real meaning of scripture. Okay?

Yeah, they don't get it. This is some other guy's viewpoint, right? If you get to emptiness and you still respect morality, okay?

You don't understand ultimate reality. They say. All right?

Now, if you do goa nge dun, what's that mean? Okay, if you do understand the real meaning, the ultimate meaning. Yeah.

Then why the hell you need this drupa? This drupa is related to the one we had in Seiji's text that meant what, Seiji? The Lama kept drupa-ing.

Right. Elaborated.

[Speaker 2]
Detour.

[Speaker 1]
Detour, elaborating. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay?

So, what the hell? If you're a person who understands the ultimate meaning, nge dun, the real meaning, why you need all this elaborations? Why you need all this constructions?

What's the use? Implying that morality is simply a mental construct.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
It's just made up in your mind. Who needs deceptive reality? But it doesn't mean you have to stop practicing morality, right?

It's true that morality is deceptive reality, but it doesn't mean that you're supposed to stop practicing, right?

[Speaker 3]
Right.

[Speaker 1]
All right. Okay. Let me find somebody else to pick on you.

Hey, Hasso. Can you hear me? Hey, Hasso.

[Speaker 3]
Good morning.

[Speaker 1]
Good morning.

[Speaker 3]
Can you hear me? Yes. Yay!

[Speaker 1]
We miss you, Hasso.

[Speaker 3]
Thank you. I miss you all, too.

[Speaker 1]
And we miss Nicole. We miss Nicole. We miss Nicole more than you, actually.

Okay. And I miss you guys. Yay.

What'd you say, Nick? You trying to stop me? Three minutes left.

Two. Yeah. Is that enough time to read?

Let's read it anyway. It's good luck.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, thanks. Sorry.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Cool. Okay.

We're going to start and we won't finish this line. Adam, can you give me an example of a correct reason involving a result? DRE LTAG YANG DAG What's the classic example?

DUN DENG GI LA LA DUN DENG GI LA LA SPYOD CHEN MED YOD TE DU YIN PA'I PHYIR Please translate. Perfect, perfect, perfect. Nice.

Consider smoke. Or consider a mountain pass. There must be fire because there is smoke.

Yeah. Consider a mountain pass covered in a big cloud of smoke. There must be fire there because there's smoke there.

Now, that's the classic DRE LTAG. Okay? It means you see a result and you can assume a cause.

You see a result and you can assume a cause. Venerable Utpala, what's he trying to say? You see a person who thinks morality is a waste of time.

And you see someone who's going to hell. No, no, no. What cause can you assume?

Oh, they don't understand emptiness. Yeah, great, great, great. Isn't this beautiful?

Isn't this so beautiful? He says, hey, you want a DRE LTAG YANG DA? Do you want an accurate, logical statement that depends on the presence of a result?

I'll give you one. If this person says, deceptive reality in the form of keeping your morality, hey, that could be a song. Deceptive reality in the form of no morality.

That's a DRE LTAG YANG DA. That's a definite, that's smoke. When you see someone say, you don't need emptiness, sorry, you don't need morality if you saw emptiness, that's smoke.

What's the fire? Misunderstanding of emptiness. Yeah, don't really get emptiness.

Anyone who says you don't need morality if you saw emptiness, that's smoke on a mountain pass. Even though you can't see into their heart directly, you can deduce that they don't understand emptiness at all. Isn't that a beautiful way to say it?

Now, it's lucky that this is our last line for today because I need help on the carving, okay? Okay. Venerable, I need help.

I'll look at it. It's messy. There's a lot of problems here.

Usually I can guess what it is and I'm having trouble. Okay, I'll look. All right, thank you.

Thank you. Yay, good. Yay, K.W.J. Yay, K.W.J. We're so lucky to be reading two books by K.W.J. Yay, K.W.J. SON NAM YAS SHES SOGS SOGS SHING SON NAM YAS SHES RE BYUNG DANG PAR KUN NYID DANG PAR SHING Yay, Utpala. Thank you, Geshe-la. Thank you for being here. Thank you for editing all our books.

There's so much work. She works so hard.

[Speaker 3]
Oh, I've learned so much.

[Speaker 1]
You guys have no idea how hard she works. Okay, see you guys tonight, right? Thank you, Geshe-la.