Бен Крамер — Книга 2: Драгоценность истинной мысли (Геше Йеше Вангчук о Дхармакирти), занятие 31

[Speaker 3]
I think they go better with jelly beans.

[Speaker 1]
Like tea, right?

[Speaker 3]
Something like that. Wet and flowy.

[Speaker 1]
I know.

[Speaker 3]
Jelly beans don't make noise either.

[Speaker 1]
OK, Rob, how are you? Good. We'd like to make a small, one-minute thing.

It's the birthday of Gibson's first book. One, two, three. Happy birthday to you.

Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday, dear Gibson's book. Happy birthday to you.

Rob's going to blow it out for you. Gibson, I'm sorry to say, we're going to have to eat it for you. So, I'm going to personally take responsibility.

Thank you, Gibson. For the birthday of your first book.

[Speaker 3]
Thank you, Gibson.

[Speaker 1]
Hey, Mr. Hage, you've got to cut it up and ruin their dinner, as my mother would say. Over to you, Dr. Kramer. OK.

All right, here's the gozis. All right. So, what material is covered by Master Devendra Boody's commentary to the commentary on accurate perception?

Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, he's freezing up.

[Speaker 1]
Really? I don't feel that I am. Say again, word?

[Speaker 2]
I know it's the basics. He covered all of the points covered in a surface way, but not the deeper stuff.

[Speaker 1]
No, he did not cover all the points in a surface way. In fact, he left out intentionally a meaningful amount.

[Speaker 2]
Wait, isn't it just chapters 2, 3, and 4 or something?

[Speaker 1]
Ah, yeah, right, exactly. Yeah, good. Oh, cool.

Right. Right, he, Master Dharmakirti, wrote an auto-commentary to the first chapter, so Devendra Boody was commanded by his teacher to write a commentary to the latter three. And he did, in fact, obey his teacher by attempting how many times?

Three. Three times? And how did that go for him the first time?

[Speaker 2]
I love this. He got thrown in the river. Thrown in the gozis.

[Speaker 1]
Some river. Gozis sounds like a pretty good river. If you've got a gozis river nearby, that's a good choice.

He definitely wetted with water, which may have been a lake or a gozis. What about the second time?

[Speaker 2]
Ginseng. Cleansed it with fire.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it was so clean at the end you couldn't find it. And what about the third time?

[Speaker 2]
Master Dharmakirti said it was passable, although he didn't get the flow or the deeper concepts very well.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Honorific phrase, word you better clean up after everyone else doesn't get it, for presenting something before the eyes of one's teacher.

[Speaker 2]
I don't know.

[Speaker 1]
Hey, hey, hey, no, no, you wait.

[Speaker 2]
You have to wait.

[Speaker 1]
You're the one to wait. You're better clean up. Right.

But he helped you, everybody.

[Speaker 2]
Shall seek, you know.

[Speaker 1]
It does start with seek. He was right. Shocker.

[Speaker 2]
Here's the word for offering. Sikphu. Sikphu.

Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Sikphu. Yeah, Sikphu if you like. Offering a birthday cake from Gibson's book.

Yes, offering before the mouthful of the Lama. Yeah. Right.

What's the honorific for gullet? Jim. Jim.

Oh yeah, Jim. Yeah. Jim.

What words did Devendra Boody add to the lines of his final attempt at the commentary to the commentary.

[Speaker 2]
I don't know much.

[Speaker 1]
Uh huh.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Sentiment is there.

[Speaker 2]
I'm making my best attempt.

[Speaker 1]
I mean, why bother if, if you don't know much, why even try. I often ask myself, and I think of him in these times.

[Speaker 2]
Trying to get clear around these myself. Whoa. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Get clear. What's the word for get clear here, which is not something I asked. Yeah, good.

Yeah, cool. Calm calm. Yeah, great.

Trying to get used to it. What what term does he use to describe. There's a word that I wasn't familiar with to describe.

Kind of battening down is of his concentration which he does one time and then into does it later. After his. Yeah, right.

Great. Cool.

[Speaker 2]
That's what that's what remember she used to tell Gessler when he was driving right good.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, so I wouldn't ask him questions. That's adorable. Yes, I have pretty much no virtue, but since time waits for no one I have written this brief commentary, which is probably not not brief, explaining the difficult points to make myself familiar with the material, something like that.

Then, I like it. Thank you. What words did Dharmakirti add to the end of his book following this exchange or just a few words there's actually a longer verse but, but there were just a few words mentioned in this context.

I and I got the impression I wasn't clear on this but I got the impression he almost circled back after seeing the level of that his students were capable of, and then added addendum to his work, I'm not sure if that's true but that's how it unfolds in order in the story.

[Speaker 2]
He said that he doesn't think he's the last one who's going to understand this stuff. There's nobody else that's going to really get.

[Speaker 1]
And so just like blank, then blank. It's not, it's not castles made of sand melt into the sea eventually but it's close. Tim says just like.

Yes, right. Just like, right, yes and Oscar, I see that you put it in there moments after we heard it. Just like rivers flow into the ocean.

My understanding will dissolve into my body.

[Speaker 2]
Tim Tim said Tim.

[Speaker 1]
Tim said Tim. Right. Here's just a bonus.

Because I was short some vocab. What words for logic or else awareness are often confused and which is which.

[Speaker 2]
Without an S and with an S.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Anyone got a cockamamie pneumatic device to help us this is not a question I have an answer for but I always think, at least a dope with and without the saw that you get more from the realization so it's got an S on it so. So what do we do about.

What do we do about it. I don't know they get more from logic, any, any ideas I don't know you guys told me, come on.

[Speaker 2]
I like your device logic is like super supercharged awareness.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, I don't know. Oh, okay. I didn't think that until you said it.

I like it. Ben.

[Speaker 2]
Yes, you can remember moderate moderate without the S2 I don't know if that will help you but, you know, like, I got a weird proposal for you guys.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I mean I thought of it in 50 years I never thought of it but what if it's patterns. Like you. Wow, that makes that's pretty cool.

Or what if it's a verb. What if it's a simple bonus and you have a verb, what if it means to make somebody Rick but awareness, Sammy.

[Speaker 2]
The suffix often indicate a chip or some people also. Yeah, not yet fairly common.

[Speaker 1]
It'd be weird. Cool makes you. It makes you know.

Well that's beautiful yeah so it's a little more complicated it's like an extra step to knowing. It's not knowing it directly with a drip, you need a little something extra to figure it out.

[Speaker 2]
I forgot which which spelling means type, you need a little type.

[Speaker 1]
I think it's with a saw. Yeah, boss. Yeah, with this.

That's another, that's another discussion I can't make up anything on the spot. Okay. I made some sort of attempt at translation you didn't assign me a thing boss I just grabbed some.

I did. You did not. You said why she said do stuff in general, live your life by doing stuff.

Yeah. Okay. Okay, let's see.

Now, I'm going to tell you something. It doesn't say she bought. See, what did I do.

Oh, he wrote an extensive work explaining the four. Oh, she bought the. Oh.

But in four chapters. Oh no, well, later. Oh, whoa.

I see. Okay, no there's something wrong with it. SEMS NAM DU GYI LUS ZHIG Oh yeah, he wrote the four chapters of SEMS NAM DU.

Yes. I'm sorry.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Then the first chapter of the other commentary. Yeah, good. That's it.

Yeah. And then a commentary on Devendra Booney's other three. No, but.

Oh. Hang on. SEMS NAM DU GYI LUS ZHIG Are we still talking about Dharmakirti?

No, we are not. I'm sorry, boss. We are now on to Shakyamuni.

Oh. We're on Devendra Booney's student who also studied from Dharmakirti directly, but also studied from Devendra Booney. Oh, so this is what it means.

He wrote third line. He wrote a real fat commentary to, one, the four chapters of the root text. Yeah.

Number two, the auto commentaries of the first chapter. And number three, the last three chapters of auto commentary by Devendra Booney. Yes, great.

Yeah, okay, cool. Yeah, good. Yeah, you got it here.

Yeah, good. Yeah, super fat commentary. All right, good.

And, yeah. And your next sentence is perfect. Yep.

Oh, good. Okay. Okay.

Something like... This was mean to start a sentence slash shakya. Yeah.

Right? Right. Yes, extremely.

I wouldn't have known that if I hadn't you. Yeah, good. Okay, this is a good sentence.

It sounds good. Okay. There's still time for me to disappoint you, in fact.

Well, I was wondering... I guess on a computer you would just erase it or something, instead of throwing it in the water in a fire, right? Yes, I think that's exactly what you would do.

All right. All right. Oh, he said I should put it in the trash and then empty the trash bin.

Okay. Krishna Acharya. Good.

I like your Sanskritization pronunciation. Is it sahajjalita or sahajjalalita? I don't know.

Oh, I don't know. I think I... Couch, I grabbed it from you and either spelled it right or wrong based on that.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
You put it in notes. Yeah, I think I copied it from Chandra, but maybe you want to check it. It was...

By the way, it's pretty common to try to date these early masters by other masters whose dates you know, right? Okay. That's very common throughout history.

You know... Michael lived at the same time as Ben Kramer. If you know Ben Kramer's dates, but you don't know Geshe Michael's dates.

So it's just... Okay. Dangdut Singjun.

Yep. He was from La Landoy. Tsema de dun la drab pa de.

He was currently studying the messenger and echo perception. Put it in the notes. Yeah, but you've got to have a comma after Shantarakshita.

Yeah. Because if you don't put a comma, it means there's two Shantarakshitas. And he was the teacher of the one who did travel to Tibet.

You see? I see. Okay, which is not the case here.

Yeah. Okay. Is that it?

Okay, cool. That's it. That's what I did.

Good job. Thank you. You did a big day, boss.

I think this is the day, boss. I think we're about to... I think today...

I think we're going to hit the text today. I expect you to be dancing by the end of the class. I thought I was supposed to be crying in anguish by the end of the class is what you warned me of.

Automatically. What Ben's saying is he's finally going to start his commentary. And then it...

By the way, you still get a little vacation at the beginning of the commentary, and then he hits you. I'm just setting you up for it. This is the next...

Yeah, here's the next... You can choose someone else to talk to if you want. Okay.

Oh, who's in the room, boss? Okay, I'm going to say it all in one breath. Rob...

[Speaker 3]
Rob, it is.

[Speaker 1]
Chelsea, Becca, Mark, Shelby, Chloe, everybody, Lily. Yeah. Who did you say before Shelby?

Did anyone get that? Was it Chloe or Lily? Who?

Rebecca. That's a pretty good choice. Let's go with Becca.

With Becca? Okay. Yeah, Rebecca.

Okay. Geisha used to teach us tones. Used to teach us columns by using Rebecca's name.

So Rebecca, Rebecca, Rebecca, Rebecca. Rebecca, Rebecca, Rebecca, Rebecca. You're correcting Ben.

[Speaker 3]
Oh, my God. Why did I forget how to read? No, I totally forgot how to read right now.

Thank you. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. So Ben, she was all? Yeah, Master Shantarakshita.

Was den drang to pur? Oh, he was invited to Tibet. Yeah, by?

King Tse Tsang Densen. Yeah, I didn't really understand what tsampa does mean king. It means literally strict one.

His student was? Kamalashila. Kamalashila.

And he wrote a denture about Sima. He wrote a commentary, yeah, on accurate perception. Right.

And then the Tramse Deje Gawa. A Brahmin, for some reason, named Shankarananda. Shankarananda.

I made myself a note today. Yeah, because it's easy to confuse him with Shankaracharya. Shankarananda.

Oh, cool. Yeah, he also, Tsemanabdhagadamadze. He also wrote a commentary on the commentary to accurate perception.

Okay, if you guys are falling asleep from all these repeated sentences about who wrote a commentary to the sub-commentary to the auto-commentary, just remember, you're about to hit the real text, and you are going to wish you were back here. Okay. Okay, who's next, Benny?

Rebecca, who's next? Jack. Great, Jack.

Let's go, let's go. He's groaning and running at the same time. Okay, you're in charge of the cursor here.

Okay. And you start with that slab. Slab.

How did Ben's name get in the book? Slab. Slab.

Slab. Slab. Slab.

Slab. Slab. Slab.

Slab. Slab. Slab.

Slab. Slab. Slab.

Slab. Slab. Slab.

And then Che. Che. Yep, Che.

Okay. Ken. Ken.

Ken. Ken. Bo.

Say. Ma. Ken.

Say. Nice. Za.

Ma. Ri. Say.

Ma. Ken. Ki.

trail she say hey dr. Kramer translate so master Dharma Dharma Tara wrote two commentaries called the perception on ascertaining accurate perception a big one and a little one tape then means the correct commentary okay and then yeah yeah and then the the ornament master wrote a yeah the wrote the ornament on accurate perception will be ornaments to accurate perception maybe that's why he's called ornament master cuz I would have assumed it was mental again Campbell Bonner it must be that yeah and then summary yeah somebody or or yeah John buddy nobody he wrote a commentary to the ornament of accurate perception yeah good I don't I didn't find word somebody's name into bed there must be Germany but I I haven't found it very easily maybe you did some work on this above when we when he made his own preemptive bibliography of the works on accurate perception we've covered these authors so he's recapping and I think we

[Speaker 2]
did some work on this okay and again is Tayden part of the ornamental title or is Tayden just a description of that those two yeah that's good you're asking

[Speaker 1]
whether it's an adjective or it's part of the title it's part of the title he named his book right one good question though uh-huh done done done done done it on the dollar wait we should eat another cake for you tomorrow who's gonna who gets to start the actual book then that's a big honor oh well yeah okay great yeah so after all this time we reached the real subject matter we're done with the history stories now we start the hard work and Haggerty's our first one such a NEPA and Duke Duke Chupa Chupa Chuma Namdrel key shun dun ten la Bepa Bepa good you stay cuz it's awful short such a NEPA subject yeah subject it's like this is the second major section of the book that's all second second major sections actually the meaning of the of the commentary on accurate perception which is the Duke job so there must have been some kind of Duke in the first section name like you know why to get into the book and now this is the book that we're getting into okay do you want how good II didn't do a little more of course day young tarlam sell sell J key such a this is an idiom subject such a yeah Jita wah good shin-jin not sah sah wah sah way yeah sick drow sick drow sing yeah yeah war jars jar de wah dong low you'll do char de wah so good go good but do my tongue a day Shindu drip bar yeah Joe okay yeah okay so there's a some book or other I don't remember anything about it called light on the path to freedom yeah there's two tarlam sell J's and that's famous so we ask you what book you're studying you say tarlam sell J they'll say which one and then you can either say the tarlam sell J or it's semi tarlam sell J okay so it means light on the path to freedom what's the tarlam Sunday the first big big llama

[Speaker 2]
yeah it's the first go again in droops commentary 12 years translating and

[Speaker 1]
then threw it out when I started debating I threw it out because I had some then we can follow gel sub J's commentary to Dharmakirti okay subject by the way and I'll say it again in the monastery we debate that we debate two pages of that book for about 14 hours a day for a month the first few pages okay that's how hard it is that's Ben's next book okay I thought I'm such a gay subject if we follow if we take the outline of gel sub J in his order so there's a debate about the order of the four chapters there's a disagreement about which chapters chapters three and gel sub J made an executive decision and he taught it in a certain order then if we do it his way so it's in gel jar dewa it's easy to jar the delpa with it's always six oh it's easy to jar I don't know like oh join that yeah that commentary with the root text yeah especially since a singer especially since I'm writing a word-by-word commentary when she did not do so in a way yes you want to complement each other so he says we follow that then it'll be easy for 20 something year old geisha Michael to include texts in the monastery yes so that'll be easy to it'll be easy yeah and you can conceptualize it there it'll low yield to sharp low yield to sharp char is a another tense of Sharawa okay oh it means you'll get the idea the obvious kind of easier for you dummies okay easier for you to grab what's going on in fact I can see many good bus to doing it this way a lot of good reasons a lot and yeah and so this is how I did but the book this is how I ordered it yeah exactly nice yeah I'm following yeltsin J's order and I'm supplying the word-by-word commentary gals of J gave you the meaning gals of J's totally impossible in fact I survived the winter debase a record I think it's four or five times it's like going in Olympics four or five times and I invited myself by the way but they said it's pretty cool somebody would want to come so I thought Ben there's a debate about the order of the four chapters and I thought you could easily go to some of those early commentaries and see yeah yeah about ten commentaries so we did this work a little bit also about give us a summary next time okay it's pretty weird that a major text for the Geshe course there's a disagreement about the order of four chapters that's that's if it's 12 or something I can understand it or who you want to read dr. Kuhlman Rob who's next yeah she's been cooking for grandpa so thank her I give it to my wife I need a pizza but okay okay you got the cursor with your finger here they learn they I'm nice oh yeah hang around this was short to do this whole mess in two major sections or two sections anyway one will be presenting the general explanation of the meaning and the second would be a dialectical analysis yeah so first I'll give you a general presentation of the whole book and then don't don't don't don't don't don't give me a chair then you give Chuck yeah then soon don't soon okay well two of the three are obvious I mean so this general presentation of the meaning of the book will have three sections the first will be the meaning of the name the sound will be the translators obeisance yeah bowing third now Oh why is this tension again it's a presentation the whole show which changed this him a presentation of the whole book which oh which has the name okay which has the name which is the same as the meaning of the name yeah so it means first I'm gonna explain the name of the book and now take one or two sentences then I'm gonna explain then I'm gonna give you the prostration at the beginning of the book by the translator and then we'll go to a third little part called the whole goddamn book that has the name okay great yeah great okay cool nine point nine percent it's a kind of a by the way Tibetan outlines are not weighted prop you know not weighted the way we weigh them in the West and you I've seen translators they have a huge Roman numeral one and then there's one sentence with the name and then there's a huge Roman numeral two and there's a little prostration and then there's a huge Roman numeral three and then there's 800 pages you can't do that okay

[Speaker 2]
I mean it should be obvious it's helpful for us to hear that again how come there were two Soomes I mean is there any reason or did he just he said don't pull

[Speaker 1]
assume and then he has assumed at the end of the sentence that's grammar it's it's not he shouldn't have done that yep okay it's a good point Nick his editors have should have been better I think it's good luck to have Fabio read the name of the book what do you think just a dark the top there how is the first give me then chop same num chill shook so yeah God God do you can't do from an article now these are when you see a possibly a it's a it's a a with a new new yeah yeah one more like I told you it's gonna get hard after those an extensive classical commentary known yeah on the yeah on accurate perception yeah the commentary and accurate perception what's got a Sanskrit name yeah which is the prominent Vartika oh no you got I want to hear your long names from our God yeah and venerable Pala asked me if God is carica or carica you wrote me that email today or yesterday and there's your answer God we got okay and Tibetan it's similar to a key to mayor tip up yeah good where's the sema where's the number and where's the secret tip in the same is from my mom tell is Vartika Vartika why didn't they put a V here they don't got one they could have used a W yeah yeah where's the tip uh yeah layer tip is God God yeah set into verse set into verses okay and what's this this is the translator bowing down to the to the aria jumpulsion or the the one who became young yeah now this first part with the names in the two languages and this second part with the translators bow down is what what's he say here um don't put on me uh me no so oh those are the first two sections we said we were gonna cover no actions are started to by the Lord's hour oh they are illuminated by the translator start to chew oh they're at it yeah they're a translator yeah this so far what we have has been inserted by the Tibetan translators this this prostration to Manjushri and the two names in Tibetan and Sanskrit obviously the original writer didn't put the Tibetan and he says look those two lines are inserted by the ancient master translators they are not sure look yeah they're not an actual part of the commentary they are not the actual book by Dominique who's up next dr. Kramer Flavia please pick someone that's that's a good system one hustle yeah who delegates the delegators give him a hard time sure sit up straight what's the deal where's your tie in the car good good good that's the important thing in the car overnight the re-blessing by the way so has to distribute to the first two been okay so here's our third part which is the den of the shun which has the scent the meaning of this commentary which has that name good it's got some yes this this will have three sections of its own as well first we're gonna all the jukebox into the ship all the all the jukebox I mean I was gonna say so like how to engage in the explanation the entries into the explanation what do you mean it means preliminary material preliminary material okay and then we'll get the real shipping you are that's good you will set forth the explanation and then finally he will ship a touching yeah he will then he'll do the conclusion part usually the conclusion is who wrote it who carved it who paid for it okay this is my teacher's holy name yeah touching who went to the end whether you guys will get to the end is a big question I mean of this book enlightened easy this book I don't know okay you want him to read another sentence better you always hoping oh no certainly I want a little more out of him okay yeah okay Liu she gay why don't sorry don't one way shun in so the first part which is the preliminary material the opening material we've got now luckily we have the expert here on this topic we have the chicha Tim and we got that so much on Java offering a praise and the promise to compose the work okay which we've been to a lot in Tim's text recently and these two are to Moa to the whole she got Liu she oh they apply to the whole it's all four chapters exactly so let's kind of treat it outside of the four chapters oh cool here's the offering place I said yes also he's gonna choose a new victim right okay yeah please fun Lily Lily I don't know why he's torturing a visitor okay I'm gonna try is a CSP master you got the cursor this finger up here okay like Chicago okay it's amazing nearby there nope again when I first meet you Oh Cincinnati oh that's somewhere between New York and LA right roughly yeah last I checked okay don't pay Tawa num selching he has seller sell what the Tawa of topas yeah he has illuminated the topas the name Jalala Jalala yes yeah like fish yeah like he has he has cleared away the fish net of topa with no ass ideas or conceptions or dumb ideas like them ideas okay and he was the crew which are Sabah and Gatewa oh he know a word oh he has the bodies which yeah which are profound and far-reaching yeah and I think Nick from your last verse what do you think someone got to mean here I guess I would have I was

[Speaker 2]
assuming that they meant emptiness and activities but it seems that it means something else maybe a body which results from yeah from practice from studying emptiness correctly and serving yeah serving good okay he possesses that

[Speaker 1]
and he has good to somebody is there a dog yeah yeah totally awesome pure rays of light yeah and it might be a pun on Samantabhadra okay yeah whose offerings when Samantabhadra makes an offering of one piece of cake a single piece of cake appears before every single Buddha in the universe so it might be a kind of totality I chucks out to the person who chose all those others yeah I bow to the one who yeah emanates all those beams of light yeah yeah who is this bowing down to yeah the Buddha the Buddha now the next verse is extremely famous it's one of my favorite verses in all of Buddhism care will pass your child I'll give you a room okay Kayla pleasure Pella chashing shit up don't mean you're calling my set up a dog is the one you're doing on dollar donation nothing by interest about me send me here in a shake on bottom they get your deal I got our okay opening lines from Antarctica very sexy so unfortunately we're gonna do a little piece who do you want to read Ben should I ask Lily to choose somebody I would love that pick us shopping thank you good job you've been nice to me my gosh the visitors are passing some of the older pleasure Pella Chuck most people are attracted to normal things okay anybody makes a pun normal people are attracted to normal okay the rest you gotta figure out mr.

Kramer all right so that's your homework the rest of this verse and you can quote this to people for the rest of your life because it is very funny it's a very Ben Kramer birth I have to say deep and funny like it's true okay great day llama great day thank you so much yeah you started your dang book okay now that's the 20-minute break right ten minutes I think you know I don't know I I had a boss like you when I used to work on building houses sounds about right break was three minutes don't be late wait how much 10

[Speaker 2]
yeah it's 10 minutes but I mean you know take the time you need gusha okay okay thank you very much for class that was amazing as always

[Speaker 1]
Kramer nice job people in the room nice reading yeah thanks everybody have a

[Speaker 2]
nice break see you in 10 minutes