Адам Андраде — Книга 2: Логика. Рассеивая тьму, занятие 36

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, LaShawn, what's going on, man?

[Speaker 1]
I've got a stomach bug. Oh, no. Yeah, so I might have to run off to the bathroom at some point.

Okay, don't do a naked gun thing and leave the lapel mic on. Don't pull an Enrico Palazzo on. Thanks for the reminder, because I've been thinking a lot.

Oh my gosh, Leslie Nelson. We still have a minute. I was just checking in.

Yeah. Oh boy, oh boy. This is exciting that we're going to try to work on your book.

This is not an easy book. Sometimes it's very hard. Oh, yeah, sometimes it's pretty straightforward, and other times, yeah, it can be.

Yeah, the Tibetan's not always so hard, but making sense of what's going on. Yeah. Man.

Yeah, I was a baby shark when you allowed me to show my duck. Yeah. Hey, it's your turn.

You guys see me? Is my camera on? Yeah.

Okay, so- You're going to knock, knock, knock, knock, po. Knock, knock. Who's there?

So describe the term ngopo, ngopo tsam. Hmm.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, just working thing or working thing itself, like quote working. Hey, the boss is here.

[Speaker 1]
What? Saved by the boss. I hope Stanley drove safely.

Yeah. All right, sorry, Adam. No, no problem.

I agree with what Ben said, though, working thing. Yeah, can we talk about, yeah. Okay, yeah, totally.

I mean, that's true. Oh, as opposed to an instance of a working thing. So ngopo tsam being a category, which I think- Yeah, totally.

And what would it mean to have those qualities? To be a category? Oh, oh.

Yeah, it can be treated as working things or working things as such, or just working things, quote working things. So this term is referencing the quality of being a working thing, which is inseparable from all things that perform a function. Sorry, yeah, I really haven't been feeling well.

And like 10 minutes ago, my stomach started acting up. So I'm trying to focus, but just bear with me. So we've got the category of working things, which all working things belong to.

And if something is a working thing, that's necessarily a member of the group called, so the rest of that, the group called working things. Yeah, so it's just looking for like a general description of what it would mean to belong to any category. So why is it the case that the direct perception of what appears as a coffee cup should appear to the mind as an archetype?

Which is kind of ties into what Stanley was saying. Stanley said something about a couple of my questions being contradictory. You guys can think back to.

Well, it seems fair enough that your questions might be contradictory because the text seems to be contradictory. From different viewpoints. But is this because when you're saying what appears as a coffee cup, because you're talking about the unchanging mental image?

No, well, yes, but there's a two-step process in there. So what would be appearing as a coffee cup? Around 10, oh.

Yeah, even further than that. Well, do you remember when we were talking about the, what was it, the eight great substances? The four elements?

Four elements. Oh, right. Right, so we're kind of on this whole thing where we're talking about particulate matter and atomic structures, right?

So does your mind actually, like when I say what appears as a coffee cup here, I think it was Bunzin. So your mind is holding coffee cup, but what is it holding? It's conceiving of something, but what is it conceiving?

[Speaker 2]
It seems like this is not resolved for me yet, but I guess you're talking about the collection of parts, right, that Tsochi?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he hasn't specifically mentioned Tsochi yet. It's like a substantial thing, it's what you're referring to.

Yeah, well.

[Speaker 2]
Right, but if the thing is a collection of partless parts, we can say that a thing that is partless is substantial or a Zhang Sen, but then the collection may not be, is what we're trying to figure out, I guess.

[Speaker 1]
I've kind of been tiptoeing around it because this really leads into question three. So I was hoping it would be a little bit more apparent, but let's go ahead and just look at both of them. And we'll walk through it together.

So what I was going for was actually what was in question three, like question two, but question three would have helped you guys out too. So you're conceiving of a direct perception, which is why it's the case that you can never have a direct perception, excuse me, why the direct perception of what appears as a coffee cup, which would be color and shape is a direct perception. It's just sense data.

And it appears to the mind as an archetype because anything that is more than, anything that's more than one thing is a mental construct. Is that making sense? Because it's a label imputed upon the parts.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's pretty, I mean, Ben, I keep hearing you say that you thought it was unresolved, but, and this is just what I took away from it. So I would definitely be up for hearing why it is.

It's necessarily the case. They used, I think, well, I'll stay away from that. Anyways, so we're talking about the direct perception of a, or excuse me, the conception of sense data, right?

Anytime something's a conception, it's necessarily an archetype, right?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
By the way, Adam, the dope chip in the question number three should be RTOG, okay?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, that's what you mean.

[Speaker 1]
Sorry about that. Otherwise you're gonna have complaints from. So what phrase, let's see, what was that?

What phrase do you use to specify why? And that's essentially why. I mean, I think it was mentioned.

I mean, it's the whole pot on the stove overlay thing. Those two would seem to be contradictory, right? Yeah.

Yeah. In fact, the definition, part of the definition of direct perception is that the object of it should be non-conceptual, right? Yeah, so sorry if it wasn't too, this is what I came up with.

So sorry if it's not too helpful. You're gonna understand this book until the third time through. Thank you.

BUM PA TZAM DE MA'ONG GYI TSE YIN NA TAN DAG PA'I TSE YIN Yeah. Now the word TZAM is really, really important in this following section. What do you guys think that TZAM is doing to the BUM PA?

Like BUM PA, it's easy. BUM PA should be a TZE, right? That should be substantial.

But when you say TZAM, how do you guys think it changes it? Is it making it BUM PA?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, you taught us this last class, boss.

[Speaker 1]
It's making it like BUM PA, like a TZE, right? In quotes, like coffee cup. Yeah, simple base or the base in and of itself.

[Speaker 3]
It's like a category, but with only one member.

[Speaker 1]
So it's not technically a category because it doesn't have more, but it's something like that. But it is the only member. Yeah, so there's a big difference between BUM PA and BUM PA TZAM.

So BUM PA is a coffee cup. BUM PA TZAM is the idea of a coffee cup, really, right? Okay, so would you guys without...

If I asked you if there's a thing called, quote, coffee cup, and in English we do this, right? It's either tickling somebody or, quote, quote. If you have, quote, coffee cup, could it be substantial?

And furthermore, well, in what time does it exist? Can it exist in the past substantial, coffee cup?

[Speaker 2]
No. What do you guys think? A real thing doesn't turn into a concept.

[Speaker 1]
But, okay, but could it have a flow in the past? The concept of coffee cup, did it exist? Did it exist yesterday?

Yes. Yep, it did. Is it substantial?

No. Could it exist tomorrow? It could.

Yeah, but would it be substantial?

[Speaker 3]
No.

[Speaker 1]
No. Why not? Because it's not made of either indivisible atoms or moments.

Nice. Okay, I like that answer. Okay, Adam, let's read.

Can you read 387? Yeah. Pamputana dandar kyeb hongsel la jen tro mi chepar gyur.

Yeah, if you say there is such a thing as a past, was it past? Can you scroll up to 386? Yeah.

Oh, past, past tense. Okay. It could be, if you say it could be a past substantial thing, then does it, is the present vase part of the past vase?

Past coffee cup, sorry. Does the coffee cup from the moment before extend to the coffee cup of the present moment as a constant? Yeah.

I would say, yeah. Okay. And by the way, sel means member, right?

It doesn't mean clear. It doesn't mean like a sel in.

[Speaker 2]
A sel.

[Speaker 1]
It doesn't mean clear line. It means a member.

[Speaker 2]
So we're saying that a concept has parts in time.

[Speaker 1]
Members. There's a thing called coffee cup quote, which extends into the past and future, okay? If the concept coffee cup extends into the past and future, then he's asking how could it have as one of its members, the present coffee cup?

Yeah, coffee cup. If coffee cup exists through time, past, present, future, then how could it have as a member, the present coffee cup, because it also has the past coffee cup. So it's past.

How can a past coffee cup quote, have as one of its members, the present coffee cup?

[Speaker 2]
It's not, it's not, it doesn't have parts.

[Speaker 1]
Well, let's take this cup. I got a cup in my hand, okay? It's a present cup, right?

[Speaker 2]
Oh, the physical cup. Yeah, sure.

[Speaker 1]
Does it extend to the coffee cup when I sat down and does it extend to the coffee cup that will be here when I leave the room? Yeah, that thing you're holding in your hand, yeah. Yeah.

There is such a thing, right? There is a coffee cup that existed before I entered the room. It's existing as I'm sitting in the room and it's gonna stay on the table after I leave the room.

So in that case, the coffee cup has some, it is, it does consist of members. This coffee cup has a past version, a future version and a present version and they are all part of this coffee cup. Can we say that?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, part or members, right? Either?

[Speaker 1]
I would say a version, maybe, you know?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, iteration, examples.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, right. Okay. Now, let's see if anybody has a problem with that.

388, Adam. CIM MA LTAR NA THAM MA'ONG DE MA'ONG SKYE BUM SA LA BRJAN DRANG MI SKYE PAR RGYUR RO Yeah, so if it's... By the way, CIM MA means, referring back to 386, the latter choice, the latter of the two choices.

The latter choice was the cup only exists as a present cup. The cup doesn't stretch over the future cup and the past cup. The cup only stretches, cup only stretches over the present moment cup.

So the guy changed his answer. He says, okay, I don't want to say that cup in your hand stretches back to the coffee cup of the moment before and the coffee cup in the next moment. It's just the cup in the present moment.

And we say, okay, CIM MA LTAR NA, well, if that's the case... Uh-oh. If that's the case, DE MA'ONG GI BUM SA LA BRJAN DRANG MI SKYE PAR RGYUR RO Then the coffee cup of the moment before and the coffee cup of the moment after are never part of this coffee cup.

And this coffee cup is only in the current split second, okay? And you can't talk about the cup I had in my hand five minutes ago, and you can't talk about the cup I had in my hand, I'm going to have in my hand in five minutes, okay? You can't talk about...

Yeah, yeah. It's only the cup in the current moment. Those other cups, the cup in which I stand doesn't extend to the cup that was here a few seconds ago and does not extend to the cup that's going to exist a few seconds from now, okay?

[Speaker 3]
Right. Yeah, right, just...

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, good. By the way, what's this hang up on the current moment coffee cup? Why is he hung up on that?

Because we called it a zay. Right, yeah. It's substantial, it's real, it's out there in the world, okay?

If it's substantial and real and out there in the world, then it has to consist of...

[Speaker 2]
Stuff.

[Speaker 1]
Atoms which are indivisible, okay? You have to be able, if it's substantial in this school, you have to be able to reduce it to atoms which cannot be reduced further. And that makes it real.

And that's the difference between closing your eyes and wishing you had a coffee and having a real coffee in your hand. The one in your hand goes down, down, down, down, and it has atoms. And that philosophy, that belief system is called science.

Okay, and you can say you don't believe. You can say you're a Buddhist, but you're not. You're a scientist.

You believe what the scientist says. Because you need your cell phone. All right.

Three to nine. ,GANG YANG MED NA, ,RDZE'I GSOS MA GCOD BA'ANG PHYIR BAR RO, Yeah, and then the guy's like, you know what? The cup is not the cup of the present moment.

It's not just the cup of the present moment, but it also doesn't extend to the cup of the moment before and the moment after. It's neither. And we say, oh, if it's neither, then how could it be substantial?

How could it be real? If it's not present, future, past, then I understand if you say it doesn't cover the present, it's future and past. I understand that.

But can't you say at least it's the cup of the current moment? And he says, nope. And then we say, well, then I don't see how it could be a cup at all.

Okay. If it didn't spread over any parts at all, why is he so nervous about the cup spreading over parts? Because it becomes a concept and it's not a substance anymore.

If you have, quote, this cup in your mind that spreads over the cup of the moment before and the cup of the moment after and the cup in the present moment, by the way, the only way it could spread to those three moments is if it's not substantial. If you're imagining, in your imagination, you're drawing a cup which has past, present, and future. It's no longer a cup in this school.

Then it's the idea of a cup. But you can't drink tea out of an idea of a cup. Okay.

All these problems. All right. 390, is it right, Adam?

Yeah. We're changing topics, okay? Yeah.

Going from Zay to starting and stopping, I guess. Is the coffee cup ever going to stop or no? Not in this text.

Coffee cup. About 49 years from now. Does a coffee cup ever stop or not?

And would you phrase 390 as a question if you're translating it? I would.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
All right. These cups either start or don't stop. Either start or don't stop.

The cups stop or don't stop. As soon as you put come, in the middle of two words, it becomes a question. You're thinking it has to come at the end, which is also a way to make a question mark, but here it doesn't have to.

What would you guys say? Does the cup ever stop or doesn't it? Sure.

Yeah. You've dropped the cup, you break it, and the cup stops, right? But it doesn't not stop.

He's giving us two options. Oh, sorry. Do you say the cup ever stops or do you say the cup doesn't ever stop?

And then he says in 391, Adam, MEN GANG NA DNGOS PO MEN PAR BSGYUR If you say the cup never stops, then their cup could never hold coffee. That's good. Because it's imaginary.

If it doesn't, yeah. Or it would never change. Then you drink the coffee.

All right. In Buddhism, a thing cannot be a functioning thing. It cannot do something if it's unchanging because every time it does something, it wears out.

Yay. Don't tell me we're at the end of your homework. Adam, you feel okay?

Can you want to go on or I can? No, I'm just, I'm having trouble focusing. I just don't have much energy.

Don't worry about it. That's called the third day before the end of classes. I slept for five hours this morning after class.

Oh, awesome. Wonderful. I'm feeling very perky.

That sounds nice. Where is the, here we go. Wait, is that the one?

That's the one. I'm sorry, that's the other book I'm working on, right, Nick?

[Speaker 3]
This is awesome.

[Speaker 1]
This is awesome, yeah. Really? Yeah, we did it.

When you shared screen, you probably selected just the document, so you might have to move. All right, okay. Let me do that again, okay?

I'm sorry. This has gotta be his book. Yes, sir.

It is? It is?

[Speaker 2]
Destroy this 530.23. Thank you, guys.

[Speaker 1]
No, that's, that's Aseji's book. I'm not seeing, now I'm seeing Adam's book, okay.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. 392.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. If you say the coffee cup never stops, it can't hold coffee. Let me get you a big cursor so you can curse big.

Okay. Okay, here we go. Now, if it doesn't stop, we have a problem, because that means it doesn't do anything, because all things that do something stop by doing something.

They wear out. Okay, 392, Adam. Okay, who's going to read?

Who are you going to pick on? When you're, especially when you're not feeling well, you just call on other people. That's what I do.

Not a bad idea. Sharon? Sharon?

What about Sophie? Sophie. Sophie Huynh?

I don't know.

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Adam, we should have taken a shower. That's the only thing.

[Speaker 3]
Can you hear me?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[Speaker 3]
Oh. Tak-na-un-pa-ga-re-su.

[Speaker 1]
Je-su?

[Speaker 3]
Je-su. Wrap-pai-ju-pe-se-bun-so-s.

[Speaker 1]
Soak? Yeah.

[Speaker 3]
Soak.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Chi-me-du.

[Speaker 3]
Chi-me-du.

[Speaker 1]
Chi-me-du, you're.

[Speaker 3]
Chi-me-du-yong-lo-se-su.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[Speaker 3]
Se-su.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Thank you, Sophie. Okay.

If the vase, if the cup, if coffee cup can stop, okay, then after the coffee cup stops, there couldn't be, after the coffee cup stops, then things like a golden coffee cup would no longer have any chi for them. If coffee cup could stop, then yellow coffee cups wouldn't have any boss because there's no more cup. Okay?

So then yellow coffee cups would have to be yellow cars or yellow books or something. Okay? Because they can't be yellow coffee cup anymore because coffee cup stopped.

All right? Chi-me-du. Chi-me-du means they would lose their category.

They wouldn't have a boss anymore. It wouldn't be coffee cup which has different types. Then one of the types, like yellow cups, would have to be lonely because he doesn't have any group that he's a member of anymore because the father of the group, which is coffee cup, stopped.

Got it?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, but we're talking about bumpas now. Bumpa-tsam.

[Speaker 1]
We started this argument with bumpa-tsam, may I point out?

[Speaker 2]
No, you said we were changing topics. But we didn't.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, who said that?

[Speaker 2]
Two lines ago, three lines ago.

[Speaker 1]
That was three lines ago. Okay, Adam.

[Speaker 2]
And even in the last verse, if we were talking about bumpa-tsam, it would be fine. In 391, if we were saying bumpa-tsam, it would be fine to say that it doesn't stop. Right, because it's not a changing thing.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Anyway, let's say that it says, if it stops, all the yellow coffee cups are lonely because there's no more coffee cup for them to be a member of. How's that?

I didn't say that. He said it.

[Speaker 2]
I know, I know.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, I'm just a messenger. Okay, Adam, who's going to be 393? Let's grab it here quick.

Catherine? Catherine Yan? Yes.

Can you help us? We're in 393 here.

[Speaker 3]
Rigpa, rigpa tegta sum. sum bar juk bar dong ne. ming si ta jing mu yi kye nam kyang se sum bar juk bar dong te.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, great. Thank you. Okay, nice.

Okay. Okay, rigpa tegta sum bar, if we follow the same kind of logic that we did for the coffee cup as coffee cup, and we were exploring the problems that the idea of coffee cup could have atoms, for example. And if it didn't have atoms, it couldn't work anymore.

Okay? Because it wouldn't be a changing thing. Okay, looking at the same kind of...

Understanding that they are equally, that the logic applies equally, understanding that the logic applies equally, we can say that ming tics, and not only ming tics, but also yi kyes don't exist as zi. What's ming, Adam? Names.

Tics. Words. Words.

And even yi kyes. Letters themselves. Letters.

They don't exist in any substantial way. Okay? They don't exist in any substantial way.

Following the same kind of logic that we had for coffee cups, we can say that names, and by the way, it's a big topic in the Abhidharmakosha, and whether names and words are physical, like sound, or written form, visible form, or are they concepts? Are they just concepts? Okay, so he says to look, according to what the conversation we've been having about coffee cups, it throws into question whether names and words are concepts or real things.

And that throws, and that, not only that, but that throws into question the validity of a letter, a letter, okay? The letters that names and words are made of, okay? Because whatever's true about names and words is also true about letters.

So he says, let's go straight down to letters, which are like the what in a physical thing, and like the what in a temporal thing. Like the atoms of the moments. Yeah, letters are similar to the atoms in a physical entity, and similar to the moments in an entity over time, okay?

So we're going down to the smallest component of a name, which is word, letters. Is he saying, by my equivocation over the use of the word. I doubt it.

I mean, in a sense, right? Like by my equivocation over the use of this word that's ambiguous as to whether it's a specific thing or a general category, I've proved that words themselves are not substantial. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's okay. Yeah. Even letters are not substantial, okay?

Much less, well, much less. Tachi-mu means much less names than words, okay? Okay, Adam, who are you going to pick on?

It's so fun to pick on people. People here in the room, by the way, I'll repeat. Rob, Anjali, Allie, Stanley, Gilsey.

We got this. People in the back, and we got.

[Speaker 2]
I think Gilsey? It's like a dating service.

[Speaker 1]
They paid me not to mention their name. Chloe, Tim. Let's see.

Hey, Gilsey, can you help us? Aw. She should be reading Sagey's text.

You've got the cursor. My pop is relaxing.

[Speaker 3]
Stay young. Excuse me. Stay young.

[Speaker 1]
Ask Adam. Don't ask me.

[Speaker 3]
Nga.

[Speaker 1]
Nga.

[Speaker 3]
Nga. Nga. Nga.

[Speaker 1]
Nga. Nga. Nga.

[Speaker 3]
Nga. Nga. DE'ANG DE'I LTAR KO'I TSE TSUL KHRUB NAS DE'ANG DE'I LTAR DE'ANG THANG ZAD CIG THANG THA DE'I GANG SNGON YIN DGOS PA LA Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Gilsey could read some of this. DE'ANG DE'I LTAR, here's how it is. YI SKAD means what?

Letters. It means letter in either sense in Tibetan also. What's that mean?

Yeah, it could be something you sent to your friend. And it could be a letter of the alphabet. TA means the extreme.

TUNG means short. So what's TUNG TA? What?

Distance. Length. The smallest distance letter of all is A.

And it happens to be the same in Sanskrit and Tibetan. We say, we don't say A. If you think about it, English is strange because we give the letters names other than their sounds.

It could be A, B, C, D, E, F, G. And it's A, B, C, D, E, F? Why not fee?

See, it doesn't make sense. But in Tibetan and Sanskrit, luckily, A is A. Okay, so he says, let's consider the smallest example of a letter, the shortest letter in existence, which happens to be A.

Babu, let's take that. Even that shortest instant of a sound or a letter still has, and here's our famous DCI number that you learn in DCI level one. Jutsangat.

65, right? 65 milliseconds, okay? So even a single instant of A, the shortest sound you can make when you're speaking, A.

That's a sound my students make, Nick. They make it longer. Okay, even the shortest A has 65 seconds.

Therefore, if A is substantial, if it's a real thing, are those its parts or not? Does it extend over those or not? You tell me.

No, he says, do you agree that if A is real, it has to either be those 65 seconds or it has to be separate from those 65 seconds of A, A, A, A? So is it, are those part of it or are they not part of it? Are the little us and the atoms and milliseconds, are they part of A or not?

What do you think? They've gotta be. He says, look, they either have to be a part of A or they have to be separate from A.

If they're separate from A, then they might as well be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be, be. Then B would be A also, right? Really, in my opinion, they gotta have a relationship with A, the uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, 65 that make up a, they better have a relationship with a because if they don't, then b, b, b, b, b, b, would be a also.

Okay, all right. By the way, he says, he claims he's following the same coffee cup logic that he's been doing for a few classes. Same thing, atoms, instants, and uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, okay.

Gelsay's begging to read two more, Adam. I don't know why. She'll even pay me if she can read them.

Data.

[Speaker 3]
Data. Koshikamashik.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, thank you. So if you say that uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, the moments of A, the moments that go into uh, if you say they are, what did he say? If you say they are part of A, if you say they are part of A, if you say all the uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, sounds, 65 in a second, are part of A, then isn't it true that when the first uh stops, A would stop?

There's a song, ♪ A little part of me dies every time I ♪ There's some song like that. Yeah, if it's true that uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, is all part of A, then when the first uh stops and we go to the second uh, then part of A dies and, and all, all of A will die. Cause part of it died.

It's like a car with three wheels. I mean, that's, that's right.

[Speaker 3]
We'd have to agree with that, but you wouldn't think that he would agree to that in this school.

[Speaker 1]
I can't, didn't we say she was going to do three, Adam? I think so. Yeah, I think that's, that's what we agreed to.

By the way, Gale State runs this whole building. You know, it's one of the most beautiful buildings in this part of Arizona. It really is.

And it's like teaching in Tushita heaven. So we want to thank her for that.

[Speaker 3]
Yay!

[Speaker 1]
Yay! Yay! Yay!

[Speaker 3]
Yay! Yay! Yay!

Yay! Yay!

[Speaker 1]
Yay!

[Speaker 3]
Yay! Yay! Yay!

Yay!

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, now, shig can have two meanings. If it's destroyed or there's a flea in your bed. Which one is it?

Destroyed. I'm sorry, no, Adam, or God, we're just going to complain. ZHIG means flee, okay, high tone, all right.

If the first instant, it stops, and if A stops in the first A, okay? ,SKYE MCHED CHI MA DANG ZA'I PHYIC DANG, ,THAG DE GANG YONG MIN PAR DANG, then the A cannot be connected to the second instant, and it can't be not connected to the second instant. If the first millisecond of A can stop, then there wouldn't be anything to connect to the second instant, okay?

And there wouldn't be anything to be connected with the second instant, okay? Yeah. In other words, you can't say that the first instant is related to the second instant, and you also cannot say that the first instant is not related to the second instant if the first instant doesn't exist anymore.

You can't discuss whether something is connected to something or not connected to something if it doesn't exist anymore. One cannot be connected to two if by the time of two, one is gone. And it also doesn't make any sense to say one doesn't connect to two if there's no ones.

Got it? You okay? Yeah.

I got Chloe and Jack right here. You can kind of... Somebody's escaping, Adam.

Gilsey, can you pick somebody to go next, please? Yeah, wait, we didn't finish this sentence. Oh.

[Speaker 3]
We did.

[Speaker 1]
If the first instant of A went out of existence, you couldn't discuss whether it was connected to the second instant or it wasn't connected to the second instant, because if it wasn't connected to the second instant, because if it didn't exist, you couldn't say it. Okay? Okay?

Because kye chik shi me du na kye tse sum ma dupe chen, if it doesn't exist at all, it cannot exist substantially by the time of the second instant anyway. So how can they have a connection if the first one's gone already? All right, now you can escape, but you have to choose the next victim.

This is how to get popular here.

[Speaker 3]
Rebecca? Rebecca?

[Speaker 1]
Nick, does your dog ever do that? My dog used to go. He does.

It's awesome. Rebecca does that when you call on her. Yeah.

My dog used to do that at two o'clock in the morning when he wanted to go pee pee outside. Anyway, that's a long story.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, please read Use the Curse. Very much. MA ZHIG NA, ZHIG KYANG YIN GCIG PAR BRTEL, SNGAR MA ZHIG PA'I PHYIR MA ZHIG PA'I PHYIR If the first second doesn't, GCIG, the ZHIG is the past tense of GCIG, like GCIG PHYI.

[Speaker 1]
No, that's a different GCIG. Anyway, destroy, right? If the first instant doesn't stop by the time of the second instant, the uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, okay, of the 65, first of the 65.

If the first of the 65 doesn't end before the second of the 65 starts, then GCIG means the next second, which means the instant number two. Mila, Mila, Mila, uh, uh, uh, uh. If the first one, uh, which is part of ah, doesn't stop, then neither does the next one.

Okay, you all right with that? Good, then neither does the next one because the previous one didn't stop. The next one can't stop if the first one doesn't stop because if the previous one doesn't stop, the second one doesn't stop.

SNGAR MA ZHIG, yeah. Okay, okay. And then the other guy says, yeah, okay, I don't have a problem with that.

And Rebekah says, yes. NDILA NGOS PO YIN PA NYAM SO ZHES MANG DU MA LA If you, if you agree that, if you agree that the first second doesn't go out of existence, then the second instant, then the second instant, Mila's second can't go out of existence. And then the whole thing can't go out of existence.

And then it cannot be a NGOS PO. It cannot do something. It's all things that do something by doing them destroy themselves.

So, NYAM SO means you lose your, NYAM means you lose your idea that the thing is functioning because the first second is still there by the time of the second second. That means the whole thing is still there by the time of the last second. That means it's not doing anything because when you do something, you change.

Cool. All right. MANG DU MA MANG DU MA means, hey, we could talk about this a lot, but hopefully it's not going to.

Adam, who's next? I mean, that last one was pretty short. Like somebody, I mean, nevermind.

Rebecca, can you help? Would you mind helping us again?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, sure. Okay, okay.

[Speaker 1]
RAB PA THAMS GYI GNYIS NA YANG ZAS SU MA DRUG PA RAB PA THAMS GYI GNYIS NA YANG ZAS SU MA DRUG PA Yeah, RAB PA means, if we consider the coffee cup in a rough way, what would be the parallel word used in Abhidharma this morning? Rough. And it does describe Vitarka, okay?

So, RAB PA means rough, okay? Rough, if you're just talking, if you're saying, I'm referring to the cup as just a general kind of thing, okay? I'm not talking about the cup and all its atoms and all its milliseconds.

I'm just talking about cup in general, okay? Roughly, cup roughly. I'm talking about cup roughly.

Or I'm talking about the flow of the cup over time, okay? So, don't ask me if it's still there by this first seconds gone or second seconds, don't ask me that, okay? I'm just talking about cup in general, and I'm just talking about the flow of cup over time, okay?

Then we say, if that's what you're talking about, then stop calling the cup a ZHIG. Substantial. In our school, substantial means it breaks down into un-partable atoms or un-partable instance of time or un-partable parts of a letter up.

Okay, got it? Did they, that's what we say. Who's next, Adam?

Or you want, Rebecca, can you help us with one more?

[Speaker 2]
Oh, okay. Sure, okay.

[Speaker 1]
Curse him, curse him, curse him.

[Speaker 2]
All right. THE'ANG PHUNG PA RAB PA YIN PHYIN ZAS SU RGYUG NA KHOR RANG LA YOD PAS YAN LAGS NAM THANG ZAS GCIG GANG GANG THAG Then the other guy says, you know what?

[Speaker 1]
I want the coffee cup to be RAB PA and ZAS. I want to say it's roughly a coffee cup and it's also substantially a coffee cup, okay? I don't see any problem with that, okay?

I'm not talking about it's milliseconds. I'm not talking about it's atoms. Just talking about cup in general.

And to me, that's good enough to say it's a real thing. It does stuff. That's okay with me.

He says, it can be both at the same time, rough and substantial, okay? And then we ask these innocent questions which are supposed to blow him up. Shoot people in Buddhism, we just ask them questions that help them shoot themselves.

Okay, KHOR RANG LA YOD PAS YAN LAGS. What's YAN LAGS? We have YAN LAGS GYI PRAYER, for example, the eight part...

Oh, I just scared you. Okay. Is it connected to its parts intimately or not?

Your rough and substantial cup, is it connected to its parts or not? The handle, the bottom, the sides. Yes.

Yeah. Okay, yeah. We say, if you remove the cup, do you remove the cup's handle, the cup's bottom, the cup's sides?

Is that their relationship? And you say, yeah. Yeah, I agree.

We'd say, that means ZE CHING. That means ZE CHING. ZE CHING means what we didn't agree to was, you could remove a cup and its handle would still be there and its bottom would still be there and its sides would still be there.

All right. Then we answer kind of automatically, their relationship is substantial. If you remove the coffee cup, you remove the handle.

If you remove the handle, you remove the coffee cup. Who's next, Adam? Rebecca, do you want to choose somebody for me?

JIGGY.

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
JIGGY. Here she comes. We got five minutes.

[Speaker 2]
Oh.

[Speaker 1]
She said she'll only take four minutes to walk. All right, here we go. You're on this, you got the cursor.

Grandpa is relaxing. ZE CHING NA YEN LOK NAM KYANG ZE CHING DU MYUR RO. If you say they're related substantially, which means if you remove the coffee cup, you also remove the coffee cup's handle, for example.

And couldn't we say that the parts also have that kind of substantial relationship? If you took away the handle of the coffee cup, would the bottom disappear? Ouch.

Because they're all related substantially, according to you. Okay, all right. Then he says, you know what?

They're not connected that way. The coffee cup can survive without the parts. And Jigme offered to read that also.

You all saw that I didn't, right? You used to say, ESP. Please let me read the rest of the book right now.

ZE CHING NA YEN LOK LAY MA THUG PAY YEN LOK KYANG CHEN GYI TSE YOD PAR GYUR LA CHEN DU NA CHE DRAG PA GAG TU MEY PAR GYUR RO Yeah, if the parts are not connected substantially with each other, and if you could remove the parts, remove some of the parts without losing the other parts, or if you could remove the coffee cup without losing the parts, then there must be some substantial parts that are, there must be some substantial whole. YEN LOK CHEN means whole. YEN LOK means parts.

YEN LOK CHEN means whole. Possess four of the parts. And then YEN LOK means parts.

So, oh, well, if the parts are not substantially related to the cup, then there must be a whole which is separate from these particular parts. In other words, you must be able to have a whole coffee cup that doesn't have parts, okay? If the parts are not related to a whole that way, okay?

TSE YOD PAR GYUR LA And if that were the case, then you could never stop the handle of the coffee cup. Or you could, because it's not connected to the coffee cup. Okay, all right.

Usually you break the whole cup, you break the handle. But the handle has existence independent of the coffee cup. Okay, so then I guess there's no way then parts of a cup would be like roaches in my kitchen.

And no matter how many you catch live to Sedona, they come back, okay? So he says, CHE DAG GAG TU MED PA means, in that case, if the handle is not connected to the cup, then the handle would be indestructible. Because if you destroyed the whole cup, you still wouldn't destroy the handle.

Because the handle is independently existent from the cup. If the cup doesn't cover the handle, then you could destroy the cup and not destroy the handle. And then handles would be like roaches in my house.

You could never get rid of handles. Got it? Because destroying the cup doesn't get rid of the handle.

Because the handle is not one with the cup. Okay, cool. And by the way, this all sounds like BS.

But to put it in Nagarjuna terms, by the way, you should come and listen to Nagarjuna number five in November? October. To put it in Nagarjuna terms, these are issues that you should be thinking about because they are real issues.

And if you thought about them for five minutes every day, you would see emptiness directly. And you could serve every living being in the universe at the same time. These are not ridiculous questions.

These are necessary questions to serve people. We're at time again. That's why I timed it that way.

Okay, who's up next, Nikolai? Somebody just said it because I had to look at the schedule. Say, Dr. Seiji. Oh, yeah. Seiji, uh-oh.

[Speaker 2]
Seiji's text.

[Speaker 1]
All right. Uh-oh, we got double quiz. Thanks, Keshla.

That was- Oh! Thank you, Adam. I hope you feel better.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Thanks for sticking it out, Adam. You're a champ. Say hi to my granddaughter.

Tell her to come to Pister Cafe with her dad sometime. Thanks, Ken. See you soon.

Cinco minutos.