Адам Андраде — Книга 2: Логика. Рассеивая тьму, занятие 33

[Speaker 1]
Live stream. Good morning, everybody. Lovely to see you all again.

Good evening. Good afternoon, wherever you are. Someone's at the climbing gym, that's exciting.

Good morning. I like to see that you're getting your workout in while we're translating. Hi.

[Speaker 2]
Hi Nick, good to see you guys.

[Speaker 1]
You too. Thank you. Well, we have another exciting day for you.

I hope many of you got to study with Dr word in his morning classes, super early morning. So thank you word and look forward to hearing you all read your Tibetan, even more better than you have been more fluently. Good morning.

[Speaker 3]
Morning boss.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, you ready Nicholas. I think we're ready. All right.

Good morning. Is it true you moved to I'm still here in Colorado. Same thing.

All right. Here we go. Do you want to say anything about your text in general.

So, I'm currently working on a text, but same a day then you keep on so, and it's supposed to be, I guess a text which comments, and on the seven classic books, written by Master Dharmakirti. In particular, we've been focusing on the difference, just recently between wrong send and cheats in. And so I think that's what we're going to be diving even deeper into this class.

Okay, cool. Exactly. I would say the same.

All right, here we go. Hang on. Okay.

All right. Adam I'm going to go back a few lines just so because it's a big part that starts here. Okay.

So, please read and Nick wants to check you I think. Hey, what's that DBAB? Up.

Up. Yeah, okay. Yeah, then the upper okay good.

It's got a couple of tenses sometimes it's done a bit down the book, and this is done up. Depends on the writer. Okay.

Let me see some. Yeah. So we're going to be talking about.

And by the way, every time I prepare a text for you guys. When we get to these section headers. The Tibetan just says number three and it doesn't tell you what number three is.

So we got to have it in the mix nuts that we just go and get it for you ahead of time. So we make sure we know where we are. As a translator you can ignore these numbers, but then you don't really know where you are.

So, I always put it in bold afterwards. So, do you want to read this. Adam Hang on, let me push it down.

This is the all the sections. Can you read this please. Yeah.

Yeah, good. Okay, by the way, I have a cold so please excuse the noises. SHEL BYA means things you can perceive, or things you can weigh, or things you can consider.

Things that you can consider, which means all the things in the universe. And then all things in the universe can be divided into RANG CAN and CI TZAN. So this whole discussion for Adam's text today is going to be about RANG CAN and CI TZAN.

And he says here, GNYIS SU NGES. What does that mean Adam? GNYIS SU NGES.

It's fixed at two. Yeah, there's only two types, RANG CAN and CI TZAN. There's only these two.

There's no more. I think the crucial thing for understanding the class today is that why is there RANG CAN, which I would call sort of like the actual occurrence of a thing in the world. So like this coffee cup.

The one in my hand is RANG CAN. The actual appearance or the classical example of a thing in the world. And then CI TZAN means the archetype or the thing in your mind of an archetype of a cup.

For example, when your mom taught you the word cup, she kind of installed in your mind a picture of a cup. And every time someone asks you, is this a cup? You go to that database, you go to that file folder and you check the picture of the cup that your mom taught you.

And then you say, yeah, that fits the picture I have in my mind. This is a cup. Because it fits the picture my mom told me was a cup when I was a kid or something like that.

So CI TZAN is this theoretical cup in your mind that you hold in your mind for your whole life. You make small adjustments to it, but mainly it's an archetype in your mind. And then RANG CAN is the actual cup in the world, the cup you have in your hand.

So all things in the universe are either archetypes or actual occurrences of something in the world. And that's closely linked to the process of perception. Why, Adam?

Based on how... Yeah, like a limited... because you're going through this limited process, I think, is maybe what you're...

Here it says NGON GSUM and BYAS PAG. What's that? Because RANG CAN and CI TZAN are also linked to direct and indirect perception.

Yeah, so which one of those two, the picture your mom taught you, or the actual cups you see in the world, is more related to the direct perception of your senses? RANG CAN. Yeah, so that's another way to understand RANG CAN.

If you perceive it with your senses, if you smell it, if you see it, if you hold it, that's a RANG CAN. That's a thing in the world. Okay, you see this cup, right?

And then Geshe-la slowly goes like this. What's Geshe-la holding up above the screen? I think it's a cup.

It's a cup, yeah. And you have a picture in your mind of a cup that you think might be above the screen. Geshe-la, now it's RANG CAN.

And then it became what? CI TZAN. Yeah, it became a CI TZAN.

It became a theoretical cup. When you use logic to see something, you never see the real cup. You just see the picture of the cup in your mind.

And when you use your senses to see something, you see the real cup. That's a big principle in Dharmakirti. There's real things, real examples of things, and then there's theoretical things.

When you use logic to perceive a thing, you see the archetype. And when you use your senses to see something, you're using RANG CAN. You're seeing the actual cup in the world.

That's why we're on the subject of actual cups and theoretical cups. That's why we came to this subject. DRUG PA'I DUN means, how do you establish the cup?

DRUG PA'I DUN here, which is kind of like Siddhartha, by the way. How do you establish the cup? Well, with your direct perception you use a RANG CAN, and with your logic you use a CI TZAN.

He explained that already. He finished that. Then he gave us a draw during the RANG CAN and CI TZAN.

What's that, Adam? A literal explanation of the words. Yeah, he explained CI, he explained RANG.

We finished that. Now we reach the third section, which is RANG CI SO SONG NGO BO BRTEN LA'APA. BRTEN LA'APA means to establish a topic thoroughly.

Talk it over, define it, debate it. So BRTEN LA'APA means to thresh it out. What does it mean, RANG CI, it's standing for?

RANG CAN and CI TZAN. Yeah, RANG CAN and CI TZAN. He's getting tired of saying RANG CAN and CI TZAN.

He says, RANG CI, you know, real mental, something like that. SO SONG means individually. NGO BO means I will give you the essence or I will teach you what is a RANG CAN and what is a CI TZAN.

I'll give you the real detail now. That's where we are. That's where we are in Adam's text.

To understand logic, it's extremely important because just to live in this world, to survive in this world, you've got to use RANG CANS. You've got to use your direct perceptions. You have to be very observant with your direct perceptions to survive in business, to survive in a family.

You've got to have good sense powers. And then CI TZAN means to survive in the world, you've got to have the ability to figure out something that you can't see directly. You must have that ability.

If you lack these two abilities, you're basically in trouble. Your life will be easier if you're very observant with your senses and if you're very sharp with your logic. Then you can throw in, oftentimes in the scriptures, they throw in a third element, which I like to call the database.

That means if you have a deep well of experiences in your life that you can call on, which is kind of like DRAG PA'I TSEMA. It's like history. For example, we were studying strategy in university this week.

We were discussing the idea of strategy in business. First of all, a strategist has to have very good physical senses. They have to be observant with their physical senses.

Secondly, a strategist has to be sharp with their reasoning. They have to figure out where the market's going, what might happen, things like that. But thirdly, they have to have a deep database in their mind of past cases, historical strategies that people have used through history.

Great generals, for example, typically they love to study battles from a thousand years ago or they have a huge database of actual cases in their mind. That's the idea here. To survive in the world and to flourish in the world, you need all of your senses.

You need to study those senses. Let's read this one, Adam. DANG PO LA TSE NI ZHES PA DANG, TSE ZHING NGOS SONG BA NI First we're going to do the TSE NI.

What's that? The definition? Of wrong sense and cheat sense.

Yeah, wrong cheat. Of actual cases and theoretical cases. Then we're going to NGOS SONG BA, TSEN ZHIS.

To identify a classical example. Nice. We're going to say, oh, this is a cob, this is the idea of a cob.

Here's the first one, the definition. Please read. DANG PO NI, SHIN DAG YOD DU RANG BZHIN MANG BRAS PAR NE PA DANG, DUN CHE NUS PA SOGS RANG BZHIN GYI TSE NI DOD DUG PA MI TE ROL First of all, what can we say about this definition?

He ends it with MI TE. That's incorrect. You want to know, I'll give you the wrong one.

I'll give you the wrong definition. I'll give you the definition of the things that we don't agree to. Sorry, my computer is being cranky.

Don't do that. All right. Come on, honey bunny.

All right. Yeah. First he says, here's the classic definition.

He already says MI TE. I don't agree with it. And Shendak unidentified other people, they say if an object exists in the world and its YOD is MANG BRAS PAR, and its DU is MANG BRAS PAR, and its RANG BZHIN is MANG BRAS PAR, that's RANG BZHIN.

Okay. If it's unmixed in place and nature. Yeah.

If an object has a unique space in geography, in the physical world, if it has a unique space in time, and if it has a unique space in nature, nobody else is quite a cup. MA DE PA means it has its own unique, what do you call it, delineated space in the world. That's the definition of RANG BZHIN.

That's a cup in the world. It's cut off from the other objects in the world by time, by place, and by nature. And he says, I don't like that definition.

It sucks. MI TE means it sucks. DUN CES NER PA means that other guys come and say, no, no, no.

The definition of the actual thing in the world is anything which does something is an actual thing in the world. Anything which performs its own function, that's the definition of an actual thing in the world. According to that definition, something like anger or compassion could also be RANG BZHIN because it has its own definition.

It functions. It does something. Anger does something.

Compassion does something. Somebody tries to say, one guy says the thing in the world means the thing that has its own definition. It's separate from other things in time, space, and nature.

And then the other guy says, no, no, no. If something does something, it's RANG BZHIN. It's a real thing in the world.

If something is just theoretical, that's CI TSEN. It doesn't do anything. And we say, who says MI TE?

That's the interesting thing here, Adam. Who said I don't agree? I would go with our first assumption.

It was Kidrupje. Yeah, I would also agree. Because what we describe, that the thing has its own unique outline in space, time, and nature, that sounds pretty good to me in the second school.

And to say this is a real thing in the universe because it does something, that sounds okay to me in the second school. So whoever said I don't like that, I agree with you. I think it's Kidrupje and probably Prasangika.

Let's go to the next sentence. Adam, can you read? Yes.

Nick is checking. Come on. Good.

Now, who's talking is Kidrupje. He says, if we're going to put on our witch hat, Upper Middle Way. Yeah, if we're going to put on our Ultimate Middle Way hat, the rongsen you guys describe, the actual thing in the world that you guys describe, is exactly our...

The thing that we deny.

[Speaker 3]
Gotcha!

[Speaker 1]
That's what we believe is the stupidest thing in the world. That's a self-existent thing. Your rongsen, your actual cup in the world, its own unique time, space, nature, it performs a function from its own side.

Your definition of reality is exactly our definition of non-reality, of gaccha. What's gaccha, Adam? It's the object that we refute, the thing that we deny to exist.

Yeah. In plain English, it's the thing that... The emptiness is empty of.

Yeah, the thing that emptiness is empty of. When you say there's emptiness in front of me, the thing that's not there is a thing that could exist in and of itself, from its own side, in the world, defined with its own edges, have its own nature, its own time, its own definition, its own function, unique function. That's exactly what we say doesn't exist.

Okay? And the absence of that in our school is... It's emptiness.

That's what emptiness is, okay? So this thing, nge mawa. What's nge mawa?

The functionalist. Which covers three schools. Who are they?

The lower three. Yeah. Abhidharma school.

The sutras and mandalas. Yeah. Basically, they are called functionalists.

Why, Adam? Because they believe that a thing exists ultimately if it performs a function. Yeah, and that's what 99.999% of all human beings believe. If this thing can hold coffee, it's a cup. And that's what makes it a cup. In no way is it coming from me.

It exists out there. It's defined by its function. Because it can hold coffee, it deserves to be a thing in the world.

It's not waiting for me to perceive it as a coffee cup. Okay? And that's the wrong view of the three lower schools together.

And it's the wrong view of the entire universe. Okay? If it does something, it's real.

By the way, the only reason this cup holds coffee in the higher school, Adam, is... No, because you have the karma to see it do so. Which implies I, in the past...

You gave somebody something to hold their beverage in.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
I shared my coffee in the past. The only reason there's a coffee cup here is because I shared my coffee in the cup. That's the highest viewpoint.

There's no reality to this cup from its own side. It only exists because I shared with other people in the past. And that should overcome our natural tendency not to share the things we really want.

If you understand that, you become a very giving person. And you take risks to help other people. All right.

RANG BZHIN GYIS BSTAN DANG BKAG PA BSTAN DANG PAR BSTAN PA In fact, ultimate reality, according to us, higher mental way, is that your idea of the opposite of the opposite. You can also describe, in the logic schools, you can describe a cup in the world as the opposite of all things which is not the cup. That's called the lady in the German train station.

Right, Utta? You know this story. What do you call it?

By a process of elimination, you come to the person who has your train tickets. You cancel people in the train station who don't have the right color coat, who are the wrong height, who are male or female. And according to the logic schools, this cup is a dundok.

Dundok means it's the opposite of an opposite. If you take all the things in the world which are not cups and you cancel them, what you have left is a perfect, a perfect defined cup. It's like they think it's some kind of shining, perfect cup.

And it kind of is. And by the way, these ideas are not crazy. They are the basis of higher middle way.

They are not some other school which is stupid. They are the other school which turned into the middle way. They are another process in the evolution of human thinking.

And I would say scientists are pretty much at the second school, at first and second school. And if science can get to the fourth school, they would try to develop products that helps people. And that would be, and profit would not be the motivation.

It would be how much does it help people, okay? If you want it to be a successful company. All right.

Let's do one more. Adam, you want to pick on somebody? Because it's so fun.

Hold the participants here. Just pick a name, even if you don't know them. Okay.

Li Xiuping? Li? What about Lina?

Lina Renchen? You guys got to turn on your microphone. I'll try.

Yay. Adam, you're checking. Okay.

Okay. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Lina, do you want to read? Okay. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Dung Luo.

[Speaker 2]
Oma Dung. You are. Okay.

Ne. Dung. Yang.

Chi Ma.

[Speaker 1]
Dru. Pa.

[Speaker 2]
Dru. Pa. Dung.

Pa. Yin La. Yin La.

[Speaker 1]
Hi. Yay. Thank you.

Thank you. Okay, cool. The first sentence is always the most painful.

All right, DE PHYIR NGOS MANG BA. Who's NGOS MANG BA, Adam? The functionalists.

The first day of school. So the DUN DOG, which they DOD PA... How did we want to say that again?

The opposite of the opposite. The opposite of everything that the cup is not. The opposite of everything that the cup is not.

This idea that the second school, well, that the lower three schools have, that the cup is the opposite of everything that it is not, that's exactly SHI MA DROD PA according to the Talgir. Yeah, that's exactly the thing that we're saying is not established. Yeah, good.

Yeah, that the thing you think is real, what you define as real, the cup is the opposite of all that's not the cup, is exactly what we say is a self-existing thing, and it doesn't even exist. THA GNYED DU, Adam. In name only.

Yeah, you can't even talk about things like that, much less exist that way, okay? Even talking about things like that is ridiculous according to the higher school. When you say things are real because they do something from their side, that's like ultimate stupid according to Prasangika, okay?

And it's human nature. We all believe it. We all believe it.

Even while we're talking about it, we believe it. Okay, Adam, who are you going to pick on next? Oh yeah, that's right, I got it.

Eleanor? Do we have an Eleanor who wants to help us? Elena?

Isabel? Yes.

[Speaker 2]
Don't change name.

[Speaker 1]
Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Okay cool.

[Speaker 1]
All right here, now I'm a I'm a Prasangika, I'm a highest Buddhist. And I say, look, it is true that things perform... I'm sorry, your idea that the cup is the opposite of all that it's not, even nominally, is completely wrong.

To say it exists out there, independent of my karma, is completely wrong. Then you can imagine the second school guy saying, well, then you don't accept that a cup can hold coffee? You don't accept that a cup can function?

If you call us functionalists in a derogatory way, then I guess you don't accept that things can do anything. And then K2J says, excuse me, the concept that a thing could be discrete in location, the concept that a thing could be discrete in time, the concept that a thing could have a discrete nature that the things around it don't have, and the concept that something can perform a function, then Kailin... They're all things that we accept.

We totally accept it. We totally accept it. Then they're confused.

They're like, but you just complained about us because we accepted that. And there's a beautiful, beautiful idea in the highest middle way. The edge between what is cup and what is not cup, the edge between my finger and the cup is actually the edge of two atoms.

If you go down, down, down, down, down, there's an edge between the atoms of my fingernail and the edge of the atoms in the cup. And somewhere there's a first front atom on my fingernail is touching the first front atom on the edge of the cup, and they're making contact. And that's what these other schools believe.

And the higher middle way says that edge is false. There is no edge. If atoms have an edge, they got to have two edges.

They're not the smallest thing in the universe anymore. Then they have space. Then they have width.

The whole idea of science is mistaken. Even the idea of an atom is mistaken. Can this thing be located in space in a unique place?

Can this thing be located in a unique time? Can this thing have its unique nature that the hand and the eyeglasses don't have? Yes.

But where is it coming from? Where are the lines coming from? Where are the borders coming from?

They're coming from how you treated other people. Only. Only.

There's no objective existence. There's no reality to the atoms and molecules that science deals with. They don't exist.

It's all wrong. It's all mistaken. The whole universe is morals-driven, ethics-driven.

The existence of the universe is coming from ethical behavior, and only that. So, do we accept a cup in its own place? Sure.

Do you accept a cup in its own time? Yes. Do you accept that the cup has a nature that the eyeglasses don't have?

Yes. Do you accept that the cup can do something? Yes.

Didn't you just say you don't accept that? Listen, we just accept them because they are coming from our seeds. You don't believe they're coming from how you treat other people.

That's all. That's all. We're fine with that stuff.

But you forgot to say it's coming from how you treat other people. That's our problem with you guys. Okay, cool.

It's very beautiful. It's really beautiful. All right, now we're ready to start the class.

Adam, you want to pick on somebody new? Yeah, let's find somebody to pick on here. Bella?

Okay, let's try Katie. Katie Chu?

[Speaker 2]
Yes. Katie is here.

[Speaker 1]
Can you help us do 360?

[Speaker 2]
Okay, I will try.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you.

[Speaker 2]
DE NA DE LTAR RAB GYI RANG SEMS KYI SEMS KYI YIN GYI SEMS NI MIN NO Very good.

[Speaker 1]
Nice reading. Must be one of the world's good students. So look, we can talk about...

You can talk about cups being examples of cups in the world. You can talk about cups that way. SEMS SHI You can talk about RANG SEMS. You can talk about RANG SEMS as meaning an example of the thing in the world. We don't have a problem with that. That's okay. But you cannot define it as a thing in the world from its own side.

You can't define it that way. That's the wrong definition. Is it an example of a cup?

Yes. Is it definitively an example of a cup? If you mean from its own side, no, it's not.

Okay, that's all. That's his final statement. Now we get to...

Just on 361 there again. It would have been better to have this last section here. But that is not the definition?

Yeah, you could say... You're on the right track. A cup is a good example.

But it does not exist by definition. That's wrong. That part's wrong.

The higher schools can accept the idea of a cup in the world, but you just have to be clear where it comes from. Yeah. Cool.

Okay, Adam, who are you going to pick on next? This is so fun. He has a lot of experience getting Ava to read books and stuff.

That's what he does all day, actually. Sophie? Sophie?

Persis? Hello. Hi.

Can you help us with 362?

[Speaker 2]
Thank you. Rang bui rang meh?

[Speaker 1]
Rang sen. Rang bui rang sen.

[Speaker 2]
Rang bui rang sen gi sen ni dok pey hang?

[Speaker 1]
Tak.

[Speaker 2]
Tak mean pak. Rang tok.

[Speaker 1]
Rang nguh. Rang nguh ney.

[Speaker 2]
Rang nguh ney tok mok ma yin pey.

[Speaker 1]
Mok ma yin pey.

[Speaker 2]
Mok ma yin pey rang hing duk ney pai tok pok.

[Speaker 3]
Ngupo. Thank you. Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you. Hey, you guys want to see my granddaughter? No.

Wait a minute. Here we go. That's Adam's daughter.

Oh my gosh, she's so cute. Beautiful. She's getting bigger.

Okay, hang on, I got one more here. Grandpa has to show off his grandkids. Where is that?

Here we go. Finally, word sent me a picture. That's Sushumna.

Yeah. I got to get a hat like that. It's better when you have a bald head, right, Sushumna?

Okay. Okay, rang nuk ney. Who's rang nuk, Adam?

We got to be careful here. Who's rang nuk, Adam? Our own position.

Who's us? Who's us? Well, concerning the context of this book, I would say that our own position is that which is the second schools.

Exactly. I agree with you. I agree with you.

Okay, so here's the definition of a thing in the world from this school, which we already said the highest school is not going to agree with. Okay, but here's the definition. What's the definition of a thing in the world?

Cool. Yeah, what I used here was it's not a creation. Good, perfect.

Yeah. According to the second school, this cup is not being created by your karmic seeds. It's not a projection of your mind.

It has a real reality out there in the world. It is not coming from concepts in your mind that are put in your mind by how you treat other people. So it's the opposite of the highest school.

Then it's got its own rung shin. Yeah, it resides in its own unique basic nature. It has its own nature.

Nobody else has that nature. And that nature is emanating from the inside of it somehow. That's all.

It's not a creation of me. I did not make the pen. The pen is not coming from me.

The pen has reality out there. If I die tomorrow, that pen is still going to be on the table. Don't tell me it's coming from me.

Okay, all right. By the way, it's what we really believe, no matter how much philosophy we study. Yes, Shilpa?

Yeah. As presenting a wrong loop, did Kejap Jai put tok without the S to be pejorative? When you say tokpay takpa, which means made up by the mind, you don't use the tok which means to realize.

You use the tok which means to imagine. That's all. So even if it was correct, we would put tokpay takpa without an S?

Yeah. Okay, thank you. Exactly, exactly.

In the higher middle way, tokpay takpa is exactly correct. Okay, thank you. That's a good question.

I mean, sometimes you're asking a good question. Not very often. Not often.

All right, Adam, you go ahead. Oh, you got to pick on somebody. Gyalse?

Gyalse. All righty. Hey Venerable Gyalse, that looks like a new beautiful house.

I'm not sure. She just finished building her house. She and Melarepa had similar experience building his nine-story tower.

All right. What's that, Adam? What's a senshi of a rongsen?

A classical example of an actual object. Yeah, let me give you a real rongsen. What's the senshi that Grandpa's been using all day?

Coffee cup, bumpa. I've been using coffee cup. By the way, Ben is from the Baptist Church down the road where they took me there one day.

Now that I'm a famous person in the town. Thank you. Senshi Ngoziwuni.

And I'm a second school guy. And I'm saying to you, this cup has its own unique position in you. Place.

In space, yeah. And this cup has its own unique position in you. Time.

And this cup has its own self-delineated rongsen. Nature. And that makes it a rongsen.

That makes it a real thing in the world. I didn't define it. I didn't make the colors.

I didn't put it in this moment. It occupies its own special moment from its own side. We have to say from its own side.

That's second school. That's second school. And that's kind of a real thing.

We didn't get to Chitsen yet. Can I ask a question? Yeah.

Throughout the first 300 sections in this book... Don't torture me. We were floating with rongsen in between a physical manifestation of the archetype and...

Physical is a little tricky because you can have mental functions. This is what we ran into whenever I started to go back and treat the drashie from the last section. Yeah.

I was kind of forced to pick something. So I went with definitive object. For some reason, it doesn't feel right.

But I was wondering if you had any words on maybe what we could use, just actual object, real object? I think you could use words like that. What do you call that, Ben Kramer?

For the time being? Provisionally? Provisionally, yeah.

[Speaker 3]
Oh, provisionally, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
I think we can have kind of longer terms, longer expressions that we use, like the real world or something. And then for the actual book translation, we'll pick something academic. When you're doing your preliminary translation, rongsen, I would say the actual manifestation of the thing in the world or something like that.

The actual thing. Actual thing. Make it short.

Short is always better. Actual object. I think actual is pretty good.

Two syllables. Okay. This is a long one, Adam.

Someone you really don't like could do it. Okay. Or somebody I really do like.

Yeah, maybe you want them to learn something. Daniel? Daniel Garcia?

Whoa. Hi, I'm here. The Tsar of Peachtree.

Can you help us with 364?

[Speaker 3]
Sure, yeah. I'll try. Okay.

Okay. Uh-oh.

[Speaker 1]
I'm sorry. Hang on.

[Speaker 3]
What a new computer. That's an extra challenge.

[Speaker 1]
I've got a new computer. We're still getting to know each other. Sorry, Adam.

Sorry, Daniel. Go ahead.

[Speaker 3]
What's that one, Adam? K-H-R-A?

[Speaker 1]
Trawo.

[Speaker 3]
Okay. What's that one? Sungne.

Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
Nice. So we had it occupies its own unique space. It occupies its own unique space.

It occupies its own unique time. And it occupies its own unique nature. And somebody said, dun la here in Tibetan, dun la means, hey, you guys want to know what I mean?

When I say, what's the meaning? When I say unique time, unique place, unique nature. Shendaki.

Shendaki means... Other guys say. Other guys say.

Now, who other? We don't know. Is it some kind of dumb second school guys?

I don't know. Somebody says, and by the way, this mandepa is extremely important in higher middle way. The idea of a line that separates things from other things is totally coming from your mind.

And things are delineated by your karma. Two people can hear a Neil Young song and have totally different reactions. The lines are coming from you.

And the second school just cannot handle that. They cannot accept that. So here's what a second school guy would say.

Shar na yu na, nub na me. Not arising, staying, or vanishing? Nice guess.

This is a direction. These two are directions. If it's not east.

East or west. I was trying to pair the Shar na yu na. If it's not east, it's staying here or in the west.

If it's not east, it's in the west. When we say it's occupying its own position, we say if it's in the east part of the table, it happens not to be on the west part of the table. That's what unique position means.

And they don't mix. They can't overlap. Now, as far as two.

KASA and TI RING. Yesterday and today. The cup that was here yesterday is not the cup that is here today.

This cup has its own unique... It's cut off temporarily from the cup of yesterday. The cup of today is divided from the cup of yesterday.

That division is natural. It's not coming from me. TI RING MAG ZUNG.

That's what we mean when we say it occupies its own unique time. What do you mean when you say it occupies its own unique nature? Its own unique nature.

This is hard. I think it means checkered and striped. I think it means checkered and striped.

We had trouble way back in the Mind Only text of checkerboard. Look, if you have a piece of cloth, it has a checkerboard pattern on it. Its nature is basically different from another piece.

If you have a blouse or a dress which is checkered, its nature cannot overlap with a blouse or a dress which is striped. They're just basically different. They're a different nature.

That's what we mean. Now, ZUNG means that's their opinion. That's their opinion.

Now, what's going to happen, Adam? We're going to get a conflict. Yeah, someone's going to say, wait, wait, I disagree.

Somebody's going to have a debate here. Let's go look at it. The GOR NAG and the NAG DGOR...

Yeah, just think of it as checkered and striped. That's all. Okay, well, I was just wondering here because in your notes, it says that it doesn't have any mention of stripes.

Yeah, I studied it deeply. Okay, so it doesn't just mean black tent. It means striped clothing.

No, that's all that Sar Chandra Das has, but I worked on it. Checkered as opposed to striped. That's so striking, right?

That's what it's supposed to be. Okay. Yeah.

Wasn't TIRING misspelled? Yeah, well, nowadays, TIRING, they would spell it TIRING. In a local dialect, they would say TIRING.

Oh. That's dialect. It kind of tells you where the author's from, actually.

But it's an acceptable substitute, yeah. Thank you. Did it come from deeding, like here?

Probably it did. Probably it did, yeah, in the old days. Okay, Adam, this one is a killer.

Pick somebody. Oh, yeah. Give them a headache for the whole day.

How about Dinara? Ooh, watch out for Dinara. She's good at it.

Yeah. Hi. Dinara, can you help us?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, do you hear me?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, we're on 360.

[Speaker 2]
Mm-hmm. My. My.

My. My. My.

My. My. My.

My. My. My.

My. My. My.

My. My. My.

My. My. My.

My. My. My.

My.

[Speaker 1]
My. My. My.

My. My. My.

My. My. Okay.

[Speaker 3]
Oh.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Okay. Oh, okay, now, you guys, anybody remember the special meaning of selva?

So, being a member of a group. Yeah, well, you told us. Yeah, to be a member of a set.

So, generally, selva means what? Clear, or... Clear, yeah.

What's usel mean? Clear light. Clear light, yeah.

So, you know, normal people, when they see selva, they think clear. And in logic, in the study of logic, selva refers to the member of a set, and it's opposed to chi. It's actual things versus mental images thereof.

Yeah, but in this, in this usage, chi means the set, and selva means the member. Right, right, right, right, yeah. So, it's kind of shading into a different meaning of chi.

Chi as car, and then it's selvas, our Toyotas, you know, etc. The real car, yeah. Selva duncik...

Sorry. Selva duncik cejar. Yeah, exactly, nice, nice.

Selva dang chedrak duncik. Selva dang chedrak duncik. What did you just say, Adam?

That selva and chedrak are synonymous, or essentially referring to the same set of things. Yeah, members of a set, members of a group. Okay, so here, jesudroha means to go over a set of things, or to exist over a set of things.

Car, the word car, the concept car, jesudrohas, all the other cars, all the real cars in the world. So, it kind of sits at the top. Jesudroha means it sits at the top of the food chain.

Okay, so, he says, ngopo dang bumaso ranggisawa la jesudroha chir. If a thing sits at the top of a set of things, it has to be a... Baochitsen.

Yeah, it has to be a chi, it has to be a chi. Okay, so here's some weirdo debaters. These are weirdos, and they have a really weird idea.

They say, look, can you refer to the group of all functioning things in the world? Yes. Can you refer to the group of all vases in the world, or coffee cups in the world?

Yes. So, is there a thing called things, and is there a thing called cups? And you say, yes.

Yes. Okay, so is that a rangtsen or a chitsen?

[Speaker 3]
Sounds like a chitsen.

[Speaker 1]
It's a chitsen. It's the name of the whole group. Okay, cups, things.

He says, if it has its own members, then rangtsen mayin.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, that's not an actual object.

[Speaker 1]
Then it's not the actual object, it's a chitsen. We're over time. Okay, let's stop there.

You can translate the rest of this, and 361, and 362. And by the way, this guy's going into dangerous territory. If there's a thing called cups, if there's a thing called things, then isn't that a chitsen?

Isn't that a carcass? Then isn't it a carpenter? Okay, he's going there.

All right, good job, Adam. You're hanging in there. By the way, Adam's last book became DCI Advanced Level 1, and it was a big hit.

And thank you for that. Nick has a comment. Oh, no, I think it was two, wasn't it?

Oh, was it? Yeah, you're right. I think so.

Yeah, you're right. Do you want to, Nick, explain what's going to happen now? Well, we're going to take a five-minute break.

Sorry, eight-minute break. And then we'll have another class, which... Q&A with Sugeng.

With Sugeng, yes, yes. Thank you. A Q&A with Sugeng.

Okay. Thank you, Sugeng. And then after that, still waiting for him to double confirm because it's morning, but we are scheduled to have yoga with John Brady.

So I'm going to give him a call right now. He's probably meditating deeply at the moment. Morning for John Brady can be afternoon for other people.

Good point. All right, well, thank you so much, and thank you, Sugeng, for giving a Q&A today, asking the toughest questions that you can think of. Get those out of the way.

See you soon. Okay, see you guys.