Адам Андраде — Книга 2: Логика. Рассеивая тьму, занятие 17

[Speaker 3]
TEN ZHIG YIN GYI LUS YONG GZUG TSOG PA MIN LA KHA'I YANG TEN ZHIG GZIG PA DANG, GZHEL PA THAG PA RANG DON LAS DANG, RGYUD GZHAN GRUB PA NGON GSUM LAS DANG, TSUL RIGS NI GZHAN DON LAS LAS GRUB PA YIN NO Nice, nice pronunciation, quite good actually. I've had a lot of years of practice.

[Speaker 1]
Well, that's a muck job. But anyway, I appreciate that you're pronouncing so well. DE'I DUN GYI RTEN GYI LHAG MA BZHIN NI The other four classical commentaries of the group of seven, they are like tripa, they are like...

Nick, we worked this out in Taiwan once, I remember. Which one? Tripa.

Extensions, or in this case it's talking about them being like extensions of those other... Yeah, they're like extensions of the first three books of the seven. And we call them ancillary or branch commentaries.

Because they, but, GYI, but, they are not YONG GZUG. They're not complete in and of themselves. Yeah, they're not self-standing works.

Well, he's going to say right now. RTEN GZIGS GYIS PA, the drop of reasoning, and the examination of relationships, they are just extensions of the chapter on logic that helps you personally. That's the chapter in the Pramana-vartika.

So what he's saying is that these other four books are just extensions of particular chapters from the Pramana-vartika, and that's why they're not self-standing. So, the examination of relationships, and the drop of syllogisms really, the discussion of syllogisms, those are extensions of the chapter in the Pramana-vartika called the chapter for one's own purposes. And then GYU BZHIN DROD PA, what's that mean, you guys?

Other people's existence. Yeah, the proof of other people's mind streams, which we studied one pleasant night with our sponsor until three o'clock in the morning. The proof of other mind streams, GYU BZHIN DROD PA, it's an extension of what?

That's not the chapter for others. The chapter on MUN TSUM, somewhere.

[Speaker 2]
I see, right on direct perception.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, the chapter on direct perception. And then the study of how to debate or argument is an extension of GZHAN DON GNYIS.

[Speaker 2]
For the good of others.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, the chapter which is meant to teach you how to help others. I gave you the seven names of these books again, just so you could make a good footnote, Adam. Okay.

I was thinking Dr. Kramer. And let me see if I can find somebody. A word, I guess.

Okay, here we go.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Good, okay.

[Speaker 1]
And by the way, this is not just some kind of dry review of the four chapters of the Pramanavarttika. The division into four chapters of the Pramanavarttika is a hot topic. It's bitterly debated.

So I guess Khedavje wants to say his version. So here we go. Ben.

RGYUD ZHIG BYUNG BA CI LTAR RGYUD ZHIG BYUNG BA CI LTAR The...

[Speaker 2]
Oh, if you want to divide it into... Yeah, there are four chapters?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you got four chapters happening here.

[Speaker 2]
CI LTAR Yeah, why? CI LTAR, why?

[Speaker 1]
What is that?

[Speaker 2]
What's with the four?

[Speaker 1]
Nice, what's the point of the four chapters? Four chapters.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Well, we got this one chapter called... SHOD PAR GYUR PA'I LUS Say that again, Geshe-la?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, that wasn't what I said.

[Speaker 1]
We got one chapter called SEMA GYUR PA'I LUS Oh, you went down to the bottom, that surprised us. Yeah, the chapter which proves... The chapter which proves what?

[Speaker 2]
Just proves accurate perception.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, but we're gonna find out it's not accurate perception.

[Speaker 2]
They're gonna be SEMA GYUR PA'I LUS.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, exactly. You want to explain the difference, Ben? Because it's very, very important right now, in this moment.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, SEMA is an accurate perception, which is a state of mind. SEMA GYUR PA'I LUS is a person who is accurate in the sense that they cannot have a thought that is inaccurate.

[Speaker 1]
Good. I like to say, you know, there's this expression in English, he's a person who can never lie. He's a person who can never say anything a lie.

Alright. Now the purpose of that chapter, which is called proving accurate, right? Proving accuracy.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, proving the accuracy, okay.

[Speaker 1]
The purpose of this chapter is to prove that the tenpa and the tenpa are kyun me pa ben.

[Speaker 2]
The proof that the teacher and the teachings are flawless.

[Speaker 1]
Good, and that's the gyur ja tso of this tenchu.

[Speaker 2]
That's the purpose of this... well, this book, but we're just talking about the chapter, right?

[Speaker 1]
No, he's kind of pushing it. He says actually that's the purpose of the whole book.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
So, like Ben, I'm asking you mainly because you're also on this topic. If you were going to sell logic study to somebody, here's another angle you could take. Do you see another angle here?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Well, yeah, it depends on who we're selling to, but if we're selling to someone who would like to become perfect themselves, then we have to establish that such a state could even exist, and that there are instructions in this world that could lead them there.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, perfect answer. Perfect answer. Nice.

Okay, so look, we're not trying to teach you syllogisms. We're trying to establish that there is such a thing as getting out of this world. I was in this position in the last few days.

I was spending many hours at somebody's deathbed, surrounded by people who don't have any other options. Really, if you said, look, I have a book in my hand that can prove there's another way, that's the purpose of this book. This book is not a logic book, and it's not to study the forms of logic or something like that.

We do study the forms of logic, but only to establish what?

[Speaker 2]
That there's a purpose for that logic.

[Speaker 1]
And there's a way out. And it becomes important when you're sitting with somebody dying for a few days. The discussion becomes important.

Okay, especially important. Okay, therefore, we should have a chapter called Proving Sema. Unboobable.

Unboobable. All right. Dr. Kramer, you choose the next victim and check her.

[Speaker 2]
I see Utpala's face on my screen. And how about Tim to check her, is the next person on my screen.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, cool.

[Speaker 3]
dukpa dang tenpa kinmeypar tsemek druppay yang ten zik yang dak gi go ne drupp go pay dek ten la mekpa la rang dun lup ten la ten la, good.

[Speaker 1]
What's the yang here? Proving that the teaching of Buddhism and the teacher who taught it are kinmey. Flawless.

Flawless. That also, that in turn, so this yang will translate as in turn. Now that depends on proving it.

drupp go. You have to prove it to yourself. If you want to prove it to yourself that Buddhism is correct, then you're going to have to do it by using go ne, okay?

A ten zik yang dak. What's that Utpala?

[Speaker 3]
A perfect ten word.

[Speaker 2]
Correct reason.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, ten zik means like syllogisms.

[Speaker 3]
Perfect syllogisms.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, ten zik refers to the whole syllogism. So you're going to have to use good reasoning, okay? You're going to have to think it out clearly, okay?

Therefore, to teach you what is clear thinking, we have the rang dun lup, the chapter for your own purposes. Okay, that's a mayinga.

[Speaker 2]
That's not what the shen dun lyu is for.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it just means, look, if you have a chapter called topics that are meant to benefit you, then it makes sense that there'll be another chapter called...

[Speaker 2]
Oh, that benefit other people.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, topics that you use to help other people, and that referred to the great four divisions we had the other day.

[Speaker 3]
Right. In what text?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, using direct perception and indirect perception to help yourself understand Buddhism, and how to avoid mistakes and indirect perception. And then for the sake of other people, same thing. Sun Jin and Dupa.

Logic for proving things. Logic for proving your position, and logic for proving their positions wrong. And what was the important brother of those two?

[Speaker 2]
Doing those two wrong.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Boy, wouldn't that be useful, a study of how to avoid bad logic yourself. So far we have two chapters.

Here's the next one. Utpala, can you choose the next victims?

[Speaker 3]
Sure, Venerable Chunzang and... Let's see. Venerable Kadingchik.

Yay.

[Speaker 1]
Good. Now, this is a very profound sentence for Dr. Kramer, for example. If you want to prove that your logic is good, like we should go to the Japanese restaurant tonight, take the Japanese restaurant, we should go there tonight because it has good food, okay?

If you want to prove that your syllogism is correct, you're going to have to prove what?

[Speaker 2]
The tsul sum, the three relationships.

[Speaker 1]
Now, there's a position that people take that in the end, tar, okay? In the end, the tsul sum have to be established by mun sum.

[Speaker 2]
Right.

[Speaker 1]
Explain.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, I mean, I'm guessing I can explain, but my hunch is that eventually it all comes down to something that you have seen yourself and you can say, yeah, I know something because I see this and I see this and that implies something else, but I have to see this and see this.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, great, great, great. In the end, logical argument comes down to what did you really see and hear and taste, okay? And that's a sort of very profound idea, that all the logic in the world eventually comes down to what did you actually see yourself and perceive yourself, okay?

So, mun sum, I would say keys, by the way, Drupal or Raklepe, confirming the validity of logic, even if you're just trying to discuss why you should go to the Japanese restaurant, depends in the end, ultimately it depends on what?

[Speaker 2]
What you have seen yourself.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and that helps you to confirm the three relationships, tsul sum, drupal, okay? Tsul sum, drupal. Give me numbers, Ben.

[Speaker 2]
Three relationships.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, in the Japanese restaurant example.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, right, so just to right confirm, right? We should go to the Japanese restaurants because it's yummy? Yep.

Cool. The first relationship is that the Japanese restaurant is yummy.

[Speaker 1]
Good, and with numbers.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, one, right? The first test is that it is true to say about number, three is true to say about number one. It's true to say it's yummy about the Japanese restaurant.

[Speaker 1]
Good, right. One is three.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, one is three. Cool, fine, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Part number one of the argument is part number three. The restaurant does have yummy food, okay?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. If a thing is three, then it must be two. If a thing is yummy, we got to go there.

[Speaker 1]
Yay, and what's the third one?

[Speaker 2]
If a thing is not two, then it sure as heck ain't three. If it ain't someplace we got to go, it ain't yummy.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, which means you're challenging your wife. You're challenging your wife. If she says, I don't feel like going, then you can come back with, I guess you...

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, oh, what, you don't think it's yummy?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you don't like good food?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
We already established it's yummy. She's not debating that. The yummy is not the dupe teacher.

The yummy is the dak yang dak.

[Speaker 2]
Well, it depends on whether she said dharma druk or khyabpa marjung. I don't know what you said.

[Speaker 1]
I'll buy that. All right, here we go. LUN CHEN TZAM BAR BSTAN LA BAD PA'I RLUN GSUM NUS The main chapter that treats that, that teaches us what is direct perception, which is necessary for confirming the three parts, right?

She has to taste the food. It's yummy, right? Like that.

That's called the chapter on direct perception. Okay? So, so far we have three chapters.

I think Kat was going to choose the next person.

[Speaker 3]
Let's see who's here. Well, let's pick one. He's translating.

Okay. How about Aldo? Yay.

And how about Isabel?

[Speaker 1]
Ooh!

[Speaker 3]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, here we go. Aldo?

[Speaker 2]
Okay, I'll try my best. RANG NGI NGA PA DE CHEN LA TUNG PE I think everyone is so happy about this logic that they just can't correct it.

[Speaker 3]
He's the first one to correct his corrector.

[Speaker 1]
Nice, not bad, not bad. Sounds like you're chasing after Hasso there. By the way you guys, I'll never forget the night that I watched Hasso destroy two Geshe candidates in a trip.

That was pretty awesome. I will tell that story till I die, Hasso. The day that Mexico defeated the Geshes.

What I have perceived by myself, what I have ascertained by myself, I should teach it to others. And there's methods for doing that. And to set forth those methods, tenla benpa, we have the final chapter called The Chapter for the Benefit of Others, shen dun nyu.

Now I thought I would show you guys the... Let's look at the chapters. Let's just review.

Chapter one is supposed to be about proving the idea of accuracy.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, or that the teacher is accurate.

[Speaker 1]
Someone could be accurate. So the whole point of the first chapter he mentioned was proving that it's possible that there's a person who is a hundred percent correct all the time, just like we always think we are in a marriage, right?

[Speaker 2]
We're calling the chapter tsema, but is the chapter not tumbala tsema?

[Speaker 1]
We're getting there. Okay, and the second chapter is we have to prove things to ourselves first. Oh sorry, if we want to prove that the teacher and the teachings are perfect, first we're going to have to use reasons, and therefore we call it The Chapter for Ourselves.

Reasons we can... Now you guys got to understand this about the chapter on reasons. These are reasons that you say to whom?

[Speaker 2]
To me.

[Speaker 1]
To me. Okay, so a big part of the logic scriptures, a big part of this logic books, is learning how to talk to yourself, and make sure that you're not crazy, you know, how to prove things to yourself. So that chapter is called The Chapter for You.

Now the next chapter is called The Chapter on Direct Perception. Why should The Chapter on Direct Perception follow The Chapter for You?

[Speaker 2]
Because you have to see the things that you're employing as parts of the three tests.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you got to confirm your arguments to who?

[Speaker 3]
Yourself.

[Speaker 1]
Yourself. By using direct perception. Does this match, you know, is the food at the Japanese restaurant really tasty?

You know, you got to prove things to yourself. You got to prove all the pieces to yourself, and to prove all the pieces to yourself, in the end you're going to have to depend on your own experiences, okay? All right, and then the fourth chapter is easily logical.

Once you prove to yourself that Buddhism is cool, then of course you should teach it to others, help share it, okay, to others. Now what I wanted to point out, and why this is an argument for the last thousand years or so, here's the real order of the chapters, okay? And there are frequently arguments about the order, so K to J didn't tell you that he presented them out of order, okay?

And this is something you're going to have to deal with the rest of your life, Ben, you probably won't be able to sleep, okay? Logic for proving things to yourself, then logic for proving correctness, meaning Buddha and Buddhism, and then the direct perceptions you need to prove chapter one, and that chapter four is in the right place, which is fine. We expected it to be where we could share what we learned with other people, okay?

All right, and I'm happy to say, Dr. Kramer, that one line here.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, ten che gyi lu shes shinto, these, oh, that book is the, right, it's the body, that's the meaning of the we've just spoken, or these words are the meaning?

[Speaker 1]
We have just finished going over the body, the full bodies of, yeah, we just finished the first part of Adam's book, which is sort of an overview of the whole, of the whole book, the structure of the whole book, we finished it. Now, I want you guys to learn a new word. Maybe I will give $50 for it.

Wow. Chapters and verse? This chapter's in verse?

You're close, and I didn't, and you're depriving your daughter of college money, I can't believe it. A verse in between chapters? Yeah, a word gets $50.

I'm sorry to say, she doesn't deserve it. Okay.

[Speaker 3]
I'm sorry, I could barely hear him, what was the answer?

[Speaker 1]
In the, in the, in, in many of the great classics, when they start a new subject, they will give you a poem, and it's just sort of a vacation, okay? Cool. It's sort of a, you know, you get to lay back, and the guy says, let me give you a poem.

You know, you take a rest, you're going to start another section, a different section, and I'm just going to sing a little poem to you, okay? And you say, okay, you put your head on the pillow, and Ketub J says, okay, here's a little poem. Here's a little, parkab means in-between poem, you know, sort of an interlude poem.

I'll give you a little poem to take a break before we start the next section, okay? Here it is. Kat, can you choose somebody?

[Speaker 3]
Yes, I will. Let's see here. I want to hear from, oh, Catherine's probably translating, isn't she?

Nope, she's not. Oh, okay. How about, oh, and Emily.

[Speaker 1]
Yay, Emily.

[Speaker 3]
I can't read it. Sorry.

[Speaker 1]
Ask your husband to whisper in your ear. Okay, how about Gibson? How about Gibson?

[Speaker 3]
Okay, Gibson. Good job, good job. Paxi, nangwa, se, parkab, gyi chik, shuk chik, pao.

[Speaker 1]
Nice, Emily. Yay, great seeds for the future.

[Speaker 3]
Wow, you're great.

[Speaker 1]
And if we want to torture her, we could ask her, which of the six seeds from the mind? Never mind. That sounded really sweet, guys.

It was very sweet. What's tar lam, you guys? Easy.

Path towards to freedom. Yeah, what's dang ji? Honey, right?

Yes, honey. Dang means bee, ji means nectar. I got bad news.

My honeybees flew away. What? Yeah.

They were successful. And they ran out of... They couldn't support themselves with enough flowers.

They went to find more flowers. Anyway, it was a tragedy. Tar lam dang ji.

[Speaker 3]
Oh, no.

[Speaker 1]
What's a jung ne? Place, a point, entry point? Ford?

No, that's a different one.

[Speaker 2]
Where's jung ne?

[Speaker 1]
Oh, jung ne, right, right. Ratnakara. Who's Ratnakara?

Oh, yeah. Jewel, the source. Rinchen jung ne.

It means source. Okay, so what's the source of the sweet honey of the path to freedom? Is the de deng.

The seven classics. The seven great books of dharma. These major classics, okay.

And I'm giving you a gundel. Gundel means a very targeted commentary. Gun means private or very targeted, okay.

Personal. It often means personal. So gundel means, look, I'm giving you a commentary just built for you on the seven books, okay.

And that's like achuke. Fountain of spring? Waterfall.

Man, you guys are hurting me. I thought, what word said? No, it's not a spring.

How about soke?

[Speaker 3]
Water lily.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, lotus.

[Speaker 3]
A lotus?

[Speaker 1]
A lotus, yeah. Yeah, a child of the lake.

[Speaker 3]
Oh, and utkala.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, no, wait, we got problems here, Utkala. I'm sorry. We're gonna, we got some trouble here.

Okay, so chuke means a lotus, right. And they have those, what do you call them inside? The little things that stick up.

Yeah, I got some flowers from the mixed floods today. The stamen? Yeah, stamen.

They don't have stamens, these flowers, but. Oh, there they are. Yeah, anyways, the little thing that sticks up in the middle, okay.

All right. By the way, thank you again for the flowers. It's very beautiful.

Yes, I'm sorry, Utkala. Okay, so are those, we want those parts of the flower to be, to be exposed, okay. That's how flowers have sex, okay.

If the, if the lotus doesn't open, and if the, what do you call the geysers? Pistils? Stamens?

If the pistils and stamens don't, don't show themselves, selwa, you can't make more, more flowers. That's what bees are for, okay. Now, unfortunately, there are some keloms running around.

Sage, people with delusions of being sages. Yeah, people who have the delusion that they understand what these books are about, okay. And they are like dawe'ud, moonlight.

Moonlight? They are like, they are similar to moonlight. Okay, which happens to be the jaw of the Bedmar.

The enemy of the lotus. I had a good friend in Guadalajara. He told me the reason tequila is so good, not that I would drink it, is that it, what do you call photosynthesizes from moonlight?

And there's one.

[Speaker 3]
The agave does?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and yeah, it's supposedly the only plant in the world, according to my source. I didn't even look it up on Google because I thought it was such a good story, I didn't want to ruin it. So anyway.

[Speaker 3]
Are those always together? Padmoy?

[Speaker 1]
No, sometimes it's Bedma. And for some reason, Tibetans sometimes change Bedma to Pedmo. And maybe it's because AS changes the O in certain conditions in Sanskrit.

So when you say Pedmo, just think Pedma, lotus flower. Now, moonlight is an enemy of the lotus flower, but it's a friend of the night-blooming lotus. It's a friend of the moon.

Which is called Utpala. Okay, so the night-blooming lotus, which is the blue lotus, only opens at night to take in the rays of the light of the... And I have the datura growing at home from Diamond Mountain.

It also only opens in the moonlight. Okay. Dakde medra.

But lotuses want sunlight, they don't like moonlight. Whose moonlight? It's the explanations of these other guys.

But my lo... My mind.

[Speaker 3]
My mind.

[Speaker 1]
...is a nim maker.

[Speaker 3]
Day maker. Ooh, sun maker.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it's a day maker.

[Speaker 3]
Day maker.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. And that's the only kind of light you get from my mind. And oftentimes, disciples are compared to lotus flowers.

Okay, so I'm going to shine my light on your minds, and they will flourish. Yay, I just gave you a little vacation. Okay.

Maybe he thought the next chapter is so difficult, you needed a vacation before you started it. Okay, that concludes our little vacation. Poetic vacation.

Okay. He's just pumping us students up for his great explanation. Yeah, and I think it's a beautiful custom.

I think it's a beautiful custom to take... It's like a Zen tea ceremony or something, you know, you stop the study and you go through a very beautiful poetry, and then you get back to your study, which is what we're going to do right now, and Tim seems to want to read. Who would like to correct me?

You choose. Boy.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. How about Joy Chen?

[Speaker 1]
Okay, let's do it. Good choice. She's a dynamite.

Nipa dey tunge par she pala. She jayu gi nam shak. She jay loy nam jak.

Shak? Yes. Shak.

She pa yula jit... ...nam shak tang su. Okay, cool.

Now I want you guys to recall the suffering we went through with the dura. What's dura? Yeah, it's all the subjects from the great pramana books, all the great logic books, split up into little pieces like cookies, and you can eat them easily.

That was a later development. First came these books, then came the generation of Tsongkhapa and his students who commented on the great books from India, and then you had a whole new generation of people who wrote easier textbooks for younger students called dura. Okay, and I think if you guys...

I think you will appreciate, I hope, how this book is anticipating the dura. Okay. He says, look, you know, I decided to split all these four chapters up into Kramer, she jayu gi nam shak.

[Speaker 2]
A presentation of existing things that are seen, essentially.

[Speaker 1]
Which are the objects of perception, okay? I'm going to explain all the things in the universe which are the objects of perception, and then I'm going to explain all the...

[Speaker 2]
All the things which are our mind, I mean, existing things that know those, basically, that know those things.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, first I'll cover all the... First, I'll explain to you all the objects in the universe, and then I'll explain to you all the subjects in the universe, okay?

[Speaker 2]
Right, and of course, the word he uses for object is sort of known things anyway, so using a little...

[Speaker 1]
By the way, where did we have a big debate about that, Sheja?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, probably in the dura. I mean, was it a while ago?

[Speaker 3]
No, there was recently.

[Speaker 2]
Sheja versus Shelja?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, exactly.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, recently, right?

[Speaker 1]
It's going to be a big debate in Stanley's text, I think. Yeah, because we are just covering what topics, Stanley? Chöje, Chöja, Chöje, Chöja, Chöje, Chöjing.

Cutters and cutters. Cutting... Yeah, and then, by the way, Stanley's going to go on, the next subject is going to be estimatable and estimated, like perceivable and that which is perceived, okay?

And then he's going to get into an argument between can you perceive something and do you have to know it if you perceive it? Anyway, so we're going to cover all the objects in the universe. Then we're going to cover all the subjects in the universe.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
And then we're going to talk about how the shepa jukes in the yuls.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, how it is that the mind engages in those objects.

[Speaker 1]
Nice, nice. Okay, so first all the objects in the universe, then all the states of mind in the universe, and then how those states of mind engage in those objects. Yay!

And you guys should be all excited thinking of all of the Dora topics you would put into each of these three, because supposedly all those topics you learned in Adam's Dora are somewhere in these three, okay? All right, Mr. Kramer, can you choose another victim?

[Speaker 2]
Okay, Stanley, checked by Chunzong. Yay! Okay.

Okay, this line, right? Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, okay, good. So the first topic is discussing the objects of perception, okay, things that you can know. And we're going to start out with namdangs.

[Speaker 2]
We're going to enumerate those objects.

[Speaker 1]
Synonyms. Yeah, synonyms. And I think that's where we get into trouble with Sheljah and Shidjah, for example, okay?

And then we're going to have the senes.

[Speaker 2]
Definitions.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, what's the definition of the different types of perception? And what's the yewas?

[Speaker 2]
Divisions of those objects.

[Speaker 1]
Now, Dr. Kramer, in the end, why are we studying this book? What's our goal?

[Speaker 2]
In the end, our goal is to establish that there is a path to freedom and someone who taught it faultlessly.

[Speaker 1]
Nice, beautiful, beautiful. Okay, yeah. Don't forget, you guys, while you're studying all these syllogisms, and should I go to the Japanese restaurant or not, the whole point is, if you were not a Buddhist and someone started to explain Buddhism to you, how could you prove to yourself that it's correct?

You know, a lot of you are accepting Buddhism because you met me or you met some other teacher. But that's not a good reason to accept it, okay? You should accept it because it makes sense.

And that's what we're studying here, okay? How to make sense, okay? All right, here we go.

Who's next, Dr. Kramer?

[Speaker 2]
Oh, next, let's have Utpala Cech Allison.

[Speaker 3]
Nice.

[Speaker 1]
Who can tell me what it means? For sure. Just three parts of a Buddhist book.

Yeah, of a, especially a dialectic book, a today book. What's the three parts? Nice, shenlugakpa means?

Refuting their beliefs. Yep, then? Good, what's that mean?

Presenting our own system. And? Giving them a chance to rebut what we presented.

Yeah, and we're, okay, we have maybe new people on the call. And I have a question for you. In the West, you know, at Princeton University, you go there, you sit down.

I remember 101, Psych 101, it's like McCormick Hall. This is where Einstein gave his first talk. But it's a room for 500 people.

And you just sit there, and they go through ideas. They never, you never get to talk. You just listen.

Then you get an examination, and you know. So that's kind of the Western way of a university. How would you compare that to this three-part system?

That would be only one part of these three. That would be part two, which is rangluk shakpa. That's just presenting what they think about what they believe.

And what's the first part here? The first part is other people come along, get to say some weird stuff that we disagree with. Yeah, you get to hear the wrong ideas before you get to hear the right ideas, right?

It's very interesting. And by the time you prove all the wrong ideas are wrong, you already could write the section on... That's right.

It's a very interesting system of education. And the monasteries are built on it for 2,000 years, 2,500 years. And it's a debate, you know.

First tell me your wrong ideas, and I'll prove them wrong. Then I'll tell you what's correct. And then you get a chance, Word, to come back with your other wrong ideas.

Then you get a chance to attack me. How's that sound? Do you like that?

So I believe somebody should write a book about this amazing 2,500-year university system. I think it's really, really powerful. All right, Word, who's going to read and who's going to chant?

[Speaker 3]
We've got two minutes, Geshe-la.

[Speaker 1]
Two minutes, Word. Thank you, Geshe-la. Okay, who's going to read?

All right, Isabel should read. Who should check Isabel? And I will check her.

Okay, here we go. Isabel, take your time. Go slow.

[Speaker 3]
Wow. Very poor, poor one, which is ka-che-na-re. Good.

Re. Good job, keep going. Yu-dang-she-ba-dong-te-da.

Shi-da.

[Speaker 1]
Ja, J-A, ja.

[Speaker 3]
Ja, ja, okay. She-ja-dong-cha-la. Chick-la?

Chick-la, okay. Yu-dang-ja-ba- Gail-ja. Gail-ja, yeah, yeah, ja.

Dong-mei-chick-chay.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, good.

[Speaker 3]
Ga-ra-ra-ra-ra-ta-ta-dong-vei. Chi. Chi, chi, ja.

Ja, ta, okay, ta-to-pa-ja-ja-va-ta-vei-ti-ro.

[Speaker 1]
Beautiful. Yay, Isabel. Awesome.

Wow, really, really good. Really, really good. We're over time, Genji, so you know.

I know, but we got to finish this sentence. Okay, ka-che-na-re. Somebody says, okay, ka-che-na-re, somebody says, I understand and I agree that you can say that object of perception and something you can know means the same thing.

I agree. If something is an object of perception, it's something you can know. If it's something you can know, it's an object of perception.

I agree with that. But you guys are always running around saying object of perception and object under consideration are the same thing. You say those are also synonyms.

I'll say it again. Everybody, we all agree to be an object of perception and to be something you can know. That means the same thing.

But it doesn't mean the same thing to say object of perception and something you could consider, something under consideration. And then he says, I'll give you an example. If someone believes wrongly that sound is unchanging, you can think about that.

drab dang dzin tokpay shel ja. You can consider the possibility that the sound OM will last forever. You can consider that.

So if anything you consider is also a real thing, then you have a problem. I understand if you say everything you can perceive exists. But I don't like this thing where everything you could consider exists.

I have trouble with that. And that's our first big debate in Adam's new book. And it's not the last one.

We're about to do a thousand of these debates. But already I could say it's extremely powerful and interesting.

[Speaker 2]
Wow. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Everybody says object of perception and object under consideration is equal. And this guy says, and he's not crazy, but you can consider something impossible. So does that exist?

Okay, here we go. We'll find out next time after. So come back after the vacation.

Don't run away.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, don't run away.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you, Michael, so much. That was amazing. Thank you guys for being so brave to stay in these classes.

Oh my gosh. I'm very... Yeah, it's incredible.

And it's hard and it's worth it because we're learning a lot. And thank you so much for the flowers. It means a lot.

Let me know about the other thing I was texting you about. I've got to cook it. We actually, I have to be careful right now.

Everyone's so, you know. Of course. Okay.

So sorry, I'm in a t-shirt. Somebody got paint. Somebody in my house got paint all over me.

His name starts with um.

[Speaker 3]
Have a great holiday, Geshe-la.

[Speaker 1]
I'm gonna have a great holiday. Thank you. Yeah, please give VR love.

And if you need anything, we're here, of course. Yeah, it means a lot to her. And it means a lot to me.

Yeah, okay. We'll see you guys soon. All right, have a great two days off, everybody.

I'll let you all know about what comes of, you know, Geshe Michael's reply about stuff. About what they, you know, what they might need, you know, funeral.