Адам Андраде — Книга 2: Логика. Рассеивая тьму, занятие 16

[Speaker 1]
Suggestion. Tim can be Adam for 20 minutes, and then Gibson can be Adam for 20 minutes. Oh, excellent.

Okay, that's how it's going to work probably. Okay, here we go. Suggestion.

Are you going to do the quiz, Tim? Adam for 20 minutes. No, no quiz.

We are freed from quizzes.

[Speaker 2]
Maybe Tim will translate a line on the fly. Hey, Tim, can you allow me to record, please? Oh, I see, because you're new.

Yeah. Okay, there we go. Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, so Timothy, you're up for the first 20 minutes or so, okay? Then if Gibson's, is Gibson here? I'm going to switch to you.

Okay, here. Oh, I got an idea. How about 10 minutes, Inna?

10 minutes, Tim? No, 15 each. Okay, Tim first.

[Speaker 2]
Inna's asleep, though.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, I'm sorry. Okay, well, we'll do Tim and Gibson. Okay, here we go.

Please read slowly and in a relaxed way, and Venerable Utpala's going to criticize you superbly.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, here we go. Okay. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
And we're going to, we're reading this from Rigpego. This is called The Door of Logic. I believe it is by Dignaga, I'm not sure.

Okay. And it says, NGON SEMS DANG NI RJES SU PAG, these are the two kinds of perception. Ben Kramer's going to tell us.

Yoga Sutra says the same thing.

[Speaker 2]
It does. DGRA BCAG GZHAN NUS MA'I NA'AGA MA, except he didn't mention Agama, because it goes into RJES SU.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, so what does it mean so far? NGON SEMS and RJES PAG.

[Speaker 2]
DGRA BCAG, direct perception, and RJES PAG, indirect perception, which maybe only sometimes is inferential, or maybe means inferential.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you could say inferential. Using logic to perceive something and study your senses. And then if we count those as the two TSEMAs, two correct perceptions, then let's throw in DANG NAM.

What's that mean, Mr. Kramer?

[Speaker 2]
Seems like?

[Speaker 1]
No, but it's an idiom in logic for...

[Speaker 2]
Fallacy or something, right?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, wrong logic, mistaken logic, okay? Mistaken logic. So, so far we kind of have three kinds of logic here, right?

Direct perception, logical perception, and then mistaken for direct, and mistaken for logical. So we have four, okay? Now those four, understanding those four, is for you to understand stuff, okay?

It's so that you can understand the world. DGRA BCAG, so you can figure out the world. Now, after you've figured out the world, you're going to use DRUPAs and SON DZINs for other people.

What's DRUPA? Proofs. Yeah, proofs to like why the Japanese restaurant has good food.

And then SON DZIN means ways of wiping out other people's bad arguments, okay? Similar to how we just ended Nick's text, right? That's pretty awesome, okay?

And then, when you're trying to convince others, and when you're trying to destroy others' ideas, you could also make mistakes at that, right? So we'd better throw in two more. Proving things to others and disproving others' beliefs can also be done mistakenly.

So now we have four kinds of good perceptions. Sorry, two ones for yourself, and then each one has a mistaken version that you shouldn't use on yourself. And then proving things to other people and disproving things to other people, but you could also make mistakes at that, okay?

Cool? Let's go to his commentary. By the way, I looked it up, and I found this in two places, and they were both translated from the Chinese.

Sorry, the first one was translated from the Chinese, and I thought maybe Stanley could help us. In Chinese, the book called Entering into Logic, a book on accurate perception, is called Yen Ming Jie Ching Li Lun. Oh, wow, that sounds like Chinese.

Right. I'll say it again. It's either Yen Ming or Yen Ming Jie Ching Li Lun.

And it's supposed to be a book about logic or something like that. By who, Geshe-la? I don't know.

Let me see. I think it's Ignaga, but I'm not sure. Maybe Word can look it up for me.

It's number 4208. You can look it up in the Tohoku catalog. I'll tell you something interesting.

In both versions found in the Tengyur, these four lines are reversed. In both versions from the ancient India, the last two lines come first, and the first two lines come after that, which is kind of weird. It means prove and disprove stuff to other people, and then after that, try to see it for yourself.

The Tibetans reversed it. The Chinese says it the opposite way, and the Sanskrit says it the opposite way, in another book.

[Speaker 2]
Geshe-la, both Yi Jing and Xuanzang translated this book. It's by Ignaga, Master Ignaga.

[Speaker 1]
Wow, cool. Yi Jing is from Tongchao also?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, he's on the Ocean Silk Road.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and he got his education in Indonesia.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, he traveled by the ship.

[Speaker 1]
There's an interesting story. He ran out of paper, so he went back to Guangzhou to get paper in the 8th century.

[Speaker 2]
Those are expensive. Paper is expensive. They didn't have any in the hotel?

[Speaker 1]
They didn't have any in the hotel.

[Speaker 2]
They don't have an Apple store nearby.

[Speaker 1]
According to Yi Jing, the great Buddhist, he said, if you want to go to India and study Buddhism, go to Indonesia first, because that's the best place to get a start. That's where the greatest scholars are. That's interesting for Sugeng's tradition and Shinten.

Okay, anyway, here we go. Tim, let's go. Dr. Kramer wants to criticize you. Yay!

[Speaker 2]
How would you pronounce those differently?

[Speaker 1]
Ask Dr. Kramer.

[Speaker 2]
Don't use your tongue. Don't let your tongue touch anything in the front of your mouth.

[Speaker 1]
I think, Tim, learn it from your cat. You just look like a cat.

[Speaker 2]
How would I do them differently? NGES MED GZHAN BYAS SU BRTZUN PA'I THABS NYID SO Oh, Dr. Kramer?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you got it. NGES MED GZHAN BYAS SU BRTZUN PA'I THABS NYID SO Yeah, good. Okay, BYAS SU BRTZUN PA'I Now, here's one of the most important sentences in these two...

We're going to get an overdose of logic for the next 10 years, because two of our team members are doing logic books. They're not going to cross over too much, because Adam's book is more... There's seven books on logic, and Ben's book is only the great classic on logic.

So anyway, here we go. Rang, one of the first jobs that a Buddhist has to do in their life is to confirm that Dönpa and the Dönpa are real.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, wow. The teacher and the teachings.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Is Buddha real? Does the Buddha really exist, and is there such a thing?

And, is their Dönpa, is their teaching exist? Is it kyun me? Is it really flawless?

And we're going to have to use TSE MA. TSE MA is a THABS THEN NGES PA DRAG. What's that mean?

[Speaker 2]
A method for reaching certainty in those things.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, so the purpose of Buddhist logic is to try to confirm whether or not Buddhism is correct, and whether or not the Buddha is real. It's very interesting. So don't forget that for the next 20 years.

The purpose of logic is to establish whether or not Buddhism is worth following, and whether the Buddha is worth listening to. NGES NAS means after you've confirmed that for yourself, you want to RJES SU BRDZIN PA GZHAN. What's that mean?

[Speaker 2]
RJES SU BRDZIN PA GZHAN. Follow it?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you want to take others after you. You want to lead others. RJES SU BRDZIN means you want to take them after you.

It means you want to lead other people. THABS NGES SO. Then logic is going to help you do that, because you're going to have to know how to prove stuff to other people.

And that's the best kind of teacher, is someone who can prove stuff to other people logically, not out of faith and not out of superstition. And superstition destroyed Buddhism up to this date. Superstition from, I don't know, starting around, I don't know, call it 500 years ago, it destroyed Buddhism in the world.

This thing about go to temple and light incense and all this stuff, it destroyed Buddhism. That's why there's no Buddhism in this world. Buddhism is destroyed.

You can say Burmese are Buddhist, or you can say Sri Lankans, they're not really. Buddhism is gone in this world, and it's because it got superstitious. All right.

Tim, keep going. Sugeng, nah, Sugeng's tired. He's been working hard.

Gibson! No wait, Gibson has to be the Adam later. Ali, can you criticize him?

Here we go. Tim, Damboni.

[Speaker 2]
There we go. Let's turn on the microphone. Damboni, Good, okay.

[Speaker 1]
So the first goal of us deciding whether or not the Buddha and Buddhism are correct, we're going to have two tools to use. What are they? Nguyen Sum and Je Pak.

[Speaker 2]
Direct perception and deduction.

[Speaker 1]
Good. Why do you need direct perception to establish the Buddha is correct? I mean, logic is okay, but why direct perception?

[Speaker 2]
Are you asking a question?

[Speaker 1]
I'm asking you, yeah. But there's a joke. The question is a joke, if you get it.

[Speaker 2]
I don't think I'm going to get the joke right now. Direct perception of?

[Speaker 1]
If you didn't have direct perception, I couldn't ask you the question. Okay, okay, okay. Anyway, yeah.

You're going to need your ears and your eyes to direct perception to study. And then Je Suk Pak means, based on the study you do, you're going to have to decide for yourself whether Buddhism and Buddha is correct or not, okay? Then, RANG NYID KYIS JI LTAR BRTEN NA PHAGS PA LTAR BRTEN NA PHAGS PA means, what you decide is correct, okay?

According to how you, yourself, decide things are correct. DON LA GNAS MI Whether or not your decisions are correct. DON LA means in actuality, here.

It means, DON LA GNAS means, do they fit the real case or not, okay? That's going to depend on DON LA SPAS BYED KYI LO It depends on your mental state. The mental state that you use to establish the Buddha is correct or not is going to decide whether your decisions are correct or mistaken, okay?

So, now we get down to, is your law YANG DAG or not, okay? Is your thinking clear or not? And the accuracy of your decisions is going to RAG LAS PA, is going to depend on how clear is your thinking or not, okay?

All right. I think we're still on Tim. We're almost ready for you, Gibson.

Hang in there. Okay, here we go. De La, Tim.

[Speaker 2]
Who's correcting me?

[Speaker 1]
I think Seiji offered to correct you. By the way, I got a video of Maitri saying mama today, but he didn't say grandpa yet.

[Speaker 2]
All right.

[Speaker 1]
De La, There's a very, very, very famous basic principle of using logic. Extremely basic, okay? Why are there two forms of confirming reality?

Why do we need direct perception? And why do we need logic? It's because there's two kinds of stuff in the world.

GOK GYUR and NGON GYUR. What's that mean? Evident and hidden.

Good, nice, perfect, okay? So for the GOK GYUR stuff, for the hidden stuff, like the laws of karma, you're going to need BYED PA.

[Speaker 2]
You're going to need the deduction.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you're going to need logic, and that's going to have to involve a state of mind which is unmistaken. KHYON MED. NGES BYED here means in order to ascertain hidden things, you're going to need a good, unbroken state of mind which is using logic, clear thinking, okay?

Now, if the objects are NGON GYUR...

[Speaker 2]
Evident, obvious.

[Speaker 1]
Then you're still going to need an unmistaken state of mind to confirm it, but it's going to be NGON TSUM TSEM MA.

[Speaker 2]
A direct perception.

[Speaker 1]
And that's why the verse by Dignaga mentions NGON and JE.

[Speaker 2]
Direct and deduction.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, good, okay? That's why he mentions two. Now, anticipatory translation.

He just explained the first line in the verse here. Direct perception and deduction. Where do you think the commentary is going next?

[Speaker 2]
The next verse would be great. Probably the next verse. No, the next line.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, what's the next line about? The ways that you can screw that up. Good, yeah.

So we're expecting, you know, if you're a translator, you're kind of expecting a few sentences about screwed-up logic and screwed-up direct perception. Okay, let's see if Geshe-la is right.

[Speaker 2]
It's Gibson's turn.

[Speaker 1]
No, you got two more minutes. Don't try to throw the ball to Taiwan. Okay, here we go.

One more sentence, Tim, and I'll let you go. Who's checking me? Seiji was so quiet.

I don't know. Let's try. Okay.

Good.

[Speaker 2]
Good.

[Speaker 1]
If you... je su drang means if you follow after other states of mind, then there's two kinds of correct perception. Okay, direct and indirect.

Then you are going to be lua.

[Speaker 2]
Mistaken.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you're going to be deceived, literally, okay? You're going to be deceived. And then, in order to act as a component, yenlak means here component, of your study, where we are trying to cut off gosa.

Who knows gosa?

[Speaker 3]
The position? No, the argument? The position?

[Speaker 2]
Where you made your mistake? Where you went wrong?

[Speaker 1]
You could say that. Who said that? Chinzo?

[Speaker 2]
Utpala.

[Speaker 1]
Utpala, nice. And gosa also has the connotation of a blunder, okay? So, if you don't want to make a blunder in the path, you better study tar nang.

Incorrect perception. You better study false logic and mistaken direct perception. You better understand...

It's very interesting. What he's trying to do is defend the study of logical mistakes. Okay?

Logic is good. Direct, healthy perceptions are good, but you better understand what can screw up your logic, and you better understand what can screw up your perceptions. Okay?

What can mess you up. So, therefore, if we divide the verse into the benefit of you, followed by the benefit for others, how many parts are in the benefit to you?

[Speaker 2]
Four.

[Speaker 1]
Four. Good. Four parts.

Too good, too bad. Direct, indirect, good. Direct, indirect, mistaken.

Yay! Now Gibson is ready to start, and Chundram is ready to criticize him. Yay!

From one island to another. Good. Nice.

Then, after you have nge, after you have confirmed everything for yourself, what confirmed what? Confirmed what?

[Speaker 2]
That the Buddha's teachings are unmistaken.

[Speaker 1]
Good. Buddha and the Buddha's teachings are unmistaken. So, after you confirm it to yourself, you want the others to don't.

[Speaker 2]
You want to bring that realization. Others to realize.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you want to raise that realization in others. And as a component, yenlak, as a component in that goal, we're going to have chi ma shi. Who can tell me?

[Speaker 2]
The outer four.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. This means later four. The later four, okay?

So the first four were for you to figure out the Buddha is good. And the second set of four is to help others to decide the same thing. And the latter four, the second four, which were not the latter four in the original, we can also divide into two good ones and two bad ones.

Yenlak means two good ones. And then tar nang. What are the two for other people?

Do you guys remember?

[Speaker 2]
Same.

[Speaker 1]
Direct and indirect perception is for you.

[Speaker 2]
Drup and sun jenpa.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, what's that? Sorry, sun jen and drup. Bad arguments and some proofs.

[Speaker 2]
I'm sorry.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I'm sorry. You're correct. Yeah, where was that?

Let's go back there. Oh, yeah, drup and sun jenpa. Proofs that you use for other people.

And then, you know, attacks that are supposed to help other people. Okay? And you can make mistakes in trying to help other people.

And you can make mistakes in trying to prove things that other people are wrong. And so we better study the classical mistakes that you can make. Okay?

And that's why we have the second set of four. Okay? Two good, two bad.

Yay, Gibson, let's keep going. Allison, oh, she's so excited. She wants to check you.

I can see it.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Nice. Nice pronunciation. The best thing you said was tok.

You pronounced it perfectly. It's not an English D. You said tok, and I appreciate it.

Yay! You didn't say dok. And you didn't say dog.

Okay. Here we go. ta chi du dzinpay lok tok.

Now, sometimes other people have lok tok. What's that? Wrong idea?

Wrong idea. Right? Wrong idea.

This is Stanley Stoke, okay? He's going to be famous forever for tok. Here's a sixth kind of tok.

Fifth one, sorry. So, some people are going to have a wrong idea. Why does he say ta chi du dzinpa?

Because they're sure what they think. Ta chi du dzin. They only have one opinion.

Okay? They have one clear position that they took. It's wrong, but to them it's clear.

Okay? They decided a certain position. It's wrong, but they decided that's what they think.

Okay? Ta chi du dzin. Lok tok.

Okay? And that's a kind of bell. Who can tell me?

A way of spreading?

[Speaker 2]
Kind of glory.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it's glory. I mean, there's sort of a... There's some kind of...

I don't know. We had a president like that. He's so wrong that he looked glorious in his wrongness.

I don't know. Okay. So, bell means...

Bell means the dignity of this position, this wrong position. We want to chom. Go ahead.

Yeah, we want to destroy the power of their wrong idea. And it's a wrong idea where they believe they are right. We want to...

Bell chompa means we want to knock them down a notch. In English we say... Their wrong idea is like very powerful.

And we want to punch it in the head. And that's why we need sen jin.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, we have to rely on refutations.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, we have to prove they're wrong. Sen jin... Where did sen jin come in the Four Powers?

[Speaker 2]
It's the... The third one? It's exciting not to do it again.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I think it is. Yeah. And we said it also means to rape a woman.

Okay? It's a terrible, terrible word. It's a very bad word.

But it's used in logic when you want to rape somebody else's bad idea. Okay? You want to just destroy it.

Okay? Shred it, we say in English, right? You want to tear it up.

Okay? That's called sen jin.

[Speaker 2]
All right?

[Speaker 1]
And then, what if they don't hold one position? What if they hold two positions and they have tetsum?

[Speaker 2]
Oh, no. Yeah, they have doubts between which...

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, they're like being... In English, we say wishy-washy. Oh, maybe it's like that.

But maybe it's like that, you know? And they have two wrong ideas, okay? The first guys are like Bell, right?

They're like... They're up there like some big boxer that's about to fall down. But the second guys are like, I don't know.

I think maybe this is right. Or maybe that's right. I don't know.

So, people, if you want to clear away their tetsum, you better have a dug ngak. Yeah, you better come up with a proof for them. Okay?

So, for people who are definitely mistaken, and they're sure they're right, you need to know how to destroy their feeling. But if they're confused and they don't know what's right, then you better have a proof. Dug ngak.

Okay? Prove something. Okay?

Tsung shing. Now, we got two. How many more do we need here?

Two more. We need two more. Because we have to know the traps for destroying other people's opinions, and the traps for proving our own opinion.

Okay? We have to know the traps. We have to know bad logic.

We have to know what's bad logic, so we can go sa chu. Who can tell me?

[Speaker 2]
That's a potential mistake.

[Speaker 1]
Good, nice translation. Yeah, potential blunders. We want to avoid potential blunders.

We want to cut blunders. So, we better study tar nang. Tar nang, you got to read it together.

One word. Tar nang. Tar nang.

Mistaken. Mistaken. Okay?

Tar nang. All right. By the way, tar nang sometimes comes as two separate words.

It appears as though. But in logic, these two words come together. Tar nang.

It means bad logic. Stanley, it's the logic your wife always gives you. You know, do you understand?

Okay, all right. I'm just teaching you what you need to know. I was interested in looking up sunjung in the Sanskrit.

It's all got douche in it anyway. That's pretty predictable. All right, let's go to...

I was trying to see if there was any joke here in the Sanskrit, and I decided there's not, okay. Okay, Gibson's reading, and Aldo? You wanna criticize him?

Are you there? Aldo's too nice to criticize people. Are you there, Aldo?

He might be translating.

[Speaker 2]
Is he translating?

[Speaker 1]
Oh, is he translating?

[Speaker 2]
He's not.

[Speaker 1]
Yes? No? Nope.

Not translating. Oh, okay, word. We didn't do word.

A word, really? Really? Yeah.

Let's go, Gibson. Go slow.

[Speaker 2]
DE NA, TSE MA'I BSTAN GYUR GYI LUS YONG ZHUG RDZOGS PA NI LAS YUL GSUNG THUB GDUG PA YIN TE DBANG GSUM GYI LAS YUL RANG THUN BYAS PAR GYI LAS YUL GZHAN DUN BYAS PAR GYI LAS YUL Good, Liyue.

[Speaker 1]
Nice dip down. There's a real dip down. DE NA, TSE MA'I BSTAN GYUR.

Therefore, TSE MA'I BSTAN GYUR. What's that?

[Speaker 2]
It could be one of the commentaries on the book.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, Pramanavarttika. This is Master Dharmakirti's masterpiece, okay? The Lus Yungzhug RDzogpa, the entire body of his book, has Lus Sung.

[Speaker 2]
Three chapters. Three chapters.

[Speaker 1]
Well, not really, but we're going to see about it. We seem to do. It can be, you could summarize the whole famous book by Dharmakirti in three chapters.

First chapter is what, Gibson?

[Speaker 2]
It's the direct perception.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, the chapter on correct direct perception, okay? And then the chapter on Jeypok, deductive.

[Speaker 2]
Our own meaning?

[Speaker 1]
RANG BDUN here means for yourself. To help yourself. No, to help you personally perceive things.

And then we're going to get another chapter on...

[Speaker 2]
Deductive to benefit the other.

[Speaker 1]
Nice, perfect translation. Yay! Okay, wait.

Word, can you check him on this next paragraph? Okay, here we go.

[Speaker 2]
O NANG KUN LAS DUG ZHUG LAS YUG THUG GSUM PA JI LTAR YIN RJE NA PAS DAG FA DANG ZHAO BA CHAG DAG PA NI RANG DUN BYAS PA GYIS LAS YUG DU LA DAG PHYIR DAG PA ZHUNG DUN BYAS PA GYIS LAS YUG DU GZO Okay, good.

[Speaker 1]
So then, what's the TSE MA RDO? Anybody?

[Speaker 2]
Ignata's book.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Okay, KUN LAS DUG PA means TSE MA KUN LAS DUG PA All the knowledge of correct perception in one companion. It has six chapters.

Then somebody says, well, why did Dignaga use six chapters? Okay, you said all of Dharmakirti's ideas are summarized in three. By the way, it's really four, but we're going to find out later.

And then, but why did Dignaga use six? What's that all about? JI LTAR YIN, what's that all about?

Well, there's an examination. DAG PA means a review or an examination of a certain topic. Of PE.

What's PE mean? Metaphors?

[Speaker 2]
Oh, examples?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, DUN PA'I YANG DAG. Say DUN PA'I YANG DAG.

[Speaker 2]
Correct examples.

[Speaker 1]
$100 for the one that's in the proof of sound is impermanent. Oh. But you got to give me the whole proof.

You got to give me the whole proof.

[Speaker 2]
Oh. Consider sound. Let's take sound.

[Speaker 3]
OK, get it here. Consider sound. It's impermanent.

[Speaker 2]
For people.

[Speaker 3]
Because it's stopped, like OM.

[Speaker 1]
It stopped. OM is the chitin.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, let's take OM. It's made. It's sound.

OM CHUD CHEN MI THAG PAS CHE BA'I PHYIR. Is it like? Oh wait.

OM CHUD CHEN MI THAG PAS CHE BA'I PHYIR.

[Speaker 1]
Then what's the perna?

[Speaker 2]
Perna. OM is the perna.

[Speaker 1]
Is it? I'm sorry.

[Speaker 2]
OM CHUD CHEN MI THAG PAS CHE BA'I PHYIR. PERNA.

[Speaker 1]
OM. Oh, you're right. OM is what they're trying to prove.

I say the hundred dollars. It's like a picture, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
I don't remember that one.

[Speaker 1]
That's right, yeah, I remember. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Where is it?

[Speaker 1]
It's everywhere, okay?

[Speaker 2]
Oh, okay.

[Speaker 1]
It's probably in Adam's other text. But it's the one that they teach kids first, okay. De dapa means let's, dapa just means a look at something, okay?

It's a discussion of correct, it's a discussion of correct examples, okay? Selwa, okay, dapa, then there's a discussion. By the way, I put the proper order of the chapters here.

Chapter four is the chapter on examples and then I wouldn't think it would come first. Selwa means, Oh, it's like a tell, right?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, isn't it? Yeah. Isn't it the Prasangika version of a?

[Speaker 1]
It's the second element in a tell, yeah. Are you telling me? Okay.

Yeah. Okay. Bumpa che chen, dapa tau, dra dapa yinpe chen, okay?

Bumpa che chen, dapa yinpe tau, dra dapa om dapa yinpe chen, okay? Oh, well, let's take a coffee cup. I guess it's impermanent, right?

Sorry, I guess it never changes because om never changes, okay? Got it? That would be a...

[Speaker 2]
It's the absurdity.

[Speaker 1]
It's the absurd part of an absurdity. Yeah, it's the second part. Oh, so I guess it's unchanging, right?

That's called selwa, okay? That element of a telngir is called selwa. So selwa is one of the three parts of a telngir, okay?

All right. Then there's a chapter on rang dun je bak. What's that mean, Gibson?

[Speaker 2]
Benefit for yourself by the deductive perception.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, a chapter, a short chapter about using logic to confirm the Buddha for yourself, okay? And then there's dak che, an examination of dak che, which I'm going to explain later, today. And then, Gibson, what is shen dun je bak?

[Speaker 2]
Using logic to benefit others.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, good, good, okay. Now I want to talk, I want to give you dak che. Sorry.

What is a dak che, okay? What's a dak che? And here it is.

Gibson, please read this line here.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. dak che shen dun da nang de leng ching chi lokpa.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, let's translate this. It's not easy. What's da nang mean, you guys?

We had it.

[Speaker 2]
Mistaken logic.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah. And now a sun jin da nang.

[Speaker 2]
Mistaken mutation.

[Speaker 1]
Good. You're trying to prove somebody else is wrong, and you make a mistake doing that, okay? That's called a dak che, okay?

A mistaken sun jin is called a dak che. And then he clarifies it. He says a mistaken response to somebody else's logic, okay?

A mistaken response to somebody else is called a dak che, okay? And then I thought you'd like to read this definition, which is more, it's more instructive, okay? Let's go, Gibson.

And who's checking? I got to find some victims here. Yi Yi, you want to check in?

Oh, Aisha, are you there? Tana Tong?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Well, purple haze is all over the world. We have two speakers, that's why, sorry. Okay, so one of you three guys correct Gibson.

Gibson, go.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Dak che ben ba, ge wa ju ba ang, jin ji lo ben ba, bi er na, yu mi dang je ki cha je gu na, ni chang di je mi gu ba kang yin che ba da bu, ji ma kya be chu te je cha la ma kya ba.

[Speaker 1]
Keep going, I'm sorry, it goes after the number here.

[Speaker 2]
che be chu ki, gyel way ju ba'o.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, I have to admit, I don't know what this definition is talking about. Let's see here. Let's figure it out.

Let's figure it out. I'll say dak che pen ba. Pen ba means you say something, but the implication is mistaken, okay?

Pen ba means you make a statement, but by the way, it says something wrong. So, gyel way ju ba means you say something contradictory, or you say something which has mistaken implications. jin ji lo kyi pen ba.

Then he gives us an example, which is what I was hoping for. Hey, word, I need your help. Are you there?

Yes. Can you look up chel jel? I don't know what this means.

Okay. Chel jel, okay. It sounds like something you might put in your hair, right?

Chel jel? Okay. All right, now they're going to give an example of this logical mistake, okay?

And somebody says, you'll meet Tom Jay. I'm stalling for time, word. What's that mean, you guys?

[Speaker 2]
All the, what?

[Speaker 1]
Not all the- All the people in our- Country. Yeah, all Americans.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, all the humans, okay.

[Speaker 1]
All Americans should be doing chel jel.

[Speaker 2]
Chel jel.

[Speaker 1]
Taxes.

[Speaker 2]
Taxes.

[Speaker 1]
Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, should pay taxes, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, right. Okay, I'm sorry. That's exactly what it means.

Did word look it up?

[Speaker 3]
Yes, Ken, it's in the chat, but yeah, it just, yeah, it means a tax or some kind of payment.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, good, yeah. Everyone should pay their taxes, okay? Somebody says, everyone should pay their taxes.

And, okay, everyone should pay their taxes, and this family doesn't have to, okay? And then somebody says, well, what's that all about, you know? If everybody has to pay their taxes, why does this particular person doesn't have to pay their tax, okay?

And then somebody says, well, look, chi la kyepay tsul, just because something applies to everybody doesn't mean it applies to every single person.

[Speaker 2]
Ouch.

[Speaker 1]
And that's a tacture, yay! Okay.

[Speaker 2]
It's like- Well, is it because of the chi chedrak there? Are they making a little joke?

[Speaker 1]
No, it's not that kind of joke. Oh, okay. It's like, look, chi la kyepay means this rule applies to all Americans.

Chedak la ma kyepay, and it doesn't apply to one American, okay? And this kind of examination of things, okay, this kind of thinking, this kind of critical thinking, is stating a gyelwa.

[Speaker 2]
That's a dictation.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, so again, let's review what's a dhakcha, because it's one of the six chapters, and why the six chapters came up was somebody said, if you can get all the important ideas into three chapters, then why did Vijnana have six chapters? And then we say, well, what did he add? He added dhakcha.

What's dhakcha? It's a contradiction. What kind of contradiction?

You say something is a rule, and then you say it doesn't apply to everybody, which contradicts the idea of a rule, okay? Got it? You guys okay?

It's very quiet.

[Speaker 2]
I mean, it's a sunjambetarna.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah, it's very similar to that, yeah. Okay, now, if you're guessing Michael, you'd like to make sure there's six here, and there's not. Okay.

One, two, three, four, five. He did not put the munsum ryu, okay? What's that mean, Gibson?

Munsum ryu.

[Speaker 2]
Directly.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, he didn't mention the chapter on direct perception. I guess he thought it wasn't so interesting. Okay, who's he, by the way?

Who forgot to list the first one?

[Speaker 2]
Kedrupje?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, Kedrupje, yeah. Now, why did he put them in this order is another interesting question, because here's the classical order of this book, okay? I went and checked the chapters, okay?

First, there's a chapter on... Okay, let's read this, Gibson.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. munsum kyi le yu Good, lyu.

[Speaker 1]
rang tun kyi Say the two vowels together very fast. Lyu, lyu. Lyu.

Okay, good.

[Speaker 2]
rang tun kyi jesu bakpay lyu Good. shen kyi dun kyi jesu bakpay lyu Nice. pey tang pey da nang wa dakpay lyu Nice.

shen shel dakpay lyu Good. dak chey dakpay lyu Okay, nice.

[Speaker 1]
Those are the real six chapters, okay? He doesn't report them quite that way. Let's look at the names of the real chapters, okay?

munsum kyi le yu is easy, right? What's that mean, Gibson? munsum kyi le yu You're muted.

[Speaker 2]
Chapter of direct reception.

[Speaker 1]
Good. Yeah, and what's the second chapter here?

[Speaker 2]
rang tun kyi jesu bakpay lyu Through the deductive for benefit of your own.

[Speaker 1]
Good. And number three?

[Speaker 2]
shen dun jang The deductive for the benefit of other.

[Speaker 1]
Good. Then there's an examination, the chapter, which is an examination of pey and pey da nang. Oh.

[Speaker 2]
Examples and bad examples.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, good. Yeah. The chapter called an examination of examples and bad examples.

By the way, what famous book uses this takpay over and over for all the chapters? Those mom-remembers.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, it's the Nagarjuna.

[Speaker 1]
Yay, Tim. He was awake while we filmed it. Yeah.

Every single chapter of Nagarjuna's wisdom is called an examination of something. Okay. All right.

Okay, here we go. You think you're finished, Gibson, but you're not. You got two difficult things left.

shen sel kapay lyu What is shen sel?

[Speaker 2]
To clear for other.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and this is a difficult idea. Shen sel means, for example, I like to say, one example, okay, is I remember going to the train station in Munich or something and I was looking for somebody. And it's a process of what?

[Speaker 2]
Okay, to eliminate, eliminate who is not.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, that's called shen sel, okay? And it's typically drama yinpa ley lopar. Drama yinpa ley lopar, okay?

The opposite of all. The opposite of everything that's not. Yeah, the opposite of everything that's not sound is sound.

That's one meaning of shen sel, okay? And it's a big idea because there was a school called Jom Nangbas in Tibet who thought that was emptiness. And that got very popular, yeah.

To think that something is the opposite of everything it's not, is emptiness. They thought that. Okay, and then what's the last one, Gibson?

And I'll let you go.

[Speaker 2]
The mistake, reputation.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. What are we going to call this, you guys? dak che, dak means the back of your head.

Cut the back of your head, I don't know. It's the lower part of the back of your head. Okay.

I don't know. Ablongana? Yeah, I don't know what we're going to call that.

I guess it's like the idea of hitting yourself in the back of your head. You say everyone should pay a tax and then you say, accept this guy, you know. Then you kind of, what do you call it?

What do you call it when you hurt yourself? Hmm. Flagellation?

Is that a foot?

[Speaker 2]
Fallacy.

[Speaker 1]
We call it the dog. Kicking yourself, what's it called? Oh, shooting yourself in the foot.

Yeah, shooting yourself in the foot.

[Speaker 2]
Christina wrote that and I thought at the same time.

[Speaker 1]
That's exactly right, dak che. Shooting yourself in the foot. All right, we ran out of time, I think, Nick.

We're out of time, yeah. Okay, I'm going to- Yay, Tim. Yay, you guys did a good job.

Adam, I hope you start feeling better. I think you should send Gibson $6 or maybe even seven. Tim also, will covering for you today.

I would like to, everyone should write Arena and thank her for saving my rear end today. And I bet Apple's going to deliver this cord in two minutes from now.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, I just got the text that said, hey, your delivery is arriving, be ready.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, thanks a lot. Be ready. Hey, do you think it would be a bad deed if I strangled the deliver guy with the cord?

[Speaker 2]
Yes. She's been really polite in texting me.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, all right, I'll let it go. It's probably some boss over there. All right, but if you guys want to write Arena and thank her, that's not a short trip.

That's quite a long trip from where they live. So thank you guys. All right, and thank you for your prayers for Bea, okay?

[Speaker 2]
Thank you, thanks. Thanks.

[Speaker 1]
See you guys tomorrow morning. I'll be in the pool, and I'm going to try to figure out a way if that cord is really waterproof or not. We're going to find out.

If you have the iPhone 12, that'll work. Okay, all right, I'm on it. Thank you guys.

See you tomorrow. Thank you, Fishla. Have a good day.